Post by: Withdraw on November 12, 2005, 05:44:00 PM
One thing that I keep thinking about is ~ What it meant to be frozen on Day Zero. I have some memory blocks there. I know I could not progress, could not apply for T&R, lived on "consequences, deprived in so many ways of the tools to physically exist w/integrity. But ONE thing that I am having faint memories of is: I wasn't allowed to speak. I was allowed to express my ~needs(asking for food, drink, etc..) even at Host homes. But I wasn't allowed to actually speak, *unless I was ready to comply. So staff would "stand me up for the ritual breakdown of my soul", then try to coerce a compliance from me after. Of which I would deny or be inable to pretend to comply. On those days....Host home would become hell..No sleep nights, "suicide watch nights", extreme restriction of nutrition. Exhusted, I would continue on, sitting there on my hands looking at the floor. During these times is when some person next to me would try to force me to motivate or face forward, etc.. Then that would lead to the violent restrainings for hours. Which in turn lead to the "standing me up degrading me once again" And the cycle would start again.
I look back and have to think: What was I thinking during all that, What made me ~inable to pretend to comply. How was I affected on a daily basis, what coping mechinism did I use to escape enough to just sit on my hands. What was it really like to be there with no way out and restricted to speak for 6.5 consecutive months.
See, I hear many of you saying you made some kind of progression, but I didn't. I was literally frozen at Day Zero for all that time. There was no "set back" for me. See for me, I was deprived and abused that entire time. I'm trying to express, I didn't get a break from the abuse.
Was it diffrent for those who progressed (even a tiny bit) psychologically? Did you get any relief from having some privledges(sp)? Like School, phone use, a little bit of freedom, some responsibilities. I read here about "phasers" having some diffrent issues than I. Like having to "be aware", constanly getting honest, making "straight-approved" choices in public, having responsibility of newcommers(other lives), feelings- due to having to show compliance by participating in the treatment of lower phasers. I see how all that was just as torturing as what happened to me.
I am in no way trying to minimize anyones experience. But I do see how it was diffrent, and how we all responded diffrently. But what asspects of our individual experiences influenced and ultimately harmed us.
For me, I think I was most influenced by Day Zero, because the consequences of Day Zero lasted the entire time for me. It never stopped or lightened up. Then poof! One day w/o notice, My parents took me home after an open meeting. I had shut down almost entirely for 6.5 months deprived of humaness and upon arrival home, I was expected to ~preform like a perfect teenager. I never had any therapy or professional decompression. I was scared to death, I didn't even know how to be a human anymore. I had not had any type of schooling during that time, and w/in 3 days I was back in school. I had no idea how to act or who I was anymore, Yet I was expected to perform "normally". I failed miserably. In some ways I am still failing and still unsure how to perfrom acceptably in social situations.
We're we supposed to get some "re-training" on higher phases? Is that what happened? I mean, I know phasers say they were Straght-trained, and that is how you acted in the world. But what if you had ~No re-training? What effect would that have? Is that where we differ? Is No re-training diffrent than Phaser-training? Or is it the same with the same long term consquence? I am truly not understanding. All I know is Day Zero. I have read 2 words over the past couple days "Decompression" and "re-training/learning". These are the 2 things I have been deprived of entirely. Was it because I never left Day Zero?
*Disclaimer- I do not wish to minimize anyones experience or seperate Straight Survivors. I do want to understand what happen to me diffrently, because I never left Day Zero.
Post by: Withdraw on November 12, 2005, 05:56:00 PM
I think DFAF should be forced to re-organize or fund an organization to provide such direction for those still lost in the abuse of places like Straight Inc.
Post by: Antigen on November 12, 2005, 08:44:00 PM
Yes, it got a little easier as you got more freedom and distance from the total subjugation of first phase. I never did put much stock in phases and status. Most of the time, when I can remember something that happened there, I can't remember who were the newcomers and who were the oldcomers. Since my parents lived out of town, I never went home, just to another host home. So there wasn't any really significant marker on which to hang a memory.
But certainly, being allowed to take a fucking hot bath all alone AND read a book after some 9 months or so was fan fucking tastic! Didn't happen till I made 4th phase, and even then those daze off were mostly theoretical. There were always newcomers to drop off and pick up or permissions to pretend to enjoy w/ people you pretended to like. I think I actually got about 2 afternoons off during the whole 2 years. So it wasn't that much help. Most ppl spent their first few daze off trying to catch up on sleep. I think, at one point, staff actually banned sleeping on daze off, just like we were never allowed to sleep in the car.
I don't think it's so much that the Programing was beneficial as it was that you got a chance to back away slowly and inconspicuously and sort of ease back into something close to normal living. I don't know what it would have been like to have graduated. My guess is it would have sucked more, as I was stuck on pretraining for staff and I'm not sure how I could have gotten out of that.
I'm a PATRIOT because I believe in the nations ability to un-fuck itself.
--Nihilanthic
Post by: Antigen on November 12, 2005, 08:51:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 14:56:00, Withdraw wrote:
"Or was it the same for everyone no matter what stage of the program we each experienced? I am trying to get on "the same page" as everyone else, while keeping my individual experiences as my own~ They are mine damit! I earned them.~ So I am looking for "common Ground" again. Where we can all stand equally, and validated equally. If it was decopression and re-training I missed out on, I want it. I want to find someone who can help me through that process. Like those 2 life-coaches on "Starting Over".
I think it's a double edged sword. What the higher phases were really about was self surveilance. The Program personality was all about "graduating" up from having the Program forced on you w/ no choice at all to fully policing, snitching and generally harassing yourself. Some people took to it more than others. Shit, talk to my brother, Thom some time. He was 14 when he went in and not an addict. To this day, 30 years later, he's still warmly grateful to good old Art and all the staff and group for giving him the tools to use to straighten his ass out 20 odd years later when he was finally done drinking his way out of whatever the hell they did to him in the Seed.
Quote
I think DFAF should be forced to re-organize or fund an organization to provide such direction for those still lost in the abuse of places like Straight Inc."
No fuckin' way! We could never trust them to play it straight. I don't think they're even capable of being truthful or honest about this stuff. They're complete zealots, totally dedicated, they'd just lie, cheat and steal for their higher purpose.
If there is a God, he is a malign thug.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
Post by: Withdraw on November 12, 2005, 09:20:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on November 12, 2005, 10:54:00 PM
i graduated(after4cop-outs and a court-order)in Feb of 87 after 23 months. i sat with my hand down a couple times for like a month(after returnin' from cop-outs 'n' such) and i know the consequences too. But 6.5 months is a long time to be so alone.
Lift me up as you ride by... :skull:
Post by: Antigen on November 12, 2005, 11:58:00 PM
The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2005, 01:19:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 19:54:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Withdraw, i have to live knowing that i surrendered to str8. i was beaten into submission. i aint been the same since. i often reflect on my regret. You are some mythical heroine. A valkyrie riding the stormfront.
i graduated(after4cop-outs and a court-order)in Feb of 87 after 23 months. i sat with my hand down a couple times for like a month(after returnin' from cop-outs 'n' such) and i know the consequences too. But 6.5 months is a long time to be so alone.
Lift me up as you ride by... :skull:
"
Quit worshiping the misbehavors and all that. Just give us a fucking break already. They ain't no more special than any of the rest of us, they just had a different background.
Post by: Withdraw on November 13, 2005, 01:45:00 AM
Although the word Worship is a ~little harsh.. don't ya think :razz:
I don't think being a misbehaver makes me "special". I do think searching for a way to heal and a desire to become an energeticaly powerful woman makes me "special" though. I think having the courage to face the Goddess inside makes me "special". I think ~standing in that power makes me "special". Oh Wow!! That is the first time I have felt anything good about myself in years, Thanks Anon! You have been a great help!
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2005, 02:15:00 AM
-some other baghead
Post by: webcrawler on November 13, 2005, 02:15:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 18:20:00, Withdraw wrote:
"Thank you Ginger for responding, I am crying a little, some of it is sorrow for my experience but most of it is because you didn't take my post and twist it around. Instead you heard me.
I have been thinking and it makes sense to me why I can't move out of this place yet. I really have never gotten a chance to let all that locked up emotion out and learn to live free of it. Being on Day Zero all that time really fucked me up, bad. Even though I didn't comply...they got me. My life stopped and no one has helped me to pick it all back up again and learn to live like everyone else. I feel like I have a direction to look now, I have the words I need to express my desire to heal. And I can understand why I was scarred so deeply.
I meant I think DFAF should be held accountable and forced to fix this. I mainly meant they should be forced to fund an outside organization, regulated by someone safe. We deserve to be given the oppurtunity to Decompress and be re-trained. I was torn down to my very core and no one ever built it back again. I need a life-line and I have no where to turn. Someone needs to put in place, a place we can safely turn to for help in this re-building ourselves. I truly lost myself in that chair looking at the floor, and I want her back, she does belong to me. "
I hear what you are saying WD, but hell I would not trust those people to fund a safe place for me to heal. All the things they would "suggest" for me to heal would just feel like control to me. That was one problem with therapy for me. I just got tired of people saying I needed to do XYZ as if they were somehow more knowledgable of who I was.
I know some survivors haved turned to religion for healing as well, be it Buddist, Christianity, Hindusim, Satanism, whatever, you get the picture. I'm just not interested in subscribing to anyone's agenda on a full scale level.
You are in my thoughts and I hope the pain eases up for you one day.
Post by: Antigen on November 13, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 23:15:00, webcrawler wrote:
I hear what you are saying WD, but hell I would not trust those people to fund a safe place for me to heal. All the things they would "suggest" for me to heal would just feel like control to me. That was one problem with therapy for me. I just got tired of people saying I needed to do XYZ as if they were somehow more knowledgable of who I was
Yeah, exactly that! I think the only safe way to get them to fund any kind of restitution is to sue the hell out of them, take the money and go and do as you will. But most of us are well beyond any chance to sue.
So what to do? I think we have an opportunity here. The reason why Program people are so dangerous is BECAUSE they get pass from our society, not to mention luxurious public housing in the nations capital as well as several states and foreign embassies. I think we have a shot at taking away some of their political currency RIGHT NOW!
Try and imagine an America where we don't have Program propaganda oozing out of every TV, saturating our education system and plastered all over billboards up and down our highways. Just visualize a world where jails and prisons are reserved for the very few people we're truley afraid of, not 2 million of us who pissed off the control freaks.
This is so much bigger than just the overt, fucked up, over the top shit that happens behind closed doors to the children of the terminally gullible drug war followers. The very same people who thought it perfectly good and right to torture us to save us from ourselves also believe they've got The Answer® to the godless muslim problem. Never mind that Semitic cultures are the root of our accademic heritage. Forget that these people invented all of our vaunted political and social philosophy back when Europeans were still living under feudal warlords. Fuck all that, what these people need (according to the commander in thief and his closest advisors) is some old tyme evangelical Christian religion, a McDonalds, a WalMart and some right thinking, firm fisted Western Judeo-Xtians to manage their affairs and their money for them.
But THEY BELIEVE IT!!!! I think I understand why the Büsh cabal is so enamored with torture. Everybody knows it doesn't work; that tortured, addled souls don't give lucid, useful or even true information. Intelligence annalysts have been shouting it from the roof tops (cause Faux News won't give them air time) and we all know how that works. Make someone desperate and hopeless and they'll either tell you whatever they believe you want to hear or they'll come unglued and the tormentor can point and laugh at the lunatic.
These crazy bastards believe that torture works and that the info they're getting out of it is valid for the same reason they believe that marijuana is a very dangerous, highly addictive drug. Ask a devout drug warrior for evidence to support that claim. Know what their proof is? They'll cite the number of people "seeking treatment for marijuana addiction". Know where they get those numbers? The sadistic lunatics will stop at nothing, even holding someone's children hostage, to force a victim into "treatment". Then they turn around and claim that the victim came begging for help with their intractible marijuana addiction.
The frightening thing is that THEY BELIEVE THIS SHIT! And they also believe that anyone who doesn't see what is so obvious to them, well their brains COULD USE A GOOD WASHING! Any sign of dissent makes them "afraid, very, very afraid and frightened very, very frightened". And we know how dangerous they become when frightened. I say we scare the living shit out of them, force them to defend their beliefs so they'll say what they really think. Then we just have to sit back and enjoy the show while the nice young men in their clean white coats do their thing.
Now, how can we get the word out? Right now, all the world and even a significant number of Americans, are shaking their heads, asking rhetorically "what could those crazy bastards be thinking?" I think it's high time we move the discussion from the rhetorical to the litteral.
The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on November 13, 2005, 11:56:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 22:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-11-12 19:54:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Withdraw, i have to live knowing that i surrendered to str8. i was beaten into submission. i aint been the same since. i often reflect on my regret. You are some mythical heroine. A valkyrie riding the stormfront.
i graduated(after4cop-outs and a court-order)in Feb of 87 after 23 months. i sat with my hand down a couple times for like a month(after returnin' from cop-outs 'n' such) and i know the consequences too. But 6.5 months is a long time to be so alone.
Lift me up as you ride by... :skull:
"
Quit worshiping the misbehavors and all that. Just give us a fucking break already. They ain't no more special than any of the rest of us, they just had a different background. "
Point taken, duly noted and acknowledged.
Withdraw, i like the way you rode through str8.
Post by: Antigen on November 13, 2005, 12:03:00 PM
Context: http://thestraights.com/people/medical- ... search.htm (http://thestraights.com/people/medical-doctors/medical-research.htm)
Does anyone who sat in group gouging up their arms or watching others do it believe that the root cause of this behavior had anything at all to do with drug use? I don't. I'd say, offhand, it probably had more to do w/ the constant stress, scrutiny and violence, the isolation, the total mindfuck that was going on INSIDE the building, not anything going on in the real world outside.
But Richard Schwartz believes it. Now, you'd think an obviously delusional crack-pot like this guy would have been kicked to the curb by soon after publishing such tripe, wouldn't you?
Not down this rabbit hole, he wasn't. No, instead, he's quoted by the DOJ as Professor of Pediatrics at Georgetown University School of Medicine.
http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths2.htm (http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths2.htm)
Oh, and look! Here he is holding forth on the dangers of Marijuana to an Australian audience
Quote
* * * In a survey of one hundred and fifty marijuana using students, 59% surveyed report they sometimes forget what a
conversation is about before it has ended. 41% report that if they read while stoned they remembered less of what they had read hours later. Based on research by of Dr. Richard Schwartz, Vienna Pediatric Associates in
Psychiatric Annals.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~apfdfy/Effects.html (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~apfdfy/Effects.html)
I wonder if that happened before or after Melvin Sembler took up residence in a certain US public housing unit located in Australia?
Rather than getting drummed out of the profession as a nut case, Program proponants have been elevated to the top of the food chain.
I just think people ought to know how bug all nuts these people are. I think that, all by itself, would go a long way toward solving the problem.
Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on November 13, 2005, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2005, 01:32:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on November 13, 2005, 01:42:00 PM
Ardent advocates of prohibition were obsessed by a zeal that bordered on fanaticism. They supported politicians who voted to outlaw liquor, no matter how much of it they privately consumed, and spurned politicians who voted against prohibition, no matter how sober they were personally.
Sen. Sam Ervin, Preserving The Constitution
Post by: seamus on November 13, 2005, 02:28:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on November 13, 2005, 02:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-13 11:28:00, seamus wrote:
Besides ,how can you consider constant,belittlement,ridicule,and psycho-babble mumbojumbo to be therpy in any sense?
The same way these same people can consider constant belittlement, ridicule and psycho-babble mumbojumbo to be an effective and necessary means to acquiring useful military intelligence.
And they'll go on coercing hapless ferners into telling them whatever they want to hear about whoever they'd like to bomb today till they finally drive somebody to the point of nuking us all out of our missery.
Unless a whole lot of people stand up on their hind legs and take their guns away.
You in or you gonna sit this one out?
If it is believed that... elementary schools will be better managed by the governor and council, the commissioners of the literary fund or any other general authority of the government than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.
Thomas Jefferson
Post by: seamus on November 13, 2005, 04:02:00 PM
Post by: Bird on a Wire on November 13, 2005, 04:47:00 PM
Now, the reason I mentioned the coping stuff is that I struggled with the opposite but I think equally torturous response to you while frozen because I kept trying and getting nowhere, hopelessly, day in day out, unable to get up and speak and ignored except when stood up to be ridiculed and confronted. See, from the second I was put in the program, regardless of the fact that I had been lied to by my parents and coerced into going, I literally COULD NOT put my hands down and stop at least trying to get out... because I believed I was stuck till I got myself out, because I was too certain my parents were locked in and brainwashed, because I detest violence and was traumatized by the effects of the restraints every day, because I was from another country and had no clue where the hell I even WAS, to try to run anyway (not to mention that I was there on orders of my parents and was told I would just be screwed if I hit the border because I would be sent back), and for a host of other personal reasons.
I guess the point is that I do believe that each of us has our own "hell low point" and I also think firmly that the being frozen was one of the lowest and more horrible ways of fucking with people's heads and your thread brought this back to me also...
Post by: Rabbi Dopeman on November 14, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 23:15:00, webcrawler wrote:
I know some survivors haved turned to religion for healing as well, be it Buddist, Christianity, Hindusim, Satanism, whatever, you get the picture.
None of these false, mythological belief systems will help you. The Red Temple Cult is the ONLY One True Religion, and most of it's members are atheists, if that tells you anything.
Post by: Froderik on November 14, 2005, 01:30:00 PM
Post by: Rabbi Dopeman on November 14, 2005, 01:33:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on November 14, 2005, 06:52:00 PM
Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine
Post by: NOT12NOW on November 14, 2005, 07:37:00 PM
Did your parents take you out because they were concerned you were not being taken care of; the program wasn't working, you got a message to them in a bottle--or something else? After six months of being a first day newcomer you were just done?
You never gave in?
Post by: Withdraw on November 14, 2005, 09:08:00 PM
I don't know why I got out, They just came and got me on Halloween night, took me from group ( i assumed finally allowed another W/D meeting ) and poof next thing I knew I was in the car otw home.. Which lead to an insane scarey unstable enviroment. Society was not something I had a concept of and in many ways still don't. Straight took that from me.
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2005, 09:21:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-14 15:52:00, Antigen wrote:
"Just don't ever let your dogma run out in front of your karma.Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine
"
Another valuable talent. Quoting bumper stickers. Is that on your resume?
Post by: Withdraw on November 14, 2005, 10:09:00 PM
I didn't really know where I was geographicaly, so running away wasn't an option. I just sat there at a loss of what to do.
I wasn't a violent-out of control misbehaver.. I'd only push peoples hands off me, which led to the almost constant Restrainings
[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2006-02-28 22:39 ]
Post by: Gah on November 15, 2005, 01:00:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on November 15, 2005, 12:14:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-14 18:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
Another valuable talent. Quoting bumper stickers. Is that on your resume? "
That's original material, darlin. Someone put it on a bumper sticker? I'm honored!
We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs
Post by: PerfectStraightling on November 15, 2005, 01:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-14 22:00:00, Gah wrote:
"I was a misbehavor, I had got to 3rd phase at one time. I never finished the program and when I got home, It was hard for me to even go outside, I would ask my mom if I could go to the bathroom and I would like wait like I was waiting for her to come with me. I remember how scary the halls in school were when the bell would ring and kids everywhere. Today I have every window to this house covered. I keep my doors locked. My landlord leaves notes like "heard child inside" lolol I have issues!!!! I still dont feel like I am one of them, a person who is someone. I wish I had answers!"
I also ran away after making it to 3rd phase. Then somehow my dad decided I didn't have to go back and the next thing I knew I was enrolled in summer school in order to keep from failing the 11th grade. I felt so out of place. That was truly shockinng since I hadn't been able to gradually work my way back into society, I was just suddenly back in it. And it seemed alien to me.
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on November 15, 2005, 03:15:00 PM
i copped out twice the minute i got to school. i couldn't stand to be under str8s' control in the building and at host homes, let alone in public and at high school at that. No way was i gonna submit like that. As soon as i saw a friend i knew in the hall at school, i guess that would be a "druggie" friend to those in the program, i went to them for help, and got it, in the form of a ride somewhere safe to hide. My friends never even stopped to think that they could get into trouble for helpin' me. They were cool.
But you know the story...i was hunted and brought back. And after another cop-out i finally had to go along with the program. They(commonwealth of VA, my parents and Str8) were blackmailin' me with threats of jail time.
When i made 3rd phase again, this time with the help of a court order, i got out of goin' back to my regular high school again. i went to adult Ed. instead. It was a real small school. It was an ol' elementery school which had been converted into a senior citizens daycare center(that was on the first floor), along with some of the school districts' administrtive offices. The 2nd floor was where the adult education classes were. i was psyched to be goin' there 'cuz it was like i had pulled some kind of a coup. At the high school i had attended before, WT Woodson, there was all kind o' staff and phasers but at this little adult ed. joint, which was like all the punks and pregnant girls and refugees tryin' to pick up English, there were jus' a couple of cop-outs and a termination or somethin'. A Clockwork Orange Chris was there. i got away with all kinds of shit at that school. i had a couple extra hours between classes which i never mentioned to anyone. i filled out my permissions for school as if i had classes all day, but i scheduled my classes for first thing in the mornin' and late in the afternoon so i would have long breaks in the middle of the day. It was the way the Adult Ed. system was organized that allowed me to use it to my advantage. i would go for long walks every day between classes. i would walk down to the public library and watch classic movies or i would go hang out in the woods or just walk around exploring McClean, VA. Sometimes i would go to sleep in the woods or catch up on my sleep on the bleachers at the ballfield(i was so tired from all the str8 induced anxiety) There were no other phasers or staff at my school, so there was no-one to report my "misbehaviour".
Well, i wanted to say that i still don' feel like i've been re-introduced to society. bein' on the higher phases in str8 just made me feel even weirder when i was in public. i'm sure there are a ton of interesting psychological positions/conditions which could arise from such a social state. str8 alienated me even further from a society which, in my suspicion, i was already pulling away from.
It was always my fantasy that my parents would withdraw me before i had to go through that horrendous trauma of tremendous social humilliation which 3rd, 4th, and 5th phase were. Having explored this now with you , i see how difficult it must have been for you too.
Post by: PerfectStraightling on November 15, 2005, 05:57:00 PM
Post by: Withdraw on November 15, 2005, 06:34:00 PM
It's so weird how Straight forced us into thinking certian ways. They didn't help me one tiny bit, All Straight did was make me so afraid of being tortured and humilated and restrained in that building again, I was/am afraid to be socail with anyone old or new.. it takes a very long time for me to trust anyone or anything. It is hard for me to just be in a building...
I have been thinking (your shocked right??lol) The night they took me from group, it was like my body got up and walked to the car ,went on .... But some elusive part of me was left in that chair. I can still see that me sitting in that chair waiting to be rescued. Anyhow, What would it be like to physically manifest that scenerio again. What would it be like to walk into that same building and go to that chair and rescue myself. Could I actually walk into that room? What would that feel like. What memories would that bring and what kind of closure could it assist with? Does anyone know what the building is being used for? Is it still there? I make a point now to NEVER go to Springfield.
Long ago, I did go back once.. It was the first thing I did when I got my car. I skipped school to go do it, the first day I ever skipped school. I went in and asked to see Leslie Murd3n. She was so nasty and appalled I would come there. I could see the fear in her eyes.. ALL I asked for was my records, Which she denied me and told me to leave the property or she would call the police. I was 17 and she denied me my own Records. She told me I had no right to see any records of mine. They were the property of Straight Inc. ALl I wanted is some proof I was there, Something to make the horrible nightmare real. I look back now and see maybe I was going back to rescue that me still left in the chair. I never got that opportunity.
I wish we knew if our records really exist somewhere :evil: I was denied a copy by Leslie Murd3n and feel I have a right to them!
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2005, 08:13:00 PM
ep
Post by: Antigen on November 15, 2005, 08:30:00 PM
I told Radley to ask them if they'd kindly forward my records to me. Never heard back.
The people's right to change what does not work is one of the greatest
principles in our system of government
--Richard M. Nixon
Post by: Withdraw on November 15, 2005, 09:23:00 PM
ty, ep :cool: [ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-11-15 18:36 ]
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2005, 10:16:00 PM
Let us know if you do find any, especially from the Newton early 80s.
Thanks in advance.
Post by: Antigen on November 15, 2005, 10:52:00 PM
I suppose it would be interesting to know who did have those records and what idiot found them credible. I know there was one location where they litterally just left them laying around the warehouse after they (staff) ran away in the night. I think that's where Wes got a lot of his material. Can't remember which location it was, though. You'd have to ask them.
Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
Post by: Anonymous on November 16, 2005, 02:10:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on November 16, 2005, 03:44:00 AM
Post by: Carmel on November 16, 2005, 09:44:00 AM
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On 2005-11-15 19:52:00, Antigen wrote:
"Really? A lot of people say that, but I don't understand why. Look, the "records" were just whatever presumtuous bullshit some brainwashed teenager had to write in them. It's all nonsense. If anyone ever read my record and decided they didn't like me based on whatever's in it, I'd have to chalk up one more thing I gained from the Program; having saved me the trouble of dealing with another moron.
I suppose it would be interesting to know who did have those records and what idiot found them credible. I know there was one location where they litterally just left them laying around the warehouse after they (staff) ran away in the night. I think that's where Wes got a lot of his material. Can't remember which location it was, though. You'd have to ask them.Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
"
I am fairly certain that everything at the Irving building was just left. I dont know if a deadline was given, but the ax came down quick and with finality. The day before there was a group, and the day after there wasnt; very few kids were transfered to ATL and Orlando. I will have to check with a friend of mine, but I recall that even the computer equipment and furniture was left, everything just abandoned. I am thinking he went up there afterwards to survey the aftermath, but Ill have to ask. He was a former staff member and was involved in several incidents where clients confided to him about being sexually abused by male staff, and interestingly enough these incidents were not what got the place shut down, even though one of them went to jail.
I would assume that whatever was left was trashed by the people who owned the space. I never caught wind of any executive ever even stepping foot back in that building once it was shut down.
Post by: Antigen on November 16, 2005, 10:17:00 AM
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On 2005-11-15 23:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'd like to see what Straight thought was relevent and what was entirely left out. And if they did actually record any part of what was real or did they make up alot of stuff Just for the sake of "keeping records""
Well, if the 5th phase and pretraining obs books are any indication, it was just a lot of the same old tripe that went on in group; "I think Suzanne is having bad thoughts, her face looks hard." sort of bullshit. But I don't know. You'd have to ask someone who had access to client records.
The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected.
Will Rogers, American humorist, political commentator and cowboy philosopher