Fornits
Announcements & Tech Support => Web forum hosting => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 04, 2006, 10:36:00 AM
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Copy this thread to your desktop, it might get deleted soon.
Watch and see what fornits is really all about now. Ginger deleted the thread I put up last night drawing attention to the fact that the new Google ads on fornits ADVERTISE FOR CHILD ABUSE.
This is becoming more and more disturbing. Last night I put up a thread linking to the Web Forum Hosting forum here on fornits, which you can get to by clicking on FORUMS over there on the left, then scrolling most of the way down the list of forums. I called into question the fact that fornits now gets money to advertise for child abusers. There were ads up last night on the WWASPS forum for Spring Creek Lodge, which is a child abuse facility on ISAC's Watch List, and strugglingteens.com, a website that pushes all kinds of abusive facilities on parents. There was an ad for a 12-Step program somewhere else, despite the fact that Straight has been characterized by some cult experts as being a "12-Step Cult".
Somehow Ginger thinks this is all okay. Again, watch, this thread will be deleted or moved. Yet, it contains no slander, just facts.
How do you like that? Fornits advertises for child abuse. Ginger and Bill Warbis get paid to run ads for child abusers. Ginger hides the discussion down on another forum. I think this subject should be front and center.
Dare ya, G. Leave this topic up in your Straight, Inc. forum. Dragonfly tried to get people here talking about it a few days ago. Quit hiding threads.
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She's not hiding threads you twit. She very plainly and obviously said she was moving the thread to Web Forum Hosting as that is where it belongs. She's also invited discussion on the subject. If you've read anything of what she's posted on there you'll see that she's not dead set on it, she's trying it out and has explained why she doesn't think it will be harmful. Can you imagine parents seeing a WWASPS site after visiting here? I can't see where that would be helpful to WWASPS or any of the other facilities.
Cut her some slack man. She said she's trying it. Damn, you've just been sitting here waiting for something like this, haven't you?
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Besides, if they found Fornits by searching for help for their teen then they've already seen the program sites and it can only serve to be detrimental to WWASPS et al to have read things here and THEN go to WWASPS sites, IMO.
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i don't see what you mean. where is there a wwasp link on this site? i don't see one. i don't see anything like that.
if you're so gung-ho, why don't you send ginger and bill some cash donations to keep this board alive. they pay for it to be here. you don't.
open up that squeaky wallet and make a donation to keep the site free of ads. encourage your buddies to do the same.
even more than that, bring a level-headed response to the discussion. ranting and raving and calling them child abuse supporters is just dumb. we all know their feelings about it. just show the links you claim to be there and maybe some responsible feedback or a cash donation would change things.
that being said, i never saw any of the links you're claiming are here.
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if you go into the Troubled Teen forum at the top of the page there are Google ads on a thin banner. Some of them link to Struggling Teens etc. I don't have a problem with it because as I said, they've already seen those if they're seeking help/advice. If they find them after reading here, I don't see how that can be of any help to WWASPS etc.
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Dragonfly, paranoia or prescience? I've wondered the same thing about a lot of ppl I've met in connection w/ this issue. It's a tough question. We know psyops exists. But do we really rate that level of attention?
Maybe, maybe not.
Then I ask meyself how could a former Straightling ever get involved in such a diabolical plot. "Are you shittin' me, self!", I heard myself shriek, "no better recruiting ground I know of for just that brand of lunatic!"
But I just won't let anybody recruit me for their campaign, that's all. And I've sort of come to the conclusion that everybody who's doing anything to try and sabotage somebody else's idea of "the cause" is probably acting honestly from motives they believe in. And it's more often ineptitude or misunderstanding that gets in the way.
But it doesn't really get in the way of solving the problem. Not like you might think. It only gets in the way of all of us being decent and civil to each other. The story is getting out there, warts and all.
I really and truely believe that those ads in this context are, not only counterproductive, but also may be helpful in directing more shopper traffic here before the land up on a program marketing site. But there's only one way to find out, try it!
As far as trusting me or you or anyone else? Don't trust strangers. Get to know ppl. I've made friends over the years w/ some pretty cool people around here. But they're very cool people who just happen to share an interest in these topics. Not everybody here is cool and not all cool people post to Fornits. It's practically irelavent on that score.
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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On 2006-01-04 08:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
if you're so gung-ho, why don't you send ginger and bill some cash donations to keep this board alive. they pay for it to be here. you don't.
Oh no, it's not like that. The great bonanza has amounted to all of about $35 so far, and I won't see any of that till about a month after my balance reaches $100. I have to say, it was looking too good to be true there at first. But the market very, very quickly started to respond. See, very few advertisers really want their ads in this sort of context. So far, it looks like softwear companies (especially phpBB) don't mind. People selling term papers are cool with it. But the big payors, the industry, seem to be weeding fornits out of their allowed context pretty quickly.
Now, I don't have access to a list of advertisers that have banned me. All I can do is check from time to time to see which ads turn up and check my CPM rates (Cost [to advertisers] per thousand impressions). So far, the ppl who pay, on average, $2.47 per impression are opting out and those who are only willing to pay about .08 are hanging on.
One notable exceptions is CEDU, which is in dissaray at the moment and probably hasn't got the staffing to deal w/ minutea right now.
I'm cool w/ that. At this rate, it may offset just about exactly the bandwidth charges that this forum runs up each month. And I have some confirmation that the industry ads that may remain here are only here by oversite and are likely not helping the advertiser.
who needs regular piss tests more than a former blowski who has his finger on the button?
--Chuck Beyer
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I wondered about that. The first two days that the ads were up there were all kinds of 'teen help', 'troubled teen', 'troubled children' (chicken :smile: ). Now they only show up in a few of the fora or threads.
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On 2006-01-04 07:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
Somehow Ginger thinks this is all okay. Again, watch, this thread will be deleted or moved. Yet, it contains no slander, just facts.
Somehow you think you're my daddy or something? Can't you find a better hobby than following me around trying to control what I do and say?
And the anon is right. I haven't deleted any threads. I MOVED one or two over to the Web Forum Hosting forum (on topic) AND left posts w/ the same topic containing links to the moved threads.
The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker
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Besides, if they found Fornits by searching for help for their teen then they've already seen the program sites and it can only serve to be detrimental to WWASPS et al to have read things here and THEN go to WWASPS sites, IMO.
Not necessarily. People see and read what they want to see and read. Many people prefer a more structured environment than a forum when scanning online info, and an ad bar could conceivably lure a potential parent client away from the forum in seconds, regardless of titles of posted topics.
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Oops. Did I just see those ads, or did I unthink them?
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All gone for now!
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By the way, I'm not the same anon that started this thread. One cannot read Ginger's threads without concluded that she is the real thing. But I do find a Google bar with teen boot camp links problematic. Without getting angry with me about finances, Ginger, could you explain them to me and others who might feel the same way?
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =1&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&topic=13242&forum=1&start=0)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=1&5 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13239&forum=1&5)
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Thanks. I hadn't followed the previous thread on this topic too closely. Ginger's explanation is adequate and tends to alleviate most of my concerns about potential parent clients of abusive facilites skipping the threads and going directly to the Google bar. Also I now believe that most people would naturally scan the info below the bar first.
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In case nobody's noticed the VAST MAJORITY of those ads are already gone. Seems WWASPS etc. feel the need to control any and all info. Ginger was right.
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On 2006-01-04 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"By the way, I'm not the same anon that started this thread. One cannot read Ginger's threads without concluded that she is the real thing.
Why thank you!
But I do find a Google bar with teen boot camp links problematic. Without getting angry with me about finances, Ginger, could you explain them to me and others who might feel the same way? "
Yeah, I'm trying to. I used to work in a factory that printed massive quantities of Rebock tshirts. So there I was for 8 hours a day pulling 14 identical cheap assed tshirts off of a conveyor belt, folding them in dozens and packing them 4 dozen to a box. Every identical tshirt proclaimed, in bold colors, the good advice "UBU!"
I thought it would be better and more valuable to have one that was different. So, one evening, I got what I wanted. The dude at the other end of the oven used a pretty nice quality sweat w/ an attractive but out of spec design on it to clean the press. I think it was just printed on the back instead of the front, but otherwise just right. So the front came out w/ that same familiar "UBU" logo, only in radically different colors on a "wrong" color sweat w/ all the lint spots and color runs that come from cleaning.
I snagged it. My boss tried to talk me out of wearing it. Said they could lose the contract over trademark infringement and quality assurance and shit. I just asked him who he thought might actually see me wearing it? I only ever went to work, the day care, the grocery store... no time or money to go see and be seen in those chic joints where he hung out (owner's son, ya' know)
He relented.
In a nutshell, I don't think this industry can benefit from ads in this context any more than they'd benefit from ads in High Times. And I'm ready to try it and find out 1) if I'm right about that and 2) what sort of discussion and insight might arise from ppl finding friggin google ads on Fornits.
so long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?
--stephen Hawking, English scientist
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In a nutshell, I don't think this industry can benefit from ads in this context any more than they'd benefit from ads in High Times. And I'm ready to try it and find out 1) if I'm right about that and 2) what sort of discussion and insight might arise from ppl finding friggin google ads on Fornits.
This is a reasonable explanation. But how can you gauge whether or not the industry is benefiting? Many people take forums with a grain of salt. I find them dizzying and unhelpful when trying to acquire info about a product or a service. Besides, is it worth losing a single parent to the ad banner? I'm referring to a parent who could find the forum, glance at its content with an unimpressed shrug, and then go directly to the banner links. It's an unlikely, but not inconceivable, scenario.
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On 2006-01-04 12:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" In case nobody's noticed the VAST MAJORITY of those ads are already gone. Seems WWASPS etc. feel the need to control any and all info. Ginger was right."
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So far, the ppl who pay, on average, $2.47 per impression are opting out and those who are only willing to pay about .08 are hanging on.
WHOAH! That's some pricey advertising. I wish we could find out how much WWASP and other notorious advertisers (kidnappers aka escorts) pay and start clicking their highest price ads. I spend a lot of time at my computer, and don't mind clicking an ad over and over while tokin' a nice afternoon bowl. I know these people warship money, so mine as well hit 'em where it hurts! :smokin:
(http://http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/economics/faculty/jpalmer/Eco020/Images020/kidflipoff.JPG)
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On 2006-01-04 13:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
This is a reasonable explanation. But how can you gauge whether or not the industry is benefiting?
Oh, check out the adwords (for advertisers) side of the first link in each set (anchored on the term "Ads by google" *)
The advertisers get to block their ads (one ad camaign at a time) from appearing in pages they don't want them to appear in. So far, it looks like the bigger players are opting out of my generous offer to advertise for them. But here's the funny part. For years now they've encouraged parents and other toughlove hategroup members to buy these ads and just leave them laying around somewhere. I'm guessing they actually have no control over all the flyers they've left fluttering around the byways of Cyberia. I think they'll block all they can from showing up here. I'll know it by watching which ads quit showing up. And, if it goes the way I think it will, I'll take great satisfaction in skimming just a few bucks here and there from those too lazy or disorganized to notice where their advertising dolars are going.
So far, though, it looks like the fine folks at SourceForge are my biggest benefactors in most pages, except for Let It Bleed which is drawing a bunch of non-profit ads for drug policy reform groups.
*You have to dig for it a bit. Unless this link expires, here's the direct route to that info
https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/ ... tx=sibling (https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13249&ctx=sibling)
Many people take forums with a grain of salt. I find them dizzying and unhelpful when trying to acquire info about a product or a service. Besides, is it worth losing a single parent to the ad banner? I'm referring to a parent who could find the forum, glance at its content with an unimpressed shrug, and then go directly to the banner links. It's an unlikely, but not inconceivable, scenario.
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I am married, not Buried !
-- Steve Webb
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On 2006-01-04 13:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
This is a reasonable explanation. But how can you gauge whether or not the industry is benefiting?
Oh, check out the adwords (for advertisers) side of the first link in each set (anchored on the term "Ads by google" *)
The advertisers get to block their ads (one ad camaign at a time) from appearing in pages they don't want them to appear in. So far, it looks like the bigger players are opting out of my generous offer to advertise for them. But here's the funny part. For years now they've encouraged parents and other toughlove hategroup members to buy these ads and just leave them laying around somewhere. I'm guessing they actually have no control over all the flyers they've left fluttering around the byways of Cyberia. I think they'll block all they can from showing up here. I'll know it by watching which ads quit showing up. And, if it goes the way I think it will, I'll take great satisfaction in skimming just a few bucks here and there from those too lazy or disorganized to notice where their advertising dolars are going.
So far, though, it looks like the fine folks at SourceForge are my biggest benefactors in most pages, except for Let It Bleed which is drawing a bunch of non-profit ads for drug policy reform groups.
*You have to dig for it a bit. Unless this link expires, here's the direct route to that info
https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/ ... tx=sibling (https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13249&ctx=sibling)
Many people take forums with a grain of salt. I find them dizzying and unhelpful when trying to acquire info about a product or a service. Besides, is it worth losing a single parent to the ad banner? I'm referring to a parent who could find the forum, glance at its content with an unimpressed shrug, and then go directly to the banner links. It's an unlikely, but not inconceivable, scenario.
"
A vote for GW is a vote for America's Führer.
--Anonymous (it's best that way...)
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The only boot camp ads I see anymore are in THE TROUBLED TEEN INDUSTRY forum. Ya know, the programs would probably benefit by leaving their ads. Do you think they remove them just because they don't want to pay the now infamous Antigen any of their money? Could it be spite? Or is this common or what. You'd think that this is the perfect 'context' for them.
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On 2006-01-04 14:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
Could it be spite? Or is this common or what.
Oh, I doubt it. If the ads are payin', they'll continue w/ it. If they're not, they won't.All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William Kingdon Clifford
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A vote for GW is a vote for America's Führer.
--Anonymous (it's best that way...)
Since I'm not sure I follow this, I?ll give you an example of how I think the ads could benefit the industry. (It's tedious and perhaps simplistic for someone with your technical acumen, but I'm your typical layperson surfer and have to think in those terms.)
1. Parent X hears about WWASPS from a friend.
2. Parent does a Google search on WWASPS.
3. Parent notices first positive hit wwasps.org and browses there.
4. Parent skips over or willfully ignores those hits that are negative towards WWASPS.
5. Parent goes to page 2 of hits.
6. Parent scrolls down.
7. Parent, at this point, is already sick of searching for more info on WWASPS.
8. Parent scrolls down page 2 to fornits.com.
(This is a parent suffering from confirmation bias. Perhaps friend of parent X has convinced him or her of the helpfulness of WWASPS or has managed to debunk the debunkers. In any case, our parent X is not looking for negative info on WWASPS.)
9. On page 2, our parent sees only on the fornits.com hit "You might also want to note that WWASPS does not pay educational consultants to refer to them, so they have plenty of reason to say negative things. ... and then proceeds to click on the page.
10. Parent doesn't care about the forum, but is drawn to the ad banner at the top.
11. The ad banner facilitates parent X's search with links that he or she was originally unaware of.
12. Parent finds a facility that interests him or her.
13. Parent leaves fornits.com and is ready to put his or her child into a facility found on fornits.com.
A lot of folks are rapid, ADD surfers like our parent X. Remember also that people often ignore negative info about products or services. You might think that parent X should be able to see all the bad publicity jumping out at him or her. But many desperate parents don?t want to hear about it. Think about the warning signs that our own parents ignored.
Of course, this could all be redundant if what you say about the advertisers comes true.
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I was FINALLY able to click through to an actual WWASP ad. I couldn't even tell it was a WWASP one until I did a WHOIS.
http://troubled-teenagers.org/index.php ... nt+academy (http://troubled-teenagers.org/index.php?ticgl=eagle+point+academy)
the info:
Registrant:
Registered through:
Jake Peart
Teens In Crisis
171 S. Main
Hurricane, UT 84737
US eNom, Inc.
Domain Name: TROUBLED-TEENAGERS.ORG
Created on: 29-Jun-2002 19:49:12 UTC
Expires on: 29-Jun-2006 19:54:33 UTC
Last Updated on: 31-Oct-2005 05:54:29 UTC
Administrative Contact:
Technical Contact:
Jake Peart
Teens In Crisis
support@2helpteens.com (http://mailto:support@2helpteens.com)
171 S. Main St.
Hurricane, UT 84737
US
+1.8002503966
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ya know aftre seeing some of these ads.. i cant believe parents fall for this bullshit. who are these people anyways? employees or independent contractors.. wonder if they let just anybody bring in the business and collect a fee. this shit is all over the web. its interesting wwasp is trying to hide who they are now, they werent doing that a few years ago. picking a name like WWASP was very appropriate.
im thinking about calling them and playing along like I have a kid who's just a normal teenager and obviously shouldnt be sent away and see what they say. BTW what are the rules on recording calls so we can upload em to the web and get a good laugh.. always wondered. people upload prank calls all the time it seems. :smokin:
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On 2006-01-04 14:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
Of course, this could all be redundant if what you say about the advertisers comes true.
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already has.
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Well, "teen boot camps" is gone, but a few others remain. I guess I need a hit.
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On 2006-01-04 14:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was FINALLY able to click through to an actual WWASP ad. I couldn't even tell it was a WWASP one until I did a WHOIS.
http://troubled-teenagers.org/index.php ... nt+academy (http://troubled-teenagers.org/index.php?ticgl=eagle+point+academy)
the info:
Registrant:
Registered through:
Jake Peart
Teens In Crisis
171 S. Main
Hurricane, UT 84737
US eNom, Inc.
Domain Name: TROUBLED-TEENAGERS.ORG
Created on: 29-Jun-2002 19:49:12 UTC
Expires on: 29-Jun-2006 19:54:33 UTC
Last Updated on: 31-Oct-2005 05:54:29 UTC
Administrative Contact:
Technical Contact:
Jake Peart
Teens In Crisis
support@2helpteens.com (http://mailto:support@2helpteens.com)
171 S. Main St.
Hurricane, UT 84737
US
+1.8002503966
---
ya know aftre seeing some of these ads.. i cant believe parents fall for this bullshit. who are these people anyways? employees or independent contractors.. wonder if they let just anybody bring in the business and collect a fee. this shit is all over the web. its interesting wwasp is trying to hide who they are now, they werent doing that a few years ago. picking a name like WWASP was very appropriate.
im thinking about calling them and playing along like I have a kid who's just a normal teenager and obviously shouldnt be sent away and see what they say. BTW what are the rules on recording calls so we can upload em to the web and get a good laugh.. always wondered. people upload prank calls all the time it seems. :smokin: "
as long as one party knows it's being taped it's perfectly legal. a third party taping calls of two other parties is illegal.
you should do it. it would make for good evidence of fraud for a court case, 'cause you know they will reccommend treatment.
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On 2006-01-04 14:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
" A vote for GW is a vote for America's Führer.
--Anonymous (it's best that way...)
Since I'm not sure I follow this, I?ll give you an example of how I think the ads could benefit the industry. (It's tedious and perhaps simplistic for someone with your technical acumen, but I'm your typical layperson surfer and have to think in those terms.)
1. Parent X hears about WWASPS from a friend.
2. Parent does a Google search on WWASPS.
3. Parent notices first positive hit wwasps.org and browses there.
4. Parent skips over or willfully ignores those hits that are negative towards WWASPS.
5. Parent goes to page 2 of hits.
6. Parent scrolls down.
7. Parent, at this point, is already sick of searching for more info on WWASPS.
8. Parent scrolls down page 2 to fornits.com.
(This is a parent suffering from confirmation bias. Perhaps friend of parent X has convinced him or her of the helpfulness of WWASPS or has managed to debunk the debunkers. In any case, our parent X is not looking for negative info on WWASPS.)
9. On page 2, our parent sees only on the fornits.com hit "You might also want to note that WWASPS does not pay educational consultants to refer to them, so they have plenty of reason to say negative things. ... and then proceeds to click on the page.
10. Parent doesn't care about the forum, but is drawn to the ad banner at the top.
11. The ad banner facilitates parent X's search with links that he or she was originally unaware of.
12. Parent finds a facility that interests him or her.
13. Parent leaves fornits.com and is ready to put his or her child into a facility found on fornits.com.
A lot of folks are rapid, ADD surfers like our parent X. Remember also that people often ignore negative info about products or services. You might think that parent X should be able to see all the bad publicity jumping out at him or her. But many desperate parents don?t want to hear about it. Think about the warning signs that our own parents ignored.
Of course, this could all be redundant if what you say about the advertisers comes true.
"
Yeah - Its human nature, not a character flaw. Take a kid who wants to find out about Marijuana. Do a quick google search and a few of the top hits discuss the latest scientific findings, addiction and the negative effects on the brain. The kid will skip right past this negative stuff and click on YaHooka or southAmericagold. Do you really think the kid is going to sit and read a bunch of negative stuff when he is searching for something good?
Same with schools, programs, RTC's etc.
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im thinking about calling them and playing along like I have a kid who's just a normal teenager and obviously shouldnt be sent away and see what they say. BTW what are the rules on recording calls so we can upload em to the web and get a good laugh.. always wondered. people upload prank calls all the time it seems. :smokin: "
Please do that, I would find it very entertaining! I'm sure we all would!!!
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On 2006-01-04 14:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
im thinking about calling them and playing along like I have a kid who's just a normal teenager and obviously shouldnt be sent away and see what they say.
I would encourage anyone who just can't believe the program ppl really think and act as we say they do to do this. If anybody wants to send a long an mp3 of such calls, I'd be happy to put them on the server for all to hear....to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason
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If I was technically savvy I would for sure! I already had all of the literature from Cross Creek mailed to me a couple months back. I didn't find the picture of me dangling out of the upper floor of the manor by a vacuum cord though???? :lol:
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It is so fucking unreal and unbelievable that this thread has gotten all kinds of responses supporting Ginger and the FACT that she did make and will make money off advertising for child abuse. Are you people in a cult? Can you not think outside of fornits? This is getting bizarre. You think it is okay to advertise for child abuse? Is this April Fool's day, or just a bunch of fools? How is it that Ginger can justify leaving the most vile slander up on the public internet? She believes that the slander put here on Luke Riffle is what killed his film funding, but she won't take the vile slander off the public internet. This is not a survivors' or veterans' forum, it is Ginger Warbis' forum, run on zero common sense, plenty of inconsistency, and downright cruel ignorance of basic human decency. You want to tell me Ginger does not believe in censorship? Keep your eyes open, she deletes what she wants to delete. She lies about not "peeking" at anonymous IP addresses. She lies about not telling who anonymous postors are. This forum is not run by any high principles. It is run inconsistently, chaotically and unethically by the Warbis' for the purposes of recreating child abuse so everyone can look at it. You think I am making a false accusation here? Ginger, why don't you tell us how glad you are when people get way out of line, because then, at the expense of survivors who are getting reabused, everyone can see how crazy the programs make us. A dubious end result, since it's not like anyone in any kind of powerful position to shut down currently operational programs comes around here, and it is really rather silly to think that even if they did they would draw the conclusion you think they would draw.
Fact is, Ginger, you set this shit up, and survivors seeking memory and conversation of history get abused and reabused because you have no political sensibility on what happens here and what you created with your dubious and, again, inconsistent and therefore bogus set of ethics by which you decide what to delete.
I for one am sick of your sense of ownership of fornits. Power corrupts. Maybe you should just fucking donate the server space instead of acting like you are so generous when what you really are is so despotic. I'll fucking pay you, I will send you money every month just to NOT run fornits.
How many times does poor Sammie have to get sacrificed, or Luke Riffle?
In closing, my kindest advice to the Warbis's is to shut down fornits and take a vacation. See the world. See the signs in Rwanda reminding people about hate speech. You're god damn right hate speech is censored, sometimes only after an immense tragedy.
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Then why do you keep coming back? Didn't you say a few days ago that you were going to start you own forum and even ask Ginger's assistance in that endeavor? Do it man, do it! :grin:
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I find it hysterical that every time you click on one of those ads, in effect the teen industry has to pay Ginger. This is absolutely a nightmare for the teen hurt industry, to be advertising their wares here. It is like advertising freshly slaughtered meat on a vegetarian forum.
Click...click...click.
Have they convinced you yet to place your kid there?
Click...click...click.
Anyone seriously think there advertising is going to cause one of us to think..."hey, maybe I will send my kid to Jamaica...the online brochure says it is warm and sunny and a great place to be a teen!".
Puleease!
You wanna hurt them where it counts? Animals,you got some time on your hands... click the link 5000 times!
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Awww, what's the matter? Poor baby put up his whining and ranting and nobody agreed with him? :cry2: Life's a bitch, ain't it? :lol:
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Fornits is not a RIGHT, it's a PRIVELAGE!
if ya ain't happy start your own!!
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On 2006-01-05 07:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Then why do you keep coming back? Didn't you say a few days ago that you were going to start you own forum and even ask Ginger's assistance in that endeavor? Do it man, do it! :wstupid:
I was wondering if you could assist me or point me in the right direction to begin the creation of my own survivors blog site for Straight survivors please."
Have you started it yet?
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What is homogenous slander?
Is it like homogonized milk, all stirred up and frothy, and gives you a tummy ache?
:lol: :lol:
-
On 2006-01-05 06:58:00, Anonymous -Brian-animals wrote...
Fact is, Ginger, you set this shit up, and survivors seeking memory and conversation of history get abused and reabused because you have no political sensibility on what happens here and what you created with your dubious and, again, inconsistent and therefore bogus set of ethics by which you decide what to delete.
Turn.Your.Computer.Off.If.You.Don't.Like.It.
Choice # 2
Browse.Porn.instead.
-
On 2006-01-05 09:07:00, GregFL wrote:
On 2006-01-05 06:58:00, Anonymous -Brian-animals wrote...
:nworthy: :nworthy: :lol:
-
Choice # 2
Browse.Porn.instead.
That should be choice number 1.
-
How is it that Ginger can justify leaving the most vile slander up on the public internet? She believes that the slander put here on Luke Riffle is what killed his film funding, but she won't take the vile slander off the public internet. This is not a survivors' or veterans' forum, it is Ginger Warbis' forum, run on zero common sense, plenty of inconsistency, and downright cruel ignorance of basic human decency.
This is reactionary, considering the swift disappearance of the ads on the WWASPS forum and Ginger's explanations, which you've chosen to overlook or ignore. If you calm down a bit and try to articulate your concerns in a more even way, you might get better responses from folks. I had some concerns about the ads myself, but now find Ginger's explanations reasonable. It is an issue likely to draw criticism. Reactionary language swelling with personal attacks, however, is the least effective way to generate a healthy discussion.
-
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid.
-
On 2006-01-05 06:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
How is it that Ginger can justify leaving the most vile slander up on the public internet? She believes that the slander put here on Luke Riffle is what killed his film funding, but she won't take the vile slander off the public internet.
I believed him when he said it caused him problems. And you know very well that I did remove it after begging, arguing and pleading with 'the author' to allow me to do so. Probably too little too late. But thanks anyway for having a decent, lucid moment.
I for one am sick of your sense of ownership of fornits. Power corrupts. Maybe you should just fucking donate the server space instead of acting like you are so generous when what you really are is so despotic.
My sense of ownership? Dude, I DO own it! Have since 29-May-1995
The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.
I'll fucking pay you, I will send you money every month just to NOT run fornits.
Yeah, Craig Rogers made the same offer to my hosting providers. They told him to pound sand. Of course, being Canadian, they said it very politely.
How many times does poor Sammie have to get sacrificed, or Luke Riffle?
Gee, I don't know, Brian. How fucking many times are you going to fuck with her, call her a liar, a pedophile, a secret double agent for Straight? I can't answer that. Only you can.
...because flapping your arms like a spastic parrot comes in handy in real life, doesn't it?
Helena Handbasket
-
Get a room, you two! No one cares for this drivel!
-
On 2006-01-05 11:20:00, Antigen wrote:
How many times does poor Sammie have to get sacrificed, or Luke Riffle?
Gee, I don't know, Brian. How fucking many times are you going to fuck with her, call her a liar, a pedophile, a secret double agent for Straight? I can't answer that. Only you can.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: STANDING OVATION :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
-
Mr. Anonimals: Your incessant protesting is getting quite stale, my good man. Enough already with the complaints about arbitrary censorship/editing. >YAWN<
Miss Antiginger: Quit giving our friend the attention that he craves & perhaps he will pack it up and go home... :idea:
-
On 2006-01-05 11:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-05 11:20:00, Antigen wrote:
How many times does poor Sammie have to get sacrificed, or Luke Riffle?
Gee, I don't know, Brian. How fucking many times are you going to fuck with her, call her a liar, a pedophile, a secret double agent for Straight? I can't answer that. Only you can.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: STANDING OVATION :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: "
Bugger off, mindless sycophant!
-
On 2006-01-05 11:37:00, Lord Obnoxio wrote:
Miss Antiginger: Quit giving our friend the attention that he craves & perhaps he will pack it up and go home...
You haven't left yet. When is that going to happen? Have you started your own site like you asked Ginger about?
-
Who the FUCK are you talking to, asshole? :silly:
And you're doing JUST what I suggested NOT doing! Now get the hell out of my office!!!
-
Ginger:
Why do the ads for troubled teens, teen boot camps, and Spring Creek keep disappearing and then coming back again?
For technical dummies, please.
-
On 2006-01-05 11:45:00, Lord Obnoxio wrote:
"Who the FUCK are you talking to, asshole? :silly:
I'm talking to YOU asshole! :grin:
And you're doing JUST what I suggested NOT doing! Now get the hell out of my office!!!"
Ginger's office, I'll get out when SHE tells me. You can suggest anything you want, whether or not anyone will follow your suggestions is up to them. So, I guess the answer to the question about your new website is a big, fat NO..huh? :lol:
-
Look here, you FOOL...you seem to have me confused with this Anonimals jackass for some unfathomable reason...care to explain to us why you seem to be under the impression that I, the great Lord Obnoxio, am this Anonimals? Huh? Sheeesh!!
-
And how about removing your fucking tongue from the dark recesses of Ginger's rectum for a minute, eh? :lol:
-
Now go email her to ask whether I'm animals or not.. :roll: :lol:
-
Where the fuck did you go? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-
>YAWN<
-
How about Lord Fellatio? Oh, what's the use? He'd still find a way to torture us with his inept scatological witticisms.
-
Nobody has to ask Ginger who you are. We all know. You're easy. Haven't you at least figured that out by now?
How's the new website coming?
-
No they don't you moron.
Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.
-
WHAT new website? :???:
You really are a fucking idiot, you know... :lol:
-
On 2006-01-05 11:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger:
Why do the ads for troubled teens, teen boot camps, and Spring Creek keep disappearing and then coming back again?
For technical dummies, please. "
I'm not sure what you mean. You mean the entire ad bar is going away? Or do you mean you're seeing different ads each time?
If it's going away, it's probably just a minor malfunction somewhere between the server and your browser. Nothing's perfect, but it works often enough.
If it's just different ads, well the rotation is more or less a random sampling of whatever ads Google matches up by keyword w/ the page in question.
Now, that said, we'll always get ad links in some of these forums keyed on terms related to the troubled parent industry. But the smart ones and the ones w/ the extra staffing to attend to such details will block their ads from coming up in this context. I can block up to 200 of them, that's it.
The Internet is now safe for free speech.
-- Christopher A. Hansen on the overturning of the Communications Decency Act
-
If it's just different ads, well the rotation is more or less a random sampling of whatever ads Google matches up by keyword w/ the page in question.
That answers my question. Thanks.
-
WHAT new website?
You really are a fucking idiot, you know...
What are you going to call your new site?
-
On 2006-01-05 09:07:00, GregFL wrote:
"
On 2006-01-05 06:58:00, Anonymous -[name edited out]-animals wrote...
Fact is, Ginger, you set this shit up, and survivors seeking memory and conversation of history get abused and reabused because you have no political sensibility on what happens here and what you created with your dubious and, again, inconsistent and therefore bogus set of ethics by which you decide what to delete.
Turn.Your.Computer.Off.If.You.Don't.Like.It.
Choice # 2
Browse.Porn.instead.
"
Do you have permission to use this person's name on the public internet?
Do you have proof that he wrote it?
Rhetorical questions, don't bother.
You should edit that, Greg.[ This Message was edited by: ex-prisoner on 2006-01-06 15:57 ]
-
Open Forum.
-
But it is not really an Open Forum, because Ginger does delete things, according to her own whim. She owns it, she said it herself. It is Ginger's Forum.
-
On 2006-01-06 16:03:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"But it is not really an Open Forum, because Ginger does delete things, according to her own whim. She owns it, she said it herself. It is Ginger's Forum."
Right. And, as such, I warmly invite you to take advantage of any of those "Free Web Forum Hosting" links that turn up all over these forums if you don't like the way I run this one. Show us all how it's done. You've identified a niche market that I don't serve. Serve it and quit bitchin, please!
BTW, Pirate, EP's argument sounds a whole lot like Lenin than Mises, doesn't it?
screening pre-school kids for anti-social behavior is about as useful as screening the Christian Coalition for sanctimonious behavior.
Sanho Tree
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
-
On 2006-01-06 15:49:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"
On 2006-01-05 09:07:00, GregFL wrote:
"
On 2006-01-05 06:58:00, Anonymous -[name edited out]-animals wrote...
Fact is, Ginger, you set this shit up, and survivors seeking memory and conversation of history get abused and reabused because you have no political sensibility on what happens here and what you created with your dubious and, again, inconsistent and therefore bogus set of ethics by which you decide what to delete.
Turn.Your.Computer.Off.If.You.Don't.Like.It.
Choice # 2
Browse.Porn.instead.
"
Do you have permission to use this person's name on the public internet?
Do you have proof that he wrote it?
Rhetorical questions, don't bother.
You should edit that, Greg.[ This Message was edited by: ex-prisoner on 2006-01-06 15:57 ]"
blah blah blah, bore bore bore.
Get a real issue.
-
I don't know...people have valid arguments... My theory is if your alive...you're workin. God bless the Social Anarchists.
Fuck the government, they perpetuate oppression.
I'm sure there would be other problems concernin' Anarchist society but I would at least like to approach that bridge.
-
My theory is if your alive...you're workin.
Nice "work" if you can get it...I have to resort to mugging people and things like that. How do you get by? :???:
-
I saw ads on fornits tonight for the following: Tranquility Bay, Midwest Academy, Eagle Point Academy, Boot Camps.
Tranquility Bay.
Ginger's Forum features an ad for Tranquility Bay.
If you can do a two-step and make that okay in your own mind, you ALL have truly lost a grip on reality.
What a bunch of stupid ass fucking losers from Straight to get on here and back Ginger up for advertising for child abuse. There is no hope in this world if you people STILL can't think for yourselves.
SHAME ON FORNITS. Shame on all you sorry fuckers.
-
On 2006-01-04 11:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Besides, if they found Fornits by searching for help for their teen then they've already seen the program sites and it can only serve to be detrimental to WWASPS et al to have read things here and THEN go to WWASPS sites, IMO.
Not necessarily. People see and read what they want to see and read. Many people prefer a more structured environment than a forum when scanning online info, and an ad bar could conceivably lure a potential parent client away from the forum in seconds, regardless of titles of posted topics.
"
Good point.
-
On 2006-01-04 13:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-04 12:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" In case nobody's noticed the VAST MAJORITY of those ads are already gone. Seems WWASPS etc. feel the need to control any and all info. Ginger was right."
"
Ginger was wrong. There was an ad up for Tranquility Bay earlier. I saw it too.
-
On 2006-01-04 13:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"is it worth losing a single parent to the ad banner?"
-
On 2006-01-04 14:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-04 14:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
Of course, this could all be redundant if what you say about the advertisers comes true.
"
already has."
Has not.
-
On 2006-01-05 10:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
" How is it that Ginger can justify leaving the most vile slander up on the public internet? She believes that the slander put here on Luke Riffle is what killed his film funding, but she won't take the vile slander off the public internet. This is not a survivors' or veterans' forum, it is Ginger Warbis' forum, run on zero common sense, plenty of inconsistency, and downright cruel ignorance of basic human decency.
This is reactionary, considering the swift disappearance of the ads on the WWASPS forum and Ginger's explanations, which you've chosen to overlook or ignore. If you calm down a bit and try to articulate your concerns in a more even way, you might get better responses from folks. I had some concerns about the ads myself, but now find Ginger's explanations reasonable. It is an issue likely to draw criticism. Reactionary language swelling with personal attacks, however, is the least effective way to generate a healthy discussion. "
The ads disappear and reappear but they still show up here.
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On 2006-01-05 11:20:00, Antigen wrote:
"
How many times does poor Sammie have to get sacrificed, or Luke Riffle?
Gee, I don't know, [name edited out]. How fucking many times are you going to fuck with her, call her a liar, a pedophile, a secret double agent for Straight? I can't answer that. Only you can."
Gee I don't know, Gin, it seems to me that you are the one with the controls here. It has become quite obvious to anyone who has watched this board for a while that you will delete whatever you want to delete. You must not want to delete vile slander on Sammie. Where is your common decency? People can write shit up all over the bathroom walls of fornits, but you won't let anyone take a marker and cross out slander on their own self. Get a grip on your power trip.
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On 2006-01-05 06:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"dubious... inconsistent and therefore bogus set of ethics by which you decide what to delete."
true dat.
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i think this site is imploding and does not really serve any useful purpose at all. the whole thing vaguely reminds me of this site:
http://www.psychoexgirlfriend.com (http://www.psychoexgirlfriend.com)
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i guess this site does not exist anymore, sorry i referenced it. i think people leave this site more fucked up than when they found it. just like straight.
-
One big difference. Nobody is forcing anyone to be or stay here.
-
I've been waiting to 7step for a while now.
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On 2006-01-07 04:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
Gee I don't know, Gin, it seems to me that you are the one with the controls here.
Really! And by what authority should I control your little friend here? Sorry, it's not my week to watch him. Why don't YOU see if you can influence him to behave himself better?
Terms of use (http://fornits.com/wwf/faq.php#terms)
Though I can't (and wouldn't want to) control every word posted here, I and the moderators of individual forums reserve the right to delete posts and/or ban users at our sole discretion with wanton disregard for anyone else's opinion of the propriety of such decisions.
You must not want to delete vile slander on Sammie. Where is your common decency? People can write shit up all over the bathroom walls of fornits, but you won't let anyone take a marker and cross out slander on their own self. Get a grip on your power trip.
"The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects... "
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.
Get a grip yourself, darlin! You don't get to control other people. Sorry. It just doesn't work that way. Just like our buddy Brian, you have posted your own name all over this place. Now you want me to work overtime for free policing everyone who uses this forum to make sure they don't repeat what you've already posted? What color is the sky on your planet?I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
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On 2006-01-07 01:34:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"I saw ads on fornits tonight for the following: Tranquility Bay, Midwest Academy, Eagle Point Academy, Boot Camps.
Tranquility Bay.
Ginger's Forum features an ad for Tranquility Bay.
If you can do a two-step and make that okay in your own mind, you ALL have truly lost a grip on reality.
What a bunch of stupid ass fucking losers from Straight to get on here and back Ginger up for advertising for child abuse. There is no hope in this world if you people STILL can't think for yourselves.
SHAME ON FORNITS. Shame on all you sorry fuckers."
Here you go again "verbally abusing" people who happen to have different views than you. Yet you have posted all over this place demanding censorship because some people are angry with you.
Shame on you for thinking it was funny and cute for your friend to post death threats to me! Shame on you for laughing and saying to me he loves you and was defending your honor!
YOU ARE ACTING VERY HYPOCRITICAL! You and your friend are the most abusive people here. You never felt the need to have him or yourself censored.
Now your whining about the ads up here. No one is forcing you to come here. This reminds me of the temper tantrum you threw on the alumni and called everyone brainwashed, bitches, etc because Don would not change the name to your liking. Since these ads are up should I call you brainwashed for still posting here? It seems to be one of your favorite words to use against people.
We are all a bunch of losers and sorry fuckers now, eh? Should I cry to Ginger and tell her I'm going to kill myself if she doesn't delete what you wrote because I am oh just so hurt?
You defend people do you? Where were you when people were posting death threats to me or sexually degrading stuff to me? It only matters when it happens to you right?
Oh for the record I removed your damn name off that post! I do recall you posting your REAL NAME on here before though. I removed it because I do understand why no one would want their damn name posted on this place because of death threats, but you did post it before. Your threats of posting my name don't phase me. My name is all over in these posts.
-
You gotta know when to hold em', know when to fold em', know when to walk away and know when to run :wave:
-
Alright, who let Kenny in here?
-
What 2 things do:
Download Vbulletin Free PHPBB Hosting PHPBB Skins Invision Forum Free Message Boards
Cheap Vaporizer Best Vaporizer PHPBB Forum Marijuana Alexandra Roma
Blog Search Engines Anonymous Email PHPBB Forum Vbulletin Boarding School
all have in common?
1. They are all ads that Show up on Fornits WWF.
2. They have no control over what is said here.
Personally I do not really want any donations from any of you folk. I do not want to give anyone here the impression that they are buying a say so in how the Fornits WWF is run.
If any of you think that these google ads are obtrusive, please take the time to go learn how to setup your own free forum. Or better yet, just go read the other forums. When yo get tired of the numerous blinking adds, and pop-ups, and other miscellaneous garbage or that you get tired of what you "can't say". You are welcome back ::dove:: can generate. Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of good stuff around here too.
There are some forums that are moderated by designated individuals. I can not personally vouch for what they do in respect to how they moderate "there" conversations of which they have control. But any forum that is Moderated by NOBODY, is exactly that.
Quite frankly There is not a whole lot of flattering stuff around here for any of them, and anyone with half a brain would take more then a glance, if not their minds are already made up. You can not blame that on us. The teen help ads are becoming infrequent, the do not really want to be here. Some are just too inept to know it or change it.
One thing that you can be assured of. Take note of all the ads that originally showed, and which ones are now gone. Now you know for sure who is watching, and who is may not. For those of you with a temper, the wrong truth can get you sued around here.
Peace Out
Bill
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On 2006-01-07 10:17:00, webcrawler wrote:
Oh for the record I removed your damn name off that post! I do recall you posting your REAL NAME on here before though.
What, that worked? Asking the author to edit their own words actually works? Even if they're not your best friends or in with the in crowd or whatever? You mean to tell me that you have more power than I do to control your own communication? That es no mi job, meign?
Whew! What a relief! There are 6 billion mother fuckers on this planet and more of them get net access every day. I was wondering how I was going to meet my obligation.Don't sweat the
- Petty Things
Don't pet the
- Sweaty Things
Water what you want to grow.
--Curiosity
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
-
-
O.K I really havn't been payin' all that much attention to things lately but I am concerned about some of the posts I've read recently claiming that Antigen is advertising for mind-rape instituitions such as $tr8 Inc., Tranquility Bay, etc., I clicked on to the ads to see for myself but didn't see anything about any of these mind-rape institutions. Of course I didn't have the patience for it anyway, but if this is true and there are ads for these sick institutions on this forum then I am disturbed by this and wonder WTF is goin' on.
Ant., tell me it aint true. Tell me you aint advertisin' for the criminals and fascists. If you are indeed running ads for WWASPS and other teen torture facillities then I am sick to my stomache and disgusted, and will no longer be a part of this site.
What is up with the Google ads ???
signed, extremely disturbed and concerned.
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On 2006-01-07 06:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i guess this site does not exist anymore, sorry i referenced it. i think people leave this site more fucked up than when they found it. just like straight."
yup. implode away.
-
Well, I'm feeling rather warrior princessish. But maybe I'll keep an eye out for something that strikes my fancy.
As to the ads, yeah, they're there. Whether the program ppl like it or not, their names sometimes appear within a couple of clicks of Fornits. I don't think they care for that very much. I don't think it helps them. I think they'd just as soon pay for advertising on Cannabis Culture as here.
In fact, it seems asthough they've already started blocking that from happening. I expect the number of industry related ads to keep dropping till all that are left are those who don't check to see where their ads are coming up.
I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life -- our desire to go on living -- our dread of coming to an end.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
-
Damn!! I'm so sorry to hear that this site supports programs that torture minors. Even though I will miss comin' here at times, I cannot post here under those conditions, ever. Later.
Fuck $tr8. Fuck authority. Fuck Fornits
::dove:: ::dove:: ::dove::
-
Soooo....see you on the Alumni site then..? :em:
-
That was me..
-
Nah, I just get why they're there.
Just because you do not take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.
PERICLES (430 BC)
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On 2006-01-07 19:34:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Damn!! I'm so sorry to hear that this site supports programs that torture minors. Even though I will miss comin' here at times, I cannot post here under those conditions, ever. Later.
Fuck $tr8. Fuck authority. Fuck Fornits
::dove:: ::dove:: ::dove::
"
Stop crying :cry2: and SELL OUT
-
Lookie what I found
http://www.moregoodfoundation.org/goffe ... GgodmEb2AQ (http://www.moregoodfoundation.org/goffensive.html?gclid=CM7Jq5bXuoICFQ8BGgodmEb2AQ)What experiences and history teach is this-that people and government never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.
--G.W.F Hegel (1770-1831)
-
pirate wrote:
My theory is if your alive...you're workin.
Nice "work" if you can get it...I have to resort to mugging people and things like that. How do you get by?
-
Uhhh...maybe I've jumped the gun here a little bit with this...with the whole ...uhhh...Google ad thing. I think maybe I don't understand exactly how these ads work. I don't like the feelin' though. I take back what I said earlier about "Fuck Fornits" and how I won't post here under these conditions. I reserve judgement for now.
Frank D: I get by in various ways, some capitalism, some socialism, some piracy :wink: and some good fortune. I established the "If you're alive you're workin" theory while I was a homeless man.
-
Cool beans. Ya' know, it could turn out that I'm wrong about this. Either way, you don't have to agree with me to be friends, far less to be welcome around here. It's not a big deal.
But, here's the thing. I've wanted to try this for some time. Really, two years ago was the last time I looked into the nitty gritty. At that time, Google didn't provide a way for advertisers to block their ads from turning up where the advertisers didn't want them. Now they have, so this gives me a little more info coming back. Not much, but some.
Here's the gambit. For the most part, people who hosts or contribute to sites aimed at exposing the industry won't take part in advertising programs for all of the reasons ya'll offer here. I think there's a logical in that reasoning. And it goes w/ a defeatist belief about how we can't win in a contest involving money. I don't buy that. Never have.
When Charlie King started it on tbfight.com, I was sort of excited to sit back and see how that would go. He took his ads down because people complained.
Well, Charlie's a far more likable person than I am. Honest to God, even if I value a friendship profoundly, I don't give a flyin run at a rollin' donut if you agree w/ me or not, unless you can show me that I'm wrong. Even if you hate me over it, I'll still think just the same about you as ever, even though we disagree.
So, I figure I can afford it. People get pissed at me all the time over all kinds of things. Really doesn't bug me, ya' know? And I want to know!
I've kept a little bit of an eye on Google and AI and net marketing in general. What I think I'm seeing is that it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a bad idea to out bid or out spend a good one in the wilds of Cyberia. Not that there aren't a whole lot of bad ideas out there. Just that they tend to starve to death while the good ones thrive.
And I think that advertising that turns up in the wrong context is counterproductive to the advertiser. Think not? Ok, what happened to John Kerry's military record once the Swift Boat crack pots got done with it? There was his face, his name, pics of him in uniform and frequent, incessant reference to his purple hearts and combat duty. But the context turned all of that on it's head.
How about the tobacco industry's names and stats? When they say it, when they control the context, it works to their advantage. When Truth gets ahold of the same material, well it seems to be working to reduce smoking among kids in Florida.*
http://www.social-marketing.org/success ... truth.html (http://www.social-marketing.org/success/cs-floridatruth.html)
There are endless examples. And, again, this could fail. I'm prepared for that. It would take me all of about 10 minutes to remove all those ads from everywhere they appear. Then I will have found out what I wanted to know; that I can't boomerang this on the hawkers of fucked up ideas. (at least, not in this way)
But if it works? If it tests out and actually delivers a small revenu stream while promoting good ideas and pimp slapping bad ones AND each advertiser (whether they benefit or get punked) still has to pay to play? Shit, man! There would be a whole lot more websites critical of the industry if everybody could get just that little bit of green stuff to support the effort. So far, I can guess that I've cost the industry maybe... $20; just shy of half of total ad income. What if a thousand sites similar in prevailing opinion to this one were to do it?
Look, I'm watching, studying and, as always, seeking insight and opinions from others. If this pans out, it could be a good thing. If it doesn't, then I'll know. But this is the only way I know to find out. I don't see anybody else trying it for long. I've looked for that from time to time.
Oh, and btw, I got my last bill and it looks like we didn't run up any gigantic bandwidth bills from the Mark Levine show exposure. So no need to panhandle or cry distress or anything. It was only about $20 over the usual. Well worth it, imo.
I'll be moving this discussion over to website hosting, as I want it to continue in that vein. Any thoughtful input or conjecture will be heartily welcome, as always. But I may start a new forum just for conspiracy theories.
*One caveat: While I disagree on a profound level with doing things like this by way of the public sector, I'm not bitchin about this one. It's the sort of thing I actually would support and fund voluntarily if the tax man hadn't already robbed me blind. And the tort settlement, gargantuan as it is, probably doesn't even approach the level of government subsidies the tobacco industry has gotten over the years. So, well, the welfare mamas in Big Tobacco had to pay to advertise against themselves? :rofl:
What's not to love?
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
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I see...You have my attention again...I was never concerned with the whole money thing just the principle. Oh I know they're related 'n' all but I was just concerned that some kid might end up in $tr8 because of something advertised on this site. They are the sacrificial lambs ?? What if that happens ??
I'm pro'ly just too fucked up to be truly objective about this anyway. Truth is I carry a vedetta and I should throw it down too but carried so long now...
Ex Prisoner is right, though, this forum reminds me of a cult.
Oh and let me say, before I get back to the Steelers game, $tr8 was the most debillitating and fucked up thing that ever happened to me and I am sick with the whole thing yet.
SPIRITUAL ANARCHY!!! and PEACE.
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On 2006-01-08 14:52:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
I was never concerned with the whole money thing just the principle. Oh I know they're related 'n' all but I was just concerned that some kid might end up in $tr8 because of something advertised on this site. They are the sacrificial lambs ?? What if that happens ??
Well, if we're going to speak it's name, we're bound to wake it and then we have to dance with it. But IT doesn't get to lead this time, god damn it! What if one kid lands up in a program because of those ads, but 10 others are saved because of their rents having wandered through here BEFORE hitting any of those ads?
It's sort of unknowable and theoretical. I really suspect that the great outpouring of hostility and angst has more to do w/ people's fucked up beliefs and attitudes about money than legit concerns.
They don't teach this in school anymore, but the Tea Stamp Act was not what really started the Revolutionary War. It was just the last straw. The nut of the issue was the audacity of the rebellious colonists to illegally print and use their own money rather than depend on the whim of the Crown for theirs. Most Americans don't even know the history of this sign $ It used to have two stokes joined at the bottom by a downward curve. In otherwords it was a U overlayed on an S which stood for United States.
There are legit concerns! But they don't usually come wrapped in vitriole and hostility. Check this out. Here's somebody who's given considerable thought to both the industry and the troubled parent industry. Her proposed solution is just about the equal opposite of mine. But I'll be god damned if I'm not about to go and invite her into the mix. Oh, think I won't! You just watch me. Ha!
http://www.askquestions.org/articles/se ... ngines.pdf (http://www.askquestions.org/articles/searches/searchengines.pdf)
I'm pro'ly just too fucked up to be truly objective about this anyway. Truth is I carry a vedetta and I should throw it down too but carried so long now...
No, no. I don't think that's so. Just that, in my line of work, I've given this a lot of thought over a number of years. I think I've spotted a li'll chance to employ the SNAFU principle. We'll see.
Ex Prisoner is right, though, this forum reminds me of a cult.
Yeah, me too sometimes. But then, what else would you expect when you throw out an open invite to former members of a cult? Just don't ever let anyone live in your mind rent free. This site has been around awhile and will be around, I think, for a good while longer. If/when it's fun or useful to you to hang out, welcome friend! When it's not, well then fare well for now. Nobody has any claim on your time and attention except by your pleasure. Don't let anybody fuck w/ you on that!
P.S. I think I'm gonna put a railroad spike right through the middle of that table. My sis used to have one like that, only made out of railroad ties. We called the spike in the middle "The Argument Settler". Whoever was able to snatch it up first won. :em:
No, not really. I wouldn't harm the table or turn it against the will of the maker like that. I do, however, insist on a burned figure, seal or style of some sort from every friend who hangs around awhile.
Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle
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Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
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Okay...
...Backatcha.
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Cool `nuff!
http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=209 (http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=209)In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
--Unknown
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Antigen, I got as far as "Iraq" and had to respond...
I like your spirit...but as soon as they mention Iraq they drop the ball. The issue or isssssue as they would say on the BBC is not in some distant, though way too close to home, war against some former employee of the U.S. government(and if you pay federal taxes then you gave money to Saddam Hussein), who served the purposes of the U.S. for a while(as long as Iraq was at war with Iran), although , yes I know they are very related.
The whole western society is informed by $tr8 consciousness. Sometimes I get confused and think the insurgents are more right on than the American military over there. But then I realize that they are all Killers(no matter what their nationality or side of the conflict or world view, whatever) and have decided for themselves that their world view/ego consciousness is worth killin' for.
I am not a pacifist but I avoid violence if I can help it.
Iraq should not be compared to $tr8 so generally. There is a relationship between the two , as the same idiotic world view informs them both, but the issue of $tr8's abuse of minors, without constitutional rights, by which said minors, could at least have a chance to defend themselves stands on its own regardless of anything else. $tr8ts' abuse of minors is indicative of the authoritarian nature of general western philosophy
I know you were just referrin' interested parties to some web-site for further reference.
I don't mean to come down on you, but to invite you to see my point and then post your thoughts, what you think...I value your opinion, as well as ex-prisoners', as well as Woof-a-Doofs, etc.,...
I had more to say...
I will continue to read the link. That's just as far as I got for now when I had to react.
I gotta get back to the game.
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Aw, hell yeah! I haven't read it all either. I was just looking into google ads and troubled teen and found that article, then backed up and found the main question. This is in the top, front page, above the fold questions on the site. Niles did that. Cool, huh?
Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
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I don't know...Ya lost me again... who is Niles...what are you talkin' 'bout ??
Nevermind, ya got enough ta do...I'll figure it out as I go...Peace.
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...Or die tryin',HA! such is life... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Oh, take your time. I'm still wandering around that site. This could be really a brawl here! Not so sure it's gonna be a good thing at all, but I'm pretty sure it's inevitable. Better explosive than frigid, I say.
Ok, now hang on tight, we're moving.... here we go....The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor