Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 20, 2006, 03:21:00 AM
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I have been reading the Carlbrook thread for a while on and off. I am a parent and a health professional. I also read with some clinical and research acumen the so-called research article about the Lifespring groups, so widely quoted by the adolescent moderator of this forum. Firstly, it is based on adults (not adolescents) who already supposedly have their egos formed and are supposedly somewhat well-adjusted, or at least functional enough to have $350 to spend on a workshop. Secondly, it is based on quasi-psychoanalytic research, about which I know quite a bit, and its methodology is faulty, and who pays attention to psychoanalytic research any more? The group referred to in the article took place in 1981, this research is 25 years old!! How can you even bother to quote it? From my perspective, the kids at Carlbrook took a wrong turn on their path and many got themselves into so much trouble and became so alienated from the outside world that they could no longer accept any help. Virtually all the ones I am familiar with had extensive therapy, other boarding schools, day programs and the like and parents who wanted to but could no longer communicate with the child they loved. Wilderness and a therapeutic boarding school is a last resort, but when you have a kid who is running away, or staying out all night, or selling and using drugs, or is so promiscuous, or getting DUIs and might kill themselves and is not listening to any adult, what is a parent to do in the end? I don't think any of the people who bash therapeutic programs have any answers about what to do that are better than a school like Carlbrook from the posts I have read. Sometimes you have to tear the ego down in order to rebuild it - that is not the worst thing in the world. Regression happens in psychotherapy ALL THE TIME in a therapist's office, then the person reorganizes and goes out into the world, back to work, back to their family. The problem is when adolescents act out so much that they get into trouble that they cannot get out of and that's where places like Carlbrook come into play. The school is young, so you are not going to find graduates from 5 years ago. The owners/directors are heartfelt and if they are a little tough, believe me, most of the kids can handle it and they need that toughness sometimes. But there is also a lot of love there and moderator, if you are knocking love, you have a real problem. I won't post again. You can tear me down if you like. I don't care because whatever you say comes from you and has nothing to do with me, since you don't know me. I hope you find your way in life. I wish you well.
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Dude, give it up already. No matter how many people you pretend to be, it's pretty obvious that you are the same person who continuously does carlbrook damage control. I mean, you don't even bother to change your writing style from one persona to the next.
_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-20 01:54 ]
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On 2006-01-20 00:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have been reading the Carlbrook thread for a while on and off. I am a parent and a health professional. I also read with some clinical and research acumen the so-called research article about the Lifespring groups, so widely quoted by the adolescent moderator of this forum. Firstly, it is based on adults (not adolescents) who already supposedly have their egos formed and are supposedly somewhat well-adjusted, or at least functional enough to have $350 to spend on a workshop. Secondly, it is based on quasi-psychoanalytic research, about which I know quite a bit, and its methodology is faulty, and who pays attention to psychoanalytic research any more? The group referred to in the article took place in 1981, this research is 25 years old!! How can you even bother to quote it? From my perspective, the kids at Carlbrook took a wrong turn on their path and many got themselves into so much trouble and became so alienated from the outside world that they could no longer accept any help. Virtually all the ones I am familiar with had extensive therapy, other boarding schools, day programs and the like and parents who wanted to but could no longer communicate with the child they loved. Wilderness and a therapeutic boarding school is a last resort, but when you have a kid who is running away, or staying out all night, or selling and using drugs, or is so promiscuous, or getting DUIs and might kill themselves and is not listening to any adult, what is a parent to do in the end? I don't think any of the people who bash therapeutic programs have any answers about what to do that are better than a school like Carlbrook from the posts I have read. Sometimes you have to tear the ego down in order to rebuild it - that is not the worst thing in the world. Regression happens in psychotherapy ALL THE TIME in a therapist's office, then the person reorganizes and goes out into the world, back to work, back to their family. The problem is when adolescents act out so much that they get into trouble that they cannot get out of and that's where places like Carlbrook come into play. The school is young, so you are not going to find graduates from 5 years ago. The owners/directors are heartfelt and if they are a little tough, believe me, most of the kids can handle it and they need that toughness sometimes. But there is also a lot of love there and moderator, if you are knocking love, you have a real problem. I won't post again. You can tear me down if you like. I don't care because whatever you say comes from you and has nothing to do with me, since you don't know me. I hope you find your way in life. I wish you well.
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STFU already. Anyone with ANY mental health training whatsoever can see very clearly that you are not any kind of therapist.
At least try reading a 101 textbook or something before you try to pose as an authority. You quite obviously are no kind of professional.
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This is a different poster and what he/she is saying is correct. Carlbrook is the best choice for a certain kind of kid who has dug himself into a hole. It buys them time, if nothing else.
Show a little maturity in your responses and accept this truth.
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On 2006-01-20 05:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This is a different poster and what he/she is saying is correct. Carlbrook is the best choice for a certain kind of kid who has dug himself into a hole. It buys them time, if nothing else.
Show a little maturity in your responses and accept this truth."
Accept what truth? Show the results of any clinical study that show the program does work.
I, for one, am certainly not going to take the word of some huckster who says in one one breath "psychoanalysis is dead" and then "sometimes we must break down the ego" in the next. This person clearly has no education in this area and it's painfully obvious.
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Sometimes you have to tear the ego down in order to rebuild it - that is not the worst thing in the world.
Have you experienced it? I have, and yes I consider it terrible and abusive to do this to kids without their foreknowledge of what is going on.
BTW - welcome to FORNITS, Chairman Mao. :eek:
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I am a parent and a health professional.
Exactly what mental health qualifications and eductation do you have?
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You can tear me down if you like. I don't care because whatever you say comes from you and has nothing to do with me, since you don't know me.
We have to TEAR YOU DOWN before we can BUILD YOU BACK UP.
Try being a kid and having NO CHOICE and being PHYSICALLY FORCED to get TORN DOWN. You have no idea and the ideas you are spouting here come straight from the mouth of this centuries evil dictators. This is way over the top unbelievable. My guess is it's just a troll, the same troll who is here everyday talking about Carlbrook.
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On 2006-01-20 07:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You can tear me down if you like. I don't care because whatever you say comes from you and has nothing to do with me, since you don't know me."
We have to TEAR YOU DOWN before we can BUILD YOU BACK UP.
Outstanding point. Well said.
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The teardown/build up bullshit wears out when they're removed from the environment that does so - generally within 3-5 years.
But yeah, best way to shut someone up... give them a taste of their own medicine! :roll:
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
--Unknown
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Well, the poster who started this topic isn't me. I'm the person who was first accused of being a CB staffer in disguise, and then got upgraded to "selfish parent" because I mentioned the cost of short-notice airline tickets. There are at least two posters here who have had kids asked to leave CB. Me and one other person. Both of us still think that overall the school helped. My kid has posted here too. It would probably help if people had to register before posting. There are too many anonymous posters and it makes it difficult to figure out who's legit, who's trolling and who's trying to do damage control. I keep thinking I'm not going to check this board, or post anymore, so I don't register. Then a CB topic comes up, and I'm back on it. Carlbrook parents and former parents generally have email addresses for many other parents. I have occasionally discussed this board with other CB parents, so please don't think it's just one person doing all the posting. As for the similar writing style, most of us are college graduates, and remember some of what we learned in English 101. As a group, CB parents may appear pretty similar, especially to posters on this board. I'm just very happy this board was here when we were looking for a school. It has probably kept kids out of Provo, Bethel, Island View, Tranquility Bay and other places like that. Postings of news items relating to fatalities are the most valuable because educational consultants don't give you that info. Postings of first hand experiences are great and allow you to look beyond the school's glossy brochure and smooth website. After reading this board for a while, you can generally figure out who to ignore (happy belated 21st birthday!) and whose input to consider.
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And I'm one of the other parents whose kid did not complete the program. I'm the anti-Bender person. I have tried on a number of occasions to engage in rational discussions on this forum, to no avail. I know of at least two other parents who had kids at Carlbrook in my son's peer group who have posted on here.
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Get a name, most people just skip over anon posts.
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On 2006-01-20 00:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Sometimes you have to tear the ego down in order to rebuild it - that is not the worst thing in the world. Regression happens in psychotherapy ALL THE TIME in a therapist's office, then the person reorganizes and goes out into the world, back to work, back to their family.
"
You may be a "health professional" (ie: a home health aide, medical billing, receptionist, etc.). But you are clearly not educated about sound clinical mental health treatment.
"Tearing the ego down" and "regression" can be damaging to an individual who has experienced any kind of trauma or behavioral health issues. In the case of someone with a history of abuse, anxiety, depression, PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder etc., this type of therapy can inspire increased disorganization and psychiatric symptoms. If someone feels broken, this type of therapy can enhance feelings of low self worth and anxiety. Regression should not be a part of therapy "all the time." This is an unsafe and clinically unaware perspective. Have you heard about the repressed memory lawsuits? If someone with minimal training (ie Carlbrook staff) dabbles with regressive therapy techniques, they are playing Russian roulette with the patients. And they open themselves to massive malpractice lawsuit.
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" Sometimes you have to tear the ego down in order to rebuild it - that is not the worst thing in the world. Regression happens in psychotherapy ALL THE TIME in a therapist's office, then the person reorganizes and goes out into the world, back to work, back to their family.
"
"All the time", huh?
You may be a "health professional" (ie: a home health aide, medical billing, receptionist, etc.). But you are clearly not educated about sound clinical mental health treatment.
I'll second that. "Regression" is an overused term that has been bastardized and used in everything from psychic encounters ("Regressions to a past life") to your friendly neighborhood unlicensed behavior mod "Professionals"
The only time "Regression" is used in real psychiatry is in the case of severe disorders, such as multiple personalities, and the clinical term for that is "Dissociative Disorder".
This I learned during my undergraduate work in Psychology. I took a different road and am persuing a different type of graduate work - so you notice I don't pass myself off as a "Professional"
On the other hand, I too, am a "Health Professional" - I've been a certified nurses aide for 20 years. I haven't used it for many years, but the states of Massachusetts and Florida still recognize me as a CNA. Big deal. :grin:
It's still astounding to me the type of help parents choose for their children. A cardiologist and a pediatrician are both Medical Doctors, but you don't take your kid to a cardiologist for a snotty nose, do you?
"Now, I'm a walking dead man," ... "And what bothers me is that I'm dead because I tried to help the kids. And it's all the fault of all those people over there at the DEA." [Dead Man Talking]
--Ben Guillory
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Where are we going, and what are we doing in this handbasket??
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[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2006-01-21 09:32 ]
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"Psychiatrists are advised to avoid engaging in any 'memory recovery techniques' which are based upon the expectation of past sexual abuse of which the patient has no memory. Such 'memory recovery techniques' may include drug-mediated interviews, hypnosis, regression therapies, guided imagery, 'body memories', literal dream interpretation and journaling. There is no evidence that the use of consciousness-altering techniques, such as drug-mediated interviews or hypnosis, can reveal or accurately elaborate factual information about any past experiences including childhood sexual abuse. Techniques of regression therapy including 'age regression' and hypnotic regression are of unproven effectiveness." -- Royal College of Psychiatrists, U.K., 1997
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"It is the consensus of the Panel that hypnotic age regression is the subjective reliving of earlier experiences as though they were real--which does not necessarily replicate earlier events." -- American Medical Association Council on Scientific Affairs, "Scientific Status of Refreshing Recollection by the Use of Hypnosis" (Journal of the American Medical Association, 5 April 1985, Vol. 253, No. 13, pp. 1918-1923)
"Techniques of regression therapy including 'age regression' and hypnotic regression are of unproven effectiveness." -- Royal College of Psychiatrists, U.K., 1997
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Pssst!
Two major organizations in the mental health profession who watchdog child abuse have newly condemned Attachment Therapy as practiced widely in this country.
The American Psychological Association, through its Section on Child Maltreatment and its Division on Child, Youth and Family Services, has endorsed a new 14-page report from the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children, which takes "a stand" against the "contraindicated assessment, treatment, and professional practices related to children described as having attachment disorders."
In two pages of strongly worded recommendations, the report urges substantial changes in the attachment-based diagnosis, assessment, treatment and parenting approaches which "purport to help children described as attachment disordered."
Full Text of article: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 53&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13553&forum=9)
Ok now, if anyone wants to take a moment to pull your foot out of your mouth or shit in your hat, now's the time. I'm goin for a smoke. :smokin:
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth.
--Mohandas K. Gandhi
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Wilderness and a therapeutic boarding school is a last resort, but when you have a kid who is running away, or staying out all night, or selling and using drugs, or is so promiscuous, or getting DUIs and might kill themselves and is not listening to any adult, what is a parent to do in the end?
You're so ignorant... kids that do that stuff all have no or little self-esteem. You don't send them out into the wilderness with verbally abusive "therapists" to cure their self-esteem. I know that when I was in the wilderness, my self-esteem was even lower than before I was admitted.
Wilderness Therapy is NOT a cure-all. And don't even try to argue with me about it... because I have lived it. And you, ma'am, have not.
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Ok, first off Nobody is the adolescent moderator of this forum so I don't know which kid you think you're picking on. I'm the site admin and I'm probably older than you are.
But you're right about one thing; I do think the entire "troubled teen" industry is a sham. The entire industry rests and feeds on the faulty notion that any kid who isn't thrilled to death w/ everything must, therefore, be crazy.
It's an attractive deal for a certain kind of parents. It's like God in a bottle to you. It's just SO much easier to call the kid names like RAD and ODD than to consider that you have given them bad advice when you told them to respect all of their teachers and other authority figures.
Guess what? I know this may come as a total shock to you, but some people who are drawn to vocations that place them in authority over vulnerable others are drawn by a sadistic desire to control others. In other words, sometimes angry, rebellious, dissafected kids are right! Being kids, they don't always go about dealing with such problems in the most sensible, productive way. That's where you missed the boat, mom and dad. You were supposed to keep an eye on things, mediate and advocate FOR not AGAINST your kid when they came into conflict with others. It was never your job EVER to act as adjunct enforcer for the faceless social engineers behind the school system or the delusional Rambo area drug taskforce who see imaginary thugs and gangsters behind every bush.
It was your job to be ever and always on your kids' side, to provide safe harbour in a storm, unconditional love and acceptance. After they start growing up it's the KID's job to invent themselves as adults and to build their own lifestyle.
But when your kid decids that they most definitely do NOT aspire to be just like you (as I'm sure you did if you're really honest about it) it's just so much easier to call that a disorder than to consider that maybe you're not quite as cool as you thought you were.
[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce
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On 2006-01-21 10:08:00, Eudora (fka ~ Antigen) wrote:
"Ok, first off Nobody is the adolescent moderator of this forum so I don't know which kid you think you're picking on. I'm the site admin and I'm probably older than you are.
But you're right about one thing; I do think the entire "troubled teen" industry is a sham. The entire industry rests and feeds on the faulty notion that any kid who isn't thrilled to death w/ everything must, therefore, be crazy.
It's an attractive deal for a certain kind of parents. It's like God in a bottle to you. It's just SO much easier to call the kid names like RAD and ODD than to consider that you have given them bad advice when you told them to respect all of their teachers and other authority figures.
Guess what? I know this may come as a total shock to you, but some people who are drawn to vocations that place them in authority over vulnerable others are drawn by a sadistic desire to control others. In other words, sometimes angry, rebellious, dissafected kids are right! Being kids, they don't always go about dealing with such problems in the most sensible, productive way. That's where you missed the boat, mom and dad. You were supposed to keep an eye on things, mediate and advocate FOR not AGAINST your kid when they came into conflict with others. It was never your job EVER to act as adjunct enforcer for the faceless social engineers behind the school system or the delusional Rambo area drug taskforce who see imaginary thugs and gangsters behind every bush.
It was your job to be ever and always on your kids' side, to provide safe harbour in a storm, unconditional love and acceptance. After they start growing up it's the KID's job to invent themselves as adults and to build their own lifestyle.
But when your kid decids that they most definitely do NOT aspire to be just like you (as I'm sure you did if you're really honest about it) it's just so much easier to call that a disorder than to consider that maybe you're not quite as cool as you thought you were.
[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce
"
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
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PUKE
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On 2006-01-21 09:43:00, LauraLee wrote:
"
Wilderness and a therapeutic boarding school is a last resort, but when you have a kid who is running away, or staying out all night, or selling and using drugs, or is so promiscuous, or getting DUIs and might kill themselves and is not listening to any adult, what is a parent to do in the end?
You're so ignorant... kids that do that stuff all have no or little self-esteem. You don't send them out into the wilderness with verbally abusive "therapists" to cure their self-esteem. I know that when I was in the wilderness, my self-esteem was even lower than before I was admitted.
Wilderness Therapy is NOT a cure-all. And don't even try to argue with me about it... because I have lived it. And you, ma'am, have not."
As a professional, I submit to you that there is no such thing as "wilderness therapy." Being forced to hike and to sleep outdoors with inadequate diet and hygiene and no counseling by a professional provider cannot be, under any circumstances, construed as "therapy."
Wherever did you get the idea that this is therapy?
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Should participants in 'therapy' exit with a negative association to nature, healthy food, even the word 'therapy'?
Should they be subjected to the risk of death or serious injury, amputations due to infection/ frostbite, digestive problems, post PTSD, live with the fear of being sent back if they cross some unclear line, etc?
Given that they have any 'effectiveness' at all, how effective would they be if they were not permitted to beat/starve/scare them into submission?
Over priced private jails in the wild. And we know the recidivism rate of punitive institutions.
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On 2006-01-21 10:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"PUKE"
Here, you should seek treatment for that:
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/901290364.html (http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/901290364.html)When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do.
William Blake
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On 2006-01-21 10:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"PUKE"
What's this? An allergy, or just a really bad reaction to facts?
:rofl: Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
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On 2006-01-21 11:07:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-01-21 09:43:00, LauraLee wrote:
"
Wilderness and a therapeutic boarding school is a last resort, but when you have a kid who is running away, or staying out all night, or selling and using drugs, or is so promiscuous, or getting DUIs and might kill themselves and is not listening to any adult, what is a parent to do in the end?
You're so ignorant... kids that do that stuff all have no or little self-esteem. You don't send them out into the wilderness with verbally abusive "therapists" to cure their self-esteem. I know that when I was in the wilderness, my self-esteem was even lower than before I was admitted.
Wilderness Therapy is NOT a cure-all. And don't even try to argue with me about it... because I have lived it. And you, ma'am, have not."
As a professional, I submit to you that there is no such thing as "wilderness therapy." Being forced to hike and to sleep outdoors with inadequate diet and hygiene and no counseling by a professional provider cannot be, under any circumstances, construed as "therapy."
Wherever did you get the idea that this is therapy?
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Because the people doing it to him/her said that it was therapy, and forcing them to do something under duress thats extremely difficult and doing it through great suffering means they'll eventually 'succeed' and 'know they can do it!' so they get self esteem from that. Or... something. :roll:
Oh but its so difficult and youre forced to endure bullshit and be obedient because youre in control to much and need to be taken down a notch.
Ah, self contradictory nonsense... and the assumption that enduring suffering is a "groth experience". Why dont any real psychs come out and say this is bullshit?Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine
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Sometimes you have to tear the ego down in order to rebuild it - that is not the worst thing in the world.
No you don't and yes it is (to the victim, anyway).
That anyone could post such a thing (and believe it) goes a long away towads explaining everything that is wrong in our society.
I cannot imagine any tolerant, sane person believing they (or anyone else) has a right to "tear the ego down" against the will of victim.
What is legal and what is moral are often very different things. The 'first you break them' part of tough-love is a violation of human rights; period.
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AA, did you happen to catch where this pos(t)er claimed to be a "mental health professional"?
Must be some kind of joke.
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Two major organizations in the mental health profession who watchdog child abuse have newly condemned Attachment Therapy as practiced widely in this country.
The American Psychological Association, through its Section on Child Maltreatment and its Division on Child, Youth and Family Services, has endorsed a new 14-page report from the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children, which takes "a stand" against the "contraindicated assessment, treatment, and professional practices related to children described as having attachment disorders."
In two pages of strongly worded recommendations, the report urges substantial changes in the attachment-based diagnosis, assessment, treatment and parenting approaches which "purport to help children described as attachment disordered."
Recommendations reflect criticism of the overuse of the "Reactive Attachment Disorder" (RAD) diagnosis by providers and the failure to rule out other more commonly encountered conditions. They also caution that children not be diagnosed and assessed with attachment problems solely because of past maltreatment or neglect. "Assessment should respect the fact that resiliency is common, even in the face of great adversity," the report concludes.
The report's warns professionals against using a litany of practices common to Attachment Therapy and its associated parenting techniques:
"Treatment techniques or attachment parenting techniques involving physical coercion, psychologically or physically enforced holding, physical restraint, physical domination, provoked catharsis, ventilation of rage, age regression, humiliation, withholding or forcing food or water intake, prolonged social isolation, or assuming exaggerated levels of control and domination over a child are contraindicated because of risk of harm and absence of proven benefit and should not be used."
The APSAC report also attacked the mistaken theories of child development and behavior that are used to justify the use of AT. For example, it devastatingly critiqued a key belief used to sell AT to parents: "Intervention models that portray young children in negative ways, including describing certain groups of young children as pervasively manipulative, cunning, or deceitful, are not conducive to good treatment and may promote abusive practices." Then it goes on to warn professionals, "In general, child maltreatment professionals should be skeptical of treatments that describe children in pejorative terms or that advocate aggressive techniques for breaking down children's defenses."
The Report also calls upon child-welfare professionals not to tolerate parenting behaviors that pretend to be therapeutic but are actually abusive:
"[W]ithholding food, water, or toilet access as punishment; exerting exaggerated levels of control over a child; restraining children as a treatment; or intentionally provoking out-of-control emotional distress should be evaluated as suspected abuse and handled accordingly."
In the body of the report, the analysis of AT is comprehensive and particular. The works of several leading lights of AT are cited as examples of the practices and/or beliefs that are eventually condemned. Thus, there is no doubt that the Task Force members were aware not only of AT practices, but also of the current rationalizations used by AT therapists and centers such as Foster Cline, Arthur Becker-Weidman, Nancy Thomas, Daniel Hughes, Gregory Keck, Keith Reber, Deborah Hage, Ronald Federici, the Cascade Center, and Colorado's Institute for Attachment and Child Development (IACD; previously the Attachment Center at Evergreen, or ACE).
The Task Force members who wrote the report - which appears in the current (February 2006) issue of the *Child Maltreatment* journal - included a representative of Attachment Therapists: Todd Nichols, MPA, the president of the Association for Treatment and Training in the Attachment of Children (ATTACh), the national trade organization for AT. As a result of his participation and lack of dissent from the report itself, ATTACh can no longer deny knowledge of the unprofessional and abusive nature of the practices of its founders and members. It will be significant whether the organization will embrace the report and police its members in accord with the report's recommendations. Any lesser response will unmask Attachment Therapists as more interested in perpetuating their mistaken beliefs and financial gain than in welfare of children.
http://http://cmx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/refs/11/1/76
Just figured ID share that... as that more or less invalidates everything Ive ever seen a program do with, or to a child :roll: The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
--Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President
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On 2006-01-22 10:43:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"AA, did you happen to catch where this pos(t)er claimed to be a "mental health professional"?
Must be some kind of joke.
"
In all fairness, the post says "health professional" not "mental health professional." That widens the field a bit, doesn't it?
Quite frankly, though, it does not surprise me that the same person who falls for the troubled teen industry scam would buy into the whole regression therapy, past life, alien abduction, recovered memories scam. I bet the pos(t)er could recommend a good psychic or astrologer, too.
Oh, and:
Wilderness and a therapeutic boarding school is a last resort, but when you have a kid who is running away, or staying out all night, or selling and using drugs, or is so promiscuous, or getting DUIs and might kill themselves...
What do they do, cut and paste this line?
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One of the saddest things about Program Parents is that they think what they're doing is okay because the other Program Parents in their support group tell them so. They think they're doing the most profound act of love because the other Program Parents in their support group tell them so.
No matter who you are or what you do, the other people who do it are almost always willing to tell you what a great guy or gal you are.
The Atlanta House of Prayer parents who beat their kids told each other the same things.
Enron execs almost certainly told each other the same things---why what they were doing was right.
NAMBLA tells their members the same things.
Al Qaeda tells their members the same things.
People can rationalize anything. People can rationalize truly monstrous things as morally obligatory and, "The only right thing to do!"
Read Dale Carnegie's _How to Win Friends and Influence People_. He says it nicely--that almost everyone alive or who has ever lived, from the guy next door to Hitler, thinks of himself as a good person who's doing the best he can do.
Including picking a "solution" that doesn't work, that's been proven not to work, just because they believe they've tried everything else and had it not work.
It's like using the rhythm method for contraception because you already tried condoms and the pill and a diaphragm and kept getting pregnant.
But hey, a Program *does* get the Program Parents' pain in the ass teen out of the house for long enough that the parents can keep him/her out of the house forever if the teen doesn't quit being a pain in the ass.
It solves the problem of having to live under the same roof with a pain in the ass teen---solves that problem overnight.
Feel (appropriately) bad about selfishly abandoning your responsibilities like that, just because the going got really tough? That's okay, we've got loads of parents just like you and if you all tell each other what great folks you are for doing this, pretty soon you won't even feel guilty anymore. Hey, and you're throwing so much cash at it that you can tell yourself you're spending the kid's college fund for the kid, instead of just to make your own home life tranquil.
Guilt money isn't pretty when divorced daddies or Lexus mommies lavish expensive toys and clothes and cars on the kid to make up for never spending any time with him/her. Guilt money doesn't get any prettier when it's paid to make the parents feel better about kicking their kid out of the house at fifteen.
Julie
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One of the saddest things about Program Parents is that they think what they're doing is okay because the other Program Parents in their support group tell them so. They think they're doing the most profound act of love because the other Program Parents in their support group tell them so.
Once again, spot on commentary, Julie.
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Life in Utopia
Greetings, Citizen!
You are a citizen of the far future. Your home is Alpha Complex. Humanity has advanced greatly since the bad old days of the 20th Century. There is no war. There is no famine. There is no disease. Alpha Complex is a utopia, run by a benevolent and omniscient computer. The Computer is your friend. The Computer provides for your needs. The Computer ensures that each and every citizen of Alpha Complex is happy. Failure to be happy is treason. Treason is punishable by summary execution. You are happy - aren't you?
We thought so.
You are a clone. According to legend, humans once reproduced by rutting, like vile animals. This is no longer true. Humans are grown in clone banks by The Computer. There is no longer any need for the messy randomness of love, romance and childbirth. The Computer makes certain that every human is genetically perfect in every respect.
See what love The Computer has for its citizens? The Computer is your friend. Trust The Computer
Each human is part of a clone family of six genetically-identical siblings. This is so that no one is ever lonely. Also, The Computer is well aware of the importance of making back-ups, in case of accidental loss or erasure. The Computer is wise. The Computer is benevolent. The Computer is your friend.
The Computer provides everything for the happy citizens of Alpha Complex. It provides food. It provides shelter. It provides entertainment. It provides challenging and meaningful work. It provides for the spiritual and psychological needs of each of its citizens. It exists to serve you.
But... Alpha Complex is at war. It has been at war for all of recorded history. There is constant danger of infiltration by the enemy. The enemy are the "Commies." Traitorous elements within Alpha Complex, such as mutants and secret societies, assist the Commies. These dangerous elements must be rooted out and destroyed. Enemies are everywhere! Stay alert! Trust no one! Keep your laser handy!
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http://www.bluemeat.com/paranoia/info.html (http://www.bluemeat.com/paranoia/info.html)
The Program is your friend. You know this because the Program tells you so. All students in the Program are happy. Failure to be happy is a Cat 4 offense. You are happy, aren't you? We thought so.
The Program has selected you to be a Level 2. Being a Level 2 is fun! You know this because the Program tells you so. It is your job as a Level 2 to report all the offenses of Level 1's or other Level 2's of which you become aware, including your own. Failure to report offenses is a Cat 4 offense. You know this because the Program tells you so.
The Program is your friend. Trust the Program.
Having secret thoughts of sadness is a Cat 4 offense. You have secret thoughts of sadness that you have not reported. Failure to report these secrets is a Cat 4 offense. This morning, you saw a Level 1 frowning. You are afraid that he saw you frowning. Perhaps if you report him before he reports you, the Program will believe you instead of him. You will gain approval from the Program for reporting his offenses and the offenses of others. You must only report true offenses--not that anyone can stop you from making a few up. Isn't this fun!
Level 1's and Level 3 and 4's, not to mention other Level 2's, will be eager to report you for any offenses you commit. Some of them will make a few offenses up to gain approval from the Program.
The Program is your friend.
Trust no one. Keep your laser handy.
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Isn't this fun?
Julie
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Wow... that takes me back, and not in a good way! I forgot how we all referred to ourselves by our 'progess' or level we were on, and who we could or could not associate with based on that. Not to mention the structure of the program is to pit students against one another. Not a fun time.
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you people need to stop chewing on your cum rags and grow up, please.
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On 2006-01-31 19:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you people need to stop chewing on your cum rags and grow up, please."
Well, well. Aren't we mature. :wstupid:
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On 2006-01-26 08:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://www.bluemeat.com/paranoia/info.html
The Program is your friend. You know this because the Program tells you so. All students in the Program are happy. Failure to be happy is a Cat 4 offense. You are happy, aren't you? We thought so.
The Program has selected you to be a Level 2. Being a Level 2 is fun! You know this because the Program tells you so. It is your job as a Level 2 to report all the offenses of Level 1's or other Level 2's of which you become aware, including your own. Failure to report offenses is a Cat 4 offense. You know this because the Program tells you so.
The Program is your friend. Trust the Program.
Having secret thoughts of sadness is a Cat 4 offense. You have secret thoughts of sadness that you have not reported. Failure to report these secrets is a Cat 4 offense. This morning, you saw a Level 1 frowning. You are afraid that he saw you frowning. Perhaps if you report him before he reports you, the Program will believe you instead of him. You will gain approval from the Program for reporting his offenses and the offenses of others. You must only report true offenses--not that anyone can stop you from making a few up. Isn't this fun!
Level 1's and Level 3 and 4's, not to mention other Level 2's, will be eager to report you for any offenses you commit. Some of them will make a few offenses up to gain approval from the Program.
The Program is your friend.
Trust no one. Keep your laser handy.
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Isn't this fun?
Julie"
Wow Jules, that was amazing. That took me there babes! I don't know how you did that, but that was intense!!! So true, so true! What's with the line "keep your laser handy"? I am just curious?
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If you are indeed a professional with knowledge about psychiatry - then you must be aware of the professional reports and studies that show "break em down - build em up" programs do not work at all. Tough love must not be synonomous with torture.
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Wow. I can't believe I missed this old thread's Paranoia references. As a Paranoia player I see the resemblances, some of which are damn strong, but strongly resent the comparison.
Paranoia is fun. Programs aren't.
Abusing Junior Citizens is TREASON, citizen.
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Post program suicide
RandomWalk
Member
Member # 3697
posted July 16, 2006 06:56 PM
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Mose- I am sorry to hear about that young man's death. I can imagine how much it has upset your daughter.
Unfortunately, even getting the best help possible for your teen might not be enough. One of my son's peers from his TBS killed himself the other day. My son is pretty disturbed about it. The boy completed the TBS program and was in college. This was a kid smart and clever enough to import drugs packed in peanut butter (hollowed out jars) to his prep boarding school in Ohio. He got kicked out and went to wilderness and the TBS. While at the TBS he revealed some truly horrible things that had happened to him as an adolescent that the parents didn't know about UNTIL the TBS stay. It is all so sad and I thank God every day that-for now- my kids are safe and healthy.
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Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2003 | Logged: 65.205.184.195 |
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... p=2#000025 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001253;p=2#000025)
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Yeah too bad the kid didn't get the help he needed, instead to be pushed through some prep school wannabe for profit bullshit. How many kids need to die before parents get it?
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Anybody interested in Carlbrook please visit the site http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121154957908461 (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121154957908461). It is a public facebook forum that discusses Carlbrook and in which people are not anonymous, thus seeks to eliminate some of the more colorful and less productive aspects trends that occur on this one. If anybody is interested in documenting what went on at Carlbrook and taking it beyond the internet (not necessarily to the courts but gaining more legitimacy for our concern) I am attempting to collect sworn affidavits about the events that went on that aim to capture the truth. If you have told the truth you can use the accounts you've already made on this site and have them notarized. It is relatively easy to do this at a bank. Collecting affidavits of what went on there is important because obviously the extreme level of discontent coupled with severity and volume of accusations merits at least some sort of review by a state agency, the courts, or a specialist in mediation/arbitration. Tell the truth and don't exaggerate in any affidavits or you will be subject to perjury. You are also potentially sacrificing anonymity. You can either post your account on the facebook website or you can send it to my e-mail, crobb@gwu.edu. I personally am glad that I went to Carlbrook in the long run. Less because of what Carlbrook did but because I did need a change of environment. There are good people there and it saddens me that their employment may be threatened by irresponsible and reckless decisions of their superiors. I do honestly believe every single person, aside from maybe one or two was convinced that they were helping us. However, this issue is bigger then whether you liked Carlbrook or the people there. This is about what is acceptable to do to people, no matter what they have done, against their will. This is about the type of breakdown that happens in many organizations that suffer from a closed, secretive management. There were several things that were unacceptable, regardless of your experience.
What was unacceptable was that Grant Price and others who ran groups and made explicitly "therapeutic decisions" has no formal training, education or certification to be providing mental health services (which is exactly what running a group therapy is doing). Carlbrook is not held to any standards in the provision of such services and that is a problem. There are a reason standards and regulations exist in this field (even if they have problems of their own). I think even those who cherished the experience realize that a lot of what went on was not OK and though intentions may not have been malicious by any party, kids were hurt and traumatized by the purposely constructed environment of acute stress and anxiety. Even if you could "take it" some couldn't. People are different. A one size fits all approach of breaking people down and building their identity back up may be useful in forming a cohesive military unit but it is not in treating kids for problems that in many instances are related to stress and anxiety in the first place. Creating an environment with the level of intensity and stress that Carlbrook did obviously will have different effects on different types of people. The degree of emotional invasiveness can also not be underestimated. Forcing people to disclose things they don't want to is simply unethical. Plain and simple. I see this as not an issue of whether or not you liked Carlbrook or certain people there. I see this as an issue of Carlbrook making egregious and harmful administrative errors and being held accountable like any other organization that provided you sub-standard services. If Johnson & Johnson sells defective Tylenol, like they did, they are held to account. Carlbrook purposely humiliated kids, engaged in arbitrary and bizarre punishment and the therapeutic relationships and incentives are certainly highly unethical if not illegal. I would like to know for certain if they are and what potential damage might have been inflicted. I would like to know if Carlbrook gave kids Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome which is a condition that worsens with age. I personally am not OK with so much of what went on at Carlbrook and think that a lack of accountability for past events or sweeping what happened "under the rug" would set a terrible precedent and would only encourage others to provide even worse services to kids. Carlbrook is attempting to legitimize and dilute a form of treatment that has been roundly rejected by medical professionals, the courts, and state agencies. Please join me in writing and notarizing an affidavit.