Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: sammiegirl on February 25, 2006, 05:09:00 PM
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STAY TUNED FOR UPDATES PICTURES/VIDEOS
Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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Portesters passed out fliers to members of the ROTC who are in attendance at the Holocaust Awards Dinner and the fliers WERE IMMEDIATLEY TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM BY banquet staff
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The cops have arrived and are giving the protesters a hard time
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THE PROTESTERS ARE STANDING THEIR GROUND AS MORE PROTESTERS ARRIVE, THEY WILL HOLD THEIR GROUND AND GO TO JAIL IF NEED BE!
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it's 1968 all over again ::rocker::
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Burning bra's seem to help too. AHH ... I think they are all headed for Canada next... :grin:
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On 2006-02-26 06:13:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:
"Burning bra's seem to help too. AHH ... I think they are all headed for Canada next... :smile:
Stripe
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Sorry about misspelling Bra's. I am sure you have had nothing but quality education.
I have stated exactly how I feel about everything on this site.
I guess you would be alot better than me in a spelling bee.
You sure do have a strong sting.
I personally feel the seed was run alot differently than alot of the other drug programs.
I must say you bug the shit out of me. Every one of your posts I sence a cold heartedness that turns me off everytime. You actually send fear through me. I personally have never mistreated anyone.
Maybe its because you are an attorney and thats what I pick up.
I just don't like you - sorry I'm being honest.
[ This Message was edited by: Ft. Lauderdale on 2006-02-28 05:10 ]
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On 2006-02-28 05:08:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:
I personally feel the seed was run alot differently than alot of the other drug programs.
I must say you bug the shit out of me. Every one of your posts I sence a cold heartedness that turns me off everytime. You actually send fear through me. I personally have never mistreated anyone.
Well, your feelings are unfounded. The only difference I know of between the Seed and Straight is that Mel Sembler was far more adept and better connected politically and a far more competent business man.
Oh he who's name (for reasons I can't fathom) must never be mentioned, you have never personally mistreated anyone? You've given some pretty decent renditions of Seed abuse toward me and others right here on this public forum, right in front of God and everybody.
And darlin' I think you for this, it's one of the reasons why I host this site. But I do sincerely hope that, one day, you'll be able to relocate that line of seperation between you and the cult so that you won't be so fear ridden over critical discussion about the cult.
An Animated Cartoon Theology:
1. People are animals.
2. The body is mortal and subject to incredible pain.
3. Life is antagonistic to the living.
4. The flesh can be sawed, crushed, frozen, stretched, burned, bombed, and plucked for music.
5. The dumb are abused by the smart and the smart destroyed by their own cunning.
6. The small are tortured by the large and the large destroyed by their own momentum.
7. We are able to walk on air, but only as long as our illusion supports us.
-- E. L. Doctorow "The Book of Daniel"
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Two things. I find Stripe to be an engaging and well thought out poster. Perhaps your feelings toward her are directly in proportion to her attitude about the seed?
Who knows? That is for you two to work out.
However, as one of the few that was both in the seed and who has attended a rap and an open meeting at a modern day incarnate of one of these programs, and who has also met with for several hours the director and participants and parents of the incarnation program, I will offer my opinion on your comment.
There are differences between the modern programs and how the Seed was run. The differences are as thus.
1) The modern day programs are run on a professionalized version of the seed in order to qualify them for insurance. Therefore, there are likely to be certified counselors on staff and even a real doctor or psychologist.
2) The amount of time required to finish the program is much longer, as is the "phases" themselves.
3) The leaders don't seem to be anywhere near as charasmatic or endear as much love (and hatred) as
Art could muster.
4) The violence for the most part is less overt. I should probably explain. They have written and published policies against contact. From time to time, these policies are violated, and much or less depending on the individuals in charge (like the seed st pete vs the seed ft laud).
5)The kids don't describe themselves as "heading down the path to certain ruin", they describe themselves as addicts, thanks in part to Dr. Miller Newton's book.
Other than that Ft Lauderdale my friend, these kids are singing seed songs, screaming "im coming home" at open meeting, rapping and motivating away to the signs, steps, and serenity prayer, participating in boy's and girl's raps, and secretly plotting their escape to freedom. The basic model that Art popularized remains intact.
The similarities far outweigh the differences.
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I have to stick up for Ft. Lauderdale here. He is - was - one hell of a nice guy. Sure, he's not the best speller...and sometimes he's sarcastic - and yeah, he does truly love The Seed...but he is a good, good guy. I lived with the guy so I guess I would know.
He was always ready to help anyone, honest to a fault, hard-headed and really funny. I think he lived the best of whatever the Seed credo was - or was supposed to be.
I have encouraged him to take a hard look at the Seed when we have spoken, and I think he's been open minded, even though in the end we would probably disagree.
Also, anyone who has warm feelings for the Seed is understandably less likely to be first to be critical of the program. I think we have to allow for individual differences here and not attack one another personally (OK he did attack Stripe first)...
OK, I feel better now...
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Antigen or Eudora or whatever fantacy name you decide to go by today, I have only given back what you have given towards me. You can call it my seed stuff all you want. Thats what you seem to get off on anyway. Please examine your own backyard and look over things you have said to me. I guess this is getting a little old. I guess I do waste my time on this site. I must have a screw loose for keeping up with this site anyway. Once again the real reason I do is because it has enabled me to reconnect with alot of people I have not had contact with in many years. This I thank you for.
So Long.
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Fuck you moron
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On 2006-02-28 12:31:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:
Please examine your own backyard
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I guess get a really large mirror and bend over
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Cant we all just get along?
R. King, after taking a major smackdown.
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-02-28 14:33 ]
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Thank you to the protesters. I appreciate what you're doing, on behalf of all of us. Thank you for having the courage to get out there and shed some light on the atrocious deeds of Sembler and others.
I too think that Stripe's posts have been consistently thoughtful, articulate, fair, brave, and honest, and I was surprised to see Ft. Lauderdale attack her personally in this thread. I was also surprised that Lauderdale mocked the anti-hate/anti-straight protests, and seemed to suggest that protesting itself is some kind of ludicrous relic from the 1960s. God help us if that's true; if that's the case, we can really kiss our democracy goodbye.
It's actually been a cleverly used right-wing propaganda tactic, I think, that you see expressed in the media from time to time--dismissing the relevance of any type of protest by deeming it "reminiscent of the sixties."
I'll also say that, though Lauderdale is explicitly on the other side of the fence from me in these discussions about the Seed, it's also warmed me at times to read his friendly, funny posts, like when he's teased Greg about his sex appeal and so forth. I think that's sane and beautiful. What the heck, we're all here now, posting on the internet; we might as well lighten up with each other.
As for similarities and dissimilarities between The Seed and subsequent programs, I learned A TON by reading Maia Szalavitz's outstanding book, Help At Any Cost. I cannot recommend it highly enough, especially for anyone who wants an overview of the big picture of the "teen help" industry, both historically and currently. Excellently written too. A fascinating read. She's done a public service by writing this book and I hope it gets around.
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I really mean it. I wish we could somehow just "get along". I also understand this is an emotional issue and understand how people get offended.
Hell, I stayed offended for over 20 years anytime anyone disagreed with me about the seed, my feelings were so strong and personal. I sometimes see Ft lauderdale and others like him as the antithesis of me for all those years, so I tend to understand as we used to say "where they are coming from". Then at times when I see Ginger or Stripe or someone else get emotional about someone's comment, I identify with that also. Sometimes a comment seems to touch an ancient pain or pick an old wound.
All in all, I like the people who post here. I understand that us "all getting along" is a big order and at times even impossible. Still, we have done what I never thought possible, and that is unite people on this very devisive issue. This in itself is a big accomplishment
I am rambling and I will shut up.
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On 2006-02-28 11:16:00, cleveland wrote:
He was always ready to help anyone . . .
. . . except for infidels.All thinking men are atheists.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author
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Well, I really do want to get along. I want to know what the hell happened. But there are things happening now, right now, that I can't and won't pretend don't matter.
That wonderful, insidious Utopian dream that drew people into the Seed is now manifesting itself in the death of kids like FloridaTreasure (http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=&addterms=phrase&forum=all&search_username=floridatrea+ure&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search).
We were kids when we got sucked up into that laviathan. We're the grown ups now. Now we're tasked with salvaging all that was good and condemning all that was wrong of the all that our parents and grandparents had to teach us. I understand people who just want to tend their own yard and not delve too deeply into this.
But if you want to throw down, be ready to defend your position. If you're not, then don't.
If they can get you to ask the wrong questions they don't have to worry about the answers
--Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow (Proverbs for Paranoids)
_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-28 18:46 ]
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Deleted.[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2006-03-01 12:51 ]
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Do 12 of us get to go vote now or do we just change the channel?
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You're such a prick
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On 2006-03-01 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're such a prick"
:silly:
And apparently suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder and low self esteem.
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On 2006-03-01 08:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-03-01 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're such a prick"
:silly:
And apparently suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder and low self esteem."
After posting I thought I best explain this lest it be misconstrued by any of the principles in this emotionally charged exchange ...
It's supposed to be a joke about Anonymous being twelve of "us" then Anonymous replying with the "You're such a prick". A very weak attempt at humor I know.
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I vote- keep your day job.
I've adjourned.
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On 2006-03-01 04:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Do 12 of us get to go vote now or do we just change the channel?"
Thats pretty funny!
SDF survivor style.
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I vote to change the channel. In fact, I unilaterlly changed the channel without a consensus by deleting my post.
Back to the point of the thread - where exactly in the Straights.com are the reports and video of this protest?
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On 2006-02-25 15:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"THE PROTESTERS ARE STANDING THEIR GROUND AS MORE PROTESTERS ARRIVE, THEY WILL HOLD THEIR GROUND AND GO TO JAIL IF NEED BE!"
Yes, it took a while to count them (protesters) all, but when the tally was finalized it was 3! LOL
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Jesus Mary & Joe ?
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Maybe, Moe Larry & ... Oh Oh Stripe may come after me too. Ouch!!!
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Right on the front page. Least they were yesterday, haven't had time to look today.
On 2006-03-01 12:59:00, Stripe wrote:
"I vote to change the channel. In fact, I unilaterlly changed the channel without a consensus by deleting my post.
Back to the point of the thread - where exactly in the Straights.com are the reports and video of this protest? "
That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.
Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service