Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: sean-the-lifer-1990-1991 on October 23, 2005, 01:19:00 AM
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Just found this web site recently. Any old cronies out there from 90-91 life program. I was there for a solid nineteen months.
Just checking- I have to find proof sometimes that place actually happened.It is a distant blur but it wasn't always that distant. Days would sit on days on end sitting on that wooden bench. Sean (One of the Charlestonians exported to sarasota). [ This Message was edited by: sean-the-lifer-1990-1991 on 2005-10-22 22:19 ]
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On 2005-10-22 22:19:00, sean-the-lifer-1990-1991 wrote:
"Just found this web site recently. Any old cronies out there from 90-91 life program. I was there for a solid nineteen months.
Just checking- I have to find proof sometimes that place actually happened.It is a distant blur but it wasn't always that distant. Days would sit on days on end sitting on that wooden bench. Sean (One of the Charlestonians exported to sarasota). [ This Message was edited by: sean-the-lifer-1990-1991 on 2005-10-22 22:19 ]"
I even have pictures of what it looks like now. Unfortunately, they're tied up on my phone, which has a broken "picture sender".
You can get the description here: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#133100 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10478&forum=13&start=0#133100)
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goto google earth and you get a nice aerial photo. jump down turnaround then zoom in. would love to go visit that place, would not trade that experience for anything. (Im strange like that I guess) but overall, I must admit, it was a great overall time. sean
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On 2005-10-24 05:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"goto google earth and you get a nice aerial photo. jump down turnaround then zoom in. would love to go visit that place, would not trade that experience for anything. (Im strange like that I guess) but overall, I must admit, it was a great overall time. sean"
Maybe you missed it, Sean - I was there a month ago. Went in, walked around, almost bought a really cool set of wine glasses. :grin:
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Actually I understood. What years were you down there? Sean
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On 2005-10-24 15:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually I understood. What years were you down there? Sean"
Helena must have missed you're question. I don't think she'll mind if I answer for her. She was there for about 4 months in '84.
I was there for the about the first half of '87. And when Helena told me that she went in that building recently, I wondered how in the hell she was able to do it. If I went in there, I think they might have to call 911 and bring me out on a stretcher. It makes me nauseous everytime I pass by the place.
[ This Message was edited by: TimeBomb on 2005-10-26 22:56 ]
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On 2005-10-26 20:24:00, TimeBomb wrote:
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On 2005-10-24 15:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually I understood. What years were you down there? Sean"
Helena must have missed you're question. I don't think she'll mind if I answer for her. She was there for about 4 months in '84.
I was there for the about the first half of '87. And when Helena told me that she went in that building recently, I wondered how in the hell she was able to do it. If I went in there, I think they might have to call 911 and bring me out on a stretcher. It makes me nauseous everytime I pass by the place.
[ This Message was edited by: TimeBomb on 2005-10-26 22:56 ]"
Sorry Sean - wasn't watching that close. Yep - I was in for a few months before the cash ran out. I guess you could call my Oscar Winning performance a fond memory - It's pretty sad when you have to make shit up to "make a phase", dontcha think?
As far as my building visit - it's just a building. Buildings and geography can't rule your life unless you let them.
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No, but I'll tell ya what one building visit that did freak me out. I was out to see my mother some years ago and cruised by the old Cattleman Road property a few miles away. This was before I had done any research. So I was expecting to find the same old warehouse serving some other purpose. Instead, there was a pretty big HRS complex in it's place.
That was just creepy! Of all the places for an HRS complex, why that property? Did they force it out of them and keep it as a trophy? Or was it a sweetheart deal? I just found it very upsetting.
The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective.
--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958
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On 2005-10-27 08:07:00, Antigen wrote:
"No, but I'll tell ya what one building visit that did freak me out. I was out to see my mother some years ago and cruised by the old Cattleman Road property a few miles away. This was before I had done any research. So I was expecting to find the same old warehouse serving some other purpose. Instead, there was a pretty big HRS complex in it's place.
That was just creepy! Of all the places for an HRS complex, why that property? Did they force it out of them and keep it as a trophy? Or was it a sweetheart deal? I just found it very upsetting.
No shit? I think I'd be creeped out too.
However, I think I read in Trevor Aaronson's article that a guy from HRS at the time blew the whistle on Straight, and other people on the HRS side had their jobs threatened if they didn't keep licensing straight. I could be wrong, but if that was the case, and HRS won a new building after they drove out the demons, I'd say the decent people at HRS who called Straight on their shit won the battle.
Don't get me wrong - on the whole HRS (renamed DCF after the Rilya Wilson debacle - the "lost" foster kid they STILL can't find) is a sad excuse for a "welfare" agency. They probably also had to change their name since HRS came to be known as "Home wRecking Services".
What I was trying to say about "Buildings and Geography" is that - for some reason, some people I know, who know this part of my history - want to blame anything from bitchiness to a bad hair day on "The Program". Fuck, it's been 20+ years, and I wasn't all that affected by it anyway.
Eh - so maybe I had to prove it to myself :grin:[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2005-10-27 09:07 ]
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On 2005-10-27 06:51:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"As far as my building visit - it's just a building. Buildings and geography can't rule your life unless you let them."
Who said anything about letting it run my life? Some people get sick on airplanes, I get sick in LIFE buildings. And I really was saying that I look up to you for being able to do it.
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And yeah, that was my post.
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On 2005-10-28 19:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-10-27 06:51:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"As far as my building visit - it's just a building. Buildings and geography can't rule your life unless you let them."
Who said anything about letting it run my life? Some people get sick on airplanes, I get sick in LIFE buildings. And I really was saying that I look up to you for being able to do it."
"You" being the general plural possessive... as in "You guys" or "Yous people" as they say in Western MA - which is easy to confuse with Brooklyn. :grin:
It's my choice to put it into the perspective of a building on a patch of dirt in Sarasota county. My decision. You can look at it any way you like.
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Antigen -
You are mistaken. HRS no longer exists. DCF is now the agency name, and their facilities in Sarasota are located on 17th St. near U.S. 301.
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Yup, I know. When I was there, it was still HRS. And still, to this day, when the no-neck's get into a brawl, you can hear them hollering out in the street "No! I'm gonna call HRS on YEEEEWWWWW!" LOL
Same fucked up agency, though. And I bet the still own the property at 1401 Cattleman Road, too. It's right at the end of Buena Vista, w/ the back end of the property facing the interstate. Check it out.
Speak gently! 't is a little thing Dropp'd in the heart's deep well; The good, the joy, that it may bring Eternity shall tell.
-- G. W. Langford: Speak gently.
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On 2005-10-27 06:51:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
"You" being the general plural possessive... as in "You guys" or "Yous people" as they say in Western MA - which is easy to confuse with Brooklyn. :grin:
It's my choice to put it into the perspective of a building on a patch of dirt in Sarasota county. My decision. You can look at it any way you like.
Well, I was the one who posted the original comment about the building making me sick.
And the fact is, I admire you for being able to look at it as "just a building". I hope one day I can do the same.
[ This Message was edited by: TimeBomb on 2005-10-29 14:42 ]
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Oh, and I left out "yenz" :rofl: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =14#144342 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12377&forum=13&start=14#144342)
On 2005-10-29 12:40:00, Antigen wrote:
"Yup, I know. When I was there, it was still HRS. And still, to this day, when the no-neck's get into a brawl, you can hear them hollering out in the street "No! I'm gonna call HRS on YEEEEWWWWW!" LOL
Yep, you definitely have Florida pegged!
Same fucked up agency, though. And I bet the still own the property at 1401 Cattleman Road, too. It's right at the end of Buena Vista, w/ the back end of the property facing the interstate. Check it out.
I'll check it out sometime in the coming week when I'm back up that way. I'll let you know.
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Sean, you were there in 1990? I left at the begining of 1990. I was there from 1988 to the beginning of 1990. Too long!
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I was at the building today. Walked through and looked through consignment items, and remembered "the days" there. I could only laugh. Funny memories. 6 phase dances, TPing staff's cars, canoe and camping trips, practical jokes, christmas caroling, Night Of Joy trips to Disney.
Funny, I have no torture and cult fashion memories. Sure I wasn't a happy kid going in, but the good times as I finished FAR outweigh the "bad" times.
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My name's Mike Santangelo.
I was in LIFE in that timeframe, I actually don't remember the actual dates. I know I graduated High School in '91, and got out of the program not too long before then, so I was definitely there in '91.
Lessee, names I remember...
Staff.. I remember Preston, Nick, and Greg, though I think all 3 of them were gone by the time I got out, they were there when I first went in.
Dave Yarborough I remember, one of the Charleston crew down there.
Mike Schwab, he stayed with me through both of our 5th and 6th phases, but he was from like, Brandon I believe.
I remember J.W. McCoullough(sp?). Someone mentioned Johnathon, the guy with Turets, I remember him. I remember Jessica and Amber, we came to be fairly good friends after we all 7th stepped.
I keep in touch with an old friend of mine from school Reid, and he's good friends with John(I can't for the life of me remember his last name), apparently he's doing well, as is his sister.
I'm not gonna get in arguments about LIFE, I remember hating it there, hating being there, but I certainly appreciate what they did. I was quickly heading towards the grave and they stopped that. Their methods weren't great, but I'm now a healthy, happy, confident person.History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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On 2005-12-09 06:51:00, xvipah wrote:
"My name's Mike Santangelo.
I'm not gonna get in arguments about LIFE, I remember hating it there, hating being there, but I certainly appreciate what they did. I was quickly heading towards the grave and they stopped that. Their methods weren't great, but I'm now a healthy, happy, confident person."
Senator McCain seems to be doing pretty good nowadays, and he spent 5 1/2 years in a Vietnamese POW camp.
But at least you admit that "their methods weren't great". I wonder what you mean by that.
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*shrug*
Like I said, I'm not here to argue with you about it, find someone else if you want to argue cause I'm not that guy.
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Dang it, that was me above, what's with this place and logging people out? :smile:
If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb
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On 2005-12-09 19:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"*shrug*
Like I said, I'm not here to argue with you about it, find someone else if you want to argue cause I'm not that guy. "
I gotta wonder... why assume it's an argument?
You know, many of us wonder why and how some of our contemporaries were sitting in the same rap, but saw different things. Maybe TB was just hoping you could explain that.
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I could be wrong, lord knows it's happened enough in my lifetime :smile:
I just get the feeling when someone responds to me with:
Senator McCain seems to be doing pretty good nowadays, and he spent 5 1/2 years in a Vietnamese POW camp.
But at least you admit that "their methods weren't great". I wonder what you mean by that.
That he/she is being a bit confrontational, I mean, comparing me saying I'm happy and healthy now to John McCain being in a POW camp isn't exactly an invitation to a friendly chat is it?Harmlessly passing your time in the grasslands away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
you better watchout,
there may be dogs about.
I've looked over Jordan, and have seen.
Things are not what they seem.
--Roger Waters 1977
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On 2005-12-09 19:16:00, xvipah wrote:
"Like I said, I'm not here to argue with you about it, find someone else if you want to argue cause I'm not that guy."
I don't like arguing either, but it would be helpful if you could tell us specifically what you meant when you said LIFE's methods weren't great.
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On 2005-12-09 19:30:00, xvipah wrote:
"I could be wrong, lord knows it's happened enough in my lifetime :smile:
I just get the feeling when someone responds to me with:
Senator McCain seems to be doing pretty good nowadays, and he spent 5 1/2 years in a Vietnamese POW camp.
But at least you admit that "their methods weren't great". I wonder what you mean by that.
That he/she is being a bit confrontational, I mean, comparing me saying I'm happy and healthy now to John McCain being in a POW camp isn't exactly an invitation to a friendly chat is it?
Hey, facts are facts, and you can accept as much as you like. The McCain thing is an anaology... You're effectively saying "the methods sucked, but, Praise Petermann, my life is good"... McCain isn't praising the Viet Cong for his success.
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No, what I'm "effectively saying" is this.
I'm not here to argue about it.
There never was a good war or a bad peace.
--Benjamin Franklin, (1773)
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On 2005-12-09 19:46:00, xvipah wrote:
"No, what I'm "effectively saying" is this.
I'm not here to argue about it.
There never was a good war or a bad peace.
--Benjamin Franklin, (1773)
"
Then maybe you should be on e-Bay. The pendant you're looking for is a representation of a staircase, with a number "7" hollowing out the stairs.
You might also want to hang around here - there's an ex-staffer that happens by every so often. OH - and there used to be a reunion site....
Yeah, there was a reunion in July of '04, but the reunion site (www.lifereunion.com (http://www.lifereunion.com)) died shortly thereafter. It's a mystery. I'd think a support base with such healthy constituents would outlast this miscreant group any day. :grin:
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On 2005-12-09 19:46:00, xvipah wrote:
"No, what I'm "effectively saying" is this.
I'm not here to argue about it."
Well, my main point about McCain was that how you are doing today is not an indicator of wether you were abused or not years ago. Many of us are happy, healthy, and confident, despite what we went through.
Why can't you just back up what you said about LIFE's not so great methods with some details?
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On 2005-12-09 19:32:00, TimeBomb wrote:
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On 2005-12-09 19:16:00, xvipah wrote:
"Like I said, I'm not here to argue with you about it, find someone else if you want to argue cause I'm not that guy."
I don't like arguing either, but it would be helpful if you could tell us specifically what you meant when you said LIFE's methods weren't great."
Fair enough.
When I say that I don't think LIFE's methods were great I'm referring mostly to the act of "breaking someone down" and the way they went about it. Humiliation is an effective tool and it certainly worked on me, unfortunately humilation's power tends to fade with time. However the act of having been humiliated can stay with you for a long time.
However, even after all that, the "rebuilding" phase of LIFE was incomplete. I won't say they did none, I left the program a pretty confident person, but there was still a lot of old scars and wounds that they never helped heal, they just covered em up with dogma.
I think maybe I got lucky in the fact that not too long after I left I joined the Army, where I got "broken down" again, but rebuilt, I guess you could say correctly, or at least fully? I think those two experiences, within a year or two of each other, worked well when put together. Seperately they may not have worked as well, I don't know, but what LIFE didn't do right, the Army did.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy
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get ready Mike. if you stick around here, you will be hen-pecked until you believe as the others. that you were tortured, abused and raped at life.
they are out to turn you against ANYTHING positive you may have recieved from your experience there. seems to be their priority in life (no pun intended).
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On 2005-12-09 21:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
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get ready Mike. if you stick around here, you will be hen-pecked until you believe as the others. that you were tortured, abused and raped at life.
they are out to turn you against ANYTHING positive you may have recieved from your experience there. seems to be their priority in life (no pun intended). "
You should read this out loud to see how dumb it really sounds.
No one here is trying to "convert" anyone. Contrary to your delusion, most around here despise groupthink. I, and several other posters witnessed and were personally targets of abuse.
It's curious how your alarm goes off when people start wanting to discuss the truth.
Mike said himself that the methods were not the best, and the holes in his life were filled in with dogma. No one here doubts Mike's success in life, or even yours.
I find it interesting that I never heard a Pro-Program graduate say "Yep, I worked my butt off, and I made it happen". Why is that?[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2005-12-10 05:16 ]
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I would venture to say the reason you've never heard that, is that it isn't(almost can't be) true. When I was in there the program controlled everything about your life. Sure I had to do the talking and alla that in rap, but everything I did(was allowed to do) were controlled for me. I'm not sure there was an opportunity for me to work MY butt off and succeed. I had to work as hard as they told me to so that I could move on.
That's not to say that nothing came from me, but you also have to remember, most of us were 12-17 year old kids, I personally was 15-17 when I was in, individuality wasn't something we thought of or concerned ourselves with. We did what we were told so that we could go home.Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author
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On 2005-12-10 07:14:00, xvipah wrote:
"I would venture to say the reason you've never heard that, is that it isn't(almost can't be) true. When I was in there the program controlled everything about your life. Sure I had to do the talking and alla that in rap, but everything I did(was allowed to do) were controlled for me. I'm not sure there was an opportunity for me to work MY butt off and succeed. I had to work as hard as they told me to so that I could move on.
That's not to say that nothing came from me, but you also have to remember, most of us were 12-17 year old kids, I personally was 15-17 when I was in, individuality wasn't something we thought of or concerned ourselves with. We did what we were told so that we could go home.
Mike, I was talking about present day. I've conversed with many a supporter that is convinced they'd be dead-insane-in-jail (a program catch phrase standard across most all of them), and owe their college graduation, their marriage and family and job success to the program.
How do you account for the people who did all those things without the program? How do you account for the truly screwed up people who one day turned it all around on their own?
How about the kids who were admitted to the program, that didn't have problems - but their parents were convinced by other parents and the propoganda at the time, that "druggie behavior" exists in every teen? Yes, this did happen.
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On 2005-12-10 09:45:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:
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On 2005-12-10 07:14:00, xvipah wrote:
"I would venture to say the reason you've never heard that, is that it isn't(almost can't be) true. When I was in there the program controlled everything about your life. Sure I had to do the talking and alla that in rap, but everything I did(was allowed to do) were controlled for me. I'm not sure there was an opportunity for me to work MY butt off and succeed. I had to work as hard as they told me to so that I could move on.
That's not to say that nothing came from me, but you also have to remember, most of us were 12-17 year old kids, I personally was 15-17 when I was in, individuality wasn't something we thought of or concerned ourselves with. We did what we were told so that we could go home.
Mike, I was talking about present day. I've conversed with many a supporter that is convinced they'd be dead-insane-in-jail (a program catch phrase standard across most all of them), and owe their college graduation, their marriage and family and job success to the program.
How do you account for the people who did all those things without the program? How do you account for the truly screwed up people who one day turned it all around on their own?
How about the kids who were admitted to the program, that didn't have problems - but their parents were convinced by other parents and the propoganda at the time, that "druggie behavior" exists in every teen? Yes, this did happen.
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I think alot of kids that ended up there, didn't have the problem that they were told that they had but the reality is that you swallowed your pride, motivated your ass off and shed some tears to get the hell out of the building. Whether the druggie problem was real or not didn't matter to me, I did what I had to do to get out of there. Eventually I think I caved to the pressure and lived the good phaser life but I know that I felt the entire time I never belonged there. Sure somethings I learned were good for me but most of those are common senses. I think had I been given the time and a chance, I would have grown up a little and made better decisions. But the fear of God and Susan Crandall made me do it sooner. I know that the "tools" I learned while there weren't used again once I knew no one was going to snoop behind me.
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Oh my God...
Susan Crandall, there's a blast from the past :smile:In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. Only one who knows the disastrous effects of a long war can realize the supreme importance of rapidity in bringing it to a close. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war who can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
--Sun Tzu (author of The Art of War
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On 2005-12-10 17:50:00, xvipah wrote:
"Oh my God...
Susan Crandall, there's a blast from the past
I hated her. She made short Sundays suck. Jeff was OK but Susan was horrible. I think she enjoyed terrorizing people.
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Oh man, Jeff, I'd forgotten about him too. I swore up and down he was gay.
I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet