Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: 85 Day Jerk on October 10, 2005, 03:59:00 PM
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Straight Inc. had only been in existance for a year and a half when I went in. It was at it's peak down here in St. Pete. We were housed in a warehouse that seated as many as 2000 if need be. The program started out with kids in group actually having needle marks and lung damage from huffing chemicals and what not. These were the hard core cases who really WOULD wind up dead-insane-or-in jail. It was during the winter of 1977 when the founders got together to go over taxes and such that they discovered just how much profit was being generated.
One of the founders owned a radio/television station. His name was Rahall. There was a falling out between him and Mel Sembler and he withdrew support and the use of his warehouse. What did Straight do? Sembler got one of his cronies to let him use the Milton Roy Corporation warehouse off of Park Street in the outskirts of St. Pete near Boca Ciega Bay.
With all that room, there was tremendous incentive to fill it with warm teen aged bodies and that is what they did. There was a "recruitment team" that passed out flyers and brocures to parents that worked the high end defense industries and white collar businesses. St. Pete Police Chief Mack Vines was a frequent visitor to parent meetings and would show the most gory, bloody and horiffic scenes to scare the living shit out of these parents. Many parents bought it hook line and sinker and it was'nt long before their kids were on front row.
As to whether or not they deserved it, the people I seen in my first days there did. They were upper crust white bread punks that had gone their whole lives without a serious ass whooping. They had no values, no goals and no directions. Most went to private schools. Quite a few were from Tampa, and these "darlings" would fuck you over in a heartbeat if you let them. When I entered the program, there were only 27 rules. No shit, just 27 rules, and most of us could name all of them in one sitting. Because staff did not have enough brains to deal with things on an individual basis, everytime somebody fucked up, we were presented with yet another rule. By the time I 'stepped,' they were up to 47 rules.
You as a reader really need to read my posts entitled "Tampa Screw-Up" to really get a good idea what went on and why I feel that most that were there deserved to be there.
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Hey dude, write us a story. A good read.
You had some real good ones.
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He is a jerk, after all. Somebody hammer a bottle cap so I can look surprised.
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Deserved to be in Straight, Inc. or they would be DEADINSANEINJAIL? You are an idiot. If anything, that place made them more likely to get over their head into drugs, kill themselves, suffer psychological damage, or commit acts that would send them to jail.
I read your "Tampa Screw Up" posts and it confirmed my long standing suspicion
that you really enjoyed Straight "until it got ruined".
Let me tell ya something there, Jerk. Straight, Inc. and programs like it are fucked up from the get-go. Straight wasn't a 'good program' that went bad when the evil "Dr." Newton showed up, it was a fucked up teen torture facility that got worse.
There was no one who deserved, or was even slightly "helped" by attending Straight, Inc. and for you to believe there was just goes to showe how far you have your head implanted up your ass.
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On 2005-10-11 08:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Deserved to be in Straight, Inc. or they would be DEADINSANEINJAIL? You are an idiot. If anything, that place made them more likely to get over their head into drugs, kill themselves, suffer psychological damage, or commit acts that would send them to jail.
I read your "Tampa Screw Up" posts and it confirmed my long standing suspicion
that you really enjoyed Straight "until it got ruined".
Let me tell ya something there, Jerk. Straight, Inc. and programs like it are fucked up from the get-go. Straight wasn't a 'good program' that went bad when the evil "Dr." Newton showed up, it was a fucked up teen torture facility that got worse.
There was no one who deserved, or was even slightly "helped" by attending Straight, Inc. and for you to believe there was just goes to showe how far you have your head implanted up your ass.
"
Wow, okay , so people who have second hand information or know someone who attended the various schools get slammed for posting and people who support the schools get slammed and parents who are considering sending thier kids get slammed and now people sharing their actual experiences who have attended get slammed. Who do you accept as credible? Do you only want the stepford kids who are programmed to hate all schools, hate all parents and hate anyone who is moving on with their lives to post?
Have fun, hope you continue to grow , NOT!!!!
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On 2005-10-11 09:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-10-11 08:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Deserved to be in Straight, Inc. or they would be DEADINSANEINJAIL? You are an idiot. If anything, that place made them more likely to get over their head into drugs, kill themselves, suffer psychological damage, or commit acts that would send them to jail.
I read your "Tampa Screw Up" posts and it confirmed my long standing suspicion
that you really enjoyed Straight "until it got ruined".
Let me tell ya something there, Jerk. Straight, Inc. and programs like it are fucked up from the get-go. Straight wasn't a 'good program' that went bad when the evil "Dr." Newton showed up, it was a fucked up teen torture facility that got worse.
There was no one who deserved, or was even slightly "helped" by attending Straight, Inc. and for you to believe there was just goes to showe how far you have your head implanted up your ass.
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Wow, okay , so people who have second hand information or know someone who attended the various schools get slammed for posting and people who support the schools get slammed and parents who are considering sending thier kids get slammed and now people sharing their actual experiences who have attended get slammed. Who do you accept as credible? Do you only want the stepford kids who are programmed to hate all schools, hate all parents and hate anyone who is moving on with their lives to post?
Have fun, hope you continue to grow , NOT!!!!"
I was in Straight, St. Petersburg, moron, so I'm just as qualified to make a statement regarding conditions there as any program-loving twit like the guy who started the thread. If I wanted Stepford kids, I'd be posting shit like 85 Day Jerk did, saying that some of ther kids "deserved to be there".
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No No No No ,wait No Lets Really do it for Sammie now...ahhh shit rong thread, but wait No No No lets do it for Sammie anyway Yahhhhh ::unhappy:: ::unhappy::
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On 2005-10-11 08:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
I read your "Tampa Screw Up" posts and it confirmed my long standing suspicion
that you really enjoyed Straight "until it got ruined".
:nworthy: :nworthy: Truer words have never been spoken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On 2005-10-10 17:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey dude, write us a story. A good read.
You had some real good ones. "
Tell us about the fun you had at Straight, you know, what a good time it was. Fun, fun, fun 'til Miller Newton showed up and ruined the party. Yeah, Straight was great, I deserved to sit in my shit and eat peanut butter sandwiches for a month because I used drugs before I went in, and 85 Day Jerk didn't approve.
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What is the significance of this "85 Day Jerk" moniker anyway?
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On 2005-10-11 11:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What is the significance of this "85 Day Jerk" moniker anyway? "
It indicates what a bad dude he was in Straight, y'know, to show you how cool he is.
In reality, he is glad to have gone through Straight, and thinks that most likely, you deserved to be there and deserved whatever happened to you. It's your own goddamn fault, you druggie lowlife!
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Ah, I see. Like he was a "jerk" on first phase for 85 days, huh? Shit I've got that beat by 5 months....the FIRST time. What a tool!!!! :rofl:
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He is a program-loving buffoon. "Jerk", indeed.
What bullshit, "some of them deserved to be there". Fucking prick.
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Not unlike those people who can't seem to leave their high school 'glory days' behind them even some 20 or 30 years later. Their lives since have been so empty and unfulfilling that they must continue to live in the fantasy. Funny, most of them were assholes then and now too.
Jerk, wake up from your dream. NO ONE deserved to be in there, not even you (although I would pay good money to see you get your ass kicked now). I don't care how fucked up you think they were NO ONE deserves that kind of, ahem, "treatment"...pun intended.
People praise your writing skills and it just further perpetuates your fantasy (and theirs that you actually HAVE any creative writing skills). Truth is you look back on your experience with Straight with fond memories, you think you were part of the "cool" Straightlings. Like I said before....what a TOOL...and a delusional one at that!!!! :lol:
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On 2005-10-11 11:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Not unlike those people who can't seem to leave their high school 'glory days' behind them even some 20 or 30 years later. Their lives since have been so empty and unfulfilling that they must continue to live in the fantasy. Funny, most of them were assholes then and now too.
Jerk, wake up from your dream. NO ONE deserved to be in there, not even you (although I would pay good money to see you get your ass kicked now). I don't care how fucked up you think they were NO ONE deserves that kind of, ahem, "treatment"...pun intended.
People praise your writing skills and it just further perpetuates your fantasy (and theirs that you actually HAVE any creative writing skills). Truth is you look back on your experience with Straight with fond memories, you think you were part of the "cool" Straightlings. Like I said before....what a TOOL...and a delusional one at that!!!! :lol: "
You seem to be well adjusted and happy with your life....ahem. Some people cant seem to leave their 'glory days' behind them even some 20 or 30 years later and others cant seem to leave their 'not so glory days' behind them either (how long has it been?)
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On 2005-10-10 12:59:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"The program started out with kids in group actually having needle marks and lung damage from huffing chemicals and what not. These were the hard core cases who really WOULD wind up dead-insane-or-in jail."
By the time I got there I had been in jails and was probably on my way to prison, I had guns drawn on me and I was carrying one myself. And I had been in the pits of hell being on the streets, but none of this constitutes me being put in a center where I was abused for an indefinite amount of time. At least if I were in jail or prison I had a set time frame to be there unless I really fucked up somehow.
I would not have been kept away from my family, I would have had visitation or at least been able to make phone calls home. Nor would I have had to put up a big chunk of my small inheiretence to pay for my admission to the " Abuse Center "
I personally feel that no matter what a person done " WE DID NOT DESERVE TO BE THERE. "
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On 2005-10-11 12:49:00, DOC SLOW wrote:
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On 2005-10-10 12:59:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"The program started out with kids in group actually having needle marks and lung damage from huffing chemicals and what not. These were the hard core cases who really WOULD wind up dead-insane-or-in jail."
By the time I got there I had been in jails and was probably on my way to prison, I had guns drawn on me and I was carrying one myself. And I had been in the pits of hell being on the streets, but none of this constitutes me being put in a center where I was abused for an indefinite amount of time. At least if I were in jail or prison I had a set time frame to be there unless I really fucked up somehow.
I would not have been kept away from my family, I would have had visitation or at least been able to make phone calls home. Nor would I have had to put up a big chunk of my small inheiretence to pay for my admission to the " Abuse Center "
I personally feel that no matter what a person done " WE DID NOT DESERVE TO BE THERE. ""
If my kid was in your position I would have done the same thing. The chances of getting any real help in prison is nil, its a revolving door. If someone approached me with a program which had a slight chance of working I would jump all over it. and, no, I probably wouldnt spend six months researching whether or not it was a perfect fit, if my kid was carrying a gun and needed to be taken down by police I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly. At least you can look back and know your parents cared enough to avoid prison that time, they could have pocketed the money and spent it on themselves if they didnt care.
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On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
If my kid was in your position I would have done the same thing. The chances of getting any real help in prison is nil, its a revolving door. If someone approached me with a program which had a slight chance of working I would jump all over it.
That's precisely what the programs count on...desperate parents who will try anything regardless of what the consequences to the child in question would be. And that doesn't even speak about where the hell these parents were before the kid became a 'gun toting boogey man'. Were they just oblivious for all that time that this boogey kid was simmering???
and, no, I probably wouldnt spend six months researching whether or not it was a perfect fit,
Shame on you then. It would be your duty as a parent to find out what kind of a place you'd be sending your kid to....and it wouldn't take six months of research.
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I think maybe some children actually had drug problems, but no one deserved to be treated as we were. I think that is what the 85 day meant. Is that true bobby?
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On 2005-10-11 14:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think maybe some children actually had drug problems, but no one deserved to be treated as we were. I think that is what the 85 day meant. Is that true bobby?"
Not according to his first post in this thread...
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#139613 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12210&forum=7&start=0#139613)
As to whether or not they deserved it, the people I seen in my first days there did. They were upper crust white bread punks that had gone their whole lives without a serious ass whooping. They had no values, no goals and no directions. Most went to private schools.
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I quite agree. Desperation is their key marketing ploy. That's why they invest so heavily in propaganda; it yields a very high return.
What's more...
On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly.
We've been watching too much tv these last couple of generations. We loooooves our stories, don't we children? There are to obvious problems w/ the logic of the sales pitch.
Whether or not someone needs to be taken down by police is almost entirely subjective. Almost. It's pretty objective after the takedown and if and when the accused has had a FAIR trial and been convicted of an actual crime. Then it's pretty objective.
When you hire a transport company to abduct your kid and then pay a private prison to confine and, possibly, torment him, what are you really getting that you can't get from the public prison system? The primary difference is that the public sector at least makes a polite courtsey to due process. But if you've got big bags of money to kick down, why you can just buy your way out of that little nagging problem.
Trust me, juvenile detention was less harmful than Straight. And I was in Macon and Clay counties in Georgia. Neither one offered any real help. But then, I had never asked for or wanted any. At least in detention, if someone treats you in any way close to the way we tormented each other in Straight, THEY would be shipped off to the psyche ward, you would regain your peace and quiet.
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
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On 2005-10-11 14:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
If my kid was in your position I would have done the same thing. The chances of getting any real help in prison is nil, its a revolving door. If someone approached me with a program which had a slight chance of working I would jump all over it.
That's precisely what the programs count on...desperate parents who will try anything regardless of what the consequences to the child in question would be. And that doesn't even speak about where the hell these parents were before the kid became a 'gun toting boogey man'. Were they just oblivious for all that time that this boogey kid was simmering???
and, no, I probably wouldnt spend six months researching whether or not it was a perfect fit,
Shame on you then. It would be your duty as a parent to find out what kind of a place you'd be sending your kid to....and it wouldn't take six months of research.
"
***That's precisely what the programs count on...desperate parents who will try anything regardless of what the consequences to the child in question would be.***
Desperate is right, as caring parents should be, in a situation like that. Again, knee jerk reaction to keeping a kid out of prison and maybe getting the help he needed. no shame in that. They could have hung up the phone and went back to watching the ballgame.
I guess we could assume prison would have been a better choice? We should compare statistics first, but again that takes time. How many people do you think take the time to investigate prison life before sending their kid there, how much help he will get etc.?
***And that doesn't even speak about where the hell these parents were before the kid became a 'gun toting boogey man'. Were they just oblivious for all that time that this boogey kid was simmering??? ***
We could all assume, but only a few people know the answer to that, they could have been the best parents in the world or the worse, but probably somewhere in-between. Regardless of where the parents were, the kid needed help and his folks stepped up to the challenge, good decision or bad. The world is full of people who dont care he was and is lucky they cared enough to do something or to atleast try.
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Please read my response prior to yours. They crossed in the mail.
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.
--Mark Twain
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I was there at the time 85DJ spoke/wrote about. Historically he is pretty damn accurate. Spooky accurate. That said, I see this hub-bub all spinning around a question of semantics.
Deserving to be There -vs- Needing Help
I can think of 3-4 individuals. A cousin that came from a Mental Institution. I had a newcomer once that ran head first into the bedroom wall (concrete) consecutively for about 2 hours. I recall Chris Castler getting his head thwacked because he pushed a girl to hard, (she pleaded for Lithium) and he belittled her, degraded her and generally fucked with her head...he got to close and she caught him with a left hook. I can also remember a guy didn't come in one day. The following day he came into group and was confronted for sexually molesting a child (a baby) the day he was gone.
Clearly folks then, just like at any time, Needed Help. Did they Deserve what they endured? Obviously not, none of us did. Did some of us Need Help of some kind...possibly. But it was not Straight Inc. My parents (mom) wanted help for me, my dad was following the stories in the St. Pete Times and knew full well what was going on and sent me anyway. But Straight was not the place, I would have profitted from. Obviously.
Some one wrote about memories. If Straight was a 2-4 year experience as it was for many of us, Straight Inc is all that we have for memories. When I look back at my teen years, all I really can see is Straight Inc. I feel I was robbed, an age was stolen from me. Not all of my "peers" stole from me. There are some people who I felt very close to and a smile will cross my face when I think of a few. Does that mean I am a Straight supporter? No.
I recently re-established contact with yet another cousin. I hadn't seen him in 27yrs (roughly). I hadnt seen him since before Straight. The subject of our time in Straight came up and intially he responded in a rather quip manner...not bubbly, nor enthusiastic but it was meant to convey an optimistic responce. I pushed a lil further, and he abruptly said. "I don't think much about it" but minutes later he went into great detail of his ordeal in Straight. We were both pissed that we had no memories together as teenagers. I was seen as a "screw up" by the time he got put there. I was also not allowed to attend my own grandfathers funeral. Did I deserve that, no. Did I need that, no. Did I need some kinda help? You betcha. Was Straight the answer, cetainly and hopefully now obvious, no.
I knew 85DJ from the day he walked thru the doors. At the time he earned his moniker he was a classic "jerk", we hadn't yet heard the term "misbehavor" or whatever. He was a foster brother, after straight we were roomates. He is/was no better/worse than any of us. I personally don't think he set about to imply he was any different. Probably the only difference between him and someone who went thru Straight 10-12 years ago is that he got there before them. I don't think 85DJ meant the word "Deserved" as came across. But I dunno...hopefully, still more "clarifacation" come.
Sorry for the babble...puff puff pass
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Back to the original question...did they deserve to be there? Did they deserve to have the abuses heaped upon them? You can debate the efficacy of the jail or detention all you want but it really has no bearing at all on whether or not these kids deserved to be in a program that systematically abused them.
I'm not saying that all parents were uncaring assholes (although there were plenty like that) but maybe they should have turned off the ballgame BEFORE things got to that extreme. I've got kids. I know first hand that they do some frightening things. Mine are grown now and I'm absolutely positive there are things they have done that if I knew about would scare the living shit out of me.....BUT....I believe I was paying a helluva lot more attention than my parents and many other program parents ever did. Shit, the grandparents of my kids (I married another program person so we had a double whammy with the grandparents) became so incensed over what they considered to be abhorent behavior from one of my kids that they suggested and pushed for a while for me to send her somewhere. Funny how now she seems to have outgrown her stupidity and is doing fairly well for herself. What if I had fallen for the hype? What if I had allowed myself to become that desperate? I shudder to think what would have happened to her.
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It seems to me that maybe these are 2 different points. i mean Jerk is talkin' about hardcore herion addicts and such, on the verge of death or what ?? On the verge of what ?? Really ?? i don' fuckin' know !! Pro'ly jus' teenagers with no LEGAL RIGHTS by which to defend themselves. i don' know. That is some fucked up shit and i only know what happened where i was.
Such is life... as i' heard somewher...
While the other poster cat is talkin' 'bout abuse of kids who weren'
t in nearly that kin' of a life or death situation. Fuck All Authority !!
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I agree with Woof....its more the question of needing help versus deserving abusive treatment help.
I dont disagree that some people need help, even intervention in some way. But there are so many ways that Straight took that idea and twisted it, drew it out and forced long term intervention, which is ludicrous given the fact that if someone dosent want help, you cant force them to take it. The reasons why go on and on as we all know.
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On 2005-10-11 17:00:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"It seems to me that maybe these are 2 different points. i mean Jerk is talkin' about hardcore herion addicts and such, on the verge of death or what ?? On the verge of what ?? Really ?? i don' fuckin' know !! Pro'ly jus' teenagers with no LEGAL RIGHTS by which to defend themselves. i don' know. That is some fucked up shit and i only know what happened where i was.
Such is life... as i' heard somewher...
While the other poster cat is talkin' 'bout abuse of kids who weren'
t in nearly that kin' of a life or death situation. Fuck All Authority !!"
And let me say before i find myself confronted, that heroine is cool with me. Drugs are jus' a tool. :skull: :wave:
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Jerk is a talented writer. He also has a phenomenal memory. He has also started a good topic for debate. Thumbs up, Jerk, You done good. People take offense easily because you says what you means. You didn't like those spoiled kids. I didn't like hardly anyone in Straight either.
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Nobody likes a spoiled child but that doesn't mean they deserve to be beaten, ridiculed and to have their emotional self whacked off at the knees. That's my beef with what he stated.
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On 2005-10-11 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nobody likes a spoiled child but that doesn't mean they deserve to be beaten, ridiculed and to have their emotional self whacked off at the knees. That's my beef with what he stated."
Uh-Huh. Plus that other shit, i think.
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What other shit?
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On 2005-10-11 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Jerk is a talented writer. He also has a phenomenal memory. He has also started a good topic for debate. Thumbs up, Jerk, You done good. People take offense easily because you says what you means. You didn't like those spoiled kids. I didn't like hardly anyone in Straight either.
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So then, the ones you "didn't like" deserved what they got???? :eek: :eek: Seriously, go back and read his first post in this thread. You agree that those "spoiled kids" deserved to "have their asses whooped"???? Scary and sad, very sad.
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i don' know ...wasn' there some other shit too, like jus' a whole lot of fuckin' humilliation and deprevity 'n' all too ?? Maybe that is even the same shit. i don' know...
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On 2005-10-11 18:32:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"i don' know ...wasn' there some other shit too, like jus' a whole lot of fuckin' humilliation and deprevity 'n' all too ?? Maybe that is even the same shit. i don' know..."
Absolutely!! I find that part of the whole deranged deal more damaging than any of the physical shit that happened in there. I can deal with that. I can get over that, but the psychological shit was, IMO, the most damaging and the most lasting. Again, NO ONE deserves that...especially kids, and that's what we all were....just kids.
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Yeah, and well, i'm sure you already know then, what i would pro'ly have ta say.
Peace.
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No, actually I don't. Honestly. Haven't the foggiest. Please elaborate.
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Well, i feel like i'm whuppin' up on a dead horse or sumthin' but...jus' how authority actually perpetrates injustice. Society is a prison. Minors need more rights. The World is so fucked up, Etc., You know.
i'm shuttin' down for th' night. Namaste.
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On 2005-10-11 11:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What is the significance of this "85 Day Jerk" moniker anyway? "
It means he jerked off in group eighty-five days in a row.
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On 2005-10-11 18:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-10-11 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Jerk is a talented writer. He also has a phenomenal memory. He has also started a good topic for debate. Thumbs up, Jerk, You done good. People take offense easily because you says what you means. You didn't like those spoiled kids. I didn't like hardly anyone in Straight either.
"
So then, the ones you "didn't like" deserved what they got???? :eek: :eek: Seriously, go back and read his first post in this thread. You agree that those "spoiled kids" deserved to "have their asses whooped"???? Scary and sad, very sad."
So what. You don't like what he said, and you don't like the way he said it. I'd still rather spend Thanksgiving watching his relatives do their Indy 500 than hang about with you and your sad, very scary and sad, overly-questioning mystified double-emoticonning gene set. Belch and drool. Pass me another well-done Jerk write-up.
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On 2005-10-11 14:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
If my kid was in your position I would have done the same thing. The chances of getting any real help in prison is nil, its a revolving door. If someone approached me with a program which had a slight chance of working I would jump all over it.
That's precisely what the programs count on...desperate parents who will try anything regardless of what the consequences to the child in question would be. And that doesn't even speak about where the hell these parents were before the kid became a 'gun toting boogey man'. Were they just oblivious for all that time that this boogey kid was simmering???
and, no, I probably wouldnt spend six months researching whether or not it was a perfect fit,
Shame on you then. It would be your duty as a parent to find out what kind of a place you'd be sending your kid to....and it wouldn't take six months of research.
"
As far as my parents being oblivious, I guess they actually were as both of my parents were deceased and I was on my own. I had other family members trying to step in and intervene by calling my probation officer, having my probation revoked for simple posession of marijuana. ( My cousin actually gave my PO a bag of grass she found in my pocket when she was doing my laundry. )
And being a gun toting boogey man, I wasn't a pistol waiving adolescent. But I would have used it if I had to....You know how bad dope deals go. :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: [ This Message was edited by: DOC SLOW on 2005-10-12 06:31 ]
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On 2005-10-11 15:19:00, Antigen wrote:
"I quite agree. Desperation is their key marketing ploy. That's why they invest so heavily in propaganda; it yields a very high return.
What's more...
On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly.
We've been watching too much tv these last couple of generations. We loooooves our stories, don't we children? There are to obvious problems w/ the logic of the sales pitch.
Whether or not someone needs to be taken down by police is almost entirely subjective. Almost. It's pretty objective after the takedown and if and when the accused has had a FAIR trial and been convicted of an actual crime. Then it's pretty objective.
When you hire a transport company to abduct your kid and then pay a private prison to confine and, possibly, torment him, what are you really getting that you can't get from the public prison system? The primary difference is that the public sector at least makes a polite courtsey to due process. But if you've got big bags of money to kick down, why you can just buy your way out of that little nagging problem.
Trust me, juvenile detention was less harmful than Straight. And I was in Macon and Clay counties in Georgia. Neither one offered any real help. But then, I had never asked for or wanted any. At least in detention, if someone treats you in any way close to the way we tormented each other in Straight, THEY would be shipped off to the psyche ward, you would regain your peace and quiet.
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
"
When a parent hires a transport company to take their child, its not so the kid can be shipped out to be tortured its an intervention. Its perceived as a better alternative than prison or death. I am not familiar with these places "Seed" and "Straight" they sound horrorable. But there are other places where you can take your child to get the help they need. I have received advise to let the legal system teach my kid a lesson, a few months in prison will strighten the kid out, I was told. But most parents (That I have talked to) just want to rescue them from that and get them help in a different way, even if it means taking a loan on the house, in a safe enviorment where they can grow, remove them from their present life which isnt working for what ever reason. I know it is far from what many believe but it is not hatred torwards the kids that drives the parents to spend their lifes savings on their children. Maybe we are wrong but prison just sounds like a bad choice to many of us, I guess because of what we read about the way it changes people for the worse, having a record and trying to get a job after being released, maybe the prison guards are more compassionate than counselors and the inmates are supportive of each others problems but its not the way we see it when it comes to deciding which road to take. If it turns out to be a bad choice, its easy to look back and say we should have chosen prison. But we are driven by what we believe is best for our children.
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On 2005-10-12 06:31:00, DOC SLOW wrote:
As far as my parents being oblivious, I guess they actually were as both of my parents were deceased and I was on my own. I had other family members trying to step in and intervene by calling my probation officer, having my probation revoked for simple posession of marijuana. ( My cousin actually gave my PO a bag of grass she found in my pocket when she was doing my laundry. )
And being a gun toting boogey man, I wasn't a pistol waiving adolescent. But I would have used it if I had to....You know how bad dope deals go.
I didn't mean any offense to you. My response was more directed at this person...
If my kid was in your position I would have done the same thing. The chances of getting any real help in prison is nil, its a revolving door. If someone approached me with a program which had a slight chance of working I would jump all over it. and, no, I probably wouldnt spend six months researching whether or not it was a perfect fit, if my kid was carrying a gun and needed to be taken down by police I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly. At least you can look back and know your parents cared enough to avoid prison that time, they could have pocketed the money and spent it on themselves if they didnt care.
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On 2005-10-12 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-11 15:19:00, Antigen wrote:
"I quite agree. Desperation is their key marketing ploy. That's why they invest so heavily in propaganda; it yields a very high return.
What's more...
On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly.
We've been watching too much tv these last couple of generations. We loooooves our stories, don't we children? There are to obvious problems w/ the logic of the sales pitch.
Whether or not someone needs to be taken down by police is almost entirely subjective. Almost. It's pretty objective after the takedown and if and when the accused has had a FAIR trial and been convicted of an actual crime. Then it's pretty objective.
When you hire a transport company to abduct your kid and then pay a private prison to confine and, possibly, torment him, what are you really getting that you can't get from the public prison system? The primary difference is that the public sector at least makes a polite courtsey to due process. But if you've got big bags of money to kick down, why you can just buy your way out of that little nagging problem.
Trust me, juvenile detention was less harmful than Straight. And I was in Macon and Clay counties in Georgia. Neither one offered any real help. But then, I had never asked for or wanted any. At least in detention, if someone treats you in any way close to the way we tormented each other in Straight, THEY would be shipped off to the psyche ward, you would regain your peace and quiet.
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
"
When a parent hires a transport company to take their child, its not so the kid can be shipped out to be tortured its an intervention. Its perceived as a better alternative than prison or death. I am not familiar with these places "Seed" and "Straight" they sound horrorable. But there are other places where you can take your child to get the help they need. I have received advise to let the legal system teach my kid a lesson, a few months in prison will strighten the kid out, I was told. But most parents (That I have talked to) just want to rescue them from that and get them help in a different way, even if it means taking a loan on the house, in a safe enviorment where they can grow, remove them from their present life which isnt working for what ever reason. I know it is far from what many believe but it is not hatred torwards the kids that drives the parents to spend their lifes savings on their children. Maybe we are wrong but prison just sounds like a bad choice to many of us, I guess because of what we read about the way it changes people for the worse, having a record and trying to get a job after being released, maybe the prison guards are more compassionate than counselors and the inmates are supportive of each others problems but its not the way we see it when it comes to deciding which road to take. If it turns out to be a bad choice, its easy to look back and say we should have chosen prison. But we are driven by what we believe is best for our children."
Could you please go back to the Teen Torture forum? I'm seriously suicidal and I can't hang around with parents who remind me of parents who pay to have their children kidnapped and brainwashed.
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On 2005-10-12 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
When a parent hires a transport company to take their child, its not so the kid can be shipped out to be tortured its an intervention. Its perceived as a better alternative than prison or death.
Right, I understand that. Had that conversation w/ my dear old dad over 20 years ago. I agree w/ you, I forgave him and he apologized to me; not for the specific bone-headed moves he pulled, but for falling for an outrageous scam that cost both of us and the whole family dearly.
What I'm trying to tell you is that it is a misperception that these coercive, toughlove behavior-mod programs are better or safer than the regular old juvenile or criminal justice system. Now, I'm saying that, not as a rebellious, angry teenager (thought I did say it back then), but as a 40yo mother of 3, one of whom used to be a very rebellious, wreckless, out of control (her own, not just mine) teenager.
In my day, it was probably better. These days, they've got behavior mod programs operating inside the juvenile/criminal 'corrections' sytem. I'm not really kidding when I say there may be a direct, causual relationship between that and the rising rate of youth suicide.
I am not familiar with these places "Seed" and "Straight" they sound horrorable.
Well, in a nutshell, same shit, different wrapper. They were (and their existing spin-offs remain) Synanon/12-step based LGA programs. The basic method of induced emotional and psychological stress, isolation and indoctrination are, verbatim, exactly the same throughout the troubled parent industry.
But there are other places where you can take your child to get the help they need. I have received advise to let the legal system teach my kid a lesson, a few months in prison will strighten the kid out, I was told. But most parents (That I have talked to) just want to rescue them from that and get them help in a different way, even if it means taking a loan on the house, in a safe enviorment where they can grow, remove them from their present life which isnt working for what ever reason. I know it is far from what many believe but it is not hatred torwards the kids that drives the parents to spend their lifes savings on their children.
Right, again, they're selling you a bill of goods. There is no safe, effective panacea. If you have a hard time being gentle and avoiding conflict w/ your kid, what makes you think these strangers in some remote po-dunk out west or offshore will be better able to pull it off?
Please stop and think about the industry's frequent use of the phrase "for whatever reason". Your kid has specific, individual reasons for whatever trouble they're having. Or maybe not. Very often in this industry, it really and truely is the PARENTS who are over-reacting. We tend to imagine the worst. Then when the kid starts to grow up and seperate from the nuclear family a bit, it gets worse. There are more unknowns. Our imaginations run wild. Then, just when we're at the verge of a total mealtdown (or past it), along comes a friendly, passionate advocate/salesman with The Answer® to all your troubles.
Maybe we are wrong but prison just sounds like a bad choice to many of us, I guess because of what we read about the way it changes people for the worse, having a record and trying to get a job after being released, maybe the prison guards are more compassionate than counselors and the inmates are supportive of each others problems but its not the way we see it when it comes to deciding which road to take. If it turns out to be a bad choice, its easy to look back and say we should have chosen prison. But we are driven by what we believe is best for our children."
First, most of these kids weren't ACTUALLY in prison. Most of these kids just have parents who ASSUME (for lack of faith in their own children) that that's the only possible outcome. These poor kids get thrown in w/ those rare few who really are psychotic, violent and dangerous. What a mindfuck, eh? Add to that that they're REQUIRED, as part of their "treatment" to confess that they are, indeed, just as fucked up as Mom ever suspected, even moreso, and so, so happy for the chance at salvation. If they try, by any means, to tell you otherwise, there are consequences.
Just do your damned homework, parents! Would you let your pedeatrician inject your baby w/ potentially deadly toxins w/o checking into the risks and benefits for yourself? Oh yeah... I almost forgot, you would and probably did, like most of us.
It's time now, in THIS generation, to resurrect a little healthy credulity. Have a little faith in yourself, your kids and the good old fashioned, unconditional familial love that have, for millennia now, gotten most of us through those awkward years between childhood and adulthood.
It's not perfect, there are no guarantees and I'm not trying to tell you that there are any guarantees. But I remain convinced that this is a superior, more reliable, less risky and better approach to the troubling experience of watching your baby grow up and learn to work w/o a net.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous
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Holy Handcuffs Batman!!!! It's been about 5 days since I started this thread, I had a busy weekend. I want to clarify once again Deserve to Be There. I fucked up in my wording because I use goddamn library computers and they only give you 30 minutes tops. I did not have all damn day to analyze the shit, I just typed it so here goes. None of us were angels. None. We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track. By saying we deserved to be THERE, I messed up, because THERE was so messed up. Helen Petermann, Jim Hartz, Aimee Wrong, Liz Cassidy, Chris Cassler, all became tools of evil at one time or another and I do not condone what they did at all. For those on the board that have known me for a while, you probably miss my insights and such. Sorry, but the well ran dry for starters, but now we have some folks from the Late '70's Boom Era coming into the forum and sparking up memories again. As for how I remember things so well, think about that big guy in the Jack Nickolson movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." He never spoke, they called him chief, and he just kicked back and observed. That is how it was for me. I would go 3 or 4 days without speaking if I could manage it. My eyes were open and my mind was like a giant VCR. It recorded everything. Is that a simple enough explaination? I also write about other things. Currently, I have a monologue being incorporated into a rather lengthly song for a local punk rock band. I also have 2 science fiction stories evolving. Just for shits and giggles I will post a brief synopsis for you all on that free for all forum just as soon as I have the time. Library Time, I mean. Well it's been fun and I hope to God that nobody copies and pastes the derogatory stuff I wrote about slow typists sitting in the dark and tries to post what I ended up editting, god I hate when that happens![ This Message was edited by: 85 Day Jerk on 2005-10-17 16:42 ]
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On 2005-10-17 16:22:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"Holy Handcuffs Batman!!!! It's been about 5 days since I started this thread, I had a busy weekend. I want to clarify once again Deserve to Be There. I fucked up in my wording because I use goddamn library computers and they only give you 30 minutes tops. I did not have all damn day to analyze the shit, I just typed it so here goes. None of us were angels. None. We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track. By saying we deserved to be THERE, I messed up, because THERE was so messed up. Helen Petermann, Jim Hartz, Aimee Wrong, Liz Cassidy, Chris Cassler, all became tools of evil at one time or another and I do not condone what they did at all. For those on the board that have known me for a while, you probably miss my insights and such. Sorry, but the well ran dry for starters, but now we have some folks from the Late '70's Boom Era coming into the forum and sparking up memories again. As for how I remember things so well, think about that big guy in the Jack Nickolson movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." He never spoke, they called him chief, and he just kicked back and observed. That is how it was for me. I would go 3 or 4 days without speaking if I could manage it. My eyes were open and my mind was like a giant VCR. It recorded everything. Is that a simple enough explaination? I also write about other things. Currently, I have a monologue being incorporated into a rather lengthly song for a local punk rock band. I also have 2 science fiction stories evolving. Just for shits and giggles I will post a brief synopsis for you all on that free for all forum just as soon as I have the time. Library Time, I mean. Well it's been fun and I hope to God that nobody copies and pastes the derogatory stuff I wrote about slow typists sitting in the dark and tries to post what I ended up editting, god I hate when that happens![ This Message was edited by: 85 Day Jerk on 2005-10-17 16:42 ]"
Lots of kids were put in there for NO reason whatsoever except that their parents were scared and the staff took advantage of that. Kids that had never even seen drugs let along do them. That was me and I didn't fucking deserve shit.
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I most respectfully post my disagreement with the statement that anyone needed their freedom taken away.
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c'mon, Jerk, admit it. You liked Straight, and enjoy reminescing about it. It was fun. It's OK, you can share that with us, we're the Group!
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Damn, Jerk, you've convinced me! STRAIGHT, INCORPORATED SAVED MY LIFE!!!!!! I DESERVED TO BE THERE!!!! WITHOUT STRAIGHT, I'D BE DEADINSANEORINJAIL!!!!!!!!
Here I'd been, wasting my life hating Straight, until finally, 85Day Jerk set me right about the whole thing. Thanks, Jerk.
Wow. What a breakthrough.
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On 2005-10-17 16:22:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.
Uh, speak for yourself. If anything I needed a little more freedom to figure out my place in life and the world. A parents job isn't to control kids and take away freedom, its to help them understand how to deal with that freedom appropriately...to help steer them through the rough waters of adolescence and guide them into adulthood. Natural consequences of impulsive actions during that time are essential to their development.
For those on the board that have known me for a while, you probably miss my insights and such.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Wow, Jerk, it's all clear to me now-----I DESERVED to be forced to sit in my shit for hours, be deprived of food, sleep, education, normal socialization, and freedom, I DESERVED to be harrassed, humiliated, poked, prodded, beaten up, brainwashed, assaulted, and bullied. After all, I was a DRUGGIE!!!! You know, a teenage pot smoker, an overdose waiting to happen. I think I liked to listen to music my parents had no appreciation for, and I may have skipped school once or twice. Oh yeah, and I was growing my hair longer than my dad approved of it being. Definitely deserved to be in Straight, it saved my life , or at least "appreciate my freedom and get my life on track". Thanks for the insight, Jerk, you've really shown me the error of my Straight-hating ways. Now, thanks to Jerk's "Awareness", I realize that Straight was a wonderful place that I was priveledged to attend. I appreciate the new perspective you've given me on the whole Straight, Inc. experience, Jerk, you've really shown me the light.
I just wish I hadn't wasted all that time hating Straight and everything it did. Boy, do I feel stupid now.......
-
"
On 2005-10-17 16:22:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
None of us were angels. None. We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.
No, my life was just starting to get on track. That's what scared my mother so much. I was starting to make real friends instead of just going through each school day trying to dodge the worst bullying w/o getting into trouble. I was making money working w/ my dad in a little repair shop. I was getting good grades, playing sports and (shock and aw) actually maybe starting to forge a romantic type relationship with one very talented guitar player. He landed up at Berkeley. Oh, thank you thank you, Straight, Inc., for saving me from that desperate fate!
:roll: A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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I think everyone is missing the point.
No one actual deserves to be abused, however, some people did need a break from the downward spiral that was caused by you or me or our parents or any number of factors.
Straight wasnt the answer, but I think for many people, being free wasnt the answer either. Now, that sucks real bad....but its just the truth. Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.
I was a total asshole before my mom put me in there, did I deserve it? NO. Did I need to get away from the sick homelife I had been enduring for years and years? YES. That being said, I was a total asshole AFTER I got out too.
The reality is that we were damned if we did and damned if we didnt. Its not a question of deserving anything really.
I was very much like Ginger, I got sent away to my aunts house and sat up and flew right for almost a year trying to get on track. This was my first abusive treatment. my Aunt was a sadistic tyrant and no amount of do-gooding was going to get me anywhere. Straight As, cheerleading, even the friggin school paper. And you know what? After all that, my parents were still so jacked up that I was still treated like an offender. So of course I acted an ass when I got home. Straight wasnt the answer any more than than my parents were, see?
You can knee me in the balls for saying this but, we have to accept where we came from and stop placing blame and talking about what we deserve. The world is a big ugly UNFAIR place and I am so sick of people running through life thinking they are so god damned entitled. It is possible to make the choice to make the best of who you are, regardless of where you come from. You just keep on keepin on.
YES it sucked, and YES it was ABUSIVE and YES we have lingering neurosis because of it.....but by hating a thing so much, you only give it more power. Straight will keep on abusing you until you die if you let it.
The best we can do now, is try to stop it from happening to others.
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On 2005-10-18 12:42:00, Carmel wrote:
"I think everyone is missing the point.
Straight wasnt the answer, but I think for many people, being free wasnt the answer either. Now, that sucks real bad....but its just the truth. Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.
I think that coming from a "broken home" (over 50% of households in some parts of these United States) would have been a hell of a lot healthier than enduring a year or so of Straight. Saying that I was in a "downward spiral" that needed some kind of intervention, maybe not as drastic as Straight, but some kind of intervention nonetheless, is part and parcel of the DEADINSANEINJAIL statements that the Staff at Straight and Stepcultists of all varieties like to proclaim, and it is complete and utter jive.
Looking for anwers? Straight wasn't "the answer" but maybe another program would be? How 'bout thinking of life and it's problems NOT as a question or problem to be "answered" but as a mystery to be enjoyed? How 'bout letting each of us come up with our own answers (yes, but your best thinking got you here)? How about not buying into the lies of Straight and Stepcult that we were damaged, that we had inherent defects that needed "treatment"?
I'm not "missing the point" at all, Carmel. Jerk believes that we deserved to be in Straight. He has said it several times, and I find it even more offensive than his reminescences of all the "good times" he had there.
So what program are you sending your kids to Carmel? Which one is the "answer"?
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On 2005-10-18 12:42:00, Carmel wrote:
Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.
I'm guessing you switched the sense of that sentence, right? Sitting in shit is no worse than living w/ sadistic lunatics?
There's a difference, though. My fucked up parents had to work and sleep and all. I got to go to school and even to visit my rich cousins for a couple of weeks over the summer time. And they were very cool people, for spoiled rich kids anyway. BTW, Straight took them away too. No intentionally. Just that, well, you go missing for a couple of years and your own mother is telling everybody you're a heroin shooting street walker, well... we lost touch and never reconnected.
But there was only so much my mom could do, only so much control she could exert. That was the problem, from her point of view. I was escaping. That's what got most of us in the Program; we dared to start outgrowing the cute little pup stage of childhood. Straight was the answer for parents who couldn't handle reality.
Now, all that is said and done many years ago as far as I'm concerned. I escaped the influence of those sadistic lunatics.
The trouble I'm trying to address is not personal. I'm fine, really, thanks for your concern. The problem I'm tryng to address is a broadly held misconception that these sadistic lunatics are sane and competent to make and enforce laws. We let them spend public funding, indoctrinate our children through the Ad Council, in the schools and elsewhere, to demand and gain access to my children's piss for their perverse interests, to make any of us unemployed and unemployable and even to send our young men and women to kill and die over the ludicrous notion that doing so will stop CIA from growing and profiting from one plant or another in various foreign countries.
When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do.
William Blake
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On 2005-10-18 12:52:00, RTP2003 wrote:
"
On 2005-10-18 12:42:00, Carmel wrote:
"I think everyone is missing the point.
Straight wasnt the answer, but I think for many people, being free wasnt the answer either. Now, that sucks real bad....but its just the truth. Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.
I think that coming from a "broken home" (over 50% of households in some parts of these United States) would have been a hell of a lot healthier than enduring a year or so of Straight. Saying that I was in a "downward spiral" that needed some kind of intervention, maybe not as drastic as Straight, but some kind of intervention nonetheless, is part and parcel of the DEADINSANEINJAIL statements that the Staff at Straight and Stepcultists of all varieties like to proclaim, and it is complete and utter jive.
Looking for anwers? Straight wasn't "the answer" but maybe another program would be? How 'bout thinking of life and it's problems NOT as a question or problem to be "answered" but as a mystery to be enjoyed? How 'bout letting each of us come up with our own answers (yes, but your best thinking got you here)? How about not buying into the lies of Straight and Stepcult that we were damaged, that we had inherent defects that needed "treatment"?
I'm not "missing the point" at all, Carmel. Jerk believes that we deserved to be in Straight. He has said it several times, and I find it even more offensive than his reminescences of all the "good times" he had there.
So what program are you sending your kids to Carmel? Which one is the "answer"?"
Look, you are just putting words in my mouth. The truth is that I am no way supporting Straight, or saying that anyone needs to be in any program.
I dont care what Jerk is saying, it isnt what I AM saying, RTP. When I said everyone, I meant it.
"Saying that I was in a "downward spiral" that needed some kind of intervention, maybe not as drastic as Straight, but some kind of intervention nonetheless, is part and parcel of the DEADINSANEINJAIL statements that the Staff at Straight and Stepcultists of all varieties like to proclaim"
This just isnt true, it isnt anything to do with deadinsane orinjail, as much as you may want it to be. How can it be if you are in a home where you are beaten or molested or neglected? Are you saying that an intervention on behalf of someone going through these things is Stepcultism? How can that be? Truly, how can it? i prefer not to let these situations remain "mysteries" to be explored. I hope you wouldnt either. No, the only way it comes close to what you say is if STEPCULTISM happens to be the itervening party. There is a difference. All intervention is not wrong.
My opinion may not apply to you RTP, it cant possibly apply to everyone, I know this. However, I dont think its unreasonable to assume it may have applied to quite alot of people. And I am only able to speak of things from my point of view. Please dont be so defensive, and stop twisting what I say, It just isnt right. I never said any program would be right at all, in fact I said very much to the contrary.
I know you dont like me RTP, but it doesnt mean we cant try and have understanding. Im sorry you feel like I support the program. Maybe I should write 100 times, "I dont support Straight" and we can have this conversation again.
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On 2005-10-18 13:32:00, Carmel wrote:
How can it be if you are in a home where you are beaten or molested or neglected? Are you saying that an intervention on behalf of someone going through these things is Stepcultism? How can that be? Truly, how can it?
No, I don't think he said that. I think he said it's the same bogus deadinsaneorinjail apologia favored by stepcraft practitioners everywhere. It's not unique to them, however. Brother Roloff's worshipers use the same schtick. So do the Mormons. And, interestingly, so do the scammers in the Haitian/Dominican mountains who call themselves Voodoo Masters. So do the Clams, so do some Catholics. Proof, once again, that a million people or more can, indeed, all be in agreement and still completely wrong.
So you're fucked up parents wanted to help you? No, doesn't sound like it. Sounds to me asif you were responding with reasonably normal, healthy outrage and rebellion to being treated poorly. That's what they were trying to fix. That's the problem that the troubled parent industry exists to address. If you had been born a decade or so later, you might have been tagged Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Had you been born a century or more earlier, Draptomania. Still would have been bullshit.
You are an asshole, however. But that's what I like about you.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous
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Shit, it's my parents that needed the intervention!
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Sure I needed rehab, I smoked dope 3 times in a 2 years. Maybe only Miller could save me? I'll be at his bankruptcy trail in Nov..
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On 2005-10-18 18:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sure I needed rehab, I smoked dope 3 times in a 2 years. Maybe only Miller could save me? I'll be at his bankruptcy trail in Nov..
"
That's right, Druggie, only I could save you----sure, Straight was already up and running by the time I took the helm, but it didn't become an effective medicine for treating the disease of teen-age drug use until after I got there. With a 94% success rate, Straight, Inc. (during my tenure) was the only hope for you druggie wastrels.
Anon, you may have smoked marijuana "only" three times, but it is a known fact that one puff of the wacky weed leads to the enslavement of addiction, inevitably followed by the descent into JAILS, INSTITUTIONS, and DEATH. Face the facts, Anon, not only did you deserve to be in Straight, Inc., but you needed to be there in order to escape the horrible fate that you would certainly have succumbed to had we not so compassionately intervened. Think about this, Anon. You can thank me later, after you have purged yourself of your Druggie Will.
In closing, I want to extend my thanks in advance for your attendance at my court appearance. It will be good to have someone there showing support for my side, I've been so disgusted by the ungrateful druggies badgering me when I show up at the courthouse. I look forward to seeing you there, and again, thank you for the support.
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On 2005-10-17 16:22:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.
Thou art a Straightloving buffoon.
You really believe that shit they shoveled at Straight, don't you, Jerk? Mm Mm! Yummy shit!
I'm very disgusted with your belief that there was anything positive about Straight.
Oh, one more thing-----leave the word "we" out of your moronic assertions.
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Anon, not only did you deserve to be in Straight, Inc., but you needed to be there in order to escape the horrible fate that you would certainly have succumbed to had we not so compassionately intervened. Think about this, Anon. You can thank me later, after you have purged yourself of your Druggie Will.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :tup:
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On 2005-10-18 14:47:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-10-18 13:32:00, Carmel wrote:
How can it be if you are in a home where you are beaten or molested or neglected? Are you saying that an intervention on behalf of someone going through these things is Stepcultism? How can that be? Truly, how can it?
So you're fucked up parents wanted to help you? No, doesn't sound like it. Sounds to me asif you were responding with reasonably normal, healthy outrage and rebellion to being treated poorly. That's what they were trying to fix. That's the problem that the troubled parent industry exists to address. If you had been born a decade or so later, you might have been tagged Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Had you been born a century or more earlier, Draptomania. Still would have been bullshit.
I agree with this Ginger, the odds are that the intervention will be borne of bullshit stepcultism....but it doesnt change the idea that what is happeneing in the home is wrong and could use some changing. I never felt as if my parents were trying to help me, admitting I was an asshole is not an admission of needing that kind of sick twisted help.
I think there needs to be a distinction here between the problem, and the so-called "resolution" that the program(s) provided. The "resolution" was wrong, but that doesnt mean the problem doesnt merit attention. If I am being molested, it would stand to reason that it should be stopped. Its just very unfortunate that an intervention might come in the form of a program.
My mother was always weak and dependent....on any man that would let her be. I suffered because she gave more of a damn about supporting them than she did me. I didnt get shoved into the program because I was a bad seed, it was because my mother wanted me out of her hair so she could enjoy the dysfunctionality of her realtionships un-fettered.
Its just not unreasonable to admit the idea that there are indeed situations ( most all situations) that need "help". Thats IS NOT to say that any brand of stepcultism or program dogma is the "help" they need. It seems like everyone here thinks you are a blue chair pimp if you admit that there are problems that need solving.
I think its important to retain our humanity and have faith that there has to be a better way than the way we were treated. But there NEEDs to be a way.
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Jesus Lord, Jerk came back to say he didn't think Straight was the right way. So what he thinks people needed their freedom taken away. I happen to disagree, but it is really not all that uncommon a sentiment. After all, aren't kids always getting grounded, etc.? It is a pretty common parenting technique. Doyo. Fuckin learn how to read. Y'all are the morons, and actually, come to think of it, I am more frightened of people like you who jump on the bandwagon of dissing Jerk when you obviously never read what he wrote. Pfffft. Go to your rooms, all of you!!! And be a LITTLE bit more careful when you vote, for fuck sake.
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Being grounded is a whole lot different than losing all basic human rights. I DID read what he wrote.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=#139613 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12210&forum=7&start=#139613) As to whether or not they deserved it, the people I seen in my first days there did. They were upper crust white bread punks that had gone their whole lives without a serious ass whooping. They had no values, no goals and no directions. Most went to private schools.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =40#141541 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12210&forum=7&start=40#141541) None of us were angels. None. We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.
I saw where he restated his view on whether or not anyone needed to be there but the above quotes really show a lot too. Sounds like he was pissed about not being part of the popular crowd and was glad to see them "get their asses whooped".
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Again, you frighten me more than Jerk with your crap analysis. Jerk wanted to be part of the popular crowd? That was worth a laugh. Maybe I am misreading your post & it should be read as comedy.
The thing is, man, y'all are whacked jumping on his ass like that. Or whatever, he's your new whipping boy.
I think you are decontextualizing.
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But he obviously is unaware of the nature of straight as being a place so corrupt and malicious that it WOULD keep kids who had never even done drugs. That he hasn't become aware of that fact is scary.
Also that he apparently hasnn't considered the remote possibility that all the stories the kids were telling about themselves were total LIES just to get the fuck out of there. How can he not see that as much FUCKING more likely than their stories were all true??
Thats my question.
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On 2005-10-19 07:28:00, Carmel wrote:
Its just not unreasonable to admit the idea that there are indeed situations ( most all situations) that need "help". Thats IS NOT to say that any brand of stepcultism or program dogma is the "help" they need. It seems like everyone here thinks you are a blue chair pimp if you admit that there are problems that need solving.
I think its important to retain our humanity and have faith that there has to be a better way than the way we were treated. But there NEEDs to be a way.
Right, but none of these situations are really new. What have we done to address such issues for the past 4k years or so? How did we ever survive as a race? Most of the time, I'm convinced that it's the overwhelming vast majority of cases, no formal intervention is needed or helpful. We just all go about our lives, figure things out, grow up... think sustainable, if not perfect, organic farming vs. unsustainable, toxic agrifactories.
To the Jerk, god this has gotten out of hand. I think I get what you're saying. I'll even open myself to the slings an arrows by telling you the same line of reasoning crossed my own mind while in the Program. Most of the other kids were spoiled rotten bratts who, I though, sort of did deserve to be confined, scolded and knocked down a peg or two. But I never understood at the time the serious damage that was happening to me and to others right in front of me. I never thought anybody deserved that. And it certainly wasn't helpful.
Now, as an adult, having had time to think about it more clearly, I do understand the damage. Hence my change in posture over the years from 'water under the bridge' to 'no, this is a serious problem that we need* to address.'
As to the really unfortunate kids who had real drug problems or real mental problems, I felt sorry for them even then. They were least able to let the bullshit roll off.
*in case anyone wonders, I try never to put those two words together unless I mean it litterally. We need to address the problem because it's a problem, still, maybe moreso now, to us and our own children. Not a need born of a fear of external, contrived consequences, but an actual need just like we need to make sure we can pay the heating bill this winter.
I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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On 2005-10-10 12:59:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"
One of the founders owned a radio/television station. His name was Rahall.
I went to school with Brett Rahall (yes, in a private school, call me a spoiled brat or whatever. I suffered more in my childhood than you could ever begin to imagine"
As to whether or not they deserved it, the people I seen in my first days there did. They were upper crust white bread punks that had gone their whole lives without a serious ass whooping. They had no values, no goals and no directions. Most went to private schools.
Well, that all applies to me. I had only smoked pot a few times, drank occasionally and in general just pissed my parents off. They had no time to really teach me about life. Seemed to haev left that up to their elite private school to handle that job. That means I deserved to he in that hell hole that almost ruined my life that completely twisted my views on EVERYTHING???????????????
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This might settle some of the contraversy.....Jerk deserved to be there but we did not.
Jerk said it, I believe it that settles it. An no I wasn't the anonymous poster that said this before but it seemed to fit.
::bigsmilebounce:: ::rainbow:: ::rainbow:: ::rainbow:: ::troll::
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I have to agree with you on that Ginger...in the largest scheme of things......its a battle to overcome. Either you survive and become more than that which you were subjected to, or you dont. However, I still stand by the idea that a butterfly's passage can cause an earthquake across the world. Else what are we fighting for?
Even if we were to shut down all the programs, it doesnt mean all the victims would end up better off, given the above point of view. But our "intervention" may set in motion the very smallest of changes that would help those imprisoned to overcome. [ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-10-19 22:47 ]
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Somebody get me a doctor.
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But he obviously is unaware of the nature of straight as being a place so corrupt and malicious that it WOULD keep kids who had never even done drugs. That he hasn't become aware of that fact is scary.
Here's what gets me about this. NOBODY, whether they were "real druggies" or not deserved any of it.
Neither I, nor Jerk, nor anyone deserved it any more or less than some 'rich kid who hardly ever did drugs' did. No one should have been put in that place, PERIOD.
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I agree. NO KID deserved to be in Straight. If some of us needed "help" of some kind, thats fine....Straight just wasnt the right kind of "help" for anyone.
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That's what I'm sayin'
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OK, I agree that he did say that no one deserved to be in there. He did, however, express a contempt for the "spoiled, private school kids whe never had am asswhooping in their lives.....who derserved to be there." Does anon esle see this?
And who is he to say that some deserved "intervention" or not??
P.S. Speaking as a private schooled kid, I was ANYTHING but spoiled, you should meet my father :flame: !!!!
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woops....anyone else see this.
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see what?
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On 2005-10-21 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
""spoiled, private school kids whe never had am asswhooping in their lives.....who derserved to be there."
What does that statement say to you, I'm curious.
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Son, go git there stick of the wall so's I can teach you a lesson. Ya know, the one with the holes cut out so it has less wind resistance and hurts a hulluva lot more. (thwack, pow, uhgggggg, crack). There. That'll learn ya.
Better yet, lemme get some of your fat old brothers and sisters to sit on you for a couple of hours. That'll make sure you never chew on that wild weed again!!! :evil:
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On 2005-10-21 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK, I agree that he did say that no one deserved to be in there. He did, however, express a contempt for the "spoiled, private school kids whe never had am asswhooping in their lives.....who derserved to be there." Does anon esle see this?
And who is he to say that some deserved "intervention" or not??
P.S. Speaking as a private schooled kid, I was ANYTHING but spoiled, you should meet my father :flame: !!!!"
Plus a lot of them may have played up how really "spoiled and selfish" they were to look good to staff.
DUH
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yes, but 85DJ didn't like them, so they deserved to be in Straight.
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On 2005-10-21 14:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-21 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK, I agree that he did say that no one deserved to be in there. He did, however, express a contempt for the "spoiled, private school kids whe never had am asswhooping in their lives.....who derserved to be there." Does anon esle see this?
And who is he to say that some deserved "intervention" or not??
P.S. Speaking as a private schooled kid, I was ANYTHING but spoiled, you should meet my father :flame: !!!!"
Plus a lot of them may have played up how really "spoiled and selfish" they were to look good to staff.
DUH"
Naw, actually my mom worked two jobs so they could afford the tuition. No one at Straight knew I lived on the water in a nice house until I took in newcomers (which was 8 months after I was in there.) I was anything but a "jerk". I sat for 8 months not doing a damn thing. People actually felt sorry for me after sitting on first phase for 5 months.
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On 2005-10-10 12:59:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"
One of the founders owned a radio/television station. His name was Rahall.
Went to school with Brett.
As to whether or not they deserved it, the people I seen in my first days there did. They were upper crust white bread punks that had gone their whole lives without a serious ass whooping.
Doesn't this say a lot about his feelings about forced incarceration as a teen???
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On 2005-10-22 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
As to whether or not they deserved it, the people I seen in my first days there did. They were upper crust white bread punks that had gone their whole lives without a serious ass whooping.
Doesn't this say a lot about his feelings about forced incarceration as a teen???"
Not so much, I don't think, as it says about the power of the Program. I suppose how you viewed the whole thing would depend on where you come from; what experience and beliefs you brought with you. I generally believed the idea that most of the snotty kids were something similar to the Program idea of druggiekids. They seemed a lot like the silly, mean, clueless or just spoiled kids I'd gone to school with.
This was not a firmly set idea in my mind. Just one item on the stack of prejudices inherited from home that I hadn't yet really tested. Certainly, at least at first, I thought I was different; that they might belong there, but I certainly didn't. And I'll be a big person about it and admit that I enjoyed a little private vindication from it. These weren't the same individual cheer leaders and bullies who had excluded me from their cliques. But they were the same types.
Since we weren't allowed to get to know each other, all we had to go on was the staff approved version of everything. At least at first. As I did get to know some of these people a little, on the sly, outside of Program protocol, I was... well, damned glad I hadn't been able to open my stupid mouth and say what I was thinking. The law of unitended consequences played out to teach me what a monumental asshole I had been thinking I knew any damned thing at all about 'druggiekids'.
But the Program worked very well on a lot of people. Some are still stuck in the twilight zone even after all these years. Remember Mark what's his name, who went all attack dog after Colleen in defense of Susan Byrd?
Bob, I hope you're not saying you still think we were all (but thee) in need of a little brainwashing. Or that any transient asshole remark means a full shut out. I, for one, really enjoy your raw narratives. Not that you're the most dazzling writer ever. It's your left-handed take on things and the guileless, experiential way you tell it.
Anyway, I hope you're well. Why should we take advice on sex from the Pope? If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
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On 2005-10-22 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-10 12:59:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"
One of the founders owned a radio/television station. His name was Rahall.
Went to school with Brett.
As to whether or not they deserved it, the people I seen in my first days there did. They were upper crust white bread punks that had gone their whole lives without a serious ass whooping.
Doesn't this say a lot about his feelings about forced incarceration as a teen???"
Ging, I understand your take on thins, but the fac remains that he wrote tha above. The DERSERVED to be there. That says to me that he still belives that.
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On 2005-10-22 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
Ging, I understand your take on thins, but the fac remains that he wrote tha above. The DERSERVED to be there. That says to me that he still belives that.
Yeah, I know. And maybe there's more to that than what I'm willing to entertain. After all, I'm neither Bob's shrink nor his mother. Just that, in context, I think people are reading it a whole lot more litterally and seriously than he wrote it. Or maybe it's a bit of program baggage that he'd be better off leaving behind.
If that's the case, Bob, leave it in a busy bus station then stand back and watch the fun! :em: Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth; you don't know what life is worth;.......If you know what life is worth, you will look for your's on earth.
--Bob Marley
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But the Program worked very well on a lot of people. Some are still stuck in the twilight zone even after all these years. Remember Mark what's his name, who went all attack dog after Colleen in defense of Susan Byrd?
No... but I'm curious to know a little more about this.
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Oh, well, it was a couple of years ago and mostly on Don's list. Basically, Colleen sent a little poison pen email to Ms. Byrd (I think, could have been some other old hag who played the same sort of role in this tragic comedy)
Anyway, this Mark guy came out of lurking to try and rally the forces to soundly, legally, socially and spiritually condemn Colleen for this horrid act of rebellion.
This guy blew up the list for like WEEKS trying to get us all to hate Colleen or file complaints or some damned thing. In so doing, he told us all about how grateful he was to Straight and how he'd been given, not only his sanity, but a lucritive career by the Executives, how rich they had made him and how he'd defend and support them till his dying breath.
It was funny as shit.
I must admit, I had a great deal of fun at his expense.
Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)