Post by: empathy on December 24, 2005, 04:43:00 PM
I found it very disturbing this store owner felt he had to agree to shoplifting just to stop it from being so pervasive.
In his excellent book Migrations and Cultures, Thomas Sowell goes into the middleman minority phenomenon at length. It's fascinating how intensely these people are hated for providing necessary services at reasonable prices. The examples we're most familiar with are Jews (even after the Holocaust, still subject to discrimination in Europe) and Korean store owners in black neighborhoods here in the US. Ice Cube has a song out called "Black Korea" that encourages violence against the latter.
So my parents have a 5th grade education but run a store. The store was in downtown area, 99% black community and we were shoplifted 4 out of the 6 days we were open. We were closed on sundays because of church at it being the sabbath and all. The store was open 7 AM til 9 PM. Around 4 or 5 PM we would have tons of kids come in and thanks to surveillance systems that were set up after 6 years of scraping nickels and dimes together, we finally got on tape of these kids stuffing their book bags with candy, chips, and soda pop. We show the tapes to the children's parents because we know all of them on a first name basis. You know what the parents tell us? "Oh, it's okay. They're just kids and it's not like they're stealing all that much." We can't report them to the police because they're underage and we do not want them to go to jail or anything like that. We ask the kids why they steal and they mock us saying "ching chong chinese i can't understand you. Speak english chink." So we ask another customer to ask for us and the kids tell them "mind your own f***ing business." This happens almost everyday. Let's say they steal $.10 4 days out of 6. In one year, that is $146 per kid. Let's say out of 75 kids, only 10 actually steal. That's $1460 per year. When less than $12,000 is made per year, that's a lot of money. Do you think we want to work under these conditions? Without any insurance or heating or air condition in the house because we cannot afford them? We save enough money after 12 years of living in this hole. We sold the store to some black folks who said they wanted to run a business. Because we know they do not have money even though it was valued at $300,000 because we renovated the building little by little every year to make it better, we sold it for $175,000. 2 weeks after we sell, we found out from friends that the new owners sold it to other black folks for $500,000. Now it is a clothing store. Recently when we drove by, the glass windows were all shattered and held together with tape and kids, the same ones that stole from our store, were running out with arm full of clothes. A few minutes later, the owner stepped out looking ready to cry and went back in. Just posting a personal experience. Now I'm in college, and my friends back home tell me the kids who used to steal stuff all have gone to jail for one crime or another.
Apollonia Jordan, crack reporter for SF Bayview, National Black Newspaper, provides a textbook case of demonizing middleman minorities in a rant against Asian-owned beauty supply stores :
"Evil paranoid hate-bearing eyes are what Black people get when they walk into these Asian-owned beauty supply stores making money in our community. Every time we go into one of these stores, there is an Asian person following us around making us feel uncomfortable in your [sic] own community, because in their minds every Black person steals. These people have come into our community & taken over our beauty supply industry & what are we gonna do about it?"
Apollonia makes the ludicrous claim that Asian-run stores have "locked out Black-owned manufacturers from opening up beauty supply chains." Of course, the only way a new minority can 'take over' a market is to undersell, in this case by providing service in high-risk, high-crime neighborhoods.
William Raspberry on middleman minorities: "Their advantage is not knowledge but values: the willingness to live upstairs over the store, to put their children to work behind the counter & to keep to themselves. Make no mistake, they do serve - no matter that their service is likely to be described by those who depend on it as gouging, exploitation or bloodsucking.
"The problem is, their entrepreneurial activity often involves intangibles: walk-to locations, convenient business hours, willingness to run the risks of robbery, theft & nonpayment - all of which are exchanged for cash."
Thomas Sowell: "Where the middleman function has been performed by an ethnically distinct group, such groups have been among the most hated minorities anywhere. Few have experienced the centuries of animosity, persecution, mob violence, mass expulsions & wholesale slaughters which have been the fate of such middleman minorities as the overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia, the Jews in Eastern Europe or the Armenians in Turkey.
"All the blacks lynched in the entire history of the U.S. do not add up to the number of Chinese slaughtered in one year in 18th-century Vietnam or in 17th-century Philippines, & the mass killings of Armenians & Jews in the 20th century have been many times greater. Often such groups have been accused of charging exploitative prices & usurious interest. Yet it has been common for their expulsion to be followed by rising prices, higher interest rates & shortages of goods."
Kim McKee on the Black-Korean Conflict (pdf): "Many African Americans are unaware that these stores operate on a low overhead & are mom-and-pop establishments, where in the owner's mind, any time he loses a candy bar, a bottle of milk, or a package of cracker jacks, that?s 10¢ more he has to take out of his pocket to service the debt.
"Merchants in D.C. routinely work 12-to-14 hour days, 6 days a week. Yong Kim, a Korean grocery store owner, works from 10 to 9, 6 days a week, every week of the year because the $5700/month he owes in rent & taxes means he can never close his store. Kathleen Hom, a mayoral assistant on the Commission on Asian & Pacific Islander Affairs, discovered that merchants make an average of $8000 a year: 'Most rent their spaces & have no medical or property insurance.'"
Note that Apollonia's rant is in a paper that's big on reparations. So while she's pissed at the work ethic of Asian immigrants, the message to black kids is, Whitey owes you, so why work hard?
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2005, 04:56:00 PM
Post by: try another castle on December 24, 2005, 06:30:00 PM
I'm sure I can come up with a million reasons to find fault with your race as well, you know. Didn't you say you were Chinese? Damn, I hope you don't drive. And as for my people, well, we run the media, you know.
Your error is that you are conflating class with race. I bet you a million bucks that the poor white kids in that neighborhood were shoplifting, too. (And yes, there ARE poor white folks in the projects.) The only difference was that they probably got away with it, because your parents were too busy watching the black kids. You wouldn't believe how many white people shoplift. Even priviliged, middle-class white people who don't need to shoplift do so. Why? Because it's so damn easy. Nobody's watching us. They're all watching the blacks and latinos.
But why discriminate? Aren't most people stupid assholes anyway, regardless of their ethnicity? We all just have special individual ways of being assholes, depending on where we came from. All the colors of the asshole rainbow.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:00 ]
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2005, 06:47:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2005, 08:14:00 PM
Statistics show that for every white or asian caught shoplifting ten blacks do it and there are ten times more whites and asians. Less than 3% of the projects in the inner city are white occupied and in the largest cites there are no whites allowed . whites and asians can be rehabilitated blacks have not proven that they can no matter how much free housing they are given. Whites do not shoplift anywhere near the amount that blacks do . No black grocerys in south central los angeles and in many large citys because of shrinkage . If whites behaved like blacks did there would no stores in WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS. once blacks move in everybody moves out . take a look at your city.
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
Please meet Dr. Thomas Sowell Rose and Milton Friedman Senior Fellow
The Hoover Institution
Stanford University
Stanford, California 94305
http://www.tsowell.com/ (http://www.tsowell.com/)
The man is very intelligent, intellectually curious and meticulous in his work. In other words, I think he's right nearly all the time. Now, compare his history supported arguments w/ the obnoxious rantings and ravings of that joker, Cosby, who only plays a doctor on tv.
He's right this time, too. I think he skips an important part of the equation, though. There are good reasons why kids w/ distinctive ethnicity come up fulfilling these stereotypes. For one, right from the beginning, as soon as they go to school they start getting special treatment, asif they're something less than. And it's reenforced (as Sowell notes above) by the rest of the community. I've seen it. Black people do get the eye damned near everywhere they go. Hell, if you want to shoplift, the very best time to do it is when a couple of black kids enter a store.
It's self perpetuating. And, no coincidence I think, pervasive in just about every part of the country. Have we always been this homogeneous? Or is it the standardized curriculum written by Ivy League social anthropologists and psychologists?
Post by: Antigen on December 24, 2005, 09:13:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-24 17:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am not confusing class and race . If you do not make 3k a month than you cannot afford to raise a kid without shoplifting or being a burden to the taxpayer . Simply force people onto birth control until they have proven they can afford kids without becoming sociopaths who think that because others do it and don't get caught than it is okay.
Welcome, Chairman Mao's Ghost! Never thought you'd make it. Please allow me to introduce you to Scrooge McCzar. You might get along alright, seein as how you're all dead and prone to fantasy and such.
Here's a better idea. Why not try and figure out why so damned many people can't make it here anymore. Ya' know, the working poor have been with us always. They just got their own designated buzz phrase when a significant number of them started looking rather pale compared to the good old days when they wuz all nigras, as the old lady down the street used to say cause she honestly thought it was the polite term for nigger. Nice lady, too. Just severely misguided and none too bright. I think she was the only one in the neighborhood who didn't know her husband was gay.
There was a time in this country when our foreign dignataries could honestly answer questions about poverty in America with "We'll let you know when we see some." What were we doing differently then? It wasn't welfare or any other socialist programs. It was what the Europeans kept calling squalor and anarchy till they needed us to intervene in their world war. And we've been in hock and at war ever since.
Quote
Statistics show that for every white or asian caught shoplifting ten blacks do it and there are ten times more whites and asians.
It is criminal to steal a purse. It is daring to steal a fortune. It is a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases
--Schiller (1759-1805)
Quote
Whites do not shoplift anywhere near the amount that blacks do.
The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor
--Anatole France
Yeah, no shit! I haven't shoplifted since I was a runaway teenager. That's the last time I was that needy. Look, every segment of every society fucks over anybody they can within their own acceptable moral code; rarely outside of that, those we call criminals, the former we call leaders and role models. The moral code changes according to which group proves to be the most adept at fucking everyone else over. Them's the victors who writes the history books and the new law.
Human beings never, ever quit this squbble. Not so long as their are distinguishable groups. And the less there is to go around, the more discriminating we get. But we tend to be secure enough to be relatively civil at it only under the most Egaltarian systems.
Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,
Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)
Post by: try another castle on December 25, 2005, 11:41:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-24 17:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
Statistics show that for every white or asian caught shoplifting ten blacks do it and there are ten times more whites and asians. Less than 3% of the projects in the inner city are white occupied and in the largest cites there are no whites allowed . whites and asians can be rehabilitated blacks have not proven that they can no matter how much free housing they are given. Whites do not shoplift anywhere near the amount that blacks do . No black grocerys in south central los angeles and in many large citys because of shrinkage .
That may be so, but you are not contextualizing the problem. You are not taking into account WHY a large percentage of the black population lives in the inner cities or is poor. You are merely assuming it is something inherent in their race or persona, as opposed to the history of their population within this country.
I'm not saying it's ok to shoplift, and I'm not saying that these kids aren't being total thugs, or should get off without any punishment, but to assume that the black population is responsible for its own oppression is putting the cart before the horse. There may be individuals within the black community that help to perpetuate the stereotypes associated with black individuals, but their behavior is more a reaction to their history than something that initiates bigotry overall. Perpetuates, maybe. Initiates, no.
And most importantly, negative assumptions are made against black people all the time who have done nothing wrong at all. Are you to say that some punk who steals crap from a convenience store is somehow responsible for something a non-black does to some other black guy who has done nothing wrong? No. Why? Because an individual is innocent until proven guilty, and that assumption itself indicates racial bias. (Which everyone, by the way, has in this country, because of the history of the United States, and it has nothing to do with how blacks act. The racism preceded any person's negative experience interacting with a black person, and the black community itself experiences internalized racism.)
In addition, class and race are very closely allied in this country, because of the history of the black population as slaves. They are almost always conflated. No other minority in this country came into the new world as slaves, and as such, have had that stigma attached to them, and buried into their collective psyche. However, class is still the ultimate determining factor in terms of what kind of privilege you have. Doubt me? I have just two letters for you: O.J.
Also, I really don't care what the credentials are for this individual who has made this report in terms of your post. He may bring up some very valid points. I am speaking to the fact that YOU in particular have jumped on this issue, because of your previous instance in this forum of taking on the mexican issue. I question your motivation and agenda. It seems to me that you are more the opportunist who is willing to exploit any issue that supports your bias towards people who are not your own race, as opposed to the possible motivations of Dr. Sowell, who seems more interested in changing and critiquing the problems within the black community, because he has interest in self-awareness and empowerment of his own people. (That's not to say that people cannot critique the problems of a race that is not their own, however. They just need to be clear, just like anyone, on what their motivation is to do so.) If you post an article that discusses weaknesses and problems within your own racial community and population, then I might give your other opinions a little more consideration.
And I still maintain that most people are assholes, anyway.
Post by: Antigen on December 25, 2005, 01:31:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-25 08:41:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:
They are almost always conflated. No other minority in this country came into the new world as slaves, and as such, have had that stigma attached to them, and buried into their collective psyche.
That's not true at all. In the early generations of the great waves of immigration, we all were niggers. Papists, they called the Irish Catholics. Ever wonder about the origin of the term "Paddy Waggon"? And this is not a uniquely or even especially American thing. Every new culture that immigrates starts out at the bottom of the pecking order. The difference between black slavery and other immigrant populations in this country is the same as the difference between blacks in this country and blacks in our slave traiding senior parnter, Brazil. In this country, we politicized slavery to the level of civil war. In other countries, it just phased out with the times while they politicized other issues to justify their wars.
You ought to give Sowell a good reading. Of course, you'll never find an author or comedian with whom you agree all of the time. But this guy has some pretty good ideas, backed by accepted but often ignored historical facts.
Oh, and everyone is influenced by societies preconceived notions. When I changed my name from McNulty to Warbis the difference was stark. All of a sudden, I got a job interview just about every time I asked for one and got those jobs on the spot. Funny thing, though. Warbis is an English name; means War Boys and belongs to a well known village or tribe of kick ass mercinaries. But most people in Florida assumed it was Jewish.
Oh well, I consider them punked by their own bigotry. Same for the house I bought. Great place, lots of room, quiet, friendly neighborhood. Got it for a SONG cause Monessen has a "reputation". Ya' know, thar's niggahs thar! :rofl:
I heard that (and more!) from this little fucker who had just moved into Charleroi. I asked him why he picked that place, he told me "thar ain't no niggahs in Charleroi" :rofl: That's proabably close to true, too. Lot of black families, but really very few niggers. So, just short of 90 daze later, do you know that nigger's getting evicted for non payment of rent? Now he's living in a trailer w/ his wife and kid in a nearby town that's known to be extremely, violently racist.
So, Merry Christmass and God Bless! There's one less nigger in Charleroi!
:rofl:
The drug war places Leo in a round room and instructs him to piss in a corner.
--Antigen
Post by: empathy on December 25, 2005, 01:45:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on December 25, 2005, 03:29:00 PM
Our neighborhood is very mixed, but most of the residents inherited their homes from parents or moved from another part of town or the next one. It's the old Russian section of town. This house, built around 1920 or so, has only had two prior owners and the last one spent over 40 years raising a family here.
So our neighbors are the descendants of the occasional ancient Russian, the industrial revolution erra freed slaves, the steel boom Itallians (two varieties, they still keep seperate Sicilian and Italian clubs) and Slovaks, etc. There's even a Croatian club not far from the Nazi section. And I'm not kidding, these homes were built for the steel mill bosses and they're all German, Polish or something close, and quite the stereotypical variety. In that sense, my town is Brigadoon; it's like nothing has changed in 100 years in so many ways.
The public housing projects are mixed too. They're not all black, not by any stretch. In fact, I see more mixed couples around here than anywhere I've ever been. But they're all either refugees from "the city" (mostly Pittsburgh, but coloqually, "the city" might just as well mean New York or Philly or Chicago some other) or they're ppl from around here who have flunked out in some way. There they do have public brawls and robberies, occasionally (very occasionally) shootings, stabbings, drug busts and all that. Every new generation of refugees to any tribe of humans on this planet gets their hazing.
And small towns like this are, first and foremost, tribes unto themselves. The accepted members keep their drugging and brawling activities out of the public light, and they're allowed to do that. The recent immigrants and downwardly mobile are generally not given as much of that sort of consideration.
But we ain't got rampant crime and violence. In fact, we still pump our gas first, then go inside and pay. Lot of locals run credit accounts, too; often grown kids will pay their parents' accounts. Every little thing makes the local afternoon paper, right down to the Magistrate's log and town by town police digests, w/ full names, ages and addresses.
Don't get me wrong, this is not some prejudice free Utopia. Prejudice and race hate are rampant and fairly open around here. If you're looking for it (or even if you're not) you'll find it here. But it's not every damned body! Most people pay attention and judge others based on how they act.
Either cocaine and marijuana are terribly dangerous substances, and breaking the law by consuming them is a major offense that should be severely punished, or these are minor, personal matters that do not really count in the big picture of a man's life. If the latter is the case, then the rationale for a bloody, costly and futile war against drugs simply disappears.
--Jorge G. Castaneda, Newsweek International, September 6, 1999
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2005, 04:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-25 10:45:00, empathy wrote:
"you have to ask each and every liberal if they would live in a neighborhood that was mostly black . there are blacks who won't live there and no one ever demands that oprah winfrey live among blacks or even bill clinton or even bill cosby . america has to learn about blacks by moving into a black neighborhood with PUBLIC HOUSING NEARBY . "
I'm white and live in a neighborhood that's about 75% Black and things are just fine in these parts.
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2005, 08:23:00 PM
Post by: try another castle on December 26, 2005, 03:11:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-25 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-25 10:45:00, empathy wrote:
"you have to ask each and every liberal if they would live in a neighborhood that was mostly black . there are blacks who won't live there and no one ever demands that oprah winfrey live among blacks or even bill clinton or even bill cosby . america has to learn about blacks by moving into a black neighborhood with PUBLIC HOUSING NEARBY . "
I'm white and live in a neighborhood that's about 75% Black and things are just fine in these parts."
Yes, and I live in a neighborhood that is 90% latino, which a couple of gangs call their turf. I have lived here for 10 years, and it's a great neighborhood. There are lots of families here, and it's very convenient for me location-wise. The gang violence is almost nil, as well, and things have improved over the years. This neighborhood was definitely a move up from where I lived before, and I have rent control, so there is no way I could even afford to live anywhere else. Which is fine by me, because I'm happy here.
And empathy, (ironic choice of a username) you are still making the mistake I pointed out before. Are you talking about BLACK neighborhoods, or POOR neighborhoods? Once again, you assume that if a neighborhood is black, it is automatically, a. poor, and b. high in crime. Rather, you really only need the "poor" variable to increase the chances of a neighborhood being high in crime, but not always. Trust me, I've lived on skid row before. It was totally mixed-race. It was an extremely depressing neighborhood, with lots of heroin use and strung out hookers. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I had to clean junkie feces out of the apartment doorway. So in this case, the diverse neighborhood was much more high in crime and despair than where I live now, which is a neighborhood which consists primarily of one minority. And YES, I know there are many poor neighborhoods which are high in crime and also primarily black. I'm not stupid.
Of COURSE nobody is going to want to live in a neighborhood which is high crime, regardless of the color of the people living there. Did it ever occur to you that in the high crime neighborhoods and projects which are primarily black, the very residents who live there don't want to live there, either? Nobody chooses to live in a bad neighborhood if they can afford to live in a better one, no matter what their color or political affiliation. Truly, the only people who might deliberately choose to live in a bad neighborhood are the hipster bohemian types who like to go slumming. Or possibly people who lived in that neighborhood before it got bad, and don't want to move because their family has a history there.
Also, I was never actually taking issue with Sowell's article. I was taking issue with empathy's motivations to cite it. Especially since he seems to enjoy taking things out of context to advance his own questionable agenda.
Quote
That's not true at all. In the early generations of the great waves of immigration, we all were niggers. Papists, they called the Irish Catholics. Ever wonder about the origin of the term "Paddy Waggon"? And this is not a uniquely or even especially American thing. Every new culture that immigrates starts out at the bottom of the pecking order. The difference between black slavery and other immigrant populations in this country is the same as the difference between blacks in this country and blacks in our slave traiding senior parnter, Brazil. In this country, we politicized slavery to the level of civil war. In other countries, it just phased out with the times while they politicized other issues to justify their wars.
Actually, this backs up my original point. Many many ethnicities have immigrated to this country and faced oppression, yet eventually managed to improve their status economically. Yet a significant portion of the black population is still having difficulties. I believe it is because their subjectivity and history with this country is different. i.e. they were a slave population at one point, where the others were not. Empathy will most likely argue that it is because there is something inherently wrong with the black race that keeps them from getting their shit together. I argue that their history as slaves brings about additional complications when it comes to internalized racism within the community, that is inherently different from the internalized bigotry other ethnicities in this country faced, who did not have that added baggage of being slave labor at one point. I think that empathy is misinterpeting a lot of what Sowell is saying, because he is using it to make it fit his own bigotry, as opposed to understanding it within the context of internalized racism within the black community. I agree with Dr. Sowell that the blacks are really the only ones who can extricate themselves from their own victimhood, but I also agree that they face an opposition (internal and external) that is unique to the type of racism they deal with, versus what the other ethnicities in this country faced, because the blacks' history is so different from the those others who immigrated here.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:59 ]
Post by: bandit1978 on December 26, 2005, 04:14:00 AM
And while, of course, I know there are crazy people of all races... it's not the white people that I watch out for when I go outside at night.
Post by: try another castle on December 26, 2005, 04:47:00 AM
I also try to keep an eye out for body language and subtle cues to see if someone is checking me out as a potential mark. Maybe it's my years of living in new york, where anyone could potentially be a mugger, or worse.
Back to the neighborhood thing, did anyone hear that Chris Rock joke? "One day we saw a white family move in across the street. I thought 'Well... here comes the neighborhood.'"
Post by: The Liger on December 27, 2005, 06:59:00 PM
I sort of went off on a tangent there. The racism against blacks really shocks me. I didn't know until I went to law school that there are still KKK groups in the US and that people still burn crosses in black people's lawns. I thought all that stuff was over in the 60s, because I've been sheltered here in Hawaii. I mean, I knew that there was still racism in people's hearts, but I didn't know about that stuff. I actually thought that Hawaii was behind the times with the racism here. I also never thought I would hear young people taking on the ingnorant hatred that their ancestors had toward different races.
Post by: Antigen on December 27, 2005, 07:41:00 PM
::bwahaha2::
Time is running out. The Indians' botanical knowledge is disappearing even faster than the plants themselves.
--Richard Schultes, Harvard University educator, authority on medicinal plants
Post by: bandit1978 on December 28, 2005, 02:14:00 AM
I have been living in DC for 10 years or more. My parents are Irish, and from New York, and have always taught me that "everyone deserves an equal chance", and so on...plus we always prided ourselves on being from the north, and not being so racist ignorant, like those from the south. Like, when idiots in the south were having Klan meetings, my grandfather was serving as a judge and promoting civil rights.
In New York, we all learned to live together- Irish, Italians, Jewish, Greeks, ect...
However, where I live now, most of the crime is perpetrated by African-Americans...and I judge people based on how they act. I have lots and lots of African-American friends.
The other night, I really wanted to drive 4 blocks to 7-11 to get some cigarettes. I did not feel safe to walk nor drive those 4 blocks...and I'm from NY!
I did not create the social situation in my city, I just have to live with it.
In my neighborhood, 2 people (children) have been hit by "stray bullets" in the past 6 months, while sitting in their living rooms!
I know that there are "white ghettos", I mean, I'm Irish, after all! Inconveniently, the fact is that in my neighbood, most of the crime is perpetrated by African-Americans. So I invite you to come stay here for a month or so. Anytime! Then we can talk about "racism".
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2005, 10:23:00 AM
Look at the drug war article I just posted:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=22&0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13203&forum=22&0)
Quote
At the present time, one-fourth of all of the young black men in America are either in prison or on parole. Most of them were arrested on non-violent drug charges.
In Washington, DC, the Bush administration's "demonstration" city, half of all of the black men in the city are currently in jail or on parole. More than ninety percent have arrest records. The same is true of inner city black men in Baltimore, New York, New Jersey, and Florida.
Two-thirds of all of today's black male high school students will be dead, disabled, or in prison before their thirtieth birthday. The majority will go to prison because of non-violent drug charges. For every black man who goes to college, three will go to prison.
By the year 2000, about half of all black men in America will have gone to prison. Most of them will go to prison for non-violent drug charges. Most of those who go to prison will be released into society again.
No wonder there is so much crime amongst the black community!
No wonder white people feel threatened and naturally react to protect themselves.
So long as the blacks are subjegated and treated so unfairly by our society, things will stay the way they are or get worse.
We need to be mad at our policy makers and politicians more than anyone.
We should give them a fair chance at life, instead of locking them up making them permanently unemployable.
It's a lose-lose situation.
Racism is only a symptom of a greater problem!!!
:eek:
Post by: Deborah on December 28, 2005, 12:45:00 PM
If our attention weren't on blacks (and other minorities/poor) crimes, we might pay more attention to white collar crimes- the HAVES who are responsible for far more injuries and death every year due to bad policies, pollution, faulty products, unsafe drugs and food stuff, harmful and unnecessary medical procedures, etc. etc. etc.
Or those have who 'steal' from the 'people' everyday through Corp Welfare.
We focus on crimes of minorities and poor because that's what the corp predators put on the news every night, san the occassional scandel where one of the own is scapegoated.
I think we'd have a far less 'violent' society if some of the wealth skimmed by the elite were distributed amongst those WHO CAN'T PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES ON MINIMUM WAGE.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? ... /07/033241 (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/033241)
THE BARONS OF BANKRUPTCY: SURVIVORS WHO LAUGHED ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK
They are the barons of bankruptcy - a privileged group of top business people who made extraordinary personal fortunes even as their companies were heading for disaster. They made their money at the top of the market, selling shares in companies whose values rocketed in 1999 and 2000. Today their companies, many in the telecommunications sector, have crashed, destroying hundreds of billions of dollars of investor wealth and almost 100,000 jobs. Yet the executives and directors of these bankrupt companies have walked away with gross earnings of $3.3 billion, a stunning pay-off for corporate failure.
This is how a report in yesterday's Financial Times begins. It's part of an exhaustive inquiry by the Financial Times into executive compensation at the largest US bankruptcies, covering the 25 largest US public Companies to go bankrupt since January 2001.
Among the barons of bankruptcy are some familiar names. Ken Lay, former chairman and CEO of Enron, grossed $247 million. Jeff Skilling, former Enron president, grossed $89 million. Even these figures are dwarfed by the $512 million grossed by Gary Winnick of Global Crossing.
***
CORP PREDATORS
Top 100 Corp Criminals List for the 90's
http://corporatepredators.org/top100.html (http://corporatepredators.org/top100.html)
Excerpts:
The point of the list contained in this report, The Top 100 Corporate Criminals of the Decade -- is to focus public attention on a wave of corporate criminality that has swamped prosecutors offices around the country.
This is the dark underside of the marketplace that is given little sustained attention and analysis by politicians and news outlets.
To compile The Top 100 Corporate Criminals of the 1990s, we used the most narrow and conservative of definitions -- corporations that have pled guilty or no contest to crimes and have been criminally fined.
The 100 corporate criminals fell into 14 categories of crime: Environmental (38), antitrust (20), fraud (13), campaign finance (7), food and drug (6), financial crimes (4), false statements (3), illegal exports (3), illegal boycott (1), worker death (1), bribery (1), obstruction of justice (1) public corruption (1), and tax evasion (1).
And that emerging consensus is this: corporate crime and violence inflicts far more damage on society than all street crime combined.
The FBI estimates, for example, that burglary and robbery ? street crimes -- costs the nation $3.8 billion a year.
Compare this to the hundreds of billions of dollars stolen from Americans as a result of corporate and white-collar fraud.
Recite this list of corporate frauds and people will immediately say to you: but you can't compare street crime and corporate crime -- corporate crime is not violent crime.
Unfortunately, corporate crime is often violent crime.
The FBI estimates that, 19,000 Americans are murdered every year. Compare this to the 56,000 Americans who die every year on the job or from occupational diseases such as black lung and asbestosis and the tens of thousands of other Americans who fall victim to the silent violence of pollution, contaminated foods, hazardous consumer products, and hospital malpractice.
Click on the link above to see if any of your favorites made the list.
Post by: Antigen on December 28, 2005, 01:44:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-28 09:45:00, Deborah wrote:
Recite this list of corporate frauds and people will immediately say to you: but you can't compare street crime and corporate crime -- corporate crime is not violent crime.
Unfortunately, corporate crime is often violent crime.
The FBI estimates that, 19,000 Americans are murdered every year. Compare this to the 56,000 Americans who die every year on the job or from occupational diseases such as black lung and asbestosis and the tens of thousands of other Americans who fall victim to the silent violence of pollution, contaminated foods, hazardous consumer products, and hospital malpractice.
Click on the link above to see if any of your favorites made the list.
More to the point, how many people have beceme ill or even died because they lost their pensions (well... not lost, exactly. we know right where the money is, it just no longer belongs to the hard workin' sops who earned it) and couldn't afford adequate heat, clothing, medical care, etc? Countless. Ask some pensioner who's stealing cat food for a living how unviolent corporate crime is.
say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile.
--Kurt Vonnegut, American author
Post by: empathy on December 28, 2005, 04:13:00 PM
In this light, the imprisonment of black people takes on political consequence. Cosby may be right that most black folk in jail are not "political prisoners," but it doesn't mean that their imprisonment has not been politicized. Given the vicious way blacks have been targeted for incarceration, Cosby's comments about poor blacks who end up in jail are dangerously naïve and empirically wrong.
Cosby also slights the economic, social, political and other structural barriers that poor black parents are up against: welfare reform, dwindling resources, export of jobs and ongoing racial stigma. And then there are the problems of the working poor: folk who rise up early every day and often work more than forty hours a week, and yet barely, if ever, make it above the poverty level. We must acknowledge the plight of both poor black (single) mothers and poor black fathers, and the lack of social support they confront. Hence, it is incredibly difficult to spend as much time with children as poor black parents might like, especially since they will be demonized if they fail to provide for their children's basic needs. But doing so deflects critical attention and time from child-rearing duties?duties that are difficult enough for two-parent, two-income, intact middle-class families. The characteristics Cosby cites are typical of all families that confront poverty the world over. They are not indigenous to the black poor; they are symptomatic of the predicament of poor people in general. And Cosby's mean-spirited characterizations of the black poor as licentious, sexually promiscuous, materialistic and wantonly irresponsible can be made of all classes in the nation. (Paris Hilton, after all, is a huge star for just these reasons.)
[ This Message was edited by: empathy on 2005-12-28 13:58 ]
Post by: try another castle on December 28, 2005, 05:47:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2006, 01:36:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2006, 02:43:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2006, 11:12:08 PM
Quote from: ""Cassandra""
There was a time in this country when our foreign dignataries could honestly answer questions about poverty in America with "We'll let you know when we see some." What were we doing differently then? It wasn't welfare or any other socialist programs. It was what the Europeans kept calling squalor and anarchy till they needed us to intervene in their world war. And we've been in hock and at war ever since.
<
In hock to the original racists, the jews, with their elitist religion and sceming, usurious ways. They foment racism and class division for the benefit of Israel.
They knew about 9/11 but said nothing so as to get an American army in that part of the world to do their bidding.
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2006, 11:19:34 PM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
I am speaking to the fact that YOU in particular have jumped on this issue, because of your previous instance in this forum of taking on the mexican issue. I question your motivation and agenda. It seems to me that you are more the opportunist who is willing to exploit any issue that supports your bias towards people who are not your own race,......If you post an article that discusses weaknesses and problems within your own racial community and population, then I might give your other opinions a little more consideration.
.
Hey, lets watch the world-wise and media savvy Jew take on the inscrutable Asian in a discussion about Negro shoplifters and spic gangbangers.!!!!! "Try another Castle" gets bonus points for being a fag. You minorities crack me up. Signed, Whitey
Post by: Bluechair666 on November 03, 2006, 08:04:25 PM
I want to see your cities abandoned and decaying in the wind, and the corpses of your ugly children burning on stakes with dogs slathering below for a morsel. I want in my life time to be able to ride my bicycle down the interstate because you are all just smelly abandoned skeletons sitting there rotting in your cars, while crows peck at the glass trying to get to your eyeballs while they are still juicy. i want to set fire to the houses you used to live in when i want to stay warm or read a book. You are all worthless, and if you want to make the world a better place, then I think you know what to do. Sorry Cassandra, you seem cool, but the rest of you are kooks, and should kill yourselves.
Have a nice day.
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2006, 04:15:56 AM
Quote from: ""empathy""
If the rigidly segregated educational system continues to miserably fail poor blacks by failing to prepare their children for the world of work, then admonitions to "stay in school" may ring hollow.
The rigidly segregated, social engineering experiment that is our Prussian based school system will continue to fail all of the overly pathologized, studied, readjusted children. But that doesn't mean the school system is a failure. Not at all. To look at it another way, our school system is a booming success, it's just that the designers' and gatekeeprs' interests are not the same as yours or our kids'.
Think about it for a moment in the simplest of terms. He who pays the piper he calls the tune. Uncle Sam is footing this bill. So what interest does govenment have in the 'proper' education of our children and what are the interests of families, friends and home towns?
I want my kids to be clever, confident, clear headed, ambitious, skeptical and powerful. Governments was people to be obedient, predictable, unquestioning of authority, maliable and directable.
I think Cosby is a fucking sanctimonious idiot who Uncle Tomed his way to third base and thinks he hit a home run. But there's a grain of truth to what he's saying, whether he understands it in this context or not (I strongly suspect not). Regardless of the root causes of social breakdown and overall environment our kids have to deal with, they still have to deal with it. They grow up fast and this is going to take a long, long time to change. We'll be old, tired and irrelavent when they take over and run things. We need for them to be clever, confident, clear headed, ambitious, skeptical and powerful.
So get your kids out of school or at least talk turkey with them about these things.
Post by: Carmel on November 05, 2006, 09:02:38 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""empathy""If the rigidly segregated educational system continues to miserably fail poor blacks by failing to prepare their children for the world of work, then admonitions to "stay in school" may ring hollow.
The rigidly segregated, social engineering experiment that is our Prussian based school system will continue to fail all of the overly pathologized, studied, readjusted children. But that doesn't mean the school system is a failure. Not at all. To look at it another way, our school system is a booming success, it's just that the designers' and gatekeeprs' interests are not the same as yours or our kids'.
Think about it for a moment in the simplest of terms. He who pays the piper he calls the tune. Uncle Sam is footing this bill. So what interest does govenment have in the 'proper' education of our children and what are the interests of families, friends and home towns?
I want my kids to be clever, confident, clear headed, ambitious, skeptical and powerful. Governments was people to be obedient, predictable, unquestioning of authority, maliable and directable.
I think Cosby is a fucking sanctimonious idiot who Uncle Tomed his way to third base and thinks he hit a home run. But there's a grain of truth to what he's saying, whether he understands it in this context or not (I strongly suspect not). Regardless of the root causes of social breakdown and overall environment our kids have to deal with, they still have to deal with it. They grow up fast and this is going to take a long, long time to change. We'll be old, tired and irrelavent when they take over and run things. We need for them to be clever, confident, clear headed, ambitious, skeptical and powerful.
So get your kids out of school or at least talk turkey with them about these things.
This makes a lot of sense, however its fundamentally innaccurate. WE foot the bill, the government is just the middleman.
Somewhere around 80% of mine an yours truly's property taxes go to our local public school districts. Public school isnt "free", we pay for it....we pay out the nose actually. We pay whether we have children or not, in school or not, grown and in their 40's or not. I am currently trying to find some miracle windfall this year to pay our 6,000 property tax bill that will go almost exclusively to the school district. My son is only 3, and I pay for him to attend private day-care.
Okay, so the state lottery contributes to education as well, but who contributes to the lottery?
People should be up in arms, and education is just one of a long list of issues we should be demanding more control over.
Along the vein of education, look at the prison system and what we pay for there. Some sorry sap gets 5-10 for some jackass drug charge and who supports him? We do. Who foots the bill for his GED when he decides he wants to get it? We do. Who pays for his college correspondence courses so when his time is up he can emerge into the world a well-fed, fully educated felon? We do. I dont think the asshole should be in prison to begin with....but we gotta start somewhere, and when it comes to our tax dollars we are being fleeced to no end. Especially when it comes to education.
Post by: Carmel on November 05, 2006, 09:15:51 AM
I dont ever feel it necessary to differentiate by color or physical attributes when discerning someones character. HOWEVER, culture and someones behavior based on such, is something I do take into account when forming judgement on someones interaction with me. Basically, everyone gets the same chance with me until they open their mouth. For example: There are alot of african-american men who approach me and behave overly invasive with their actions and comments. It makes me very uncomfortable to be approached in this manner, no matter the mans race. Its up to me, however to refrain from automatically making an unfavorable judgement on any black male that approaches me. I am just as likely to be approached in this manner by a white guy or hispanic guy, but I only have my personal experience to work from. Its a cultural issue...some people behave a certain way within their own culture and it is perfectly acceptable, whereas someone outside of that might feel uncomfortable. This has nothing to do with color, but culture instead....and we all have a culture.
I am Hispanic-American myself, and I see all manner of ignorant behavior based on race, even just within my own culture. Ive mentioned this before in other threads, that there isnt just cross-racial racism, there is inner-racial racism too. Thats something that really sends me flying trying to understand.
Post by: Anonymous on November 06, 2006, 11:00:04 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 16, 2006, 01:20:57 PM
black racism is a plague, and a cultural one. there is a profound cultural deficit in the black community.
i live in an asian community, never would i consider assault, courtesy is the norm, indeed, it is simply assumed that i would never insult them, nor they me, they may not particularly like me, but one thing stands out.. they are a war-like people, and, as such i may never insult their women, nor will they ever insult mine.. admire them, sure, , but never insult. i'm actually kind of proud of them, and although that sounds patronizing, it's not meant to be,.
i've got a couple black buddies, who can'[t even walk un-armed in their own neighborhoods.. and cosby is vilified, and sowell.
god forbid i should walk with them.
Post by: Anonymous on November 23, 2006, 11:25:13 PM
Quote
they may not particularly like me
Nobody likes you Art
Post by: Anonymous on January 18, 2012, 11:53:06 PM