Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: hollyhawk on November 28, 2005, 08:28:00 PM
-
My 17-year-old daughter (let's call her Hope)is in severe crisis on many levels and my ex-husband and I are trying to find help for her. Hope's a senior in high school. She's very bright and ambitious, intending to go to a good college in the fall. However, over the summer, Hope became addicted to meth and also became bulimic and anorexic. Before that, she was drinking. Hope would get so drunk and abusive that her close circle of friends dropped her. She started hanging out with druggies and lowlifes, sneaking out at night, using, and sleeping around. Although Hope has been seeing a psychiatrist for depression, anxiety, and paranoia, I discovered that she wasn't taking her medications at all. Her grades up until summer were honor roll caliber and most of her classes were Advanced Placement. This fall Hope's school attendance dropped drastically, often because she couldn't get up in the morning due to drug withdrawal. Now she's getting C's, D's & F's, mostly due to poor attendance and zero ambition. She tells lies constantly. I know this because I have the password to her online journals, and know what she's really doing. I also know how desperately Hope has tried to stop using, but slips back because of addiction not helped by her bad-influence friends. She has considered suicide and sometimes cuts herself. As her mom, I am horrified at her dramatic decline, but she has nothing but contempt for me, and under the influence, has even beat me up on 4 occasions. Twice I had to call the police. She defies even the simplest rules at home. I admit to being a lax disciplinarian, but my mellow live-and-let-live attitude is NOT helping my daughter. At the moment, she's at a local hospital on 72-hour-hold. Obviously, Hope is out of control and self-destructive! Today my ex and I visited the hopital social worker, who praised Provo Canyon School to the skies. At first blush, it sounded wonderful. (We're in Los Angeles, by the way.) But now that I have read alot of the horrific stuff written about PCS online, it sounds like a snake pit I wouldn't even send a snake to. Now, the complaints COULD be from a bunch of whining malcontents with an axe to grind, but somehow, I don't think so. Therefore my question remains: is there a suitable residential place with a truly good reputation?!!!! I am open to suggestions, everyone.
-
Congratulations on checking these facilities out. Many of us parents failed to do so properly, and our children wound up worse off, if you can begin to imagine that. I have no advice for a "good" facility--but caution you to be aware, please. Our daughter was abused at the so-called school we were referred to, and we are now involved in a criminal trial against the owner. I am so sorry for the problems you are having, but placing your daughter in an abusive situation can only make matter worse for your entire family.
-
http://www.fornits.baremetal.com/wwf/vi ... 4&forum=11 (http://www.fornits.baremetal.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12344&forum=11)
Son of Serbia mentions a few schools in Vermont. I myself can't vouch for them because I've never been there, but it's a start.
-
Thank you for investigating Provo Canyon School.
PCS does NOT provide a theraputic environment, contrary to what they may say.
It sounds like your daughter has some problems, and I know you must be terrified. PCS (and, it seems, many other programs) doesn't help anyone with their "issues" or "problems". Instead it serves like a punishment- the kid gets sent there, and, out of sheer terror and for the purposes of survival, may begin acting more subdued and complacent, and eventually leave the program.
Then what? The kid has not learned any skills useful in real life. (except maybe how to clean a bathroom). Most of the time, they have not even addressed the real issues causing their behavior- because PCS is not a reality-based program.
You daughter is going through a vulnerable time, and what she needs is not a "punishment", but maybe some constructive, professional assistance.
Or you could just wait and let her work it out herself- however painful that may be.
I'm sorry I cannot provide more information about alternatives. The only other thing I could mention is traditional boarding school- I also attended one of those, and it was great!
Good luck. Please email me if you have any further questions.
-
I am a program graduate and am more that willing to offer an non-bias perspective of the pro's and con's of programs. I will say that the program did entirely change my life, and that I am now an extremely sucessful individual. If you would like to speak respond with an e-mail adress.
-
I just found this forum yesterday ... It's 5am and I haven't slept all night. I've been reading this forum and it's brought back memories... the horrible ones and the good ones.
I implore you to read my full thread (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12812&forum=44) and to private message me here. If I understand the timeline correctly your daughter will be soon released from the hospital and you will have to decide what to do.
I want to you contact me here via private message. I want to give you my phone number and speak to you personally about my experiences in the WWASPS Samoa program (which was shut down due to abuse).
I want to make it clear that while I was never physically abused, the emotional toll of the event is still felt. While initially (and for about 5 years) I had mixed feelings about the program, I will now say that it was nothing more than additional trauma in that troubled time in my past, and I will always remember it as time that was stolen from me.
I'm not famaliar with the particular program you speak of, but if it anything like what I (and others here) went through ... it just makes my heart sink!
I was in as a teenager. I'm now almost 26, living my own life, but I'm just beginning to deal with the emotional scars left from the experience, and it's totally destroyed my family. I know that even as I quickly approach 30, it's an experience I'll never forget, and it was as unpositive as anything you can imagine. It'll stick with me for the rest of my life too.
It's hard to imagine, but I've not slept properly now for something like 8 years, and I didn't sleep well before the program. My mind is always racing, and it's hard to explain. I sometimes overanalyze things like people with OCD, and always have to make sure to have an escape plan (for every situation, room, job, etc.) I always watch my back and later got a black belt (in Tang Soo Do) because I was so unsettled by the "abduction" and transport that I have to be ready to kick ass at a moments notice or I don't feel secure, but otherwise have managed to move on to be a somewhat "productive" member of society. =) I'm just starting to get over some of these things.
With these kind of results being a possibility, I can't see how anyone could consider such a program an option for their child! Please, please, contact me via private message so I can give you a telephone call and candidly discuss my program experience and what I recommend you do before you send your daughter, whom it's obvious you love very much, to an uncertain fate. I don't think you want her to never talk to you again. I don't think you want her to hate you. I know you don't want to her feel "weird" for the rest of her life.
While my 'behavior' had changed after the program, I was overflowing with rage and hatred and it took quite awhile for those thoughts to subside. I've never had violent thoughts before, but thankfully don't have them any longer.
Don't feel like there is nothing left you can do! There is always hope - no pun intended.
-
Any parent consider placing their kids in a program should read this list of warning signs:
http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html)
-
I agree you should check out alternatives. And, there are some fine places, although on this forum most of what you will read are negatives - even some references to demonstrably inaccurate information.
No facility dealing with kids having the issues involved here will have 100% success. Most students at the better places will "get it", learn, and go on to happy and useful lives. A few will fight to the end and blame everybody but themselves for all the world's ills.
Submitting a defense of PCS on this forum seems pointless, although I have heard positive things from people with good judgment. Also note that it is not a small place, and has been in existance for some time, so should be expected to have enough malcontent alumni to seem like a lot while only a timy minority. Of course, there is no way to tell for sure.
I would recommend an intensive intervention for a HS senior approaching the age (18, generally) when they can legally avoid any help. I'd check a bit more, perhaps even visiting in person, but might well go with PCS. Certainly I'd not suggest you go on any single source -- least of all anonymous. And I'd not recommend any one place here in any event. The one "blanket" comment would be to avoid WWASPS.
-
On 2005-11-28 21:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am a program graduate and am more that willing to offer an non-bias perspective of the pro's and con's of programs. I will say that the program did entirely change my life, and that I am now an extremely sucessful individual. If you would like to speak respond with an e-mail adress."
NORMAL people don't talk like this. You refer to the program you were sent to as 'the program'? Why not tell us what the program is here to benefit all of us? Go back in your hole troll, no referal fees to be made here, you sick freak. :skull:
-
Submitting a defense of PCS on this forum seems pointless, although I have heard positive things from people with good judgment.
These comments show your bad judgement. I've been to a WWASP gulag as well as a brief stay at PCS, and they are one in the same. Private kiddy prisons run by mormon freaks who belong in jail. They use coercion, both physical, emotional and psychological to break down teens into compliant robots - using force!
I'd check a bit more, perhaps even visiting in person, but might well go with PCS.
Perhaps... PERHAPS?!? Wow, you must really love your kid. :roll:
-
On 2005-11-28 17:28:00, hollyhawk wrote:
"My 17-year-old daughter (let's call her Hope)is in severe crisis on many levels and my ex-husband and I are trying to find help for her. Hope's a senior in high school. She's very bright and ambitious, intending to go to a good college in the fall. However, over the summer, Hope became addicted to meth and also became bulimic and anorexic. Before that, she was drinking. Hope would get so drunk and abusive that her close circle of friends dropped her. She started hanging out with druggies and lowlifes, sneaking out at night, using, and sleeping around. Although Hope has been seeing a psychiatrist for depression, anxiety, and paranoia, I discovered that she wasn't taking her medications at all. Her grades up until summer were honor roll caliber and most of her classes were Advanced Placement. This fall Hope's school attendance dropped drastically, often because she couldn't get up in the morning due to drug withdrawal. Now she's getting C's, D's & F's, mostly due to poor attendance and zero ambition. She tells lies constantly. I know this because I have the password to her online journals, and know what she's really doing. I also know how desperately Hope has tried to stop using, but slips back because of addiction not helped by her bad-influence friends. She has considered suicide and sometimes cuts herself. As her mom, I am horrified at her dramatic decline, but she has nothing but contempt for me, and under the influence, has even beat me up on 4 occasions. Twice I had to call the police. She defies even the simplest rules at home. I admit to being a lax disciplinarian, but my mellow live-and-let-live attitude is NOT helping my daughter. At the moment, she's at a local hospital on 72-hour-hold. Obviously, Hope is out of control and self-destructive! Today my ex and I visited the hopital social worker, who praised Provo Canyon School to the skies. At first blush, it sounded wonderful. (We're in Los Angeles, by the way.) But now that I have read alot of the horrific stuff written about PCS online, it sounds like a snake pit I wouldn't even send a snake to. Now, the complaints COULD be from a bunch of whining malcontents with an axe to grind, but somehow, I don't think so. Therefore my question remains: is there a suitable residential place with a truly good reputation?!!!! I am open to suggestions, everyone. "
First I'd stop reading her private journal. She is an adult for all practical purposes, so I would respect her privacy.
Sending your daughter to PCS or a similar program would be a waste of time. PCS will lock your daughter up until she turns 18, and you can imagine the scenario after that.
Parents always think it's the kid's friends who corrupt them, and by getting them away that will solve the problem. This isn't true, so don't expect sending her away to solve anything.
If she is in a 72 hour hold, the psychiatrist will definitely be arranging aftercare, etc. Most psychiatrists are not familiar with long term out of state programs, so their advice is useless.
If she is on 72 hour hold, that means she is in a hospital. Why not ask them about a longer term program. Perhaps day treatment, or a 28 day inpatient program. If you have medical insurance and your daughter is truly as bad as you say, then any psychiatrist would be willing to sign off on an inpatient stay. That way professionals can help her, in a hospital setting.
Unless you are just out to punish her and make her life hell, then by all means, send her to a program.
be strong.
-
Mother of depressed child. May I suggest you take a very close look at yourself and what you and your ex bring to this table of dysfuntion.The kids always carry the burden of their parents problems. Work on yourself and your child's problems will improve. If yopu child is cutting herself is is crying out and depressed.
Mercy Ministries in Missouri is for girls. No abuse there.
-
Is there anything constructive your daughter loves to do? What are her dreams? Maybe after some intense family counseling involving both of you, you could take her on an exciting trip (her choice of destination, of course). If you consider how much you will spend on a "program", taking a few months off for an adventure is cheap by comparison. There are still many interesting & safe places in the world to see and enjoy. You sound like you really love your daughter, perhaps it's time to be her friend as well as her mom. No program, regardless of how non-abusive, can take the place of a loving parent. Please do not abandon your daughter to strangers.
-
Dear Hollyhawk,
The first thing you need to tackle is getting your daughter off drugs. It seems like she is maybe a little chemically imbalanced, and since she is not taking her medication, and found street drugs to substitute it, it's spun her out of control. What medications did the doctor prescribe her? There has to be a 2 week detox you can enroll her in. Once that is tackled, you need to get her back on her medication (or experiment with new ones to find the one that works best for her). Ask her why she wasn't taking the last medication prescribed to her? It's always possible she was having a side effect from it. I've been on several medications, but it's of no use to tell you what worked for me, because we are all chemically made up differently. I no longer use medication, but there was a time in my life when it did good things for me.
I'm not sure what your situation is now, as far as work goes, or if you have gotten remarried? I'm a little curious about you. Are you making time for you, and your daughter? Are you away from home a lot? Often times, the problem isn't the child but the parent. You need to both go to therapy. Seperately, and together. You need to do things with your daughter, things she enjoys. You need to let her know how much you love her, and you want to help her get better, and back on track. You need to make her your #1 priority.
As far as programs go........well, nobody is ever going to take care of your daughter, and love her the same way you do. Trusting a bunch of strangers with the care of your daughter, is not a smart thing to do. It's different with detox centers, and I cannot tell you why? Sorry, I haven't a clue? Maybe it's because the goal is getting you off drugs, and it's not a long term facility?
A little about me.....I am 32 years old, went to my first program at the age of 12, which was called Heritage School located in Provo, UT. I spents 3 1/2 years there, and was then sent directly to Cross Creek Manor in La Verkin, UT. I ran away after almost a year there, and never went back. My Aunt, and Uncle ended up taking me in, and I finished my H.S. then went on to a couple years of J.C., they changed my life. I felt loved for the first time, we would have our occasional fights, and for the first year after such a fight, I would be asking them if they wanted me to pack my bags, and leave? They'd be like NO, we just got in a little disagreement?!! Anyway, there are others out there in your postion, and they don't take the easy way out. Please try and solve the issues your daughter is having, on your own.
Good Luck!
Randi
-
http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html
This is a fantastic resource, because it's my own experience that WWASPS programs fit 35 out of the 40 items in that list.
Also look at http://http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html before selecting a program, and avoid programs both listed and similar to those listed.
While I am of the belief that occasional drug use is part of growing up, I'm also the first to acknowledge that if your child has psychological issues or disorders, getting her off whatever "drugs" she might be on is an issue of paramount importance, and ANY illicit drug use by someone in her situation can have devestating consequences.
I've found that sometimes it takes a lot of maturity to be able to understand that just because friends might be able to use drugs without significant ill consequences, anyone with psychological disorders, depression, or mental illness almost certaintly CAN NOT. Being able to resist these urges will mean some major emotional growth for your daughter, and she needs to be comfortable with and understand herself so she can separate herself from the "group mind" of her peers, and see herself as an individual.
That is, in my opinion, the most important step in recovery. This is opposite of what programs do -- External coersion that forces integration into the program group, and molding that "group mind" to the views of the program, often using the opinions of the group as a measure of 'success'. It's sick.
A short term detox center without a religious background or affiliation might be my recommendation if she is currently hospitalized. Of course, I really want you to private message me so I can call you and speak to you! While I'm not a doctor or a professional, I've been through programs and know alot of people, and I believe that AA/NA/Alanon/Alateen probably is not your daughters answer.
As far as the substance abuse goes, I'd suggest that you look into Rational Recovery (1). I believe it's an excellent program.
Other ones which I am less famaliar with but have heard more good results than bad are Women For Sobriety (2) and SMART Recovery. They reject labeling and use non-religious approach, and their web site provides much information and resources, with credible references (3). Forums mods - I hope I am not violating the rules here "recommending" a program (edit away if so), but if you look, most of these programs offer self-help, meetings, and services free of charge to those in need, without a "forced" commitment.
Compare this to most programs' information! You can look at the videos on the SMART web site to help decide if SMART might help (4). The irony here is that the views of these organizations are often 180 DEGREES OPPOSITE from what you'll hear from "programs".
To close this up, I've found there are lots of things to try at home, and I'd like to discuss those options with you. Please contact me via private message!
You should also be aware of the recent US National Institue for Health study, which all but discredits the kind of programs so hotly debated here. (5) Avoid WWASPS and similar programs at all costs.
(1) http://http://www.rational.org/
(2) http://http://www.womenforsobriety.org/
(3) http://http://www.smartrecovery.org/resources/faq.htm
(4) http://http://www.smartrecovery.org/resources/learnaboutsmart.htm
(5) http://http://www.isaccorp.org/documents/ineffective.pdf
-
Thank you for checking it out before sending her there. You may have saved your family years of grief by doing so.
I think you should look to a local rehab center. That way you can easily check on your daughter to make sure that she is okay. If you send her to PCS, you will not even be allowed to speak with her on the phone for at least three months, but in most cases, longer. How will you know that she is okay if you cannot talk to her or visit her when you, the parent, see fit?
You don't have to believe anything that people say about PCS, but the fact is, there is no way to know whether your daughter will be safe. No one will be checking on her. Not the state, because they are unlicensed. Not a legitimate psychiatrist. The psychiatrist that WWASP uses travels to and from different facilities and is on the WWASP payroll. You can imagine how much money he makes from the situation and that he would not do much to jeopardize his situation. The psychiatrist even testified in court that most kids that report being abused sexually are lying, and he considers a kid to be lying if the accused is not convicted. That's who would be looking out for your daughter.
Also, they will convince you to keep her there well past the time she should be in college. They will tell you to force her to stay by saying you will abandon her if she leaves.
Good luck.
-
My opinions on the subject........Every state has halfway houses or group homes for people with mental illness and drug addictions. I attended three programs for a total of three years, including Cross Creek, and would not recommend this for your daughter. Anyone who is less than a year until their 18th birthday just counts the days anyway. My experience at programs was traumatic and I witnessed many of the abusive/questionable practices described on this site by others. I harbor resentments eight years later towards my mother for the abuse she paid others to inflict upon me, rather than keep me at home, love me and try to work with me.
People, we have recovering drug addicts in every state! Also those with mental illness who've turned their lives around with therapy! Are therapists in every other state entirely useless? Are they all unequipped to deal with severe crisis scenarios?
The program sales teams present an unrealistic scenario to parents, trying to convince them that there are no suitable alternatives in their own states. It doesn't have to be that far away or that expensive. Everyone who tries to sell you on a program gets a commission. There's no commission if they refer you to a local, government agency or outside resource. These packs of wolves are like used car salesmen, so please continue with your research before making a decision.
Would locking your daughter up guarantee that she would temporarily have less access to street drugs? Yep. Will it traumatize her and irreparably damage your relationship with her? Yep. Will she fake her way through therapy in order to move up in the program and gain privileges? In my experience, about a 90% chance of that. And in the end, when she's 18 and leaves, you'll be far, far worse off than where you are now. Without a doubt.
-
rational.org is good. That's what helped me out.
The problem with people who abuse drugs/alcohol is that they will quit only when they truly want to. Other people can't convince them, which is why I think that interventions aren't as effective as people might think.
-
On 2005-11-29 18:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
Would locking your daughter up guarantee that she would temporarily have less access to street drugs? Yep. Will it traumatize her and irreparably damage your relationship with her? Yep. Will she fake her way through therapy in order to move up in the program and gain privileges? In my experience, about a 90% chance of that. And in the end, when she's 18 and leaves, you'll be far, far worse off than where you are now. Without a doubt.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.
-- Johnny Carson
-
On 2005-11-29 06:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-11-28 21:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am a program graduate and am more that willing to offer an non-bias perspective of the pro's and con's of programs. I will say that the program did entirely change my life, and that I am now an extremely sucessful individual. If you would like to speak respond with an e-mail adress."
NORMAL people don't talk like this. You refer to the program you were sent to as 'the program'? Why not tell us what the program is here to benefit all of us? Go back in your hole troll, no referal fees to be made here, you sick freak. :skull: "
It sounds like he is just trying to help someone. In order to make a sound decision it helps to look at both sides (i.e. those people who the programs have helped and those who were failed by them).
I think if one could successfully jump to judge someone on being NORMAL (or not) based on one paragraph, we would probably take a closer look at what you wrote, you should try to calm down a little, most of us are here for the good intentions of helping others.
-
On 2005-11-29 20:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
It sounds like he is just trying to help someone. In order to make a sound decision it helps to look at both sides (i.e. those people who the programs have helped and those who were failed by them).
I think if one could successfully jump to judge someone on being NORMAL (or not) based on one paragraph, we would probably take a closer look at what you wrote, you should try to calm down a little, most of us are here for the good intentions of helping others."
::bigmouth:: :smokin: :wave:
-
On 2005-11-29 20:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
It sounds like he is just trying to help someone. In ...
No, it's actually a rule. You won't find any program mentioned by name on Lon's site either. I guess it cuts down on liabilites and bad pr.When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with all other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty.
-- John Muir
-
Programs aren't listed on Struggling Teens, Lon's site for one reason: Lon and others refer to these very same programs, abusive or not. Lon, and many of the parents who post on ST makes lots of money referring parents from this site. LOTS OF MONEY!
-
No. Do the work yourself. You'll both be better people for it, I assure you. There's no parenting manual, despite what the programs may send you. It's your job, so keep a stiff upper lip and have at it.
Good luck.
-
Go ahead and register on strugglingteens.com You will get much better information there. You can inquire about specific programs on the program section, or post your story on the other section and get private responses from parents as well as posts responding without mentioning program names.
Lon is an excellent educational consultant. You might want to speak with him.
It is absolutely not true that the parents on that forum get referral money. They are there to help other parents and get support themselves.
This board is simply a bunch of losers.
-
Forgot to sign in, last post was me.
-
On 2005-11-30 06:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Go ahead and register on strugglingteens.com You will get much better information there. You can inquire about specific programs on the program section, or post your story on the other section and get private responses from parents as well as posts responding without mentioning program names.
Lon is an excellent educational consultant. You might want to speak with him.
It is absolutely not true that the parents on that forum get referral money. They are there to help other parents and get support themselves.
This board is simply a bunch of losers."
That's an absolute lie that parents on there don't get referral money if they recommend her to a wwasp program.
-
On 2005-11-29 07:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is there anything constructive your daughter loves to do? What are her dreams? Maybe after some intense family counseling involving both of you, you could take her on an exciting trip (her choice of destination, of course). If you consider how much you will spend on a "program", taking a few months off for an adventure is cheap by comparison. There are still many interesting & safe places in the world to see and enjoy. You sound like you really love your daughter, perhaps it's time to be her friend as well as her mom. No program, regardless of how non-abusive, can take the place of a loving parent. Please do not abandon your daughter to strangers. "
I think that is one of the best Ideas I've heard.
-
Yeah, well, you aren't going to find many parents on strugglingteens recommending WWASP programs. Join us in the present,please.
-
Parents on Struggling Teens also get referral money/fees from Sue Scheff at Pure. Come on...parents at Struggling Teens receive monetary "rewards" for referring to programs all the time---free months of tuition, etc. if not out-right cash!
-
On 2005-11-30 08:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yeah, well, you aren't going to find many parents on strugglingteens recommending WWASP programs. Join us in the present,please."
Is Lon still accepting WWASP ad money? Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
-
SOOOOOO??????
What ended up happening to Hope? It seems like the 72 hour hold on her daughter in the hospital is coming to an end. Has anyone here (besides Karen In Dallas) heard from Hollyhawk via private message? There has been some really good advice given here, and I hope that she takes it(and best of all is FREE, and none of us are profiting from it!). But, the great thing is, it's coming from those of us who were in similar situations as Hope and her Mom, and we know what worked or didn't work. A lot of us have experience with these teen programs. I look forward to hearing from you Hollyhawk!
-
Very few of the programs selected within the last several years by the posters on strugglingteens give any referral money or tuition rebates. In fact, I don't know of any.
-
I'm Julie Cochrane, used to be Timoclea on Fornits, and I never sign in, but you can do a Google search on me or find me on Baen's Bar at http://bar.baen.com (http://bar.baen.com) to verify who I am and my bona fides.
I have bipolar disorder, controlled through meds and a prior course of good therapy. I have a 9 y.o. daughter with pediatric bipolar disorder, so I know about being a parent of a kid with mental health problems, and I know about *being* a kid with mental health problems.
My first advice is regular hospitalization is quite necessary for your daughter right now because of the self-harm through cutting and her needing to be restabilized on her psychiatric medication. Also, it can't hurt to have the hospital doctors take a look and get their second opinion about her diagnosis.
Many people with bipolar-spectrum mental illnesses (depression, OCD, and all the anxiety disorders seem to be related to similar "broken" things in the brain, just less severe) become addicted to alcohol or other drugs. Some psychiatrists believe that the genetic vulnerability to mental illness and the genetic vulnerability to alcoholism or other drug addiction are caused by the same genes.
The first thing you need to do is get your daughter stable on medication and detoxed from the drugs. Do this either directly in hospital or in a *short term* detox center. Something in the neighborhood of three weeks to three months. Do not try anything longer on the first effort.
Then, after your daughter comes home, if she continues to live at home (after 18, obviously her living at home or not would be a mutual choice), hand her her medication when it is time for her to take it and watch her swallow it.
Many people with mental illnesses have the symptom of firmly believing that they are absolutely not ill, that nothing at all is wrong with them---despite the objective evidence clear to *everyone* around them.
DO NOT send your daughter to a facility with a bad reputation like PCS. Where there's smoke, you can't afford to take a chance that there's going to be fire. This is your beautiful, irreplaceable baby, here. She's the only one of her you have, and you still have lots of options to try that may well work before you even consider something as drastic as some program that may take *years* even if she elects to stay in it after she turns 18. And some program that a lot of people say they have PTSD from.
I know someone who used to work as a therapist at a program in Alabama that has some complaints, but not nearly as horrible a reputation as PCS. She said she'd *never* send a kid to a program in Utah, and usually had to open a trauma file on kids they got that used to be in pretty much any program in Utah.
I'd go further. I know a number of LDS people who are great folks, but I've never heard of a program run by people who claim to be Mormons that *doesn't* have a raft of abuse allegations. Everyday Mormons can be great people, but stay *far away* from programs run by Mormons. Frequently the people running those programs have personally horrible reputations and appear to just be hiding behind their nominal religion to get the trust of their home communities.
Do not use any facility in Missouri. Missouri has almost zero regulations for anything that calls itself a religious school of any kind. There is virtually *no* consumer protection or quality control.
You're not at the stage to try a commitment longer than a short-term detox, anyway.
I know your situation is terrifying, but I see it practically every day in the national support/advocacy group for pediatric bipolar disorder.
You're at the stage of temporary hospitalization in a regular hospital to get her stabilized, and then short term detox. You want to use the least intrusive treatment that works, to avoid doing further harm, so you try each level of treatment before going on to the next most intrusive level.
90% of the time, you get success *before* you get to institutionalizing your child in a program---and make no mistake, a program like PCS, or any of the similar "programs," that is potentially years long is institutionalizing your child. They'll tell you they won't keep your kid for years but will send them home just as soon as they're ready. Most parents I've talked to have found that to be a flat lie and that they keep the kid until the 18th birthday, for years if the kid gets there younger, *or until the family runs out of insurance and money including all the kid's college fund and all the equity in the parents' house and any liquid retirement savings*
*Most* people in your shoes will get results as good with a short term detox as they would with even the best and safest longer program (institutionalization).
Some kids really do need to be institutionalized. *Your* kid right now needs to be stabilized on meds and dried out in preparation for outpatient follow-up care. Try that *next*. For *most* people in your shoes it will work.
What do I mean by "work"? I mean mental illness is frequently for life and addicts relapse. Mental illness is usually for life no matter where you send the kid. Anyone who says they can "cure" it is lying. Except for short-term reactions to some extreme stressor, there are *no* cures. Well, phobias can sometimes be cured. Other than that, unless it's *one* episode of reactive schizophrenia, or post-partum depression, or you get lucky with PTSD, or *one* episode of clinical depression brought on by something like a death of someone close, mental illness is for life. No cures, only ongoing treatments that are *usually* effective.
No matter where you send a mentally ill person, or an addict, or for how long, chances are at some point in their life after they get out, they'll relapse. In some ways, it's a bit like surviving cancer--you always have to watch it, because you may have to treat it again if you have a problem with it again. With cancer, they count "success" in terms of do you make it another five years. With mental illness and addiction, think of it in terms of how long you get sobriety or stability before you fall off, and how well you do at climbing back on.
For most people, you're going to have *at least* as long without a relapse after getting out of short-term detox as you would after getting out of an institution like a "Program." Particularly if someone directly observes your loved one taking her meds at the appropriate times each day, and makes sure she gets to outpatient appointments. Don't worry too much about non-cooperation with the therapist when she's at outpatient appointments---most therapists will be good enough to get past that initial resistance after a few sessions. Persist.
And with the short-term detox, there's much less chance of making a mistake in choice of facility (fewer bad apple facilities) and landing your kid with PTSD or permanent physical injuries on top of her other problems. Many of the Programs have a history of being lax at providing timely medical care to patients. Sometimes kids even *die* from medical neglect or improper restraint techniques in some of these places.
If you can at all swing it, change jobs and move so that your kid gets out of detox and comes home to a completely new environment and the opportunity to make new friends instead of falling back in with old friends who are still using Meth. One of the triggers of relapse is being back in the environment where the addict was using.
A fresh start out of detox, with *lots* of therapy and family emotional support, is her best chance of going longest without relapse.
Julie
-
PS--I'd try short term detox at least three times before I institutionalized even a very ill loved one for a longer stint.
*Most* parents I've had experience with whose kids are seriously mentally ill get their kid stabilized for a good stretch each time with a *short* hospitalization or *short* detox.
My cousin is about as seriously mentally ill as it is possible to be, and has to go into hospital regularly. Each time her stay is *short* until they get her stabilized, with outpatient follow on care. She's forty-something and doing about as well as can be expected for what she has. If she wasn't safe to go home, they *would* keep her.
She is *way* sicker than you've described your daughter to be. She's not only a cutter, and has abused drugs, she's also bipolar with schizoaffective features---she talks to dead people who tell her to hurt herself. At the same time, she's doing absolutely as well as they can get her--she would be doing no better if she were living in an institution, and would be no better after she got out of a longer stay.
If she can manage her illness with *short* hospitalizations to stabilize her (and she is managing, even though she does have to live at home with her mother) and outpatient therapy and supportive group therapy, then you can almost certainly manage Hope's problems with the same level of care.
Institutionalization is for schizophrenics and bipolars that are actively suicidal or homicidal and either don't respond to medication or don't have a loved one to watch them take their medication (and won't take it on their own), or won't take their meds even with a loved one to hand it to them and watch them swallow.
Many times the nurses or doctors or whoever don't really know these facilities, they've never been there, they only get the feedback from parents who have been brainwashed into thinking their kids are being helped when they aren't---or kids who have been out for less than 5 years and are still scared into singing the program's praises or brainwashed themselves. Many times they're completely unaware of the horror stories of parents and kids who have actual personal long-term experience with the facilities.
It's like the doctor who recommends a drug because the drug company rep is really nice and gives him lots of samples---it may *not* be the best drug for you. A less expensive drug may actually be better for what you have. But the drug company rep does a real good job of selling that new, expensive drug.
Try the less intrusive, less expensive option *first*. Several times, if you have to. You have a much better than 50% chance that it will work (each time) just as well as or better than institutionalization.
Julie
-
On 2005-11-30 08:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yeah, well, you aren't going to find many parents on strugglingteens recommending WWASP programs. Join us in the present,please."
This is an unmitigated lie. There are plenty of WWASPies on StrugglingParents more than willing to make a few dollars for referring you and your family to WWASP.
-
What ended up happening to Hope? It seems like the 72 hour hold on her daughter in the hospital is coming to an end. Has anyone here (besides Karen In Dallas) heard from Hollyhawk via private message? There has been some really good advice given here, and I hope that she takes it(and best of all is FREE, and none of us are profiting from it!). But, the great thing is, it's coming from those of us who were in similar situations as Hope and her Mom, and we know what worked or didn't work. A lot of us have experience with these teen programs. I look forward to hearing from you Hollyhawk!"
I've not been contacted, PM uread, but I did add an e-mail address here.
It's quite possible that she is very busy with her daughters situation and hasn't been regurlarly checking the forum. Let's just hope she does contact at least a few people from here before she makes any decisions.
-
I wouldn't be surprised if she took the easy way out, and sent her daughter to PCS or some other school. Otherwise, she would have come back to this site, and posted.
-
Try posting on Struggling Teens yourself as a "parent with a teen in need of help" and just see how many of these caring parents try to REFER you to a school or to PURE or to THEIR ed con. They are in it for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
-
My mother referred several people she knew to Cross Creek and was always offered $1,000 or the ability to donate a free month's tuition to the child. She always chose the tuition donation. She didn't recruit via websites or anything, just by telling the typical story of how I was "saved from death or jail" (as an honors student whose issue was talking back, but who knows how that might've spiraled out of control if I retained my freedoms for four of my teenage years).
Why did she donate the tuition and keep wanting to refer others? I think maybe in the back of her head there was a 'lil nagging voice that maybe she didn't do the right thing. She seemed to want to prove to herself that the program was a good thing by wanting to "save" others from the fate she wanted to believe would've been mine without Cross Creek. I don't think my mom will ever have the strength to admit that she paid people to treat me the way they did for four years. She's protecting her own psyche. Every time one of her referrals got out, she wanted us all to do lunch and have some type of meaningful reunion. Total programmee.
Parents who refer may have other motivations besides money, but I think it's important to keep in mind that their own families were/are in crisis and they have their own issues and needs they're trying to meet, whether they are emotional, financial, or acceptance needs.
-
Excellent comments. I have a relative who is currently incarcerated in a program for the same "crime" of backtalking. She is missing some of the most important years of her life because she had opinions, independent thoughts and the courage to express them. I can only hope that she will still be capable of such "awful" behavior when she is released.
-
On 2005-11-30 10:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm Julie Cochrane, used to be Timoclea on Fornits, and I never sign in
...
Julie"
Welcome back Tim :wave:
Been worried about you.
-
On 2005-12-01 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Excellent comments. I have a relative who is currently incarcerated in a program for the same "crime" of backtalking. She is missing some of the most important years of her life because she had opinions, independent thoughts and the courage to express them. I can only hope that she will still be capable of such "awful" behavior when she is released. "
That's all she did? Lies, K, all lies . . .
-
That's all she did? Lies, K, all lies . . ."
It wouldn't suprise me. I was mainly sent for arguing with my family and refusing to just go with the flow. Alot of teens do that, and eventually grow out of it. It's a normal part of the (often tough) teenage years! Never had any big troubles with the law or any problems with drugs.
I've never heard of any parents, regardless of the reasons, being told by the program officials that it wouldn't be right to send their child! In the end, it's all about the money. These programs prey on parents during vulnerable times, and children are the victims.
-
On 2005-12-01 12:55:00, trnsz wrote:
I've never heard of any parents, regardless of the reasons, being told by the program officials that it wouldn't be right to send their child! In the end, it's all about the money. These programs prey on parents during vulnerable times, and children are the victims.
How would you know this unless you work there? I was turned down by 2 places which were not a good fit for my child, and after hearing their explanation I agreed and thanked them.
It is posts like this that make me take some of the horror stories, I read posted here, with a grain of salt.
-
So why were you turned down? Or should we take THAT with a grain of salt?
-
Yeah right!!!!!!!
-
On 2005-12-01 14:42:00, The Liger wrote:
"So why were you turned down? Or should we take THAT with a grain of salt?
"
It wasnt a good fit, some facilities are not setup to handle all situations. For example if your child needs a 12 step program incorporated into their week or day not all programs offer that and they may recommend that you seek a different program. If you have a child who has a history of violence not all programs will take them because of that etc. Some campus' dont have fences and your child may be the type to run etc.
Like any other business/program each has their strengths and weaknesses and they like to choose the child they feel will be successful within their working model.
-
On 2005-12-01 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Excellent comments. I have a relative who is currently incarcerated in a program for the same "crime" of backtalking. She is missing some of the most important years of her life because she had opinions, independent thoughts and the courage to express them. I can only hope that she will still be capable of such "awful" behavior when she is released. "
In the '60s the shrinks put together a questionaire to be distributed among the inmates of several maximum security prisons with questions regarding what they would do different, do they have remorse for the people they hurt etc. It turns out that 99% of the inmates claimed they were innocent and never committed a crime !!!!
-
How would you know this unless you work there? I was turned down by 2 places which were not a good fit for my child, and after hearing their explanation I agreed and thanked them. It is posts like this that make me take some of the horror stories, I read posted here, with a grain of salt."
I am only speaking from my own experience, and the experiences of those I know.
Personally, I'd be shocked if these programs that "turned you down" were WWASPS programs. Take that with as much salt as you'd like.
_________________
-- dbamsal@hotmail.com[ This Message was edited by: trnsz on 2005-12-01 15:40 ]
-
On 2005-12-01 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-01 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Excellent comments. I have a relative who is currently incarcerated in a program for the same "crime" of backtalking. She is missing some of the most important years of her life because she had opinions, independent thoughts and the courage to express them. I can only hope that she will still be capable of such "awful" behavior when she is released. "
In the '60s the shrinks put together a questionaire to be distributed among the inmates of several maximum security prisons with questions regarding what they would do different, do they have remorse for the people they hurt etc. It turns out that 99% of the inmates claimed they were innocent and never committed a crime !!!!"
Contrary to what the programs and the programmed parents want you to believe, the vast majority of teenagers are not hardened criminals. Talking back, doing drugs, running away, failing classes and sleeping around are not the same as murder. Teens, no matter how "wild", do not deserve to be imprisoned without a fair trial-- even if their parents believe it will "save" them.
-
On 2005-12-01 15:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-01 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-01 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Excellent comments. I have a relative who is currently incarcerated in a program for the same "crime" of backtalking. She is missing some of the most important years of her life because she had opinions, independent thoughts and the courage to express them. I can only hope that she will still be capable of such "awful" behavior when she is released. "
In the '60s the shrinks put together a questionaire to be distributed among the inmates of several maximum security prisons with questions regarding what they would do different, do they have remorse for the people they hurt etc. It turns out that 99% of the inmates claimed they were innocent and never committed a crime !!!!"
Contrary to what the programs and the programmed parents want you to believe, the vast majority of teenagers are not hardened criminals. Talking back, doing drugs, running away, failing classes and sleeping around are not the same as murder. Teens, no matter how "wild", do not deserve to be imprisoned without a fair trial-- even if their parents believe it will "save" them. "
Well I think we can all agree that They are not sent away for failing one class, or accidently talked back to their parents nor because they murdered someone. Their problems are somewhere in between the two.
-
On 2005-12-01 15:40:00, trnsz wrote:
"How would you know this unless you work there? I was turned down by 2 places which were not a good fit for my child, and after hearing their explanation I agreed and thanked them. It is posts like this that make me take some of the horror stories, I read posted here, with a grain of salt."
I am only speaking from my own experience, and the experiences of those I know.
Personally, I'd be shocked if these programs that "turned you down" were WWASPS programs. Take that with as much salt as you'd like.
_________________
-- dbamsal@hotmail.com[ This Message was edited by: trnsz on 2005-12-01 15:40 ]"
No I didnt contact any WWASPS schools I dont believe, so I cant speak to that. One was an Aspen school.
-
I know of several programs that are very selective and turn down a number of students. Oakley, Carlbrook and Cascade(out of business now) have turned down kids. As the previous poster said, the reputable programs will do a thorough analysis of the child to determine if their program will be beneficial.
-
Right. Do you have any proof to back that up?
Janis, Jimi, Gery, Timothy... Did you HAVE to get so close to the edge to get a really good view?
-- Anonymous
-
Who needs fences when the facility is located 2+ hours from the nearest village and surrounded by complete wilderness! Some brave kids still try to run, most get caught quickly. Bless their poor little souls for having the guts to try!
-
On 2005-12-01 17:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who needs fences when the facility is located 2+ hours from the nearest village and surrounded by complete wilderness! Some brave kids still try to run, most get caught quickly. Bless their poor little souls for having the guts to try!"
Right -- being 2+ hours from the nearest village is a fence in itself. I think the point was that some facilities wont except some children based on what they are setup to handle. If they are a facility without fences they dont want to except a child who is a flight risk. They want to try to be as successful as possible with each child.
-
Helloooooooo? Who needs fences when you have a sophisticated alarm system?
-
and video cameras that are monitored 24/7 giving you no privacy!!!
-
If they are a facility without fences they dont want to except a child who is a flight risk. They want to try to be as successful as possible with each child.
THESE facilities themselves create the run risk because human beings naturally run away from danger. There is a reason these shitholes are in the middle of nowhere, or are lockdown facilities. This is not treatment, these is private prisons where ' civil rights' mean nothing.
-
On 2005-12-01 20:19:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:
"Helloooooooo? Who needs fences when you have a sophisticated alarm system? "
Exactly or if you are so far away from the nearest town etc. but some kids will run anyway, alarm system, fences, dogs, 100 miles off shore, so why bother. If you prescreen the kids prior to excepting them it reduces the schools exposer to those types that are going to be trying to run all the time instead of working the program. If you are constantly having runaway kids, its bad for business, helicopters, channel 5 news. You want to maximize your changes of success bottom line
-
On 2005-12-01 20:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If they are a facility without fences they dont want to except a child who is a flight risk. They want to try to be as successful as possible with each child.
THESE facilities themselves create the run risk because human beings naturally run away from danger. There is a reason these shitholes are in the middle of nowhere, or are lockdown facilities. This is not treatment, these is private prisons where ' civil rights' mean nothing."
Not sure what "These" you speak of but that is simply not true. Sounds like you had a bad experience of some type, but the intent is not to drive the kids away but to provide a safe enviorment.
-
My bad, I guess it's totally safe to tell parents not to believe anything their kids say, to cut off communication with the outside world, and to keep them locked in so the boogiemen don't get 'em. I'm sure they're safer inside given the multiple accusations of abuse.
I went to CCM and confirm that I'd have been safer if they just locked me out of that place.
-
Ever see the movie `Oldboy`?
=)
-
Noooooooo?????? But, please tell me it relates somehow to all this?!!
-
It's a crazy Japanese movie, not directly related but just came to mind. "They" lock a guy up in a hotel room for 15 years to punish him, but he doesn't know who `they` are. When he get's out, he goes out with intent to kill them, finds out who they are, but in the end, they are pulling the strings and have him setup and brainwashed. It's pretty good.
"Sir, just tell me how long I have to stay in here?
Just tell me that, huh?
Just tell me One month, two, or three? Hey!
If they had told me it was going to be 15
years could it have been easier to endure?
Or could it have not?"
All the talk about no communication and being locked up made me think of it. At least the guy in the movie had a TV.
I guess it was pretty off-topic, sorry. =)
-
Ida been better off forced to live in the backyard in a tent and have to hunt/gather for all my food...
Atleast I would have learned something and no one else would have abused me.
I just don't understand why parents are AT ALL willing to take a chance with their childs life by placing them in any facility. The facts are, You just never know, and one day your kid is alive and the next day he/she isn't, all because of 1 restraint period, which wasn't even justified or legal in the first place.
I just don't get it, warehousing kids. None of the behaviors I see here or saw in the place I was in deserve a LIFE sentence handed down by emotional parents and abusive facilities. And you never know when a program will be abusive... you just never know. It's not like the brochure for where I was said on the front ABUSIVE MIND CONTROL CULT... But there I was suspended in time, blocked off from ANY communication, in a severely abusive place. I came out of there WAY worse then when I went in.
I don't care what my kid ever does, I will never consider storing them in a warehouse till they can "act right" or whatever. My kid is NOT forsale.
-
I just thank (the heavens) that this site is available as a resource. I know that had my parents had access to this site back in 92' or so, they would have never sent me to PCS.
-
In the town next to me growing up their highschool football coach would punish the kids who screwed up by forcing them to run around the track until the coach said "Head to the showers" and the kid had to make it to the showers (from the field) without being tackled or he had to do it all over again. The third time he was tackled by the team and suffocated ,it was awful. Amazing what some schools will do to kids.
-
I wonder what you are doing now with your life? Do you think that we evil parents really think of this as "warehousing" our kids until they "act right"??? I don't know what your parents were up to, but as a parent of a child who is slipping away from anything good my consideration of an RTC is out of LOVE!!! For God's sake? What the hell is wrong with some of you? I am really sorry if you suffered real abuse? What was it? Were you sexually abused? Hit in the face? Beaten? Spit on? Shat upon? I keep hearing ABUSE and very little detail of what the abuse was.
Forgive my exasperation, but frankly, I am dealing with a child who thinks that every time someone tells him "no" that THAT is abusive. Yet he seems to have no understanding that saying "F*** YOU" 20 times a day to the people who live him is abusive. What gives?
-
You have to understand that some (not all) some of these kids sent to these type schools have been given everything under the sun because their parents were financially able to, and because they wanted to be doting parents, but it ended up backfiring because then kids when they become teenagers think they can just do whatever they want and it gets them in trouble and they cant understand why they are being told no. Then, when they get sent to these schools, they think that doing exercises is abuse, they think that cleaning their dorm buildings is abuse, they think that weeding flower beds is abuse, they think that no dessert and cafeteria food is abuse, etc etc etc. No, these schools are no picnic, and yes, there are true abuses that go on in some schools and at the hands of some abusive individuals, and those should be dealt with harshly, but from my experience, the majority of abuse complaints are more along the lines of kids being made to do something they didnt like, not something that truly harmed them physically. But like I said, I know some true abuses do occur, so you would have to take each abuse complaint individually.
-
You're obviously not too familiar with Straight and its offspring schools. Or WWASPS.
I dunno, I think having to sit in a closet wearing pants full of your own feces, urine and menstrual blood seems pretty abusive to me. If it were an isolated incident, that would be one thing, but it's not. Ask any straight alumni.
It's not a question of just "some" abuses. It's a systemic issue.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:08 ]
-
I'm a graduate of straight inc and a parent of a 25 year old son. My son has been a "handful" for most of his life. That said, I never considered putting him in a program. Try being a loving parent and support your child. Most people grow out of the abusive type of behavior... and if they don't then sending a child to a program will do nothing but add fuel to the fire. Good luck.
-
You have to understand that some (not all) some of these kids sent to these type schools have been given everything under the sun because their parents were financially able to, and because they wanted to be doting parents, but it ended up backfiring because then kids when they become teenagers think they can just do whatever they want and it gets them in trouble and they cant understand why they are being told no. Then, when they get sent to these schools, they think that doing exercises is abuse, they think that cleaning their dorm buildings is abuse, they think that weeding flower beds is abuse, they think that no dessert and cafeteria food is abuse, etc etc etc. No, these schools are no picnic, and yes, there are true abuses that go on in some schools and at the hands of some abusive individuals, and those should be dealt with harshly, but from my experience, the majority of abuse complaints are more along the lines of kids being made to do something they didnt like, not something that truly harmed them physically. But like I said, I know some true abuses do occur, so you would have to take each abuse complaint individually.
******
Yes, this is most of what I am seeing on this website. Complaints that they were kept in rigid line. I too think that the biggest mistake I made was indulging my son for too long. I didn't have a lot of money to spoil him, but after my divorce, I was worried about my children's emotional well-being so if they acted out I would sit them down and talk to them. I thought I was doing something right. And my daughter is fine, but my son has been acting out for some time now and is failing every subject in school and starting to get in trouble with the local police. Some people here have advised that I just let him grow up and keep loving and supporting him. That would be nice if I didn't have a probation officer screaming in my face that he's going to lock him up. So to me it seems that I have the choice of letting the state lock him up, or carefully choosing a place that will give him structure and therapy together.
-
On 2005-12-04 06:54:00, famjaztique wrote:
"a place that will give him structure and therapy together.
"
Better look REAL hard, like in your imagination. This place doesn't exist.
At least in juvie his constitutional rights won't be systematically violated.
Ask any number of people who were placed in "programs." i'd bet 8 of 10 would say they wished they went to jail instead: defined sentence, contact with loved ones, guaranteed meals and sleep.
You won't get any of that in a program, but hey, what do care? It's not you who will have to endure the abuse...
-
I was at Cross Creek Manor. Let me give you specifics, since you're obviously a WWASP employee or a natural-born programee for calling us liars (did someone sneak her a copy of the Parent Handbook early???).
1. Children were slammed to the ground and sat on without proper technique. Professionals who work with children should be trained in PART, CPI, or another proper restraint technique designed to keep the child safe in a dignified manner. The core component of all restraint techniques is that they are intended to be a last resort to prevent injuries. NOT the way that I saw them used, which was to have 2-5 adults tackle someone for talking back, squash them for 10-15 minutes to put on a show for the rest of us, and instigate them to make another comment so they could intensify the pain. I'd see the child screaming in pain and the staff would not let up, and the restraints were unjustified in the first place.
2. Being put on "essay silence" for up to two weeks as group punishment. Group punishments by themselves are illegal. So is requiring extended periods of silence. We'd even get in trouble if a roommate tattled that we whispered a comment back in our rooms. That was considered abuse according to federal laws that regulate abusive practices and consequences.
3. Verbal abuse was rampant. I saw staff yell at kids to, "Shut up", "Get the hell over here, now!", etc. When they needed us to line up for something, etc. it was often screamed at us. Bernie, Jake and Blair never yelled, but almost all of the others did.
It is difficult to explain what this does to the psyche of a child who is the victim of constant verbal abuse for 2-4 years, especially since you've already decided that the kids deserve it if they don't listen to their parents.
4. Failure to treat those with mental illness with dignity. This psychological/emotional abuse was very rampant. They'd make kids sit/sleep in hallways at the manor and at the rec and would publicly humiliate them with verbal abuse whenever others would walk by. The rest of the kids were punished if they made eye contact, smiled, or spoke to those who were in trouble in the hallways.
I'm almost 30 and only post because I think you parents need to realize you're traumatizing your kids if you sell them to WWASP.
-
Wow, I am amazed at how much anger there is on this site.
To parents who are looking for an intervention for their child: DO NOT LOSE HOPE!
Just like anything, wilderness programs and treatment programs and res. facilities exist on a spectrum, with a range of interventions, structure, and treatment modalities geared toward particular kinds of behaviors and diagnoses. There are intense, in-your-face programs and soft, loving and nurturing programs. Different kids, different needs.
I've worked at residential treatment programs, wilderness programs, and therapeutic boarding schools. I've seen some kids really blossom and others merely maintain. Clearly some forms of treatment and intervention are more successful than others, depending on the child's behavior and needs.
Please, please...do your homework. Do not send your child to a program without multiple referrals and without a visit, if that's possible. Talk to current students, parents, and alumni of the program, including those who did not experience long-term benefits--ask the admissions folks specifically for the names of these parents/students. Even if they did not experience great benefit, they should be able to speak to the level of commitment of the staff, the integrity of the program, and the fact that the program worked hard to design specific interventions that would work or that they were honest about trying to refer to a program that might be more beneficial to meet that child's needs.
A good program should have a family/parent component. Do not settle for a program that only works with your child. Your child is one piece of a family system that will HAVE TO CHANGE as a whole if there is to be any long-lasting effect to either your child or your family.
An ed consultant can be a great ally. Yes, they get paid alot of money. But a reputable Ed. Cons. does not ethically receive gifts from programs to which they refer, so their job really is to research and know the pros & cons of many different programs. Look for an ed. cons. with specialty in the needs of your child (i.e. alcohol/drug tx programs, learning disabilities, crisis intervention, etc.)
Bottom line--do your homework. Look at other sources of information on the web, make phone calls, talk to program people and other people who have experience with programs. There are many, many good programs out there. Do not be discouraged by the nay-sayers on this list.
Good luck!
-
If you ask to talk to a parent, you'll be referred to a programee who will sing the praises of the program. They screen their list carefully.
Schedule a visit if you'd like. You'll get a dog-and-pony show filled with the kids acting exactly like the program wants them to. Ask to see the kids in seclusion- don't give them advance warning or they'll doctor it up for you.
WWASP will not give out names/numbers of those whose kids weren't successful. Go ahead, ask.
What we are all saying is that programs are abusive to kids. We lived it. Making phone calls isn't going to shed any light on program realities. The "do your research" opportunities set up by programs are designed to make parents feel better about what they're inflicting upon their children for a temporary time period. You've already done your "research" if you've read this far- and may you burn in hell if you make the very informed decision to subject your child to torture for any period of time.
-
How is the posting about the detailed abuses at Cross Creek "angry"? Others asked for facts and details, and I attempted to provide just that. I'm not swearing or name calling, just citing the facts that I remember. I am an intelligent person capable of engaging in a rational conversation, which is nearly impossible when all of the pro-program people keep skirting the issues presented.
-
EVERYONE HERE SHOULD JUST EAT A XANAX, SMOKE A JOINT, AND CALM THE F*CK DOWN, K?
-
Why is everyone so angry at parents looking to help their kids? Is it because your parents never helped you and you dont want any other kids to get help? I dont understand many of you, very little hope or advice is offered. If many of you were sent away like you claim, why cant you offer a parent some insight which may help their child avoid being sent away. Maybe look back on your own situation and see what might have averted you being sent away and offer that advice. I think anything is better than just trying to tear someone down who is looking for help. Does just being mean really make you feel that much better about yourselves?
-
As requested, here is some advice I'd give a parent:
When things weren't going so well, I did feel like I'd dug myself a bit of a hole with my group of friends. I cared about them but really did need to get away from them in order to change, because they were doing the things I was getting in trouble for. Like many teens, I was impressionable and not strong enough to tell them all that I didn't want to hang out with them anymore. I don't think that I needed to leave the state for that to happen. I'd suggest that parents look at moving (can be close enough to keep your jobs-just to get your kid into a new district) or requesting that the district allow your child to change schools. Before the move, ask your child if they'll try therapy so that they are prepared for the idea of a fresh start. If they are not on board with this, they'll recreate the same scenario with the only change being different faces surrounding them, but it's an idea and worth a shot. If your child is being bullied, I'd use that as leverage in a school transfer request.
Someone else suggested taking a few months off to travel the world with your teen. What a positive idea, and still cheaper than a year plus at a WWASP school.
Does your child have a favorite grandparent/ aunt/ uncle/ family friend who might allow the child to live there for awhile? You could pay them $500 to $1000 for room and board, and it'd be way cheaper than the $4000 WWASP charges. Plus your child would be in hands of someone you know and trust. You need to be able to speak to your child freely for change to occur.
What positive groups or activities are there in your community? Part of the problem with stopping a behavior, drugs, gangs or whatever, is that then you're left with nothing to do. All your son might be able to think of right now is something negative or against your rules. Are there any sports groups, places to skateboard, clubs, etc. that you could get him to join? I know he is probably very against this type of thing right now, so initially maybe you could make a deal that if he tries your idea, you'll give him something that he wants in return. He may grow to love the new activities.
If he's able to get an after school job to occupy his time, offer to match his savings dollar for dollar to save up for a car. He will have far less time to get into trouble, and you have plenty of time to decide when he's responsible enough for a car. Again, still way cheaper than WWASP.
I was one of the posters accused of being angry. Really I did not mean to come across that way. I was becoming frustrated with the fact that the WWASP defenders keep dismissing former students' claims and implying that we're not being honest or should just get over it. I've seen horrible things happen to others in programs and do get upset when I think that it's about to happen to another person.
-
On 2005-12-04 18:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"As requested, here is some advice I'd give a parent:
When things weren't going so well, I did feel like I'd dug myself a bit of a hole with my group of friends. I cared about them but really did need to get away from them in order to change, because they were doing the things I was getting in trouble for. Like many teens, I was impressionable and not strong enough to tell them all that I didn't want to hang out with them anymore. I don't think that I needed to leave the state for that to happen. I'd suggest that parents look at moving (can be close enough to keep your jobs-just to get your kid into a new district) or requesting that the district allow your child to change schools. Before the move, ask your child if they'll try therapy so that they are prepared for the idea of a fresh start. If they are not on board with this, they'll recreate the same scenario with the only change being different faces surrounding them, but it's an idea and worth a shot. If your child is being bullied, I'd use that as leverage in a school transfer request.
Someone else suggested taking a few months off to travel the world with your teen. What a positive idea, and still cheaper than a year plus at a WWASP school.
Does your child have a favorite grandparent/ aunt/ uncle/ family friend who might allow the child to live there for awhile? You could pay them $500 to $1000 for room and board, and it'd be way cheaper than the $4000 WWASP charges. Plus your child would be in hands of someone you know and trust. You need to be able to speak to your child freely for change to occur.
What positive groups or activities are there in your community? Part of the problem with stopping a behavior, drugs, gangs or whatever, is that then you're left with nothing to do. All your son might be able to think of right now is something negative or against your rules. Are there any sports groups, places to skateboard, clubs, etc. that you could get him to join? I know he is probably very against this type of thing right now, so initially maybe you could make a deal that if he tries your idea, you'll give him something that he wants in return. He may grow to love the new activities.
If he's able to get an after school job to occupy his time, offer to match his savings dollar for dollar to save up for a car. He will have far less time to get into trouble, and you have plenty of time to decide when he's responsible enough for a car. Again, still way cheaper than WWASP.
I was one of the posters accused of being angry. Really I did not mean to come across that way. I was becoming frustrated with the fact that the WWASP defenders keep dismissing former students' claims and implying that we're not being honest or should just get over it. I've seen horrible things happen to others in programs and do get upset when I think that it's about to happen to another person."
Thank you so much, your response is very sincere and open..... now that will make a parent think twice about sending their child away.....ideas, other options, a different perspective on what their child might be thinking and about what may help... it is so hard to think clearly when your child or someone you love is walking torwards harming themselves, you need to take action quickly and do the right thing and to have someone offering options, living with Realtives, move or travel for a few months is great and not something they may think of themselves given the circumstances.... if a parent could come on here and get that type of feed back you could really make a difference ... I didnt expect anyone to respond this openly, you should save what you wrote and offer it to future parents who write in
Thanks again for sharing that
-
Please do not be intimidated by folks who think all programs are bad for all kids, in reality some kids are going to need Residential Treatment or Schools, and so with that being said do you research, licensing, oversight, and don't be sold by the PR. If you would like contact me at PFRR http://www.pfrr.org (http://www.pfrr.org) has all the information. No matter your decision good luck.
-
On 2005-12-04 18:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"As requested, here is some advice I'd give a parent:
When things weren't going so well, I did feel like I'd dug myself a bit of a hole with my group of friends. I cared about them but really did need to get away from them in order to change, because they were doing the things I was getting in trouble for. Like many teens, I was impressionable and not strong enough to tell them all that I didn't want to hang out with them anymore. I don't think that I needed to leave the state for that to happen. I'd suggest that parents look at moving (can be close enough to keep your jobs-just to get your kid into a new district) or requesting that the district allow your child to change schools. Before the move, ask your child if they'll try therapy so that they are prepared for the idea of a fresh start. If they are not on board with this, they'll recreate the same scenario with the only change being different faces surrounding them, but it's an idea and worth a shot. If your child is being bullied, I'd use that as leverage in a school transfer request.
Someone else suggested taking a few months off to travel the world with your teen. What a positive idea, and still cheaper than a year plus at a WWASP school.
Does your child have a favorite grandparent/ aunt/ uncle/ family friend who might allow the child to live there for awhile? You could pay them $500 to $1000 for room and board, and it'd be way cheaper than the $4000 WWASP charges. Plus your child would be in hands of someone you know and trust. You need to be able to speak to your child freely for change to occur.
What positive groups or activities are there in your community? Part of the problem with stopping a behavior, drugs, gangs or whatever, is that then you're left with nothing to do. All your son might be able to think of right now is something negative or against your rules. Are there any sports groups, places to skateboard, clubs, etc. that you could get him to join? I know he is probably very against this type of thing right now, so initially maybe you could make a deal that if he tries your idea, you'll give him something that he wants in return. He may grow to love the new activities.
If he's able to get an after school job to occupy his time, offer to match his savings dollar for dollar to save up for a car. He will have far less time to get into trouble, and you have plenty of time to decide when he's responsible enough for a car. Again, still way cheaper than WWASP.
I was one of the posters accused of being angry. Really I did not mean to come across that way. I was becoming frustrated with the fact that the WWASP defenders keep dismissing former students' claims and implying that we're not being honest or should just get over it. I've seen horrible things happen to others in programs and do get upset when I think that it's about to happen to another person."
Just wanted to add another alternative/option....why not look into mentoring programs in your area?
-
This is my advice: Put your kids on this and other forums, Let them do the research! and then let them decide if they are willing to take the risk of their parent choosing an abusive program. Man, I can tell you had I even known Staright Inc existed, I woulda changed alot of things and I didnt even do horrible stuff to get there in the first place, No drugs, no violence, no police problems... All I did was try to run away from home.
Yep, I'd inform my child what the possibilities are. Jail? I'd much preferred Jail or juvi...And yes atleast I would have had some rights.
Parents, I don't think you understand what happens in these place, maybe not all, but you never know and the Potential is HIGH for abuse. I don't think you understand what your kid is going through is most likely temporary, but once you warehouse them the scars are permanent. I just wish I could get the point across how much potential there is for any program, school w/e they pretend they are, to be severly abusive and harm your kid forever. So parents either you take care of your kid for a few more years or put them in a warehouse and then care for them forever after, trying to heal their wounds. It's up to you.
-
Quoted from above: some kids are going to need Residential Treatment or Schools, -END
This is like saying some wives need to be abused.
-
This is what can happen to your child, in any facility. I would never take the chance. Illegal restraints are used, don't fool yourselves. I lived it almost every day for many months for doing nothing but sitting on my hands looking at the floor. I wasn't even allowed to speak for all those months, just because I refused to comply with the abuse of other children around me. So your kids won't only be abused, but they are often forced (through fear) to abuse others. And all the while you think your loving your kid by sending him/her away. Ironic isn't it. If you want to see what it is like for someone who refuses to comply, read up on me. I agree, do you really want your children to endure what I and so many others have? And then come home to you a stranger, Your kids will never, ever be the same, and not in a good way either- even if they don't know it right away.
This was a good link someone on the Straight Inc forum posted. It indicates what physically happens to a persons body during a restraint. And remember, I was restrained almost everyday for nothing, No violence, no nothing. It happened to me just because I was looking at the floor, sitting on my hands. I sat on my hands so no other kid would assult me. But it happened at some point during every single day.
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Arc ... e/mohr.asp (http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/june/mohr.asp)
-
On 2005-12-04 21:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quoted from above: some kids are going to need Residential Treatment or Schools, -END
This is like saying some wives need to be abused."
No its not, all the person is saying is not all kids are the same some need treatment others dont, just like anything else there are people at both ends of the spectrum, everyone needs something different,just the way it is.
Sorry you relate this to violence in the home, hope this isnt something you are living with, or have experienced yourself.
-
Considering Ive made a thread stretch for 42+ pages trying to get a straight answer from programmies about how a program works and what it actually does, and they coudlnt clearly answer, Id be more inclined to say every program needs to figure out wtf its trying to fix and how its going to fix it before it should be taking up any kids.
But hey, in the nebulous, vague word of DEADINSANEORINJAIL due to... anything but being an obedient stepford child, you can send them off for being "OUT OF CONTROL!" if they dont take the trash out without nagging :roll:
So then you send them off to get fixed in some MYSTERIOUS WAY so you can drop off some kid whose all bad and get your "old kid back" and somehow think thats not brainwashing either, right?
-
On 2005-12-05 13:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Considering Ive made a thread stretch for 42+ pages trying to get a straight answer from programmies about how a program works and what it actually does, and they coudlnt clearly answer, Id be more inclined to say every program needs to figure out wtf its trying to fix and how its going to fix it before it should be taking up any kids.
But hey, in the nebulous, vague word of DEADINSANEORINJAIL due to... anything but being an obedient stepford child, you can send them off for being "OUT OF CONTROL!" if they dont take the trash out without nagging :roll:
So then you send them off to get fixed in some MYSTERIOUS WAY so you can drop off some kid whose all bad and get your "old kid back" and somehow think thats not brainwashing either, right?"
42 pages !! We should listen to you, you must know what you are talking about... let me reread your post.......... okay thanks for the input, I think you really added value to this discussion. You have a real knack for helping people and are in touch with what is going on, I hope you contribute more in the future.
-
Yes, I know of a great facility for your daughter.........I'm not sure if you have heard of it or not? It's called HOME!!!
-
On 2005-12-06 10:31:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:
"Yes, I know of a great facility for your daughter.........I'm not sure if you have heard of it or not? It's called HOME!!!"
Good Answer! It's a damn shame society has taught parents it's ok to send their own child away to some strangers. Why do parents think that some facility can fix their child by some mysterious means. These places actually take teens out of society, cut off all communication, take away any chance they may have for real treatment in the future and destroy their souls. I will never understand why parents just throw up their hands and cart the kid off to a storage facility. I will never understand why society allows it. So weak.
-
On 2005-12-06 11:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-06 10:31:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:
"Yes, I know of a great facility for your daughter.........I'm not sure if you have heard of it or not? It's called HOME!!!"
Good Answer! It's a damn shame society has taught parents it's ok to send their own child away to some strangers. Why do parents think that some facility can fix their child by some mysterious means. These places actually take teens out of society, cut off all communication, take away any chance they may have for real treatment in the future and destroy their souls. I will never understand why parents just throw up their hands and cart the kid off to a storage facility. I will never understand why society allows it. So weak."
No one can possibly understand it,fully, unless they are put in that position themselves.
-
Try showing her some of the posts from the various schools on this board, maybe that will straighten her up. It worked for my Daughter.
She went from being an out of controll teen to a High Honor Roll student! Fear works. I know this because it was one of the tools used against me at Elan when I was a Resident in the early 80's.
Once I threatened to send her there she got serious about life. I now have a beautiful Grandson too. Just a suggestion...
-
I don't think kids grok the social consequences for some of their behaviors either.
For instance, their school handbook might catagorize certain crimes and ouline the punishments. But, unless it is explained in detail, they don't have a clue about the seriousness of say, a felony. The actual consequences and negative effect it could have on their life for years to come.
I don't advocate the scared straight version of this, but I think it is useful for them to somehow be able to tour a detention center/jail. They have no idea what life inside is like unless they've seen it and know the reality. I think they function with the assumption that they live in a decent society that wouldn't tolerate mistreatment, therefore can wrongly assume that it wouldn't be that bad.
Same goes for programs. Let him read the accounts of survivors so he really understands the potential consequences if placed by the court, in god forbid, a state run RTC, wilderness program, or other institution. Be sure he understands the harsh reality of loosing all rights and having the state assume control of his every move.
I consider this a vital part of educating any child, 'struggling' or not. It is your parental duty to ensure that he is informed about the society he is part of, and that includes the ugly truth about how it handles 'misfits', 'undesirables', 'criminals'.
When interviewing potential programs, spell out what you have determined to be his 'issues' and ask them specifically how they will assist him in resolving the past hurt and disappointment. My experience is that they are incapable of empathy and could care less what the underlying problems are. My son was actually forbidden to speak of the problems in his father's home. Considered manipulation. Go figure. They simply seek to modify the behavior, whatever it takes. If that includes abuse, so be it. And they won't loose a minutes sleep about it either, even if he is killed in the process.
On Discipline and Punishment
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... forum=24&0 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12913&forum=24&0)
-
Teenage years are scary.
Among other things, kid brains are still developing. They look like they ought to be little adults. We think they ought to be little adults and the only reason they aren't is that they're rotten.
Truth is, the parts of their brain that govern judgment, impulse control, and the ability to evaluate and understand likely consequences of their behavior are all stil developing.
They aren't just little adults, and they *do* grow out of huge chunks of their problems, after just time.
Which includes figuring out that it's a good idea to get off the drugs and be a little less indiscriminate about who they screw. Being nicer and more polite to people. A realistic understanding of earning a living and personal responsibility.
That doesn't mean everybody grows up. I'm sure we all know people who didn't. But the people who never grow up aren't usually the ones estranged from their parents. They're the mama's boys and daddy's girls still joined to (one of) their parents at the hip.
Teenagers are scary as hell. I know I was. If I knew any that weren't, they were a small minority. The ones who looked unscary to their parents way more often than not had their parents so snowed it wasn't even funny.
I do understand this mom being more than usually scared over her daughter. I wish there were easy solutions that didn't do more harm than good.
Unfortunately, there aren't any easy solutions, and the Programs are just about the worst of the deceptively easy solutions out there.
Because they don't have cameras around, they aren't warm and fuzzy and safe like Brat Camp.
Julie
-
On 2005-12-05 10:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-04 21:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quoted from above: some kids are going to need Residential Treatment or Schools, -END
This is like saying some wives need to be abused."
No its not, all the person is saying is not all kids are the same some need treatment others dont, just like anything else there are people at both ends of the spectrum, everyone needs something different,just the way it is.
Sorry you relate this to violence in the home, hope this isnt something you are living with, or have experienced yourself."
I have bipolar disorder. Sometimes people with what I've got need to be hospitalized or institutionalized. Whether we're children, teens, or adults.
It's not unusual for us to go through periods in our lives where we are immediately dangerous to ourselves and others. How long we stay that way depends on how well we respond to medication, and if we respond physically, how well we comply with taking it.
As a daughter in law of a woman with bipolar disorder, a grand-niece of another, a cousin of another, a parent of another, and having it myself, I know hospitalization and institutionalization are absolute last resorts.
Almost all of the parents I see show up on Fornits are so far away from needing that last resort it's painful, and they start trying to jump the gun straight to institutionalizing their child because the programs make it sound like that's not *exactly* what they're doing. The programs make themselves sound easy and foolproof and like cures. They make them sound like you're just going to spend a big but limited amount of money and your kid is going to come home healthy and be the beautiful, healthy teen you envisioned when you were holding your beautiful baby.
Almost none of these parents has completed the gamut of pre-institutionalization options, most of which are there because they usually *work*. Or their expectations are unrealistic.
The very few who *have* gone through all the pre-institutionalization steps are frequently not looking at the right kind of institution for their kid's needs. And have let the institution they're looking at sell them an impossibly rosy picture of the results they'll get.
If you get a model kid back out of an institution, the kid didn't need to be there in the first place. You could have gotten more good with less harm by a less severe option than an institution.
If your kid really *needs* to go in an institution, when you get her back out, she's still going to be severely mentally screwed up for most of her life. To the point of needing to be on full social security disability, which they don't give out easily. Or to be doing good to be barely hanging on to a paying job most of her life, while always needing significant supportive care from family. If your kid is *not* incurably ill, your kid is *not* sick enough to need to be institutionalized.
Hospitalizations, short-term drug rehab, day-hospitalization programs offered by hospitals in the community that allow the patient to live at home and stay at home after the parents get home from work and on weekends, short term commitment---those are what you need (if you need anything) if your child is not incurably, severely, dangerously, life-long mentally ill--the minority that is the most ill of the most ill with extremely bad cases of bipolar or schizophrenia.
Outpatient therapy of some sort is what you need if your kid's life is in danger not from being suicidal or homicidal, but from bad lifestyle choices. Rehab if there is an actual drug dependency rather than casual abuse.
Juvie is what you need if your kid is a criminal. You need to not rescue your kid from juvie, or institutionalize your kid on your own someplace harsher than juvie (like the programs). You need to let the kid experience exactly the same society-run consequences as a kid in the ghetto for his criminal behavior. You need your criminal kid to learn the lesson that *society* will spank them and doesn't give a crap who their mommy or daddy is. Otherwise the kid can just blame it all off on bad ol' mom and dad. A lot of criminal kids will stay criminal. Letting them go through the full juvie process right off, with a lawyer to make sure they get justice instead of railroaded, is their best chance to learn from their mistakes and eventually become a law-abiding adult.
The Programs all take the attitude towards suicides and psychiatric casualties that you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
If you go through the full, correct order of all the steps before institutionalization of your child or teen, even if you do everything right your kid could still end up a broken egg.
At least if you go through all the steps instead of jumping straight to a Program, you have *less* of a chance of getting a broken egg.
That's my personal opinion.
Julie
-
On 2005-12-03 23:57:00, famjaztique wrote:
"I wonder what you are doing now with your life? Do you think that we evil parents really think of this as "warehousing" our kids until they "act right"??? I don't know what your parents were up to, but as a parent of a child who is slipping away from anything good my consideration of an RTC is out of LOVE!!! For God's sake? What the hell is wrong with some of you? I am really sorry if you suffered real abuse? What was it? Were you sexually abused? Hit in the face? Beaten? Spit on? Shat upon? I keep hearing ABUSE and very little detail of what the abuse was.
Forgive my exasperation, but frankly, I am dealing with a child who thinks that every time someone tells him "no" that THAT is abusive. Yet he seems to have no understanding that saying "F*** YOU" 20 times a day to the people who live him is abusive. What gives?"
90% of the parents of children with pediatric bipolar disorder I know would fall down on their knees and thank God to have your kid.
Your kid is a royal pain in the ass and is probably making terrifyingly dangerous lifestyle choices.
If I could trade that for *my* child's bipolar disorder and learning disability, then for her sake, I would in a heartbeat.
Until you've lived with the fear that your child will be in the kitchen getting a glass of milk one minute and taking a swan dive out of an upper story window the next, you don't know what a tough parenting situation is.
Your kid has a miniscule chance of dying from driving drunk or some other stupid teenage stunt. *My* kid has an 11% chance, even with the very best treatment available, of dying by suicide from what she has.
Tell me again how hard you've got it with *your* kid.
Julie
-
On 2005-12-06 16:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-03 23:57:00, famjaztique wrote:
"I wonder what you are doing now with your life? Do you think that we evil parents really think of this as "warehousing" our kids until they "act right"??? I don't know what your parents were up to, but as a parent of a child who is slipping away from anything good my consideration of an RTC is out of LOVE!!! For God's sake? What the hell is wrong with some of you? I am really sorry if you suffered real abuse? What was it? Were you sexually abused? Hit in the face? Beaten? Spit on? Shat upon? I keep hearing ABUSE and very little detail of what the abuse was.
Forgive my exasperation, but frankly, I am dealing with a child who thinks that every time someone tells him "no" that THAT is abusive. Yet he seems to have no understanding that saying "F*** YOU" 20 times a day to the people who live him is abusive. What gives?"
90% of the parents of children with pediatric bipolar disorder I know would fall down on their knees and thank God to have your kid.
Your kid is a royal pain in the ass and is probably making terrifyingly dangerous lifestyle choices.
If I could trade that for *my* child's bipolar disorder and learning disability, then for her sake, I would in a heartbeat.
Until you've lived with the fear that your child will be in the kitchen getting a glass of milk one minute and taking a swan dive out of an upper story window the next, you don't know what a tough parenting situation is.
Your kid has a miniscule chance of dying from driving drunk or some other stupid teenage stunt. *My* kid has an 11% chance, even with the very best treatment available, of dying by suicide from what she has.
Tell me again how hard you've got it with *your* kid.
Julie"
There is no way you can compare one kid to another, ones level of fear vs another. One parent may have a child who is a gang leader and faces death every day and doesnt care, while another may have a child who got a "C-" in Math and cant sleep all night in fear their child will never make it on their own.
If you told me my child had a 0.0001% chance of dieing in a car crash or suicide I would say thats too high.
I think its the old "Grass is always greener" syndrome
-
"Tell me again how hard you've got it with *your* kid. "
Actually, I may also be dealing with a bipolar disorder and learning disability with my son. I'm working to get that all figured out. Your situation sounds scary, but to me mine is no less scary. However many children you have, and whatever their situation, you give 100% of your love and worry to them. My worrying is no less real or unwarranted than yours. My heart goes out to you and your child and I hope for the best possible outcome for you. There is a really wonderful book for you to read, and at some point for your daughter as well (if you haven't already read it). It's called "An Unquiet Mind". It is written by a woman with bipolar and her journey through it. There is hope and this book offers a no nonsense real experience of it.
-
http://www.enterthefreudianslip.com/sur ... ential.htm (http://www.enterthefreudianslip.com/surgeon_general_mental_health_ch3_treatment_interventions_residential.htm)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 320#151333 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3515&forum=9&start=320#151333)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... forum=24&0 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12913&forum=24&0)
-
On 2005-12-07 05:36:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"You know in all my experience in working with kids in a RTC setting who were diagnosed with Bipoloar disorder I rarely ever saw a successful graduate. RTC is a crappy place to expect a kid to be successful with this kind of condition. I would instead focus on the drug use, and other things and leave the Bipolar disorder to qualified medical professionals.
If you seriously think Behavior Modification is the solution for a kid with Bipolar D. then you are half off your rocker. If anything it is asking for a kid who is more defiant, and opposed to any form of treatment in the end. Best to think long and hard about what you expect out of an RTC.
Last hint if they are promising they can help with Bipolarity then they are smoking crack.
Shout out to my homie Nonconformist law... long time no see!We must create an atmosphere where the crooked cop fears the honest cop, and not the other way around.
Frank Serpico
"
Yes I agree Bipolar is tough to crack, RTC isnt the best place for them unless they have the expertise or therapy to go along with the Behavior mod. Do your home work and see if you can talk to some parents who have sent their kids there with bipolar, worth a shot
-
Yes I agree Bipolar is tough to crack, RTC isnt the best place for them unless they have the expertise or therapy to go along with the Behavior mod. Do your home work and see if you can talk to some parents who have sent their kids there with bipolar, worth a shot
I hope you are not seriously considering placing a Bipolar teen, or any teen with a serious mental condition in an RTC or Behavior Mod. Ever. I have done my homework, and if you'd like to help your child, this is the last place you'd want them. Trust me.
-
How would a RTC 'treat' Bipolar anyway?
Or, for that matter, anything? I started a 40+ page thread called " how about some damn answers " and nobody had a single straight answer about how the treatment is done or how the changes occur (except implied torture and coersion) besides "seminars".
You can brainwash away Bipolar disorder!I think the human race encountered Peak Intelligence decades or centuries ago. The human race has been degrading into imbeciles ever since.
Eric Hufschmid
-
On 2005-12-07 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes I agree Bipolar is tough to crack, RTC isnt the best place for them unless they have the expertise or therapy to go along with the Behavior mod. Do your home work and see if you can talk to some parents who have sent their kids there with bipolar, worth a shot
I hope you are not seriously considering placing a Bipolar teen, or any teen with a serious mental condition in an RTC or Behavior Mod. Ever. I have done my homework, and if you'd like to help your child, this is the last place you'd want them. Trust me."
I second that one. DONT DO IT. :scared: :scared:
-
I would ABSOLUTELY NOT recommend sending a bipolar child to a "behavior modification boarding school".
-
On 2005-12-09 06:22:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"I would ABSOLUTELY NOT recommend sending a bipolar child to a "behavior modification boarding school".
"
:tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:
-
I repeat - how the fuck does a RTC treat anything, and what DOES it treat, if anything?
Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
-
On 2005-12-09 10:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I repeat - how the fuck does a RTC treat anything, and what DOES it treat, if anything?Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
"
RTCs dont treat anything its all about the money.
-
On 2005-12-09 10:42:00, screann wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I repeat - how the fuck does a RTC treat anything, and what DOES it treat, if anything?Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
"
RTCs dont treat anything its all about the money."
Like anything else, some kids do well others dont. They are definitely not for everyone, like Bipolar etc. there are problems that kids are having that cant be solved by RTC, like some posters where saying earlier. If you talk to kids who have been thru one you get a better sense as to what they do. Some are angry and hurt that their family put them there and may gain little or no personal growth, others really excel before and after graduation.
Some people on previous posts mentioned that a child?s perspective can change as much as 5 years after graduation, so the kids who are angry initially may come around to see that the school was a benefit later on when they feel more settled with there lives and vice versa I guess. If you visit a few web sites you can see how each school differs and what they offer, most are very expensive (not for the budget minded).
Hope that helped.
-
On 2005-12-09 11:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:42:00, screann wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I repeat - how the fuck does a RTC treat anything, and what DOES it treat, if anything?Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
"
RTCs dont treat anything its all about the money."
Like anything else, some kids do well others dont. They are definitely not for everyone, like Bipolar etc. there are problems that kids are having that cant be solved by RTC, like some posters where saying earlier. If you talk to kids who have been thru one you get a better sense as to what they do. Some are angry and hurt that their family put them there and may gain little or no personal growth, others really excel before and after graduation.
Some people on previous posts mentioned that a child?s perspective can change as much as 5 years after graduation, so the kids who are angry initially may come around to see that the school was a benefit later on when they feel more settled with there lives and vice versa I guess. If you visit a few web sites you can see how each school differs and what they offer, most are very expensive (not for the budget minded).
Hope that helped.
"
Why is it if tha someone asks a direct, simple, straight question, the only answer anyone gets except "it doesnt" is a bunch of vague bullshit that does everything but answer the question we asked?
HOW DOES IT DO ANYTHING? Whether or not the child chooses to play along or resist, how does it work? What does it do? How does it do it? Why are they kept in captivity and tortured until they go along with it?
Why is the only thing I've been able to get out of anyone simply saying that they way it works is coersing them into repeating what theyre told, doing as told, and participating in humiliating, traumatic mindgames, and punishing misbehavior or simple nonparticipation with being painfully restrained with submission holds and/or sat on, being confined to a room and/or placed in bondage, sometimes without being able to relieve themself, or being subject to extremes of hot or cold without adequate clothing, having food withheld, and being watched every second of the day, including while bathing, relieving themselves, or while they sleep to prevent them from talking to eachother or masturbating?
Do you have ANY answers or is the only thing you do throw a crossword puzzle of red herrings and dodge the question by trying to confuse everything by talking about 15 things nobody brought up? No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
-
The only thing it does is get the problem child out of the parents face. So the parent can pretend they are ok and lay blame soley on their child. What parents don't realize is it only makes the real problem even worse, but that doesn't matter because they are looking for a quick fix that they themselves do not have to endure.
Parents say what you want- ie**Oh but we had to drive to meetings...**WTF cares, you go/went to those meetings for the weekly pat on the back from other parents/staff, telling you; *You're ok and justified for giving up on your kid. And in turn you do the same for the other parents. That is just sick to me.
-
On 2005-12-09 11:56:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 11:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:42:00, screann wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I repeat - how the fuck does a RTC treat anything, and what DOES it treat, if anything?Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
"
RTCs dont treat anything its all about the money."
Like anything else, some kids do well others dont. They are definitely not for everyone, like Bipolar etc. there are problems that kids are having that cant be solved by RTC, like some posters where saying earlier. If you talk to kids who have been thru one you get a better sense as to what they do. Some are angry and hurt that their family put them there and may gain little or no personal growth, others really excel before and after graduation.
Some people on previous posts mentioned that a child?s perspective can change as much as 5 years after graduation, so the kids who are angry initially may come around to see that the school was a benefit later on when they feel more settled with there lives and vice versa I guess. If you visit a few web sites you can see how each school differs and what they offer, most are very expensive (not for the budget minded).
Hope that helped.
"
Why is it if tha someone asks a direct, simple, straight question, the only answer anyone gets except "it doesnt" is a bunch of vague bullshit that does everything but answer the question we asked?
HOW DOES IT DO ANYTHING? Whether or not the child chooses to play along or resist, how does it work? What does it do? How does it do it? Why are they kept in captivity and tortured until they go along with it?
Why is the only thing I've been able to get out of anyone simply saying that they way it works is coersing them into repeating what theyre told, doing as told, and participating in humiliating, traumatic mindgames, and punishing misbehavior or simple nonparticipation with being painfully restrained with submission holds and/or sat on, being confined to a room and/or placed in bondage, sometimes without being able to relieve themself, or being subject to extremes of hot or cold without adequate clothing, having food withheld, and being watched every second of the day, including while bathing, relieving themselves, or while they sleep to prevent them from talking to eachother or masturbating?
Do you have ANY answers or is the only thing you do throw a crossword puzzle of red herrings and dodge the question by trying to confuse everything by talking about 15 things nobody brought up? No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"
I can tell you have a hard time communicating with people or getting them to listen to you, lots of anger. Sorry just pointing you towards the answers you were looking for. You have to do a little work yourselves to find the answers, I have done my research, but I find people need to see for themselves. Talk to the graduates!!!!
-
On 2005-12-09 13:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 11:56:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 11:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:42:00, screann wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I repeat - how the fuck does a RTC treat anything, and what DOES it treat, if anything?Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
"
RTCs dont treat anything its all about the money."
Like anything else, some kids do well others dont. They are definitely not for everyone, like Bipolar etc. there are problems that kids are having that cant be solved by RTC, like some posters where saying earlier. If you talk to kids who have been thru one you get a better sense as to what they do. Some are angry and hurt that their family put them there and may gain little or no personal growth, others really excel before and after graduation.
Some people on previous posts mentioned that a child?s perspective can change as much as 5 years after graduation, so the kids who are angry initially may come around to see that the school was a benefit later on when they feel more settled with there lives and vice versa I guess. If you visit a few web sites you can see how each school differs and what they offer, most are very expensive (not for the budget minded).
Hope that helped.
"
Why is it if tha someone asks a direct, simple, straight question, the only answer anyone gets except "it doesnt" is a bunch of vague bullshit that does everything but answer the question we asked?
HOW DOES IT DO ANYTHING? Whether or not the child chooses to play along or resist, how does it work? What does it do? How does it do it? Why are they kept in captivity and tortured until they go along with it?
Why is the only thing I've been able to get out of anyone simply saying that they way it works is coersing them into repeating what theyre told, doing as told, and participating in humiliating, traumatic mindgames, and punishing misbehavior or simple nonparticipation with being painfully restrained with submission holds and/or sat on, being confined to a room and/or placed in bondage, sometimes without being able to relieve themself, or being subject to extremes of hot or cold without adequate clothing, having food withheld, and being watched every second of the day, including while bathing, relieving themselves, or while they sleep to prevent them from talking to eachother or masturbating?
Do you have ANY answers or is the only thing you do throw a crossword puzzle of red herrings and dodge the question by trying to confuse everything by talking about 15 things nobody brought up? No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"
Sorry just pointing you towards the answers you were looking for. You have to do a little work yourselves to find the answers, I have done my research, but I find people need to see for themselves. Talk to the graduates!!!!"
Ah, youre fun. Lets break this down:
1. I can tell you have a hard time communicating with people or getting them to listen to you, lots of anger.
Red herring. Youre not a liscensed therapist, so you cant make that determination. Thats also an ad-hominem attack.
2. You have to do a little work yourselves to find the answers, I have done my research, but I find people need to see for themselves.
I have checked. I have researched. Ive created a 40+ page thread asking about this. What I have found is they do not do therapy, instead the people who support it dodge the question or attack the people asking the questions while what really goes on is little more than a regime of control and regression via humiliation and unpleasantness through being watched every second of every day, mind games in the form of raps, seminars, or some other sort of confrontational bullshit, and severe "structure" (more like arbirtrary bullshit to keep you on your toes) that is met with swift, extreme punishment if you break any of those rules which usually consists of painful restraint in the form of submission holds, being locked in isolation, losing food, etc.
So, I do have the answer, I just like to ask it to people who do everything they can to avoid actually addressing it. I have seen the answers for myself.
3. Talk to the graduates!!!!
Ive talked to several. They all say its bullshit in various different ways, ranging from being merely ineffective to utterly abusive.
Is that ALL you have?
Can ANYONE answer the question without trying to dodge, give me the catch of the day in red herring form or attack me... or muddle and confuse everything by answering 15 questions nobody asked?
:rofl: you're pathetic.Ardent advocates of prohibition were obsessed by a zeal that bordered on fanaticism. They supported politicians who voted to outlaw liquor, no matter how much of it they privately consumed, and spurned politicians who voted against prohibition, no matter how sober they were personally.
Sen. Sam Ervin, Preserving The Constitution
-
On 2005-12-09 14:04:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 13:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 11:56:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 11:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:42:00, screann wrote:
"
On 2005-12-09 10:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I repeat - how the fuck does a RTC treat anything, and what DOES it treat, if anything?Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
"
RTCs dont treat anything its all about the money."
Like anything else, some kids do well others dont. They are definitely not for everyone, like Bipolar etc. there are problems that kids are having that cant be solved by RTC, like some posters where saying earlier. If you talk to kids who have been thru one you get a better sense as to what they do. Some are angry and hurt that their family put them there and may gain little or no personal growth, others really excel before and after graduation.
Some people on previous posts mentioned that a child?s perspective can change as much as 5 years after graduation, so the kids who are angry initially may come around to see that the school was a benefit later on when they feel more settled with there lives and vice versa I guess. If you visit a few web sites you can see how each school differs and what they offer, most are very expensive (not for the budget minded).
Hope that helped.
"
Why is it if tha someone asks a direct, simple, straight question, the only answer anyone gets except "it doesnt" is a bunch of vague bullshit that does everything but answer the question we asked?
HOW DOES IT DO ANYTHING? Whether or not the child chooses to play along or resist, how does it work? What does it do? How does it do it? Why are they kept in captivity and tortured until they go along with it?
Why is the only thing I've been able to get out of anyone simply saying that they way it works is coersing them into repeating what theyre told, doing as told, and participating in humiliating, traumatic mindgames, and punishing misbehavior or simple nonparticipation with being painfully restrained with submission holds and/or sat on, being confined to a room and/or placed in bondage, sometimes without being able to relieve themself, or being subject to extremes of hot or cold without adequate clothing, having food withheld, and being watched every second of the day, including while bathing, relieving themselves, or while they sleep to prevent them from talking to eachother or masturbating?
Do you have ANY answers or is the only thing you do throw a crossword puzzle of red herrings and dodge the question by trying to confuse everything by talking about 15 things nobody brought up? No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"
Sorry just pointing you towards the answers you were looking for. You have to do a little work yourselves to find the answers, I have done my research, but I find people need to see for themselves. Talk to the graduates!!!!"
Ah, youre fun. Lets break this down:
1. I can tell you have a hard time communicating with people or getting them to listen to you, lots of anger.
Red herring. Youre not a liscensed therapist, so you cant make that determination. Thats also an ad-hominem attack.
2. You have to do a little work yourselves to find the answers, I have done my research, but I find people need to see for themselves.
I have checked. I have researched. Ive created a 40+ page thread asking about this. What I have found is they do not do therapy, instead the people who support it dodge the question or attack the people asking the questions while what really goes on is little more than a regime of control and regression via humiliation and unpleasantness through being watched every second of every day, mind games in the form of raps, seminars, or some other sort of confrontational bullshit, and severe "structure" (more like arbirtrary bullshit to keep you on your toes) that is met with swift, extreme punishment if you break any of those rules which usually consists of painful restraint in the form of submission holds, being locked in isolation, losing food, etc.
So, I do have the answer, I just like to ask it to people who do everything they can to avoid actually addressing it. I have seen the answers for myself.
3. Talk to the graduates!!!!
Ive talked to several. They all say its bullshit in various different ways, ranging from being merely ineffective to utterly abusive.
Is that ALL you have?
Can ANYONE answer the question without trying to dodge, give me the catch of the day in red herring form or attack me... or muddle and confuse everything by answering 15 questions nobody asked?
:rofl: you're pathetic.Ardent advocates of prohibition were obsessed by a zeal that bordered on fanaticism. They supported politicians who voted to outlaw liquor, no matter how much of it they privately consumed, and spurned politicians who voted against prohibition, no matter how sober they were personally.
Sen. Sam Ervin, Preserving The Constitution
"
You seem to like to bully people, calm communication works best for me.
I dont think the number of pages is any true indication of expertise, one would have to consider font size single or double space and the big question where there pictures? I am sorry not very professional, but I couldnt resist. Size isnt everything.
No not a therapist, not even close. Know several parents and children who have attended various programs. They all did well except one we dont know about who just left for New York and will not talk to his family, (He may be doing the best !!) His family life was, to say it nicely, challenging.
Yes I have given birth to some kids myself which puts me in the category of evil from the get-go for some on this forum. Someday a few a you will forget your condom and join the dark side and everyone here will hate you.
To answer your question (as I see it) RTCs can be a haven for kids who are not thriving at home, who may lack structure in their lives, who have a tough time with their peers, family authority. They try to provide a safe place for the child to grow and overcome any inner obstacles. Sometimes the family is the problem and just removing them from that environment is enough to get the kid back on track with his life, school work personal growth etc.
The word "treatment", not sure, maybe treating the kid to a better life. or maybe like "Taco Bell" I understand the Taco part but whats up with the bell? Maybe it just sounds better.
-
***You seem to like to bully people, calm communication works best for me.
Niles, you really must learn to disguise your bulling in calm communication. You know bullying/ confrontation is not acceptable in the real world, only in programs. People in the civilized world expect respect.
-
I'd like to suggest that you look into Del Amo in Southern California. It's near your home - they allow and encourage visitation. They have both an inpatient and outpatient program.
Provo Canyon would be a disappointment for you. They also discourage parent/child contact for the first few months. We had a terrible experience there with our child. Best wishes to you. Here's the link.
https://www.delamotreatment.com/indexnew.html (https://www.delamotreatment.com/indexnew.html)All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
-
You seem to like to bully people, calm communication works best for me.
I dont think the number of pages is any true indication of expertise, one would have to consider font size single or double space and the big question where there pictures? I am sorry not very professional, but I couldnt resist. Size isnt everything.
No not a therapist, not even close. Know several parents and children who have attended various programs. They all did well except one we dont know about who just left for New York and will not talk to his family, (He may be doing the best !!) His family life was, to say it nicely, challenging.
Yes I have given birth to some kids myself which puts me in the category of evil from the get-go for some on this forum. Someday a few a you will forget your condom and join the dark side and everyone here will hate you.
To answer your question (as I see it) RTCs can be a haven for kids who are not thriving at home, who may lack structure in their lives, who have a tough time with their peers, family authority. They try to provide a safe place for the child to grow and overcome any inner obstacles. Sometimes the family is the problem and just removing them from that environment is enough to get the kid back on track with his life, school work personal growth etc.
The word "treatment", not sure, maybe treating the kid to a better life. or maybe like "Taco Bell" I understand the Taco part but whats up with the bell? Maybe it just sounds better.
You accuse me of bullying in a post that didnt have attacks against anyone, and then try to thinly veil insults against me, and then say utter bullshit about how we hate parents? :wstupid: Never underestimate the power of the status quo...America's schools are part of government, subject to public whim and will. By and large, we have the kind of schools that people want. While they acknowledge the need for improvement, in other people's schools, most American are reasonably content with their own.
--Former public school superintendent Ronald J. Perry, 1992.
-
On 2005-12-09 17:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
***You seem to like to bully people, calm communication works best for me.
Niles, you really must learn to disguise your bulling in calm communication. You know bullying/ confrontation is not acceptable in the real world, only in programs. People in the civilized world expect respect.
"
How did I bully anyone in my last post that was accused of being bullying?
Also, why dont these programs respect the children in them? Recriprocation is something I expect and they should expect it too. "Golden Rule" mean anything to ya?"When did I realize it? Well, one day I was praying and suddenly realized I was talking to myself."
--God
-
How would you know if those kids are doing okay? How would you know if they were messed up and playing along so they wont get sent back? You wouldnt. Youre not a therapist - and even if you were, youd have to see them and earn their confidence before theyd tell you something like that.
I am not sure how to answer that. I just do because I have met them and know them. I knew them before and after. Based on what you say none of us really know if a kid is messed up or not, before or after the program, unless we are therapists. A kid could lie and say the program screwed him up just to piss his parents off for spending his inheritance and sending him there. When deep down inside he is happy he went. Or the opposite could be true, so based on that logic, it is possible and you could be right for some instances.
Programs are not able to judge if a child has a problem with "lack of structure", or "tough time w/ith their peers, or "family authority".
But the childs therapist or counselor might. Typically a child is evaluated prior to entering a RTC by a third party i.e. hospital, therapist, counselor. They do this to see if the child is a good match for their particular program (model) and has a good chance for success. If they dont fit the requirements they are, in most cases, given other options or names of programs which may be better suited for the child.
Also, if family is the problem, and "removing them" helps by putting them somewhere else, then yes, if their family is a problem and theyre gone it would be good for the child if they WERE in a 'haven'.
refuge or rest, not necessarily rest, I agree. But a refuge from what ever it is that they need to get away from.
Thanks for the [Quote)] tip! What does "Heres a cookie" mean?
-
I am not sure how to answer that. I just do because I have met them and know them. I knew them before and after. Based on what you say none of us really know if a kid is messed up or not, before or after the program, unless we are therapists. A kid could lie and say the program screwed him up just to piss his parents off for spending his inheritance and sending him there. When deep down inside he is happy he went. Or the opposite could be true, so based on that logic, it is possible and you could be right for some instances.
Right, a kid could lie just to spite the parents. Also, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that if the place isnt abusive they'd lie that bad, in such great numbers, ALL SAYING THE SAME THING FOR THE PAST TWENTY YEARS FROM ACCROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY! Its not all about parent VS child, anyway!! Im sure that if they WERE abused and theres a "30 day warranty" that you get 30 days of free programming if the kid doesnt act the way the parents want, theyd do what they could to stay out of the program.
Also, I dont know if you noticed this, but it seems a lot of what the parents care about is how the child is acting and what they do - not the childs wellbeing. They say more about "WELL HES IN X CLUB IN X COLLEGE GETTING GOOD GRADES MHM" or obedience than their true happiness.
But the childs therapist or counselor might. Typically a child is evaluated prior to entering a RTC by a third party i.e. hospital, therapist, counselor. They do this to see if the child is a good match for their particular program (model) and has a good chance for success. If they dont fit the requirements they are, in most cases, given other options or names of programs which may be better suited for the child.
I have yet to see ANY evidence of that whatsoever, sorry. When I hear repots of children going in for not agreeing with their stepmom, or bad grades, or simple depression, or homosexual love poems in a diary, and then see no checks and balances, and the fact that its very much PROFIT DRIVEN, or the story of abused children going for 'therapy', or the litany of children with no real, severe problems going to programs, I gotta call bullshit on this.
Hell, just ask Helenahandbasket. She was put away for REVENGE becuase her MOM was the fucking drunk!
I dare you to find me ONE instance of a program turning a cash co... a child, away.
refuge or rest, not necessarily rest, I agree. But a refuge from what ever it is that they need to get away from.
So, a refuge from a burning house is anything thats not on fire, even if its a gulag?
Sorry, thats bullshit.Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.
-- Margaret Mead
-
Hell, just ask Helenahandbasket. She was put away for REVENGE becuase her MOM was the fucking drunk!
It's true - breaking a drunk's bottles or pouring out their booze is indicative of "Druggie Behavior".
... and Niles, you know Handbasket is my last name :grin:
-
***Typically a child is evaluated prior to entering a RTC by a third party i.e. hospital, therapist, counselor. They do this to see if the child is a good match for their particular program (model) and has a good chance for success. If they dont fit the requirements they are, in most cases, given other options or names of programs which may be better suited for the child.
That's a crock. Which programs require a pre-eval? There's a parent in the Aspen forum telling how she demanded an eval five months into the program, only to find they couldn't help her son with his 'problem'.
-
"Typically a child is evaluated prior to entering a RTC by a third party i.e. hospital, therapist, counselor. They do this to see if the child is a good match for their particular program (model) and has a good chance for success. If they dont fit the requirements they are, in most cases, given other options or names of programs which may be better suited for the child."
This is a complete and total lie. Parents fill out questionaires about their kid and the RTC just slaps on a label based on what the parent said.
Working at one of these places I saw dozens of kids come in and were summarily labeled "ODD" without ever having received any evaluation of any kind whatsoever.
I know for a fact what you're saying is utter nonsense.
-
Sorry -- I cant speak to what I dont know. I am telling of my own experiences. I know first hand of people who were turned down by ASR after they were evaluated by a third party. I am not saying all kids are required because I dont know that, none of us do. But they require an evaluation of atleast some children. Kids that have graduated, look back and remember it was called the "Bubble" because it was a safe place to be. Maybe that is a double edge sword, because after they left it was difficult being outside the "Bubble" and readjusting to everyday life. But during the time there, atleast some of them, felt they were in a safe place, maybe all of them (but I never met all of them so I dont really know).
I do have to say that anyone who claims to know every aspect or every program, is really fooling himself and the one flinging the BS. You should speak about what you know about. What I am talking about is what I personally know. If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.