Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: LMJ630 on January 17, 2006, 09:31:00 AM
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Good morning,
I hope you all had a good long weekend!
The other forum on which I posted seems to have gotten a bit long, so I thought I would start a new one. Again, I'm looking for information about HLA. Other people have posted questions that apparently have not been answered. I have a few of my own.
The HLA website states, "most of our students struggle with issues of Oppositional Defiant Disorder." From what I have heard, this is not even a recognized diagnosis anymore. Do they have on-site professionals who evaluate and diagnose every child? Or do they just rely on the psychological profile that they are supposed to receive from the parents? What are the qualifications of these professionals, and of the consulting psychiatrist who visits weekly?
HLA seems to offer a lot of group counseling. Does anyone know the qualifications of the counselors? The website claims that they all have Masters degrees or higher, are clinically trained, and receive weekly supervision by Doctoral and licensed staff.
Does anyone know who developed the "elements of life" and on what they are based?
The website claims that all teachers hold degrees from the Bachelor to Doctorate level, and are state certified. Can this be confirmed? Are the special education teachers certified as such, and do they work with the parents and professionals who have diagnosed the learning disability to form an appropriate academic program?
"All of your child's incoming and outgoing mail will be read for appropriateness and content." Does this include e-mail? If so, how is a child supposed to report abuses? If this school is like others I have heard about, the people monitoring the mail will not allow derogatory information about the school to go out.
"Our students are not court-ordered to HLA and do not include violent or severely disturbed children." True?
I'm sorry this post is so long. I am also sorry if these questions have been answered in other forums. As I said, I haven't had time to scroll through the numerous posts. If anyone can help me out with these questions, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks! :smile:
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Here's the best set of answers I've seen to some of those questions.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =20#165362 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13453&forum=41&start=20#165362)
There's a "watch topic" feature to this forum. If you register a username w/ a valid email, you can have notification sent whenever someone makes a new post to a topic of interest to you. You don't have to make the email public or ever post or otherwise use the username. I, my husband and the geeks at my hosting provider and your ISP would be the only ones who would know, and we all have far more incentive to honor your privacy than not to.
Faith is the commitment of one's consciousness to beliefs for which one has no sensory evidence or rational proof. A mystic is a man who treats his feelings as tools of cognition. Faith is the equation of feeling with knowledge.
--Ayn Rand, Russian-born author
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I can tell you when I was there that there was no evaluation of any kind upon arrival to HLA. I doubt things have changed.
They state in their literature they need a recommendation from a psychologist, however they will accept in lieu of that a recommendation from simply an educational consultant. Someone who gets paid to refer kids to the schools.
I believe ODD is a real disorder, however kids there are not tested for it, it is just assumed as they walk in the door. The couselors there usually have a MA or less. However there is no evaluation period, every child is simply thrown into a peer group. There at least at my time was no consulting psychatrist who visited weekly.
The supervison they recieve is not what you think. All the peer group counselors get together and break confidentiality to talk about each inmate, nothing more.
The elements of life are based on some new age Indian nonsense that is forced on all the kids.
I do not know about the certification of the teachers.
Yes all mail in and out is screened, and no the child has no means of reporting abuses.
Yes there are court ordered students there despite what they might claim now. In my experience most who were came from very violent backrounds and not drug addictions like most of the others.
Hope this helps.
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On 2006-01-17 06:31:00, LMJ630 wrote:
"Good morning,
I hope you all had a good long weekend!
The other forum on which I posted seems to have gotten a bit long, so I thought I would start a new one. Again, I'm looking for information about HLA. Other people have posted questions that apparently have not been answered. I have a few of my own.
The HLA website states, "most of our students struggle with issues of Oppositional Defiant Disorder." From what I have heard, this is not even a recognized diagnosis anymore. Do they have on-site professionals who evaluate and diagnose every child? Or do they just rely on the psychological profile that they are supposed to receive from the parents? What are the qualifications of these professionals, and of the consulting psychiatrist who visits weekly?
HLA seems to offer a lot of group counseling. Does anyone know the qualifications of the counselors? The website claims that they all have Masters degrees or higher, are clinically trained, and receive weekly supervision by Doctoral and licensed staff.
Does anyone know who developed the "elements of life" and on what they are based?
The website claims that all teachers hold degrees from the Bachelor to Doctorate level, and are state certified. Can this be confirmed? Are the special education teachers certified as such, and do they work with the parents and professionals who have diagnosed the learning disability to form an appropriate academic program?
"All of your child's incoming and outgoing mail will be read for appropriateness and content." Does this include e-mail? If so, how is a child supposed to report abuses? If this school is like others I have heard about, the people monitoring the mail will not allow derogatory information about the school to go out.
"Our students are not court-ordered to HLA and do not include violent or severely disturbed children." True?
I'm sorry this post is so long. I am also sorry if these questions have been answered in other forums. As I said, I haven't had time to scroll through the numerous posts. If anyone can help me out with these questions, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks! :smile: "
These are good questions. I couldn't help but notice HLA Truth and her cronies didn't even take a shot at answering any of them. What a surprise. :roll:
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"
On 2006-01-17 06:31:00, LMJ630 wrote:
The HLA website states, "most of our students struggle with issues of Oppositional Defiant Disorder." From what I have heard, this is not even a recognized diagnosis anymore.
Just noticed this. I don't think that's 100% accurate. As I understand it, the psyche community still holds that ODD is a legit dx, but has been badly misunderstood and far too broadly applied. According to the manual (what's it called, DJ?) ODD may be indicated if the person is constantly pissing off and getting pissed off at all authority figures. According to the schoolpeople and the troubled parent industry, ODD is proven if the kid gets pissed off at any authority figure.
My opinion, and that of some others (how few or many, I don't know), is that it really is a bogus dx. A kid who's pissed at his parents my have assholes for parents. A kid who's pissed at the school system may have slipped through the cracks and educated himself just enough to understand how messed up the whole thing is. A kid who's pissed at the cops, same thing, maybe he just knows how they operate. Most kids who tend to get pissed off and stay that way tend to do so prior to developing the skills and competence to deal effectively with those issues that would, frankly, piss off anyone of good character and reasonable dignity.
But I'm not a shrink, far less among the cadre who get to write the definitions. So it's just my 'pinion.
When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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As I understand it, the psyche community still holds that ODD is a legit dx, but has been badly misunderstood and far too broadly applied. According to the manual (what's it called, DJ?)
It's called the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual).
The problem with "ODD" is that it is used as a "catch-all" by places like HLA to apply a dx to a kid who really has no psychiatric disorder at all.
If they fight with their parents, defy school authority, beat up their little brothers, etc., they are LABELED (not diagnosed, as HLA does no psychological testing whatsoever, but rather issues a "diagnosis" based on the parents' description of junior's behavior) "ODD" so that there is a "reason" for the parents to shell out the $7000.00 per month.
It's just a label applied to kids to justify extracting huge sums of money from the desperate parents.
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On 2006-02-02 05:48:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
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As I understand it, the psyche community still holds that ODD is a legit dx, but has been badly misunderstood and far too broadly applied. According to the manual (what's it called, DJ?)
It's called the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual).
The problem with "ODD" is that it is used as a "catch-all" by places like HLA to apply a dx to a kid who really has no psychiatric disorder at all.
If they fight with their parents, defy school authority, beat up their little brothers, etc., they are LABELED (not diagnosed, as HLA does no psychological testing whatsoever, but rather issues a "diagnosis" based on the parents' description of junior's behavior) "ODD" so that there is a "reason" for the parents to shell out the $7000.00 per month.
It's just a label applied to kids to justify extracting huge sums of money from the desperate parents.
"
Actually, HLA does an extensive ammount of testing now. They have a full time tester who has a Doctorate in Psychology (from an APA accredited universtity). I admit that they did not have a testing program established when you were employed at HLA over 10 years ago.
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On 2006-02-02 06:04:00, HLA Truth wrote:
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On 2006-02-02 05:48:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
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As I understand it, the psyche community still holds that ODD is a legit dx, but has been badly misunderstood and far too broadly applied. According to the manual (what's it called, DJ?)
It's called the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual).
The problem with "ODD" is that it is used as a "catch-all" by places like HLA to apply a dx to a kid who really has no psychiatric disorder at all.
If they fight with their parents, defy school authority, beat up their little brothers, etc., they are LABELED (not diagnosed, as HLA does no psychological testing whatsoever, but rather issues a "diagnosis" based on the parents' description of junior's behavior) "ODD" so that there is a "reason" for the parents to shell out the $7000.00 per month.
It's just a label applied to kids to justify extracting huge sums of money from the desperate parents.
"
Actually, HLA does an extensive ammount of testing now. They have a full time tester who has a Doctorate in Psychology (from an APA accredited universtity). I admit that they did not have a testing program established when you were employed at HLA over 10 years ago."
Really now? Why is it that every single kid who has been incarcerated there says they were never tested by anyone at any time?
What is the doctor's name? What university? How long has he worked there? Or, is this just a figment of your imagination?
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Admissions Procedures:
The students enrolled at Hidden Lake Academy are categorized as having Oppositional Defiant Disorder. This has been previously diagnosed by a psychiatrist or psychologist or the criteria for this diagnosis must have been met, as determined by a counselor or consultant.
HLA "Truth," this is exerpted from your employer's website. It clearly states that a previous diagnosis by a mental health professional OR the opinion of a counselor or Ed Con is sufficient "diagnosis" of ODD.
Can you explain how a counselor's or Ed Con's opinion, in the absence of a pych test battery, can be considered a valid diagnosis of ODD?
I also didn't see anything about an in-house doctor performing any testing.
My question: Which source is lying, your website or you? False marketing or false statements?
You and your employer have just about ZERO credibility. It seems your business and program are both run by the "smoke and mirrors" plan.
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While you're here, can you please address the points in this post.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#169620 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13498&forum=41&start=0#169620)
I see you avoided them altogether once more.
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On 2006-02-02 07:50:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
Admissions Procedures:
The students enrolled at Hidden Lake Academy are categorized as having Oppositional Defiant Disorder. This has been previously diagnosed by a psychiatrist or psychologist or the criteria for this diagnosis must have been met, as determined by a counselor or consultant.
HLA "Truth," this is exerpted from your employer's website. It clearly states that a previous diagnosis by a mental health professional OR the opinion of a counselor or Ed Con is sufficient "diagnosis" of ODD.
Can you explain how a counselor's or Ed Con's opinion, in the absence of a pych test battery, can be considered a valid diagnosis of ODD?
I also didn't see anything about an in-house doctor performing any testing.
My question: Which source is lying, your website or you? False marketing or false statements?
You and your employer have just about ZERO credibility. It seems your business and program are both run by the "smoke and mirrors" plan.
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Dr. Brad Carpenter is his name. He is on the website. All he does is testing.
A lot of Ed Cons do testing or have it done by other professionals who are qualified to do it.
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How about when HLA relies on the opinion of a counselor for diagnosis? The website clearly states that this is acceptable. It also jives with the experiences of many people in that they were told upon a very limited interview, not after testing, that their kid was ODD. In your opinion, this is responsible and professional?
Are you saying that the Ed Cons that refer to HLA are possessed of advanced clinical credentials? I know of many who are not. Yet, you say it is acceptable for an Ed Con to diagnose a patient? How is that?
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Dr. Brad Carpenter is his name. He is on the website. All he does is testing.
Well, this is not quite true. He is employed elsewhere on a full-time basis. Since he has another full time job, when is he available for testing at HLA?
Does he test every patient?
Are there patients who have never been tested?
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On 2006-02-02 08:02:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"While you're here, can you please address the points in this post.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#169620 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13498&forum=41&start=0#169620)
I see you avoided them altogether once more.
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You missed these important questions again, "Truth." Maybe you can get around to answering at some point? Are you purposefully avoiding answering, or are you just overlooking the half dozen posts asking you to answer?
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On 2006-02-02 08:42:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
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Dr. Brad Carpenter is his name. He is on the website. All he does is testing.
Well, this is not quite true. He is employed elsewhere on a full-time basis. Since he has another full time job, when is he available for testing at HLA?
Does he test every patient?
Are there patients who have never been tested?
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Where else is he employed?
No. He does not test every student.
BTW...What test would you perform to determine if a student is ODD?
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Where else is he employed?
NGSCU
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China Town.
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What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?
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On 2006-02-02 09:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
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Where else is he employed?
NGSCU"
Your right. He teaches some classes over there. He is very smart and very good at what he does. HLA is fortunate to have someone of that quality.
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BTW...What test would you perform to determine if a student is ODD?
Typically a patient needs to be interviewed and his or her medical history must be reviewed as well. Testing for ODD is not usually done, however testing to rule out other disorders MUST be done to achieve a differential diagnosis. The patient MUST be evaluated for mood disorders, psychosis or other phenomena, as ODD can ONLY be diagnosed in the absence of mood disturbances. So, it stands to reason that ALL of your patients should be tested.
Additionally, ODD is overwhelmingly (85% or more cases) a diagnosis of children under age 10. This leads me to believe, along with the fact that HLA does not test patients for mood disorders, etc. in the course of making an ODD diagnosis, that the label of ODD is being incorrectly applied to teenage patients for the sole purpose of making money.
It is very disturbing that your practices don't correlate with mainstream professional thinking and conduct on the matter of ODD.
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On 2006-02-02 09:48:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
This leads me to believe, along with the fact that HLA does not test patients for mood disorders, etc. in the course of making an ODD diagnosis, that the label of ODD is being incorrectly applied to teenage patients for the sole purpose of making money.
Sole purpose? I don't think so. No doubt, there's a huge pile of money involved. But I never did think that was the primary force driving the industry. If you just want to rook a lot of people out of a lot of money, there are a million different and better ways to do it. Anything from timeshare scams to pyramid marketing would do the trick and you wouldn't have to mess w/ kids heads and families to do it.
No, the driving force behind this industry is something much worse than good old green backs. It's misguided altruism. At the bottom of it, they hate kids. They trot out a perfectly clinical sounding bit of lingo to try to justify their hatred. But, at the end of the day, they just hate kids; especially those who dare to criticize them.
There is nothing on earth intended for innocent people so horrible as a school. To begin with, it is a prison. But it is in some respects more cruel than a prison. In a prison, for instance, you are not forced to read books written by the wardens...School was to me a sentence of penal servitude.
--George Bernard Shaw
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Eudora, I absolutely agree. Although I don't think most of them realize that they hate kids, or they convince themselves that they don't; otherwise, how could they live with themselves? (Maybe I just don't want to believe that they are that unconscionable. Maybe some of them are.)
I just don't understand how Len Buccellato, who is highly touted and, some people say, a good person, can just turn his back on what is happening at his school. There is no way he doesn't know what is happening.
HLA Truth, I'm not sure if this has already been answered somewhere else, but I am wondering in what capacity you serve HLA. Teacher, counselor, other staff?
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Was HLA really that bad? Come on guys, next topic. :roll:
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On 2006-02-02 09:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?"
Huh?? Answer the question!
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LMJ630 asked:
HLA Truth, I'm not sure if this has already been answered somewhere else, but I am wondering in what capacity you serve HLA. Teacher, counselor, other staff?
I just don't feel like this is too much to ask of someone who puts herself out as an expert on the subject of treatment.
You've been asked numerous times, politely, I might add, to answer this simple question. You asked me my credentials and I let you know without hesitation. What's the big deal?
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On 2006-02-02 06:04:00, HLA Truth wrote:
"
On 2006-02-02 05:48:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
As I understand it, the psyche community still holds that ODD is a legit dx, but has been badly misunderstood and far too broadly applied. According to the manual (what's it called, DJ?)
It's called the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual).
The problem with "ODD" is that it is used as a "catch-all" by places like HLA to apply a dx to a kid who really has no psychiatric disorder at all.
If they fight with their parents, defy school authority, beat up their little brothers, etc., they are LABELED (not diagnosed, as HLA does no psychological testing whatsoever, but rather issues a "diagnosis" based on the parents' description of junior's behavior) "ODD" so that there is a "reason" for the parents to shell out the $7000.00 per month.
It's just a label applied to kids to justify extracting huge sums of money from the desperate parents.
"
Actually, HLA does an extensive ammount of testing now. They have a full time tester who has a Doctorate in Psychology (from an APA accredited universtity). I admit that they did not have a testing program established when you were employed at HLA over 10 years ago."
I was there long after Dysfunction and I was never tested.
When are you going to answer the questions put to you?
Its not like its a test right?
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My son was not pre-evaluated. He was dx'd on the spot by staff. I asked what they based the dx on to which they replied, "His father's complaints". According to his father, he had 5 of the 6 'symptoms' of ODD. What a crock.
Now, how many traditional boarding schools are in the business of dx'ing potential 'problem' students? Technically speaking, if a facility is providing that service, wouldn't they indeed fall into the RTC catagory?
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This site is a bunch of B.S ..
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Yeh? Well, you do have the option of staying over at the Hyde forum. We won't miss you.