Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2005, 02:17:00 AM
Check out the Belmont Report and the IRB's requirements/laws on the ethical treatment of subjects in testing.
'nuff said.
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on November 07, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-06 23:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I read somewhere or heard it that Straight was doing some kind of national testing as using it's patients as it's subjects.
Can you or anyone else tell me what is written about Straight/gov testing using Straight patients as test subjects?
I keep hearing this, that we were some kind of govt experiement, but have come across nothing yet that mentions this.
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2005, 11:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-07 09:22:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-11-06 23:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I read somewhere or heard it that Straight was doing some kind of national testing as using it's patients as it's subjects.
Can you or anyone else tell me what is written about Straight/gov testing using Straight patients as test subjects?
I keep hearing this, that we were some kind of govt experiement, but have come across nothing yet that mentions this. "
NonConformist, I wrote the first post here last night and your reasons are the same reasons I was writing it to start. I am with you. I had read somewhere that some of the intake applications are all about free signature for testing of the patient.
See, the only problem with forced signatures is that under the Belmont Reports, now under civil laws, those types of unethical behaviour can get someone in trouble alot. But they did it from what I understand.
Now if I could only find this.
I really wish I could find a copy of the Application itself.
Hey Wes, you got any intake applications runnin around anywheres???
Under Ethical Treatment of Biological Test Patients the patient who is being tested on must be in full awareness of beginning to end of test, they must not be coerced, and also that patient being tested on MUST be allowed to leave at any time and the whole fucking test HAS to be Voluntary. And there's a whole bunch of other nifty stuff that was brought into laws like this around 1970 that involve pure informed consent and non force. Just look up the Belmont Report. I would really like to have a copy of the application to compare to the Belmont Report. I wonder if there would be some shit there that has no statute of limitations on it when it comes to testing on folks and forced signatures.
I know I've read somewhere that alot of what Straight was doing was testing on patients, don't quote me just yet - but that is why I brought all this up in the first place. What kind of sampling or controlled tests on dependent and independent groups and placebo crap they may have been doing I really couldn't tell you at all. But it boggles the mind. See, those kinds of things would have to be on file somewheres if there were lawsuits. Cos' in future there may be more lawsuits. I'm sure someone somewhere has some kind of application from intakes. I can't remember much of my intake at all, its still a blur.
I sure wish ol' Wes or someone with files could shed some light on this subject please. Please?
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on November 09, 2005, 12:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-07 20:12:00, Anonymous wrote:QuoteNonConformist, I wrote the first post here last night and your reasons are the same reasons I was writing it to start. I am with you. I had read somewhere that some of the intake applications are all about free signature for testing of the patient.
On 2005-11-07 09:22:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:QuoteOn 2005-11-06 23:17:00, Anonymous wrote:Can you or anyone else tell me what is written about Straight/gov testing using Straight patients as test subjects?
"I read somewhere or heard it that Straight was doing some kind of national testing as using it's patients as it's subjects.
I keep hearing this, that we were some kind of govt experiement, but have come across nothing yet that mentions this."
See, the only problem with forced signatures is that under the Belmont Reports, now under civil laws, those types of unethical behaviour can get someone in trouble alot. But they did it from what I understand.
Now if I could only find this.
I really wish I could find a copy of the Application itself.
Hey Wes, you got any intake applications runnin around anywheres???
Under Ethical Treatment of Biological Test Patients the patient who is being tested on must be in full awareness of beginning to end of test, they must not be coerced, and also that patient being tested on MUST be allowed to leave at any time and the whole fucking test HAS to be Voluntary. And there's a whole bunch of other nifty stuff that was brought into laws like this around 1970 that involve pure informed consent and non force. Just look up the Belmont Report. I would really like to have a copy of the application to compare to the Belmont Report. I wonder if there would be some shit there that has no statute of limitations on it when it comes to testing on folks and forced signatures.
I know I've read somewhere that alot of what Straight was doing was testing on patients, don't quote me just yet - but that is why I brought all this up in the first place. What kind of sampling or controlled tests on dependent and independent groups and placebo crap they may have been doing I really couldn't tell you at all. But it boggles the mind. See, those kinds of things would have to be on file somewheres if there were lawsuits. Cos' in future there may be more lawsuits. I'm sure someone somewhere has some kind of application from intakes. I can't remember much of my intake at all, its still a blur.
I sure wish ol' Wes or someone with files could shed some light on this subject please. Please?"
If this turns out to be true then I think that will push me over the edge. But being govt. test subjects does not seem like a stretch to me at all.
Hmmmmm.....I think none of us were every allowed to give informed consent....it seems like all of us were deceived....the 14 day lie, you are a druggie lie, etc., the list of lies is endless.
Please post any relevant docs or articles that supports straight clients as govt test subjects if you come across it.
Post by: Antigen on November 09, 2005, 01:09:00 PM
http://thestraights.com/people/medical- ... search.htm (http://thestraights.com/people/medical-doctors/medical-research.htm)
If you want the backstory, why not call up Dr. Richard Schwartz and make an appointment to talk w/ him about it?
If I am of the opinion that it is inexpedient to assign to the government the task of operating railroads, hotels, or mines, I am not an "enemy of the state" any more than I can be called an enemy of sulfuric acid because I am of the opinion that, useful though it may be for many purposes, it is not suitable either for drinking, or for washing one's hands.
Ludwig Von Mises
Post by: Antigen on November 09, 2005, 01:20:00 PM
We are students of words; we are shut up in schools and colleges and recitation rooms for ten or fifteen years and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on November 09, 2005, 01:34:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 10:09:00, Antigen wrote:
"Here's some info on Straight and medical research.
http://thestraights.com/people/medical- ... search.htm (http://thestraights.com/people/medical-doctors/medical-research.htm)
If you want the backstory, why not call up Dr. Richard Schwartz and make an appointment to talk w/ him about it?"
Oh my God....I think I am gonna be sick...........
Post by: Antigen on November 09, 2005, 02:05:00 PM
Just look into any of it and you'll find the same reeking, putrid pile of rotting bullshit promoted by the same relatively small band of sadistic lunatics.
Stop paying them and stop obeying them.
I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
I wonder what the oversight agency is for human research ethics, does that Belmont Report say or does anyone know?
This is a good thing to look into, thanks to whomever brought it up. If it isn't too much trouble, please contact straightincarchives (at) yahoo.com as I wish to ask you a couple things. Thanks.
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2005, 04:33:00 PM
I remember those questioneers, but I never understood where they came from or why I was forced to fill them out. I clearly remember I had NO CHOICE , I either filled out the papers or was harshly punished in front of the entire group, often ending in other teens forcing me to the floor, sitting on me for hours. I remember being coerced by staff as to "how I should answer". I had no idea until today I was used in any "research", however how henious or false it was. I had no idea, untill today, that "results" were published about me. Results that clearly were false and effected by physical coercement. The dates and places those studies were done, I was there! I was there when they passed out that suicide poll.
I feel hollow, non existant, used, decieved, ill, enslaved, abused, damaged, disgusted, confused, displaced, and so much more I can not even find words for.
Any person who let this happen to us deserve to live in great shame with horrifying nightmares of all whom they abused. These people who did this to us deserve to be liable for all damage we suffered to this very day and beyond. We as the teens who endured all and any portion of this deserve Justice. Any person involved from the community on up to our goverment should be held accountable for altering/destroying thousands of lives forever.
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on November 09, 2005, 04:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 11:05:00, Antigen wrote:That is exactly why it literally makes me sick, and the fact that so many people buy their propoganda lies. Its also sickening that our mental and emotional well being was fucked with, without our consent or knowledge, for the sake of generating "research" to support govt propoganda/lies.
"Don't be sick. Just understand that this is the quality of medical research the drug warriors hawk to justify their cruelty and their hunger for coercive control."
Quote
"Just look into any of it and you'll find the same reeking, putrid pile of rotting bullshit promoted by the same relatively small band of sadistic lunatics."
I think your statement here is one for the quotes....couldnt have said it better myself. And that sadistic band of lunatics are at the highest levels of our govt lying to this country every day for profit.......that's just evil in my book.....
Quote
"Stop paying them and stop obeying them."
Fortunately they have never gotten a dime from me personally and I happen to be very disobedient at times, especially when I disagree with self appointed "authorities."
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2005, 06:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 13:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"NCL, you may have some resources at your library there to look up published research... using "straight, inc." as keyword...
I wonder what the oversight agency is for human research ethics, does that Belmont Report say or does anyone know?
This is a good thing to look into, thanks to whomever brought it up. If it isn't too much trouble, please contact straightincarchives (at) yahoo.com as I wish to ask you a couple things. Thanks."
IRB holds that title. They made the Belmont Report. As long as you are not offering biological testing then you don't have to submit IRB reports to the IRB. If you're a piggyback company like KHK or the like today, old sampling and testing speaks on your behalf but not as far as doing any further biological testing. Bush probably makes it easier to get around IRB with this Faith Based Inits. But yeah, when it comes to testing - there are ethics. A.
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2005, 06:53:00 PM
I did even if just to report my experience to them.
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on November 09, 2005, 10:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Reading all that and being faced with the fact I was unknowingly a "test subject" under extreme duress by all the other abuses I endured at the hands of Straight Inc. makes me feel Hollow, like I don't really exist. I feel like I just woke up and am inside "the matrix"
I remember those questioneers, but I never understood where they came from or why I was forced to fill them out. I clearly remember I had NO CHOICE , I either filled out the papers or was harshly punished in front of the entire group, often ending in other teens forcing me to the floor, sitting on me for hours. I remember being coerced by staff as to "how I should answer". I had no idea until today I was used in any "research", however how henious or false it was. I had no idea, untill today, that "results" were published about me. Results that clearly were false and effected by physical coercement. The dates and places those studies were done, I was there! I was there when they passed out that suicide poll.
I feel hollow, non existant, used, decieved, ill, enslaved, abused, damaged, disgusted, confused, displaced, and so much more I can not even find words for.
Any person who let this happen to us deserve to live in great shame with horrifying nightmares of all whom they abused. These people who did this to us deserve to be liable for all damage we suffered to this very day and beyond. We as the teens who endured all and any portion of this deserve Justice. Any person involved from the community on up to our goverment should be held accountable for altering/destroying thousands of lives forever."
In my extreme state of shock, all I could manage to say was this makes me sick(literally, my gut has been in knots ever since)...But you described almost word for word what had raced through my mind since reading about the govt. experiement today. I have one thing to add....I cannot believe this is my reality, our reality. Straight was horrid enough, this however....its just too damn much to cope with. Unfuckingbelievable but yet real. Talk about the Twilight Zone...and then some.
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2005, 10:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 19:26:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-11-09 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Reading all that and being faced with the fact I was unknowingly a "test subject" under extreme duress by all the other abuses I endured at the hands of Straight Inc. makes me feel Hollow, like I don't really exist. I feel like I just woke up and am inside "the matrix"
I remember those questioneers, but I never understood where they came from or why I was forced to fill them out. I clearly remember I had NO CHOICE , I either filled out the papers or was harshly punished in front of the entire group, often ending in other teens forcing me to the floor, sitting on me for hours. I remember being coerced by staff as to "how I should answer". I had no idea until today I was used in any "research", however how henious or false it was. I had no idea, untill today, that "results" were published about me. Results that clearly were false and effected by physical coercement. The dates and places those studies were done, I was there! I was there when they passed out that suicide poll.
I feel hollow, non existant, used, decieved, ill, enslaved, abused, damaged, disgusted, confused, displaced, and so much more I can not even find words for.
Any person who let this happen to us deserve to live in great shame with horrifying nightmares of all whom they abused. These people who did this to us deserve to be liable for all damage we suffered to this very day and beyond. We as the teens who endured all and any portion of this deserve Justice. Any person involved from the community on up to our goverment should be held accountable for altering/destroying thousands of lives forever."
In my extreme state of shock, all I could manage to say was this makes me sick(literally, my gut has been in knots ever since)...But you described almost word for word what had raced through my mind since reading about the govt. experiement today. I have one thing to add....I cannot believe this is my reality, our reality. Straight was horrid enough, this however....its just too damn much to cope with. Unfuckingbelievable but yet real. Talk about the Twilight Zone...and then some."
Not to sound like an idiot but could you paraphrase that report from Wes. I understood it to mean that we were not literally test subjects at Straight, but that mainly the SEED was the one required to have consent forms. That is to say that the only "consent form" I definitively remember signing would have been my intake form and the intake. Was that what would have been a coerced signature as per Wes's report. Perhaps I didn't catch what I was supposed to.
Post by: Antigen on November 10, 2005, 10:46:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 19:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
Not to sound like an idiot but could you paraphrase that report from Wes. I understood it to mean that we were not literally test subjects at Straight, but that mainly the SEED was the one required to have consent forms. That is to say that the only "consent form" I definitively remember signing would have been my intake form and the intake. Was that what would have been a coerced signature as per Wes's report. Perhaps I didn't catch what I was supposed to."
Well no. When Art Barker hawked the Program, he did it just the same way Straight did and just the way the other programs do now. He said it was a proven program w/ a 99% success rate. However, at some point in the early `70's ALL of the federally funded behavior modification programs came under scrutiny. The Seed was one of those.
At the end of the report and subsiquent hearings, the Senate determined that, in order to keep the federal funding coming in the programs had to disclose a little bit of the truth; that the Program was not proven, it was experimental and that it was not necessarily safe.
Art wouldn't play ball so he got the bum's rush. Two years after St. Pete Seed shut down, Melvin set up Straight and simply ignored those guidelines w/ full complicity from LEAA (his cop buddies) and anyone else who might have prvented that disaster.
But that was all about the basic method. Nothing about using it to generate bogus research. They kept on w/ that too. MacDonald was a director of medical research for Straight before Reagan appointed him Deputy Assistant for Drug Abuse Policy. Just look at the timeline. He's a pedeiatrician in Clearwater, he puts his son in Straight and BOOM, suddenly he's appointed Deputy Assistant to the president. Something is fucking fishy here, isn't it?
Quote
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/s ... 80488a.htm (http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1988/080488a.htm)
Appointment of Donald Ian Macdonald as Deputy Assistant to the President for Drug Abuse Policy
August 4, 1988
The President today announced the appointment of Donald Ian Macdonald, M.D., to be Deputy Assistant to the President for Drug Abuse Policy at the White House. Dr. Macdonald is currently serving as Special Assistant to the President. Dr. Macdonald will continue as the President's adviser for drug abuse policy and is also providing advice and assistance regarding AIDS and the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) epidemic.
Dr. Macdonald came to the White House as Special Assistant to the President in February 1987 from the Department of Health and Human Services, where he served as Administrator of the Alcohol, Drug Abuse, and Mental Health Administration from July 1984 to June 1988. He also served as Acting Assistant Secretary for Health from December 1985 to July 1986. Dr. Macdonald is an Assistant Surgeon General in the U.S. Public Health Service and, since his appointment by the President in 1984, has served as a Governor of the American National Red Cross. Prior to joining the administration, Dr. Macdonald was a practicing pediatrician in Clearwater, FL, and a national leader in the parents movement against drug abuse. He was a clinical associate professor of pediatrics at the University of South Florida, College of Medicine, and a member of the Florida Medical Association, serving as chairman of the association's committee on substance abuse. He has been affiliated with numerous professional and public organizations and is the author of numerous articles on substance abuse and related topics.
Today, you can still see the bloody fingerprints of Program fanatics in their publicly citing as proof of the addictiveness of cannabis the fact that they've been able to coerce so many of us to confess powerlessness over it and to beg for help.
Tell me, please, where did you think all this lunacy was coming from?
The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918)
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2005, 02:11:00 AM
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on November 15, 2005, 08:07:00 AM
_________________
Teenage Drug Use Is A Disease
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on November 15, 2005, 12:03:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-15 05:07:00, Dr. Miller Newton wrote:
"For the last fucking time....Pot is a gateway drug!!!"
The gateway to higher consciousness. :skull:
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2005, 04:28:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2005, 08:53:00 PM