Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Hyde Schools => Topic started by: Lars on November 30, 2005, 09:24:00 PM
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I was recently contacted by a guy who I went to school with there who is now a faculty member. They had been reading the discussions on this board and figured out who I was. Interestingly, this faculty member was quite puzzled as to why I had such strong negative feelings aboout my experience there. After all, I was the guy who won the "golden shovel" award - given to the student who spent the most time spent on 2/4 for the most good - whatever that meant.
It was a civil conversation. The guy was someone I always liked and respected. I tried to explain how I felt without being hostile. Clearly, they're concerned. I'm not sure if they really understand that some of the more successful students hated the place even after they learned to play the game, fly under the radar & survive so they could get the hell out. In any event, our phone conversation reminded me that many of the folks there truly believe that they're doing great work. Those of us who are speaking out need to voice our concerns in a logical & coherent way. Of course, the Hyde folks need to understand and accept that for people like me, the experience sucked on every level and left scars.
This faculty member suggested that I should come back to the campus and talk to Malcolm, Laura & Joe about how I feel. Frankly, I don't really feel like doing that. I told the guy that getting stuff off my chest on this site was good for me. It was clear that the powers that be in Bath aren't happy about this website, but they know they can't do anything about it.
Should I bother to talk to these people? Part of me says yeah, give 'em an earful. The other part says nah, what's the point - I've said what I want to say here. I dunno, any former Hyde students who feel the way I do have any thoughts on this?
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On 2005-11-30 18:24:00, Lars wrote:
"I was recently contacted by a guy who I went to school with there who is now a faculty member. They had been reading the discussions on this board and figured out who I was. Interestingly, this faculty member was quite puzzled as to why I had such strong negative feelings aboout my experience there. After all, I was the guy who won the "golden shovel" award - given to the student who spent the most time spent on 2/4 for the most good - whatever that meant.
It was a civil conversation. The guy was someone I always liked and respected. I tried to explain how I felt without being hostile. Clearly, they're concerned. I'm not sure if they really understand that some of the more successful students hated the place even after they learned to play the game, fly under the radar & survive so they could get the hell out. In any event, our phone conversation reminded me that many of the folks there truly believe that they're doing great work. Those of us who are speaking out need to voice our concerns in a logical & coherent way. Of course, the Hyde folks need to understand and accept that for people like me, the experience sucked on every level and left scars.
This faculty member suggested that I should come back to the campus and talk to Malcolm, Laura & Joe about how I feel. Frankly, I don't really feel like doing that. I told the guy that getting stuff off my chest on this site was good for me. It was clear that the powers that be in Bath aren't happy about this website, but they know they can't do anything about it.
Should I bother to talk to these people? Part of me says yeah, give 'em an earful. The other part says nah, what's the point - I've said what I want to say here. I dunno, any former Hyde students who feel the way I do have any thoughts on this? "
I'm intrigued by your question about whether it makes sense to return to campus to talk to Malcolm, Laura, Joe, etc. Here's a key question that I'm unable to answer from the way you've framed this: Is there ANY evidence that the senior Hyde administrators are requesting this meeting, or is this merely your former classmate's idea? If it's the latter, my gut feeling is that it would be a set-up. I'd predict that you'd share your concerns and get a truck load of standard Hyde-speak in response. You'd get the predictable, naive, and superficial cliches that Hyde utters in response to nearly everything. I can hear the comments now about the apple falling close to the tree, your attitude, betting on the truth, and all the other scripted lingo. I'd predict you'd leave there feeling unheard, manipulated, angry, frustrated and full of "Why did I do this? Why did I think this would do any good?" feelings. The best comparison I can think of is the chronically abused wife who keeps coming back for more, believing that THIS time maybe the tyrant has changed. Then, she gets whacked again and wonders why she set herself up for this abuse. That's the set-up I'd be concerned about. I don't have the slightest bit of confidence that Hyde can be reformed. In so many ways Hyde resembles the domestic violence perpetrator -- arrogant, controlling, defensive, resistant to change. The only way to escape that kind of abuse is to flee the scene and not be seduced into returning. See?
However, if the Hyde administrators REALLY want to hear from you, I think they should take the initiative. I'd wait for them. If they reach out to you, I'd set firm ground rules. I'd insist that you not do this alone -- that you should be able to assemble a group of people who feel similarly and who agree to express themselves in a civil way. That way it's not you against the Hyde world, you'd have support, and you can't be accused of being the only one who has these intense anti-Hyde sentiments.
There's no doubt that there's a critical mass of people who feel as you do. This website proves that, plus there are other vocal critics out there. I'd take full advantage of that.
Of course, an alternative and rational response to all this is: Let Hyde twist in the wind. The only reason this website has stirred up so much Hyde dirt is that Hyde is often a terribly destructive environment -- maybe not for everyone, but clearly for many. So, Hyde made their own bed; let them lie in it (sorry for the mixed metaphor). You say folks at Hyde are very concerned about this website. Good.
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Actually, it was pretty obvious that the other party that came away from the conversation frustrated. I stuck to my guns and kept telling him, "this is how I feel - I can't change that and you can't change that." For a while, he kept trying to convince me that I was wrong, that I'd really had a positive experience. Within a short amount of time he realized that he was dealing with a different animal entirely. Not a confused kid or a desperate parent or a former student who was still "finding himself," but a successful & confident person who made it through their program and wouldn't shy away from telling them, albeit however nicely and respectfully, that they're full of of shit. And that is just WAY out of their league. Maybe, too, it's tough for them to deal with the idea that they inflicted unnecessary suffering on good kids who needed something different and better. Maybe not, they're pretty arrogant in their belief that their approach is the right way for all kids. Either way, I have no expectation of changing them. It's simply a matter of finally being able to tell them what I really think.
One thing's for sure, It's a hell of a lot different when they have no power over you. :smile:
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On 2005-11-30 19:56:00, Lars wrote:
"Actually, it was pretty obvious that the other party that came away from the conversation frustrated. I stuck to my guns and kept telling him, "this is how I feel - I can't change that and you can't change that." For a while, he kept trying to convince me that I was wrong, that I'd really had a positive experience. Within a short amount of time he realized that he was dealing with a different animal entirely. Not a confused kid or a desperate parent or a former student who was still "finding himself," but a successful & confident person who made it through their program and wouldn't shy away from telling them, albeit however nicely and respectfully, that they're full of of shit. And that is just WAY out of their league. Maybe, too, it's tough for them to deal with the idea that they inflicted unnecessary suffering on good kids who needed something different and better. Maybe not, they're pretty arrogant in their belief that their approach is the right way for all kids. Either way, I have no expectation of changing them. It's simply a matter of finally being able to tell them what I really think.
One thing's for sure, It's a hell of a lot different when they have no power over you. :smile: "
I have a lot of respect for you Lars. You are clearing your concience in YOUR way, not Hydes! You obviously didn't care if Hyde knew who you are as you gave full details of your life at Hyde and after Hyde.
I went to Hyde, I graduated from Hyde, and I would never go back to tell them what I think. My reasons might be different from yours, but I don't want to give them any power over me ever again. I know who I am, I know who they are, and I simply feel sorry for all the other victims who will pass through those halls and sit in the auditorium for the indoctrination.
I think they are full of it if they say they want to know how we feel. They are not stupid. They know how many parents have paid tuition yet their kids never finished the year, nor did they return the monies. They don't want real statistics or they would have them on hand. They chose to say 98% of all graduates are accepted into a four year college. We all know how they are twisting this statistic!
They know what they did to some of us, and they know how they have handled certain situations and complaints! Nahhhh, I sure wouldn't go head to head with them, but that is me. I don't need it. Expressing myself on this site is good enough for me.
They are so far gone they will never try to change their ways. Joe Gauld has all his followers convinced that his way is the only way. Why would Malcolm be any different? They taught us that our parents must change in order for us to change. We also learned that "the apple doesn't fall far." If this is the case then what about Joe's kids and the apple falling far? He hasn't changed his thinking so why would they be any different?
I hate to sound like Hyde Lars, but you need to listen to your concience and do what will be therapeutic for you. Don't confront them because someone else thinks you should. If you are to do it, do it because it is what YOU want to do!
Just some thoughts outloud. Hope you take them the way they are meant.
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On 2005-11-30 18:24:00, Lars wrote:
"I was recently contacted by a guy who I went to school with there who is now a faculty member. They had been reading the discussions on this board and figured out who I was. Interestingly, this faculty member was quite puzzled as to why I had such strong negative feelings aboout my experience there. After all, I was the guy who won the "golden shovel" award - given to the student who spent the most time spent on 2/4 for the most good - whatever that meant.
It was a civil conversation. The guy was someone I always liked and respected. I tried to explain how I felt without being hostile. Clearly, they're concerned. I'm not sure if they really understand that some of the more successful students hated the place even after they learned to play the game, fly under the radar & survive so they could get the hell out. In any event, our phone conversation reminded me that many of the folks there truly believe that they're doing great work. Those of us who are speaking out need to voice our concerns in a logical & coherent way. Of course, the Hyde folks need to understand and accept that for people like me, the experience sucked on every level and left scars.
This faculty member suggested that I should come back to the campus and talk to Malcolm, Laura & Joe about how I feel. Frankly, I don't really feel like doing that. I told the guy that getting stuff off my chest on this site was good for me. It was clear that the powers that be in Bath aren't happy about this website, but they know they can't do anything about it.
Should I bother to talk to these people? Part of me says yeah, give 'em an earful. The other part says nah, what's the point - I've said what I want to say here. I dunno, any former Hyde students who feel the way I do have any thoughts on this? "
You gave them the earful through this site. Why go back and frustrate yourself?
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Trust your instincts Lars. If you feel it will help you by confronting them, go for it. If your instincts tell you it won't accomplish anything, listen to them.
The fact that someone from the school contacted you tells me they are worried about you and what you are saying on this site. I wouldn't doubt if Hyde picked out this particular friend to contact you thinking you would be receptive to him. I don't trust Hyde or their intentions.
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On 2005-11-30 19:56:00, Lars wrote:
"Actually, it was pretty obvious that the other party that came away from the conversation frustrated. I stuck to my guns and kept telling him, "this is how I feel - I can't change that and you can't change that." For a while, he kept trying to convince me that I was wrong, that I'd really had a positive experience. Within a short amount of time he realized that he was dealing with a different animal entirely. Not a confused kid or a desperate parent or a former student who was still "finding himself," but a successful & confident person who made it through their program and wouldn't shy away from telling them, albeit however nicely and respectfully, that they're full of of shit. And that is just WAY out of their league. Maybe, too, it's tough for them to deal with the idea that they inflicted unnecessary suffering on good kids who needed something different and better. Maybe not, they're pretty arrogant in their belief that their approach is the right way for all kids. Either way, I have no expectation of changing them. It's simply a matter of finally being able to tell them what I really think.
One thing's for sure, It's a hell of a lot different when they have no power over you. :smile: "
I think you're right on the money with your last comment. Hyde is so used to being in control, unchallenged, calling the shots. Joe Gauld and company are so deeply in the mindset of telling other people what to do with their lives (wrapped around messages that Hyde families need to take control of their own lives). My guess is that the current situation, where Hyde is being subjected to horrible PR and in a very public way that could affect their enrollments, is rattling their cage. It's probably killing them that so many people who Google Hyde are seeing these comments. They've never been in this situation -- now THEY (as opposed to Hyde families in FLCs, etc.) are feeling overexposed. The tables are being turned on Hyde and there's no play for this in the Hyde playbook (that notebook that all of us received when we signed on).
I wouldn't be surprised if the Hyde senior staff have been caucusing to figure out how to handle this mess. Perhaps they've debated whether to respond or, instead, to create the impression that they haven't noticed this website so that they don't add fuel to the fire. I have a feeling they're in a no-win situation, and they know it. They'd love to respond and try to challenge and discredit what's being said about them (much of it fair, some of it unfair), but there's no easy way for them to do that without getting dragged into a dialogue they don't want to have.
You say that Hyde knows who you are. If so, Hyde administrators can respond to you directly on this website. I'd invite them to do just that.
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You know, this website does have a lot of negativity, but as far as credibility....no one has identified themselves, except Tommy and Lars partially.
So there could be only a handful of people posting, which gives very little in the way of starting a huge PR mess for Hyde.
There are always people who are unhappy with a product or service, but until you come clean with who you are, we could assume these posts are coming from an extremely vocal minority.
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On 2005-12-01 07:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You know, this website does have a lot of negativity, but as far as credibility....no one has identified themselves, except Tommy and Lars partially.
So there could be only a handful of people posting, which gives very little in the way of starting a huge PR mess for Hyde.
There are always people who are unhappy with a product or service, but until you come clean with who you are, we could assume these posts are coming from an extremely vocal minority."
We could assume from your post that you are a Hyde faculty member. Are you willing to identify yourself?
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On 2005-12-01 07:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You know, this website does have a lot of negativity, but as far as credibility....no one has identified themselves, except Tommy and Lars partially.
So there could be only a handful of people posting, which gives very little in the way of starting a huge PR mess for Hyde.
There are always people who are unhappy with a product or service, but until you come clean with who you are, we could assume these posts are coming from an extremely vocal minority."
Why are you not identifying yourself? I know why I don't identify myself, but what is your reason?
Hyde's rhetoric about "what goes on in the room, stays in the room" is only for the students and parents. Nothing is sacred at Hyde amongst the staff and because parents and students are sucked into devulging very intimate details of their lives, it could be Russian Roulette devulging our names. I completely understand why someone would not want to identify themselves. It is the same reason most parents walk away from Hyde after graduation, never to be seen again. It is embarassing to be associated with Hyde.
As far as credibility, I don't think someone needs to identify themselves in order to be credible. You only want to know so you can then look back in your files and see what dirt you have on the person! The only people who would want to know who is posting is Hyde.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out how many posters are on this site just like it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is posting from Hyde. It is obvious from the style of writing who the repeats are. You can also tell whether the posters are on the east coast or west coast based on the "time" they write. Then again they might have waking hours that don't fall into the norm.
Bottom line, it doesn't matter who any of us are. IMHO there have been mostly legitimate claims on this site and possibly some that are an exaggeration. I think that a bright person can figure it out.
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On 2005-12-01 07:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
As far as credibility, I don't think someone needs to identify themselves in order to be credible. You only want to know so you can then look back in your files and see what dirt you have on the person! The only people who would want to know who is posting is Hyde.
I'm not an expert on school law and the related privacy issues, but I believe that they could get in SERIOUS trouble if they divulged information from student files. Nobody should be afraid to speak out. I understand that families still involved with the program could reasonably fear retaliation against their kids - based on my experience there, I'm sure the Hyde people are not above doing that. But if that's the case, they should be getting out, and fast.
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On 2005-12-01 11:30:00, Lars wrote:
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On 2005-12-01 07:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
As far as credibility, I don't think someone needs to identify themselves in order to be credible. You only want to know so you can then look back in your files and see what dirt you have on the person! The only people who would want to know who is posting is Hyde.
I'm not an expert on school law and the related privacy issues, but I believe that they could get in SERIOUS trouble if they divulged information from student files. Nobody should be afraid to speak out. I understand that families still involved with the program could reasonably fear retaliation against their kids - based on my experience there, I'm sure the Hyde people are not above doing that. But if that's the case, they should be getting out, and fast. "
When has the law ever stopped Hyde from doing what they want? I am sure there must be laws which protect children from some of the abuses at Hyde yet when it comes to confronting, parents fear going outside the school! The following are some of the reasons why;
1. Many of Hyde's students have been in trouble previously and fear they will not be believed
2. Many of the parents are well established, well known citizens in their communities, and do not want to bring attention to themselves.
3. Parents fear the intimacies which were spoken about during seminars will be disclosed to the public
Number three is what I think parents fear most. To be a member of Hyde you are forced to disclose things about yourself that you would never want exposed. If you don't come up with enough dirt during a seminar, then the school/facilitators encourage your kid to confront you on very personal matters. You feel backed against a wall in front of many strangers, and it becomes an emotional tug of war till you come out with something sacred, embarassing, humiliating, or otherwise.
So in answer to the following post, there is much more to fear then what might be in a students file.
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Lars, when you went to Hyde did they put pressure on the parents to recruit other families like they did in the late 90's?
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On 2005-12-01 18:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Lars, when you went to Hyde did they put pressure on the parents to recruit other families like they did in the late 90's?
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I don't recall how much pressure they applied, but I know they had parents in what seemed to be "feeder" towns (affluent suburbs where parents with troubled kids had sent kids to Hyde) like Greenwich, Connecticut or Lexington, Massachussetts hold open houses for prospective parents.[ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-01 19:22 ]
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Yes exactly and each "member" was expected to send out a certain many invitations to this little event held in one of the members homes. It might have been five or ten invitations required, I don't recall. I felt like I was a hari krishna who was sent out to recruit more members!! It was a very awkward situation to be put in. We were paying over $30,000 per year, on top of this we were expected to donate for the annual fundraising, and then we were asked to recruit more families for them. Does anyone else think this is odd for a "boarding school?"
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On 2005-12-01 22:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes exactly and each "member" was expected to send out a certain many invitations to this little event held in one of the members homes. It might have been five or ten invitations required, I don't recall. I felt like I was a hari krishna who was sent out to recruit more members!! It was a very awkward situation to be put in. We were paying over $30,000 per year, on top of this we were expected to donate for the annual fundraising, and then we were asked to recruit more families for them. Does anyone else think this is odd for a "boarding school?""
I've never been associated with a school that had to push so hard to bring in new students. Hyde's aggressive recruitment and marketing strategies provide additional evidence that the school cannot depend entirely on its reputation to replenish the supply of incoming students. Hyde has become increasingly controversial and there are so many concerns floating around about mistreatment of students and families at Hyde that the school is probably worried about enrollments. Organizations that market themselves as aggressively as Hyde does, and that push currently enrolled families to sponsor coffees and bring in potential families, tend to be organizations that are nervous about their enrollments. I have a funny feeling that Hyde's increasingly negative reputation, fueled to some extent by this website, will lead to even more hand wringing at the school and more aggressive marketing tactics. It will be interesting to see if there's evidence of this at the next family weekend when the masses are gathered in the auditorium for the usual "let's praise Hyde" testimonials.
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There are other schools and programs that market like this. WWASP, acording to what I've seen on the 'net, PAYS parents for referals. And I think that in this respect scAmway is a better metaphor than the Hare Krishnas.
say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile.
--Kurt Vonnegut, American author
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On 2005-12-02 11:54:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:
"There are other schools and programs that market like this. WWASP, acording to what I've seen on the 'net, PAYS parents for referals. And I think that in this respect scAmway is a better metaphor than the Hare Krishnas.say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile.
--Kurt Vonnegut, American author
"
Ah, yes. I don't think Hyde would want to be associated with WWASPS (the World Wide Association of Speciality Schools). That's the organization that has had:
-- schools closed down and sued because of alleged abuses: http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/impor ... wasps.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/important_notice_of_lawsuite_against_wwasps.html)
-- to refund tuition money because of misrepresentations to parents: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600156973,00.html (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600156973,00.html)
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The link for the tuition refund lawsuit does not work. Can you provide this again or direct us in another way?
This sure would have been helpful about a year ago as there was total misrepresentation when my son was admitted!
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On 2005-12-02 14:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The link for the tuition refund lawsuit does not work. Can you provide this again or direct us in another way?
This sure would have been helpful about a year ago as there was total misrepresentation when my son was admitted!"
Sorry about the dead link. I'm not sure why it didn't work. I just found several articles on the tuition lawsuit listed on this other website. I hope this works: http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/WWASParticles.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/WWASParticles.html)
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Boarding school ordered to refund tuition
N.Y. academy has ties to St. George association
By Nicole Warburton
Deseret Morning News
A New York boarding school for troubled teens that has ties to Utah has been ordered to refund more than $1 million to parents and stop misrepresenting itself, according to officials who Thursday announced the end of an 18-month investigation of the school.
The investigation by the New York Attorney General's Office concludes that the school ? the Academy at Ivy Ridge ? was "grossly misrepresenting its academic credentials."
The school had no authority to issue high school diplomas, yet since its opening in 2001, it awarded diplomas to 113 students, according to a statement from Eliot Spitzer, New York attorney general.
"The Academy at Ivy Ridge marketed itself to parents who were seeking a solution to their teens' behavior problems and who were willing to pay top dollar for the school's programs," Spitzer said in a statement. "What these parents did not know was that Ivy Ridge's educational programs had not been authorized or approved by the State Education Department."
The investigation also concluded that Ivy Ridge was not accredited, even though the school claimed it was accredited by the Northwest Association of Accredited Schools, based in Boise.
Ivy Ridge, located near the Canadian border, is affiliated with WWASPS or the World Wide Association of Speciality Schools, which is based in St. George and founded by Utah resident Robert Lichfield ? a top contributor to the Republican party at local and national levels.
As a result of the New York state investigation that probed allegations of fraud and other abuses, Ivy Ridge will be required to issue a 15 percent refund of tuition to each of its 113 graduates. Similar refunds will be offered to about 100 current and former students.
Tuition at the school is about $50,000 per year.
Ken Kay, president of WWASPS, says the agreement between New York state and Ivy Ridge has no connection to the services WWASPS provides to the school.
WWASPS has affiliations with seven boarding schools for troubled teens ? including a facility in Randolph and schools in La Verkin. Several programs, including facilities overseas, have come under scrutiny amid allegations of child abuse.
The investigation into Ivy Ridge was initiated after state police said a teenager was beaten while being transported to the school. New York State police said the transport service had ties to WWASPS, an allegation the organization has denied.
Said Kay: "It's not my place to get involved in specific negotiations. They have nothing to do with the World Wide Association and the services we provide."
"The World Wide Association doesn't deal directly with the kids," he said. "We're a service provider. What always surprises me is, of course, these allegations. . . .. There is nobody in this organization that thinks it's OK to abuse a child mentally or physically in any way."
A statement by Spitzer had no mention of investigations into alleged child abuse at Ivy Ridge. In recent years, several schools associated with WWASPS have been closed after such allegations.
In the 2005 legislative session, Utah lawmakers passed a bill instituting tighter controls over boarding schools.
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E-mail: nwarburton@desnews.com
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On 2005-12-02 21:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Boarding school ordered to refund tuition
N.Y. academy has ties to St. George association
By Nicole Warburton
Deseret Morning News
A New York boarding school for troubled teens that has ties to Utah has been ordered to refund more than $1 million to parents and stop misrepresenting itself, according to officials who Thursday announced the end of an 18-month investigation of the school.
The investigation by the New York Attorney General's Office concludes that the school ? the Academy at Ivy Ridge ? was "grossly misrepresenting its academic credentials."
The school had no authority to issue high school diplomas, yet since its opening in 2001, it awarded diplomas to 113 students, according to a statement from Eliot Spitzer, New York attorney general.
"The Academy at Ivy Ridge marketed itself to parents who were seeking a solution to their teens' behavior problems and who were willing to pay top dollar for the school's programs," Spitzer said in a statement. "What these parents did not know was that Ivy Ridge's educational programs had not been authorized or approved by the State Education Department."
The investigation also concluded that Ivy Ridge was not accredited, even though the school claimed it was accredited by the Northwest Association of Accredited Schools, based in Boise.
Ivy Ridge, located near the Canadian border, is affiliated with WWASPS or the World Wide Association of Speciality Schools, which is based in St. George and founded by Utah resident Robert Lichfield ? a top contributor to the Republican party at local and national levels.
As a result of the New York state investigation that probed allegations of fraud and other abuses, Ivy Ridge will be required to issue a 15 percent refund of tuition to each of its 113 graduates. Similar refunds will be offered to about 100 current and former students.
Tuition at the school is about $50,000 per year.
Ken Kay, president of WWASPS, says the agreement between New York state and Ivy Ridge has no connection to the services WWASPS provides to the school.
WWASPS has affiliations with seven boarding schools for troubled teens ? including a facility in Randolph and schools in La Verkin. Several programs, including facilities overseas, have come under scrutiny amid allegations of child abuse.
The investigation into Ivy Ridge was initiated after state police said a teenager was beaten while being transported to the school. New York State police said the transport service had ties to WWASPS, an allegation the organization has denied.
Said Kay: "It's not my place to get involved in specific negotiations. They have nothing to do with the World Wide Association and the services we provide."
"The World Wide Association doesn't deal directly with the kids," he said. "We're a service provider. What always surprises me is, of course, these allegations. . . .. There is nobody in this organization that thinks it's OK to abuse a child mentally or physically in any way."
A statement by Spitzer had no mention of investigations into alleged child abuse at Ivy Ridge. In recent years, several schools associated with WWASPS have been closed after such allegations.
In the 2005 legislative session, Utah lawmakers passed a bill instituting tighter controls over boarding schools.
--------------------------------------------------
E-mail: nwarburton@desnews.com
"
It's very interesting that, according to this article, "in the 2005 legislative session, Utah lawmakers passed a bill instituting tighter controls over boarding schools." One of the things that's so distressing about Hyde is that it hasn't been held accountable by public authorities. I'd like to know what state officials in Maine and Connecticut would think if they knew details about some of the practices that have been discussed on this website. Does anyone know whether any state agencies in Maine and Connecticut have authority over Hyde?
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On 2005-12-02 21:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Boarding school ordered to refund tuition
N.Y. academy has ties to St. George association
By Nicole Warburton
Deseret Morning News
A New York boarding school for troubled teens that has ties to Utah has been ordered to refund more than $1 million to parents and stop misrepresenting itself, according to officials who Thursday announced the end of an 18-month investigation of the school.
The investigation by the New York Attorney General's Office concludes that the school ? the Academy at Ivy Ridge ? was "grossly misrepresenting its academic credentials."
The school had no authority to issue high school diplomas, yet since its opening in 2001, it awarded diplomas to 113 students, according to a statement from Eliot Spitzer, New York attorney general.
"The Academy at Ivy Ridge marketed itself to parents who were seeking a solution to their teens' behavior problems and who were willing to pay top dollar for the school's programs," Spitzer said in a statement. "What these parents did not know was that Ivy Ridge's educational programs had not been authorized or approved by the State Education Department."
The investigation also concluded that Ivy Ridge was not accredited, even though the school claimed it was accredited by the Northwest Association of Accredited Schools, based in Boise.
Ivy Ridge, located near the Canadian border, is affiliated with WWASPS or the World Wide Association of Speciality Schools, which is based in St. George and founded by Utah resident Robert Lichfield ? a top contributor to the Republican party at local and national levels.
As a result of the New York state investigation that probed allegations of fraud and other abuses, Ivy Ridge will be required to issue a 15 percent refund of tuition to each of its 113 graduates. Similar refunds will be offered to about 100 current and former students.
Tuition at the school is about $50,000 per year.
Ken Kay, president of WWASPS, says the agreement between New York state and Ivy Ridge has no connection to the services WWASPS provides to the school.
WWASPS has affiliations with seven boarding schools for troubled teens ? including a facility in Randolph and schools in La Verkin. Several programs, including facilities overseas, have come under scrutiny amid allegations of child abuse.
The investigation into Ivy Ridge was initiated after state police said a teenager was beaten while being transported to the school. New York State police said the transport service had ties to WWASPS, an allegation the organization has denied.
Said Kay: "It's not my place to get involved in specific negotiations. They have nothing to do with the World Wide Association and the services we provide."
"The World Wide Association doesn't deal directly with the kids," he said. "We're a service provider. What always surprises me is, of course, these allegations. . . .. There is nobody in this organization that thinks it's OK to abuse a child mentally or physically in any way."
A statement by Spitzer had no mention of investigations into alleged child abuse at Ivy Ridge. In recent years, several schools associated with WWASPS have been closed after such allegations.
In the 2005 legislative session, Utah lawmakers passed a bill instituting tighter controls over boarding schools.
--------------------------------------------------
E-mail: http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE62A/62A02.htm (http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE62A/62A02.htm)) seems to include schools like Hyde ("does not include a therapeutic school") and spells out specific penalties if there's evidence that regulations have been violated. The penalties are:
62A-2-112. Violations -- Penalties.
If the office finds that a violation has occurred under Section 62A-2-111, it may:
(1) deny, place conditions on, suspend, or revoke a license, if it finds:
(a) that there has been a failure to comply with the rules approved by the board; or
(b) evidence of aiding, abetting, or permitting the commission of any illegal act; or
(2) restrict or prohibit new admissions to a human services program or facility, if it finds:
(a) that there has been a failure to comply with rules approved by the board; or
(b) evidence of aiding, abetting, or permitting the commission of any illegal act in the human services program or facility.
Does anyone know whether there's a similar law in Connecticut or Maine?
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Hello, I currently work at Hyde School in Maine, what exactly is this place?
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On 2005-12-03 19:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hello, I currently work at Hyde School in Maine, what exactly is this place? "
I don't understand your question. Are you asking what this website is? This website is providing a forum for people to express their opinions about the Hyde School. What is your position at Hyde?
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Thank you, I googled Hyde and I found this site, wasnt exactly sure what it was...As far as my position goes? No need for me to state any further information..Have a great weekend.
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By the way, this Hyde link is an absolute cesspool.
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On 2005-12-03 19:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thank you, I googled Hyde and I found this site, wasnt exactly sure what it was...As far as my position goes? No need for me to state any further information..Have a great weekend." By the way, this Hyde link is an absolute cesspool.
I wonder why this "anonymous" would come on the board, comment that he has nothing to say and then call this link a "cesspool."
What does this say about the staff who work at Hyde? I would think that anyone who is truly interested in debating any of the comments on this board, would be mature and respectful to others who have differing opinions.
I think it is important to keep this board as it is, a place to inform and educate! If you aren't interested in this "anonymous" then go back to your Cult at Hyde!
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On 2005-12-03 19:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thank you, I googled Hyde and I found this site, wasnt exactly sure what it was...As far as my position goes? No need for me to state any further information..Have a great weekend."
Uh huh. You just googled it. That's why the administration had a faculty member contact me when they figured out who I am. Where's your integrity? But since the board is such a "cesspool," I'm sure you won't bother to post here anymore. Good riddance!
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On 2005-12-03 19:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"By the way, this Hyde link is an absolute cesspool."
To parents who are considering Hyde School for their child: This little exchange between someone who claims to be a Hyde staff member and several people who post on this site is typical of what you can expect if you enroll at Hyde. Notice the Hyde staff person's tone and language: "By the way, this Hyde link is an absolute cesspool."
This is exactly the sort of arrogant, dismissive, patronizing, judgmental tone you can expect to find at Hyde. While some staff people don't stoop to this level of inappropriate behavior, I've encountered quite a few Hyde staff people who come across exactly like this. When they encounter a comment or behavior they don't like, they're quick to judge, condemn, point fingers, and label.
In fact, this website is not a cesspool. I encourage you to take time to read many of the postings. Although some of the postings are not thoughtful or helpful, there's an incredible number of informative, thoughtful postings. To describe this as a cesspool is the height of (typical Hyde) arrogance.
If you're comfortable with this sort of behavior, Hyde may be the right school for you and your family. However, if you prefer a school where staff don't usually behave this way, and instead are supportive, responsive, helpful, and appropriately firm in a constructive way, spend time finding a well informed, principled educational consultant. There are many terrific schools out there. Hyde is NOT one of them, as this Hyde staff person's comments attest.
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The staff member who posted definitely exemplifies the undermining attitude a great majority of the staff carry around on campus, but Hyde, all in all, is a safe, and reliable school to send your teenagers
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On 2005-12-04 12:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The staff member who posted definitely exemplifies the undermining attitude a great majority of the staff carry around on campus, but Hyde, all in all, is a safe, and reliable school to send your teenagers"
I don't understand this last post. On one hand you say that this is the "undermining attitude a great majority of the staff carry" and on the other hand you say Hyde is a safe and reliable school to send your teenagers.
How can Hyde be reliable and safe when a great majority of the staff are Cult like in attitude. I sure wouldn't want to put my daughter at a school like this!!
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Are you saying Hyde is not a safe school? That what my point was, kind sir.
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Why are staf members so sneaky and derogatory? Did they not have enough of putting down students in their cult school while we WERE ACTUALLY there, now they must continue to do so ..Unreal
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On 2005-12-04 12:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The staff member who posted definitely exemplifies the undermining attitude a great majority of the staff carry around on campus, but Hyde, all in all, is a safe, and reliable school to send your teenagers"
To parents considering Hyde: This is yet another comment that exemplifies Hyde's remarkably destructive qualities. This is the sort of contradictory, damaging perspective that surrounds kids and families at Hyde. The person who posted this comment (above) says (1) "a great majority of" Hyde staff typically display an "undermining attitude" and (2) Hyde is a "safe, and reliable school." Imagine your child surrounded by staff who undermine them and display the sort of arrogant, judgmental, shaming, dismissive attitude expressed by the Hyde staff person who referred to this website as a "cesspool." Would you consider that a "safe and reliable" atmosphere? And, there is so much else at Hyde that's even more destructive.
Imagine what kind of damage a couple of years of this kind of twisted environment and thinking could do to your kid and yourself.
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Excellent points right there...Excellent..Thank you
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Hey , anyone remember Tara R from New Jersey..She was with us in 96 or so..
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Hi, Im a parent that's looking into sending my 15 year old son to Hyde..Is there any PHYSICAL abuse at this school, please be honest, thanks in advance, Veronica
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On 2005-12-04 15:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hi, Im a parent that's looking into sending my 15 year old son to Hyde..Is there any PHYSICAL abuse at this school, please be honest, thanks in advance, Veronica"
I'm not aware of significant instances of physical abuse at Hyde. During our time with Hyde we've heard direct reports of instances where staff have screamed at students and yelled insults at them (and parents too), and we've observed a couple of these incidents. I've heard rumors of inappropriate physical contact between Hyde staff and students (and one lawsuit alleging sexual harassment), but I've not observed these events.
During the years we've been affiliated with Hyde we've enountered MANY instances where staff were emotionally abusive to students and parents. We've personally witnessed very aggressive confrontations, use of inappropriate language, and that sort of thing. We think some Hyde staff have shown a pattern of very inappropriate, unprofessional behavior, and that's why we're eager to separate ourselves from Hyde. One of the worst offenders is the founder, Joe Gauld. You can read lots of comments about him on this website.
When we first started at Hyde we believed in the model (or at least the model we THOUGHT Hyde uses). We've since learned so much about the school that deeply troubles us. That's why we no longer recommend Hyde and, in fact, actively discourage people from enrolling at Hyde. I should mention that this isn't sour grapes. We're not a family that has an "off track" kid (that's Hyde's term for a student who doesn't embrace the Hyde approach and doesn't measure up) or that has battled Hyde. In fact, we've been a very committed, compliant family. Our child is doing okay academically and hasn't gotten into any significant trouble at all.
We now know that Hyde is a TERRIBLE environment for us and many others -- educationally, emotionally, etc. -- especially if the child has any serious mental health issues. When we started at Hyde we didn't know about other schools that serve similar student populations. We now know so much more and regret that we chose Hyde. We're so happy we made the decision to head in a different direction, now that we know about some very impressive alternatives.
Good luck.
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Wow, thank you so much for the information!! Any OTHER schools you can recommend? After reading some of the things discussed on here about Hyde, and after what you just told me, I think Ill take your advice...Please share some other schools with a more upstanding reputation
-
In the Northeast section of the country ...
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On 2005-12-04 15:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hi, Im a parent that's looking into sending my 15 year old son to Hyde..Is there any PHYSICAL abuse at this school, please be honest, thanks in advance, Veronica"
What I witnessed at Hyde was probably considered physical neglect. Maybe some states would consider this physical abuse, I really don't know. The punishments of 2-4 could be considered physical abuse, but again I am not sure. There was also an incident of a top administrator choking a kid as well as another top administrator pinning a girl against the wall. I am sure if Childrens Services were brought in for both of these incidences, there would have been many questions about what is going on at this school. I know that both administrators are still in good standing at the school.
Because I don't know the laws of Conn and Maine it is hard to know the true definition of "physical abuse."
More importantly than the abuse is the fact that the school does not take incidences like the above seriously or take action against the perpetrators when it involves one of their old time personnel or family members. The schools "mind set" is what concerns me the most.
If you are asking this question because you are considering Hyde, I would carefully read all the posts on this website and then make your decision after speaking to a good and reputable Education Consultant.
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So, I gather, in essence, Hyde is NOT the school I would want my son in..thanks for the help guys :wave: If anyone could recommend a good school for my son, I d appreciate the information, you seem like a bunch of bright people! Thanks again
Veronica
C.T
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On 2005-12-04 15:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wow, thank you so much for the information!! Any OTHER schools you can recommend? After reading some of the things discussed on here about Hyde, and after what you just told me, I think Ill take your advice...Please share some other schools with a more upstanding reputation"
It's hard to recommend other schools without knowing more about your son and his unique challenges. (One of the big problems with Hyde is that they accept an unusually high percentage of applicants, many of whom are troubled kids with significant mental health, behavioral, and/or substance abuse issues. And, Hyde doesn't believe in employing professional mental health staff. Most of the other schools we've recently checked out are much more selective than Hyde and want to be sure they can meet the child's needs. At Hyde, they believe their model fits everyone who walks through the door.)
If your son is in the midst of significant crises, you'd have to look for a school that's equipped to deal with that (therapeutic boarding school, such as the Academy at Swift River: http://www.swiftriver.com/ (http://www.swiftriver.com/)). If he's functioning well, overall, an "emotional growth" boarding school may make sense.
Woodbury Reports (see the Struggling Teens website) provides a good overview of available schools: http://www.strugglingteens.com/ (http://www.strugglingteens.com/)
For boys, I've heard very good things about the White Mountain School in New Hampshire: http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/)
Also you may want to check out the Glenholme school in Conn. (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/ (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/)) and Carlbrook in Virginia: (http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/)).
Again, it's hard to say without knowing more about your child.
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He's just trying to find himself, he's not a bad kid, just a little misguided.He actually WANTS to get out of public school and try a new approach..This White Mountain School looks SUPERB!! Thanks for all of your help guys, you rock!
Veronica
P.S Sorry you had to find out the hard way that Hyde school was a corrupt cult like place, you deserve BETTER than that..You all seem very bright and intelligent :wink:
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On 2005-12-04 18:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"He's just trying to find himself, he's not a bad kid, just a little misguided.He actually WANTS to get out of public school and try a new approach..This White Mountain School looks SUPERB!! Thanks for all of your help guys, you rock!
Veronica
P.S Sorry you had to find out the hard way that Hyde school was a corrupt cult like place, you deserve BETTER than that..You all seem very bright and intelligent :wink: "
Another school that I've heard very good things about, for kids who don't exactly flourish in public schools and could use a very nurturing environment with structure, is Rock Point School in Vermont: http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/)
We know of two families that used to be at Hyde, became disillusioned with Hyde, and then went to Rock Point and loved it.
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On 2005-12-04 17:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 15:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wow, thank you so much for the information!! Any OTHER schools you can recommend? After reading some of the things discussed on here about Hyde, and after what you just told me, I think Ill take your advice...Please share some other schools with a more upstanding reputation"
It's hard to recommend other schools without knowing more about your son and his unique challenges. (One of the big problems with Hyde is that they accept an unusually high percentage of applicants, many of whom are troubled kids with significant mental health, behavioral, and/or substance abuse issues. And, Hyde doesn't believe in employing professional mental health staff. Most of the other schools we've recently checked out are much more selective than Hyde and want to be sure they can meet the child's needs. At Hyde, they believe their model fits everyone who walks through the door.)
If your son is in the midst of significant crises, you'd have to look for a school that's equipped to deal with that (therapeutic boarding school, such as the Academy at Swift River: http://www.swiftriver.com/ (http://www.swiftriver.com/)). If he's functioning well, overall, an "emotional growth" boarding school may make sense.
Woodbury Reports (see the Struggling Teens website) provides a good overview of available schools: http://www.strugglingteens.com/ (http://www.strugglingteens.com/)
For boys, I've heard very good things about the White Mountain School in New Hampshire: http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/)
Also you may want to check out the Glenholme school in Conn. (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/ (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/)) and Carlbrook in Virginia: (http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/)).
Again, it's hard to say without knowing more about your child.
"
I found it very interesting when I looked up the description of "Swiftriver" and then looked up the description of Hyde on Hyde's site.
Swiftriver is very honest and clear about what type of school they are "Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior,emotional issues, or academics."
On the other hand I see that Hyde is NOT clear in their description of the program/school. I do not see where they have a definitive plan on the type of student that fits into this type of school. Are they a college prep school? A therapuetic boarding school? A Character Based School with a high percentage of students who have severe problems including bulimia, suicidal tendencies, drug abuse, alchohol problems? What is Hyde?
In reading some of these posts I see where a high percentage of the students at Hyde have mental health issues. If this is the case then why would Hyde not mention this on their promotional materials?
My question is, what type of school is Hyde? I think this is what all potential and current parents should be asking themselves. If Hyde doesn't know what type of school they are and what type of kids they can help, then how can they be successful?
Please look below at what is posted on each website;
Swiftriver
The Academy at Swift River is a private college preparatory therapeutic boarding school located in western Massachusetts. Swift River fosters personal growth and healthy self-expression in adolescents, inspires academic excellence, and teaches individual responsibility and service to others.
Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior, emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hyde Promise
Hyde helps students learn, embrace, and adopt a character compass that will guide them for the rest of their lives. This compass has four points:
1. An explicit philosophy of character in the form of Five Words: Courage, Integrity, Leadership, Curiosity, and Concern;
2. The most dynamic student peer culture in American education;
3. A dedicated faculty that will go to the ends of the earth to help teenagers and families connect with their potentials;
4. The opportunity for parents, the primary teachers, and the entire family to participate and gain individual and collective strength.
Hyde?s Offer To All Families
We strive to offer every student and family what we call a top five experience of a lifetime.
Those of us who work at Hyde do so because we believe that the world would be a better place if everyone spent some time here. We will continually strive to ensure the legitimacy of this belief.
Hyde is a one-of-a-kind place where entire families grow together.
Hyde consistently places at least 96 percent of its graduates in four-year colleges. From academic preparation to actual college admission counseling, each student receives boundless personal attention.
emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
-
Another fine point, keep going, you are on a roll~!!
-
On 2005-12-04 18:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 17:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 15:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wow, thank you so much for the information!! Any OTHER schools you can recommend? After reading some of the things discussed on here about Hyde, and after what you just told me, I think Ill take your advice...Please share some other schools with a more upstanding reputation"
It's hard to recommend other schools without knowing more about your son and his unique challenges. (One of the big problems with Hyde is that they accept an unusually high percentage of applicants, many of whom are troubled kids with significant mental health, behavioral, and/or substance abuse issues. And, Hyde doesn't believe in employing professional mental health staff. Most of the other schools we've recently checked out are much more selective than Hyde and want to be sure they can meet the child's needs. At Hyde, they believe their model fits everyone who walks through the door.)
If your son is in the midst of significant crises, you'd have to look for a school that's equipped to deal with that (therapeutic boarding school, such as the Academy at Swift River: http://www.swiftriver.com/ (http://www.swiftriver.com/)). If he's functioning well, overall, an "emotional growth" boarding school may make sense.
Woodbury Reports (see the Struggling Teens website) provides a good overview of available schools: http://www.strugglingteens.com/ (http://www.strugglingteens.com/)
For boys, I've heard very good things about the White Mountain School in New Hampshire: http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/)
Also you may want to check out the Glenholme school in Conn. (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/ (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/)) and Carlbrook in Virginia: (http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/)).
Again, it's hard to say without knowing more about your child.
"
I found it very interesting when I looked up the description of "Swiftriver" and then looked up the description of Hyde on Hyde's site.
Swiftriver is very honest and clear about what type of school they are "Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior,emotional issues, or academics."
On the other hand I see that Hyde is NOT clear in their description of the program/school. I do not see where they have a definitive plan on the type of student that fits into this type of school. Are they a college prep school? A therapuetic boarding school? A Character Based School with a high percentage of students who have severe problems including bulimia, suicidal tendencies, drug abuse, alchohol problems? What is Hyde?
In reading some of these posts I see where a high percentage of the students at Hyde have mental health issues. If this is the case then why would Hyde not mention this on their promotional materials?
My question is, what type of school is Hyde? I think this is what all potential and current parents should be asking themselves. If Hyde doesn't know what type of school they are and what type of kids they can help, then how can they be successful?
Please look below at what is posted on each website;
Swiftriver
The Academy at Swift River is a private college preparatory therapeutic boarding school located in western Massachusetts. Swift River fosters personal growth and healthy self-expression in adolescents, inspires academic excellence, and teaches individual responsibility and service to others.
Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior, emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hyde Promise
Hyde helps students learn, embrace, and adopt a character compass that will guide them for the rest of their lives. This compass has four points:
1. An explicit philosophy of character in the form of Five Words: Courage, Integrity, Leadership, Curiosity, and Concern;
2. The most dynamic student peer culture in American education;
3. A dedicated faculty that will go to the ends of the earth to help teenagers and families connect with their potentials;
4. The opportunity for parents, the primary teachers, and the entire family to participate and gain individual and collective strength.
Hyde?s Offer To All Families
We strive to offer every student and family what we call a top five experience of a lifetime.
Those of us who work at Hyde do so because we believe that the world would be a better place if everyone spent some time here. We will continually strive to ensure the legitimacy of this belief.
Hyde is a one-of-a-kind place where entire families grow together.
Hyde consistently places at least 96 percent of its graduates in four-year colleges. From academic preparation to actual college admission counseling, each student receives boundless personal attention.
emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
"
You're exactly right. Hyde uses very vague rhetoric to describe its character-based mission. The reality, despite Hyde's slick PR, is that an enormous percentage of its students come with significant psychiatric, behavioral, and other struggles. That's a fact. As you said, Hyde doesn't acknowledge this honestly (despite Hyde's claim that it believes in truth as a character trait) -- more Hyde hypocrisy.
Isn't it remarkable that nearly all other schools that accept these kids acknowledge that honestly and forthrightly . . . and, these other schools employ staff with the training to deal with these kids' issues. Hyde, on the other hand, maintains that its focus on attitude and character will cure all ills. Is it any wonder that so many people leave Hyde and that so few kids who start at Hyde ever graduate from the school? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why Hyde's reputation is so poor outside of the inner circle of Hyde families that hang on.
Recently I heard a Hyde administrator talk about enrollment issues and Hyde administrators' concern about clarifying Hyde's image and mission, since parents of struggling teens have so many choices. I think Hyde knows it has a MAJOR image problem and they're scrambling to figure out how to handle it.
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Another fine point, yet again..Hyde is a CULT, That, my friends, is the bottom line. They preach honesty, yet lie by omission FREQUENTLY..How corrupt can one place get?
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You are one very bitter person...
Maybe you should sign on to one of those theraputic schools...
From the sound of all your posts, and I can defintely tell which ones are yours...
you sound like you have so much anger and hostility....that just isn't healthy...
Take a chill pill!!! (to use a phrase form the 80's)
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On 2005-12-05 06:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You are one very bitter person...
Maybe you should sign on to one of those theraputic schools...
From the sound of all your posts, and I can defintely tell which ones are yours...
you sound like you have so much anger and hostility....that just isn't healthy...
Take a chill pill!!! (to use a phrase form the 80's)"
It's not clear to whom you're referring. Who's the bitter person?
-
On 2005-12-04 18:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 17:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 15:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wow, thank you so much for the information!! Any OTHER schools you can recommend? After reading some of the things discussed on here about Hyde, and after what you just told me, I think Ill take your advice...Please share some other schools with a more upstanding reputation"
It's hard to recommend other schools without knowing more about your son and his unique challenges. (One of the big problems with Hyde is that they accept an unusually high percentage of applicants, many of whom are troubled kids with significant mental health, behavioral, and/or substance abuse issues. And, Hyde doesn't believe in employing professional mental health staff. Most of the other schools we've recently checked out are much more selective than Hyde and want to be sure they can meet the child's needs. At Hyde, they believe their model fits everyone who walks through the door.)
If your son is in the midst of significant crises, you'd have to look for a school that's equipped to deal with that (therapeutic boarding school, such as the Academy at Swift River: http://www.swiftriver.com/ (http://www.swiftriver.com/)). If he's functioning well, overall, an "emotional growth" boarding school may make sense.
Woodbury Reports (see the Struggling Teens website) provides a good overview of available schools: http://www.strugglingteens.com/ (http://www.strugglingteens.com/)
For boys, I've heard very good things about the White Mountain School in New Hampshire: http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/)
Also you may want to check out the Glenholme school in Conn. (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/ (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/)) and Carlbrook in Virginia: (http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/)).
Again, it's hard to say without knowing more about your child.
"
I found it very interesting when I looked up the description of "Swiftriver" and then looked up the description of Hyde on Hyde's site.
Swiftriver is very honest and clear about what type of school they are "Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior,emotional issues, or academics."
On the other hand I see that Hyde is NOT clear in their description of the program/school. I do not see where they have a definitive plan on the type of student that fits into this type of school. Are they a college prep school? A therapuetic boarding school? A Character Based School with a high percentage of students who have severe problems including bulimia, suicidal tendencies, drug abuse, alchohol problems? What is Hyde?
In reading some of these posts I see where a high percentage of the students at Hyde have mental health issues. If this is the case then why would Hyde not mention this on their promotional materials?
My question is, what type of school is Hyde? I think this is what all potential and current parents should be asking themselves. If Hyde doesn't know what type of school they are and what type of kids they can help, then how can they be successful?
Please look below at what is posted on each website;
Swiftriver
The Academy at Swift River is a private college preparatory therapeutic boarding school located in western Massachusetts. Swift River fosters personal growth and healthy self-expression in adolescents, inspires academic excellence, and teaches individual responsibility and service to others.
Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior, emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hyde Promise
Hyde helps students learn, embrace, and adopt a character compass that will guide them for the rest of their lives. This compass has four points:
1. An explicit philosophy of character in the form of Five Words: Courage, Integrity, Leadership, Curiosity, and Concern;
2. The most dynamic student peer culture in American education;
3. A dedicated faculty that will go to the ends of the earth to help teenagers and families connect with their potentials;
4. The opportunity for parents, the primary teachers, and the entire family to participate and gain individual and collective strength.
Hyde?s Offer To All Families
We strive to offer every student and family what we call a top five experience of a lifetime.
Those of us who work at Hyde do so because we believe that the world would be a better place if everyone spent some time here. We will continually strive to ensure the legitimacy of this belief.
Hyde is a one-of-a-kind place where entire families grow together.
Hyde consistently places at least 96 percent of its graduates in four-year colleges. From academic preparation to actual college admission counseling, each student receives boundless personal attention.
emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
"
Here's another key problem with Hyde's model. The Hyde website says that historically about seventy (70) percent of Hyde's students are "turnaround students" who are "performing poorly in school, behaving badly, or both." Also, "some of these kids have been diagnosed with a veritable alphabet soup of diagnoses."
As anyone who has spent considerable time at Hyde knows full well, a VERY significant percentage of Hyde students arrive with moderately or very serious mental health issues (I'd bet money Hyde's use of the term "some" is a major understatement when it refers to the percentage of Hyde students who have been diagnosed with mental health problems.). For many, that's exactly why they are performing poorly in school and/or behaving badly. Sure, some of these kids primarily have an 'attitude' problem for which Hyde's approach may be effective. But to pretend that the kids' mental health issues shouldn't be a major component of the kids' Hyde experience seems bizarre indeed. Hyde has no formal mental health component whatsoever which, of course, is why so many of the Hyde kids struggle there and leave before full-fledged graduation.
I'd like to know the answer to this question: What percentage of these "turnaround" Hyde students (the vast majority of Hyde students) make it through Hyde and graduate with a full diploma?
-
On 2005-12-05 08:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 18:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 17:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 15:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wow, thank you so much for the information!! Any OTHER schools you can recommend? After reading some of the things discussed on here about Hyde, and after what you just told me, I think Ill take your advice...Please share some other schools with a more upstanding reputation"
It's hard to recommend other schools without knowing more about your son and his unique challenges. (One of the big problems with Hyde is that they accept an unusually high percentage of applicants, many of whom are troubled kids with significant mental health, behavioral, and/or substance abuse issues. And, Hyde doesn't believe in employing professional mental health staff. Most of the other schools we've recently checked out are much more selective than Hyde and want to be sure they can meet the child's needs. At Hyde, they believe their model fits everyone who walks through the door.)
If your son is in the midst of significant crises, you'd have to look for a school that's equipped to deal with that (therapeutic boarding school, such as the Academy at Swift River: http://www.swiftriver.com/ (http://www.swiftriver.com/)). If he's functioning well, overall, an "emotional growth" boarding school may make sense.
Woodbury Reports (see the Struggling Teens website) provides a good overview of available schools: http://www.strugglingteens.com/ (http://www.strugglingteens.com/)
For boys, I've heard very good things about the White Mountain School in New Hampshire: http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/)
Also you may want to check out the Glenholme school in Conn. (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/ (http://www.theglenholmeschool.org/)) and Carlbrook in Virginia: (http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/)).
Again, it's hard to say without knowing more about your child.
"
I found it very interesting when I looked up the description of "Swiftriver" and then looked up the description of Hyde on Hyde's site.
Swiftriver is very honest and clear about what type of school they are "Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior,emotional issues, or academics."
On the other hand I see that Hyde is NOT clear in their description of the program/school. I do not see where they have a definitive plan on the type of student that fits into this type of school. Are they a college prep school? A therapuetic boarding school? A Character Based School with a high percentage of students who have severe problems including bulimia, suicidal tendencies, drug abuse, alchohol problems? What is Hyde?
In reading some of these posts I see where a high percentage of the students at Hyde have mental health issues. If this is the case then why would Hyde not mention this on their promotional materials?
My question is, what type of school is Hyde? I think this is what all potential and current parents should be asking themselves. If Hyde doesn't know what type of school they are and what type of kids they can help, then how can they be successful?
Please look below at what is posted on each website;
Swiftriver
The Academy at Swift River is a private college preparatory therapeutic boarding school located in western Massachusetts. Swift River fosters personal growth and healthy self-expression in adolescents, inspires academic excellence, and teaches individual responsibility and service to others.
Therapeutic boarding schools specialize in educating troubled teens struggling with behavior, emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hyde Promise
Hyde helps students learn, embrace, and adopt a character compass that will guide them for the rest of their lives. This compass has four points:
1. An explicit philosophy of character in the form of Five Words: Courage, Integrity, Leadership, Curiosity, and Concern;
2. The most dynamic student peer culture in American education;
3. A dedicated faculty that will go to the ends of the earth to help teenagers and families connect with their potentials;
4. The opportunity for parents, the primary teachers, and the entire family to participate and gain individual and collective strength.
Hyde?s Offer To All Families
We strive to offer every student and family what we call a top five experience of a lifetime.
Those of us who work at Hyde do so because we believe that the world would be a better place if everyone spent some time here. We will continually strive to ensure the legitimacy of this belief.
Hyde is a one-of-a-kind place where entire families grow together.
Hyde consistently places at least 96 percent of its graduates in four-year colleges. From academic preparation to actual college admission counseling, each student receives boundless personal attention.
emotional issues, or academics. Boarding schools that specialize in troubled teens offer these teens the opportunity to focus on school and receive individualized attention.
"
Here's another key problem with Hyde's model. The Hyde website says that historically about seventy (70) percent of Hyde's students are "turnaround students" who are "performing poorly in school, behaving badly, or both." Also, "some of these kids have been diagnosed with a veritable alphabet soup of diagnoses."
As anyone who has spent considerable time at Hyde knows full well, a VERY significant percentage of Hyde students arrive with moderately or very serious mental health issues (I'd bet money Hyde's use of the term "some" is a major understatement when it refers to the percentage of Hyde students who have been diagnosed with mental health problems.). For many, that's exactly why they are performing poorly in school and/or behaving badly. Sure, some of these kids primarily have an 'attitude' problem for which Hyde's approach may be effective. But to pretend that the kids' mental health issues shouldn't be a major component of the kids' Hyde experience seems bizarre indeed. Hyde has no formal mental health component whatsoever which, of course, is why so many of the Hyde kids struggle there and leave before full-fledged graduation.
I'd like to know the answer to this question: What percentage of these "turnaround" Hyde students (the vast majority of Hyde students) make it through Hyde and graduate with a full diploma? "
I'd also like to know: What percentage of the Hyde students who graduate with a full diploma are "turnaround" students v. others (for example, children of Hyde staff members, siblings of former Hyde students)?
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These are good questions! Something that always bothered me with Hyde is that not only do they accept kids with all of the problems that have been mentioned here, they also accept kids who simply have motivation problems. Some of the kids who I am referring to are good kids, from good families and simply need some structure and attention.
Because Hyde does not fully disclose what type of kids are at the school, these other basically good kids end up being put in an environment that is far more damaging then you can imagine. It's like taking a kid from Beverly Hills, putting them in Harlem and saying, "this is your new life and you will be exposed to people and things you never have before but get used to it and welcome to HELL."
Something that hasn't been said here yet is that Hyde is NOT for a teen who is basically good, but lacks motivation! A child like this needs to be in a good nurturing environment and Hyde is far from that!
Hyde might be good for some, but PLEASE< PLEASE< PLEASE be careful not to expose your child to Hyde's drastic ways. To me, the type of student who would fit into Hyde would be one who is a bad kid with no discipline but does not have any mental disorders
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Instead of using the term, "bad kid" I should have said "a teen who is out of control." I apologize for this mistake.
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I truley feel that Hyde is monitoring this messae board :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
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On 2005-12-05 12:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I truley feel that Hyde is monitoring this messae board :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: "
Who cares if they are monitoring this board? Maybe they will see that there are MANY unhappy students and parents. It reminds me of writing the letters to a person in your life that you have something to say to, but not sending it. Instead we read it outloud and then gave feedback. We were supposed to learn something from this process. Maybe Hyde will learn something from all the comments that are on this board, and maybe they will try to be better people, and a better school. Maybe this is asking for too much, but it sure would be nice if they would take note of some of this honest feedback. Hyde needs to practice what they teach, especially HONESTY!
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On 2005-12-05 12:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I truley feel that Hyde is monitoring this messae board :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: "
I'm not at all concerned that Hyde staff may be monitoring this website. I think this kind of discussion should be out in the open for the benefit of parents looking for programs, educational consultants, Hyde staff, and other interested parties. I don't think Hyde's monitoring of this site is a problem at all. My hope is that the postings will be thoughtful, constructive, and fair. If Hyde staff read these and choose to reject the opinions, that's their choice. If they read these and make appropriate changes as a result, that's fine too. (I'm not optimistic that Hyde will make fundamental changes.) I feel strongly that parents and educational consultants should be aware of these diverse points of view and decide whether they're relevant and helpful. I would hope Hyde wouldn't want to stifle the discussion.
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On 2005-12-05 15:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-05 12:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I truley feel that Hyde is monitoring this messae board :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: "
I'm not at all concerned that Hyde staff may be monitoring this website. I think this kind of discussion should be out in the open for the benefit of parents looking for programs, educational consultants, Hyde staff, and other interested parties. I don't think Hyde's monitoring of this site is a problem at all. My hope is that the postings will be thoughtful, constructive, and fair. If Hyde staff read these and choose to reject the opinions, that's their choice. If they read these and make appropriate changes as a result, that's fine too. (I'm not optimistic that Hyde will make fundamental changes.) I feel strongly that parents and educational consultants should be aware of these diverse points of view and decide whether they're relevant and helpful. I would hope Hyde wouldn't want to stifle the discussion."
They ARE looking at it. Have a look at the post I started this thread with. Just say what you want, and say it from the heart. You can't expect them to engage in any sort of real dialogue about this stuff. As another poster mentioned, it's a no win situation for them. It appears that a few Hyde staff members have attempted to get in on it, but they're discovering that saying things like, "this link is a cesspool" gets them called on their hypocrisy and essentially blasted off the board. They're used to controlling desperate families and can't handle a setting like this.
I've posted here to get some things off my chest and if some prospective parents decide to look elsewhere because of it, oh well...[ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-06 08:05 ]
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On 2005-12-06 08:03:00, Lars wrote:
"
On 2005-12-05 15:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-05 12:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I truley feel that Hyde is monitoring this messae board :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: "
I'm not at all concerned that Hyde staff may be monitoring this website. I think this kind of discussion should be out in the open for the benefit of parents looking for programs, educational consultants, Hyde staff, and other interested parties. I don't think Hyde's monitoring of this site is a problem at all. My hope is that the postings will be thoughtful, constructive, and fair. If Hyde staff read these and choose to reject the opinions, that's their choice. If they read these and make appropriate changes as a result, that's fine too. (I'm not optimistic that Hyde will make fundamental changes.) I feel strongly that parents and educational consultants should be aware of these diverse points of view and decide whether they're relevant and helpful. I would hope Hyde wouldn't want to stifle the discussion."
They ARE looking at it. Have a look at the post I started this thread with. Just say what you want, and say it from the heart. You can't expect them to engage in any sort of real dialogue about this stuff. As another poster mentioned, it's a no win situation for them. It appears that a few Hyde staff members have attempted to get in on it, but they're discovering that saying things like, "this link is a cesspool" gets them called on their hypocrisy and essentially blasted off the board. They're used to controlling desperate families and can't handle a setting like this.
I've posted here to get some things off my chest and if some prospective parents decide to look elsewhere because of it, oh well...[ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-06 08:05 ]"
In fact, just two days ago I got an email message from a parent who was considering Hyde, found out about this website, apparently read many of the postings, and decided as a result to avoid Hyde completely. (This parent posted an email message on another website asking for information about Hyde. I sent him/her the link to this website and then got a reply informing me that because of this website the parents have decided Hyde is not likely to be a healthy environment for their child or for them.)
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I think it is great that this board exists. When I was looking at schools, (my child did not need a "program") I looked all over the web trying to find information about Hyde other than the promotional materials provided. I only wish I had been able to see some of these informative comments in order to then weigh the good and the bad and make the right decision.
I thought I was being thorough by contacting a few of the alumni who provided their addresses on the Hyde Bulletin Board. My Ed Consultant warned me that the only people who would provide their names and addresses would be those who were satisfied with the school and to not base my decision on this. I did not listen to her, (I was desperate to hear positive comments) and as it turned out she was right.
The former students and parents I spoke to and emailed from the bulletin board all talked the same "lingo" and at the time I thought this was wonderful. I admit I was completely naive and my poor child is the one who had to pay the price. To this day I apologize to my son for being sucked in and placing him in a program that was not appropriate for his lack of motivation.
I would like to say to all these angry former students, please understand that we as parents sometimes think we are doing the right thing and it turns out wrong. Parents can and are wrong at times, but we need to learn and grow just like you do. I think that many parents have a hard time admitting they made a mistake, but in my case I have no problem saying that I was wrong, I got sucked in, I put my child in a horrible place, and I feel ashamed to the point where I never talk about Hyde other than on this board.
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On 2005-12-06 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think it is great that this board exists. When I was looking at schools, (my child did not need a "program") I looked all over the web trying to find information about Hyde other than the promotional materials provided. I only wish I had been able to see some of these informative comments in order to then weigh the good and the bad and make the right decision.
I thought I was being thorough by contacting a few of the alumni who provided their addresses on the Hyde Bulletin Board. My Ed Consultant warned me that the only people who would provide their names and addresses would be those who were satisfied with the school and to not base my decision on this. I did not listen to her, (I was desperate to hear positive comments) and as it turned out she was right.
The former students and parents I spoke to and emailed from the bulletin board all talked the same "lingo" and at the time I thought this was wonderful. I admit I was completely naive and my poor child is the one who had to pay the price. To this day I apologize to my son for being sucked in and placing him in a program that was not appropriate for his lack of motivation.
I would like to say to all these angry former students, please understand that we as parents sometimes think we are doing the right thing and it turns out wrong. Parents can and are wrong at times, but we need to learn and grow just like you do. I think that many parents have a hard time admitting they made a mistake, but in my case I have no problem saying that I was wrong, I got sucked in, I put my child in a horrible place, and I feel ashamed to the point where I never talk about Hyde other than on this board."
Thank you so much for your heartfelt comments. Your experience with Hyde is so similar to ours. We too talked with several alumni parents before applying; all of them used the same Hyde jargon, but we didn't know enough at the time to realize that was a red flag. Like you, we got seduced by all the enthusiasm; we believed what we wanted to believe. Also like you, our child did not need a heavy duty therapeutic program.
We too discovered over time that Hyde was a TERRIBLE environment for our entire family. We witnessed so much inappropriate behavior by staff that we knew, after about 6 months, that we had to look for an alternative. We too have apologized to our child. Fortunately our child is now doing extremely well (and there's no way in the world Hyde should take ANY credit for that - there's no question whatsoever it's the new school that turned things around. We've had to work hard to undo the damage Hyde did.).
Now that we've seen how another school handles similar kids, we are kicking ourselves that we ever went to Hyde. But, as you say, all of us can learn from these experiences. Maybe this website will help other parents avoid the huge mistake we made when we enrolled at Hyde.
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Bright people realize you are all cowards for hiding behind your anonymity! Grow some cahonies and stand behind your convictions!
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On 2005-12-06 17:24:00, Ed Davis wrote:
"Bright people realize you are all cowards for hiding behind your anonymity! Grow some cahonies and stand behind your convictions! "
Come on Ed, 3 posts, why cant you contribute something? You read some of the past posts (take some time) get to know some of the people here, then start contributing. Any 2 year old can say "Whats your name!!"
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On 2005-12-06 17:24:00, Ed Davis wrote:
"Bright people realize you are all cowards for hiding behind your anonymity! Grow some cahonies and stand behind your convictions! "
To parents considering Hyde: This and other messages posted today by Ed Davis are remarkably typical of what you can expect if you enroll at Hyde. Notice the intensely judgmental language in his messages, the crude accusations, and the "in your face" approach to dealing with other people. In my experience, there's a steady diet of that sort of behavior among many people at Hyde (although not all people at Hyde).
Mr. Davis: I can assure you I'm not a Hyde student. I'm a parent. I have chosen to remain anonymous because I've witnessed too many instances where parents who have spoken openly and critically about Hyde were verbally abused and, in turn, their kids were harrassed. Unfortunately, being open at Hyde sometimes is too risky. That's not a lack of courage; rather, it's good reality testing.
I'm glad to know that you had a good experience at Hyde. However, if you read the postings on this website you will discover that there are many people, including former Hyde students and parents, who believe Hyde was a horribly destructive environment.
It seems to me that if you had truly matured at Hyde you would not use the kind of abusive language and tone that fill your posting. Ironically, you have just reinforced what many people on this website have been saying about how damaging the Hyde environment can be. The irony is terribly poignant.
I accept that you are likely to disagree with me. I would prefer that you do so respectfully.
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On 2005-12-06 17:24:00, Ed Davis wrote:
"Bright people realize you are all cowards for hiding behind your anonymity! Grow some cahonies and stand behind your convictions! "
The "coward" thing is getting old, Ed. People have good reasons for maintaining their privacy that have nothing to do with "courage."
I stand behind my convictions. Tell me I'm a coward. I don't think you will. I got the cojones grandes, hijo.
And try to keep your comments civil on this board. This is a serious discussion, not a flamethrowing contest.
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The ony cesspool here is HYDE! What a terrible "school" ....
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Why does Hyde monitor this board anyway? What can they get from it?
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You know, The more that these staff members or supporters post on this link, the more they are proving the things we have been stating about Hyde , more and more! The people ( I included ) that recommend another school seem like THE ONLY rational people here!
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Why DOES Hyde monitor this board? Great question..
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what year was Hyde School founded?
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On 2005-12-07 14:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"what year was Hyde School founded?"
1966.Life may have no meaning. Or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove.
Ashleigh Brilliant
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Tommy, what years did you spend in the great Hyde School?
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I can assure you that NOBODY at Hyde School is interested in this little fruitless board..Don't flatter yourselves.
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On 2005-12-08 15:41:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:
"I can assure you that NOBODY at Hyde School is interested in this little fruitless board..Don't flatter yourselves."
Don't kid yourself. Your client is quite concerned that their abusive practices are coming to light. They even had someone contact me when they figured out who I am.
A question for you. Are you retained by them to advise them on business/tax related issues or to assist in litigation? Just curious. As a fellow attorney, I understand if that's something you can't disclose.[ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-08 15:47 ]
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A fellow attorney? Right... Anyway, the bottom line is that Hyde is a GREAT school, that brings in troubled youth's in the door, and return them to society as mature, respectable, young adults.
Goldstein, Rubin, Simanelli L.L.C
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On 2005-12-08 15:58:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:
"A fellow attorney? Right... Anyway, the bottom line is that Hyde is a GREAT school, that brings in troubled youth's in the door, and return them to society as mature, respectable, young adults.
Goldstein, Rubin, Simanelli L.L.C"
Now who's failing to act like an attorney should? Forget about civility and professionalism towards one's colleagues, eh? I should have guessed that the folks in Bath would hire bottom feeders to represent them.
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Try and handle yourself like a respectable adult Lars, please..Im being nothing but nice over here. Just because we have differing views and opinions, doesn't mean you have to get your panties in a twist.
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On 2005-12-08 16:17:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:
"Try and handle yourself like a respectable adult Lars, please..Im being nothing but nice over here. Just because we have differing views and opinions, doesn't mean you have to get your panties in a twist."
You're not being nice. You're trying to provoke people. And you're the one who made a nasty comment about me to begin with (A fellow attorney...right). So please, be civil and stop trying to pretend that you're just a good guy giving his two cents. Your client's abusive practices hurt people who are expressing their heartfelt opinons here.
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Ok, I am sorry if I offended anyone. And sorry Larry if I offended you as well. I will deal with my feelings in a more civil manner in the future.
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On 2005-12-08 16:29:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:
"Ok, I am sorry if I offended anyone. And sorry Larry if I offended you as well. I will deal with my feelings in a more civil manner in the future."
Thank you. Just curious, did you read all the posts or did the folks at Hyde give you my real name?
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Mr. Gould informed me, may I ask why you are asking?
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Just curious. Which Gauld, Joe or Malcolm?
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I'll answer that the minute you answer my previous question..
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On 2005-12-08 16:39:00, Lars wrote:
"Just curious. Which Gauld, Joe or Malcolm?"
It was Joe Gauld, but why are you so paranoid sir?
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It's not paranoia, I'm just curious. I find it interesting, because Joe's not the kind of guy to take criticism of his baby well, or at least he wasn't back when I went there
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On 2005-12-08 16:48:00, Lars wrote:
"It's not paranoia, I'm just curious. I find it interesting, because Joe's not the kind of guy to take criticism of his baby well, or at least he wasn't back when I went there"
Well, from what I see, you are a very nice guy with a solid head on his shoulders, you take care, and Ill be back soon...
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I'm sure you will. Try to put your client's mind at ease, the internet's not all powerful in the marketplace of ideas, right? Take care.
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what the hell is this lawyer guy doing on the board?
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On 2005-12-08 17:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"what the hell is this lawyer guy doing on the board?"
A good question. You don't put your lawyer to work at whatever they're charging per hour because "no one at Hyde cares what's on the board." I'm sure the Hyde people would love to to shut this site down, but unfortunately for them, the first amendment is actually in effect outside the walls of Hyde. They may not be well versed in first amendment issues, but any lawyer worth a damn will tell them that there's not a thing they do about discussions like this. Maybe there's ongoing litigation and they're trying to provoke someone who's suing them into saying something they can use against them in court. Who knows? I wouldn't be too concerned about it.
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Lars,
Do you really think this guy "Hyde's Attorney" is really in the field of law? He speaks more like someone who has had to repeat a couple of grades at Hyde and is probably a construction worker! I don't buy it at all because a true attorney would not represent himself as "Hyde's Attorney." I assume it is against the law in most states to represent yourself as an attorney when you are not, correct?
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On 2005-12-08 17:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"what the hell is this lawyer guy doing on the board?"
I wouldn't worry too much about this guy who says he is "Hyde's attorney." I seriously doubt this to be true.
I don't think any of us are interested in name calling so let's get back to what we were discussing which is the pro's and cons of Hyde. Seems that the defenders of Hyde do nothing but throw insults and make themselves look like fools. Best to ignore them unless they have something relevant to say.
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On 2005-12-08 17:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Lars,
Do you really think this guy "Hyde's Attorney" is really in the field of law? He speaks more like someone who has had to repeat a couple of grades at Hyde and is probably a construction worker! I don't buy it at all because a true attorney would not represent himself as "Hyde's Attorney." I assume it is against the law in most states to represent yourself as an attorney when you are not, correct?"
To answer your question, it's illegal to PRACTICE law if you're not a licensed attorney. As for lying about it, lying itself is not illegal except under certain circumstances. For example, if you tell someone you're a lawyer in order to get them to give you money, that's fraud (A class 2 felony carrying 4 to 10 years out where I practice). Or lying in court regarding an issue material to the litgation, etc.
It may well be their lawyer. If he (or she) is, there's nothing wrong saying so. People get nervous dealing with attorneys and maybe they think it will scare some people off. Also, not all lawyers write like I do. :wink: Or, they figure it's the internet, it's not like they're trying to convince a judge to rule in their favor on a motion, so why worry if it doesn't sound smooth?
If you practice law for a few years not much will suprise you.
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Larry, (Lars) is there a way to find out how many lawsuits Hyde has had against them or would only the ones that went to trial be available for public view? Would be interesting to know this as I find it hard to believe there have not been tons of suits against them with the way they operate.
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Mom always said "If you don't know what you want to be in life, be a lawyer" , aint that the truth ::bangin::
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On 2005-12-08 18:03:00, Lars wrote:
"
On 2005-12-08 17:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Lars,
Do you really think this guy "Hyde's Attorney" is really in the field of law? He speaks more like someone who has had to repeat a couple of grades at Hyde and is probably a construction worker! I don't buy it at all because a true attorney would not represent himself as "Hyde's Attorney." I assume it is against the law in most states to represent yourself as an attorney when you are not, correct?"
To answer your question, it's illegal to PRACTICE law if you're not a licensed attorney. As for lying about it, lying itself is not illegal except under certain circumstances. For example, if you tell someone you're a lawyer in order to get them to give you money, that's fraud (A class 2 felony carrying 4 to 10 years out where I practice). Or lying in court regarding an issue material to the litgation, etc.
It may well be their lawyer. If he (or she) is, there's nothing wrong saying so. People get nervous dealing with attorneys and maybe they think it will scare some people off. Also, not all lawyers write like I do. :wink: Or, they figure it's the internet, it's not like they're trying to convince a judge to rule in their favor on a motion, so why worry if it doesn't sound smooth?
If you practice law for a few years not much will suprise you.
"
I'd be willing to bet considerable money that "Hyde's Lawyer" is not a lawyer. I suspect this is a silly hoax. I'd ignore those postings (which, by the way, are very poorly written).
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What was poorly written? Its a goddamn Hyde board for christ's sakes..Im sure he's not too concerned about his grammer, get a grip on reality :lol: :lol: :lol:
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On 2005-12-08 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What was poorly written? Its a goddamn Hyde board for christ's sakes..Im sure he's not too concerned about his grammer, get a grip on reality :lol: :lol: :lol: "
My suggestion is to ignore these immature, disruptive people who have recently joined the board. It is obvious what they are trying to do and it is best not to respond to them from this moment forward.
Lars, keep up the good work. You have a lot of valuable feedback to give and I for one appreciate it.
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You must have gotten no, I mean absolutely no pussy at all growing up
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Alright buddy, can you knock the negative crap off already, you have the right to say how you feel, but come on, you are a little out of hand now..please...
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On 2005-12-08 18:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Larry, (Lars) is there a way to find out how many lawsuits Hyde has had against them or would only the ones that went to trial be available for public view? Would be interesting to know this as I find it hard to believe there have not been tons of suits against them with the way they operate."
Any suits actually filed against them would be public record. The places to look would be with the clerk of the superior court of the county they're in. Or United States District Court for the District of Maine.
Of course, many legal claims get settled without actual litigation. This is especially true in automobile cases. Other types, such as those involving malpractice claims against doctors and hospitals almost always get thoroughly litigated because the insurance companies know how hard it is for the plaintiff to prevail, no matter how meritorious the claim. Also, many settlements include confidentiality agreements wherein the parties agree not to divulge the amount paid out.
You may not find much, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't had legal problems. To be honest I really don't care whether they've had significant legal issues or not. I'm not here for schaudenfreude, just to tell things like I see 'em.
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I can't beleive that the thread about this "Lawyer" is so long...It's obvious that he's not an attorney....This board is spreading some negativity about Hyde, but not enough to take legal action...this forum is a handful of "get-a-lifers" who need to vent...and that's it...move on for gosh sake!
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On 2005-12-09 05:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I can't beleive that the thread about this "Lawyer" is so long...It's obvious that he's not an attorney....This board is spreading some negativity about Hyde, but not enough to take legal action...this forum is a handful of "get-a-lifers" who need to vent...and that's it...move on for gosh sake!"
Move on yourself. Don't stick around if yu're not interested. You won't be missed.
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Oh, you'll miss me..I'm one of the only sane people on this site...Get an existance!
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Kill yourself :lol:
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nice, very nice!
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On 2005-12-09 08:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Kill yourself :lol: "
I have to admit, that is funny!
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On 2005-12-08 15:02:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:
"Tommy, what years did you spend in the great Hyde School?"
Less than a year. I was sent in the middle of Summer School in Aug. 1976 and then ran away Jan. 1977 when it was pretty clear that I'd be put on 2-4.There is no devil and no hell. Thy soul will be dead even sooner than thy body: fear therefore nothing any more.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher