Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 05:46:00 PM
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Ok, so I can somewhat understand the anger directed towards the Danish newspaper for publishing those cartoons depicting Mohammed (or however you spell that). It's against their religion to portray him. That I can understand. Maybe the paper shouldn't have done that, but they did. Nothing they or the people who are so angry about can do now. It's done.
What I can not understand is why the hell the people have turned against the Danish government. Like they had anything to do with what is published in newspapers. It's not their fault. So why all the anger at the government. And I was just waiting for this to turn into a whole big debacle, and it has. Now they are saying that it's somehow Americas fault. That we are the leader of the West and that we shouldn't allow things like this to happen.
Well fuck that. I'm serious. How the hell is any of this our fault?! We didn't publish the pictures. Hell, even our newspapers won't publish them out of respect for the religion of Islam. I mean seriously, people, get a grip. So some asshole in the Neatherlands or whatever drew some pictures of your spiritual leader with a bomb for a turbin. So what! Isn't there some element of truth in that picture? Isn't the stereotype at the moment that all Muslims are terrorists. It sure seems that way. So maybe this is a correct depitcion of how Islam is viewed in the "West."
Take a long hard look at this situation. Is it worth getting killed over? Is it worth killing someone over? No. Is any of this shit that goes on in the Middle East worth all thr trouble people go through. No. But out of all the reasons to be so upset about something, this is by far the worst one yet.
IT'S A FUCKING CARTOON!!!!!!!
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I heard ya man! I've been ranting about it for a couple days now over in this thread ...
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... orum=32&17 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13812&forum=32&17)
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Clearly we're seeing the ugly face of fundamentalism. Wow, they are really mad, and can't seem to take a joke!
Does anyone really think these people are ready for a "democracy"?
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The Arabic Muslims are the children of Ishmael. It was foretold to his mother Hagar, he and his line would be like the wild ass of the deserts - with his hand against every man, and every man's hand against him - but that they would live near their brethren - the children of Sarah's son, Isaac, the Jews.
I think wild asses is a perfect description of these people.
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http://select.nytimes.com/2006/02/09/op ... ks.html?hp (http://select.nytimes.com/2006/02/09/opinion/09brooks.html?hp)
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On 2006-02-09 13:03:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"http://select.nytimes.com/2006/02/09/opinion/09brooks.html?hp
"
ack ... they want me to register! :lol:
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Oh, shit. I'm sorry!
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Online NY Times used to be free to all. Now you have to pay for most articles, but it's cool cause if you are a subscriber, you can search for and access any old articles from their paper- up to 100 per month!
Frank Rich is my favorite op-ed writer. But he's on an extended break now, to write a book.
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Seems to me that one of the obsticles to peace and tolerance is that we judge what we don't understand. Why can't one man gather what another man spills ?? Why does the man who is spilling need to condemn the man who is gatherin ?? and vice versa ?? My friend, Fred says to me: "The first law of anthropology is make no moral judgement". Which I take to mean if you want to understand a people throw away all your prejudice, otherwise you will only see a reflection of yourself. This world is in serious trouble.
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Does anyone know if the the Muslim cartoonist
make fun of others?
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On 2006-02-10 06:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Does anyone know if the the Muslim cartoonist
make fun of others?"
The right-wing danish paper held a contest for cartoons of Muhammed. Out of about 40 regular cartoonists, only about 9 took the offer, and only 3 of them actually made serious political satire with their cartoons, the ones that have been deemed offensive. These cartoonists knew crazy muslims might try to kill them, and they did it anyways. Bravo to them. The west should not allow crazy religious cults to dictate what can and can't be said. Why the other cartoonists refuse to poke fun at Muhammed like they do every other political and religious figure is obvious... they know a lot of Muslims are fanatics.
I'd say, unless these cartoonists have made a living exlusively poking fun at Mohammed, then yes, they have made fun of others. Isn't that their job??
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Again, I ask...who thinks these people are ready for democracy?? Only an ethno-centric idiot would think so.
Look how these people react to a free press! As for "free elections"- look at that nut who runs Iran!
Saddam doesn't look so bad now, does he...
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Their culture and minds are clearly not ready for "freedom" which means letting people do things you dont like and saying things you dont like, granted it doesnt actually hurt you.
Letting people hurt you isnt freedom, its stupidity - and sitting idle while these fantical Muslims are CLEARLY looking for any excuse to get self rightous, mad, and have a jihad is stupid.
*Groan* frankly, striking a deal w/ saddam to benefit economically would have been better. It seems that when you have a primitive culture you need primitive means to keep them in line.
Yeah, Im jaded! But hey, we gotta worry about ourselves, here, and those 400 or so abu ghraibs with children in them right now, not some anachronistic culture that we only care about because they happen to control an essential resource the whole world relies on.Never in the history of any nation has an education system been so on the point of disintegration and decay as the education system in this country...We know that education in this country is as bad as it can be. We know that it is old-fashioned, irrelevant, and not meaningful.
--U.S. Senator Abraham A. Ribicoff, 1970
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http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/156813.php (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/156813.php)
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Can you imagine in fifty years...
Teacher: "And that is how World War III started class."
Student: "Why would people kill other people over a cartoon, I don't understand...?"
Teacher: "Neither do we Timmy, neither do we."
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Saddam doesn't look so bad now, does he...
Remember before we went in, all the propoganda about how he has a human blender... rape room.. etc. WHy hasn't the military found the human blender? I wanted to see what a damn human blender actually looks like. I've seen it in cartoons... why can't they show us his human blender? Fark WMD's we want to see some human blendage!!
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On 2006-02-10 06:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Does anyone know if the the Muslim cartoonist
make fun of others?"
http://angrygwn.mu.nu/archives/126452.php (http://angrygwn.mu.nu/archives/126452.php)
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On 2006-02-10 18:21:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"Again, I ask...who thinks these people are ready for democracy?? Only an ethno-centric idiot would think so.
Look how these people react to a free press! As for "free elections"- look at that nut who runs Iran!
Saddam doesn't look so bad now, does he..."
The Miriam-Webster online definition:
ethnocentric
One entry found for ethnocentric.
Main Entry: eth·no·cen·tric
Pronunciation: "eth-nO-'sen-trik
Function: adjective
: characterized by or based on the attitude that one's own group is superior
Are you and others here not being ethnocentric yourself by the words you have posted?
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Good question Webcrawler. You took the words right off my key-pad. I think there's enough "ethnocentric idiots" on both sides of this conflict.
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Are you and others here not being ethnocentric yourself by the words you have posted?
I'll admit to that. I don't try and explain away my human instincts. IF I have to pick sides, hell yeah I'm picking the west.
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I don't think that my ethnic group is superior, have never thought that (at least, not in comparison with those in other countries)...oh, until I saw these groups of people on the news, burning buildings in response to A CARTOON!
It actually restored some of my faith in our way of life.
I mean, half of America (the red parts) may living in the Dark Ages, but nobody would start violent riots over a cartoon.
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Iranian paper aims for cartoon contest
BY NASSER KARIMI
ASSOCIATED PRESS
February 8, 2006
TEHRAN, Iran -- An Iranian newspaper said it would hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West extends the principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide as it did to the caricatures of the Muhammad, the founder of Islam.
Meanwhile, about 50 protesters hurled firebombs and stones at the Norwegian Embassy in Iran's capital, the second straight day of violent protests against European missions in Tehran.
Hamshahri, one of Iran's largest papers, made clear the contest is a reaction to European newspapers' publication of Danish cartoons of Muhammad, which have led to demonstrations, boycotts and attacks on European embassies across the Islamic world. Several people have been killed.
In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called the proposed contest outrageous.
The newspaper said the contest would be launched Monday and cosponsored by the House of Caricatures, a Tehran exhibition center for cartoons.
The paper and the cartoon center are owned by the Tehran Municipality, which is dominated by allies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, well-known for his opposition to Israel.
Ahmadinejad, who was Tehran's mayor until being elected president in June, provoked outcries last year when he said on separate occasions that Israel should be wiped off the map and the Holocaust was a myth.
Elsewhere, protests and demonstrations continued Tuesday:
# Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen called the protests a global crisis.
# NATO peacekeepers in Afghanistan exchanged fire with protesters who attacked their base in a second straight day.
# Protests occurred in India, Pakistan, the Gaza Strip, Egypt, Nigeria and the Philippines.
Copyright © 2005 Detroit Free Press Inc.
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Although I mostly agree with free speech concepts, the newspapers could have made a free choice to not offend an entire region of the world. I don't really get why they did the cartoon in the first place. There are people who argue that free speech should not apply to hate speech, like burning crosses on black people's lawns, harassing gay people, and so on. I sort of see the value in not protecting hate speech. The concept of free speech was brought about to allow citizens to speak freely against their governments. Is there really any value in protecting hate speech against citizens or other non-government parties? I would see a lot of value in, say, the Saudi government protecting that sort of press, but what value does that have in the west? Westerners should be poking fun at the crazy Christians running our governments. I mean, Bush talked to God before deciding whether to invade Iraq. How funny is that? I'd pay top dollar for footage of Bush talking to God about Iraq.
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Yeah I mean... it's not nice and all to poke fun at people's gods or whatever... but I think what surprised everyone was the response of the muslim world. They issue fatwas to kill the cartoonists, etc.. violence.
(http://http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060206/060206_wp_london_protest_hmed9p.hmedium.jpg)
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I do make fun of Christians.
But these Muslim protesters are behaving just as ridiculously as our Christians here.
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I'm not saying that they're not behaving like lunatics. I would have been surprised if they didn't. I mean, these are people who are beheading citizens of other countries just to make political demands.
I'm just saying that the reasons behind free speech rights are inapplicable here. They exist to protect citizens from their own government. For instance, in Iran, people are free to slander Jews and Christians to their hearts' content. But if they said anything about Islam, they would be put to death. The citizens in that type of situation need free speech rights if change is to be brought about. Their government is run by fundamentalist Shiite Muslims. Speech against the people in charge should be allowed.