Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2005, 05:21:00 PM
I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.
One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers. That was a HOOT. We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter. The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab". One family called the NEWS to come film us. Loved it.
Merry Christmas all.
Post by: TimeBomb on December 23, 2005, 11:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there. A few of the other 5% post on this site. Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.
I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.
One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers. That was a HOOT. We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter. The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab". One family called the NEWS to come film us. Loved it.
Merry Christmas all."
I wasn't there during Christmas, but the cold weather does bring back some memories.
I really enjoyed the way they always opened up the windows in the rap room and turned on the ceiling fans on those cold days. The fact that you couldn't wear a jacket really made it so much more pleasant.
And being constipated for the first few weeks sure added to the effect. The feeling of togetherness -- while sitting on the toilet and being watched. Yeah, those were the good old days.
Oh, how I miss them.
Post by: Antigen on December 23, 2005, 11:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a different cult entirely. Just wait! We're gonna take over the world!"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
All religions bear traces of the fact that they arose during the intellectual immaturity of the human race - before it had learned the obligations to speak the truth. Not one of them makes it the duty of its God to be truthful and understandable in his communications.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
Post by: Napolean Bonafart on December 24, 2005, 12:38:00 AM
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.
--H.L. Mencken
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 24, 2005, 07:43:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there. A few of the other 5% post on this site.
What is this "hate and rage" thing? You think anyone who has an opinion that doesn't jibe with yours is full of hate and rage? Boy, you really DO apply your program, dontcha?
Do you know these percentages for a fact, or is it just that you're doing a headcount of Fornits usernames versus how many people show up to your cult - I mean - caroling events? That's hardly an accurate statistical method.
I personally know of five people off the top of my head who are neither on Fornits, and very much doubt they're singing next to you today either. Wow.. what's it been... twenty some odd years, and you people are still playing "Lets have a song"?
Quite amusing.
Quote
Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.
I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.
One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers. That was a HOOT. We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter. The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab". One family called the NEWS to come film us. Loved it.
Merry Christmas all."
I can relate! :grin:
I remember years ago I was at this party, and this guy there looked really familiar. Long story short we kept this "Don't I know you from somewhere..." thing going all night long.
After a few beers he stepped out to have a toke with some others who indulged, and came back in. I think it was simultaneous at that moment - we both pointed at each other yelled out loud, "OH...MY... GOD"
He said "I never saw you with makeup!", I said "Jesus, D. weren't you on Staff?"
Talk about a good laugh. Then he introduced me to three other 7th steppers from before my time. It was a little surreal sharing a glass of wine with these folks (was a little strange making out with D - but DAMN he was a good kisser.. but I digress), but it certainly beat KoolAid. I think it was a 1988 Cabernet.
Merry Christmas you guys... wherever you may be.
I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
Post by: TimeBomb on December 24, 2005, 01:01:00 PM
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 24, 2005, 11:15:00 PM
Quote
... The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab".
This is interesting. I was told by a certain staff member that LIFE was thought of as a "drug rehab" but actually focused on self-esteem, decision making and communication issues.
Can you explain why this staffer would downplay the "drug rehab" part?
I'm being serious, and I'm not bashing. Can we for once have an intelligent discussion in this thread?
If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education
--Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2005, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 25, 2005, 08:31:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-25 07:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"yes, I suppose that's true. It was titled a drug rehab but really the stuff discussed mostly in raps and groups were emotions, self esteem type things. Drugs weren't the focus."
So why is it the "Drug list" was a focus? Why were we asked weekly to update our "drug lists" and report "stashes" before open meetings? Why were we confronted on issues that might have involved drugs (vaguely)... like music, clothing, bedroom color schemes...etc? Why where things such as memories, friends, images, etc., prefaced with "druggie"??
If "Drug Rehab" was such a secondary focus, then why wasn't your first answer to "Are you from a church" - "No, we're from an emotional growth / self esteem / feel-good-because-we're-not -abusing-our-parents-anymore "school""??
Why is that?
If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2005, 10:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-25 17:31:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-25 07:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"yes, I suppose that's true. It was titled a drug rehab but really the stuff discussed mostly in raps and groups were emotions, self esteem type things. Drugs weren't the focus."
So why is it the "Drug list" was a focus? Why were we asked weekly to update our "drug lists" and report "stashes" before open meetings? Why were we confronted on issues that might have involved drugs (vaguely)... like music, clothing, bedroom color schemes...etc? Why where things such as memories, friends, images, etc., prefaced with "druggie"??
If "Drug Rehab" was such a secondary focus, then why wasn't your first answer to "Are you from a church" - "No, we're from an emotional growth / self esteem / feel-good-because-we're-not -abusing-our-parents-anymore "school""??
Why is that?If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,"
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
lol shit girl, lighten up. you sound a little crazed. yes, drugs were discussed and that program was listed as a drug rehab, but people don't typically use drugs when life is good and they're happy and content. it's a bi-product of lousy decisions, loneliness, self doubt, etc. think the point was to get to why people used. no brainer. no big whoop.
Post by: Antigen on December 25, 2005, 11:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-25 19:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
lol shit girl, lighten up. you sound a little crazed.
No, not crazed at all.
Quote
yes, drugs were discussed and that program was listed as a drug rehab, but people don't typically use drugs when life is good and they're happy and content. it's a bi-product of lousy decisions, loneliness, self doubt, etc.
No? Then why are drugs such a pervasive part of celebration all over the world and down through history?
Quote
think the point was to get to why people used. no brainer. no big whoop. "
Really? I think the point was to make a disease for which only Helen Peterman and George Ross had the cure out of nothing, then get rich stroking their own egos about how they were saving these worthless others. Same as any other hysterical, delusional self appointed gurus.
Gee, I wonder if, in all those years, Helen and George might have had a li'll thang going. Ever wonder about that?
Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2005, 11:47:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-25 20:45:00, Antigen wrote:
Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
Aw, come on! Tell me you didn't pick that one! :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2005, 11:19:00 AM
As for her and Ross having a fling? WHO gives a shit if they did or didn't?! Go back to your soap operas Ginger. It's really not something I've pondered in life.
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 26, 2005, 11:41:00 AM
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lol shit girl, lighten up. you sound a little crazed.
First off, I'm not "crazed" - I just wanted to discuss the discrepancy. It's called debate. The politicians you voted for do the same thing.
Quote
yes, drugs were discussed and that program was listed as a drug rehab, but people don't typically use drugs when life is good and they're happy and content. it's a bi-product of lousy decisions, loneliness, self doubt, etc. think the point was to get to why people used. no brainer. no big whoop. "
Well I know that's what you were taught to believe in the program, but the fact is that a percentage people simply like the sensation of their drug of choice.
We were also taught that any use of a legal drug constituted "Druggie-ness", even if you sipped champagne at the family dinner table on special occasions. Don't you think that's a little over the top?
Ya gotta wonder about the self-esteem boosting practice of calling someone FOS because they hadn't done drugs, followed by the group of teenage experts engaging in ridiculing and belitting so they can get at "the truth".
And what about the kids that "used" because the parents were the problem? What kind of marathon grilling did bad parents get when they were full of shit?
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
--Unanimous
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 26, 2005, 12:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 08:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Anyone who thinks old Pete got rich from her days at LIFE needs to go back to a basic math class.
My stay was around 3K a month, and the fees were based on income.
Now, knowing I lived in an apartment really close to Newtown (For the uninitiated, this is the "Low Rent" district of Sarasota) with a single parent, It follows that some may have paid more than that.
So lets assume we got 100 kids
33 pay 1000 who are dirt poor (I never saw these types, judging from the 20 foot ceilings of most of the host homes, but we'll assume they existed.) $33,000 per month for LIFE
34 Pay 3000 who are middle class schleps living in the run down areas so they can save money to give their children such a fine opportunity to participate in LIFE. $102,000 for LIFE
33 Pay 5000 - These are the people with the huge houses with the high tech security systems, and the extended seating van that they just purchased in addition to their two Mercedes - for the occasion of becoming "Program Parents.
$165,000 for LIFE.
Can anyone here add three positive integers together and tell me how much that program was bringing in on a monthly basis, and where all the money went?
Quote
As for her and Ross having a fling? WHO gives a shit if they did or didn't?! Go back to your soap operas Ginger. It's really not something I've pondered in life."
I've never pondered this either. But in all the stuff I've read about Ross and Petermann, I never once read where Ross was blind! :grin:
[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2005, 01:51:00 PM
Now once Venice hospital took over I can't tell you what the fee was raised to, as I'm sure it WAS raised. Hospitals ALWAYS charge more. Palms was about $10,000 a month back then (as I had a friend who went there) They'd use up your insurance , then release ya. But old Pete was long gone from LIFE by then.
DO you REALLY think your mom paid $3000 a MONTH? How long were you there? AT 6 months, that would be $16,000 . IN the 80's that would be a NICE income. Living in lower income sections of Sarasota I seriously doubt your mom came up with that. Payment was 50% up front and 50% within 30 days to remain in program. It wasn't "monthly".
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 26, 2005, 04:18:00 PM
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rofl. Helena, you are WAY WAY off. Try $3,000 for the entire program, however long you took there (plus $50 to &100 a month food). You are really ignorant if you really think it cost $3,000 a month there. HA Your mom must have really snowed you (IF that's where you got that figure from). AND, there was no additional fee for those who graduated and then needed to come back for refreshers, etc. It was a LIFETIME fee.
Ok fine, and no, I don't believe my mother snowed me. I think she really believes it - kinda like she really believed I was a druggie whore who was out to "railroad" her. But I digress.
So if there was a flat $3000 fee, where does this sliding scale come in? I am certain I saw "Sliding Fee Scale" documented someplace.
Quote
Now once Venice hospital took over I can't tell you what the fee was raised to, as I'm sure it WAS raised. Hospitals ALWAYS charge more. Palms was about $10,000 a month back then (as I had a friend who went there) They'd use up your insurance , then release ya. But old Pete was long gone from LIFE by then.
DO you REALLY think your mom paid $3000 a MONTH? How long were you there? AT 6 months, that would be $16,000 . IN the 80's that would be a NICE income. Living in lower income sections of Sarasota I seriously doubt your mom came up with that. Payment was 50% up front and 50% within 30 days to remain in program. It wasn't "monthly".
"
Hey, I'm telling you what I was told, and I filled in the sliding scale portion with stuff I saw with my own eyes.
So how many new kids were reigned in every month?
at 10 kids a month, that's still 30,000. If no one made money, then where did it go? I understand Paid staff only made minimum wage, which was $3.35 an hour in '84.
The building alone sold in 1992 for more than 2 million dollars, and corporations generally sell for more than the price of a building. Where did that money go?
The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2005, 06:21:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 13:18:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"Quote
rofl. Helena, you are WAY WAY off. Try $3,000 for the entire program, however long you took there (plus $50 to &100 a month food). You are really ignorant if you really think it cost $3,000 a month there. HA Your mom must have really snowed you (IF that's where you got that figure from). AND, there was no additional fee for those who graduated and then needed to come back for refreshers, etc. It was a LIFETIME fee.
Ok fine, and no, I don't believe my mother snowed me. I think she really believes it - kinda like she really believed I was a druggie whore who was out to "railroad" her. But I digress.
So if there was a flat $3000 fee, where does this sliding scale come in? I am certain I saw "Sliding Fee Scale" documented someplace.QuoteNow once Venice hospital took over I can't tell you what the fee was raised to, as I'm sure it WAS raised. Hospitals ALWAYS charge more. Palms was about $10,000 a month back then (as I had a friend who went there) They'd use up your insurance , then release ya. But old Pete was long gone from LIFE by then.
DO you REALLY think your mom paid $3000 a MONTH? How long were you there? AT 6 months, that would be $16,000 . IN the 80's that would be a NICE income. Living in lower income sections of Sarasota I seriously doubt your mom came up with that. Payment was 50% up front and 50% within 30 days to remain in program. It wasn't "monthly".
"
Hey, I'm telling you what I was told, and I filled in the sliding scale portion with stuff I saw with my own eyes.
So how many new kids were reigned in every month?
at 10 kids a month, that's still 30,000. If no one made money, then where did it go? I understand Paid staff only made minimum wage, which was $3.35 an hour in '84.
The building alone sold in 1992 for more than 2 million dollars, and corporations generally sell for more than the price of a building. Where did that money go?The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic."
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist
Well I wasn't the accountant there, but wasn't there about 4 Executive staff (Peterman, Rozelle, DeClue, Huntley, Griffith) or more? Then 10 or so peer staff, Ms Robb (kitchen), a receptionist, a Nurse. Utilities, It adds up. No one got rich off those fees.
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 26, 2005, 08:30:00 PM
Quote
Well I wasn't the accountant there, but wasn't there about 4 Executive staff (Peterman, Rozelle, DeClue, Huntley, Griffith) or more? Then 10 or so peer staff, Ms Robb (kitchen), a receptionist, a Nurse. Utilities, It adds up. No one got rich off those fees."
So where did the 2 million go from the sale to Venice Regional?
All that aside - yes, I know it costs money to run any business, and a lot of people in business are barely breaking even.
I think the big issue is: $3000 for what? I personally NEVER saw a licensed psychologist while I was there - in fact, I never heard the name DeClue until my mother brought it up 21 years later. The other executive staff? Never heard of 'em.
So in effect, these parents shelled out 3000 bucks to have their kids verbally decimated by other kids, then end each day with more of the same while at the host home - depending on the ego needs of the oldcomer.
It's really not about the money - it's about the quality of the treatment.
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2005, 08:43:00 PM
Quote
So how many new kids were reigned in every month?
at 10 kids a month, that's still 30,000. If no one made money, then where did it go? I understand Paid staff only made minimum wage, which was $3.35 an hour in '84.
<(
Actually peer staff didn't even make minimum wage. They got paid salary and it worked out to just under $2 per hour most of the time. When I was on staff, I got paid about $400 a month and I worked over 50 hours per week. But we weren't allowed to talk to each other about pay. So I haven't a clue as to what others got paid.
Post by: Antigen on December 26, 2005, 09:25:00 PM
Most of these groups do wind up with a handful of people at the top becoming very wealthy. That's just human nature. When you've got a herd of mindfucked followers willing to do anything, pay anything, beg, borrow and embelish for the cause AND who will reliably tell you you're right no matter how much you may come off like Donald Rumsfeld, it's practically inevitable that you'll allow them to make you very wealthy.
I'd be interested to see just who fucked who and where the money went in this little substory.
A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2005, 10:02:00 PM
Anon , what year(s) were you on staff?
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 26, 2005, 10:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 19:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Where did the 2 million figure come from for the sale of the program?
Anon , what year(s) were you on staff?"
Public records, m'friend! (http://http://www.sarasotaproperty.net/scpa_transfers.asp?account=78090&year=2005)
Verbatim: http://www.sarasotaproperty.net/scpa_tr ... &year=2005 (http://www.sarasotaproperty.net/scpa_transfers.asp?account=78090&year=2005)
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 26, 2005, 10:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 18:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"Ya' know, we really could use some solid figures in this discussion. Anybody inclined to get the tax returns from IRS? If LIFE was non-profit, they're public info.
Oh you mean actual facts? :grin: Shouldn't be difficult.
Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 19:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Where did the 2 million figure come from for the sale of the program?
Anon , what year(s) were you on staff?"
Late 88 and all of 89.
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2005, 12:42:00 AM
Quote
My stay was around 3K a month, and the fees were based on income.
My mother and I were talking about this today. My mom told me that she had to put $3,000 down and then paid another $3,000 or so in monthly payments plus $100 per month for food and then a couple of hundred to stay at the rez for a month. My mother in law had a family member who went through the program shortly after I was there and his parents paid almost $10,000 for his stay. At least that is what my mother in law said.
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2005, 12:13:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-27 21:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
My stay was around 3K a month, and the fees were based on income.
My mother and I were talking about this today. My mom told me that she had to put $3,000 down and then paid another $3,000 or so in monthly payments plus $100 per month for food and then a couple of hundred to stay at the rez for a month. My mother in law had a family member who went through the program shortly after I was there and his parents paid almost $10,000 for his stay. At least that is what my mother in law said. "
damn I find that HARD to believe. How long were you there? How much did they shell out? What kind of work did your mom do (that she cold afford $3000 a MONTH)?
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2005, 07:49:00 PM
*Well... I meant to tell you that I think you are very close on your figures. I seem to remember it being $3000 to $3600 or $3800 when you went in. That was a one time fee, plus monthly food costs, etc. I remember the O'Rawes talking about the cost going up quite a bit when the Venice Hospital got involved. *
This was in the mid 80's.
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2005, 08:59:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-28 09:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-27 21:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
My stay was around 3K a month, and the fees were based on income.
My mother and I were talking about this today. My mom told me that she had to put $3,000 down and then paid another $3,000 or so in monthly payments plus $100 per month for food and then a couple of hundred to stay at the rez for a month. My mother in law had a family member who went through the program shortly after I was there and his parents paid almost $10,000 for his stay. At least that is what my mother in law said. "
damn I find that HARD to believe. How long were you there? How much did they shell out? What kind of work did your mom do (that she cold afford $3000 a MONTH)?"
No I meant that she had to pay another $3000 in monthly payments. I think she paid 12 installments to get to the $3,000. Not actually $3,000 per month. Sorry that wasn't more clear.
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2005, 09:51:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-28 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-28 09:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-27 21:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
My stay was around 3K a month, and the fees were based on income.
My mother and I were talking about this today. My mom told me that she had to put $3,000 down and then paid another $3,000 or so in monthly payments plus $100 per month for food and then a couple of hundred to stay at the rez for a month. My mother in law had a family member who went through the program shortly after I was there and his parents paid almost $10,000 for his stay. At least that is what my mother in law said. "
damn I find that HARD to believe. How long were you there? How much did they shell out? What kind of work did your mom do (that she cold afford $3000 a MONTH)?"
No I meant that she had to pay another $3000 in monthly payments. I think she paid 12 installments to get to the $3,000. Not actually $3,000 per month. Sorry that wasn't more clear."
yes - that's what I understood you to say and I say DAMN. How long were you in the program? At 6 months, that's 18,000 PLUS! What did your mom do (career wise)??
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2005, 10:05:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-28 18:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-28 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-28 09:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-27 21:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
My stay was around 3K a month, and the fees were based on income.
My mother and I were talking about this today. My mom told me that she had to put $3,000 down and then paid another $3,000 or so in monthly payments plus $100 per month for food and then a couple of hundred to stay at the rez for a month. My mother in law had a family member who went through the program shortly after I was there and his parents paid almost $10,000 for his stay. At least that is what my mother in law said. "
damn I find that HARD to believe. How long were you there? How much did they shell out? What kind of work did your mom do (that she cold afford $3000 a MONTH)?"
No I meant that she had to pay another $3000 in monthly payments. I think she paid 12 installments to get to the $3,000. Not actually $3,000 per month. Sorry that wasn't more clear."
yes - that's what I understood you to say and I say DAMN. How long were you in the program? At 6 months, that's 18,000 PLUS! What did your mom do (career wise)??"
My mom says that she spent around $7,500 for everything while I was in the program. She was a social worker at Venice Hospital. I know that she could barely afford the $300+ monthly payments that kept me in the program and that she had to borrow money to pay for the down payment. From start to finish, I was in the program from January 25, 1988 to May 5, 1989. She has told me several times in the past 18 years that from the first Monday night parent rap, she knew that I was in the wrong place but she felt pressured from the doctors that she worked with to keep me there and that I would "probably" develop a drug problem if she took me out. Eventually we just got caught up being part of the program and believed what they said.
Post by: Anonymous on December 29, 2005, 06:09:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 29, 2005, 09:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-29 15:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
So are you telling us that your were brainwashed to train for staff, then be on staff Cristin? And brainwashed to go to all the 6 phase/7step functions, parties?"
I didn't say brainwash. I said caught up. I adapted. I didn't cause trouble and I didn't bring attention to myself. I did what I had to do to not ever get in trouble or stood up and confronted. Before I knew it, I had adapted to the life. I developed friendships with the people that went through their phases at the same time I did so, of course, I went places with them.
Post by: Anonymous on December 29, 2005, 09:53:00 PM
so, do you think you're worse off for being in LIFE?
Post by: Anonymous on December 29, 2005, 11:32:00 PM
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On 2005-12-29 18:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
I would think a social worker would be able to determine if a program was good or abusive for their child.
so, do you think you're worse off for being in LIFE?"
One would think a social worke would be able to determine that but she didn't. She trusted the doctors that told her that was the place for me. Do I think the program helped me? I don't know. I know that I learned more about drugs there than anywhere on my own. I did more drugs after the program than I did before. I also know that when I had a chance to grow up, I did and was fine. I think I would have been absolutely fine without LIFE and probably would have saved myself some trouble had I never gone there in the first place.
Post by: Antigen on December 30, 2005, 01:22:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-29 18:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
I would think a social worker would be able to determine if a program was good or abusive for their child.
Ok, so you're an idiot.
All thinking men are atheists.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author
Post by: Antigen on December 30, 2005, 01:33:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-29 18:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
I didn't say brainwash. I said caught up. I adapted.
Same thing, really. Look, on some level, in some aspects of life, everybody's brainwashed. Life in this world is just too complex for anyone to carefully reason out every mood, opinion and plan. So we default to certain norms. Why do you think that some vast majority of new parents agree to let the medical people mame their newborn son's dicks? They're brainwashed; the doctors, the staff, the parents, all of us.
If I had a son after about 10 years ago or so, his little dick would be intact or some high falutin' doctor would be bleeding and screaming more than that, b'lieve it! But prior to that? Anybody's guess. I did, after all, send my first born to Broward County public schools. I just didn't know any better and didn't question authority or the status quo.
We all get caught up in whatever's around us and we all adapt. Read Sam Clemens' Corn Pone Opinions. I know the Gutenburg Project has it online cause I typed it in back in the stone ages of internet access, before everybody had an OCR scanner.
It's only when those customs and conventions prove extremely harmful that any human beings protest to entheusiastically or for too long to just fade away. I could be mistaken, I have been before. But I really think this is one of those instances. This is intolerable. It doesn't work. For WWASPies and LGA/Lifespring believers, these are non-working programs. The whole ideology of protracted childhood and abstinace freaks is off kilter with the hard and fast, imutable laws of the universe.
None of us have to do anything spectacular or heroic to fix this. We just all have to summarily reject the Program in totem, rais our own kids better than that and, most especially, refuse to keep their dirty little secrets.
Innocence implies the ability to restrain from the initiation of aggression, and to question those who don't.
Sorin Cucerai
Post by: xvipah on December 30, 2005, 09:15:00 PM
I'm not sure I see why that's some sort of controversy?
sunday school: A prison in which children do penance for the evil conscience of their parents.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 30, 2005, 10:24:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-30 18:15:00, xvipah wrote:
"I would call LIFE a drug rehab. Honestly, like any "psychoanalytic" program/therapy, they tried to analyze what was underneath the "bad" actions.
I'm not sure I see why that's some sort of controversy?
The only "controversy" is brought on by ex-staff who want to call it anything but a "Drug Rehab". I actually have an email from an former staffer that downplays "drug rehab" and claims it espoused "Self esteem (an audience for private body functions helps this alot), decision making (taught by having to ask to pick up a utensil to eat?) and communication (because flapping your arms like a spastic parrot comes in handy in real life, doesn't it?)"
XV, You tell it like it is. You don't resort to personal attacks or sugarcoating the facts. You're a breath of fresh air around here.
God is inconceivable, immortality is unbelievable, but duty is peremptory and absolute.
--George Eliot, author
Post by: xvipah on December 30, 2005, 11:51:00 PM
If I'm understanding correctly, some say it was a drug rehab, and others say it wasn't because it was more about self esteem than "drugs".
I would say that both camps are correct. Like I said in the last post, just about any place you go to get help for an addiction(whether that be drugs, sex, gambling, alcohol, or whatever), it eventually comes down to the things underneath it all. Self-esteem, feelings, all of that play in to troubled kids(and adults)..
I think LIFE was advertised as a drug rehab, whether the things they taught and such could help even teens without drug/alcohol problems or not. Sure, self esteem and such are important for anyone, drug addict or not, but a place like LIFE was there for people like me, who had real problems with substance abuse. Honestly that's the only sort of kids who ever should have been there.
Regardless of the things they taught or did "therapy" on, the core teachings were about abuse.
India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman
Post by: Antigen on December 31, 2005, 12:11:00 AM
Quote
...because flapping your arms like a spastic parrot comes in handy in real life, doesn't it?"--Helena Handbasket
Screening pre-school kids for anti-social behavior is about as useful as screening the Christian Coalition for sanctimonious behavior.
Sanho Tree
Post by: xvipah on December 31, 2005, 12:17:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-30 21:11:00, Antigen wrote:Quote...because flapping your arms like a spastic parrot comes in handy in real life, doesn't it?"--Helena Handbasket
Wait......
You guys don't use that at work? Dammit, I was wondering why my boss kept lookin at me weird!
My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author
Post by: Antigen on December 31, 2005, 01:17:00 AM
I laughed hard when, many years later, I read that cognitive dissonance is not a healthy sign of positive change, but just the feeling you get when things just don't add up.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use
--Galileo Galilei
Post by: Nihilanthic on December 31, 2005, 07:23:00 AM
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
--Edward Everett
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 31, 2005, 10:16:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-30 21:17:00, xvipah wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-30 21:11:00, Antigen wrote:Quote...because flapping your arms like a spastic parrot comes in handy in real life, doesn't it?"--Helena Handbasket
Wait......
You guys don't use that at work? Dammit, I was wondering why my boss kept lookin at me weird!
Nah, I do get weird looks when I look around and say "So, who's got a song". No?
So I zip-a-dee-doo-da all by myself :grin:
No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
P. J. O'Rourke
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-30 20:51:00, xvipah wrote:
"Ah I see now, I got a little confused :smile:
If I'm understanding correctly, some say it was a drug rehab, and others say it wasn't because it was more about self esteem than "drugs".
I would say that both camps are correct. Like I said in the last post, just about any place you go to get help for an addiction(whether that be drugs, sex, gambling, alcohol, or whatever), it eventually comes down to the things underneath it all. Self-esteem, feelings, all of that play in to troubled kids(and adults)..
I think LIFE was advertised as a drug rehab, whether the things they taught and such could help even teens without drug/alcohol problems or not. Sure, self esteem and such are important for anyone, drug addict or not, but a place like LIFE was there for people like me, who had real problems with substance abuse. Honestly that's the only sort of kids who ever should have been there.
Regardless of the things they taught or did "therapy" on, the core teachings were about abuse.India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?"
-- Sherman
Yes, I was also in LIFE and agree with this post. LIFE was called a Drug Rehab, but when it came down to it, they dealt with symptoms that led to drug use and abuse.
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2005, 11:41:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-30 19:24:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-30 18:15:00, xvipah wrote:
"I would call LIFE a drug rehab. Honestly, like any "psychoanalytic" program/therapy, they tried to analyze what was underneath the "bad" actions.
I'm not sure I see why that's some sort of controversy?
The only "controversy" is brought on by ex-staff who want to call it anything but a "Drug Rehab". I actually have an email from an former staffer that downplays "drug rehab" and claims it espoused "Self esteem (an audience for private body functions helps this alot), decision making (taught by having to ask to pick up a utensil to eat?) and communication (because flapping your arms like a spastic parrot comes in handy in real life, doesn't it?)"
XV, You tell it like it is. You don't resort to personal attacks or sugarcoating the facts. You're a breath of fresh air around here.God is inconceivable, immortality is unbelievable, but duty is peremptory and absolute."
--George Eliot, author
You emailed with a former staff person? What's up with that?
Post by: Helena Handbasket on December 31, 2005, 11:58:00 AM
Quote
You emailed with a former staff person? What's up with that?"
The staffer emailed me. I was kind enough to respond with my thoughts, and got the answers I stated earlier.
I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
--Thomas Carlyle
Post by: xvipah on December 31, 2005, 12:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-31 07:16:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
Nah, I do get weird looks when I look around and say "So, who's got a song". No?
So I zip-a-dee-doo-da all by myself :grin:No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
P. J. O'Rourke
Yea, that zip-a-dee-doo-da will get you everytime..
I tried It's a Small World Once, but they didn't appreciate that either.
If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine- but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good- and CARES about any of it- to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.
--Frank Zappa, American musician
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2005, 03:11:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-31 08:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
You emailed with a former staff person? What's up with that?"
I don't understand the question. Is there something wrong with that?
Post by: xvipah on December 31, 2005, 07:23:00 PM
Hell, I talk to Cristin through email fairly regularly.
Everybody's lost just waiting to be found. Everyone's a thought just waiting to fade.
-- Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2005, 07:58:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-31 16:23:00, xvipah wrote:
"I don't think there is.
Hell, I talk to Cristin through email fairly regularly
I meant for informational purposes. There's a lot I'd like to know about what really went on in staff meetings while they were hijacking our future. Other than that I really have no use for them at all. I definitely wouldn't want to have a continuing dialog with any of them.
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2006, 12:24:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-31 16:23:00, xvipah wrote:
"I don't think there is.
Hell, I talk to Cristin through email fairly regularly.Everybody's lost just waiting to be found. Everyone's a thought just waiting to fade."
-- Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins
Cristin was a staff member? I remember her as very quiet and shy.
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2006, 03:12:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-31 16:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-31 16:23:00, xvipah wrote:
"I don't think there is.
Hell, I talk to Cristin through email fairly regularly
I meant for informational purposes. There's a lot I'd like to know about what really went on in staff meetings while they were hijacking our future. Other than that I really have no use for them at all. I definitely wouldn't want to have a continuing dialog with any of them. "
Why not?
They're just people like we are. So they happened to buy in to the program further than some others and went on to staff to try to help other kids as best they could, that doesn't make them some sort of enemy, or less human.
Post by: xvipah on January 01, 2006, 03:13:00 AM
The Church says that the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church.
--Ferdinand Magellan, Portuguese and Spanish explorer
Post by: TimeBomb on January 02, 2006, 01:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 18:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"Ya' know, we really could use some solid figures in this discussion. Anybody inclined to get the tax returns from IRS? If LIFE was non-profit, they're public info."
Good idea. There's a lot of speculation and philosophical discussion going on, but very little evidence. Too bad most of the documentation probably wound up in the shredder... or in Ross's fireplace.
In additon to whatever public records could possibly be dug up, I'm sure there are some people who still have a few things. I'll bet Ginger would be happy to post papers that people might send her.
Or, you could even email or smailmail them to me, and I'll do it.
[ This Message was edited by: TimeBomb on 2006-01-02 10:43 ]
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 06:42:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-01 00:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Why not?
They're just people like we are. So they happened to buy in to the program further than some others and went on to staff to try to help other kids as best they could, that doesn't make them some sort of enemy, or less human."
Why not? Because I have this strange aversion to having a continuing relationship with people that abused the shit out of me.
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 07:32:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-02 15:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-01-01 00:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Why not?
They're just people like we are. So they happened to buy in to the program further than some others and went on to staff to try to help other kids as best they could, that doesn't make them some sort of enemy, or less human."
Why not? Because I have this strange aversion to having a continuing relationship with people that abused the shit out of me. "
Oh you poor defenseless thing. You couldn't get your way while there, so you cry A B U S E. What a pussy.
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 07:51:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 19:50:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-26 18:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"Ya' know, we really could use some solid figures in this discussion. Anybody inclined to get the tax returns from IRS? If LIFE was non-profit, they're public info.
Oh you mean actual facts? :grin: Shouldn't be difficult.Faith means not wanting to know what is true."
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
Found one. For 9 months on staff. Earnings were $8,141.00 for approximatley 40 weeks, comes to right around $5 an hour (IF I was 40 hours a week, which I can't remember). (1980's)
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 08:11:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-02 16:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
Oh you poor defenseless thing. You couldn't get your way while there, so you cry A B U S E. What a pussy."
Why on earth would you assume that?
Post by: xvipah on January 02, 2006, 08:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-02 15:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-01-01 00:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Why not?
They're just people like we are. So they happened to buy in to the program further than some others and went on to staff to try to help other kids as best they could, that doesn't make them some sort of enemy, or less human."
Why not? Because I have this strange aversion to having a continuing relationship with people that abused the shit out of me. "
Ah, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that that every single staff member ever at LIFE abused you.
The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 08:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-02 17:19:00, xvipah wrote:
Ah, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that that every single staff member ever at LIFE abused you.
Did I say that? However, I do think you gotta be some kinda crazy to even consider the notion of going on staff. Whether or not they were physically abusive is irrelevant. The emotional, mental and verbal abuses heaped upon the kids in there is enough for me to steer clear of anyone that voluntarily did that. Not to say that I wouldn't speak with them. I have done that. I didn't scream and yell, I just talked and listened. Lo and behold the ones I have spoken with who didn't see a problem with the place before had second, third and fourth thoughts about it after we spoke. Amazing. A lot of times it just takes someone pointing pulling one little card out and the whole house comes tumbling down.
Post by: xvipah on January 02, 2006, 08:58:00 PM
I can understand you having little desire to correspond with someone who directly berated/belittled/humilated you, but every staff member is not one of those people.
Most people think the programs were brainwashing, so if it worked on someone to the point they went on staff I don't think that's some sort of reason to treat them as a pariah. If someone wrote you who happened to be a guy/girl who punched you in the face while you were there, then I could understand the aversion.
The disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for laws and the system in general... On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background.
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 09:02:00 PM
Post by: xvipah on January 02, 2006, 09:05:00 PM
The will to learn is an intrinsic motive...The will to learn becomes a 'problem' only under specialized circumstances like those of a school where the curriculum is set, students confined, and a path fixed.
--Jerome S. Bruner, Harvard.
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 09:07:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 09:12:00 PM
Post by: xvipah on January 02, 2006, 09:12:00 PM
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-- Emo Phillips
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2006, 09:18:00 PM
Post by: kamikaze on January 03, 2006, 01:25:00 AM
i've had the opportunity to spend time with some staff, from that 89 - 91 era, and i think they're some good people in there. they were just scared kids like us all. i've heard a couple say that they just wanted to get to junior or senior staff because they knew then, that they would not get started-over from that point.
the craziest thing, is that some of those kids went on to have much worse drug problems then the regular kids on thier phases, that i knew.
but yeah i would say that many of them became real pricks when given a little power, it's okay though. i can finally look back and laugh, even though you guys called my days in for abt 3 months while i was on 6th phase (lol).
i do hope that you kids that i talk abt (on staff and in group) did not damage anyone beyond repair.
take care all,
kami
Post by: Helena Handbasket on January 03, 2006, 01:26:00 AM
Quote
Why not? Because I have this strange aversion to having a continuing relationship with people that abused the shit out of me. "
Why not ask why? I really hope you're not one of the many bagheads who accuse others of lacking a set of cojones. :grin:[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2006-01-02 22:45 ]
Post by: TimeBomb on January 03, 2006, 12:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-26 18:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"Ya' know, we really could use some solid figures in this discussion. Anybody inclined to get the tax returns from IRS? If LIFE was non-profit, they're public info."
Done. I'll put them online when I get them.
Post by: Heidi on February 01, 2006, 07:13:00 PM
Post by: Heidi on February 01, 2006, 07:44:00 PM
Lastly what does not kill you, will make you stronger, and hey it did! I have survived an abusive husband, his new wife killing my son,who was not even 2 yet (happened 10 years ago so I can talk about it now)and have gone on to meet and marry a good man, and still manage to keep going. Some of what I learned at life helped me get through that.
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2006, 07:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-01 16:13:00, Heidi wrote:
"I agree. I am a lifer from '83/'84 and would love to hook up with other lifers from then. I actually went all the way through, to include the 6 month follow up. Perhaps some of the negative folks did not, dunno, don't really care. It did alot of good for me. Yes I did do drugs again and yes, I did worse than before I went in. But I woke the hell up about a year or so after and grew up. I still had fun but with respect for myself and responisibility. I drank occassinally in moderation. I have had a very happy and successful life thus far. I speak up for myself now, (oviously), and I don't give a rats behind what others think of me. I live well, sleep well, and love what I see in the mirror. If anyone else form life and from those years especially is interested I am contemplating starting a yahoo group for former lifers that, hang on, is positive! I will be moderating it, so spam and doomers, don't bother your crap won't be posted."
Hi Heidi, I was also in Life in the 80's. Do you have an email address where I can email you?
P.S. Definately let us know if you start that yahoo site. I also view my experience there as a postive one.
Post by: Heidi on February 01, 2006, 09:43:00 PM
yes I used to own a corvette, I did say I had done well, but grew up and traded it in on a Jeep. What can I say, grew up not poor, but not quite middle class either. So I am materalistic, at least I'm honest.
Post by: Heidi on February 02, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
Post by: Helena Handbasket on February 02, 2006, 03:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-01 16:13:00, Heidi wrote:
"I agree. I am a lifer from '83/'84 and would love to hook up with other lifers from then. I actually went all the way through, to include the 6 month follow up. Perhaps some of the negative folks did not, dunno, don't really care.
Funny... somehow I, an infidel got the invitation for the 2004 reunion that you were supposed to get? Sorry... I didn't know who to pass it along to.
Quote
It did alot of good for me. Yes I did do drugs again and yes, I did worse than before I went in. But I woke the hell up about a year or so after and grew up. I still had fun but with respect for myself and responisibility. I drank occassinally in moderation.
Yeah? So? You drank in the same manner as millions do every day... uh... responsibly??????
Quote
I have had a very happy and successful life thus far. I speak up for myself now, (oviously),
Funny.... Speaking up for myself is what landed me in LIFE in the first place, because speaking up for oneself was just not allowed in our dictatorship. It wasn't exactly allowed in LIFE either. Tell me - how exactly did "not talking out in group" afford you the ability to speak up for yourself now?
Quote
... and I don't give a rats behind what others think of me. I live well, sleep well, and love what I see in the mirror.Wow, we actually do have something common.
Yes, really, it's true. Although Helen told you all that time that not completing the program would result in complete personal ruination, there were a few phoenix types that flew above the ashes, even at the contempt of the beehived wonder.
Quote
If anyone else form life and from those years especially is interested I am contemplating starting a yahoo group for former lifers that, hang on, is positive! I will be moderating it, so spam and doomers, don't bother your crap won't be posted."
Well, I'm not a spammer, and I'm 180 degrees away from doomsayers... do I still qualify if I think your admiration of a bunch of egotistal sychophants - your peers who still revere Helen Petermann - moronic??
Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,
Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2006, 04:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-02 12:48:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-01 16:13:00, Heidi wrote:
"I agree. I am a lifer from '83/'84 and would love to hook up with other lifers from then. I actually went all the way through, to include the 6 month follow up. Perhaps some of the negative folks did not, dunno, don't really care.
Funny... somehow I, an infidel got the invitation for the 2004 reunion that you were supposed to get? Sorry... I didn't know who to pass it along to.QuoteIt did alot of good for me. Yes I did do drugs again and yes, I did worse than before I went in. But I woke the hell up about a year or so after and grew up. I still had fun but with respect for myself and responisibility. I drank occassinally in moderation.
Yeah? So? You drank in the same manner as millions do every day... uh... responsibly??????Quote
I have had a very happy and successful life thus far. I speak up for myself now, (oviously),
Funny.... Speaking up for myself is what landed me in LIFE in the first place, because speaking up for oneself was just not allowed in our dictatorship. It wasn't exactly allowed in LIFE either. Tell me - how exactly did "not talking out in group" afford you the ability to speak up for yourself now?Quote... and I don't give a rats behind what others think of me. I live well, sleep well, and love what I see in the mirror.
Wow, we actually do have something common.
Yes, really, it's true. Although Helen told you all that time that not completing the program would result in complete personal ruination, there were a few phoenix types that flew above the ashes, even at the contempt of the beehived wonder.QuoteIf anyone else form life and from those years especially is interested I am contemplating starting a yahoo group for former lifers that, hang on, is positive! I will be moderating it, so spam and doomers, don't bother your crap won't be posted."
Well, I'm not a spammer, and I'm 180 degrees away from doomsayers... do I still qualify if I think your admiration of a bunch of egotistal sychophants - your peers who still revere Helen Petermann - moronic??Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,"
Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)
There goes HELENA, on the ATTACK again. Love how she picks apart these posts, and vomits her opinions throughout. ::crybaby::
Post by: TimeBomb on February 02, 2006, 04:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-01 16:13:00, Heidi wrote:
"I am contemplating starting a yahoo group for former lifers that, hang on, is positive! I will be moderating it, so spam and doomers, don't bother your crap won't be posted."
:lol:
Love, love, love...
That's what it's all about
Post by: Helena Handbasket on February 02, 2006, 06:07:00 PM
Quote
There goes HELENA, on the ATTACK again. Love how she picks apart these posts, and vomits her opinions throughout. ::crybaby:: "
You see an attack in that? You might want to try remedial reading then.
I don't think that a drug that creates euphoria in patients with terminal diseases is having an adverse effect.
--San Francisco oncologist & AIDS doctor, Donald Abrams, M.D.
Post by: Heidi on February 02, 2006, 08:35:00 PM
I also do not revere Ms. Pete. I feel shes just as human as the rest of, puts her pants on one leg at a time like we do too. Did you know she smoked cigarettes? Yup hell of an example there. But I do think she meant well. My grandfather died while I was in the program. I did mention they raised me right? By the time they finally let me go to the hospital to see him, it was too late, he did not know me, so even doing it "their way" making amends was impossible. Funny thing was I did and do regrett the way I treated him when I partied. I will never forget that, but I have moved on, can talk about the good times as well as bad, and would like to hook up with some of the other lifers.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2006, 07:29:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there. A few of the other 5% post on this site. Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.
I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.
One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers. That was a HOOT. We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter. The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab". One family called the NEWS to come film us. Loved it.
Merry Christmas all."
That depends on WHEN you were there.
In the Grand Opening days,or the last Close-Out Sale days.
I was there from DAY ONE and it was physically and mentally abusive.20 year old oldcommers beating up 14 and 15 year old children.UNSUPERVISED "group sessions" where your "peers" could do anything to you that they wanted.
Today I have a Hitler like response to ANYONE who does not stick to thier word,and I learned that in the cL.I.F.E. Program,EVEN THOUGH I never made it off of 1st Phase.I was kicked out of the program,but thier doctrine still sunk in to my brain and has remained there until this day.I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.
Count me in your 5%.
Post by: Helena Handbasket on February 13, 2006, 08:56:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-01 18:43:00, Heidi wrote:
"let me give you my hotmail email. ninetysix_vette@hotmail.com
yes I used to own a corvette, I did say I had done well, but grew up and traded it in on a Jeep. What can I say, grew up not poor, but not quite middle class either. So I am materalistic, at least I'm honest. "
Curious, Heidi... your '96 Vette makes me wonder if you're someone I know. Do you live in the Clearwater/Tarpon Springs area? Have a teenage daughter who was about 13 in 2002? I can't remember your husband's name, but he was in the medical supply business?
The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.
Post by: Anonymous on February 14, 2006, 09:50:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-13 04:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there. A few of the other 5% post on this site. Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.
I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.
One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers. That was a HOOT. We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter. The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab". One family called the NEWS to come film us. Loved it.
Merry Christmas all."
That depends on WHEN you were there.
In the Grand Opening days,or the last Close-Out Sale days.
I was there from DAY ONE and it was physically and mentally abusive.20 year old oldcommers beating up 14 and 15 year old children.UNSUPERVISED "group sessions" where your "peers" could do anything to you that they wanted.
Today I have a Hitler like response to ANYONE who does not stick to thier word,and I learned that in the cL.I.F.E. Program,EVEN THOUGH I never made it off of 1st Phase.I was kicked out of the program,but thier doctrine still sunk in to my brain and has remained there until this day.I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.
Count me in your 5%."
You honestly believe that you can't hold a job and you don't respect authority because you had to sit on a bench and listen to kids cry about doing drugs? Give me a fucking break. I would bet that you like that excuse to be a fuck up. Blame it on the program from two decades ago. What about personal responsibility? You aren't a child. You can make your own decisions. Why would you allow yourself to be a victim of the program? That is a load of bullshit. It was a bad place but damn, just damn, it is time to move on. I hated the months that I was there but it is pretty much a non issue in my life now.
Post by: Anonymous on February 14, 2006, 10:12:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-13 04:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.
LIFE was abusive, no doubt about that but DAMN! Get a grip. Most people had it the same as you, some had it worse. It's not an excuse to treat other people like shit and be a bum for the rest of your life. Not to say that we all don't have lingering problems from that place, that pretty much goes without saying. By treating everyone around you the same way as you were treated then makes you virtually no different because now you KNOW better. You KNOW how that can effect people.
Post by: Anonymous on February 14, 2006, 11:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-14 06:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-13 04:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there. A few of the other 5% post on this site. Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.
I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.
One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers. That was a HOOT. We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter. The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab". One family called the NEWS to come film us. Loved it.
Merry Christmas all."
That depends on WHEN you were there.
In the Grand Opening days,or the last Close-Out Sale days.
I was there from DAY ONE and it was physically and mentally abusive.20 year old oldcommers beating up 14 and 15 year old children.UNSUPERVISED "group sessions" where your "peers" could do anything to you that they wanted.
Today I have a Hitler like response to ANYONE who does not stick to thier word,and I learned that in the cL.I.F.E. Program,EVEN THOUGH I never made it off of 1st Phase.I was kicked out of the program,but thier doctrine still sunk in to my brain and has remained there until this day.I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.
Count me in your 5%."
You honestly believe that you can't hold a job and you don't respect authority because you had to sit on a bench and listen to kids cry about doing drugs? Give me a fucking break. I would bet that you like that excuse to be a fuck up. Blame it on the program from two decades ago. What about personal responsibility? You aren't a child. You can make your own decisions. Why would you allow yourself to be a victim of the program? That is a load of bullshit. It was a bad place but damn, just damn, it is time to move on. I hated the months that I was there but it is pretty much a non issue in my life now. "
No.I did not say all of that.
But it is true that some of the program language and criteria,and method of arguing that I was learned in the program is in my head today.If I need to argue with family members or authoriety today,I use the Hitler like method I learned in group sessions.
The word "should" was not allowed in group,for instance.
The meaning and definations of certain words were changed in my head in the program.
If I hold you against your will,beat you while repeating "I love you,I love you...",eventually the phrase "I love you" will have a different meaning in your head.Its called "brainwashing".
You replace the meaning of certain words,one word at a time.
SUSQUEHANNA HAT COMPANY!!!!(from an old Abbot and Costello movie.Costello asked a random man on the street "Do you know where the Susquhanna Hat Company is?",and the guy beat the shit out of him.
I live in China now and I hear this kind of shit every day,like "...and the nation of Togo "adheres" to the one China policy",or,"This reflects the will of "all" the Chinese people",etc.etc.
Im living in China on my $385USD monthly SSI check,so I dont need a job right now.My rent is about $30usd a month,with a monthly electric bill of about $4 per month.I dont speak Chinese,so I usually dont run in to conflict with people that much,plus most of them love me and shower me with free food and cigarettes.
Post by: Anonymous on February 15, 2006, 08:15:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 16, 2006, 04:36:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-15 05:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And again I question your lack of desire to change. If you were one of the first people that were in the LIFE program, well, you have had damn near 30 years to change your life around instead of holding onto anger and saying that you were brainwashed. By saying that the words that were used against you 25 years ago still affect you today means that you allow yourself to be victimized over and over. Why? I don't believe for a second that your shitty life is because of the LIFE program back in the early 80s. Alot of people went through it and found a way to pull themselves together and move the fuck on. But it does make for a nice excuse, doesn't it? No matter how bad I hated the program. I would never let it be the only thing that defined my life. That is just sad. "
"Excuse" is not right.
Everything I have experienced in my life is what I am today.
I have "changed quite a bit since those days,but my experience in L.I.F.E. is part of what I am now."Brainwashing" does not go away.Its kind of like having a song go through your head even when you never liked the song.
Reading the stuff on this website awakened me that there ARE many other people who have similar thoughts and memories as I do about the sever abuse suffered at L.I.F.E.
I dont go around scrawling this stuff on bathroom walls!This is the apropriate place to share these horrid memories with others about the events I experienced in L.I.F.E. that tore my soul so far apart.
I am doing things SO INTERESTING in my life these days that I never dreamed would be possible.
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2006, 09:54:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2006, 10:05:00 PM
Post by: Helena Handbasket on March 17, 2006, 10:11:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-03-17 19:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
" did the LIFERS all go elsewhere to bitch and whine about how awful they were treated 10, 20 years ago? dead topic."
No, actually, we're aware that LIFE is dead, however several other gulags have spawned. The abuses are alive and well today.
Funny, we still have a "war on drugs", a "war on smoking (tobacco"), and a War on Terrorism - but no one has declared a war on brainwashing and child abuse.
Not exactly a dead issue.
Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
_________________
Where are we going, and what are we doing in this handbasket??
------
[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2006-03-17 19:12 ]
Post by: HelenPetermann on March 29, 2006, 05:23:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-03-17 19:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
" did the LIFERS all go elsewhere to bitch and whine about how awful they were treated 10, 20 years ago? dead topic."
No,they are ALL in my house having a sex orgy!
Post by: Helena Handbasket on March 29, 2006, 09:46:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-03-29 02:23:00, HelenPetermann wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-03-17 19:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
" did the LIFERS all go elsewhere to bitch and whine about how awful they were treated 10, 20 years ago? dead topic."
No,they are ALL in my house having a sex orgy!"
Jeeez, old bat - ya still hate me? I was never invited! I'm truly sorry I never did find you and Wendy attractive, but I still like to get boppy with the boys... not the girls.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
--Frank Zappa
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2006, 11:43:40 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
On 2006-02-15 05:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And again I question your lack of desire to change. If you were one of the first people that were in the LIFE program, well, you have had damn near 30 years to change your life around instead of holding onto anger and saying that you were brainwashed. By saying that the words that were used against you 25 years ago still affect you today means that you allow yourself to be victimized over and over. Why? I don't believe for a second that your shitty life is because of the LIFE program back in the early 80s. Alot of people went through it and found a way to pull themselves together and move the fuck on. But it does make for a nice excuse, doesn't it? No matter how bad I hated the program. I would never let it be the only thing that defined my life. That is just sad. "
"Excuse" is not right.
Everything I have experienced in my life is what I am today.
I have "changed quite a bit since those days,but my experience in L.I.F.E. is part of what I am now."Brainwashing" does not go away.Its kind of like having a song go through your head even when you never liked the song.
Reading the stuff on this website awakened me that there ARE many other people who have similar thoughts and memories as I do about the sever abuse suffered at L.I.F.E.
I dont go around scrawling this stuff on bathroom walls!This is the apropriate place to share these horrid memories with others about the events I experienced in L.I.F.E. that tore my soul so far apart.
I am doing things SO INTERESTING in my life these days that I never dreamed would be possible.
I like this one better.