Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 10:31:00 PM
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"Because this case involved what is known as diversity of citizenship - in technical legal terms, Fred was a citizen of Virginia and Straight was a corporate citizen of Florida - it was possible to invoke the jurisdiction of a federal court."
-p. 49, The Great Drug War, Arnold Trebach, 2005
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Yeah, and he was probably a dream client, too, being a top student at a good tech school.
I believe that relgion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
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Oh fine, jump in with that old point again. :roll:
Are you really telling me that you have researched the kidnapping cases brought against Straight and found some statistical difference in the cases won vs. lost vis-a-vis this contention of yours?
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Yeah, ever notice how G jumps in to smack down any discussion of lawsuits? Talk about conspiracy spam.
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Slapping down lawsuits? Shit! LOL! Where would we be w/o Fred's case? And haven't I practically hawked Arnold's book all about it like a true fan?
Contention? What do you think I'm contending? Are you challenging that Fred Collins was probably about a dream client? Ask any lawyer. Credibility is an important aspect of any case. That's why they never tell you "Eh, dress casually, go ahead and bring the crackhead girlfriend, it'll be fine."
My only contention on the point of lawsuits is that it would be ever so much easier for lawyers to put together cases if public opinion about these places and their client victims were a little more receptive. So that's what I'm working on.
Wanna have a weenie roast?I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
* - ~ Galt's Creed ~ - *
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Never mind all that spam folks, the last four posts were clearly Antigen trolling to distract attention from the original question. I am also curious about the original post, and, now that I get to thinking about Fred Collins' case, I am wondering why no one was ever charged with kidnapping.
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On 2005-11-30 21:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am also curious about the original post, and, now that I get to thinking about Fred Collins' case, I am wondering why no one was ever charged with kidnapping."
Damn good question. I have been wondering the same thing for the past 20 years. It may have to do with the fact that many kidnappings involved parents & Straight staff. But I really dont know...I just imagine that might complicate things. I know it did for me.
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Could you explain that a little bit more?
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On 2005-11-30 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Could you explain that a little bit more?"
I begged police not to prosecute my parents....I didnt want my dad to go to jail for kidnapping. I could care less about all the others that would have gone to jail...2 staff members, my step monster, and the three unknown accomplices. Police did tell me that the state could prosecute whether I liked it or not...It just never happened for some reason. BTW, I was 18 when I was kidnapped.
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Interesting. I wonder if Virginia would work the same way, that is, could they prosecute for kidnapping with or without the victim?
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That would be interesting. I heard that there are no s.o.l.'s on felony crimes in VA.
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Anyone know the statutes on federal kidnapping charges?
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Criminal
Straight-Cincinnati
sensory deprivations, sexual confessions, kids sitting in own defecation, kids carving on self. Atty. Richard Doyle 606-431-5683 , Cincinnati, led 3 year investigation.
Ohio
Straight voluntarily closed on day of trial. Strangely, today Kids Helping Kids of Cincinnati --a Straight descendent program operates out of old Straight -Cincinnati facility
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http://http://www.thestraights.com/legal/matrix-civil-criminal.htm
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I never really looked at that page before. It's got a lot of lawyer's names on it, and some cases wherein justice was not done because of conspiracy, it looks like.
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I wonder if Virginia would work the same way, that is, could they prosecute for kidnapping with or without the victim?
With or without the consent of the victim, you mean, right?
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Good point, you're clearly up on the legal vocabulary. Kidnapping in VA is a class 5 felony. No statutes there.
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I was looking through the Ohio Code - kidnapping is a first degree felony. I can't make heads or tails of the sentencing guidelines nor did I find statutes. Anyone else want to make a go of it?
http://http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC
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Did any Straight employee ever get charged with criminal kidnapping?
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On 2005-11-30 23:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was looking through the Ohio Code - kidnapping is a first degree felony. I can't make heads or tails of the sentencing guidelines nor did I find statutes. Anyone else want to make a go of it?
http://http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC"
When I recently contacted the police dept with jurisdiction over my case...I was told the statute of limitations on kidnapping in Ohio was 7 years. I was also told the same thing, that it is a first degree felony.
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Looks like kidnapping is a class A felony under federal law, 10 years to life.
http://http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/ii/chapters/227/subchapters/a/sections/section_3559.html
The statutes there are five years. There are some special provisions relating to kidnapping of minors, for example, " (g) Special Rule for Certain Offenses Involving Children. -
(1) To whom applicable. - If -
(A) the victim of an offense under this section has not
attained the age of eighteen years; and
(B) the offender -
(i) has attained such age; and
(ii) is not -
(I) a parent;
(II) a grandparent;
(III) a brother;
(IV) a sister;
(V) an aunt;
(VI) an uncle; or
(VII) an individual having legal custody of the victim;
the sentence under this section for such offense shall be subject
to paragraph (2) of this subsection.
(2) Guidelines. - The United States Sentencing Commission is
directed to amend the existing guidelines for the offense of
''kidnapping, abduction, or unlawful restraint,'' by including
the following additional specific offense characteristics: If the
victim was intentionally maltreated (i.e., denied either food or
medical care) to a life-threatening degree, increase by 4 levels;
if the victim was sexually exploited (i.e., abused, used
involuntarily for pornographic purposes) increase by 3 levels; if
the victim was placed in the care or custody of another person
who does not have a legal right to such care or custody of the
child either in exchange for money or other consideration,
increase by 3 levels; if the defendant allowed the child to be
subjected to any of the conduct specified in this section by
another person, then increase by 2 levels."
http://http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/55/sections/section_1201.html
Interesting stuff. Think about the suicides and the medical neglect.
Let's get Randall Hinton behind bars. Any news on this?
Also, how about all those professional child kidnappers. Now, the parents might have agreed to it, however, there's guidelines for interstate transport, right? How about if the program abuses the child. Just thinking. Child abuse.
Where's the FBI at with all this institutionalized child abuse? Anyone know?
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Okay, let me see if I have this right. There were several (many? a few?) instances of people being held against their will after age 18, and, so far, I haven't seen that anyone was ever charged with criminal kidnapping. Did I miss a case? I think there were some civil kidnapping charges, payoffs, settlements, that sort of thing.
Is anyone else thinking what I am thinking?
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Is this a riddle?
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is this a joke?
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Although prosecutors closed the clinics, six-figure settlements sucked it dry, and state health officials yanked its licenses after media reports of teen torture and cover-up, Sembler himself escaped punishment. As one of the preeminent and hardest-working GOP fundraisers, Sembler has received the honor of living during the George W. Bush presidency at the Villa Taverna, the official residence for the U.S. ambassador, which has the largest private garden in Rome. One night in May at "The Magic Kingdom" (as Mel and Betty call it), the dining room filled with smoke from fine cigars, as the ambassador entertained Bush Sr. and an entourage -- until Betty complained that the old friends were stinking up "my house," the Washington Post reported.
:wave:
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hmmn. what if...
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He's come home, but still wafting across national drug policy is the influence of his STRAIGHT, which has legally changed its identity to the Drug Free America Foundation (director Calvina Fay denies it's the same organization but the name change is listed in Florida corporate filings). Subsidized by tax dollars, it lobbies for severe narcotics policies and workplace drug testing, with an advisory board that includes the like of Gov. Jeb Bush and his wife Columba, and Homeland Security Director of Public Safety Christy McCampbell. A more pressing issue is that former overseers of Sembler's company, true believers in the STRAIGHT model, are still running spin-off businesses that treat teens with the old methods. :wstupid:
:wave:
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Just outta curiousity, I'd like to send my little super-sleuths on a mission. Find me a couple of things. Find me all the Straight cases that overcame the statute of limitations. Then find me cases - these don't have to be Straight cases - wherein a crime went unprosecuted until citizens put the heat on the police/justice system.
Points for speed, accuracy, and completeness of task; points are cumulative, so post what you find when you find it. All answers will be verified via respected sources.
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Dont try that Hypocritical Conservative Republican Tactic of CHANGING THE SUBJECT. Go find that information yourself. :grin:
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On 2005-12-03 16:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Dont try that Hypocritical Conservative Republican Tactic of CHANGING THE SUBJECT. Go find that information yourself. :grin: "
25 points for impersonating Reagan Youth.
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The story begins in 1976 when Sembler, who'd made his fortune in Florida real estate, founded STRAIGHT from the ashes of The Seed -- an earlier program suspended by the U.S. Senate for tactics reminiscent, said a senator, of Communist POW camps. But as the Reagan years rolled into view, and a climate of fear nurtured a Shock and Awe approach to teens, the Semblers found a new world of acceptance for an anything-goes treatment business, meting out punishment in privately run warehouses. Endorsers from Nancy Reagan to George H.W. Bush lent their names to the program, celebrating a role model weapon in the "war on drugs."
Nine years before the elder Bush took office, Sembler was a faithful political supporter, and raising millions beginning in '79 for the Bushes' clash with Reagan for the Republican nomination. In 1988, as Bush finally accepted the GOP's nomination for president, Sembler sat in the front row. With his man in the White House, STRAIGHT would become a vehicle for purchasing eminence as a Drug War thinker. By 1988, Sembler wasn't just running the Vice President's "Team 100" soft money campaign and enjoying steak dinners with him -- he was sojourning in George and Barbara Bush's living room, briefing the candidate on drug policy. As a token of his friendship, he gave Bush a new tennis racket, receiving this note in return: "Maybe we can play at Camp David someday."
:wave:
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I will concede a bit of ground to you, and suggest to sleuths that they look especially for cases in which, as in Brown vs. The Board of Education, justice prevailed in spite of the dominant culture.
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"On May 10, 2004, our prayers were finally answered and the Department of Justice, reopened the investigation of the murder of Emmett Louis Till based on the 9-year research that I conducted during the production of my documentary, "The Untold Story of Emmett Louis Till.""
http://www.black-collegian.com/african/ ... -2nd.shtml (http://www.black-collegian.com/african/till2005-2nd.shtml)
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huh.
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http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20041007.html (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20041007.html)
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http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040713.html (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040713.html)
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What do you make of this sentence from the article linked below:
[bold type is my own emphasis]
"The solution is simple: All states should abolish the statute of limitations - as the federal government did in 1999, and as Maine and Alaska have done."
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20050616.html (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20050616.html)
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The Elizabeth Smart Case: Why We Need Specific Laws Against Brainwashing
by Marci Hamilton
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20030327.html (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20030327.html)
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On 2005-11-30 23:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was looking through the Ohio Code - kidnapping is a first degree felony. I can't make heads or tails of the sentencing guidelines nor did I find statutes. Anyone else want to make a go of it?
http://http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC"
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On 2005-12-01 04:31:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
"
On 2005-11-30 23:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was looking through the Ohio Code - kidnapping is a first degree felony. I can't make heads or tails of the sentencing guidelines nor did I find statutes. Anyone else want to make a go of it?
http://http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC"
When I recently contacted the police dept with jurisdiction over my case...I was told the statute of limitations on kidnapping in Ohio was 7 years. I was also told the same thing, that it is a first degree felony."
100 points, thanks NCL.
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Okay, here's the mission, we are looking for examples of unprosecuted cases that were finally prosecuted or otherwise brought to justice in some way because a victim's relatives or other seekers of justice put the heat on the case.
I am going to up the ante here & call this a 250-pointer, extra points for speediness of reply, well told stories and so on.
Consider this fun, all examples welcome.
Let the games begin!