Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Troll Control on March 08, 2006, 12:58:00 PM
-
Interesting tidbits...
HLA does not provide health insurance to its employees. They have to buy it, and HLA raised the rates recently.
HLA charges employees for "consumables" like aspirin ($.50 a piece!). Shit, if you don't get a headache working there, you're not human. And then they CHARGE you for relief. Oy vey.
Construction projects to benefit residents linger unfinished while funds are made available to complete Len and Ken's "house on the hill."
Production of the newsletter has been cut due to "rising costs."
Horse program = no program. No horses, no barns, no nothing but a patch of dirt and an "equine therapist" (I'm still wondering if this is a therapist that works with kids and horses or if they actually hired a horse as a therapist and pay in oats instead of dollars).
Anybody else have any tidbits? Any petty expenses passed on to the consumer? Any requests for donations/gifts?
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-03-08 10:01 ]
-
Interesting coincidence. The Whit is rumored to be on it's last leg these days. I wonder if they've sold each other on their respective lines of bullshit? So the Suds are planning to jump from Nephi to Dahlonega just in time! This could be like tossing copper shavings on the bon fire, eh?
Anybody for some pop corn?
so long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?
--stephen Hawking, English scientist
-
cost of a lands end shirt
-
Was anybody at the recent Parent Seminar?
How was the pizza? Apparently, pizza is what you get when the caterer refuses to work the event due to unpaid bills.
I guess the catering company has cut back its services to the bare minimum - feeding the kids. No more frills for the parents or management it seems.
-
the pizza was probably better.
-
Yes Im sure the parents who are paying 7000 a month would agree.
-
Yeah, the Suds have the Whitmore "mansion" up for sale, along with their herd of horses. LUCKY HORSES, huh? And they are trying to sell their planes too. Keeping the internet busy with all those "for sale ads."
Seems the Suds have moved their "school" that supposedly only has 3 students now to another location in Nephi that isn't zoned or licensed for a school. So the Suds appear to be in violation of City Ordinances, AGAIN.
One would think that with a criminal trial pending and a civil case pending, these fine folks would try to not annoy and bring such attention to themselves, huh?
Understand they're down in Mexico soaking up the sun. Must be nice.
-
compared to the "cat food in pastry" ( not saying that it was cat food, but it wasn't like any beef wellington that I ever had)that was supposed to be beef wellington the pizza is an improvment.
-
I see that the food isn't particularly good. What does that say about the kids' daily meals if the special event meals are so bad?
Anyway, I think the point is that this place isn't even paying their food service bills. Doesn't that seem like it should be one of the FIRST things paid?
How do you feel about the possibility of servies being terminated in their entirety? What about the general issue of a place that charges $7k/mo, but doesn't pay its own bills?
-
freezer burned peanutbutter was a staple of life there
-
How is it known that they are not paying
the catering bills?
-
On 2006-03-10 08:46:00, juniper2 wrote:
"How is it known that they are not paying
the catering bills?"
I can't say for a fact what the amount is, but I've heard $300,000.00 kicked around.
The FS vendor apparently refused to cater the last parent seminar and an employee was forced to run out for pizzas.
-
Wow, just when you thought being an HLA employee sucked as bad as it could, they drop this on you...
So, now employees have had their vacation time cut by a week. Harsh.
How far are they willing to go to cut the overhead? How are they going to fill the vacancies with these kinds of benefit reductions happening constantly?
Makes ya wonder.
-
Is that a death rattle I hear?
-
Anybody else get let go since I checked last?
-
no one else will be let go
until the heat calms down
at least 15 staff are actively job searching
-
Their employees are going backwards this year while the top man gets fat. Nice morale booster.
No wonder these people get so easily upset. The job already sucks and it keeps getting worse.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-03-31 14:14 ]
-
HLA's bills are backing up. I heard today that the garbage company has refused to pick up - too much owed in arrears. Sounds very much like the catering company.
How is this going to go over when the Ed Cons visit the campus and get pizza served next to a stinking pile of trash? I hope they can see the light at that point.
You could call the boss to ask some questions, but his phone got disconnected.
The wheels are coming off.
-
Oh I'm sure they'll just hide the garbage away with all the other children they prefer the ed cons just not see.
-
or they'll get the kids on restrictions to carry giant bags of trash on their backs, and walk to the dump since the bus driver is gone
-
Or they could require the employees to take one bag each home with them every day.
Makes sense I mean they have to wade in bullshit at work...why not at home?
-
I heard that HLA is completely full...How can they not be able to pay these bills??Are they greasing too many palms or what...?[ This Message was edited by: juniper2 on 2006-04-14 14:08 ]
-
Its not that they cant Juni...its just they dont like to.
-
gee, you are up late,ratherearly this morning..Has HLA asked you to volunteer AM pick-up??
-
Recent cost-cutting (staff-shafting) measures at HLA:
1. Unpaid overtime. Any staff members who recently took vacation and benefit cuts like to comment on why you're not receiving your OT on time? Ever hear the excuse "We can't cut checks mid-week"?
2. Elimination of overtime. Who has been told that they will no longer receive OT, but instead they'll get straight time? As an aside, any hourly or non-managerial staff are required by federal law to receive time-and-a-half for any hours worked over 40 per week. Demand to be paid, people.
How this place retains any staff with these policies is beyond all reason. I guess they just prey on the naivety of those pie-eyed new grads looking to help kids. "We must all sacrifice for the good of the children." :roll:
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-04-17 05:11 ]
-
What is Buccellato sacrificing?
-
What is Buccellato sacrificing?
-
those at the top rarely feel any need to sacrifice
-
Maybe the incessant rolling has abated because they didn't pay their internet service provider?
Just a thought.
Besides, who wants to put in overtime trolling when they won't get paid for the O/T?
-
HLA has lost yet another psychiatrist. Dr. Reddick walked out.
With no psychiatrist on board, who is dealing with kids' meds? Testing? Therapy?
Parents, please be aware that your kid is NOT being monitored by a psychiatrist. This is dangerous to say the least.
-
Reportedly HLA's food service vendor walked off the job this week due to unpaid bills.
Who's feeding your kids, parents? What are they being fed???
Be sure to call and ask these important questions.
-
Anybody care to comment on the physical plant?
Can anyone explain why the septic system is broken and the management refuses to get it fixed, but has money and time for the boss' new office?
I always knew they were full of shit, but not in the literal sense. That's all changed now.
-
Septic system? What septic system? Something doesnt make sense to me on this particular story Steve. Each building has a septic TANK. There is no septic system. It is not tied into a public sewer system nor does it have a community septic system. Im thinking maybe one of the building's septic tanks or individual system messed up. Do you know which building has the problem specifically?
-
The "TANK" is part of the "system" including everything from the toilets to the leach field. That is what a septic sytem is.
-
I know, but which building? Each building has a separate tank. If there was a failure, it would be on an individual building's tank/system. I know all about private septic systems, I own one and had to have it repaired last year.
-
Get this place SHUT DOWN! They are going to PAY for firing me. Who cares about the tank. All that matters is that they PAY because they took me away from all the darling kids. How can I help them as a MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL if I'm not there. I want this place closed.
-
I agree, great post, shut em down!!!
-
On 2006-04-22 06:45:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Anybody care to comment on the physical plant?
Can anyone explain why the septic system is broken and the management refuses to get it fixed, but has money and time for the boss' new office?
I always knew they were full of shit, but not in the literal sense. That's all changed now.
"
You know its really not all that different than the time the school ran out of toilet paper over the weekend and refused to purchase more before the shipment was to due to arrive that monday. They gathered us all together and said we'd have to; "Make do.".
We'll I can assure that is exactly what we did, just without toilet paper. What memories we all share.
If I had to guess as to how they will deal with this issue....probably use the ample supply of slave labor to simply dig an outhouse.
To be honest DJ I think youre expecting a bit much, I mean honestly these kids' parents only pay close to $100,000.00 for this program. Youre being a tad bit unreasonable if you expect that paltry amount to pay for working toilets.
The school does have the equestrian program to think about right Nicole?
-
On 2006-04-22 09:21:00, SHH wrote:
"I know, but which building? Each building has a separate tank. If there was a failure, it would be on an individual building's tank/system. I know all about private septic systems, I own one and had to have it repaired last year. "
Wow Cybil, first goose poop and now septic systems. You really are an expert on bullshit huh?
-
To be honest DJ I think youre expecting a bit much, I mean honestly these kids' parents only pay close to $100,000.00 for this program. Youre being a tad bit unreasonable if you expect that paltry amount to pay for working toilets.
It's astounding to me.
What are the parents of these children doing to ensure their kids' health and safety?
-
Dysfunction Junction wrote:
What are the parents of these children doing to ensure their kids' health and safety?
Putting their full trust in their hired captors to act with integrity and in the child's best interest. At $100K+ one would expect stellar care.
There isn't one unique technique employed by HLA that a parent couldn't employ at home. Why would they, when they have the means to hire it done? Could it be, because they would risk being charged with child abuse/ neglect for employing the same techniques?
Why the double standard?
Why is/was it ever acceptable to limit a child's calories as punishment, to hold them incommunicado from the rest of the world, to subject them to experimental techniques, to refuse their basic needs? Could it be that some parents were unaware of the details of their child's 'treatment'?
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-04-23 12:34 ]
-
Because the government has designated them as enemy combatants?
-
HLA announced it was going to up-grade the food service a short time ago..They were going to have a "POTATO BAR" two nights a week... that was to be dinner, just the potato..even Wendy's offers meat with their potatoes...Apparently, the excitement
of the idea went in the wrong direction.The parents 'revolted' after being revolted at the notion of paying 72,000. a year to witness the end of the potato famine at HLA..Charles Cates sent them a letter, basically saying, they were going to "pass" on the "potato bar" idea..
-
Did Jay Leno write this, or what???
-
Parent Workshop tomorrow...They shall probably not have to send out for pizza this time...
if those potatoes didn't get used...Voila,
"Potato Bar"
-
wait they still havent fixed problems with the septic sytem or whatever, that thing has been messed up ever since i was there (2 years ago in may is when i left) hell we used to have to haul rocks and shit through the damn leach field which was constantly overflowed and always smelled like sewage. anybody know if the water still goes out every other week in the summer?
-
Just a thought...If you want to be taken seriously, you might want to clean up your act a bit....You have much to offer..think about it..
-
I know several of you want to get on here and rant and rave, use expetives, but honestly, if you want your voice to be heard further than Fornits...you need to think before you write..
You are needed at this time to be taken seriously,no coalition or attorney is going to
truly hear you, if they think you are a lunatic..
We all feel like telling HLA what to do with a
stick, but it is fruitless and really just strokes ones own ego and makes us smaller than
those we wish to be accountable...And, the sad thing is, there was a young girl raped with
'said stick'..If we want to prevent this from happening again to another child, then I feel we need to clean up our act here...Fornits has been a wonderful source of help for all concerned,
but it is still recognized by many as a luny
bin...we want to assure them it is not...
-
While I understand your concern as to how "we" are viewed I think Fornits provides a much needed venting place. There are plenty of other forums that are moderated and most of the vulgarness, foul-language etc. is edited out and that's fine but I think there NEEDS to be a place where former inmates/students/patients can say exactly what they think and feel. It's also a good measure of what places like HLA create. This stuff (the slams, tempers, vile shit posted) is the product of HLA and others. THIS is what happens when you break someone's will. THIS is what happens when they're subjected to sadistic and arbitrary forms of punishment alternated with various love-bombing etc. All this...ALL of it, is a direct result of being in there. Let this be the one place where we can speak freely since we were controlled and censored for far too long.
-
Amen.
-
That is fine, however, a few of these posters,
have stated they are tryng to find an attorney..
no attorney in their right mind would sign on..it is simply the way it is...Vent away...
-
You have no idea how wrong you are.
Things are already in motion attorneys are already in place. We are doing a great deal more than "venting"
The thing you have to remember is that it wasnt just the school being mean or unfair, it was systematically engaged in illegal activities.
They broke the law and now they are going to pay the price.
-
On 2006-04-27 10:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That is fine, however, a few of these posters,
have stated they are tryng to find an attorney..
no attorney in their right mind would sign on..it is simply the way it is...Vent away..."
Honestly, if an attourney thinks that they can win a case like this (and most that ive telked to about theese things do) the thngs you say on the internet dont really matter all that much. Most people are a lot more open to venting and saying bad things on the internet than they are in person due to the internets anonimity.
-
Robert,
What you say is correct..However,one has to understand the way things work...All that is said on here, is subject to the scrutiny of the court...no one in his right mind would place
a potential witness on the list that conducts themselves like they have..It is just how it works..
-
Its only libel if it isnt true.
Remember we can back up all of our claims against HLA.
-
Yes that is true..But it is the"merit" of the witness that is construed..They don't want some
raving nut job, that cannot contain themselves..
That is the problem with other potential suits..
the attorneys will not touch them...They need people that can express themselves in what 'they'
deem an appropriate manor..not what we think is right or wrong...Everyone here does want to
"stick it to HLA", that 'is' what the Forum is here for..venting..but, to be 'heard' in a court is an entirely different ball game, with different rules...
-
Robert,
Also, many of us can back up our claims, but I have spoken to people on this forum, that say one thing, then their memory becomes fuzzie
and next thing you know it was actually third party knowledge.. It doesn't demean what they went thru...it is just, they would not be a good witness..
-
i think a lot of people become really paranoid under scrutiny and dont want to say bed things about HLA without being completely anonymous, thats why when you e-mail some people they all of the sudden clam up. (its a lot easier to trace an e-mail address back to someone than it is a forum post)
-
They need to be said..That is how we help each other, that is how the 'machine' will fail...
Everyone has a need to vent, but then there is a time and place to be constructive if one wishes to achieve anything further...
-
of course they need to be said, but it needs to be done in a way that people arent fearful of retribution for telling the truth. And another thing a lot of people (including myself) have a hard time putting this into words in a sane way sometimes because its hard to eloquently put down such insane and terrible events from ones life, hell theres a year of my life from HLA that i cant even remmeber most of let a lone talk about fuilly coherently.
-
yes, a very sober and restrained witness is the best. However, courtrooms and judges have seen many very upset people vent over the years, and judges that take their job seriously will recognize that we ALL vent when the conditions are right. Put yourself where these students were, and understand why they vent. And the students in many cases should put themselves where their parent/guardians were, and understand how a loving parent or guardian could send you away. A child wrecking a family is not a good thing either, and "growing up" is not a valid excuse in most cases.Sure as hell not if the family doesn't survive the child's "growing up".
A person who vents here at Fornits will not necessarily vent on the stand, the attorney or their staff would see that the person is suitable for testifying, or not. For example, RB vents at times, and at other times is a very sober individual. I think he would be able to testify just fine.
There is still a lot of anger in many students, and a lot of anguish in parents. Anger is more likely to lead to venting. Let it be, but mediate it if you can.
Anger and venting helped close down Love's Canal, and countless other pollution issues. It may help here, if not out of control. It makes the anger and anguish clear to a reader - or a judge.
-
On 2006-04-27 11:41:00, kid_thorazine wrote:
"of course they need to be said, but it needs to be done in a way that people arent fearful of retribution for telling the truth. And another thing a lot of people (including myself) have a hard time putting this into words in a sane way sometimes because its hard to eloquently put down such insane and terrible events from ones life, hell theres a year of my life from HLA that i cant even remmeber most of let a lone talk about fuilly coherently."
I appreciate what you said, particularly about it being hard to put into words. People just can't fathom and think you are exaggerating. Talking about it can bring up intense emotions and one must risk feelings of humiliation if the listener doesn't take them seriously or seems disinterested. I've seen this with my sons who attended different facilities. They're both hypersensitive now about being humiliated- something they never want to feel again. Humiliation is too 'victimy' so the reponse is usually anger.
I think they're both hypersensitive to any kind of 'consequence' too. In neither facility did the punishment fit the crime. Everything was black or white, no grey areas. Having your every thought and feeling analyzed 24/7/365 is enough to make a sane person bugall crazy.
I very much think venting is a necessary process of getting over it which is most times more useful if done with a caring and trusted friend, relative or therapist. (hope you don't consider the last one to be a dirty word now- my son's do)
Anyway, welcome. Every story is a piece of the puzzle and those who have most of the pieces are those like yourself, who lived it. Thanks for sharing.
-
Now kids are taken to the doctor instead of vice-versa. It has been reported that the facility wasn't making "enough money" off doctor visits because when the doctors came on campus, the facility provided the space and the parents paid the doctor.
Now the parents pay the doctor and pay HLA for the transportation ($94.00). Now they're getting their "cut."
Since taking kids to the doctor has now become a "value-added service" for HLA they're taking the kids in busloads. One goes out today in fact.
It's all about the money.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-05-02 11:04 ]
-
On 2006-05-02 11:02:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Now kids are taken to the doctor instead of vice-versa. It has been reported that the facility wasn't making "enough money" off doctor visits because when the doctors came on campus, the facility provided the space and the parents paid the doctor.
Now the parents pay the doctor and pay HLA for the transportation ($94.00). Now they're getting their "cut."
Since taking kids to the doctor has now become a "value-added service" for HLA they're taking the kids in busloads. One goes out today in fact.
It's all about the money.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-05-02 11:04 ]"
I wonder why the parents are allowing HLA to soak up the largesse instead of really questioning why HLA needs more money. They made $10,000,000.00 last year in profits. Is that not enough? Especially considering the owner is the only shareholder. $10 million in profits for one guy isn't enough? When will enough be enough?
-
10 million in profits? I think your numbers are a bit high.
-
On 2006-05-10 11:53:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"10 million in profits? I think your numbers are a bit high. "
No, it's exactly on, actually. Look at their 1099. It's a fact.
-
On 2006-05-10 11:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-05-10 11:53:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"10 million in profits? I think your numbers are a bit high. "
No, it's exactly on, actually. Look at their 1099. It's a fact."
Correction: $10,000,000.00+ in gross revenue.
$5700/mo x 150 head of cattle = $10.2 million, give or take.
-
SHUT THIS PLACE DOWN. I ORDER IT!
They can not make a profit. Not since they fired ME! I will ruin them.
-
Your life must suck. Huh?
-
On 2006-05-10 12:40:00, Dysfunktionjunktion wrote:
"SHUT THIS PLACE DOWN. I ORDER IT!
They can not make a profit. Not since they fired ME! I will ruin them."
CAn they make that kind of a profit and then continue to hit parents up for additional funding for non-existant chapels, non-existant horse therapy? Can they make that kind of profit and complain that there isnt enough money for toilet paper etc.???
-
what does all inclusive really mean to you
-
Paychecks are issued on Tuesdays at HLA. I have heard that Dept. Heads and Assistant Dept. Heads are being told not to cash or deposit their checks until Friday. This is a bad sign.
If these paychecks are being cut with insufficient funds in the payroll account, this amounts to a federal crime. It is illegal to issue payroll checks that have insufficient funds for their amount.
No benefits, no overtime, now no regular checks. How much longer can it last?
I have been told that HLA is "totally insolvent" and that there are no more lenders willing to extend credit based on poor repayment history and lack of "credible bookeeping" upon which to base a loan.
-
As of early this week the water was off again -
construction maybe? Anyway, the kids were without ALL bathroom facilities. How much more
humiliation can there be? This is the 2nd time
within the last couple of months; last time water was off for 3 days.
-
On 2006-05-02 11:02:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Now kids are taken to the doctor instead of vice-versa. It has been reported that the facility wasn't making "enough money" off doctor visits because when the doctors came on campus, the facility provided the space and the parents paid the doctor.
Now the parents pay the doctor and pay HLA for the transportation ($94.00). Now they're getting their "cut."
Since taking kids to the doctor has now become a "value-added service" for HLA they're taking the kids in busloads. One goes out today in fact.
It's all about the money.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-05-02 11:04 ]"
Name a business that is not about the money. They need to pass off the cost of "doing business" to the customer. Just about every parent/person is aware of this concept. Some business's charge for paper clips and it piss's people off and so they stop and just call it admin fees, so what !! If parents protest they stop and adsorb the cost (for a short time) and recoop it somewhere else ! Why do the basic rules of doing business constantly miff you?
DJ --- Listen closely, Its about the money, dont you cash a paycheck a few times a month? Its all around you, no one is exempt.
-
It's never a problem for a company to put money first, however you are ignoring several larger issues.
1. The school claims it in fact isnt about the money. They claim its about helping children.
2. The school employs questionable tactics at best, including lying to the state about its purpose, lying to parents and ed cons about the actions that go on there, and forcing children to lie for them.
3. The school is engaged in numerous illegal activities including the abusing of rights of children, employees rights violations, and numerous other suspect staffing policies. Along with of course what some might consider abuse and neglect.
4. 10 million a year ought to cover the basics, the school is all about the money and its willing to cut any corner..no matter the cost.
-
Why do the basic rules of doing business constantly miff you?
DJ --- Listen closely, Its about the money, dont you cash a paycheck a few times a month? Its all around you, no one is exempt.
I'm an MBA and have been a long-time manager and executive at large companies. I know a thing or two about business and it doesn't "miff" me.
What is troublesome is unethical, dishonest and outright illegal business practices. This includes offering "all inclusive" tuition then charging extra for basic necessities like medical care simply because the facility decided to fire their entire healthcare staff so they can make an override on childrens' doctor visits.
What part don't you understand? Is it that you approve of unethical and illegal business practices or that you don't understand the difference between ethical and unethical or legal and illegal?
-
On 2006-04-26 18:42:00, kid_thorazine wrote:
"wait they still havent fixed problems with the septic sytem or whatever, that thing has been messed up ever since i was there (2 years ago in may is when i left) hell we used to have to haul rocks and shit through the damn leach field which was constantly overflowed and always smelled like sewage. anybody know if the water still goes out every other week in the summer?"
It does...
-
I have just learned from my child (former student) that
3 brand new Tahoes with all the extras - dvd player navigation system, etc., etc, were recently purchased to transport the kids to doctor visits among other thimgs, and that kids were being taken
daily to doctors. Buying fancy cars, charging
for a service that is advertised as included in
tuition (full time nurse, dr. on campus once
or twice weekly) while not having adequate super-
vision in the dorms. Also, staff are being pulled
off their normal duties to make the "medical runs." The parents of these kids are being soaked
and scammed from every possible angle. This whole
picture makes me sick to my stomach.
-
This sounds about par for the course.
If anyone thinks that the kids come first at HLA, they realy ought to get their head checked.
-
Has anyone at HLA recently been told not to cash their paychecks? :???:
-
There is an MD on campus, just one without a medcial license...
-
is tuition late again?
-
On 2006-06-17 06:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"is tuition late again?"
Your mom is late again.
-
On 2006-06-16 21:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There is an MD on campus, just one without a medcial license..."
:eek:
-
On 2006-06-01 14:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have just learned from my child (former student) that
3 brand new Tahoes with all the extras - dvd player navigation system, etc., etc, were recently purchased to transport the kids to doctor visits among other thimgs, and that kids were being taken
daily to doctors. Buying fancy cars, charging
for a service that is advertised as included in
tuition (full time nurse, dr. on campus once
or twice weekly) while not having adequate super-
vision in the dorms. Also, staff are being pulled
off their normal duties to make the "medical runs." The parents of these kids are being soaked
and scammed from every possible angle. This whole
picture makes me sick to my stomach. "
It is assinine how these places con parents and hurt kids.
This program doesn't pay for referrals does it? Not that it matters, ed cons can be just as bad as we have learned but where do these places get all these kids?
-
The 2000 Demographics stated
Ed Cons 64%
IECA 48%
Non-IECA 16%
Other 36%
-
On 2006-06-26 07:04:00, Deborah wrote:
"
The 2000 Demographics stated
Ed Cons 64%
IECA 48%
Non-IECA 16%
Other 36% "
Wow, thanks a lot Deb!
:tup: