Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: shopgirl2005 on February 22, 2006, 09:03:00 PM
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Can anyone give me their thoughts on Rancho Valmora?
The therapeutic boarding school is located in New Mexico.
I'm still looking at options for my son who currently attending a Wilderness Program.
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which one?
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On 2006-02-22 18:03:00, shopgirl2005 wrote:
"Can anyone give me their thoughts on Rancho Valmora?
The therapeutic boarding school is located in New Mexico.
I'm still looking at options for my son who currently attending a Wilderness Program."
Bring you kid home and get him the appropriate treatment he needs and deserved in YOUR OWN COMMUNITY.
These places are scams and shams. They don't provide the professional help your kid needs. Haven't you done enough damage already by sending him to a WP? Isn't that enough "tough love" bullshit for him?
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In New Mexico. Believe me I've tried every single treatment possible at home and nothing works in the long run so don't talk to me about this because you have no idea what you are talking about. I've never heard any positive comment on any type of therapeutic facility from you so I rather not hear your opinion because you are not objective.
If anyone else has had some experience with Rancho Valmora in New Mexico please let me know.
Thanks in advance.
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Oh but he does.
You asked for help lady, dont get pissy when the response you get isnt one you were looking for.
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On 2006-02-26 14:12:00, shopgirl2005 wrote:
"Believe me I've tried every single treatment possible at home and nothing works in the long run so don't talk to me about this because you have no idea what you are talking about. I've never heard any positive comment on any type of therapeutic facility from you so I rather not hear your opinion because you are not objective."
If you don't want our honest opinions, then why did you ask for them? Face it, you don't want honesty from us at all. You don't want OBJECTIVITY either. What you're really after is for someone here to say that you're still a good mother, even though you've already given up on your son, and are intent on abandoning him to the hands of total strangers.
Why do you care what we think anyways, when it's clear that you've already made up your mind about this?
The fact is, people like myself, DJ, Robert, and a shitload of others who post here have real, first hand, personal experience in these places.
They are abusive, exploitative, non-theraputic, and ultimately a big waste of time and money. These places hurt a lot more than help. And yes, the Behavior Modifaction Industry is a huge scam, concocted by criminals who've built their lives around capitalizing on the misery of unsuspecting families. Helping our kids is not their priority, what really matters to them is how much money they can squeeze from dopes like you! Why else do you think that these scam shacks are run by
corporations, instead of not-for-profit groups like legitimate schools are?
You really should put some thought into this, before exiling your son to some rock in the middle of nowhere. You would do well to take our advice seriously. We're only trying to help your son, and save your bank account in the process.
Of course, if you prefer to be suckered by a bunch of frauds, well then I guess that's something you'll have to live with.
How does that old saying go?...oh yeah:
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
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[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2006-02-27 06:56 ]
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We are looking to place my 17 yr old daughter in rancho valmora, and we are not "bad parents" we have not "given up" on our daughter. We simply have 10 months left before she is 18 and this is our last chance to get her straightened out before she can decline treatment legally. She is a cocaine addict who is obsessed with her boyfriend, who supplies cocaine to her. he is abusive. She denies his abuse. The police are helpful when she is missing and help return her, but she immediately runs away. This all started when the cocaine use started in september-october of last year. Before that she was a normal teen who had ups and downs, but never disappeared for two days at a time and showed up with bruises and needed to be hospitalized. We need to place her in a safe, locked facility so she can be treated, because she will leave our home if she does a day program. Ever try keeping a 17 year old in the house from 3 pm until 7.30 am? She ran away the last day she was home TWICE in 12 hours while we where home. We cannot handcuff her to the bed, we cannot lock her in the room (she would jump out the window) we cannot maintain employment if you have to drop off at a day program in the am (can't get to work before 9.30) and pick up in the pc (must leave work at 2 pm) Our hope is to get her therapy and counseling, and she will not remain in our home to do so. She only runs away to see the loser boyfriend, who is homeless.
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On 2006-02-27 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
We cannot handcuff her to the bed, we cannot lock her in the room (she would jump out the window)
Of course not, that would be considered abuse so just drop her off with some strangers and pay them to do it for you. :roll:
Our hope is to get her therapy and counseling,
She ain't gonna get it at any of those mindrape mills.
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If you can't manage to hold her against her will at home, what methods do you imagine the facilty will use to keep her detained?
What treatment model will she be subjected to for her 'addiction'?
How will they handle "detox"?
Will she be physically or chemically restrained?
By whom, and are they required to report the nature and length of each restraint?
Will they use a solitude room (closet)? Will she be clothed or naked?
Will she be denied access to a bathroom while in solitude?
How will you know if she is indeed being 'helped'?
Will you and the facility abide by the federal ICPC law?
Will you have regular, unmonitored contact with her?
If not, how will you know if the program is providing a useful service for your daughter?
Those for starters.
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Shopgirl, I don't know the first thing about Rancho Valmora. But if it is at all similar to some of the other places that are advertised as residential treatment centers, then you should steer clear. Most places have been accused of abusing children, and their philosophy - behavior modification - is completely ineffective at best, horribly damaging at worst.
I know that the responses of some of the posters on here may seem harsh, but please try to understand where they are coming from. They have either been through one of these programs or have children who went through one, and have first-hand knowledge of how horribly wrong these places can be. In their own way, they are trying to save you from making a terrible mistake. Most places will just make your daughter's problems worse, and she may never forgive you for sending her away.
If you are still dead-set on sending your daughter away, make sure you THOROUGHLY research places first. Don't rely on what some educational consultant tells you - most of them get "referral fees" (a/k/a kickbacks) for recommending schools. Don't rely on accreditation - make sure the place is licensed and monitored by the state. Check the Better Business Bureau, the local courts, and try to visit the campus unannounced. If you don't get full access to the place, that is a HUGE red flag.
My advice, though, would be to find her a very good therapist who can help her work through her issues. Good luck.
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I've tried every single treatment possible at home and nothing works in the long run so don't talk to me about this because you have no idea what you are talking about.
With all due respect, madam, it is you who knows nothing of which you speak. If your situation is as you describe, then you are seeking improper treatment for your daughter.
I happen to have over a decade of experience working with kids like your daughter and I can tell you that NO behavior modification center is going to help.
If you stae your kid's condition correctly, I want you to do a couple of things. One, get her into a short-term rehab (30 days) to get her off the cocaine. After she completes the rehab she'll need good aftercare including an addictions counselor and a regular therapist. It sounds like you are in need of family counseling as well because you don't get a coked-up abuse dummy for a kid by accident.
If her bf is a coke dealer, drop a dime on him to the local PD. It's that simple. Have him surveilled and pinched.
These are the things I want you to do. If you haven't tried these options, then you HAVEN'T done "everything" you can.
If you're looking for someone to tell you you're a great parent and it's fine to send your kid to an abusive conformity factory, then, no, you'll not get that from me.
And you're completely wrong that I have an "agenda." I love and respect children and advocate for them so they get REAL treatment that REALLY works. I fail to see why that angers you or causes you to become dismissive. It sounds like it is you who has an agenda - to send your kid away.
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From the Aspen forum:
On 2006-01-09 05:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Amazing how the People who have only POSITIVES to say always hid behind "anonymous".... anything you say is simply not worth listening to? If you really know what your talking about come forward and stand up for your convictions with a real name!"
This was the response given by another Anon to the previous statement:
"Want to know why that is, people? It's because there's a handful (at least) of rabid anti-any-school posters here who talk like they are a menace to anyone who has a different opinion.
I'm talking threats of finding disagreeing posters, coming to their homes and raping and killing them---and their children. I've seen that here.
More important than just words: these type of posters take action, posting people's personal information so their fellow psychopaths can harass people in their personal lives.
As a result the people who are identified may get threatening calls in the middle of the night,it's happened. They end up having to talk to lawyers and police, and put call-traps on their phones so that if the psychopaths call back there's a chance of locating them. Maybe these brave anti-school characters carry a label here, but they get a little shy and do not identify themselves when they call, you can be sure of that.
As far as I know nobody's been actually killed by a fornit's type so I guess that's something to be thankful for.
So that's why you don't see many positive opinions under an identifiable label. Who wants that kind of trouble.
Look around this site: there is very little hope of intelligent discussion, meaningful, respectful disagreement.
The only reason I've personally even posted here is because I want to give an alternative opinion to any parents with a kid in trouble who might be surfing around and looking for a school. We know from our own family experience that much good can come of placing a child in a residential program after all other alternatives have been tried.
If parents who stumble onto this site only saw the negatives they might get a really lop-sided view point. When we put our child in a program we were lucky enough to have been unknowledgable of the internet, hence we were spared the rantings constantly posted here.
To other parents, we have a wonderful outcome in our family, I beg you: talk to real people when making your decision. Don't go by a site like this. Aside from the obvious psychological problems of many of the anti-school posters, you can't even tell on a forum like this whether the people are real or playing some kind of malicious game.
And to other parents: in my opinion at least, you're making a big mistake if you post your name or other identifiers in the hope of direct communication as a source of information. Some of these posters are really scary, you don't want them contacting you if you decide to use a school and ignore their one-sided advice.
The site's owner seems to have no interest in removing personal information that gets posted here, by the way, so if you post your name or number or email, it may be for good, as will be the case if somebody else posts it.
So be careful. The site's owner seems to think that she is immune from consequences because others have posted this kind of info, even though she's the one who leaves it up even when there are threats associated with it.
Ultimately it will be a court (not a forum owner) who decides what is illegal or even criminal. On the Hidden Lakes Academy (HLA thread) you'll find posts by a crazy named Overlordd or something like that: Hidden Lakes ended up getting lawyers to force removal of his posts associated with that school (the posts in question are now gone due to the legal action although discussion of the whole legal process that occurred remains).
So we parents who are harassed do have recourse under the law, some of us are working on larger solutions like federal ways to discipline site owners, automatic money damages.
But anyone should think really long and hard before self-identifying here: ask yourself :"How much time, effort and money is it worth to me, do I really want to be associated with the madness that is Fornit's?".
To the person arguing with Dysfunction Junction et al on this thread: don't bother. What you say (however rational) will make no difference to these people.
Your instincts are good: there is an agenda here, and it's one that your positive comments are threatened by.
Do yourself a favor, use your energy to talk to other parents who have a real time view of these schools. Then do what you have to do.
What these opinionated strangers think matters not at all in your life.
Do what you have to do and if you have a good experience, well, do other parents a favor and speak up about it later, for safety I'd do it anonymously.
:cry2:
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As a result the people who are identified may get threatening calls in the middle of the night,it's happened. They end up having to talk to lawyers and police, and put call-traps on their phones so that if the psychopaths call back there's a chance of locating them. Maybe these brave anti-school characters carry a label here, but they get a little shy and do not identify themselves when they call, you can be sure of that.
Are you saying that this is something that I did? You're nuts and obviously can't read too well. This story you are reporting happened to ME. I was called and threatened with violence FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST A PROGRAM.
Who's the nut here?
I'm talking threats of finding disagreeing posters, coming to their homes and raping and killing them---and their children.
Yeah, this happened to SOS. A PROGRAM KID and HIS MOTHER threatened him. The kid threatened to rape SOS's wife. The mother threatened to find him and sue him - again for SPEAKING OUT AGAINST A PROGRAM.
It is people like you who make this place so ugly. All you do is threaten and bait and GET THE STORIES BACKWARDS to say that you were threatened, but it was US who were threatened, not you.
You, anon (or should I say Anne?), are an unmitigated liar.
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"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-02-27 19:48 ]
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On 2006-02-27 19:47:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
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As a result the people who are identified may get threatening calls in the middle of the night,it's happened. They end up having to talk to lawyers and police, and put call-traps on their phones so that if the psychopaths call back there's a chance of locating them. Maybe these brave anti-school characters carry a label here, but they get a little shy and do not identify themselves when they call, you can be sure of that.
Are you saying that this is something that I did? You're nuts and obviously can't read too well. This story you are reporting happened to ME. I was called and threatened with violence FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST A PROGRAM.
Who's the nut here?
I'm talking threats of finding disagreeing posters, coming to their homes and raping and killing them---and their children.
Yeah, this happened to SOS. A PROGRAM KID and HIS MOTHER threatened him. The kid threatened to rape SOS's wife. The mother threatened to find him and sue him - again for SPEAKING OUT AGAINST A PROGRAM.
It is people like you who make this place so ugly. All you do is threaten and bait and GET THE STORIES BACKWARDS to say that you were threatened, but it was US who were threatened, not you.
You, anon (or should I say Anne?), are an unmitigated liar.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-02-27 19:48 ]"
S/he knows you didn't do that:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =50#165931 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13488&forum=41&start=50#165931)
I feel a FALL OUT coming on.... Annie Classics.
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If you can't manage to hold her against her will at home, what methods do you imagine the facilty will use to keep her detained?
What treatment model will she be subjected to for her 'addiction'?
How will they handle "detox"?
Will she be physically or chemically restrained?
By whom, and are they required to report the nature and length of each restraint?
Will they use a solitude room (closet)? Will she be clothed or naked?
Will she be denied access to a bathroom while in solitude?
How will you know if she is indeed being 'helped'?
Will you and the facility abide by the federal ICPC law?
Will you have regular, unmonitored contact with her?
If not, how will you know if the program is providing a useful service for your daughter?
Those for starters.
Well, my daughter just finished the program at Rancho Valmora, so I'm very familiar with it. They don't have physical or chemical restraints, or anything like that. It's a positive peer culture program (look up the book with that name on Amazon). There's no solitude room, in fact it's the opposite. With PPC, you're ALWAYS with your dormmates ("peers"), and each one is tasked with helping the others in their group.
PPC is completely, 180-degrees different from "treatment" programs that humiliate, hurt, lock up, berate, etc. To get a small taste of what it's about, read the quotation from the PPC book at:
http://www.cyc-net.org/quote2/quote-372.html (http://www.cyc-net.org/quote2/quote-372.html)
Rancho Valmora is a wonderful place. The things they say on their web site are really what they do, not BS. My daughter's experience there is so good that she wants to keep in touch with not only other students but many of the staff who have meant so much to her while she's been there. It's unfortunate that there are so many bad programs around, but Rancho Valmora isn't one of them.
Besides being licensed as a residential treatment program by the state, Rancho Valmora is a small town (it IS the zip code 87750). They have a public high school, Valmora HS, on the grounds, which is overseen by the public school system, and it has a separate principal. And, Rancho Valmora is a ***NON PROFIT***. Their interest is in helping kids, not in making money off desperate parents.
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Good for you.
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Sorry, but this place looks just like an HLA clone. How can the place be non-profit when the tuition is $5,550 per month?
http://www.ranchovalmora.com/admissions.htm (http://www.ranchovalmora.com/admissions.htm)
Rancho Valmora charges $185 per day, or $5,550 per month based upon a 30-day month for families paying directly for services. (The rate for managed care organizations or other third party entities may be higher due to increased administrative costs.) Our daily rate includes all in-house costs related to treatment, room, board, education and activities. The only additional charges that may be billed are for outside psychological or academic assessment and evaluation (needed in relatively few cases), and for transportation to and from the Albuquerque airport for any trips other than admission and graduation.
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We are looking to place my 17 yr old daughter in rancho valmora, and we are not "bad parents" we have not "given up" on our daughter. We simply have 10 months left before she is 18 and this is our last chance to get her straightened out before she can decline treatment legally. She is a cocaine addict who is obsessed with her boyfriend, who supplies cocaine to her. he is abusive. She denies his abuse. The police are helpful when she is missing and help return her, but she immediately runs away. This all started when the cocaine use started in september-october of last year. Before that she was a normal teen who had ups and downs, but never disappeared for two days at a time and showed up with bruises and needed to be hospitalized. We need to place her in a safe, locked facility so she can be treated, because she will leave our home if she does a day program. Ever try keeping a 17 year old in the house from 3 pm until 7.30 am? She ran away the last day she was home TWICE in 12 hours while we where home. We cannot handcuff her to the bed, we cannot lock her in the room (she would jump out the window) we cannot maintain employment if you have to drop off at a day program in the am (can't get to work before 9.30) and pick up in the pc (must leave work at 2 pm) Our
hope is to get her therapy and counseling, and she will not remain in our home to do so. She only runs away to see the loser boyfriend, who is homeless.
Dear Guest,
I know that you're desperate to save your daughter from the life she's chosen, and I believe that you are genuinely trying to help and have her best interests at heart.
My question for you is why a therapeutic boarding school?
If she has a cocaine addiction and a history of defending men who abuse her, then I suggest that you look into a regulated Rehabilitation Center.
There are many such centers around the country. They are equipped with ACTUAL Detox facilities, which I doubt many Therapeutic Boarding Schools are (HLA definitely was not.)
They also are more equipped and experienced with addressing the more "adult" issues that your daughter faces.
A "school" program might seem ideal, but your daughter needs to be learning why she craves the acceptance of abusive people, not Biology.
Additionally, these boarding schools accept kids as young as twelve, and as a result the environment is much less mature.
Your daughter is almost 18, and she will respond SO MUCH BETTER to an environment where she is surrounded by adults (mostly 18-25 year olds on average) instead of little kids joking each other about wetting the bed.
Trust me, being surrounded by pre-teens who are there for curse language and stealing candy only makes a program that much harder to take seriously.
SHE WON'T.
She needs a group of actual PEERS. If she is with more mature people she will handle herself with maturity. If she is surrounded by people who sincerely want to change their lives then she will examine her problems with sincerity.
In contrast, if she's surrounded by children who talk almost non-stop about running away and all the drugs they plan to do after they graduate the program (which is what they do) then she'll focus on glorifying her drug use and how she can make up for "lost time" when she turns 18.
The bottom line is that your daughter needs an intervention, not a forced imprisonment in a therapeutic boarding school. It shouldn't be too difficult to find a Rehab for her (maybe even one she'll concede to), plus state and government sponsored Rehabs are more easily monitored for safety and have less of a conflict of interest.
A friend of mine recently died of a heroin overdose, and another friend came clean with her parents about her drug use and, with her family, decided to enter a Rehab in California. It hasn't been all sunny skies.. she has relapsed a few times. BUT she has been able to go back to her family and friends from rehab and ask for help. It is ALL ABOUT TRUST. My friend can be honest because she isn't afraid of punishment or judgment.
If you enroll her in a "therapeutic boarding school", you will send her a very clear message that you don't have any faith in her, and as a result, she won't have any in you.
You cannot force her to change.
She has to realize for herself that she needs to change.
But, you CAN be the person she comes to when she hits rock bottom and really needs help... if she feels she can trust you.
Please don't alienate her and lose her trust, because she is going to need you. Her problems are coming from a place far deeper and darker than you can imagine.
Research rehabilitation, detox, and counseling centers for ADULTS, have her family and friends confront her with their fears about her behavior in a place where she can't run away and is forced to hear them, and then discuss her options with her. Don't leave the room until you've reached a decision TOGETHER. She has to be part of the decision making process if she's to feel responsible for her own recovery.
I'm afraid that sending your daughter to a Therapeutic Boarding School will backfire tremendously. For her sake, please consider a Rehabilitation Clinic instead.
I've seen a lot... The mistakes of myself, my parents, and others...
And I've occasionally seen someone do something that actually helped themselves or their child, and not just for the short-term.
If you,
or anyone,
can learn from the mistakes made by so many parents who sent their children to the WRONG place,
or at least benefit from the knowledge that there are others ways to deal with and help your child,
then my suffering from my experience at HLA
as well as from helplessly witnessing the death and pain of friends whom I've loved
won't have been without meaning.
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mary,
that was very well put...it made a lot of sense and was done with maturity as well as experience...
if you don't mind i would just like to add that since the guests child will be 18 in only a short time (shorter time than the program) if you were to put her in a place like, or actually place her in HLA she will walk at 18 and the staff will not be able to do anything to stop her...she will get to the end of the road at the bottom of the driveway and the staff will have no choice but to let her go...and they will not be able to go after her...the school will notify the local police that she is gone but other than that, she will be an adult and it will be totally and completely up to you to look for her....and depending on where you live and how long it would take you to get to georgia...you would lose precious time and during that time (as it has happened in the recent past) she could be picked up by the "wrong" locals and then God have mercy on her...there is a lot of meth up here and if she is looking it isn't hard to find...or she may get to the bus stationand then you may lose her forever...
and during all of that...the school will have most likely made a great deal to you so that you pay the tuition in full and then (the least of your worries) you would be out any and all of that money, too...just adding insult to injury...
please, guest, take heed to what mary has said...she knows from the experience of being a studen and knows what she is talking about with older students...
take care and God bless...i am sorry that you are dealing with this situation...think carefully before you make any decisions...especially ones that could lose you your daughter...
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I am one who thinks TBS' can do a lot of good for kids. I have seen it many times. Of course, if they are run poorly, then there is a great potential for harm. My opinion in your situation is that the closer you get to 18, the more difficult it is for a TBS to do any good. I have seen it be successful, but most of the time a TBS is not the best place for an almost 18 year old. If she needs something to just get her back on track you might want to try some of the licensed short term wilderness placements. Good ones will also be able to offer you reccomendations about further treatment options. Be careful, though, as there are good ones and some very bad ones. Or, you might want to try a rehab center that has a good reputation in your area. Don't worry about her missing school right now. You can take care of that later. The main thing is getting her help from qualified people.