Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 29, 2005, 03:25:00 PM
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Assuming we want to discredit, pinch, and ultimately bankrupt the Straight legacy in all of its present manifestations, why then is bringing Sembler and Newton to justice the best way to achieve this end? In other words, is their mutual downfall more useful than waging a campaign demanding accountability for the directors of contemporary institutions? If the answers are common knowledge, forgive me. I?m new to this forum. Less than a month ago, I had no idea who either man was, even though nearly a year of my adolescence was spent in one of their institutions.
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You're assuming that there is an organized group that is after them. There's not. Its each person doing what they feel they need to do for their own reasons whatever those may be.
Miller owes millions of dollars to a few former inmates who were awarded judgements or settlements, literally millions. He filed for bankruptcy to avoid payment and now it seems that there is a fraud issue with the bankruptcy (hidden or fraudulently trasferred properties from what I've read).
If it were ever proven in a court that Mel had knowledge of the day to days at Seed/Straight that would be a huge step towards making people aware of how prevalent this has become in society. Think about it, a 2 time ambassador with questionable appointments to those positions who has major influence over drug policy and who continues to boast about all the good work he's done on behalf of kids. He's already gone from slapping all his great work at Straight all over his resume and every bio that's done on him to backpeddaling and saying 'well, I wasn't really involved in the day to day stuff so I had no idea what was going on'. If the media were to run with that it would open up many more avenues for those that want to speak out and be heard. Since most of the decendant programs work virtually identically to their anscestors people will be better informed of how many of them there are and how dangerous they are.
I think there's room for each of us to do what we feel is necessary in whatever way we choose.
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How connected are they with the many facilities in operation now?
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It's a question of which ones you're talking about. Start here http://thestraights.com/the-straights/t ... hts-fc.htm (http://thestraights.com/the-straights/thestraights-fc.htm)
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2620 (http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2620)
http://www.thestraights.com/articles/ki ... innati.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/articles/kids-cincinnati.htm)
and look how eerie this is http://wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/iteam/92a2f60.html (http://wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/iteam/92a2f60.html)
If you start back at what appears to be the originator of all the Theraputic Community bullshit then you go directly back to Synanon and Chuck Dederich (sp?) http://thestraights.com/theprogram/synanon-story2.htm (http://thestraights.com/theprogram/synanon-story2.htm) and CEDU (Charles E. Dederich University http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#157781 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13119&forum=11&start=0#157781) ) and so on and so on. Start digging around, you'll be amazed.
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But what is the likelihood of bringing down such well-financed and connected individuals? And, back to my original question, wouldn't it be more advantageous to expose the abuses in current institutions? I know work is being done, but it pales in comparison to the smear campaigns and lawsuits directed against these nearly untouchable men. And they're as likely to suffer for their crimes as Donald Rumsfeld for the abuses at Abu Graab.
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I guess it all boils down to a matter of opinion. I think there's been progress made and I think there's more to come. For the first time ever Mel and Betty are forced to deal with their past period and in a court of law to boot. I think that's progress. Miller is having to answer to charges of bankruptcy fraud and has been stopped time and again from working with kids. I think that's progress. They're not as untouchable as you think. No, I don't think that anything we've done, or will do will result in criminal charges or anything like that but they're not made of teflon either. Again, its each person doing what they feel they need to. I don't agree with what everyone does or how they choose to try and make a difference (or if they don't for that matter, no one is under any obligation to do anything as far as I'm concerned), but I don't think its my place to knock what they're doing. I'm not speaking for any "we", just myself.
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It's hard for me to relate to the Miller/Sembler attacks because I was never abused by them directly. Orders to torture issue from the top down, I realize. I should want to see them fall. I should, for the abuse I suffered ?inadvertently? at their behest, desire nothing short of their annihilation. But I can think of so many other individuals on the C.O.C. who conspired to tuck me away: school administrators, the PTA, the program director. The people filling their shoes now are guilty of complicity, as these people were then. So many community "pillars" are responsible for this nightmare. Could they be able to continue hiding because of the intense focus on the biggest fish?
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On 2005-12-29 14:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's hard for me to relate to the Miller/Sembler attacks because I was never abused by them directly.
Then don't try.
I should want to see them fall.
Says who? Again, this is an individual thing.
But I can think of so many other individuals on the C.O.C. who conspired to tuck me away: school administrators, the PTA, the program director. The people filling their shoes now are guilty of complicity, as these people were then. So many community "pillars" are responsible for this nightmare. Could they be able to continue hiding because of the intense focus on the biggest fish?"
Well then you do what you think is appropriate and others can enjoy the freedom to do the same. This isn't a group effort here. No one is responsible for anyone else's actions or well being.
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Perhaps I'm disappointed that it's not a group effort. Again, this is all new to me. But what if only a fraction of us retreated from this forum and put our collective strength, knowledge, and skills together? Think about this scattered energy directed, focused, and redirected towards a set of actual goals. Did I just write that? It?s hard to even posit such a notion without sounding presumptuous. It?s every individual against Goliath? Well, my faith in numbers is greater than my faith in the isolated activist slicing away in the dark.
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On 2005-12-29 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Perhaps I'm disappointed that it's not a group effort. Again, this is all new to me. But what if only a fraction of us retreated from this forum and put our collective strength, knowledge, and skills together?
Its being done. Look around at some of the other sites.
http://www.ficausa.com/ (http://www.ficausa.com/)
http://www.isaccorp.org/ (http://www.isaccorp.org/)
http://thestraights.com/index.htm (http://thestraights.com/index.htm)
http://www.alternet.org/story/27725/ (http://www.alternet.org/story/27725/)
http://radioinsidescoop.com/mt-posts-ar ... 00506.html (http://radioinsidescoop.com/mt-posts-archive/000506.html)
Think about this scattered energy directed, focused, and redirected towards a set of actual goals. Did I just write that? It?s hard to even posit such a notion without sounding presumptuous. It?s every individual against Goliath? Well, my faith in numbers is greater than my faith in the isolated activist slicing away in the dark. "
Then by all means, organize your own group and go for it. Getting everyone to agree on what the right approach should be is going to be difficult. We are all different with differing life experiences. We don't all respond or react the same. People that want to do the things that ISAC does do that, people that want to go at it in the manner that Straights.com does do that. I don't really think I'm disagreeing with much of the sentiment of what you're saying. I don't necessarily agree with everything that Sammie or Rich or Wes or anyone else does or says, but each has brought something valuable to the table. You think Sammie is over the top, fine. You may be right, but she sure does draw attention. Not always good but people pay attention and then start to look a little further. Then they might find Wes' site and take some info from there. Then FICA then Fornits etc.
We've all got our place in this. If yours happens to be on the same page as some others, great. Organize and go for it.
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Thank you for the links. I know there are many people working on this. But I'm new to the scene and am burning for a formula. I'm also frustrated by reality and therefore searching for a task. I promised myself years ago, while wasting away in the program, that I would one day work towards freeing just one kid like myself. But now I'm seeing the kinds of obstacles that were there all along, and am searching for the security of a checklist and a sweeping, organized movement.
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I think a lot of us have felt that way. Unfortunately it just doesn't appear to be realistic.
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On 2005-12-29 18:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think a lot of us have felt that way. Unfortunately it just doesn't appear to be realistic. "
I know, I agree ::boohoo:: ::mecry::
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On 2005-12-29 14:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
I can think of so many other individuals on the C.O.C. who conspired to tuck me away: school administrators, the PTA, the program director. The people filling their shoes now are guilty of complicity, as these people were then. So many community "pillars" are responsible for this nightmare. Could they be able to continue hiding because of the intense focus on the biggest fish?
I'm with ya on the grand conspiracy. But I don't think bringing attention to the poster boys of the industry is really going to help anyone hide. Really, they bring lots of attention to themselves by acting in the public and private sectors. They just don't like to talk about the other side of it.
Especially Sembler. Sembler is close to the White House. I didn't put him there. Frankly, I was dumbfounded to find out that these sadistic lunatics are actually in positions of responsibility of any kind. I thought they all wound up sad little leaders of little fringy cults or went back on recall to the secret underground base out in Nevada where they clone them.
And then I think well wtf, Sembler made his millions building strip malls anchored on big box stores and Jack Eckard's McPharmacies right over top of Mainstreets all over the nation. The Program seems a logical next step. You know, to deal with the ungrateful little bastards who don't apreciate all he's done for us already.
And this system of ours evidently favors bastards like him. Therefore, he wins the prize of Celebrity. I think that when people think of him, especially when he brags about Straight, they ought to know what he's talking about. I don't care if he gets sued or has a pleasant and peaceful life fully cloistered in his delusions of nobel grandure. I only want to get people thinking, talking and better understanding what kind of people these are.
On 2005-12-29 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
It?s every individual against Goliath? Well, my faith in numbers is greater than my faith in the isolated activist slicing away in the dark. "
No, like anon said. This forum is not an activist organization. It's just a venue for discussion. Think of it as your favorite biker bar. Great place to come and be sometimes. And ppl do sometimes put their heads together and embark on a project after meeting up here. Often, if you're looking for needed info about any part of the industry, this is a great place to ask directions. Just don't mind the trolls.
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
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On 2005-12-29 12:47:00, PhasedOut wrote:
"How connected are they with the many facilities in operation now? "
Now there's a good question. I don't know the whole answer, as they sure don't want it known. But here's a snapshot of a couple of the sadistic bastards in collusion w/ Ohio Governor Taft's office a couple of years ago. Ask Shelby for documentation tying ODADAS and TAFT directly to KHK.
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/Forbes/ (http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/Forbes/)
(both them reports are good, but don't miss the 40+ page pdf report by Forbes (linked from the index under 'ohio') for the nitty gritty, featuring DFAF exec, Calvina Fay, right in the middle of all the action).
They've distanced themselves somewhat (or obfuscated the ties) to the warehouses. It's more like those 'we're going to take over the world' raps in action.
Is uniformity [of opinion] attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites.
Thomas Jefferson
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Assuming we want to discredit, pinch, and ultimately bankrupt the Straight legacy in all of its present manifestations, why then is bringing Sembler and Newton to justice the best way to achieve this end? In other words, is their mutual downfall more useful than waging a campaign demanding accountability for the directors of contemporary institutions? If the answers are common knowledge, forgive me. I?m new to this forum. Less than a month ago, I had no idea who either man was, even though nearly a year of my adolescence was spent in one of their institutions.
There is no "we," really. People seem to think this is some sort of activist site. Sorry, but it's not. It's a place to meet and reconnect (using the term loosely) with others who were in str8. Where it goes from there is up to the individual(s).
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On 2005-12-29 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Assuming we want to discredit, pinch, and ultimately bankrupt the Straight legacy in all of its present manifestations, why then is bringing Sembler and Newton to justice the best way to achieve this end? In other words, is their mutual downfall more useful than waging a campaign demanding accountability for the directors of contemporary institutions? If the answers are common knowledge, forgive me. I?m new to this forum. Less than a month ago, I had no idea who either man was, even though nearly a year of my adolescence was spent in one of their institutions.
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Why do the Israelis go around hunting aging Nazis? Why did they kidnap Adolph Eichmann and have a show trial in Tel Aviv? I mean, the guy was old and was certainly not going to be able to start up concentration camps for Jews in Uruguay, so why bother?
Call it justice, call it revenge, call it whatever the fuck you want to call it, the criminal child abusers suchh as Mel and Betty Sembler, Miller and Ruth Ann Newton, Helen Petermann, etc, etc., ad nauseum, have much to answer for. Personally, I'd like to see them given some Abu Ghraib/Gitmo style torture, cattle prods in orifices and all, but I'd settle for simple executions.......
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Personally, I'd like to see them given some Abu Ghraib/Gitmo style torture
Well at least we might 'gitmo' honesty out of them that way.. ::bwahaha2:: . ::drummer::
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Ok, here's a better, more brief answer for ya'. I want to do to the Semblers and Newton (who's bogus books and movies are still quite popular among toughlove hategroup members) the same thing Wm. Bastone is doing to James Frey and Oprah.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/01 ... frey1.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0104061jamesfrey1.html)
I just want to hold them up to public scrutiny so that they'll lose the credibility they need to keep us all wrapped up in their delusional war on certain drugs that Jack Eckerd doesn't seel and that for which the Büsh Dynasty doens't hold patents and production contracts.
That's all, nothing real ambitious, eh?
Necessity never made a good bargain
--Benjamin Franklin Apr. 1734
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:wstupid:
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To the original poster: I like your spirit.
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Thank you. After reading all of the responses, I now feel that I have a better grasp of this issue. People have done a good job of expressing their thoughts so far.
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Thanks! You ask some of the best questions ever.
So what's your goal? What do you see that needs done? Just soaking up new info at this point? Or have you got some ideas? And how'd you come upon your recent avid interest?
We need cops.
We can't live without 'em.
But they need to start working for us....
That's no longer an option.
They've pushed it.
They've gone to far.
They've just gone to far.
Tom Crosslin
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Just reread the whole thread. I'm convinced it's among the finest on my server, and I want to add just one more thought.
About organization vs a more laissez faire approach. You're right, of course, that an organized effort is much more efficient. But don't ever forget that the worst catastrophes in all of human history have been well organized. Stalin had the trains running on time. Hitler 'fixed' the domestic economy and elevated some Germans' standard of living considerably. Plus, he made a great trading partner and philisophical ally for Prescott Büsh and his buddies. :roll:
Efficiency works equally well to amplify desired results as undesired ones.
The other way is somewhat of a leap of faith in a different direction. I believe in, and count on the kindness of strangers. I think we're all composed pretty much the same. While we all have our blind spots, we also all have some mix of the same set of virtues. Given all the info and freedom of will and volition, people usually behave in a fairly civilized manner w/ occasional brawls and fueds now and again. It's when we become groups and mobs and do things we might rather not for a cause that we become really dangerous.
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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On 2006-01-08 20:41:00, Antigen wrote:
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On 2005-12-29 14:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
I can think of so many other individuals on the C.O.C. who conspired to tuck me away: school administrators, the PTA, the program director. The people filling their shoes now are guilty of complicity, as these people were then. So many community "pillars" are responsible for this nightmare. Could they be able to continue hiding because of the intense focus on the biggest fish?
I'm with ya on the grand conspiracy. But I don't think bringing attention to the poster boys of the industry is really going to help anyone hide. Really, they bring lots of attention to themselves by acting in the public and private sectors. They just don't like to talk about the other side of it.
Especially Sembler. Sembler is close to the White House. I didn't put him there. Frankly, I was dumbfounded to find out that these sadistic lunatics are actually in positions of responsibility of any kind. I thought they all wound up sad little leaders of little fringy cults or went back on recall to the secret underground base out in Nevada where they clone them.
And then I think well wtf, Sembler made his millions building strip malls anchored on big box stores and Jack Eckard's McPharmacies right over top of Mainstreets all over the nation. The Program seems a logical next step. You know, to deal with the ungrateful little bastards who don't apreciate all he's done for us already.
And this system of ours evidently favors bastards like him. Therefore, he wins the prize of Celebrity. I think that when people think of him, especially when he brags about Straight, they ought to know what he's talking about. I don't care if he gets sued or has a pleasant and peaceful life fully cloistered in his delusions of nobel grandure. I only want to get people thinking, talking and better understanding what kind of people these are.
On 2005-12-29 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
It?s every individual against Goliath? Well, my faith in numbers is greater than my faith in the isolated activist slicing away in the dark. "
No, like anon said. This forum is not an activist organization. It's just a venue for discussion. Think of it as your favorite biker bar. Great place to come and be sometimes. And ppl do sometimes put their heads together and embark on a project after meeting up here. Often, if you're looking for needed info about any part of the industry, this is a great place to ask directions. Just don't mind the trolls.
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn (http://proxify.com/p/000110A1010110/687474703a2f2f7777772e616d617a6f6e2e636f6d2f657865632f6f6269646f732f74672f64657461696c2f2d2f303036303030373736312f636972636c6f666d69616d697468656d)
"
Just don't mind the moderators, either, who are regularly abusive to posters. They have their own agenda. THey participate in abuse. And abuse on fornits is one reason why an atmosphere of paranoia exists among straight survivors and why people don't get together.
An example of how GInger controls the discussion and information: If you think a lawsuit is a good idea and try to talk about it here, she'll be sure to jump in every time to tell you how impossible and stupid it is. Every time, just watch. It's like she's being paid to distract any good energy people might have & subvert it with her own cause. I think fornits is in fact the cause, the agent of non-joining and non-caring.
I came here hoping to find people and a place to talk about straight and a place to channel all my passionate energy for this cause. Unfortunately, fornits is permeated with a real atmosphere of terror. You yourself cannot trust anyone and you know it, which is why you are anonymous. If you start revealing your name or anything, you know how easily you can get abused. First there is Ginger and the moderators who like to post personal information and misinformation about people who question them here in public. Then there is the culture of fornits perpetuated by Ginger's ideals of no checks on abuse whatsoever. How well can you trust a forum where the moderator allows personal information to be posted in public, like home addresses and kids' names and slander connected to personal names, spouses names and so on? Fornits is run on lies and misinformation about Ginger's practiced art of cult leadership here. Too bad. Guess survivors will never get anywhere. People don't even want to go to protests because they know if certain people show up they will get gossiped about on fornits and to Ginger who is happy to repeat all kinds of gossip she has found out on people by the telephone. Then, if you try to speak up in any meaningful way, being as horrified by the abuse you see here in which survivors are personally slandered in public, she will pull out all the stops on her lying and gossiping and she'll spread misinformation about you, about who you even are, really, about the medications she might have found out that you are taking through her gossip connections, or she might just lie about the medication, she might lie and tell everyone here that anyone who speaks up against her and fornits that it is all one person questioning her who should be "on their meds". Nice way to squash any kind of rebellion: spread lies, make the other side look crazy and so on. If you are new here you might not have noticed this yet. Keep your eyes open. There is a reason only about three survivors ever post here any more. Fornits is useless, it is worse than useless, it is in fact a thorn in the side of any kind of survivor community that would get together for a good feeling of common cause.
If this forum were what survivors make of it, I hope that most of us would have made it so that the personal slander is removed on Sammie on other survivors. However, this forum is not what survivors make of it, not at all. It is what Ginger Warbis makes of it. She will delete and squash and trash and subvert and belittle and gossip and lie and spread lies about you to your friends you are trying to connect with and stuff. But when it comes to slander and abuse, she is happy for all that. It serves her own cause, and she uses survivors to serve this cause.
Just keep your eyes open for the kinds of posts that you read that are deleted or moved later. Some of us watched the last episode of Ginger's deleting tactics closely. This is no open forum, it is modulated and controlled by Ginger. Watch closely. A tyrant is terrified of dissent and the free discussion of information. She will be deleting stuff again soon that is the true voices of survivors.
Some of us are getting sick enough of the culture of abuse to really want to end it. As long as people unquestioningly believe that this is an "open forum", and fail to question why Ginger has the right to leave up completely false, abusive, and personally damaging slander on survivors, fornits will continue on to divide survivors and weaken some of the most powerful forces we as a survivor community could have. She has even admitted that Luke Riffle's documentary film on Straight lost it's funding because of fornits.
Documentary films are one of the most powerful tools to end oppression. They show the truth in a way that people really remember and it makes them keep thinking about it. If fornits is killing such a powerful thing for Straight survivors, and yet we let fornits continue as is, I guess it really everyone's fault. Think about that.
We thoroughly expect that Ginger will think she knows who this is and start slandering them. No, Ginger, you have no idea how many people have been abused by and on fornits who left, disgusted, but who are willing to get together now to end your tyranny of this abusive and terrorizing little cult/culture right here. We have been discussing amongst ourselves so that our ideas become solidified and strengthened. We are not alone in the history of rebellions and political sentiment. Rosa Parks finally had enough. Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream. When survivors unite against the tyranny of fornits, their cause is common to the cause of all repressed peoples. You have no inalienable right to allow things to be so wrong to survivors of institutionalized child abuse who have been abused and slandered horribly while you complain that you can't help it when in fact the truth is you can and will and have deleted whatever you want to that serves your own purpose.
We have certain objectives coming up in the next couple of weeks. The slander on survivors must be removed. We will not stand for the continued abuse and misrepresentation of survivors who are in fact working in the world for our common cause of an end to abusing children. We will not allow them to be degraded and abused here on fornits. We will stand up for each other, the line is drawn here, and we will not back down. We have lots of good company out there, and we will recruit it for our common purpose of an end to fear so that survivors can once again speak freely to each other and really get together on stuff.
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So how's the new site coming along? :smile:
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On 2006-01-17 19:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So how's the new site coming along? ::boycott:: :rofl: :rofl:
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I'm watching a good rerun of "Sanford & Son" right now.
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On 2006-01-17 19:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
We have certain objectives coming up in the next couple of weeks. The slander on survivors must be removed. We will not stand for the continued abuse and misrepresentation of survivors who are in fact working in the world for our common cause of an end to abusing children. We will not allow them to be degraded and abused here on fornits. We will stand up for each other, the line is drawn here, and we will not back down. We have lots of good company out there, and we will recruit it for our common purpose of an end to fear so that survivors can once again speak freely to each other and really get together on stuff.
Like I said, it's when we organize in groups for a cause that we become dangerous. You think this is some sort of therapy group. You think I'm responsible for what other people write. You think that gives you the right and, dare I say it, duty to fuck w/ me in whatever way you can think of till I bend to your will. You support one another's notions, despite all evidence and reasons (assuming, of course, these others to whom you refer are not just the voices in your head)
But you're just plain wrong. Sorry.
Here's a good read for ya on that.
http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/group ... think.html (http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/groups/groupthink.html)Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Mark Twain
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On 2006-01-18 10:44:00, Eudora (fka ~ Antigen) wrote:
"
On 2006-01-17 19:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
We have certain objectives coming up in the next couple of weeks. The slander on survivors must be removed. We will not stand for the continued abuse and misrepresentation of survivors who are in fact working in the world for our common cause of an end to abusing children. We will not allow them to be degraded and abused here on fornits. We will stand up for each other, the line is drawn here, and we will not back down. We have lots of good company out there, and we will recruit it for our common purpose of an end to fear so that survivors can once again speak freely to each other and really get together on stuff.
Like I said, it's when we organize in groups for a cause that we become dangerous. You think this is some sort of therapy group. You think I'm responsible for what other people write. You think that gives you the right and, dare I say it, duty to fuck w/ me in whatever way you can think of till I bend to your will. You support one another's notions, despite all evidence and reasons (assuming, of course, these others to whom you refer are not just the voices in your head)
But you're just plain wrong. Sorry.
Here's a good read for ya on that.
http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/group ... think.html (http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/groups/groupthink.html)
:wstupid:
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You still haven't answered how you can delete whatever gets in the way of your information control here, any thread by me or anyone else that YOU decide is something that should be deleted, and then say that you can't delete what you want to delete.
You have not explained that yet.
You have been censoring and deleting quite a lot, noticeable to all the folks watching the football game. Who's to say those posts weren't valid information, valid things for a Straight survivor to say or read? Who are you to say what their purpose is and decide to delete them from the communications of survivors to survivors here? Again, YOU show that YOU decide what is a worthy thread or not around here, and delete according to YOUR vision and will.
Therefore, all of your complex and purposefully confusing claims that you cannot and do not moderate are shown to be false.
If people can post here all kind of lies over and over again about how they fucked Helen Petermann, why can't someone come here and joke around about bananas and stuff all morning without you getting your paranoid tyrant in there deleting everything?
I can't control you, quit being so paranoid. I CAN however, say whatever the fuck I want to say within the parameters of your technological advancement over all the posters in your kingdom here. You rule by forced forfeit, but I am showing the people how they too can really and truly post whatever they want in response to your stated word that people can post whatever they want and you cannot and will not do anything about it.
Now, again, if you can delete and lock threads on any old day you want when you get up and decide to feel threatened by the excessive number of threads that seem to be silly or subversive or somehow saying something other than that which YOU want said here, why can't you with equal ease of deployment take down the slander on Straight survivors?
Whether or not anyone else has decided that their cause is in agreement, that the slander and personal names can and should be taken down, not because I can control you or ever could or would, but because we here when all is said and done know darn well there is a modicum of moderation already in that Antigen has deleted and censored and lied and engaged in distraction tactics already, so she can just as easily take down the slander on survivors, is not my concern. I see that Ginger likes to delete. I am showing her some things to delete that could just as easily, and with equal reason to the reason behind the deletion of anything I or anyone else says, be deleted.
Otherwise, if we are in agreement that nothing can get deleted, then nothing can get deleted. Either some things can with equal reason get deleted, or nothing can get deleted. Or you, Ginger, find yourself at the helm of a cult by virtue of your control of what gets deleted and what does not get deleted. What you deem to be "denial of service" attacks are really just denial of your control of a space that is inherently socially owned. Within the parameters of the ability of the people to own the space and actually do what they want within it, they will, it is only natural.
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You still haven't answered how you can delete whatever gets in the way of your information control here, any thread by me or anyone else that YOU decide is something that should be deleted, and then say that you can't delete what you want to delete.
You have not explained that yet.
You have been censoring and deleting quite a lot, noticeable to all the folks watching the football game. Who's to say those posts weren't valid information, valid things for a Straight survivor to say or read? Who are you to say what their purpose is and decide to delete them from the communications of survivors to survivors here? Again, YOU show that YOU decide what is a worthy thread or not around here, and delete according to YOUR vision and will.
Therefore, all of your complex and purposefully confusing claims that you cannot and do not moderate are shown to be false.
If people can post here all kind of lies over and over again about how they fucked Helen Petermann, why can't someone come here and joke around about bananas and stuff all morning without you getting your paranoid tyrant in there deleting everything?
I can't control you, quit being so paranoid. I CAN however, say whatever the fuck I want to say within the parameters of your technological advancement over all the posters in your kingdom here. You rule by forced forfeit, but I am showing the people how they too can really and truly post whatever they want in response to your stated word that people can post whatever they want and you cannot and will not do anything about it.
Now, again, if you can delete and lock threads on any old day you want when you get up and decide to feel threatened by the excessive number of threads that seem to be silly or subversive or somehow saying something other than that which YOU want said here, why can't you with equal ease of deployment take down the slander on Straight survivors?
Whether or not anyone else has decided that their cause is in agreement, that the slander and personal names can and should be taken down, not because I can control you or ever could or would, but because we here when all is said and done know darn well there is a modicum of moderation already in that Antigen has deleted and censored and lied and engaged in distraction tactics already, so she can just as easily take down the slander on survivors, is not my concern. I see that Ginger likes to delete. I am showing her some things to delete that could just as easily, and with equal reason to the reason behind the deletion of anything I or anyone else says, be deleted.
Otherwise, if we are in agreement that nothing can get deleted, then nothing can get deleted. Either some things can with equal reason get deleted, or nothing can get deleted. Or you, Ginger, find yourself at the helm of a cult by virtue of your control of what gets deleted and what does not get deleted. What you deem to be "denial of service" attacks are really just denial of your control of a space that is inherently socially owned. Within the parameters of the ability of the people to own the space and actually do what they want within it, they will, it is only natural.
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Give me a blowjob.
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You can say whatever you want. You just can't shout everybody else down. You're trying to prevent anybody having any discussion about anything you don't approve. And you're going about it just exactly the way a two year old throwing a screaming fit. No peace till everybody bows to you.
Wanna talk about banannas? Fine, start A thread abut banannas and have a blast. I don't even have to know what it means to you. It's not my business. But a couple of hundred threads that nobody's even contributing to? That's not discussion or communication, that's a denial of service attack. Denial of service attacks are not speech, they're censorship.
The problem with the "teen help" industry is that it's a bad "solution" in search of a problem.
Julie C.
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Look, I really am interested in your take on all of this and in seeing how your strategy plays out against mine. If you'll please concede on the flooding, I'd love to continue the debate. I think it's interesting and worthy. And I'd like for other people to be able to find it and, if they want to, to weigh in.
Of course I think you're wrong and you're sure I am. Otherwise, there would be nothing to discuss.
But I think you and I have very different ideas about what liberty is and which responsibilities are legitimate.
Here, this nifty flash animation well represents my views on liberty and responsibility:
Why I Live at the PO (http://art-bin.com/art/or_weltypostoff.html)
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On 2006-01-22 17:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You still haven't answered how you can delete whatever gets in the way of your information control here, any thread by me or anyone else that YOU decide is something that should be deleted, and then say that you can't delete what you want to delete.
Yes she has, dipshit. :roll: Every one of your insipid, redundant, annoying, obsessive and antagonistically phrased questions. You just don't like or agree with the answer.
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I'm sorry, I have to apologize for the music in that flash animation. This is a much better version.
http://jonathangullible.com/mmedia/philosop.swf (http://jonathangullible.com/mmedia/philosop.swf)
We just couldn't contact the copyright owner. So, technically, ISIL couldn't use it. But I have less liability and I like this one better. If they ever hit me up, I'll either pay them if I can or quit using it. But I just think it's better. And, FWIW, I think Jefferson made an error in reasoning when he advocated the patent and copyright system to begin with. People create cause they're driven to, not for the money. The money is secondary kudos sometimes, nothing more.I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO
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Antigen, you would be much more believable if you did not lie.
The only reason I can say whatever I want is that I can reroute around all your attempts to block me. There were no two hundred threads. That is a bald-faced lie.
If you had any interest in open discussion, you would not have started out about a week ago abusing and ridiculing whoever you thought this might be. Abuse, ridicule, blocking certain posters, deleting and locking posts have nothing to do with open discussion.
Until there is open discussion and the truth is laid out plain and simple for everyone to see, that you have no logical nor legal leg to stand on anymore in your crusade to allow slander to remain on your website because you do in fact delete whatever you want to delete, you can keep on lying and abusing people who secure for themselves the right to free speech, and we can keep on sending your forum to hell.
How can you think yourself any proponent of free speech, when all anyone ever did yesterday was put up one page plus about four threads of jokes and whatever before we ran out of bananas and had to go to the store? You really look silly being such a tyrant - locking, deleting and blocking a monkey like me.
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Dude, you are one sorry fuck. Get a fuckin' life.