Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: kk on December 05, 2005, 02:17:00 PM
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Hi, My son is currently at Aspen Ranch. Ask me whatever you want. Ijust was there. I think the Therapists are great and the Teachers are great too.
Yes, it is corporate run and the bottom line is money and I don't like that aspect of it, but the people there do care. The things I don't like is that the babysitters, that's what I call them, mean well, but they are just not smart enough to understand the rules and make decsions that affect are children and these are the people who are deciding what level and what punishments should be handed out. Thank goodness most of our kids are very smart and most of the parents are very concerned and at any given time there is a parent on the property. I also don't like the fact that for all the money that we are paying the place is pretty broken done. there great selling point the ropes course has been inoperable for 7 months. The selling point that the kids can excellorate their schooling is void because they do not have access to computers or the library on the weekend.
I personally spoke to Matt Alexander about this situation and he pormised me this would change. I also feel that they slap every kid with the lable of ODD. My kid I feel did not have ODD and after I insisted on further testing which of course I had to pay 1300 extra for they now say that he may have an Autistic spectrum disorder and they may not be able to help him, only after 5 months of him being there. All these things are aggravating but I do believe that the people there are trying to help. The food is pretty crappy too, but I guess if you are selling drugs and go to jail it would be worse. By the way my son was never doing drugs or in any trouble with the law he was very depressed and his grades took a nose dive and we thought he was suicidal. He is doing better and he actually wants to remain in a boarding school just in one that is not as strict with levels. After reading all of this I'm not comfportable with any boarding school and am hoping to convince him to come home, or just finish his Junior year at the Ranch and as soon as he is done we will pull him. any questions? Feel free!
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So I have a question. WHat the hell is wrong with you? It's nice to know you love your kid so much that you send him away to a fucked up place instead of helping him. I would wish for boarding school too.
Parents who farm out their parenting responsibilities so they don't have to deal with it are weak and pathetic.
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KK--are you out of your frigging mind?
Your kid has been misdiagnosed. You don't trust the people who are in charge of "babysitting" your child because they don't understand the rules or the "punishment" to hand out. Did you send your kid there to be PUNISHED? You say the equipment is broken down. You complain about the education and no access to learning tools, and about the "crappy food." NOW, you say you hope you can "convince your son to come home?" Are you NOT the parent? You need to wake up, and take control of this situation. Your son needs therapy (perhaps, perhaps not)...and he needs to be in a REAL SCHOOL for his education, and he certainly does not need some incompetent people dishing out punishment to him. Why don't you enroll YOURSELF there awhile?
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My son tore up my pictures in my house becuse I took his T.v. out of his room, becuse he stopped doing his homework. He also took one of my paintings and urinated on it. He also broke my thumb fighting with me when I tried to keep him from desroying more of my pictures because I asked him to please get out of my room because he was watching T.V. in my room and I wanted to go to sleep. Also, his I.Q. is Off the charts in some areas so he is very smart and manipulitive, and when his genuis 41 year uncle commited suicide I was afraid for his life. He told me he was going to come in my room and slit me or his dads throat. He did willingly go to the Ranch. We drove him there, we did not have him kidnapped. We stayed there with him. And have been visiting him ever since. He doesn't hate us for sending him there. He likes his teachers and his therapist it's just the levels and the food and the babysitters that he doesn't like. no one has hurt him, and he is to smart to let them mentally abuse him. He never has been in R and R. He doesn't want to come home just wants to switch boarding schools. I'm afraid of putting from the frying pan into the fire. Believe me I love my son more then anything and I spend more time e mailing him writing to him and researching things everyday that he is in there trying to figure out how to help him so he doesn't end up dead. Don't judge me if I knew it would cure my son I would sign up for any wilderness camp. I would give my life for his health, but that's not going to happen.
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On 2005-12-05 11:17:00, kk wrote:
"Hi, My son is currently at Aspen Ranch. Ask me whatever you want. Ijust was there. I think the Therapists are great and the Teachers are great too.
Yes, it is corporate run and the bottom line is money and I don't like that aspect of it, but the people there do care. The things I don't like is that the babysitters, that's what I call them, mean well, but they are just not smart enough to understand the rules and make decsions that affect are children and these are the people who are deciding what level and what punishments should be handed out. Thank goodness most of our kids are very smart and most of the parents are very concerned and at any given time there is a parent on the property. I also don't like the fact that for all the money that we are paying the place is pretty broken done. there great selling point the ropes course has been inoperable for 7 months. The selling point that the kids can excellorate their schooling is void because they do not have access to computers or the library on the weekend.
I personally spoke to Matt Alexander about this situation and he pormised me this would change. I also feel that they slap every kid with the lable of ODD. My kid I feel did not have ODD and after I insisted on further testing which of course I had to pay 1300 extra for they now say that he may have an Autistic spectrum disorder and they may not be able to help him, only after 5 months of him being there. All these things are aggravating but I do believe that the people there are trying to help. The food is pretty crappy too, but I guess if you are selling drugs and go to jail it would be worse. By the way my son was never doing drugs or in any trouble with the law he was very depressed and his grades took a nose dive and we thought he was suicidal. He is doing better and he actually wants to remain in a boarding school just in one that is not as strict with levels. After reading all of this I'm not comfportable with any boarding school and am hoping to convince him to come home, or just finish his Junior year at the Ranch and as soon as he is done we will pull him. any questions? Feel free!"
Wow. I read this, and by the end I was thinking "There must be some mistake. The story didn't end with 'and because of all of the red flags of abuse/neglect/fraud I listed before, I've taken my son home and am suing Aspen for fraud and breech of contract.'" Are you nuts or what?
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I am taking him home. I just waiting to find a better place for him first. He does notwant to come live here. I even told him he could stay with his grandparents whomm he loves or his granma who he adores and he said no he wants to go to a boarding school one with small classes a therapist for intense therapy just one that will give him freedom.
So that is what I'm looking for. I even thought about a regular boarding school with very small classes and then getting him a car so he can take himself for private therapy. He will be out of there in the next few weeks.
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You are some weird person! You are leaving this boy there "a few weeks?" And you think you can depend on this child to get himself to and fro to "intense personal therapy" just because you will buy him a car? You have this CHILD in an abusive place that is dishing out punishment, and he is being denied a proper education, and has been misdiagnosed. Yet, you are sitting back and letting him call the shots about where he wants to live? You need to go and pick this boy up today, and try being a REAL PARENT!
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Just curious...and I'm not saying this parent is right (I do think it's weird that someone would think deplorable conditions and "babysitters" are a good thing to pay for)...but what about the fact that this kid was clearly being destructive? URINATING on property? HELLO???? Threatening to kill his parents....HELLO???? Tell me, o masters of the forum, how does a REAL parent handle that? Let me guess, grounding? Talking? Do you really think that works when a kid is that out of control?
And before you blast me thinking that I'm advocating sending a child somewhere they will be abused, I'm not. So while everyone is busy saying that doesn't work, all of us parents who are dealing with out of control kids would like to know WHAT DOES?? I've been asking this question and have gotten some really thoughtful answers from some clearly great people. But as of yet, not a single one from people who like to just bash parents for mucking the whole thing up.
Part of growing up is learning to take responsibility for your actions. Some of these kids just out and out refuse. You could say something Rockwellish like, "now son...surely you didn't mean to disrespect my property like that. Would you kindly replace it?". I have a good feeling I know what the response of a kid would be who has chosen to show his displeasure by breaking his mother's thumb.
Let's get down to brass tacks folks. Dish it out, because believe me, I've already heard the worst on this forum.
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Son stopped doing homework
Your Reaction: Took his TV out of his room. (What?s the TV got to do with his lack of motivation to do homework? Did the unrelated punishment work?. Did it motivate him? Obviously not. Did you honestly think it was a solution for his lack of motivation? Or just a knee jerk reaction?)
His Reaction to Your reaction: Destroy pictures and urinate on a painting. Watch TV in YOUR room. (What was the point of taking his TV if you were going to let him watch in your room?)
Your reaction, to his reaction, to your reaction: Physically fight with him. (Huh? You really physically fought with him?)
Sounds like two distressed teenagers in a battle of wills.
Option: Let him fail. There is absolutely NO reason to put SO much emphasis on homework and grades. He could still attend college even if he flunks out of high school. Have you read the stats on people with high IQs? They frequently don?t do well in school, they?re bored out of their mind.
Why are you scared to let him make his own choices and learn from them?
So, he flunks out of school or gets expelled. Then he can assume an adult role, as a housemate rather than dependent. In other words, he pays you reasonable rent, buys his own groceries, buys a car/insurance or pays you to provide transportation or uses public transport. When he?s had a taste of adulthood he may or may not come around to what YOU want for him. It is his life.
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How would you advise this parent, fam?
Do you think this kid is going to feel better about himself and heal all his emotional wounds by living in an environment where he is fed shitty food and hanging out with babysitters who don't know how to dole out punishments and god knows what else?
And this coming from a mother who physically fights with her son. And thinks taking his TV away will motivate/inspire him to do something she wants him to do.
"I want you to learn geometry."
"Fuck you."
"Okay, I'm taking your TV."
"Fine, I'll tear up your pictures and piss on your painting."
"Now I'm really pissed. Get out of my room. I want to go to sleep."
"Fuck you."
"Take that."
"Take that."
"You broke my finger, you're out of control. I'm going to pay to have you incarcerated and punished."
Are you under some misperception that these yahoos know more than you and have an equal vested interest in your kid?
Both of you could do exactly what a program does. If you genuninely believe the methods and techniques used (if you even know what they are) by a program are what's going to heal your kid's wounds and bring him peace, then WHY DON'T YOU DO IT at home?
You'd give your life. Hardly.
How about giving some time to learning a different way to be with young people. Time to cram, you're in crisis.
Google
alternatives to punishment
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=al ... punishment (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=alternatives+to+punishment)
democratic parenting
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... +parenting (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=democratic+parenting)
And if you don't do your parenting homework, I'll have to take your TV and other worldy distractions.
And read up on autism. The best book I know on the subject is Son Rise by Barry Kaufman. By bringing his son out, he discovered that kids with autism are afraid and they have to be shown consistently that the world is safe. And don't underestimate the behaviors that can manifest when a kid lives silently in fear. Punishment is not the cure.
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First of all, who said I fought with my son? I weigh 90 pounds my son 145 I was trying to perserve my pictures ie; take them from his hands before he flung them to the ground and got more glass everywhere. that is how he broke my thumb him fighting me, not the other way around. Two, he is not being abused at the Ranch, yes it isn't the Ritz, but he isn't being starved, he has shelter, he has protein bars and snacks at his therapist office that I brought him that he tells me he can get anytime he wants. He also has books and CD's there.
He rides horses, loves his teachers. The only thing he doesn't like there and we both agree on this is the level system which is behavior modifcation, which we agreed he didn't have to work on, and the fact that the babysitters were sweet but stupid. The reason I care about his grades is because he cared, he was becoming upset and distressed and wanted to find out what was wrong with him. After his uncle commited suicide and we were afraid that he was going to the same that is when we together went to the Ranch. We all feel that it is not the right program for, but he has learned a lot there. He has learned tolerance and we learned that he has a high I.Q. and he has high Functioning Autism or a type of Aspergers and High Anxiety. Now we will be able to place in a better school. We did not let watch in are room we had a lock on are door but he busted through it. My husband has had 3 back surguries and my son knew that he could take his dad down if he wanted to. He used to say I'm smarte and stronger than you and without respect it's all true. We may have experience on our side but with a 150 verbal I.Q. he could out debate us.
I came home one day and found one of my other son's we have 3 boys and a daughter, locked in the bathroom fearing his life, thinking that this son was going to kill him. I tried everything, before
resorting to sending him away, and it was at his request. So don't judge me or twist my words. My son loves me and we have a great relationship. He doesn't hate me for a minute for sending him. KK
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On 2005-12-06 21:16:00, kk wrote:
"My son...took one of my paintings and urinated on it."
That's fucking awesome. Priceless. God-damn, kid, you are "pissed off" and know how to express it!
Absolutely hilarious anecdote!!!
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Ahhh yes, The Aspen Ranch-Excellent place for the kiddies!! :scared: :scared:
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All I want to know is, does anyone have anything constructive to say on this site? My son, and all of his therapist have told us that because of the other kids and my relationship with my husband the house isn't a great place for him. His grandparents offered and he didn't want it either, he wants to go to a boarding school, so if this is what he wants is there any good ones out there with no behavior modefication where he can just get a good education and get skills to cope with his Aspergers and Anxiety and he can exceed where he is gifted. Come and go as he pleases and everyone can be happy! Is there such a place where there is good therapist and good teachers and good food and well meaning people.
I knpw not everyone or everything is perfect but is there a place that isn't purposefully malicious? That's all I'm asking for a nice decent place where my son might learn to be happy and can go on to college and meet a girl and have a nice life. All these professionals are telling me I can't do it. That my husband and my relationship is to dysfunctional to come together to help our son. My kids are so needy they are getting mad at me for spending so much time trying to research a good school and research aspergers or high functioning autism and my husband is mad too. This is what I deal with too. So do you have any help, not crule sarcasm. KK
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Sounds like a fight to me, kk. but what the hell, all's well in stepville.
Let us know if you find a program that can help your son get to the heart of his hurt and pain that DOESN'T employ BM- which is exactly what YOU did when you took away the TV. Apparently didn't help him figure out what 'was wrong with him'.
I also find it curious that you demanded and paid for a psych evaluation AFTER he was incarcerated. Why not before? If he requested a program, seems he'd be willing to go for evaluation first.
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White Mountain school
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He had an evaluation first, I didn't agree with the evaluation. They said he was a dangerous psycho kid that needed to be put away in a program. They recommended Cross Creek but it seemed to punitive and I was right. The Psychiatrist was the one that told me to take the T.V. away also, I guess I just should stop listening to the people with the MD and listen to myself.
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I knpw not everyone or everything is perfect but is there a place that isn't purposefully malicious?
Not in the "teen help" industry. I second the WMS recommendation. It's a normal boarding school (no "therapeutic" program/BM, etc.) that offers a great outdoors program, including skiing and rafting and so on. I don't know if they'll accept a kid who just got out of a program for "troubled teens", but you can give it a try.
And I'd like to commend you for not sending your son to Cross Creek... if only more parents did the same. You obviously care a great deal about your child. Best of luck.
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Has anyone heard anything about Brehms Prepatory school in IL? It is supposed to be for kids with learning differances. Aspergers, High functioning Autism? KK
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Try The White Mountain School, its SUPERB!Just forget to mention to them that your son was in a "bad boy" school :wink:
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On 2005-12-05 11:17:00, kk wrote:
"Hi, My son is currently at Aspen Ranch. Ask me whatever you want. Ijust was there. I think the Therapists are great and the Teachers are great too.
Yes, it is corporate run and the bottom line is money and I don't like that aspect of it, but the people there do care. The things I don't like is that the babysitters, that's what I call them, mean well, but they are just not smart enough to understand the rules and make decsions that affect are children and these are the people who are deciding what level and what punishments should be handed out. Thank goodness most of our kids are very smart and most of the parents are very concerned and at any given time there is a parent on the property. I also don't like the fact that for all the money that we are paying the place is pretty broken done. there great selling point the ropes course has been inoperable for 7 months. The selling point that the kids can excellorate their schooling is void because they do not have access to computers or the library on the weekend.
I personally spoke to Matt Alexander about this situation and he pormised me this would change. I also feel that they slap every kid with the lable of ODD. My kid I feel did not have ODD and after I insisted on further testing which of course I had to pay 1300 extra for they now say that he may have an Autistic spectrum disorder and they may not be able to help him, only after 5 months of him being there. All these things are aggravating but I do believe that the people there are trying to help. The food is pretty crappy too, but I guess if you are selling drugs and go to jail it would be worse. By the way my son was never doing drugs or in any trouble with the law he was very depressed and his grades took a nose dive and we thought he was suicidal. He is doing better and he actually wants to remain in a boarding school just in one that is not as strict with levels. After reading all of this I'm not comfportable with any boarding school and am hoping to convince him to come home, or just finish his Junior year at the Ranch and as soon as he is done we will pull him. any questions? Feel free!"
OK I visited Aspen Ranch and I could see from talking to the kids, looking at the food and talking to the jerk of a clinical director that this was not a good place for my son. Trust your gut.
You might check out Rancho Valmora in New Mexico -- my son is there and he really likes it.
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On 2005-12-11 10:48:00, kk wrote:
"He had an evaluation first, I didn't agree with the evaluation. They said he was a dangerous psycho kid that needed to be put away in a program. They recommended Cross Creek but it seemed to punitive and I was right. The Psychiatrist was the one that told me to take the T.V. away also, I guess I just should stop listening to the people with the MD and listen to myself. "
Run screaming from any WWASP program!!! By the way who did the evaluation? Someone from Teen Help or some such program?
My thought is that your child should be in patient at a psych hospital so that they can figure out what is going on.
Then find the appropriate program for it. Aspen Ranch does not want to be bothered with kids that have any "real" problems.
They would rather have the ones who really don't need to be there but their parents don't want to parent them...
I met with them and talked to them and once they found out my son had some serious issues -- they were not interested... despite their web sites and literature.....
I see them as a money making machine...
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I had a great time at Aspen Ranch, and so did all my peers, what is this site about may I ask?
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I checked out Whit Mountain and it is too out doorsy for my son. I have narrowed it down to 2 choices, by the way my son is home. The firs choice is Simons Rock it is a College for high school kids, the other is Brandon Hall. Anyone have anything to say about these schools? P.S. My son is glad to be home is doing well, but, does not have any horror stories to tell about Aspen. It is corporate run, and for some kids that may end up in jail it could be a good wake up call. They definetly hold the mighty dollar above all but, they also do try to help the kids.
KK
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I startedm this site because my son was at Aspen Ranch and I felt it was not a good place for him. This is a site for people that know a lot about Theraputic Boarding schools. They are either parents or kids that have gone or sometimes teachers or employees. You have people that are pro but mostly here people are against the schools. I went on because I wanted info about other schools before I switched my son. I did not want to go from the frying pan into the fire. I think what one person said was exactly right. Aspen is just a money making machine. Thank goodness they are not truly brutlizing any of the kids they are just taking kids that parents don't want to deal with, but with kids that need real help like mine that is not just a defient kid it turned out that he has high functioning Autism with Shadowing of Aspergers and High anxitey and Depresion and OCD a place like that can be very bad for him they simple are not equipped to take care of kids with real problems! For the kind of money they charge they should be able to take care of everything! KK
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Isnt that the American way>? Come on, everyoner needs to make money, and Aspen is no different, get over it...Aspen is a great place and I miss it very much so...Michael Simonosky
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On 2005-12-28 12:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Isnt that the American way>? Come on, everyoner needs to make money, and Aspen is no different,
At the expense of kids?? No, that is NOT the American way.....at least it didn't used to be.
get over it...Aspen is a great place and I miss it very much so...Michael Simonosky"
Well, that seems to be a matter of opinion and not everyone shares yours. Get over it.
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Get a fucking life :wave:
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On 2005-12-28 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
Aspen was a good place IN MY OPINION :wave: "
There, fixed that for ya! :wave:
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Aspen might have been a good place for you. I'm not saying that it is a horrible place I'm just saying it is corporate which is not a good thing for the interest of our children. My son was there and I was paying big bucks and he was not seeing a Psychiatrist regularly, he was not seeing a Therapist more then once a week for the 30 minute phone calls and with all the kids coming and going group therapy was useless it's basically hello and good bye. He did not go to drug or 12 step because that was not his problem. After visiting him and seeing that all the money in the world given to the ranch was not going to give him the proper treatment I hired someone outside of the Ranch to give him tests and that is when we found out that he had the Autistic thing going on, so we pulled him out. Now if there are kids there with neurological problems, or have suicidal tendencies or are schizophrenic etc and now they are down to only one Psychiatrist and the kids aren't getting the help they need those kids that are truly sick are really going to get damaged. That is were the shame is if they turned those kids away and only babysat the spoiled brats that would be one thing but they should not take kids with the real problems. I'm glad that they helped you and I know that they have helped some of my son's roomates that were solely there for drug issues.
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KK, I do love aspen ranch, but I see where you are coming from and respect your view...If I were you I would have done the same
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DONT SEND YOUR KID TO MBA!!!!!
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On 2005-12-29 22:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"DONT SEND YOUR KID TO MBA!!!!!"
Oh spare the dramatics baby
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On 2005-12-23 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
You might check out Rancho Valmora in New Mexico -- my son is there and he really likes it.
Same acredidation as WWASP; NATSAP. They'd grant acredication to a school of fish. No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
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On 2006-01-05 21:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-12-23 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
You might check out Rancho Valmora in New Mexico -- my son is there and he really likes it.
Same acredidation as WWASP; NATSAP. They'd grant acredication to a school of fish. No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"
Honestly I didn't even look at that... Anybody can create their own accrediation group -- and just for the record -- the WWASPS are not accrediated by that group.
Maybe you should get your facts before you lump everyone together.
I called the state licensing board, I researched them over the internet (no not their corporate site), checked the local paper archives for news stories and went on a personal visit.
I could not find one scrap of negative information on them and when I visited them I had full access and was allowed to walk the grounds un escorted.
They are a high quality organization and my child is thriving there.
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Awwww, I miss Aspen Ranch and all the friends I made while I was there. Great memories, tough sometimes, but it was worth it!
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On 2006-01-06 17:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-05 21:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-12-23 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
You might check out Rancho Valmora in New Mexico -- my son is there and he really likes it.
Same acredidation as WWASP; NATSAP. They'd grant acredication to a school of fish. No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"
Honestly I didn't even look at that... Anybody can create their own accrediation group -- and just for the record -- the WWASPS are not accrediated by that group.
Maybe you should get your facts before you lump everyone together.
I called the state licensing board, I researched them over the internet (no not their corporate site), checked the local paper archives for news stories and went on a personal visit.
I could not find one scrap of negative information on them and when I visited them I had full access and was allowed to walk the grounds un escorted.
They are a high quality organization and my child is thriving there.
"
I guess that's better than living with a low-quality parent. Like the kind that sends their kid to an "organization" to be raised.
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Amazing how the People who have only negatives to say always hid behind "anonymous".... anything you say is simply not worth listening to? If you really know what your talking about come forward and stand up for your convictions with a real name!
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Amazing how the People who have only POSITIVES to say always hid behind "anonymous".... anything you say is simply not worth listening to? If you really know what your talking about come forward and stand up for your convictions with a real name!
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On 2006-01-07 07:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-06 17:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-05 21:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-12-23 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
You might check out Rancho Valmora in New Mexico -- my son is there and he really likes it.
Same acredidation as WWASP; NATSAP. They'd grant acredication to a school of fish. No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"
Honestly I didn't even look at that... Anybody can create their own accrediation group -- and just for the record -- the WWASPS are not accrediated by that group.
Maybe you should get your facts before you lump everyone together.
I called the state licensing board, I researched them over the internet (no not their corporate site), checked the local paper archives for news stories and went on a personal visit.
I could not find one scrap of negative information on them and when I visited them I had full access and was allowed to walk the grounds un escorted.
They are a high quality organization and my child is thriving there.
"
I guess that's better than living with a low-quality parent. Like the kind that sends their kid to an "organization" to be raised."
Hi -- I'm the so called low quality parent you speak of -- out from the anon... Just exactly how many kids do you have??? You speak with such authority on the subject? How old are they??
Obviously I was not giving my son what he needed and I loved him enough to do the research and find someplace that could help us.
Having your child in a good program for 6 months is far better than what was happening at home.
My kid is alive, clean and sober and going to school every day. He tells me that he is happier than he has ever been and appreciates us caring enough to get him the help he needs.
If that makes me a low quality parent then I guess I am. I just wonder what makes you such an authority?
Come out from behind your anon and share your insightful wisdom with all of us.
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On 2006-01-09 12:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-07 07:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-06 17:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-05 21:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-12-23 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
You might check out Rancho Valmora in New Mexico -- my son is there and he really likes it.
Same acredidation as WWASP; NATSAP. They'd grant acredication to a school of fish. No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"
Honestly I didn't even look at that... Anybody can create their own accrediation group -- and just for the record -- the WWASPS are not accrediated by that group.
Maybe you should get your facts before you lump everyone together.
I called the state licensing board, I researched them over the internet (no not their corporate site), checked the local paper archives for news stories and went on a personal visit.
I could not find one scrap of negative information on them and when I visited them I had full access and was allowed to walk the grounds un escorted.
They are a high quality organization and my child is thriving there.
"
I guess that's better than living with a low-quality parent. Like the kind that sends their kid to an "organization" to be raised."
Hi -- I'm the so called low quality parent you speak of -- out from the anon... Just exactly how many kids do you have??? You speak with such authority on the subject? How old are they??
Obviously I was not giving my son what he needed and I loved him enough to do the research and find someplace that could help us.
Having your child in a good program for 6 months is far better than what was happening at home.
My kid is alive, clean and sober and going to school every day. He tells me that he is happier than he has ever been and appreciates us caring enough to get him the help he needs.
If that makes me a low quality parent then I guess I am. I just wonder what makes you such an authority?
Come out from behind your anon and share your insightful wisdom with all of us."
Sorry that was me...
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On 2006-01-09 15:03:00, Mykidsmom wrote:
My kid is alive, clean and sober and going to school every day. He tells me that he is happier than he has ever been and appreciates us caring enough to get him the help he needs.
Yeah, right. Any idea what happens to kids at Aspen who ask to leave?
Step 1. We came to understand that the government is powerless over people's private use of drugs and that the War on Drugs was making the government's life unmanageable.
--Scott Tillinghast
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On 2006-01-09 18:12:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2006-01-09 15:03:00, Mykidsmom wrote:
My kid is alive, clean and sober and going to school every day. He tells me that he is happier than he has ever been and appreciates us caring enough to get him the help he needs.
Yeah, right. Any idea what happens to kids at Aspen who ask to leave?
Step 1. We came to understand that the government is powerless over people's private use of drugs and that the War on Drugs was making the government's life unmanageable.
--Scott Tillinghast
"
I don't think you understood me. My kid is not at Aspen Ranch -- I visited Aspen Ranch and I got a very bad vibe from the place.
I was hearded around and only allowed to see what they wanted me to see. We were not allowed to go into the cafeteria where the kids were eating and to see what they were eating.
In fact when we were walking back to our car we saw a couple of kids being made to do pull ups with a Staff member watching them with a walkie talkie...
We went to take a picture of them and the guy said something into is radio and what do you know out comes our tour guide to show us to our car... I left there knowing my kid would never set foot in a place like that.
Again -- cut me some slack here. I'm not advocating one program over another I'm just telling another Mom that my experience on a visit to Apen Rabch validated her unfortunate experience of having her son there.
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anyone have their kid at rancho valmora
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Suggestion read Help at any Cost
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On 2006-01-09 05:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Amazing how the People who have only POSITIVES to say always hid behind "anonymous".... anything you say is simply not worth listening to? If you really know what your talking about come forward and stand up for your convictions with a real name!"
Want to know why that is, people? It's because there's a handful (at least) of rabid anti-any-school posters here who talk like they are a menace to anyone who has a different opinion.
I'm talking threats of finding disagreeing posters, coming to their homes and raping and killing them---and their children. I've seen that here.
More important than just words: these type of posters take action, posting people's personal information so their fellow psychopaths can harass people in their personal lives.
As a result the people who are identified may get threatening calls in the middle of the night,it's happened. They end up having to talk to lawyers and police, and put call-traps on their phones so that if the psychopaths call back there's a chance of locating them. Maybe these brave anti-school characters carry a label here, but they get a little shy and do not identify themselves when they call, you can be sure of that.
As far as I know nobody's been actually killed by a fornit's type so I guess that's something to be thankful for.
So that's why you don't see many positive opinions under an identifiable label. Who wants that kind of trouble.
Look around this site: there is very little hope of intelligent discussion, meaningful, respectful disagreement.
The only reason I've personally even posted here is because I want to give an alternative opinion to any parents with a kid in trouble who might be surfing around and looking for a school. We know from our own family experience that much good can come of placing a child in a residential program after all other alternatives have been tried.
If parents who stumble onto this site only saw the negatives they might get a really lop-sided view point. When we put our child in a program we were lucky enough to have been unknowledgable of the internet, hence we were spared the rantings constantly posted here.
To other parents, we have a wonderful outcome in our family, I beg you: talk to real people when making your decision. Don't go by a site like this. Aside from the obvious psychological problems of many of the anti-school posters, you can't even tell on a forum like this whether the people are real or playing some kind of malicious game.
And to other parents: in my opinion at least, you're making a big mistake if you post your name or other identifiers in the hope of direct communication as a source of information. Some of these posters are really scary, you don't want them contacting you if you decide to use a school and ignore their one-sided advice.
The site's owner seems to have no interest in removing personal information that gets posted here, by the way, so if you post your name or number or email, it may be for good, as will be the case if somebody else posts it.
So be careful. The site's owner seems to think that she is immune from consequences because others have posted this kind of info, even though she's the one who leaves it up even when there are threats associated with it.
Ultimately it will be a court (not a forum owner) who decides what is illegal or even criminal. On the Hidden Lakes Academy (HLA thread) you'll find posts by a crazy named Overlordd or something like that: Hidden Lakes ended up getting lawyers to force removal of his posts associated with that school (the posts in question are now gone due to the legal action although discussion of the whole legal process that occurred remains).
So we parents who are harassed do have recourse under the law, some of us are working on larger solutions like federal ways to discipline site owners, automatic money damages.
But anyone should think really long and hard before self-identifying here: ask yourself :"How much time, effort and money is it worth to me, do I really want to be associated with the madness that is Fornit's?".
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Thanks for the advice. I actually stopped posting here because it was futile to have any kind of rational discussion... I didn't remove myself from watched topics and so this one popped up and my curosity got the better of me and I clicked over.
Thanks for the warning... All I know is that a good program can work wonders -- if we as parents had the answers our kids would not be there in the first place.
This is what we do when we have exausted all of our knowledge -- it is the hardest thing that I have ever done but albeit the best course of action for my son.
He actually likes it at his program -- you see he feels a whole lot safer there than he did running the streets.
I'm actually going to spend the weekend with him this weekend -- we are going hiking (alone) and get to spend one on one time -- quality time where he is sober and we can talk - alone.
Geeee that sounds like quite the prision doesn't it....
Whatever people...
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You know whats interesting? The only people who on the HLA thread at least that try or threaten to release personal information are the pro-HLAers. I cannot comment on your personal experience or Aspen as I dont know anything about either one but I can tell you that it is the attorneys and stooges of HLA who try to use scare tactics and threats as a means of keeping the truth quiet.
Please dont make generalizations about situations you know nothing about.
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On 2006-02-25 09:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
As far as I know nobody's been actually killed by a fornit's type so I guess that's something to be thankful for.
Yes, that's one important difference between the troubled parent industry and your critics. Indeed, count your blessings and say a prayer for those less fortunate. I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
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Another very illustrative difference:
On 2006-02-25 09:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
Aside from the obvious psychological problems of many of the anti-school posters, you can't even tell on a forum like this whether the people are real or playing some kind of malicious game.
When you're in one of these programs, not just reading about it, there can be no mistake. You know, unambiguously, that they're playing some kind of malicious games!
You're just a wealth of information, anon! A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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On 2006-02-25 09:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
So we parents who are harassed do have recourse under the law, some of us are working on larger solutions like federal ways to discipline site owners, automatic money damages.
If you think you've been harassed then you may have recourse against the person doing the harassing. But trying to put it on me makes about as much sense as blaming the phone company for harassing calls or the postal service for junk mail.
Please see http://DCHfans.org/ (http://DCHfans.org/) Please do help me build my collection.
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to.
George Orwell, 1984
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Just thought I would let everyone know what has been going on. My son has been home now since pulling him from Aspen in December. He is at the public school on a 504. He is getting all A's. He is on the Forensics team, is back in Japanese, will be back on the Debate Team, is studying for his ACT's, is still on medication, and going to a great therapist, along with myself and the rest of the family when needed. He try's to keep in touch with some of the kids from Aspen. Other than normal teenage stuff he has been fairly respectful. As long as he is happy and moving along with his life, doing the things that he needs to do to make him independant one day I am happy. That is all. Thanks for being here to help me.
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KK why did you decide to bring your son home, and why did it take so long to let people know?
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I brought my son home because, as I stated in the first place, I was not really happy about Aspen Ranch. My son was not being tortured there, but he was in a behavior modification type program that was a one size fits all. I thought I was spending all this money sending my son to the "best Doctors and Therapist" and he would get specialized one on one help, and it was a bunch of bull. Aspen is just a money making cattle ranch. His therapist was trying and there were some people trying but overall, it was like just rope in a bunch of rich drug doing kids and will take your parents money and we will keep you here and teach you a lesson and you won't ever want to do drugs again because you won't want to come back here. My son didn't do drugs, he really was not a bad kid, the whole pissing on the picture was just a prank, he had some anger issues, but he was diagnosed with high functioning autism, anxiety disorder, OCD not ODD that is what all the kids are labeled at Aspen. He also has a verbal I.Q. of over 140 that was being wasted at a place that does not really care about academics. Anyway I am rambling.
The reason it took this long to write back is because I have been very busy I have 3 other kids,
and just keeping my son on the right meds and at his therapist appointments and he is studing for the ACT's etc. I just have not had time to let everyone know that I pulled him out.
I will say that I spent from 9 a.m. till 9 p.m. sometimes wondering around every part of Aspen Ranch ,came there without letting anyone know and they were fine with it. So if you have a really out of control situation it is not bad for a few months, I have to admit just the shock of him being away and seeing all that I think gave him alot to think about. I have asked him if he felt violated or abused in any way and he did not.
Anyway, if you have any more questions I will be happy to answer. Sorry about the punctuation, I am to tired for paragraphs!
KK:)
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Wow, this site is ridiculous. i was curious to find out about what people are saying about the aspen schools because i know someone who is concerned about her cousin and is not sure what to do. i went to swift river academy years ago and it was completely out of control. i didn't like my experience there at all and like many of the postings here, i noticed that many rich parents sent their kids away to get them off their backs - not out of any sort of real love or concern. in turn, their kids were spoiled, cruel brats - the kids that most students run from high school to get away from. some of these kids were clear reflections of their parents. but what i find so interesting about the comments on this forum is that they sound just like those kids. laughing at a statement about her son urinating on her picture??? wow, that's pretty mature. maybe that person needs a little re-education. anyway, for the mom who's having trouble with her son... i don't think a forum such as this is the best place to come for advice. why don't you go to an ed. consultant to find a boarding school that fits your son's needs better? and maybe the ed. consultant can help you find a good family therapist and if you think he's mildly autistic, get a diagnosis and find a place for him from there. there are programs that cater to autism - i imagine they run around the same tuition cost as therapeutic boarding schools, but search around. how did you hear about aspen ranch? ed. consultants usually have a lot of information about a variety of programs - more than postings on a forum. and if you can't get good information from someone in your area, search in bigger cities and make some phone calls - the bay area and ny have a wealth of information and services.
http://www.education-options.com/articl ... ulting.htm (http://www.education-options.com/articles/EducationalConsulting.htm)
http://www.strugglingteens.com/ec/index.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/ec/index.html)
http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/con ... ectory.php (http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/consultantdirectory.php)
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why don't you go to an ed. consultant
dumb advice.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/ec/index.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/ec/index.html)
dumbest advice ever.
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I used an Ed Consultant, that is what got me in this mess to begin with. She is the one that suggested Aspen, and then after I got the diagnosis of High Functioning Autism, OCD, Depression, etc. she would still give me names of places that were so of the wall, and not at all for my son's needs. She would get all huffy and explain to me that I was just asking for too much that a school could not provide everything for my son. I beg to differ, when I am forking over well over 120 thousand dollars a year in tuition alone that school better cater to every last need of my child health, physical mental well being. That is why I never sent him away. That is why he stayed at home. He is in therapy, and his meds are carefully watched, we have an open and honest relationship. We talk all the time. He told his therapist he did not want to lie to me and that he felt that it was important that it was in th open that he had recently expermented with marijuana at a party and he felt bad if it came up and he didn't want to ever lie to me. I gave him credit for that. I told him I don't condone it in the house and I do not want it to effect his grades or school, and he should never drive under the influence. We talked about the health dangers etc. He knows it is not something I was happy about but he says it is something is doing in moderation, I am a realist, there isn't to much I can do. I am happy he is honest. That is more than I can say for Ed Consultants or any of the schools the whole industry is a bunch of horse shit. Some people might be trying to do good, and a different enviroment is definetly a good choice but, send a kid to a strict aunt if you have and a good therapist. got to go
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I'd love to see what all these posters would do should they be 1) forced to give up their anonymity, and 2) actually be truthful about their personal experience with any of these places/programs. What I see is a lot of whining about what they think they ought to whine about. A big bucketful of lemmings.
Our daughter is at Aspen Ranch. She's relieved that she's getting the help she needs (and never was jammed into the mentioned diagnosis buckets). She finds the horse work soothing. The staff keeps to some structure, but is caring and decent to deal with. We can communicate with staff daily, with no complaints.
I won't discuss her reasons for being there other than to say she was severly traumatized, causing problems far beyond what home and local therapy could handle. She's working on things without undue pressure, no punitive measures, likes the environment and is very cooperative. And talking to us on the side, "Parent Week" isn't a big show, with conditions being miserable the rest of the time....it actually is fine the rest of the time.
So my take - don't listen to these snivelers. If your child needs help, Aspen Ranch is a nice place if it's a good fit style-wise with your child (i.e. some don't relate well to the "ranch/outdoors" idea and might be better suited to a more "gussied-up" urban environment).
:tup:
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And if you believe that load, i have a bridge to sell you.
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On 2006-05-26 12:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'd love to see what all these posters would do should they be 1) forced to give up their anonymity, and 2) actually be truthful about their personal experience with any of these places/programs. What I see is a lot of whining about what they think they ought to whine about. A big bucketful of lemmings.
Our daughter is at Aspen Ranch. She's relieved that she's getting the help she needs (and never was jammed into the mentioned diagnosis buckets). She finds the horse work soothing. The staff keeps to some structure, but is caring and decent to deal with. We can communicate with staff daily, with no complaints.
I won't discuss her reasons for being there other than to say she was severly traumatized, causing problems far beyond what home and local therapy could handle. She's working on things without undue pressure, no punitive measures, likes the environment and is very cooperative. And talking to us on the side, "Parent Week" isn't a big show, with conditions being miserable the rest of the time....it actually is fine the rest of the time.
So my take - don't listen to these snivelers. If your child needs help, Aspen Ranch is a nice place if it's a good fit style-wise with your child (i.e. some don't relate well to the "ranch/outdoors" idea and might be better suited to a more "gussied-up" urban environment).
:tup: "
Condemning anonymity while hiding behind it. Brilliant.
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"Condemning anonymity while hiding behind it. Brilliant."
Thanks you. It's only because of the silly attacks I've read, and the comments like "if you believe that load..." etc etc. If the naysayers would show some maturity and offer sustantiation to their attacks I'd be 1) interested, and 2) more than willing to NOT post annymously, since I'd feel I was dealing with people of morals and substance.
But the destructive criticism and "neener neener"-type statements are petty, empty and immature. I haven't seen much substance. In fact, I haven't seen ANY substance.
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While there may be a great deal of petty, angry, and immature writing here, I disagree that this forum is devoid of ANY substance. After all, I must at least defend my own posts. :smile:
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Aspen Ranch was about 6 thousand dollars a month. We had three different therapist in four months. Most of the interaction is with untrained folks who watch the kids in their cottages. I brought my teen home. I thought is seemed like punishment for her problems. The day we came home she got back on cocaine. We delt with it as a family problem and sought professionals in the community to help. Make your choices on your gut feelings as a parent. You know your own child.
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High turnover seems to be a problem.
I was noticing that ASR has had six directors in nine years.
Three different "substance abuse" programs.
From Juvenile Corrections to "Private-Pay Education".
Appears to be an ongoing experiment, at the kids expense.
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Directors seem to turn over about as often as school principals do nowadays - most of our local schools have a new admin staff every year or two, usually for geographical or family medical reasons. Doesn't seem unusual at all.
We were at Parent Week a couple weeks ago - our daughter was MUCH better, a lot of her old-self coming back. She was excitied that she was close to earning her saddle (certain horsemanship classes have to be completed before you get off barebak riding), has pretty much adopted her "own" horse, and is thriving. The only negative things I can comment on are a lot of hazing of new kids - but again, this is usual stuff at any "boarding" school, whether for troubled teens or not - and the staff deals with it appropriately.
We had plenty of time to meet with and ask questions of staff, could wander around and check out anything just about any time, ate with the kids and staff (comments were "hey, you guys are getting the same stuff we get", which was pretty decent. A lot of cafeteria-type food on a more nutritious scale, much recognizable Costco-branded stuff). Pizza one day from a local (THE local...) pizza place, which the kids get once a week or so.
The recreation activities wee trmemndous - the guy in charge is in a wheelchair...but doesn't let that stop him. He's enthusiastic, a super teacher, and uses problem-solving, not just "workout".stuff. The other teachers were communicative, far more dialed-in than public school teachers, and clearly communicated progress. goals, and answered questions.
The dorms are really nice - like an upscale "camp" or sorority house. Nice conditions, plenty of free time, and lots to do without undue controls. Day-to-day supervisors were very nice, got along well with the girls and always had their eyes moving - always watching...and that's a good thing.
The worst part of the whole trip was the long drive to and from Salt Lake City Airport. Even the local towns, Loa, Bicknell and Torrey were nice - and the scenery is stunning. The ranch itself is both huge and beautiful - oh, and the ropes course is working fine, and has been for quite some time.
But the most important thing is our daughter is making a turnaround - talks in letters (and while we were there) about the good things she misses, things she wants to do again, and how she's happy she's there - she DOES want to go home, but she's smart and knows she needs time to "reorient" herself. She smiles a lot now. She laughs when we talk to her on the phone. Those are things that had been missing for a long time.
If you think it might be appropriate for your son or daughter...if outdoors activity, working with animals as therapy, and a clean, country environment are what you are looking for, we highly recommend checking Aspen Ranch out. Call them, talk to several people on staff. Get a feel for the place, and see if it's a good fit. It is for our family, and it has likely saved our daughter's life. PS, my wife is making a surprise birthday trip to visit - and staff has arranged for a "package" to be picked up by our daughter at the office - the "package" being mom, and then a small party, plus extra visiting time while she's there - and this isn't "parent week", just regular school time. That really sounds like an awful, abusive place, huh?
If anyone has questions, post them and I will try to come back more often to answer. YOU ALWAYS have to make your own decisions, but one thing to remember is that complainers always are louder and more visible than happy folks, because they have an agenda....take that into consideration as well.
Best of luck and good wishes to anyone in a similar situation. I truly know how difficult it is.
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(http://http://gazuga.net/stuph/BULLSHIT-O-METER.gif)
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Cute - but typical valueless negative crap. I tell you a true story about MY daughter, who is a REAL person undergoing REAL problems...and is in a good place...
...and you can post a "bullshit" meter? Let's hear YOUR story, asswipe. I'll be happy to give you enough details to PROVE we were there...you won't.
Another loser proving the value of the "negative" posts here. Thank you for making my and other people's points for us.
Sometimes it's SO damned easy flushing out the losers. All it takes is telling the truth, and the people who kno nothing come running.
It's quite a giggle. Except for the fact that someone's child COULD be getting help, and you're useless posts chip away at that possibility.
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I tell you a true story about MY daughter, who is a REAL person undergoing REAL problems
(http://http://gazuga.net/stuph/BULLSHIT-O-METER.gif)
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I tell you a true story about MY daughter, who is a REAL person undergoing REAL problems
(http://http://gazuga.net/stuph/BULLSHIT-O-METER.gif)
i was thinking the exact SAME THING.
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I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.
Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.
And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.
Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them! :exclaim:
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KJ - You have told that you were ordered there by court order.
Did you not meat someone that were tricked or abducted there by their parents without the drug reason?
Did you not someone where you asked yourself afterwards:
"Why is this normal or shy kid here?"
Just a question
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I call staffer or troll. IP check please?
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I call staffer or troll. IP check please?
I do not think that KJ is a troll. I do believe in his story about him being sent there by court order.
If I were a Judge I would order the removal of all the children from his home and intensive family therapy for the entire family.
We do have some special isolated "homes" where family in crisis have to live in, if the children is at danger and that was obvious KJ's story.
I agree that programs are needed, but the use of them should only be when a court or another athority has evaluated the child. Not a single parent should be allowed to ship their own child away without approval. If they tried to, its jail-time. The child is the parents responbility and there are so many solutions at hand. It is only about swallowing your own pride and reach out for help.
Sending a child outside the homecountry should also be regarded as a crime unless it is the entire family that is moving. Moving to another town just to avoid being checked upon should be regarded as a crime. That is how child-molesters work. They need someone to convince that child that a rape is a bad dream or the child herself is to blame. And that is were the program can be of service to the molester, because no program would shut down the money-source. Not for a second. They would aid the molester and make the child think that a rape is the child's own fault.
So I say yes to programs generally, but no programs without the athorities in the hometown of the child checking into it and no to programs that enable a child going there without court order.
And as a last security precausion: The child should have acces to at telephone hot-line to the social services in his hometown without censorship 24-7.
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KJ=HER! (not him)
my parents did clean up for the most part while I was there as a result of my using while there (failing drug tests after visits, and snorting meds).
We used AR as a school, a place to get off the drugs w/ treatment, but the main thing was to get 2 felonies off my record....which was done.
I've been home since July 14th and haven't touched drugs since before that. Things are going well now, my parents are doing as good as they can. It's easy for me to deal with them, they've been this way my whole life. I have a 21 year old brother who is an extreme straight edge (i.e.no drugs, drinking, etc) kid.
Someone asked if I had not seen people there and wondered why they were there, yes this did happen but it was only maybe 2% of the population there. I found that kids who didn't have drug problems had extreme anger issues and often got into fist fights and LOTS of verbal fights (drama was a mainstream thing on the girls teams)
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(http://http://gazuga.net/stuph/BULLSHIT-O-METER.gif)
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I can understand the drug issue, but not the anger issue.
We do not have laws about sexual harassment etc. and girls are expected to slap an offender in the face if he does not listen to a message. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_har ... isdictions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment#Other_jurisdictions)
That difference in our cultures meant catastrophe for a fellow countrywoman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Andersen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Andersen) She had to undergo a rough and unnessesary treatment, that properly will destroy her life on long term and make it impossible to socialise in the Danish society. It is a punishment that did not suit the claimed crime and correspond to being ordered to wear a bandage when the leg is not broken.
In Denmark no court would address an anger issue. If that anger issue results in crime, its jail time. But we would never try to order someone to alter their behavior. And there is a very good reason for doing so, because when can you stop altering people personalities and maintain democracy.
And your statement only strengthen my position: A program should only be used as a result of a court order. No child should be sent to a program without a sentence. 2% in the wrong place is 2% whose life is at danger.
I am glad that the torment did turn out good for you but remember that they did not save your life. It is up to you.
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Perhaps it's time for all states to adopt regs similar to Utah's, specifically for TBSs. It would not allow violent kids in TBSs. They'd have to go to RTCs. Keep in mind a program owner and NATSAP helped create these regs.
i. A therapeutic [boarding] school shall not admit or provide services to an individual who:
A. has a recent history (within the past 2 years) of attempting suicide or making serious self-harm gestures (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),
B. has a psychosis, schizophrenia, severe depression, mental retardation, or a severe mental illness (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),
C. is violent, highly combative, or physically or sexually aggressive,
D. presents substantial security risks,
E. requires medical detoxification,
F. lacks the ability to engage in a rational decision-making process or exhibits severely impaired judgment, or
G. has a history of repeated runaway attempts or incidents;
ii. A therapeutic school shall expel a client who exhibits high risk behavior or conditions, including but not limited to a client who:
A. attempts suicide or makes serious self-harm gestures (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),
B. has a psychosis, schizophrenia, severe depression, mental retardation, or a severe mental illness (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),
C. is violent, highly combative, or physically or sexually aggressive,
D. presents substantial security risks,
E. requires medical detoxification,
F. lacks the ability to engage in a rational decision-making process or exhibits severely impaired judgment,
G. runs away or attempts to runaway more than two times,
H. uses or attempts to use illegal substances (including but not limited to drugs or alcohol) more than two times, or
I. exhibits any other behavioral or emotional conditions that require more intense supervision and treatment than that permitted in a therapeutic school;
~~
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I'm the one with the daughter at Aspen. Sorry for not following up more, I lost the link to this place.
The Milk Gargler's Bullshit sign is merely troll behavior.
Our daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents. She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.
I almost (well, actually did) cry. She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there. Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD. Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.
She's blowing thorough her high school studies, and to ensure it's "real" school her home district did some testing - she was beyond her normal Junior-year level. I did some poking around with colleges, and most consider Aspen Ranch as a private school with high expectations, and it looks good on college applications.
Most interestingly, while she really want to be home to see her "normal" friends she LIKES it there. It's a beautiful place, and she's fallen head-over-heels in love with the horses. She's taking training classes so when she comes back she can work part-time at a stable (we have a connection through our oldest son's girlfriend, luckily), train and teach riding, and go to either a junior college of local State University.
She has goals, she's sober, she has finally opened up to others about her problems, and Aspen HAS SAVED HER LIFE. She would be DEAD if we had not somehow gotten her there.
Put THAT in your bullshit meter and choke on it.
Yes, they have staff and director changes. The whole county has 2700 people in it, and employees often find what they thought would be an idyllic lifestyle is too limiting. Others just have not worked out, and they do have a limited amount of people looking to work in a remote area...plus their requirements are apparently pretty high for teachers AND staff, as except for a few marginally strict people everyone is caring, kind, and all, based on my observations, are well qualified.
I can't adress other places like Provo, Aspen Acheivement, Swift River etc. - but I can tell you I sat in a 6-month review meeting yesterday with the state (where we live) department of mental health, our school district, my wife and I, and 6 Aspen education and therapeutic staff on the phone and when it was over our district folks and the state (who share much of the cost) were extremely happy about her progress and the overall attitude and intelligence of the Ranch people. They agreed that it saved her life, is just tremendous, and ar working already with Aspen staff for continuing education and aftercare plans.
Since our daughter went there two other girls from the district have also started there based on our daughter's success, and talking to them while I was there they had the same outlook as our daughter - it's not "fun" being sent away, but after the initial resentment is gone they all realize it's what they needed, are enjoying the accellerated and personal-attention school system, the equine therapy (which I have not spoken enough about - the equine therapists are truly some of the most amazing, caring, loving, and perceptive humans I've ever met) is not so much an "activity" as REAL therapy, and also have goals and dreams now.
I will continue to support Aspen Ranch somehow after our daughter graduates from the program, even though we will never be allowed to visit again for privacy reasons. But we will remain in contact with people. FWIW one of the part-time residential staffers left to simply work less hours and is working in a local restaurant owned by family. She specifically asked to be allowed to come to our daughter's graduation and speak (which has been approved); she sat with us at breakfast and was continuing her care even though she doesn't even work there any longer. THAT'S the type of people that work at Aspen Ranch.
So post all the meaningless, no-backup BS signs you want. But I will be happy to answer any REAL questions at silverface@gmail.com.
Happy Holidays to all
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Hmm, it's an old thread.. the actual person with a daughter at ASR... let me see if I can find it...
I thought is seemed like punishment for her problems. The day we came home she got back on cocaine.
I'm sorry if I inadvertently offended... ah, wait, never mind. You're not her, you're that troll. And with a new song, too.
So do they pay you by the word for this, or what?
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I'm the one with the daughter at Aspen. Sorry for not following up more, I lost the link to this place.
The Milk Gargler's Bullshit sign is merely troll behavior.
Our daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents. She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.
I almost (well, actually did) cry. She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there. Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD. Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.
She's blowing thorough her high school studies, and to ensure it's "real" school her home district did some testing - she was beyond her normal Junior-year level. I did some poking around with colleges, and most consider Aspen Ranch as a private school with high expectations, and it looks good on college applications.
Most interestingly, while she really want to be home to see her "normal" friends she LIKES it there. It's a beautiful place, and she's fallen head-over-heels in love with the horses. She's taking training classes so when she comes back she can work part-time at a stable (we have a connection through our oldest son's girlfriend, luckily), train and teach riding, and go to either a junior college of local State University.
She has goals, she's sober, she has finally opened up to others about her problems, and Aspen HAS SAVED HER LIFE. She would be DEAD if we had not somehow gotten her there.
Put THAT in your bullshit meter and choke on it.
Yes, they have staff and director changes. The whole county has 2700 people in it, and employees often find what they thought would be an idyllic lifestyle is too limiting. Others just have not worked out, and they do have a limited amount of people looking to work in a remote area...plus their requirements are apparently pretty high for teachers AND staff, as except for a few marginally strict people everyone is caring, kind, and all, based on my observations, are well qualified.
I can't adress other places like Provo, Aspen Acheivement, Swift River etc. - but I can tell you I sat in a 6-month review meeting yesterday with the state (where we live) department of mental health, our school district, my wife and I, and 6 Aspen education and therapeutic staff on the phone and when it was over our district folks and the state (who share much of the cost) were extremely happy about her progress and the overall attitude and intelligence of the Ranch people. They agreed that it saved her life, is just tremendous, and ar working already with Aspen staff for continuing education and aftercare plans.
Since our daughter went there two other girls from the district have also started there based on our daughter's success, and talking to them while I was there they had the same outlook as our daughter - it's not "fun" being sent away, but after the initial resentment is gone they all realize it's what they needed, are enjoying the accellerated and personal-attention school system, the equine therapy (which I have not spoken enough about - the equine therapists are truly some of the most amazing, caring, loving, and perceptive humans I've ever met) is not so much an "activity" as REAL therapy, and also have goals and dreams now.
I will continue to support Aspen Ranch somehow after our daughter graduates from the program, even though we will never be allowed to visit again for privacy reasons. But we will remain in contact with people. FWIW one of the part-time residential staffers left to simply work less hours and is working in a local restaurant owned by family. She specifically asked to be allowed to come to our daughter's graduation and speak (which has been approved); she sat with us at breakfast and was continuing her care even though she doesn't even work there any longer. THAT'S the type of people that work at Aspen Ranch.
So post all the meaningless, no-backup BS signs you want. But I will be happy to answer any REAL questions at silverface@gmail.com.
Happy Holidays to all
Hey, uh, you got any... verification of what it is you say?
Yanno, something to demonstrate that you're not just lying through your teeth? :wink:
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You guys are a riot. someone posts a real experience and all you do is ridicule and insult, yet you have nothing to say regarding personal experience.
I stay at the Chuckwagon in Torrey or the Snuggle Inn in Loa. The Snuggle Inn has a computer in the lobby and a wireless network-there are a couple of kid's bikes and a scooter in the driveway; the Chuckwagon also has wireless, and free coffee for guests in the gift shop/bakery. The Ranch had frosted cinnamon rolls at breakfast last Sunday. If you walk into the Loa Texaco station, the racks of snacks are directly in front of you and the coffee to the left, around the main counter. By the way, it snowed a bit on Friday midday on the drive from Salt Lake City to Loa - down 15 to 50, down main St. in Aurora and on to highway 24.
Drove to Cedar City on Saturday - they were having a parade and the main drag was blocked off.
that'll have to do for now.
Now - what can you BS-claimers tell ME to prove that you have any clue about the ranch, the town....or anything else?
I'm offering real advice and a contact - what about you?
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Even if there is no wall at the ranch, she can not leave the ranch of her own free will and that defines the place as a kind of prison.
A prison is a place where people which have broken the law are ordered to stay by the courtsystem.
I just totally lack understanding of why anyone wants to imprison once own child.
We only do have very few boarding schools in Denmark and none of them are treatment centres. Those we have are for people which have acknowledged their own limitations as parents. They have informed the local athorities of their lack or the athorities has intervened in their own, so the placement on a boarding school is done under supervision of the athorities, so no child is lost in the proces.
As a parent I know that the world in dangerous. Some parents teach their child of dangers, others tries to remove them. They are in Denmark called curling parents, because the sweap dangers away in front of the child like it is done in front the stone in curling.
Those children are at risk when they grow up and the parents are no longer present. Locking a child up is actually the most extreme a curling parent can do. I don't question your love for your child, but I fear the day when she is adult and can leave your home for good.
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You guys are a riot. someone posts a real experience and all you do is ridicule and insult, yet you have nothing to say regarding personal experience.
I stay at the Chuckwagon in Torrey or the Snuggle Inn in Loa. The Snuggle Inn has a computer in the lobby and a wireless network-there are a couple of kid's bikes and a scooter in the driveway; the Chuckwagon also has wireless, and free coffee for guests in the gift shop/bakery. The Ranch had frosted cinnamon rolls at breakfast last Sunday. If you walk into the Loa Texaco station, the racks of snacks are directly in front of you and the coffee to the left, around the main counter. By the way, it snowed a bit on Friday midday on the drive from Salt Lake City to Loa - down 15 to 50, down main St. in Aurora and on to highway 24.
Drove to Cedar City on Saturday - they were having a parade and the main drag was blocked off.
that'll have to do for now.
Now - what can you BS-claimers tell ME to prove that you have any clue about the ranch, the town....or anything else?
I'm offering real advice and a contact - what about you?
That's got nothing to do with the whole "isolation/brainwashing" part of the program or the "they cant leave" part of the program, aka the abusive non-consentual parts we care about?
Wow, you know the area. Congrats. Many people never bother to see where their children are located!
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As a parent I know that the world in dangerous. Some parents teach their child of dangers, others tries to remove them. They are in Denmark called curling parents, because the sweap dangers away in front of the child like it is done in front the stone in curling.
:rofl: Love that analogy!!
Lots of curlers in America. Beginning from birth, and to the point that it interferes with the child physical, social, and emotional development.
Repairing the damage these parents, unawarely, cause is good for segments of the economy- medical, mental health, pharmaceutical, rehabs, teen warehouses, and/or eventually prisons; originally called penitentiaries- designed to inspire penitence in the hearts of convicts.
Just heard a fascinating expose on NPR about the first penitentiary- Eastern State, which is now a Museum!!
http://www.easternstate.org/ (http://www.easternstate.org/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_State_Penitentiary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_State_Penitentiary)
The Penitentiary was intended not simply to punish, but to move the criminal toward spiritual reflection and change. The method was a Quaker-inspired system of isolation from other prisoners, with labor. The early system was strict. To prevent distraction, knowledge of the building, and even mild interaction with guards, inmates were hooded whenever they were outside their cells.
Eastern State was viewed as a progressive reform (Enlightenment Era)in that it eliminated many of the excesses of physical punishment in colonial America. Despite this, it was widely believed (then and now) to have caused significant mental illness among its prisoners due to its solitary confinement.
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Curling? Donuts?
You people are fools.
It's not a matter of "locking up" kids. It's a matter of them getting well.
Our daughter knew she was in a bad situation, and left home because she didn't want to burden us. She also sees this whole thing as a chance to survive and thrive - without it she would have been dead. Like many others, she's there because of problems related to non-familial abuse. In her case, an abdction and things I'd rather not think about. It's wiped her out mentally. She's in a solid therapeutic environment, has new goals....and I don't know where any of you get the "locked up" idea from, because they soon rise in levels and are alllowed extended time off-campus, much of it relatively unsupervised - because they have grown and earned it.
But to return to the important point...without the Ranch she'd be dead. She knows this and is thankful for it. She's not there as punishment.
You idiots have NO idea what you are even talking about - your criticizing a place and a program you are unfamiliar with, simply because you make incorrect assumptions. I thought initially this was a semi-support forum. Now I see what it is - a haven for people who know nothing and rabble rousers, plus people from foreign countries who know even LESS. Curling? Oh, please - spare me.
And BTW - I'm a guy, not "ma'am".
This is a simple case of you all taking the stance "my mind is made up - don't confuse me with the facts".
My daughter was horribly abused and traumatized, and is now recovering and growing. I guess you all would just prefer she had died. None of your logic works, you use BS meters in place of discussion, you've never been there - I can't believe how uncaring you all are - because you have NO idea of any of the REAL situations involved.
Goodbye.
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[troll7]
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[troll7]
Isn't "survive and thrive" so obvious it should be dropped a few points? :(
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Curling? Donuts?
You people are fools.
It's not a matter of "locking up" kids. It's a matter of them getting well.
Our daughter knew she was in a bad situation, and left home because she didn't want to burden us. She also sees this whole thing as a chance to survive and thrive - without it she would have been dead. Like many others, she's there because of problems related to non-familial abuse. In her case, an abdction and things I'd rather not think about. It's wiped her out mentally. She's in a solid therapeutic environment, has new goals....and I don't know where any of you get the "locked up" idea from, because they soon rise in levels and are alllowed extended time off-campus, much of it relatively unsupervised - because they have grown and earned it.
But to return to the important point...without the Ranch she'd be dead. She knows this and is thankful for it. She's not there as punishment.
You idiots have NO idea what you are even talking about - your criticizing a place and a program you are unfamiliar with, simply because you make incorrect assumptions. I thought initially this was a semi-support forum. Now I see what it is - a haven for people who know nothing and rabble rousers, plus people from foreign countries who know even LESS. Curling? Oh, please - spare me.
And BTW - I'm a guy, not "ma'am".
This is a simple case of you all taking the stance "my mind is made up - don't confuse me with the facts".
My daughter was horribly abused and traumatized, and is now recovering and growing. I guess you all would just prefer she had died. None of your logic works, you use BS meters in place of discussion, you've never been there - I can't believe how uncaring you all are - because you have NO idea of any of the REAL situations involved.
Goodbye.
Back when I started to post in here, it surprised me who different a country that we stands shoulder to shoulder with in the fight against terrorism, are.
Do you think, that we don't have drugs, drug-rape, crimes, DUI, even murder in my country too?
Of course we do.
But we don't lock people up that needs help. We help them at their homes instead. It is costly for our society, I agree to that. Every puplic school has backup system and our society also buys parents off their normal work for a period so they can be at school watching over their child so troubled children can avoid medication. It is called family classes.
A lot of efforts are done in order to prevent children from being removed from their homes. Some families are even ordered to move into observation homes, so their level of communication and emotional life can observed, analyzed and improved.
Yet, in the end some children ends up being removed from their homes. It is sad, but i some cases a child is better off at another place than the home. However, it is not done by a decision by the parents alone. It is done by members of the local town council based on reports from their employees and if the parents wants to appeal, we have a court system for that.
Removing a child from its home is a serious decision and it will in most cases only result in the second best outcome.
I am glad I am living in a place where a placement outside the home is done with a goal of achieveing the maximum result at shortest time possible because the employees at our facilities has a responsibility against our taxpayers too. They are not in business for the money and they are watched very carefully.
Also any problem is only then solved when the child or as it is the case with my lastest encounter with our psychiatric system - an adult familymember (depression) - when the person in question are able to leave the facility and exist at home without the shield of the lockup facility.
The lockup functions two ways. It also prevent the patient from the dangers of the outside world and can in fact be a sleep pillow so the condition of the patient does not improve. A cure can be called a cure or life-saver in the second the patient is back home and can function as before the time of lockup. Not a second before!
And it is scary to return home. I have spent the last two weeks talking to my familymember and repeatly asked her to slow her pace down and look out for her self. There have been crisis, but we are on the track for better.
No we don't wish your daughter dead. We just want to point out, that she is not cured or saved yet. The treatment starts for real, when she return home. The treatment is just delayed at the ranch.
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Programs dont treat or fix anything, they make people act a certain way through breakdowns and torement of various types.
Even if it WAS therapy, 'thriving' (UGH) in an institution has nothing to do with real life!
I'm glad you brought that up, covergaard, but the bottom line is programs don't even give therapy at all, anyway.
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"our society also buys parents off their normal work for a period so they can be at school watching over their child"
That's a wonderful system. However, it's completely irrelevant here as we do not have that option, unfortunately.
I can speak pretty well for my child - I just spent another 5 days with her, mostly off-campus on a "Utah visit". She could say whatever she wanted, go shopping, go to movies...and her main topic was how she wants to get back home, but would never have been able to without the Ranch. We spent a couple hours on the computer looking at horse boarding, since she's planning on buying a horse when she leaves (one of the ranch equine therapists came in for several hours on an off-day just so we could ride with our daughter).
She's in an accelerated high school program that's (check it out yourself) highly rated by public and private colleges, ranking with high-dollar prep schools...and is again pulling almost straight-A's. One residential staff person - one of the supposedly "abusive" people if you look at other sites - asked us to come by her new job to say hi - and she wants to come to our daughter's graduation. Another staff person brought some puppies to the team for them to play with for a couple days; another bought a Christmas tree and decorations, and took the whole team out for dinner and to a non-denominational church Christmas eve.
Sure, there are a couple staff people she doesn't like, but that's life. All her teachers she adores, and she's getting great reports. Her home district did some testing and found her to be far above her "normal" level - about a grade ahead when she SHOULD be a grade behind because of her trauma and troubles.
So play with your BS meters and other ignorant crap all you want - it's not a prison, it's not abusive, and it's saved at least ONE life for sure. We have parents with problems coming to us, and we recommend they check it out along with other programs, as the "ranch" might not be a good fit for some kids. But we do not hesitate to recommend it, or even to talk to the other kids about it and answer question straight-up.
We are lucky to have her there under a state/school district sponsored program...we could never afford it out-of-pocket, but if I HAD to, I'd find a way...and when she graduates, I willl find some way to support it afterwards - you have NO idea what it means to a parent when you watch your daughter go from a broken shell to a growing teenager. She has a long way to go yet, but knows it and is handling it fine. The telling comment to me was "I like it here - I don't want to LIVE here forever - but I like it." That and the fact she's alive.
It certainly would be nice if we had programs as they apparently do in some countries where parents can take time off and work with their kids in need, but I'm not sure that's enough in the therapeutic sense - parents are NOT therapists...we sure aren't.
Anyway, we're thankful and so is she. And in all the "meters" and sarcastic "donut" lines, I haven't read a single fact...or educated, knowledgable opinion...that is counter to anything I've related.
So if you have hard facts...or even an intelligent opinion...I'd be willing to listen and discuss it. But the bullshit meters and other 8th-grade crap just makes the naysayers look exceedingly incapable of expressing anything intelligent. You think anyone with an ounce of brains forms an opinion about a program on the basis of a graphic swiped from another site?
I'm not saying to take everything I say as gospel...but I AM giving some examples and opinions with actual content.
And I wonder how many of the goofballs are even parents? Or kids who have been through a program?
My guess? Zero.
I respect the European poster who lives with a different system.. That at least has some basis in reality. But the hit-and-run trolls have said nothing at all so far.
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Wow, 13 days and no one has posted any negative content of any value...just a "kool aid" comment?
I guess you lose steam when you have no proof of anything. Even the milk choker has bailed.
Or maybe people are actually realizing things aren't quite what the rumor-mongers say they are.
Our daughter gets a home visit soon. That will be a real test of how she's doing. I would hope, no matter what you think of the school, you would wish her well on her first visit home.
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That home visit might actually mean something if she didn't know she'd be sent right back, regardless of what she says, and punished if she said anything bad...
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That home visit might actually mean something if it was real.
Fixed!
Listen, chimpo, just because you can post a whole lot of amazingly detailed bullshit, doesn't make it any less bullshit. I write fiction too. So does Covergaard. We have post after post after post on this board from real people saying the place is a shitpit (e.g. "My daughter got right back on cocaine"), a very ugly video on YouTube featuring a horrifying restraint... and then, you, probably some staff member, posts a huge glut of this crap, and tries to keep it on top?
Of course it's not worth replying to. It's not real. It's just shit.
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Wow, 13 days and no one has posted any negative content of any value...just a "kool aid" comment?
I guess you lose steam when you have no proof of anything. Even the milk choker has bailed.
Or maybe people are actually realizing things aren't quite what the rumor-mongers say they are.
Our daughter gets a home visit soon. That will be a real test of how she's doing. I would hope, no matter what you think of the school, you would wish her well on her first visit home.
I have been busy on wikipedia describing level systems at wwasp and other aspen programs. However, I have not forgotten about Aspen Ranch. Expect to find it on wikipedia soon. I am in touch with former detainees.
I dont feel like bullying any parent at present time. The hard work is ahead of you, when your child returns to the real world without the protection against temptations the isolation at the ranch has been for her. She will need ALL your support - even more support than she got in the program. I dont envy you!
I wish you all the luck you can get. You will need it!
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"our society also buys parents off their normal work for a period so they can be at school watching over their child"
That's a wonderful system. However, it's completely irrelevant here as we do not have that option, unfortunately.
Yes you do have a choice, it may not be easy or convenient but it's for your child and well worth the sacrifices...
I can speak pretty well for my child - I just spent another 5 days with her, mostly off-campus on a "Utah visit". She could say whatever she wanted, go shopping, go to movies...and her main topic was how she wants to get back home, but would never have been able to without the Ranch.
I'm not surprised by your daughters reaction, even in the most abusive programs you will find this reaction common among kids still in the program or a few years out of the program.
Despite what you may believe your daughter was not free to tell you whatever she wanted to. Here's why - She would face accusations of manipulation if she was to say anything bad about the program. No doubt you would have talked to staff about any accusation and they would deny it, tell you not to believe her manipulations, and she would be dropped a few levels lengthening her stay.
- The nature of the program is one of thought reform. It uses many of the tactic types of thought reform as defined by Margaret Singer (http://http://www.freeminds.org/psych/thought_reform.htm):[li] TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: A. Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine activities; C. Decreased sleep; D. Nutritional restriction.
- TACTIC 2[/b]. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. (In the forerunner to coercive persuasion, brainwashing, this was rather easy to achieve through simple imprisonment.)
- TACTIC 3[/b]. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.
- TACTIC 4[/b]. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality.
- TACTIC 5[/b]. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness.
- TACTIC 6[/b]. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.
- TACTIC 7[/b]. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).
[/li]
[li]Aspen has most likely had enough time to break her, as such she will no longer question the program in a way that could bring any consequences upon herself. This is called survival mode and is present in victims of different types of abuse.
To make it she must fake it and fake it long enough with the right reinforcement:- parental approval,
- allowed to be part of the group,
- rewards for accepting the group's identity and beliefs,
- etc
[/li][/list]
she will believe it with, and with great fervor.
This is obviously demonstrated in what your daughter said about returning home but only because of the ranch
- It's not uncommon for victims to become attached to their abuser. It's called Stockholm's syndrome (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) and is a documented fact. Even though you had time alone with her Stockholm's syndrome (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) would have prevented her from seeking escape.
We spent a couple hours on the computer looking at horse boarding, since she's planning on buying a horse when she leaves (one of the ranch equine therapists came in for several hours on an off-day just so we could ride with our daughter).
She's in an accelerated high school program that's (check it out yourself) highly rated by public and private colleges, ranking with high-dollar prep schools...and is again pulling almost straight-A's. One residential staff person - one of the supposedly "abusive" people if you look at other sites - asked us to come by her new job to say hi - and she wants to come to our daughter's graduation. Another staff person brought some puppies to the team for them to play with for a couple days; another bought a Christmas tree and decorations, and took the whole team out for dinner and to a non-denominational church Christmas eve.
She is apart of the group now, a trusty, who is now afforded privileges not offered to those outside of the group. This is a two fold thing however, a velvet glove over an iron fist. These privileges reward here for accepting the group think and philosophy, however it also increases her dependence on the group. If she's not lock step with the program those privileges will turn into antagonistic weapons of manipulation to get her back in line with the group's think.
Sure, there are a couple staff people she doesn't like, but that's life. All her teachers she adores, and she's getting great reports. Her home district did some testing and found her to be far above her "normal" level - about a grade ahead when she SHOULD be a grade behind because of her trauma and troubles.
Will her school credits transfer to any school are only a certain few? Did she pick the university with or without the programs input? I believe that your daughter SHOULD NOT have been held back, having "trauma" does not make one stupid. Not knowing the AEG's schools I'm not sure if they go the self teaching route like most programs do. If you have a link to some info please provide it.
So play with your BS meters and other ignorant crap all you want - it's not a prison, it's not abusive, and it's saved at least ONE life for sure. We have parents with problems coming to us, and we recommend they check it out along with other programs, as the "ranch" might not be a good fit for some kids. But we do not hesitate to recommend it, or even to talk to the other kids about it and answer question straight-up.
We are lucky to have her there under a state/school district sponsored program...we could never afford it out-of-pocket, but if I HAD to, I'd find a way...and when she graduates, I willl find some way to support it afterwards - you have NO idea what it means to a parent when you watch your daughter go from a broken shell to a growing teenager. She has a long way to go yet, but knows it and is handling it fine. The telling comment to me was "I like it here - I don't want to LIVE here forever - but I like it." That and the fact she's alive.
Every program parent says this, even Straight,INC parents. I suggest you read the postings of survivors in regards to their parents, I believe you will find it to be quiet reflective.. Nothing short of a video of the abuse will ever make you believe differently, so oh well.....
It certainly would be nice if we had programs as they apparently do in some countries where parents can take time off and work with their kids in need, but I'm not sure that's enough in the therapeutic sense - parents are NOT therapists...we sure aren't.
Neither is the the staff that runs most of the therapy sessions
Anyway, we're thankful and so is she. And in all the "meters" and sarcastic "donut" lines, I haven't read a single fact...or educated, knowledgable opinion...that is counter to anything I've related.
Really?
So if you have hard facts...or even an intelligent opinion...I'd be willing to listen and discuss it. But the bullshit meters and other 8th-grade crap just makes the naysayers look exceedingly incapable of expressing anything intelligent. You think anyone with an ounce of brains forms an opinion about a program on the basis of a graphic swiped from another site?
Tell me what made you pick AEG as the program to send your child too? website, ed-con, parent... Certainly not brains or expert opinions (http://http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=357&Itemid=35) regarding programs
I'm not saying to take everything I say as gospel...but I AM giving some examples and opinions with actual content.
And I wonder how many of the goofballs are even parents? Or kids who have been through a program?
My guess? Zero.
Don't be silly this is fornits :lol:
I respect the European poster who lives with a different system.. That at least has some basis in reality. But the hit-and-run trolls have said nothing at all so far.
:roll:
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I'm not surprised by your daughters reaction, even in the most abusive programs you will find this reaction common among kids still in the program or a few years out of the program.
Despite what you may believe your daughter was not free to tell you whatever she wanted to. Here's why - She would face accusations of manipulation if she was to say anything bad about the program. No doubt you would have talked to staff about any accusation and they would deny it, tell you not to believe her manipulations, and she would be dropped a few levels lengthening her stay.
- The nature of the program is one of thought reform. It uses many of the tactic types of thought reform as defined by Margaret Singer (http://http://www.freeminds.org/psych/thought_reform.htm)]
Hit the nail on the head. I couldn't believe it the first time I went through this site http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/). Singer, Lifton and Hassan.
She is apart of the group now, a trusty, who is now afforded privileges not offered to those outside of the group. This is a two fold thing however, a velvet glove over an iron fist. These privileges reward here for accepting the group think and philosophy, however it also increases her dependence on the group. If she's not lock step with the program those privileges will turn into antagonistic weapons of manipulation to get her back in line with the group's think.
Yep. At Straight it was "phases". 1 - 5. We lived in fear of getting "set-back". I was on 4th phase after 18 months and was started over. That was the worst of the phase drops. I had been "put on refresher", a "no phase" and various other phase drops. It's all classic mind control.
Every program parent says this, even Straight,INC parents. I suggest you read the postings of survivors in regards to their parents, I believe you will find it to be quiet reflective.. Nothing short of a video of the abuse will ever make you believe differently, so oh well.....
Yep. My dad said pretty much verbatim what that parent wrote.
I willl find some way to support it afterwards - you have NO idea what it means to a parent when you watch your daughter go from a broken shell to a growing teenager.
And I wonder how many of the goofballs are even parents? Or kids who have been through a program?
My guess? Zero.
Yes I do. Been in a program and have two grown daughters, one of which scared the crap out of me for about 5 or 6 years. Read my posts or ask if you're interested, I'm not gonna bore everyone again. :)
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Lucky me! My one 100th post is also the 100th reply.... I'm going to win a million dollars :D
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Ranch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Ranch)
Enjoy.
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Covergaard, you rock!! I didn't see the LifeSteps though. That's, IMO, one of the most dangerous aspects of this place.
Who, everything that I read about ASR smacks of Straight. Not just the anti stuff either. What you and other pro people have posted too. It's really no different and even you admit that Straight was abusive. So is ASR.
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I have found Aspen Ranch on MapQuest (Thank you for placing AR on the hillside. It made it easier. It is placed a couple of miles west of Loa.The road is not named on the either of the maps.), but when I used Msn-maps, the place was a desert.
The school is more than 10 years old. I can not believe that M$ have only a 10 year old air photo of that place.
Knowing that both M$ and Aspen have their HQ in California, is it unthinkable that they have some kind of corporate agreement so M$ employees can place their so-called troubled youth at a remote place?
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It is, in fact, unthinkable.
Nerds are too smart for this shit.
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Covergaard, you rock!! I didn't see the LifeSteps though. That's, IMO, one of the most dangerous aspects of this place.
One former detainee has informed me that the good children (Those who buys into the program for real) are driven down to Copper Canyon to the seminars.
So in a way they dont have lifesteps seminars at Aspen Ranch. It is not a lock down facility. Some detainees has managed to escape even though it is placed very remote.
Such seminars which could by nature be abusive has to be held in an environment where no strangers can look in and it is hard for the participants to leave. Copper Canyon is properly more like a prison than Aspen is.
It is very difficult for me to find anything written down about the lifestep - program. I would like to have something about on a pdf. Then I could create a stub (sub-page) from the involved facilities.
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I am the parent of a boy who spent a year in treatment was was out for less then 30 days before he got busted for possession at school -- ask me how good I am feeling 100K later.....
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Will her school credits transfer to any school are only a certain few? Did she pick the university with or without the programs input?
Any school, and she's picking schools without program input.
I note the Wikipeia stuff got nuked. "consider the source" obviously applies.
Our daughter is at the top level of the program and has never been to Copper - that sorta blows that bullshit out of the water.
The whole mind-control "Tactics" post was a total laugher.
I love watching the clueless continue to babble about nothing.
In the meantime, our daughter has a summer job for two weeks when she comes home, another mentoring kids in the fall, a learner's permit, a near 4.0, high SAT's (yes, taken at the Ranch), a pile of college acceptance letters from known schools, a new horse (the only downside expense-wise when she comes home!) and most importantly, her life back. She LOOKS like a teenager again, with a healthy glow and sparkle in her eyes.
We've spent many, many days and evenings at the Ranch, as have other parents...and we all get a giggle out of the posts here. Unfortunately, someone whose child needs help will read them and be persuaded that AR is a bad place. That's sad, because you folks have not a single friggin' clue what you are talking about. Sorry - you're all simply wrong. Spread all the propaganda you want - the conditions, control measures and manipulation you spout off about do not exist.
But at least you all have a hobby...I guess you're all your own support group. Who brings the acid to the meetings?
:P
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Will her school credits transfer to any school are only a certain few? Did she pick the university with or without the programs input?
Any school, and she's picking schools without program input.
I note the Wikipeia stuff got nuked. "consider the source" obviously applies.
Our daughter is at the top level of the program and has never been to Copper - that sorta blows that bullshit out of the water.
The whole mind-control "Tactics" post was a total laugher.
I love watching the clueless continue to babble about nothing.
In the meantime, our daughter has a summer job for two weeks when she comes home, another mentoring kids in the fall, a learner's permit, a near 4.0, high SAT's (yes, taken at the Ranch), a pile of college acceptance letters from known schools, a new horse (the only downside expense-wise when she comes home!) and most importantly, her life back. She LOOKS like a teenager again, with a healthy glow and sparkle in her eyes.
We've spent many, many days and evenings at the Ranch, as have other parents...and we all get a giggle out of the posts here. Unfortunately, someone whose child needs help will read them and be persuaded that AR is a bad place. That's sad, because you folks have not a single friggin' clue what you are talking about. Sorry - you're all simply wrong. Spread all the propaganda you want - the conditions, control measures and manipulation you spout off about do not exist.
But at least you all have a hobby...I guess you're all your own support group. Who brings the acid to the meetings?
:P
Well said, you speak for the majority.
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They are going to discuss it at the wikipedia convention in Taipai, but it seems that the American version is not going to have anything about AR on it, but all other wikipedia-versions are going to have a translated version of this page on them:
http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/AspenRanch.htm (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/AspenRanch.htm)
It seems that it have something to do with differences in culture. Most other countries have ratified the UN Convention of a child, which does not allow parents to lock up a child in a private prison without approval and supervision of the authorities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention ... of_a_Child (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_a_Child)
En.Wikipedia seems to contain a narrow american view on things. Perhaps it should be renamed to us.wikipedia. And as it is common in your country, this kind of "school" is an absolutely no-speak item. So no page on Aspen Ranch are to be found on en.wikipedia.
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Covergaard wrote:
And as it is common in your country, this kind of "school" is an absolutely no-speak item.
Actually, my experience has shown it to be just the opposite. Residential programs and wilderness are spoken of openly here in the US on talk shows, parent magazines and a series called “Brat Camp” was aired in the US over recent years. It takes awhile for information to get out to the public sometimes.
So no page on Aspen Ranch are to be found on en.wikipedia.
Look halfway down under “Residential Programs”, you might have missed it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Education_Group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Education_Group)
Here is a direct link to the Aspen Ranch home page
http://www.aspenranch.com/ (http://www.aspenranch.com/)
or just google the phrase “Aspen Ranch”
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Aspen is actually running a brain-washing facility for the Religous Right. True story. Seriously though, has anyone noticed if they(Aspen) pay someone to make comments on this site on the weekend or is it strictly 9-5 M-F? You can notice that they are now using Guest profiles more frequently, mixing it up a bit. This site has obviously got their attention. "The Who" is most likely working in Cerritos California puling down 60 g's a year just to respond to crap said on this site. I applaud the rebels who post here for their small victory over a corporate giant.
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Aspen is actually running a brain-washing facility for the Religous Right. True story. Seriously though, has anyone noticed if they(Aspen) pay someone to make comments on this site on the weekend or is it strictly 9-5 M-F? You can notice that they are now using Guest profiles more frequently, mixing it up a bit. This site has obviously got their attention. "The Who" is most likely working in Cerritos California puling down 60 g's a year just to respond to crap said on this site. I applaud the rebels who post here for their small victory over a corporate giant.
:wink:
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Aspen is actually running a brain-washing facility for the Religous Right. True story.
Oh lordy - better go put on your tin-foil hat!
I suppose you also woke up naked in the desert next to a burnt circle of sand...with a sore ass.
"True story"? Prove it, dickwad. This morning I feel like being pissed at you jerkoffs. AR has saved our daughter's life, and is doing great work for many others. There's no brainwashing, no religious indoctrination at all (in fact, periodically our daughter's therapist offers to take her "team" to church...but only if they WANT to go, and to a fairly casual non-Mormon church.
They have patients/students that range from "troubled teens" with arrest records, kids with drug problems, girls who have become "cutters", kids who have suffered mental breakdowns due to trauma - I have not met one parent (and we go to "parent week" activities quarterly and make other, sometimes unnanounced, visits at other times) who just wanted to lock-up their child - and in most cases the parent/child relationship improves dramatically after the child has been there a few months.
Yes, there are rules; yes, there is security (a kid can't just run off); yes, there can be "level drops", but only for serious rulebreaking.
We also know a couple program "graduates" who we keep in contact with, and the parents have had nothing but praise for AR. There ARE things we think could be improved - in school, science labs are not available except through specialized mail-order kits, or through the local college (40-some miles away). It's worked out OK, but it would be better if they had something set up on-site. The food is pretty "institutional", but it's healthy stuff and they are bringing in more variety. And periodically the team therapist or another staff member will take a group of upper-level kids out to a restaurant as a treat.
You also all completely miss one of the key things about AR - the use of equine assisted psychotherapy. EAP has a well-established background and it is truly amazing how some of these "asphalt and sidewalk" kids develop wonderful relationships with the horses, which parallels well with human relationships. It's fascinating to see how the kids generally pick a horse as "theirs" (they all seem to gravitate to one primary horse) that has the same personality as themselves, and they quickly learn how it is to deal with themselves. The equine staff are our favorite people on the ranch, and a couple I'm sure will be lifelong friends.
The kids who really "get into" the horsemanship aspect are provided with weekend seminars in Salt Lake City or St. George in horse training, specialized care, etc...all at no fee to the parents. Our daughter has a certification now in training, which has already gotten her a 2-week job locally for her summer visit home, and may result in a permanent position while she goes to college.
Yeah, it's a load of brainwashing and mistreatment.
You naysayers are simply fools who have NO idea what you're talking about. A bunch of lemmings, just following the group.
FWIW we also know many local therapists who think highly of AR and also laugh at the negative notions. Several have visited the place as well.
But it's always entertaining discussing these things with people who have no clue. However, if ONE person wakes up and realizes the negative crap is a load of...well, crap...maybe another child can be helped.
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Oh lordy - better go put on your tin-foil hat!
Ha,Ha,Ha, thats funny!!
Thank you guest, it is refreshing to listen to an honest perspective and account of how these programs help kids. Your description will probably help many other parents to make the right decision for their child.
(http://http://seoblackhat.com/upimage/tinfoilhat.jpg)
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I guess that answers my question. Elliot does employ people on the weekend as well. They are deffinitely scared. Although I will say, most of these kids are better off in a behavior-modification program then with their neurotic parents who are more concerned with money and plastic surgery then raising their own children. Shame. It's just a convient way for the parents to dump their problems off in someone else's lap. If these kids do go home they regress after only a month or two, because their parents don't want to change.
Of course there is no sense in trying to address a parent on this site as they are too busy to raise their own children, let alone check an obscure website (My apologies to the one or two truly concerned parents who are doing a thorough investigation before they enroll their child in a program). This is clearly a rant site.
Which brings us to my main point, check out the anger of the previous "Guest" (The Who), they are obviously enraged that we can see through their attempt to mask their employer, right down to the city and state they work in (did I get the salary right too?). This site is going from obscure to mainstream, congratulations concerned citizens!
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most of these kids are better off in a behavior-modification program then with their neurotic parents who are more concerned with money and plastic surgery then raising their own children.
Well, our daughter is close to graduation, so I thought I'd see what other bullshit is floating around here.
That quote is another laugher. You don't need a tinfoil hat, you need a friggin' straightjacket. If you were able to attend any of the parent weeks, you would find a mix of folks...most of whom are not wealthy...who are working hard as hell to keep their kid's *alive* - and the AR program is only part of it. There's a tremendous amount of aftercare information and discussion, both with parents and entire families.
I've encountered I think one slightly neurotic mom, but she was the exception rather than the rule. There have been no upper-crust "Lance and Buffy" types at all, just normal parents struggling with kids who have a variety of issues. NOT ONE *wanted* their child to be there - for most it seems to be the last resort; personally, I wish it wasn't and people could get their kids in much sooner. I wish we had.
But to me, the important thing is the place has...without a single doubt...saved our daughter's life. TO sum up some of the other things: She's graduating from high school a year EARLY, and home-district had her do testing (plus she had a great SAT score) so it's no fluke, and she gets a DUAL diploma from Utah and our home state. She's happy, healthy - recently had another home visit that was totally without issues. She has direction in her life, and although she will have on going therapy for some time due to the trauma that triggered her particular problems, she understands it and is dealing with it from a healthy perspective.
A side benefit is she already has a part-time job (while she goes to college) working for a horse trainer...which is good, because the downside (if you can call it that) is she/we are in the process of buying a horse! But, since she's no looking into equine-related veterinary medicine, that's really a benefit.
I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.
In fact, I wonder how many of the crap-flingers are even parents?
Regardless, I'll try to remember to come back in a few months and post an update on how she's doing. If things go awry, I am not afraid to post that either. However, based on what I've seen, on what her local therapist has said, what the local school people plus some adult mentors have observed I don't anticipate anything other than normal 17-year old daughter stuff.
I sincerely hope these posts help someone and help cut through the lies and unqualified judgments.
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:wstupid:
Let's just hope your kid comes home safe. You might try the therepy they have there yourself, since your so gung ho about it!
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I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.
In fact, I wonder how many of the crap-flingers are even parents?
We think we understand the program and yes I am a proud parent. Just last Saturday our police was fighting 8-12 years drunks on the beach and my daughter was NOT among them. (We have no lower limit for alcohol consumption in Denmark because we want to lower the number of people killed due to DUI. We are now talking of 73 deaths during the entire year of 2006 out of 5,000,000 people, so we are close.)
But could you not try to get your daughter to demonstrate PCS on you and exactly how long does they wrist the arm.?
I have found this video-clip (http://http://www.heal-online.org/WristLock.mpg) from another Aspen facility (AAA). Please listen to the sound from the narrator.
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most of these kids are better off in a behavior-modification program then with their neurotic parents who are more concerned with money and plastic surgery then raising their own children.
Well, our daughter is close to graduation, so I thought I'd see what other bullshit is floating around here.
That quote is another laugher. You don't need a tinfoil hat, you need a friggin' straightjacket. If you were able to attend any of the parent weeks, you would find a mix of folks...most of whom are not wealthy...who are working hard as hell to keep their kid's *alive* - and the AR program is only part of it. There's a tremendous amount of aftercare information and discussion, both with parents and entire families.
I've encountered I think one slightly neurotic mom, but she was the exception rather than the rule. There have been no upper-crust "Lance and Buffy" types at all, just normal parents struggling with kids who have a variety of issues. NOT ONE *wanted* their child to be there - for most it seems to be the last resort; personally, I wish it wasn't and people could get their kids in much sooner. I wish we had.
But to me, the important thing is the place has...without a single doubt...saved our daughter's life. TO sum up some of the other things: She's graduating from high school a year EARLY, and home-district had her do testing (plus she had a great SAT score) so it's no fluke, and she gets a DUAL diploma from Utah and our home state. She's happy, healthy - recently had another home visit that was totally without issues. She has direction in her life, and although she will have on going therapy for some time due to the trauma that triggered her particular problems, she understands it and is dealing with it from a healthy perspective.
A side benefit is she already has a part-time job (while she goes to college) working for a horse trainer...which is good, because the downside (if you can call it that) is she/we are in the process of buying a horse! But, since she's no looking into equine-related veterinary medicine, that's really a benefit.
I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.
In fact, I wonder how many of the crap-flingers are even parents?
Regardless, I'll try to remember to come back in a few months and post an update on how she's doing. If things go awry, I am not afraid to post that either. However, based on what I've seen, on what her local therapist has said, what the local school people plus some adult mentors have observed I don't anticipate anything other than normal 17-year old daughter stuff.
I sincerely hope these posts help someone and help cut through the lies and unqualified judgments.
Your experience is in line with most parents and kids who finished (as well as my own). Good luck and congrats to yourself and child.
The problem with the TV shows about these places is many of the kids want to be the ones acting out the most so they can get more air time and attention from the crew. So it is difficult to decifer what is real and what isnt.
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(http://http://www.robotsandwrestlers.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/hey_kool_aid4.jpg)
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I find the idea that parents get excited about their kid finisihng school a year earlier when they also have an apparently long history of wild behaviour oxmoronic.
I am sure any kid could shave a yr or 2 off school if they attended a place without any holidays whatsoever. it does not mean a higher standard of education just a more condensed one.
But why would you push for your "out of control" kid going to university a year early. Afterall first year is often spent in the tavern or on the university lawn amassing vital non academic life experiences :wink:
If a kids debauched past is such a concern then perhaps waiting a yr or 2 for college is a good thing
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I brought my son home because, as I stated in the first place, I was not really happy about Aspen Ranch. My son was not being tortured there, but he was in a behavior modification type program that was a one size fits all. I thought I was spending all this money sending my son to the "best Doctors and Therapist" and he would get specialized one on one help, and it was a bunch of bull. Aspen is just a money making cattle ranch. His therapist was trying and there were some people trying but overall, it was like just rope in a bunch of rich drug doing kids and will take your parents money and we will keep you here and teach you a lesson and you won't ever want to do drugs again because you won't want to come back here. My son didn't do drugs, he really was not a bad kid, the whole pissing on the picture was just a prank, he had some anger issues, but he was diagnosed with high functioning autism, anxiety disorder, OCD not ODD that is what all the kids are labeled at Aspen. He also has a verbal I.Q. of over 140 that was being wasted at a place that does not really care about academics. Anyway I am rambling.
The reason it took this long to write back is because I have been very busy I have 3 other kids,
and just keeping my son on the right meds and at his therapist appointments and he is studing for the ACT's etc. I just have not had time to let everyone know that I pulled him out.
I will say that I spent from 9 a.m. till 9 p.m. sometimes wondering around every part of Aspen Ranch ,came there without letting anyone know and they were fine with it. So if you have a really out of control situation it is not bad for a few months, I have to admit just the shock of him being away and seeing all that I think gave him alot to think about. I have asked him if he felt violated or abused in any way and he did not.
Anyway, if you have any more questions I will be happy to answer. Sorry about the punctuation, I am to tired for paragraphs!
KK:)
bump
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"our society also buys parents off their normal work for a period so they can be at school watching over their child"
That's a wonderful system. However, it's completely irrelevant here as we do not have that option, unfortunately.
Yes you do have a choice, it may not be easy or convenient but it's for your child and well worth the sacrifices...
I can speak pretty well for my child - I just spent another 5 days with her, mostly off-campus on a "Utah visit". She could say whatever she wanted, go shopping, go to movies...and her main topic was how she wants to get back home, but would never have been able to without the Ranch.
I'm not surprised by your daughters reaction, even in the most abusive programs you will find this reaction common among kids still in the program or a few years out of the program.
Despite what you may believe your daughter was not free to tell you whatever she wanted to. Here's why - She would face accusations of manipulation if she was to say anything bad about the program. No doubt you would have talked to staff about any accusation and they would deny it, tell you not to believe her manipulations, and she would be dropped a few levels lengthening her stay.
- The nature of the program is one of thought reform. It uses many of the tactic types of thought reform as defined by Margaret Singer (http://http://www.freeminds.org/psych/thought_reform.htm):[li] TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: A. Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine activities; C. Decreased sleep; D. Nutritional restriction.
- TACTIC 2[/b]. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. (In the forerunner to coercive persuasion, brainwashing, this was rather easy to achieve through simple imprisonment.)
- TACTIC 3[/b]. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.
- TACTIC 4[/b]. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality.
- TACTIC 5[/b]. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness.
- TACTIC 6[/b]. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.
- TACTIC 7[/b]. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).
[/li]
[li]Aspen has most likely had enough time to break her, as such she will no longer question the program in a way that could bring any consequences upon herself. This is called survival mode and is present in victims of different types of abuse.
To make it she must fake it and fake it long enough with the right reinforcement:- parental approval,
- allowed to be part of the group,
- rewards for accepting the group's identity and beliefs,
- etc
[/li][/list]
she will believe it with, and with great fervor.
This is obviously demonstrated in what your daughter said about returning home but only because of the ranch
- It's not uncommon for victims to become attached to their abuser. It's called Stockholm's syndrome (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) and is a documented fact. Even though you had time alone with her Stockholm's syndrome (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) would have prevented her from seeking escape.
We spent a couple hours on the computer looking at horse boarding, since she's planning on buying a horse when she leaves (one of the ranch equine therapists came in for several hours on an off-day just so we could ride with our daughter).
She's in an accelerated high school program that's (check it out yourself) highly rated by public and private colleges, ranking with high-dollar prep schools...and is again pulling almost straight-A's. One residential staff person - one of the supposedly "abusive" people if you look at other sites - asked us to come by her new job to say hi - and she wants to come to our daughter's graduation. Another staff person brought some puppies to the team for them to play with for a couple days; another bought a Christmas tree and decorations, and took the whole team out for dinner and to a non-denominational church Christmas eve.
She is apart of the group now, a trusty, who is now afforded privileges not offered to those outside of the group. This is a two fold thing however, a velvet glove over an iron fist. These privileges reward here for accepting the group think and philosophy, however it also increases her dependence on the group. If she's not lock step with the program those privileges will turn into antagonistic weapons of manipulation to get her back in line with the group's think.
Sure, there are a couple staff people she doesn't like, but that's life. All her teachers she adores, and she's getting great reports. Her home district did some testing and found her to be far above her "normal" level - about a grade ahead when she SHOULD be a grade behind because of her trauma and troubles.
Will her school credits transfer to any school are only a certain few? Did she pick the university with or without the programs input? I believe that your daughter SHOULD NOT have been held back, having "trauma" does not make one stupid. Not knowing the AEG's schools I'm not sure if they go the self teaching route like most programs do. If you have a link to some info please provide it.
So play with your BS meters and other ignorant crap all you want - it's not a prison, it's not abusive, and it's saved at least ONE life for sure. We have parents with problems coming to us, and we recommend they check it out along with other programs, as the "ranch" might not be a good fit for some kids. But we do not hesitate to recommend it, or even to talk to the other kids about it and answer question straight-up.
We are lucky to have her there under a state/school district sponsored program...we could never afford it out-of-pocket, but if I HAD to, I'd find a way...and when she graduates, I willl find some way to support it afterwards - you have NO idea what it means to a parent when you watch your daughter go from a broken shell to a growing teenager. She has a long way to go yet, but knows it and is handling it fine. The telling comment to me was "I like it here - I don't want to LIVE here forever - but I like it." That and the fact she's alive.
Every program parent says this, even Straight,INC parents. I suggest you read the postings of survivors in regards to their parents, I believe you will find it to be quiet reflective.. Nothing short of a video of the abuse will ever make you believe differently, so oh well.....
It certainly would be nice if we had programs as they apparently do in some countries where parents can take time off and work with their kids in need, but I'm not sure that's enough in the therapeutic sense - parents are NOT therapists...we sure aren't.
Neither is the the staff that runs most of the therapy sessions
Anyway, we're thankful and so is she. And in all the "meters" and sarcastic "donut" lines, I haven't read a single fact...or educated, knowledgable opinion...that is counter to anything I've related.
Really?
So if you have hard facts...or even an intelligent opinion...I'd be willing to listen and discuss it. But the bullshit meters and other 8th-grade crap just makes the naysayers look exceedingly incapable of expressing anything intelligent. You think anyone with an ounce of brains forms an opinion about a program on the basis of a graphic swiped from another site?
Tell me what made you pick AEG as the program to send your child too? website, ed-con, parent... Certainly not brains or expert opinions (http://http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=357&Itemid=35) regarding programs
I'm not saying to take everything I say as gospel...but I AM giving some examples and opinions with actual content.
And I wonder how many of the goofballs are even parents? Or kids who have been through a program?
My guess? Zero.
Don't be silly this is fornits :lol:
I respect the European poster who lives with a different system.. That at least has some basis in reality. But the hit-and-run trolls have said nothing at all so far.
:roll:
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Aspen is actually running a brain-washing facility for the Religous Right. True story. Seriously though, has anyone noticed if they(Aspen) pay someone to make comments on this site on the weekend or is it strictly 9-5 M-F? You can notice that they are now using Guest profiles more frequently, mixing it up a bit. This site has obviously got their attention. "The Who" is most likely working in Cerritos California puling down 60 g's a year just to respond to crap said on this site. I applaud the rebels who post here for their small victory over a corporate giant.
Money flows for, against gay-marriage measure
By Josh Richman
Friday, July 25th, 2008 at 1:31 pm in Elections, General, same-sex marriage.
Big money kept changing hands this week for and against Proposition 8, the proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.
Piedmont philanthropist and Obama fundraiser M. Quinn Delaney on Tuesday gave $50,000 to the campaign opposing the measure — she runs the Oakland-based, anti-racism Akonadi Foundation; is vice-chairwoman of the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California; is on the Tides Foundation’s board of directors; and is married to real estate investor/developer Wayne Jordan.
Focus on the Family — the Colorado Springs, Colo.-based evangelical Christian organization led by James Dobson — on Tuesday gave $20,000 to the campaign for Prop. 8.
Garden Grove-based Container Supply Co. on Tuesday contributed $25,000 to the campaign for Prop. 8; the company’s president is former state Senate Republican Leader Rob Hurtt.
FamilyIQ.com founder Mark Hobbins — formerly, a cofounder of the Aspen Education Group, which operates boarding schools and boot camps for troubled teens — of Trabuco Canyone on Wednesday gave $25,000 to the campaign for Prop. 8.
Those opposing the amendment on Tuesday moved $1.25 million from the Equality California campaign fund into the “No on 8 — Equality for All” campaign fund.
And on Monday, as previously noted here, the Tupelo, Miss.-based American Family Association gave $500,000 to the campaign for Prop. 8, the biggest single contribution to the campaign to date.
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Friday, July 25, 2008
Past: Aspen Ranch
So I have [obviously] been thinking about AR a lot recently. Not sure why... just one of those "phases" all of us "alumni" go through. The good times. And the stupid shit. Speaking of stupid shit, what was the thing called when we were "locked down" in our cottage because of something or someone? I remember my first stay at the ranch, team 5 cottage, there was one of these. I think it was right after I got finished with round-up. Which, by the way, was TOTALLY different then my 2nd stay. Round-up used to be... totally secluded! They used to have us sleep in the basement & have absolutely no contact with our team, or anyone for that matter. Also, I remember not having the privilege of using real shampoo & conditioner. The was received once you got out of round-up. Until then, you had to use one of those commercial soap dispensers filled with a multi-tasking body cleanser. Ha ha ha!! Good old Sysco provided us with everything. Including some really disgusting looking food; you would only know this if you worked in the kitchen via Greenhorn privileges.
OKAY-- so for those of you who have never been to AR, or who have never heard of it, let me explain a little bit about the program.
First & for-most, AR is for the bad little kids (under 18) who their parents don't know what to do with them. Drugs, depression, violence, etc etc. Aspen Ranch is a "lock-down" boarding school in the middle of NOWHERE Utah. Loa, Utah, to be exact. Loa is about, a three or four hour drive (if I remember correctly) from Salt Lake City. Down many twisted roads, through & up & down mountains, passed mining & drilling... around NOTHING. Seriously. I suppose this was a good decision on their part considering it makes it very difficult to run away from this program. During my second stay, though, there were two boys in round-up who ran away & ended up riding w/a truck drive to Cali where they were eventually arrested & locked-up in Juvy [so we heard].
Aspen Ranch is in fact a Ranch... a wana-be campus type layout. You turn off of the "main highway" onto a long dusty "driveway." The driveway splits, at a point, and you can either go towards the horses & barn or to the rest of the "campus." Continuing up towards the main part, you pass the school on your left [which is a TOTAL joke... nothing actually gets accomplished here other than the girls sneaking off to have sex in the bathroom with the guys]. Next is the admin building where the president, therapists, etc have their offices. Then one of the guys cottages is next. A little bit further up are the three girls' cottages, on the right... teams 4, 5 & 6. On the left, up quite the dirt "mountain," I may add, is the main house. Continuing up the driveway to get to the main house, there is the boys "dorms" which houses the other three boys' teams in a dorm-style housing. There are typically no more than 12 guys/girls to a team at one time.
To break it down for you, here is the program description per [http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/AspenRanch.htm]:
Aspen Ranch is a behavior modification facility located near Loa, Utah.
It was established in 1995 and is a part of Aspen Education Group.
The detainees are a mix of children placed and paid for by their parents and detainees court-ordered to serve their time at the facility.
An average stay takes 11 months, but parents are advised not to talk about the length of the stay to prevent the child from knowing his or her release date.
Program description
Most of the detainees arrive by use of a Youth transport firm, but some arrive with their parents.
Level system
The ranch use a system, which consist of six levels. New detainees arrive at the lowest level known as round-up or orientation phase. The detainees has to remain silent in a basement or do manual labor during the demanded stay (2 weeks) on that phase.
They can apply for the next level at the end of the 2 weeks. If they are allowed to go on the next level, they leave the basement and goes on to live with group at the dormitory.
Higher levels has names like: Mustang, Maverick, Greenhorn, Rider and wrangler.
Communication between child and parents are letters-only at the lower levels. However, as the child moves up through the levels monitored phone-calls will be allowed. In the contract between parents and the facility, the parents give permission to open all mails going from and to the child, cut off phone calls and strip-search the child.
Detainees has to stay at given level for at unknown length of time. The reason given for that is that the detainee has to demonstrate that the student is really ready for the challenges of that level.
So going back to the "locked down" procedure/event when something happened... I feel like there was one during my second stay also, but I do not remember what that one was regarding. The first stay was because during our Sunday morning deep-clean, the part where we had to lay out EVERYTHING we had & kept in our possession [clothes, underwear, letters, notebooks, etc], I do not remember what this part was called, so the staff could go through them & make sure they were A)ours and B)withing the compliance of AR's regulations. Well some stuff was confiscated from this dumb girl [who looked like Michael Jackson seriously]; she got this stuff during the infamous Parent Week. One of the things she had was gum. Which god forbid, we were not allowed to have. The staff put it somewhere off to the side in "their possession" and apparently she stole it back. But of course didn't say anything. So the staff goes to trash the configated stuff & sees that the gum is missing. Of course she flipped out yelling at everyone & no one would come forward & say they did anything. This resulted in us all having to push the furniture to the middle of the room and sit, facing the wall [like some little toddlers] until someone would confess. Hours passed. We could not eat with everyone at the main house for lunch; instead we were delivered a PB&J sandwich and a little milk carton. I think we had to be silent for like 15-20 minute intervals & after that we had a chance to confess; during the confession time we had to write answers to some "deep-thought" questions about like honesty & shit. If I remember correctly.
Ha ha ha. It's kind of funny and pathetic to look back on, but this is the shit we went through and the shit that was oh-so-serious at the time.
Speaking of food, the meals there were so bizarre; and it's funny how excited we got about the "good" food. I think probably the most popular meal there with everyone was cereal mornings. Good old knock-off name brand cereals. The brand was Western Family, which is apparently the non-name-brand in Utah. I wish I could remember the cereals' names. They were pretty damn funny.
Posted by Ms. Ambitious at 10:28 AM
http://illusionofsuccess.blogspot.com/2 ... ranch.html (http://illusionofsuccess.blogspot.com/2008/07/past-aspen-ranch.html)
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Yeah Mount Bachelor Academy only uses Western Family, too. One western family soda is allowed per week. "Saturday sodas" are currency there. Seriously, I could.'get pretty much anything that I needed done done for a 25 cent "Dr. West"
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hmm. a lot of "parents" claiming to have kids at aspen ranch writing with suspiciously similar styles. And participants popping up in the middle of the thread apropo of nothing to announce their satisfaction with the same style hmm. its almost as if aspen education group is trying to combat the sworn testimony offered here, and is directly below their add for their abusive gulag.
http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm)
SURVIVOR REPORT #1 BY ANONYMOUS
I wish I knew where to begin I will try to focus on the most disturbing experiences i can remember but, like many other survivors of such programs i find myself having a hard time remembering everything that went on.
For the first two weeks you arrive at Aspen Ranch you are placed on a level known as round-up. During this period of time you are either silent in a basement, or outside doing manual labor (changing watering pipes, building fences etc).
You can not have any contact with your parents and get to talk to a therapist maybe once or twice. One July morning when I refused to go outside, the sheets were ripped out from under me and I was carried and thrown onto a staircase where two men put my shoes on picked me up and dragged me to the field where I was to work. Afraid of any other forms of punishment,I did. Being physically threatened is a major way they get you to follow the rules.
Every week you got to speak with your parents, on speakerphone, with your therapist present for 20 minutes. If you ever tried to tell your parents about the torture you were suffering through the conversation would be immediately terminated. All letters were read before sent, all incoming mail opened read and inspected before given to you. The only contact allowed was to your parents and had to be positive.
On top of whatever work project your team was assigned to each day you also had to participate in an hour long physical, no matter how physically drained you were. People would sometimes pass out or break down begging to stop but, for the most part the physical went on for as long as the supervisor saw fit. The psychological abuse was never ending, if you were suspected of doing something wrong you would be forced to go into the basement and sit at a desk until you admitted what you were accused of. We were often threatened to be sent to an out of country program where we were told there was no child labor laws, I still don't know if this program exists but, the mere threat was enough to keep most of us "in line".
I could go on forever with stories of this sort. My main point though, please do not put your child through
this, two years later I am still suffering from the lies I was fed.
Please protect my identity. I know this is not a complete story but I think it gets the point across.
SURVIVOR REPORT #2 BY ANON
These are all factual events that take place at aspen ranch everyday, these are events that have taken place and will continue to unless someone takes action soon. Everything in my statement is true and I give HEAL permission to use my
statement. I am a survivor of the aspen ranch school, located in Loa, UT. A Therapeutic Boarding school/ rehabilitation center.....my ass. Aspen Ranch uses a physical restraint system called PCS (positive control system) which is actually FAR from positive. PCS includes a barrage or various pressure points and bent wrists, locked joints, and strained tendons. Once put into PCS submission you are held here by a minimum of 3 staff, you're pulse regularly checked to indicate your level of anger. You are normally on the ground (also known as "Carpet Time" for a norm of 45 minutes to an hour) They use any method of getting you down, whether it be calmly asking you to cooperate with them or tackling you through a crowd of people onto concrete (which seems to be a staff favorite). I have seen many of my friends at Aspen Ranch end up with broken
wrists from PCS. I have myself lost the feeling in the tips of my fingers for days as a result of being held in PCS submission for over 3 hours. Once you are PCSed (on top of everything) you have to go to R&R (redirection and recovery)
more commonly known as the room where you where red sweat pants and sweat shirts even in the dead of the summer (in the Desert) to no avail. The "on campus" psychiatrist's prescribe you medications based on staff behavioral reports, without even consulting you to see how you feel about putting a new foreign substance into your body or checking past medical
records (could be detrimental to your well being). For example I myself was a bit ADHD according to staff, and the staff apparently thought that they were doing me a favor recommending that i be prescribed to ritalin (methylphindate), which
actually led to a number of seizures...to bad they didn't bother to check to see if my family had a history of amphetamine
related seizures. thanks aspen ranch!!
-Anon
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This post was edited to add a link back to the original poster, KJ
I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.
Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.
And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.
Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them!
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=223240#p223240)
...
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On 2005-12-05 11:17:00, kk wrote:
"Hi, My son is currently at Aspen Ranch. Ask me whatever you want. Ijust was there. I think the Therapists are great and the Teachers are great too.
Yes, it is corporate run and the bottom line is money and I don't like that aspect of it, but the people there do care. The things I don't like is that the babysitters, that's what I call them, mean well, but they are just not smart enough to understand the rules and make decsions that affect are children and these are the people who are deciding what level and what punishments should be handed out. Thank goodness most of our kids are very smart and most of the parents are very concerned and at any given time there is a parent on the property. I also don't like the fact that for all the money that we are paying the place is pretty broken done. there great selling point the ropes course has been inoperable for 7 months. The selling point that the kids can excellorate their schooling is void because they do not have access to computers or the library on the weekend.
I personally spoke to Matt Alexander about this situation and he pormised me this would change. I also feel that they slap every kid with the lable of ODD. My kid I feel did not have ODD and after I insisted on further testing which of course I had to pay 1300 extra for they now say that he may have an Autistic spectrum disorder and they may not be able to help him, only after 5 months of him being there. All these things are aggravating but I do believe that the people there are trying to help. The food is pretty crappy too, but I guess if you are selling drugs and go to jail it would be worse. By the way my son was never doing drugs or in any trouble with the law he was very depressed and his grades took a nose dive and we thought he was suicidal. He is doing better and he actually wants to remain in a boarding school just in one that is not as strict with levels. After reading all of this I'm not comfportable with any boarding school and am hoping to convince him to come home, or just finish his Junior year at the Ranch and as soon as he is done we will pull him. any questions? Feel free!"
Wow. I read this, and by the end I was thinking "There must be some mistake. The story didn't end with 'and because of all of the red flags of abuse/neglect/fraud I listed before, I've taken my son home and am suing Aspen for fraud and breech of contract.'" Are you nuts or what?
:jawdrop: Program parent admits to false diagnosis by Aspen (no surprise there) and fights back for her kid by...accepting a promise from Aspen employee to change that in the future (???) You people are fucking suckers.
Aspen is a fraud, as this parent readily admits.
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:jawdrop: Program parent admits to false diagnosis by Aspen (no surprise there) and fights back for her kid by...accepting a promise from Aspen employee to change that in the future (???) You people are fucking suckers.
QFT QFT QFT
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"AR has saved our daughter's life, and is doing great work for many others. There's no brainwashing, no religious indoctrination at all (in fact, periodically our daughter's therapist offers to take her "team" to church...but only if they WANT to go, and to a fairly casual non-Mormon church.
They have patients/students that range from "troubled teens" with arrest records, kids with drug problems, girls who have become "cutters", kids who have suffered mental breakdowns due to trauma - I have not met one parent (and we go to "parent week" activities quarterly and make other, sometimes unnanounced, visits at other times) who just wanted to lock-up their child - and in most cases the parent/child relationship improves dramatically after the child has been there a few months.
Yes, there are rules; yes, there is security (a kid can't just run off); yes, there can be "level drops", but only for serious rulebreaking.
We also know a couple program "graduates" who we keep in contact with, and the parents have had nothing but praise for AR. There ARE things we think could be improved - in school, science labs are not available except through specialized mail-order kits, or through the local college (40-some miles away). It's worked out OK, but it would be better if they had something set up on-site. The food is pretty "institutional", but it's healthy stuff and they are bringing in more variety. And periodically the team therapist or another staff member will take a group of upper-level kids out to a restaurant as a treat.
You also all completely miss one of the key things about AR - the use of equine assisted psychotherapy. EAP has a well-established background and it is truly amazing how some of these "asphalt and sidewalk" kids develop wonderful relationships with the horses, which parallels well with human relationships. It's fascinating to see how the kids generally pick a horse as "theirs" (they all seem to gravitate to one primary horse) that has the same personality as themselves, and they quickly learn how it is to deal with themselves. The equine staff are our favorite people on the ranch, and a couple I'm sure will be lifelong friends.
The kids who really "get into" the horsemanship aspect are provided with weekend seminars in Salt Lake City or St. George in horse training, specialized care, etc...all at no fee to the parents. Our daughter has a certification now in training, which has already gotten her a 2-week job locally for her summer visit home, and may result in a permanent position while she goes to college.
Yeah, it's a load of brainwashing and mistreatment.
You naysayers are simply fools who have NO idea what you're talking about. A bunch of lemmings, just following the group.
FWIW we also know many local therapists who think highly of AR and also laugh at the negative notions. Several have visited the place as well.
But it's always entertaining discussing these things with people who have no clue. However, if ONE person wakes up and realizes the negative crap is a load of...well, crap...maybe another child can be helped."
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hmm. a lot of "parents" claiming to have kids at aspen ranch writing with suspiciously similar styles. And participants popping up in the middle of the thread apropo of nothing to announce their satisfaction with the exact same style hmm. its almost as if aspen education group is trying to combat the sworn testimony offered here, and is directly below their add for their abusive gulag.
http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm)
SWORN TESTIMONY:
SURVIVOR REPORT #1 BY ANONYMOUS
I wish I knew where to begin I will try to focus on the most disturbing experiences i can remember but, like many other survivors of such programs i find myself having a hard time remembering everything that went on.
For the first two weeks you arrive at Aspen Ranch you are placed on a level known as round-up. During this period of time you are either silent in a basement, or outside doing manual labor (changing watering pipes, building fences etc).
You can not have any contact with your parents and get to talk to a therapist maybe once or twice. One July morning when I refused to go outside, the sheets were ripped out from under me and I was carried and thrown onto a staircase where two men put my shoes on picked me up and dragged me to the field where I was to work. Afraid of any other forms of punishment,I did. Being physically threatened is a major way they get you to follow the rules.
Every week you got to speak with your parents, on speakerphone, with your therapist present for 20 minutes. If you ever tried to tell your parents about the torture you were suffering through the conversation would be immediately terminated. All letters were read before sent, all incoming mail opened read and inspected before given to you. The only contact allowed was to your parents and had to be positive.
On top of whatever work project your team was assigned to each day you also had to participate in an hour long physical, no matter how physically drained you were. People would sometimes pass out or break down begging to stop but, for the most part the physical went on for as long as the supervisor saw fit. The psychological abuse was never ending, if you were suspected of doing something wrong you would be forced to go into the basement and sit at a desk until you admitted what you were accused of. We were often threatened to be sent to an out of country program where we were told there was no child labor laws, I still don't know if this program exists but, the mere threat was enough to keep most of us "in line".
I could go on forever with stories of this sort. My main point though, please do not put your child through
this, two years later I am still suffering from the lies I was fed.
Please protect my identity. I know this is not a complete story but I think it gets the point across.
SURVIVOR REPORT #2 BY ANON
These are all factual events that take place at aspen ranch everyday, these are events that have taken place and will continue to unless someone takes action soon. Everything in my statement is true and I give HEAL permission to use my
statement. I am a survivor of the aspen ranch school, located in Loa, UT. A Therapeutic Boarding school/ rehabilitation center.....my ass. Aspen Ranch uses a physical restraint system called PCS (positive control system) which is actually FAR from positive. PCS includes a barrage or various pressure points and bent wrists, locked joints, and strained tendons. Once put into PCS submission you are held here by a minimum of 3 staff, you're pulse regularly checked to indicate your level of anger. You are normally on the ground (also known as "Carpet Time" for a norm of 45 minutes to an hour) They use any method of getting you down, whether it be calmly asking you to cooperate with them or tackling you through a crowd of people onto concrete (which seems to be a staff favorite). I have seen many of my friends at Aspen Ranch end up with broken
wrists from PCS. I have myself lost the feeling in the tips of my fingers for days as a result of being held in PCS submission for over 3 hours. Once you are PCSed (on top of everything) you have to go to R&R (redirection and recovery)
more commonly known as the room where you where red sweat pants and sweat shirts even in the dead of the summer (in the Desert) to no avail. The "on campus" psychiatrist's prescribe you medications based on staff behavioral reports, without even consulting you to see how you feel about putting a new foreign substance into your body or checking past medical
records (could be detrimental to your well being). For example I myself was a bit ADHD according to staff, and the staff apparently thought that they were doing me a favor recommending that i be prescribed to ritalin (methylphindate), which
actually led to a number of seizures...to bad they didn't bother to check to see if my family had a history of amphetamine
related seizures. thanks aspen ranch!!
-Anon
-
hmm. a lot of "parents" claiming to have kids at aspen ranch writing with suspiciously similar styles. And participants popping up in the middle of the thread apropo of nothing to announce their satisfaction with the exact same style hmm. its almost as if aspen education group is trying to combat the sworn testimony offered here, and is directly below their add for their abusive gulag.
http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm)
SWORN TESTIMONY:
SURVIVOR REPORT #1 BY ANONYMOUS
I wish I knew where to begin I will try to focus on the most disturbing experiences i can remember but, like many other survivors of such programs i find myself having a hard time remembering everything that went on.
For the first two weeks you arrive at Aspen Ranch you are placed on a level known as round-up. During this period of time you are either silent in a basement, or outside doing manual labor (changing watering pipes, building fences etc).
You can not have any contact with your parents and get to talk to a therapist maybe once or twice. One July morning when I refused to go outside, the sheets were ripped out from under me and I was carried and thrown onto a staircase where two men put my shoes on picked me up and dragged me to the field where I was to work. Afraid of any other forms of punishment,I did. Being physically threatened is a major way they get you to follow the rules.
Every week you got to speak with your parents, on speakerphone, with your therapist present for 20 minutes. If you ever tried to tell your parents about the torture you were suffering through the conversation would be immediately terminated. All letters were read before sent, all incoming mail opened read and inspected before given to you. The only contact allowed was to your parents and had to be positive.
On top of whatever work project your team was assigned to each day you also had to participate in an hour long physical, no matter how physically drained you were. People would sometimes pass out or break down begging to stop but, for the most part the physical went on for as long as the supervisor saw fit. The psychological abuse was never ending, if you were suspected of doing something wrong you would be forced to go into the basement and sit at a desk until you admitted what you were accused of. We were often threatened to be sent to an out of country program where we were told there was no child labor laws, I still don't know if this program exists but, the mere threat was enough to keep most of us "in line".
I could go on forever with stories of this sort. My main point though, please do not put your child through
this, two years later I am still suffering from the lies I was fed.
Please protect my identity. I know this is not a complete story but I think it gets the point across.
SURVIVOR REPORT #2 BY ANON
These are all factual events that take place at aspen ranch everyday, these are events that have taken place and will continue to unless someone takes action soon. Everything in my statement is true and I give HEAL permission to use my
statement. I am a survivor of the aspen ranch school, located in Loa, UT. A Therapeutic Boarding school/ rehabilitation center.....my ass. Aspen Ranch uses a physical restraint system called PCS (positive control system) which is actually FAR from positive. PCS includes a barrage or various pressure points and bent wrists, locked joints, and strained tendons. Once put into PCS submission you are held here by a minimum of 3 staff, you're pulse regularly checked to indicate your level of anger. You are normally on the ground (also known as "Carpet Time" for a norm of 45 minutes to an hour) They use any method of getting you down, whether it be calmly asking you to cooperate with them or tackling you through a crowd of people onto concrete (which seems to be a staff favorite). I have seen many of my friends at Aspen Ranch end up with broken
wrists from PCS. I have myself lost the feeling in the tips of my fingers for days as a result of being held in PCS submission for over 3 hours. Once you are PCSed (on top of everything) you have to go to R&R (redirection and recovery)
more commonly known as the room where you where red sweat pants and sweat shirts even in the dead of the summer (in the Desert) to no avail. The "on campus" psychiatrist's prescribe you medications based on staff behavioral reports, without even consulting you to see how you feel about putting a new foreign substance into your body or checking past medical
records (could be detrimental to your well being). For example I myself was a bit ADHD according to staff, and the staff apparently thought that they were doing me a favor recommending that i be prescribed to ritalin (methylphindate), which
actually led to a number of seizures...to bad they didn't bother to check to see if my family had a history of amphetamine
related seizures. thanks aspen ranch!!
-Anon
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the important thing is the place has...without a single doubt...saved our daughter's life. TO sum up some of the other things: She's graduating from high school a year EARLY, and home-district had her do testing (plus she had a great SAT score) so it's no fluke, and she gets a DUAL diploma from Utah and our home state. She's happy, healthy - recently had another home visit that was totally without issues. She has direction in her life, and although she will have on going therapy for some time due to the trauma that triggered her particular problems, she understands it and is dealing with it from a healthy perspective.
A side benefit is she already has a part-time job (while she goes to college) working for a horse trainer...which is good, because the downside (if you can call it that) is she/we are in the process of buying a horse! But, since she's no looking into equine-related veterinary medicine, that's really a benefit.
I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.
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the important thing is the place has...without a single doubt...saved our daughter's life. TO sum up some of the other things: She's graduating from high school a year EARLY, and home-district had her do testing (plus she had a great SAT score) so it's no fluke, and she gets a DUAL diploma from Utah and our home state. She's happy, healthy - recently had another home visit that was totally without issues. She has direction in her life, and although she will have on going therapy for some time due to the trauma that triggered her particular problems, she understands it and is dealing with it from a healthy perspective.
A side benefit is she already has a part-time job (while she goes to college) working for a horse trainer...which is good, because the downside (if you can call it that) is she/we are in the process of buying a horse! But, since she's no looking into equine-related veterinary medicine, that's really a benefit.
I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.
John Reuben keep your fictitious "accounts" coming. Maybe Michael, the son you murdered can get more company 6 feet under, where you put him. Aspens Education Group is sending him company at a pretty steady rate
http://www.caica.org/SAGEWALK_DEATH_SER ... _CAICA.htm (http://www.caica.org/SAGEWALK_DEATH_SERGEY_BLASHCHISHENA_CAICA.htm)
Aspen Education Program has the highest amount of on site deaths of any "program"
At about 2:30pm on Friday, August 28th, 2009, members of the Lake County Sheriff's Office, the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office, and Law Enforcement of the Bureau of Land Management responded to a report of the death of a juvenile male at a wilderness camp in northern Lake County. According to the initial information given to the Lake County Sheriff's Office, the juvenile was attending the Sage Walk Wilderness Camp. The juvenile had been received at the Sage Walk camp facility the day before, after having passed a sports physical. At the time of the incident, the youth had been participating in a hike which is a part of the behavioral program of the wilderness camp.
The initial report received by the Sheriff's Office was of a sick male, followed by information that CPR was in progress. Air Link air ambulance was requested by Deschutes County Sheriff out of Bend. CPR continued for approximately 45 minutes until the air ambulance arrived. Subsequently, the 16 year old male from Portland was declared dead at the scene.
Due to the remoteness and inaccessibility of the northern part of Lake County, Deschutes County Sheriff responded and secured the scene until Lake County law enforcement arrived.
Deputies interviewed camp counselors and other juveniles that had been on the hike. An autopsy was performed on the youth on Sunday, August 30th.
Pending the results of the Sheriff's investigation, the Bureau of Land Management has suspended the permit for the wilderness camp to operate on BLM Land.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_m ... n_facility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_modification_facility)
""Often the practice of behavior modification in facilities comes into question (see recent interest in Judge Rotenberg Educational Center, Aspen Education Group and the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools). Often these types of restrictive issues are discussed as part of ethical and legal standards (see Professional practice of behavior analysis).""
Aspen has a better PR firm, but is the same ball of abuse, torture, imprisonment, brainwashing.
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the important thing is the place has...without a single doubt...saved our daughter's life. TO sum up some of the other things: She's graduating from high school a year EARLY, and home-district had her do testing (plus she had a great SAT score) so it's no fluke, and she gets a DUAL diploma from Utah and our home state. She's happy, healthy - recently had another home visit that was totally without issues. She has direction in her life, and although she will have on going therapy for some time due to the trauma that triggered her particular problems, she understands it and is dealing with it from a healthy perspective.
A side benefit is she already has a part-time job (while she goes to college) working for a horse trainer...which is good, because the downside (if you can call it that) is she/we are in the process of buying a horse! But, since she's no looking into equine-related veterinary medicine, that's really a benefit.
I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.
John Reuben keep your fictitious "accounts" coming.
So fornits has finally reached the point where parents and survivors stories which are not negative are just tossed aside as fictitious. "Lets tighten things up and only allow the battered few thru the door!!!" Ha,Ha,Ha Finally got you to admit it...... its a good first step.
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So fornits has finally reached the point where parents and survivors stories which are not negative are just tossed aside as fictitious. "Lets tighten things up and only allow the battered few thru the door!!!" Ha,Ha,Ha Finally got you to admit it...... its a good first step.
It is a good first step that you're finally able to acknowledge those who were battered. The next would be for you to comprehend that that number is far more than a few.
Helpful to that end would be you’re considering the various kinds of injuries caused to children in programs.
Not all are as physical violence. Assaults like rape and battery do happen in programs, as well as imposed stress positions, prolonged physically exhausting exertions (death marches for some) and inadequate or even no proper medical care.
In addition to these injurious violations of children the damages accrued from dehumanizing humiliations and infliction of emotional abuse and destructive thought reform tactics are very real, very pervasive in the TTI, and completely unnecessary to extending guidance to children.
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It is a good first step that you're finally able to acknowledge those who were battered. The next would be for you to comprehend that that number is far more than a few.
Helpful to that end would be you’re considering the various kinds of injuries caused to children in programs.
Not all are as physical violence. Assaults like rape and battery do happen in programs, as well as imposed stress positions, prolonged physically exhausting exertions (death marches for some) and inadequate or even no proper medical care.
In addition to these injurious violations of children the damages accrued from dehumanizing humiliations and infliction of emotional abuse and destructive thought reform tactics are very real, very pervasive in the TTI, and completely unnecessary to extending guidance to children.
99% of those accounts are fictitious. We all know that the kids are helped at these places.... kids here post to blow off steam, its healthy for them but dont rely on the accuracy of the posts.
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It is a good first step that you're finally able to acknowledge those who were battered. The next would be for you to comprehend that that number is far more than a few.
Helpful to that end would be you’re considering the various kinds of injuries caused to children in programs.
Not all are as physical violence. Assaults like rape and battery do happen in programs, as well as imposed stress positions, prolonged physically exhausting exertions (death marches for some) and inadequate or even no proper medical care.
In addition to these injurious violations of children the damages accrued from dehumanizing humiliations and infliction of emotional abuse and destructive thought reform tactics are very real, very pervasive in the TTI, and completely unnecessary to extending guidance to children.
99% of those accounts are fictitious. We all know that the kids are helped at these places.... kids here post to blow off steam, its healthy for them but dont rely on the accuracy of the posts.
You are very petty. You’re small-mindedness is apparent. By your own contradictory inflated assertions that most programs help most kids and that the accounts of abuse are made by kids blowing off steam and that they are lies, one can apprehend the limitations of your thinking.
If these kids had “benefitted” (as you put it) from the TTI, there would not be behaviors exhibited that include the compulsion to then lie about that, let alone the sheer volume of accounts and testimony offered by survivors that you are so blithely dismissive of.
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99% of those accounts are fictitious. We all know that the kids are helped at these places.... kids here post to blow off steam, its healthy for them but dont rely on the accuracy of the posts.
This coming from the local anonymous parent impersonator.
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99% of those accounts are fictitious. We all know that the kids are helped at these places.... kids here post to blow off steam, its healthy for them but dont rely on the accuracy of the posts.
This coming from the local anonymous parent impersonator.
And survivor impersonator. He can't hide his signature style
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... &start=120 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=12902&start=120)
Get a hold of the exclamation points in his “survivor account.” Its like he’s purposefully making the tone of his story so comically, exaggeratedly joyous, and the focus of the info in it so improbable, that he’s being facetious. It seems he does not wish to trick readers into believing his story is authentic, but simply to taunt survivors.
He did the same thing here:
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
Sorta like visiting a holocaust victim forum and posting he was served ice cream at Auschwitz using an exaggerated European ex-pat syntax style.
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So fornits has finally reached the point where parents and survivors stories which are not negative are just tossed aside as fictitious. "Lets tighten things up and only allow the battered few thru the door!!!" Ha,Ha,Ha Finally got you to admit it...... its a good first step.
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Sorta like visiting a holocaust victim forum and posting he was served ice cream at Auschwitz using an exaggerated European ex-pat syntax style.
Thats funny!!! I never thought of it that way. There is another guest poster who posts alot here. He is easy to spot and tilts his hand when he uses the words "Gulag", "Torture", "Concentration Camp", "Prison", kidnapping" in his post. These are his favorite words. Anytime you see these words you know it is the same guy posting over and over again.
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I am the parent of a boy who spent a year in treatment was was out for less then 30 days before he got busted for possession at school -- ask me how good I am feeling 100K later.....
Another Aspen 'success story.' Readers should be aware that there is only one single person here advocating Aspen, the poster known as TheWho, aka John Reuben. He posts lots of ficticious 'positive survivor stories' (but since he knows nothing of the program, he gets all the details wrong) as well as ficticious 'happy parent' stories.
The story quoted above is succinct and deadly accurate in describing most people's experience with Aspen. John Reuben, the 'pro-post' troll in this thread had a similar experience with Aspen, only insted of getting arrested, his son OD'ed and died. John still relentlessly plugs Aspen, however, as he sees financial gain from enrollment and retention at Aspen (he runs an Aspen feeder program called 'Saving Teens In Crisis' that gets kickbacks for its referrals).
Just be aware that, for this troll, a few extra duckets in his pocket is more important than kids' lives being ruined by being arrested for drugs post-program (i.e. they wern't helped) or kids dying in the program or from ODs after the program like his own son. It's ALL about the money for this troll and Aspen, regardless of the consequences to children.
Just ask him to provide a clinical study that shows kids are helped by Aspen. DEMAND it from him and don't let him off the hook until he provides evidence to support his claims. You will see him squirm, wiggle, divert and eventually change the topic without ever supporting his position.
Aspen programs are not evidence based in any way, shape or form.
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Well, Bottom line is that 99% of all the kids that finish the program do extremely well. But dont take the word of someone on line in a forum someplace. Call the specific programs and schools and ask to speak with some parents who had kids complete the program. Of course they will give you names of the kids who were successful but you will be able to ask questions to someone who went thru it just like you may be and calm some of your fears.
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Well, Bottom line is that 99% of all the kids that finish the program do extremely well. But dont take the word of someone on line in a forum someplace. Call the specific programs and schools and ask to speak with some parents who had kids complete the program. Of course they will give you names of the kids who were successful but you will be able to ask questions to someone who went thru it just like you may be and calm some of your fears.
Bottom line is that you're full of shit. Don't take my word for it, just post the study that proves you right. We already know that 99% of enrolled kids don't even STAY ALIVE after the program, so how you spin that as doing 'extremely well' is beyond reason.
Show the study proving Aspen works, or just shut up. You make yourself look even dumber than you are, which is nearly impossible, but you've pulled it off, Whooter.
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We already know that 99% of enrolled kids don't even STAY ALIVE after the program
Okay, I'll bite. Show us the clinical peer reviewed study which backs up your statement.
Ouch, kind of hurts when its on the other foot doesnt it?
So while you are looking for that study the rest of us will get some real time information by talking to parents who have had kids finish the program. This allows parents to ask questions and calm their fears about TBS's.
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Aspen might have been a good place for you. I'm not saying that it is a horrible place I'm just saying it is corporate which is not a good thing for the interest of our children. My son was there and I was paying big bucks and he was not seeing a Psychiatrist regularly, he was not seeing a Therapist more then once a week for the 30 minute phone calls and with all the kids coming and going group therapy was useless it's basically hello and good bye. He did not go to drug or 12 step because that was not his problem. After visiting him and seeing that all the money in the world given to the ranch was not going to give him the proper treatment I hired someone outside of the Ranch to give him tests and that is when we found out that he had the Autistic thing going on, so we pulled him out. Now if there are kids there with neurological problems, or have suicidal tendencies or are schizophrenic etc and now they are down to only one Psychiatrist and the kids aren't getting the help they need those kids that are truly sick are really going to get damaged. That is were the shame is if they turned those kids away and only babysat the spoiled brats that would be one thing but they should not take kids with the real problems. I'm glad that they helped you and I know that they have helped some of my son's roomates that were solely there for drug issues.
I am glad this parent was able to see the light after just a couple of pages of feedback. A lot of times Fornits does come off as abusive to those who express any pro sentiments towards these schools but in this case it actually appeared as though the parent was "scared straight" by the early feedback. She saw that Aspen had problems, the big one being what this site tries to educate parents about the most; That these schools are not qualified to do the stuff they claim to be able to do. With some sarcastic and frank feedback, she was able to act on what she saw for herself. That the program was abusive. She didn't seem to accept this however, at least not openly. She still felt that a school that advertised one thing, yet provided something else, was a healthy environment. And that what was advertised was a safe, happy environment where kids will be loved, nourished, experience emotional growth and serious devotion to their individual needs... Except that was clearly not provided. I think as a mother, seeing her son appear outwardly happy was a positive thing given the earlier turmoil when the son was at home. It is unfortunate that she did not have her son properly assessed before sending him away, but ultimately I think she never gave up on her son and based on her descriptions of repeatedly visiting and being a part of his life while he attended Aspen, she did not give up on, or abandon him and I think she deserves a lot of praise for that.
This parent in her first post was saying it was a wonderful school....with an endless list of serious and glaring problems. Like her son, she knew there was a problem and was seeking help, clarification of what was readily apparent already. But ultimately it was the professional industry, the MD, who moved things forward in the proper direction. A professionally administered testing was given to the son, he was properly diagnosed, and now the parents have some idea of what to do next. Not crackpots out in the wilderness using cult methods developed in the 1950's to punish children in to proper behavior.
I just think it needs to be shouted as often as possible: THESE SCHOOLS DO NOT POSSESS THE ABILITY TO TREAT YOUR TROUBLED TEEN OR BACK ANY CLAIMS IN THEIR BROCHURES.
A guy hired to be a cook at my former school is now running his own school. Another who was hired from the nearby town to work as a handyman on campus is also now running his own school and he raped a co-worker who had also worked at my school. These people are not only lacking in qualifications to run any program or school, many have committed serious crimes in their past. But I guess that just means they are qualified because they too have been messed up...
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A guy hired to be a cook at my former school is now running his own school. Another who was hired from the nearby town to work as a handyman on campus is also now running his own school and he raped a co-worker who had also worked at my school. These people are not only lacking in qualifications to run any program or school, many have committed serious crimes in their past. But I guess that just means they are qualified because they too have been messed up...
RMA that was actually a pretty good post (and convincing). But your last paragraph here plunged you into the depths of the BS meter. If you can manage to provide a link to these two people who are running programs and links to the articles indicating they rape people we would appreciate it.
Note: Its funny how these types of post get through here so easily as credible, but when some one says something positive about a program they are hounded as a troll or thought of as being paid by the industry.
I am amazed that I am the only one here that is neutral enough to see this. If this were reversed fornits would light up like a cheap carnival.
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KK
Don't let the jag bags get you down...somtimes it's fun to engage them, all in the guise of getting to the truth. But after all they are the know it all's who haven't done anything to improve your situation. These guys are usually the pissed off program teens or usually staff from the program having fun with you.
Just so you are aware, it's doubtful if the program will help you either.
See the CALO postings and organization for concerned parents. You are not alone. I know you are looking for help, so are we. General consensus is that Parents are the problem, kids are the problem and the programs are the problem. Yea, it's sick twisted situation but someone's got the truth out there are we are looking for it. If you are too, contact me.
Personal message me and we can go from there.
CG
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:agree:
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Yes, I will provide further evidence.
The handyman was named Richard "Rowdy" Armstrong. The female former staff member he raped was named Twila Stevenson. There is a newpaper article, not too hard to find and linked all over Fornits, from the Bonners Ferry Newspaper where Rocky Mountain Academy was located. The article goes in to great detail about how he was now an escort, working with Twila before she pressed charges on him. He recently opened his own Wilderness program for troubled teens called Boundary Lines. Located naturally in Boundary County, Idaho.
The chef was named Stephen Rookie. He later went to work at Monarch School and then started his own school called Ventures in Peace. It is located across the border in Missoula, Montana.
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This is the first link I was able to find to an article about Richard Armstrong raping Twila Stevenson.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1999/12/seen01.html)
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A guy hired to be a cook at my former school is now running his own school. Another who was hired from the nearby town to work as a handyman on campus is also now running his own school and he raped a co-worker who had also worked at my school. These people are not only lacking in qualifications to run any program or school, many have committed serious crimes in their past. But I guess that just means they are qualified because they too have been messed up...
RMA that was actually a pretty good post (and convincing). But your last paragraph here plunged you into the depths of the BS meter. If you can manage to provide a link to these two people who are running programs and links to the articles indicating they rape people we would appreciate it.
Note: Its funny how these types of post get through here so easily as credible, but when some one says something positive about a program they are hounded as a troll or thought of as being paid by the industry.
I am amazed that I am the only one here that is neutral enough to see this. If this were reversed fornits would light up like a cheap carnival.
Here's an article noting Richard Armstrong's conviction for rape. Why, it even mention Lon's wife, Denise Woodbury, as the Boundary County Prosecutor involved...
—•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•—
FEDERAL JURY SIDES WITH WOMAN IN RAPE LAWSUIT (http://http://www.teenliberty.org/RMA.htm)
EMPLOYER ORDERED TO PAY $164,595; COUNTY HASN'T FILED CRIMINAL CHARGES
Section: THE HANDLE
Page: B1
Author: By Susan Drumheller Staff writer
Illustration: Color Photo
Caption: Armstrong
An "intervention specialist" who delivers kids to private behavioral schools and camps in North Idaho was ordered by a federal jury to pay a former employee $164,595 for allegedly drugging and raping her.
Twila Stephenson filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court against Richard Armstrong of Bonners Ferry, Idaho, in November 1996, accusing him of slipping drugs into her drinks, then raping her.
Armstrong runs a company called Boundary Lines, which specializes in transporting teenagers from their homes to private schools, such as the Rocky Mountain Academy.
Stephenson worked for Armstrong as a counselor from 1993 until April 1996.
The jury deliberated for four hours after a four-day trial in Coeur d'Alene.
Jury members determined that Armstrong raped Stephenson while she was unconscious, that he caused herto be unconscious and that the conduct was outrageous.
"We were surprised by the verdict," said Stanton Rines, Armstrong's attorney.
The evidence included two taped confessions, said Craig Mosman, Stephenson's attorney.
"Somebody who commits those acts ought to be in prison," Mosman said.
Boundary County officials never charged Armstrong, despite the fact that Mosman and Stephenson filed a report with police and offered to provide evidence, Mosman said.
Mosman said he never discussed the case with Boundary County Prosecutor Denise Woodbury, who was not available for comment Friday.
Stephenson has left the state and now lives and works in New Mexico, Mosman said.
She claimed she was fired after the alleged rape when she confronted Armstrong about crushing sleeping pills into her drink after she refused to have sex with him.
All content © 1999 SPOKESMAN-REVIEW.
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And here's a thread about rapist Richard Armstrong's program, Homelines:
HOMELINES - Richard Armstrong
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28340 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28340)[/list]
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You ruined my master plan. I was hoping the low life who questioned my statements would read the weaker link that made Armstrong out to be kind of innocent first... And then make some dumb comment about that. Then I would have used that link and the fact the prosecutor is Lon Woodbury's District Attorney wife to shut him down. But it is good to know there is another brilliant mind out there. But I would have had him! Him and his weak arguments.
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Wow, I have been reading along here and you guys really perk up over this stuff!! I can see why you are so eager to paint everyone as being evil. You just view the whole industry through these stories. This shit happens folks. We have public school steachers who are raping kids and then moving to other districts... but not all teachers are rapists. but with programs you cant seem to get past the evil people that have worked there..... the boogey men own you. The rest of us know we need to keep our guard up but we dont need to give up on life.
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You ruined my master plan. I was hoping the low life who questioned my statements would read the weaker link that made Armstrong out to be kind of innocent first... And then make some dumb comment about that. Then I would have used that link and the fact the prosecutor is Lon Woodbury's District Attorney wife to shut him down. But it is good to know there is another brilliant mind out there. But I would have had him! Him and his weak arguments.
I am so sorry! Ya should've PM'd me right pronto! :seg:
But the truth of the matter is, Whooter is probably well aware of that article already. He was bluffing you, hoping you couldn't furnish proof in a timely fashion ... all the while knowing it was out there.
This is just one of the many ways he attempts to discredit program-related abuse that is discussed on fornits. Too bad certain folk were watching ... vigilantly! :D
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Wow, I have been reading along here and you guys really perk up over this stuff!! I can see why you are so eager to paint everyone as being evil. You just view the whole industry through these stories. This shit happens folks. We have public school steachers who are raping kids and then moving to other districts... but not all teachers are rapists. but with programs you cant seem to get past the evil people that have worked there..... the boogey men own you. The rest of us know we need to keep our guard up but we dont need to give up on life.
HA HA! So predictable it's almost endearing! :rofl: :rofl:
After you finish roundly trouncing his BS premises, he responds with, "Whoa! Didn't mean to make you work that hard!" "Wow, you really must have spent a lot of time on that post!" "Guess I really hit a nerve there, huh!"
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You attempt to paint everyone here as pathetic only goes to show that you like to spend your pathetic life cheer leading for something you clearly know so little about. You have so little to say, but seem to take thousands of posts to get it across. We get it, you are a follower, not a leader, with nothing original to contribute here. Why don't you move on, since you clearly have nothing constructive to provide here? You are so transparent and you lack depth. You make hollow arguments with no substance. And the thousands of other posters here see that even if you do not. We laugh at you because you seem to need the attention. You are the patient. We are the non-therapists.
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Wow, I have been reading along here and you guys really perk up over this stuff!! I can see why you are so eager to paint everyone as being evil. You just view the whole industry through these stories. This shit happens folks. We have public school steachers who are raping kids and then moving to other districts... but not all teachers are rapists. but with programs you cant seem to get past the evil people that have worked there..... the boogey men own you. The rest of us know we need to keep our guard up but we dont need to give up on life.
HA HA! So predictable it's almost endearing! :rofl: :rofl:
After you finish roundly trouncing his BS premises, he responds with, "Whoa! Didn't mean to make you work that hard!" "Wow, you really must have spent a lot of time on that post!" "Guess I really hit a nerve there, huh!"
Thats Funny Ursus, You know me so well!! Sorry I was so obvious. I am getting tired I think.
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You are tiresome, not tired. We will work on the proper context for word usage this week. I am still feeling charitable so I will help you as best I can. But you need to be willing to commit yourself. Later we might do some simple speech and debate exercises, though I think those are probably a little beyond your abilities right now, but perhaps we can push you a little, see how you do.
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QFT. Dishonest ASR parent posing as an AR graduate. This is called "trolling" and "perpetrating fraud."
I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.
Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.
And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.
Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them!
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QFT. Same dishonest ASR parent now posing as parent of an AR kid whose "life was saved!" by the program. More lying. More fraud. What drives whackos like this to spend years on a survivor site making up phony testimonies for the favorite abusive shitpits? It's a sickness, IMO.
the important thing is the place has...without a single doubt...saved our daughter's life. TO sum up some of the other things: She's graduating from high school a year EARLY, and home-district had her do testing (plus she had a great SAT score) so it's no fluke, and she gets a DUAL diploma from Utah and our home state. She's happy, healthy - recently had another home visit that was totally without issues. She has direction in her life, and although she will have on going therapy for some time due to the trauma that triggered her particular problems, she understands it and is dealing with it from a healthy perspective.
A side benefit is she already has a part-time job (while she goes to college) working for a horse trainer...which is good, because the downside (if you can call it that) is she/we are in the process of buying a horse! But, since she's no looking into equine-related veterinary medicine, that's really a benefit.
I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.
Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.
And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.
Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them!
:beat: :beat: :beat: :beat:
Whooter......YOU'RE LYING.
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I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.
Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.
And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.
Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them!
:beat: :beat: :beat: :beat:
Whooter......YOU'RE LYING.
I plucked these from the "Aspen Site" or another Aspen forum on fornits.
...
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He's telling the truth. I tracked down the original (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=223240#p223240). Drop it now, both of you, or take to open free for all. There is already a thread there for discussing this.
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He's telling the truth. I tracked down the original (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=223240#p223240). Drop it now, both of you, or take to open free for all. There is already a thread there for discussing this.
Didn't see one in OFFA.
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He's telling the truth. I tracked down the original (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=223240#p223240). Drop it now, both of you, or take to open free for all. There is already a thread there for discussing this.
Didn't see one in OFFA.
This one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31116).
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He's telling the truth. I tracked down the original (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=223240#p223240). Drop it now, both of you, or take to open free for all. There is already a thread there for discussing this.
Was wondering how it got linked up with TheWho's posts and didn't see one in OFFA re: that post, so apologies.
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He's telling the truth. I tracked down the original (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=223240#p223240). Drop it now, both of you, or take to open free for all. There is already a thread there for discussing this.
Didn't see one in OFFA.
This one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31116).
Gotcha. Thx.