Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Desparate Dad on October 06, 2005, 11:47:00 AM
-
I currently have a date to bring my son to Anchor in Mid October, having been referred by another boy's parents. After reading this forum today, I am having misgivings...I would like to hear some definite examples of good and bad from parents of students....anyone out there?
-
Do not believe the majority of what you read on this forum. Go to http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com) and post a request for information on the program. You will get responses from other parents. Have you visited the program facility?
The posters on this forum are on a mission to discredit any and all programs. You should carefully investigate the program you are considering and get more referrals than just one parent, but do not rely on THIS forum.
-
On 2005-10-06 08:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Do not believe the majority of what you read on this forum. Go to http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com) and post a request for information on the program. You will get responses from other parents. Have you visited the program facility?
The posters on this forum are on a mission to discredit any and all programs. You should carefully investigate the program you are considering and get more referrals than just one parent, but do not rely on THIS forum."
Strugglingteens.com is a site designed to convince parents that placing their child in a program-- even the most notoriously abusive ones-- is always the right thing to do. Some of the facilities that advertise on strugglingteens are known to be abusive, but they still let them advertise there anyway. The parents who post there are desperate to justify their bad choices (placing their child is unlicensed, often abusive program), and they try their best not to let the facts get in their way.
Now, to your questions about Anchor: you should read the warning signs list on the ISAC site (www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)). Make several unannouced visits to the facility *before* placing your child there. Call the authorities in Montana (social services, board of education) and ask about Anchor's status with the state-- have there been any complaints filed against them? Is their academic program accredited? Are they licensed as a treatment/educational facility?
Good luck.
-
desparate dad,
read things here in order to give you an idea of things to look out for. but like the previous poster said, most people here are anti all programs, good, bad, and needed. visit the facility. ask questions. the biggest concern for me was availability to my child. i wanted to talk to my child whenever i wanted, even if that meant calling in the middle of the night. i also wanted to know i could see my child whenever i wanted to. i am sure if i took advantage of the openness of the school, then they may have requested that i limit my calls or visits, but being sensible yet still making random calls and visits, that never happened. good luck
-
good advice about visisting isaac's sight. also, call the local newspapers in montana and the police station to see if there have been reports filed or written about that particular school.
-
Faith based schools are not the solution for straightening out wayward teens.
If you are intent upon teaching your son respect for God, Country and Family Values, may I suggest you do the job yourself?
Sending him away is a cop out. An abdication of your duty and responsibility as a parent to LEAD by example.
What would Jesus do? I don't know, but I seriously doubt he'd approve of forcing anyone to accept Christ behind the closed doors of a locked faith-based program.
As for the recommendation that you visit Struggling Teens, that's a great idea if you are looking for an excuse to institutionalize your child in a restrictive, custodial (and therefore potentially abusive) program.
:roll:
-
I have read through a number of posts on this forum and heard allegations, but nothing from a parent of, or former student of, Anchor Academy. I support strict adherence to rules and advocate corporal discipline, but dehumanizing is not what I believe in....Telling people they are worthles, trash, and no good doesn't help people. My son needs structure and self-esteem as well as help with his issues with authority...
-
I have tried to teach him respect for others, God and honesty. I have tried through counselors, friends (adult and other children) to guide him as you say, by example, and by living an honest, truthful life. However, because of his choices in friends, activities (and perhaps my reluctance at an early age to discipline him wiht spankings) he ahs gotten out of control. He has stolen eveything of value in our house, stolen from tohers in the neighborhood, has not embraced an alcohol, drug-free life, even after 3 inpatient facilities and 3 outpatient treatment programs, he needs more help than I can give. Perhaps I am being more than a little sensitive, but I take your accusation that I am copping out as a personal affront on my abilities as a parent. I have another young teen to take care of also, and she deserves to live in a household where she is not afraid to leave the house or come home from school, not knowing what she might find. My son has a very good heart and his base personality is kind and loving...he is very selfish, has drug-induced sociopathic behaviors at times and manipulative....while at the same time, is very intelligent and aware of social wrongdoings (except his own).
-
Dad- are you speaking with an Educational Consultant? You might want to get a few other suggestions for a program for your son. IT is not true that the strugglingteens site is only pro-program. The parents who post there have tried every possible option at home before sending their teen to a program. There are a range of issues discussed and the site's owner, Lon Woodbury, is an excellent and compassionte educational consultant.
There are a range of programs available, and I am not personally in favor of the faith-based programs. I think you need to do more research, but this board is not the place to do it. You will just be attacked for even considering a program.
-
Beware of StrugglingTeen.com website. I first went there asking for information about where to place my daughter. I received countless emails from other parents, all suggesting 'their' program. I found this strange and did some investigating. It turns out, 90% of the programs offered to me included a 'finders fee', suggesting financial motives for all the emails I received. I found this strange, and a bit alarming.
In my honest opinion, 'behavior modification' is not a legitimate therapy. My encounter into this industry has illuminated an entire subculture of greed and abuse. I am not willing to bet my daughters well being by placing her at a facility I can not visit daily. Out of state programs are out of the question. I asked myself, why are most of these programs in such remote states -- with very little regulation? Again, very alarming.
I am not in the position to offer advice of what to do, other than to be cautious of most programs. I chose to keep my daughter at home, and things have worked out fine.
-Formerly Desperate Mother
-
Dad, go ahead and look at Lon's website and forums. But understand going in that it is, first and foremost, a marketing enterprise for Lon personally and for the industry in general. Lon absolutely, positively does not allow serious criticism or indepth discussion on his site.
If you look at it w/ a critical eye, you'll see what's really going on there. First, you rarely hear from the kids who supposedly benefit so much from these programs. It's all about the parents. Second, you'll see the newcomers like yourself asking for help and advice. You won't see any public answers, they only answer privately. If you ask, you'll get all kinds of very compelling promises of salvation. But if you look at the content posted by the older parents, most of them talk about how dismally their graduate "students" are failing, how hard it is to watch them fail and how much tension there exists in their family relationships these days. Then you won't hear from them at all because, if they speak too much of the truth, well then they get banned.
The bottom line is that this industry goes after desperate parents, makes unrealistic promises, charges exhorbinant fees for them and then blames the victim when the program doesn't "work".
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time w/ your son. I don't have an authoritative answer about what you should do to guarantee improvement. I'm just here to tell you that there are many out there who will take your money and, more importantly, your trust and dedication but who cannot deliver what they're promising because it doesn't exist.
The best advice I can give you is to think (for yourself!) about the adults who honestly and rightly won your respect and who's wisdom and guidance have best served you in your sojourn on this Earth. What would they do in your shoes?
It is criminal to steal a purse. It is daring to steal a fortune. It is a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases
--Schiller (1759-1805)
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous
-
On 2005-10-06 08:47:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"I currently have a date to bring my son to Anchor in Mid October, having been referred by another boy's parents. After reading this forum today, I am having misgivings...I would like to hear some definite examples of good and bad from parents of students....anyone out there?"
Dad, I am sorry for your unfortunate situation. It sounds like you have a lot to deal with in your home.
Could you please give some more information? How old is your child? You said he was in inpatient and outpatient therapy. What is his diagnosis?
Residential placement has been shown to be ineffective and often damaging. Research by the Surgeon General's office shows that "warehousing" delinquent youth together in residential facilities often increases delinquent behavior and places "weaker" or smaller or younger children in situations where they may be abused by older, bigger children. Longitudinal (7 year) studies show that 45% of these kids placed return to the same or similar facilities within one year, 75% return to their old behaviors almost immediately upon release and 35% end up incarcerated after the "program."
RTC's are almost never the right way to address a child's needs.
You seem like a smart, caring man. Perhaps you should try to be more involved in community-based treatment for your son. Sending your son to a remote location to be "fixed" by strangers is a dangerous proposition.
Anchor Academy has known affiliations with Roloff Ministries, an organization that has run several confirmedly abusive "programs."
As another poster suggested, check with ISAC and verify that none of the "red flags" of abuse are present at any facility you may consider. Verify that any "school" you consider is fully accredited and authorized by the state IN WHICH IT RESIDES to issue academic credit and/or diplomas.
Be aware that StrugglingTeens is run by an Ed Con that formerly worked for one of the most abusive facilities (CEDU) that was actually sued and prosecuted out of existence for child abuse. Their forums are populated by parents looking to get a referral fee or a tuition credit for their own child. The parent-to-parent networking for profit there colors all judgement and reason :CAVEAT EMPTOR.
Do some research and check back with us when you get some direction. Be sure to consult with the boy's therapist in regard to the appropriateness of RTC placement.
-
Desperate Dad,
How did you come in contact with this parent who recommended Anchor Academy to you? Ask this parent if he/she receives any monetary benefit if you sign your son up at Anchor Academy (like a free months tuition or anything like that). That should be a red flag.
Ask this parent if ALL FAMILY MEMBERS are allowed to communicatevisit with the "student," or if there are any exclusions "if a family member does not BELIEVE in the program."
Visit this school: then ask yourself--"Would I want to be here and follow these rules MYSELF." Ask yourself, "Would I respect MY parents if they sent ME here?"
From reading this school's webpage: It appears that forcing these boys to "become saved" is a priority. Do you personally believe in this type of "salvation" being forced on another human being? Some people just may not be open to "getting their heart right with God," whatever that means!
-
Dear Desperate Dad,
I admit my bias: I work for a program, and have for over seven years. But I do not work with Anchor Academy, and I have never been there. I have had the opportunity to visit extensively with Dennis and TC, who run it, and with some of their other staff. My impression is that they are kind, compassionate, and very knowledgeable. They seem to LIVE their faith, not just talk about it or try to push it on others. In addition, I have spoken to many others in their community, and have never heard anything but wonderful reports.
The best way to know is still to go there yourself. Ask questions. Talk with the other kids. Ask for names of other parents you can talk with, or names of graduates. I agree with previous posts on this site that any reputable program will welcome the scrutiny. I would be careful however, that your son doesn't get a message of fear from you. If you do place him in a program, make certain you are comfortable with it so that you can fully support their work, and your son will see how committed you are to helping him. And don't forget: if your faith is guiding you, pray about the program while you're there.
God Bless-- ::dove::
-
Thank you for your reply. I wonder if you can tell me which web page you read their philosophy. I am not aware that the school even has a web page.....And as far as the referral parent goes, their son left the school the week after we spoke, so no tuition credit was given...I was amazed at the tuition of this school....and the availability of scholarships for those that can't afford it. This school is not in it for the money, I can assure you.....The price is equivalent to most local non-resident private schools and far less than some. I spoke with the local newspaper and there was nothing negative that they had to say with the exception of one charge of a staff member, immediately fired, innappropriately touching a student...
-
On 2005-10-06 09:29:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"I have read through a number of posts on this forum and heard allegations, but nothing from a parent of, or former student of, Anchor Academy. I support strict adherence to rules and advocate corporal discipline, but dehumanizing is not what I believe in....Telling people they are worthles, trash, and no good doesn't help people. My son needs structure and self-esteem as well as help with his issues with authority..."
Dad, you sound like a good guy ... just trust us when we tell us there is a fine line between corporal discipline and corporal PUNISHMENT.
Please, before you send your son away, make sure the program does not condone crossing the line as a means to make your son right with God.
Thanks and good luck. Remember, kids do learn from their mistakes when allowed to make them.
:wave:
-
Talk to the referral parent's kid - you will get the insider's view. If he left prior to completion, I wouldn't put any credibility into it. If he completed, and is sincere about how it helped, that's a good start.
:cool:
-
Desperate Dad: read on the topic "Anchor Academy" 9-30-05 and there is a posting for the web site to this school.
You also need to "google" the name of the owners and the school name and read the newspaper articles for yourself, too.
-
On 2005-10-06 12:04:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"Thank you for your reply. I wonder if you can tell me which web page you read their philosophy. I am not aware that the school even has a web page.....And as far as the referral parent goes, their son left the school the week after we spoke, so no tuition credit was given...I was amazed at the tuition of this school....and the availability of scholarships for those that can't afford it. This school is not in it for the money, I can assure you.....The price is equivalent to most local non-resident private schools and far less than some. I spoke with the local newspaper and there was nothing negative that they had to say with the exception of one charge of a staff member, immediately fired, innappropriately touching a student..."
You're right, DD, they're not in it for the money. Their tuition is only about 20% of what the usual scam artists charge. That's a good sign.
Why did the referrer's boy leave?
-
On 2005-10-06 12:04:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"Thank you for your reply. I wonder if you can tell me which web page you read their philosophy. I am not aware that the school even has a web page.....And as far as the referral parent goes, their son left the school the week after we spoke, so no tuition credit was given...I was amazed at the tuition of this school....and the availability of scholarships for those that can't afford it. This school is not in it for the money, I can assure you.....The price is equivalent to most local non-resident private schools and far less than some. I spoke with the local newspaper and there was nothing negative that they had to say with the exception of one charge of a staff member, immediately fired, innappropriately touching a student..."
One reason they charge less is that they're part of a church ministry (Baptist, I believe).
-
One employee "touched a boy inappropriately...but was fired.."
Desperate Dad: do you want to take the chance that THIS type thing could happen to YOUR SON? Hardly matters if the child predator is "fired immediately or not," after your son has been sexually abused now does it?
-
Well- I guess nobody better go to a Catholic church!
-
You can go to the Catholic Church, just don't leave your kids unattended!
-
On 2005-10-06 08:47:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"I currently have a date to bring my son to Anchor in Mid October, having been referred by another boy's parents. After reading this forum today, I am having misgivings...I would like to hear some definite examples of good and bad from parents of students....anyone out there?"
I would encourage you to go to Havre Mt.and visit with the staff and see what is happening there. There is a negative stance being taken by this forum against Anchor and I have been trying to change that. I have met about 40 of the boys from Anchor and was impressed with them. I am scheduled to go and see the facility and take to the boys who are there and "not investigate, but observe firsthand." The alternative for some of these boys is to go to a state reform school or even the penitenary (They will end up there, at the rate some of them are going). That is not a solution. So, Anchor Academy is trying to help. Regarding the accusation that they force you to get "saved." That is not even worth responding to. You don't force "salvation" on anyone. That has to come from the Lord. Again, Anchor dismissed the person who was inapporpriate. What are you going to do...people are that way. We have that happen in other organizations and do what is right and go on. They are not perfect but no one is when dealing with people. If they tolerated it and shoved it under the rug, then that would be a different thing.
-
Pastor, why would you be trying to change "a negative stance" if you do not really know what is going on at Anchor Academy? Being connected to Roloff Ministries IS NEGATIVE. Having a boy inappropriately "touched" by an employee IS NEGATIVE.
No one here on this formum created that negativity.
-
Regarding the accusation that they force you to get "saved." That is not even worth responding to. You don't force "salvation" on anyone. That has to come from the Lord.
Umm... pastor... ::waves his hand in the air wanting to be called on like in sunday school:: what about the Inquistion? What about spain? What about the English church? What about christian-like cults? what about parents putting pressure on their kids? What about being yelled at about how your a sinner by some man that is keeping you in the middle of no where agianst your will. And that you will go to hell if you dont do exactly what he says?
-
Desparate Dad is posting over at Struggling Teens asking about Anchor Academy. Those fine parents should be able to help: first a nice Wilderness program, then a long-term RTC. There you go Dad. That should help the boy!
-
Desperate Dad,
Be aware that all you'll find here is biased posters. Everyone here is against any type of program regardless of how helpful it is to the child. The disagree with punishment for one's actions and believe that no child should ever have to face consequences for his/her's actions. I tend to disagree with this as in the real world-we are punished for our actions. So I think you either fix the problem with a therapy/counselors, etc as you have or a program if you don't want your son to spend the rest of his life in and out of prison. Best of luck to you and your son. I personally know nothing about this particular program so I can be of little help in that aspect. But I just want to warn you of who you're asking for help here. I belive that your son can change his life around as long as he goes in there with an open mind and is co-operative. I also am a fellow Christian and believe a Christian atmosphere can be very beneficial to him. Best of luck. Just ignore all the blinded, mis-informed, and bias posters here--they have no idea what they are talking about, most have never even attended a program. I lived at a program (my father worked there) and ignorant people such as these have successfully managed to shut it down. I think it was a wonderful program which also provided their teens with a potential future through acedemics and sports. So beware of haters.
DAUGHTER
-
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 160#141046 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11972&forum=9&start=160#141046)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... tart=30&32 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12074&forum=9&start=30&32)
Look at the bias for yourselves :roll:
BTW, someone hear a cricket?This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.
--John Adams, U.S. President
-
Sounds like you are in the same position we are in with our 13 yr old son, here in Georgia. What to do? Deciding on an alternative place to live outside the family home is difficult. I know what you are going through, you/we have to explore and investigate where we send our child 'to live' - it's not like buying a house where we shop around diligently to find our perfect house, it requires much more from us.
I'm not too sure about some of these posters on this list. Appears there are a great many kids on this board, and from the fowl language I have read, I wonder who they kiss with their filthy mouth?
May I suggest you go to google and enter in quotes "Anchor Academy" and behind it enter cue search words.
God Bless,
Jody
-
Hi,
What does (CEDU) stand for?
Thank you,
Jody
-
I am sure that this is the place formy son....and will be taking him there nexyt week. I found a video clip on it at http://www.christiangiving.net (http://www.christiangiving.net). Click on the photo on the main page and it will take you to links to 4 charities....if you click the Anchor Academy button, it will take you to a place where you can watch the video. I agree with you about the people on this site....I don't pay much attention to most of the people here.....Good luck with your son...I will pray for him and you. (one of the things that helped me make my final decision was that one evening at home I received a call from Anchor regarding the upcoming arrival of my son...The person on the othre side of the call was a young man that had graduated from Anchor 4 years previously and came back to work during his vacations.
-
Dear Dad,
I have known of Lester Roloff for decades, and he was a Godly man. Here is his bio:
http://www.earnestlycontending.com/KT/b ... oloff.html (http://www.earnestlycontending.com/KT/bios/lesterroloff.html)
Long after we was dead, the abuse allegations were made. I know nothing about the validity of these allegations or what the outcome was. I didn't know his Anchor home moved to Mt.
I viewed the video at their site. My speakers are not hooked up so I could not hear but I was impressed by what I saw. I think it this world of "you owe me" this type of home may impose values the young men can take with them into their adult life.
I wish there was something like this school close to Georgia. Best of luck with your son and I pray God open his eyes and his heart.
Jody
-
Oh please. Give it a rest. Isn't there a board where christians can commisserate about the trials of finding 'alternative living' arrangements for their intolerable kids? That is just soooo godly. Were these kids born with the 'you owe me' attitude. No, someone modeled that for them. Wonder who?
I find your interpretation of and prejudices much more offensive than the 'foul' language. And I think Roloff was rabid and extremely 'foul'.
Why are either of you still here? Just curious?
-
"CEDU" is the name of a group of programs founded in the 1980s and finally closed early 2005. Long story why the closure. One program continued, and three or four others are restarting, all under new ownership. All reports say same philosophy will be followed as originally designed. "CEDU" derives, I recall, from "see" and "do", as in seeing/learning something (notably the behavior they presumably model/teach) and doing it. Whatever, it was not particularly followed in a clearly recognizable form, at least by 2004.
-
On 2005-11-16 22:59:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"I am sure that this is the place formy son....and will be taking him there nexyt week. I found a video clip on it at http://www.christiangiving.net (http://www.christiangiving.net). Click on the photo on the main page and it will take you to links to 4 charities....if you click the Anchor Academy button, it will take you to a place where you can watch the video.
I agree with you about the people on this site....I don't pay much attention to most of the people here.....Good luck with your son...I will pray for him and you. (one of the things that helped me make my final decision was that one evening at home I received a call from Anchor regarding the upcoming arrival of my son...The person on the othre side of the call was a young man that had graduated from Anchor 4 years previously and came back to work during his vacations. "
You two are so transparent, it isn't even funny.
You didn't come here for "the other side of the story", you came here to judge and preach. I'm not sure I believe you actually even have a kid, DD, but if he exists, and he's on his way to Anchor I will pray for him too.
I will pray that he can resist the repetitive indoctrination that will produce a vacant-eyed kid with a Gomer Pyle smile who doesn't dare "challenge authority". I pray that he might be the one to crack that place wide open and free the other prisoners as well.
I have questions about the video:
1. What is it about the kids "choice in music" that "led them down the wrong path"?
2. What is "character building"?
3. Why is "character building" only possible with mindless physical labor?
-
On 2005-11-16 22:33:00, jody wrote:
"Hi,
What does (CEDU) stand for?
Thank you,
Jody"
CEDU originally stood for Charles E. Diederich University. Diederich was the founder of Synanon, which, if you aren't familiar with, is a whole story unto itself. (But you can find lots of threads here which talk about it.) Basically, it was a cult. CEDU's founder, Mel Wasserman, used to be involved with them.
However, after the incident where two Synanon members put a rattlesnake in a lawyer's mailbox in an attempt to kill him, Mel changed the line to stating that CEDU stood for "See yourself as you are and Do something about it."
-
*sigh* :rofl:
And about struggling teens, well, Ill just repeat what Gin said - they allow NO CRITICISM, NO CRITICAL REVIEW! They basically only allow people to privately tell you how good it is and people to say they exist. There IS NO CHANCE FOR ANYTHING BAD TO COME OUT. Its nonsense. If something cant stand up to scrutiny or criticism, its NONSENSE, its got something to hide, its a bunch of bullshit. Unless, of course, they'd lead you to believe that "everyone is out to get them" :roll:
At any rate, it seems to show here that your kid is in dire need of growing up. You know how to let a kid grow up? I can say the last thing youd do is put him in some program where they go out of their way to make him a kid again. Being controlled, humiliated, living in an austere environemnt and having god and every transgression he's ever done (or a few made up ones) shoved down his throat wont make him grow up.
Hell, can you even tell us how this program is supposed to work? What it does? What it treats? All Ive ever heard is a bunch of vague NONSENSE about how you dont like where hes going and want him to put into some vague 'direction'
Take your paws off and let him grow up. Three Springs Waygookin can back me up here - giving him a job and responsibilities will go light years to help him 'grow up', but putting him into a program and getting skullfucked for jesus will NOT.
Screening pre-school kids for anti-social behavior is about as useful as screening the Christian Coalition for sanctimonious behavior.
Sanho Tree
[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-11-17 07:42 ]
-
this home is quite a ways from you, but they tour to georgia with their choir...and the cost is only $12,000 per year....a bargain and a blessing...good luck.
-
On 2005-11-17 09:43:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"this home is quite a ways from you, but they tour to georgia with their choir...and the cost is only $12,000 per year....a bargain and a blessing...good luck."
Shit, man, give me the $12,000 and I'll beat, starve, humiliate and break your kid. I'll even throw in a bonus beating for you.
Put on that Anchor-traz red shirt and I'll run over you like raging bull in the arena.
-
Give me some $$ and I'll show him a great time. ::deal::
-
On 2005-11-17 11:33:00, KarenInDallas wrote:
"Give me some $$ and I'll show him a great time. ::deal:: "
hey, karen. it's me, DJ. i should remind you: you never charged ME for your services...
-
Hey, Desperate Dad - why haven't you answered the questions?
-
I tend to agree with Handbasket. I believe Desperate Dad is a phony too. What father, who is actually seeking "help" for his son, would read the postings here about the boys who were abused so badly at Anchor, and the two other locations this BROHTER ran before opening this so-called "school" there; and the connection to Roloff---and THEN come back onto fornits a month-and-a-half later to "announce" that he is dropping his kid off at this gotta-be-abusive hell hole?
The entire posting episode from this "dad" just stinks.
And this "dad" was posting over on Struggling Teens too.
Maybe he thinks this is some form of advertising, or something.
Got news for him: all he did was make a lot of people aware of this place and its wrongdoings.
-
I never got any responses from anyone with FIRST-HAND knowledge of Anchor....so I stopped coming to this completely biased and ignorant forum....unless I received an e-mail response directly from someone here.....The only thing I have heard from anyone first hand are good results and thankful parents and changed teens. Good luck to you all.
-
what questions?
-
When did Struggling Teens make it so that people can post questions, but only get private replies? That blows. I also saw a post where Katfish put up a link to another website, but the administator took it down because it was anti-program. Parents trust this website? Do they enjoy their stupidity? Do they like to roll around in it and smear it on their faces?
-
Its been a good while since ST allowed questions on specific programs, but blocked all but private replies. That seems to avoid the board getting filled with "its bad period. don't bother to find real facts" and assorted bashing. But, I think it reasonable to look to more than one source too -- which is a contribution this board makes. No source is guaranteed tho.
-
On 2005-11-21 11:02:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"I never got any responses from anyone with FIRST-HAND knowledge of Anchor....so I stopped coming to this completely biased and ignorant forum....unless I received an e-mail response directly from someone here.....The only thing I have heard from anyone first hand are good results and thankful parents and changed teens. Good luck to you all."
Not exactly true. Biased, yes. Ignorant no. First hand knowledge of other programs is in abundance. Extrapolation is a valid and logical argument. If so many other programs are indeed harmful, then why trust this one?
-
Why trust this one when so many others are harmful? Well, let's take this to another topic....Well, we hear about sooo many bad and hurtful people from the Middle East, then they must all be bad and untrustworthy. What about Catholic priests...we hear about all the bad ones in the news......I guess they must all be bad and hurtful.....and what about bad parents...they aer all over the news....rarely do we hear about the good ones...they must ALL be bad....and I say again...ignorant forum...to use a very limited amount of experience without taking in the whole number and extrapolating out to get resultss is anything but good science....I think they call it a flawed control group....
-
On 2005-11-21 18:27:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"Why trust this one when so many others are harmful? Well, let's take this to another topic....Well, we hear about sooo many bad and hurtful people from the Middle East, then they must all be bad and untrustworthy. What about Catholic priests...we hear about all the bad ones in the news......I guess they must all be bad and hurtful.....and what about bad parents...they aer all over the news....rarely do we hear about the good ones...they must ALL be bad....and I say again...ignorant forum...to use a very limited amount of experience without taking in the whole number and extrapolating out to get resultss is anything but good science....I think they call it a flawed control group...."
You will make a great programmie.
::fuckoff::
-
On 2005-11-21 18:27:00, Desparate Dad wrote:
"Why trust this one when so many others are harmful? Well, let's take this to another topic....Well, we hear about sooo many bad and hurtful people from the Middle East, then they must all be bad and untrustworthy. What about Catholic priests...we hear about all the bad ones in the news......I guess they must all be bad and hurtful.....and what about bad parents...they aer all over the news....rarely do we hear about the good ones...they must ALL be bad....and I say again...ignorant forum...to use a very limited amount of experience without taking in the whole number and extrapolating out to get resultss is anything but good science....I think they call it a flawed control group...."
By the same reasoning one could say that just because herion is bad for you doesn't mean all illegal drugs are bad for you? Or are you purposely being silly?
The experience level here is anything but limited. As for ignorant, those on this forum have obviously done extensive research and delved into the issue from many sources, not the least of which, includes first hand accounts of former staff, parents and clients. A picture has been painted here which condemns an entire industry because the unethical methods these programs use are clearly universal through-out the industry. If you have found one 'good' program it is in the minority.
Okay, fine. You are the one taking the risk. Or more accurately, exposing your child to the risk. As for me, based on this flawed control group's hundreds of horror stories, the negative news articles, and the negative exposes, from reputable news outlets, I would never take this chance with my child. There is no way I would ever place my child in a facility where he cannot contact me at will or call 911 if he needs to.
Even if there were no credible evidence or alarming stories about these programs, I would never send my child to one. I find their methods morally abhorent. I don't need any third party to tell me that. I came to that conclusion simply by readng the industry's own websites; long before finding Fornit's.
That is how I came to be here. I was searching the Internet for information on Outward Bound like programs (I attended one as a kid) and came across the sites for Turn-about Ranch and Redcliff and was appalled at their harsh methods. I decided to dig deeper and found this site among many others. As a middle aged man, I had sincerely thought that the tough love approach had been thoroughly discredited long ago and was now rightfully extinct. How wrong I was.
-
AtomicAnt, I'm with you. I am more than middle-aged, and found my way to this forum after a child I knew well was sent to a program. The intitial horror at finding that these places existed at all, was overwhelming. The first red flag to any rational person should be the secrecy and isolation under which these places operate. That, coupled with the remote locations, in states with no child protective laws, should send parents running the other way. And don't tell me all these parents have tried everything and a program was their last resort, because the child I know had no traditional intervention before being sent away. Had a professional been involved, it would have surely been discovered that it was not the child who needed help, but the parents. Perhaps this is the reason so many parents chose the program, it's easier to blame everything on a child than to admit that the whole family is a mess.
-
God help the program children. :cry:
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Matthew 5:5
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
-
How do you know there was no intervention? Could be the family just chose not to tell you how difficult things were and how they were dealing with it. Not everyone takes out an ad when their family is in crisis and counseling.
-
On 2005-11-22 08:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"AtomicAnt, I'm with you. I am more than middle-aged, and found my way to this forum after a child I knew well was sent to a program. The intitial horror at finding that these places existed at all, was overwhelming. The first red flag to any rational person should be the secrecy and isolation under which these places operate. That, coupled with the remote locations, in states with no child protective laws, should send parents running the other way. And don't tell me all these parents have tried everything and a program was their last resort, because the child I know had no traditional intervention before being sent away. Had a professional been involved, it would have surely been discovered that it was not the child who needed help, but the parents. Perhaps this is the reason so many parents chose the program, it's easier to blame everything on a child than to admit that the whole family is a mess. "
Hi Katherine! :wave:
-
If I am who you think I am then you know the whole story...others will just have to trust that I know the child and the family situation intimately. If they do not believe me, too bad. All I am hoping for is that some frustrated prospective program parents will read this forum and resist the temptation to absolve themselves of the responsiblity of parenting, by sending their child away to be raised by strangers. I want them to know that these surrogates they entrust their babies to, are even less competent than they are and it's time they admitted the truth and looked for help within their local mental health system. Most of these people have insurance that would pay a substantial amount toward counseling, and HELLO, 100K per year would pay for a lot of tutors, a local private school, and probably a 24/7 babysitter/bodyguard, if that's what they really think is necessary. Ironically, the parents involved in the subject case, both turned out to be successful, amazingly after being normal teens. I can only speak for one of them, who I know for a fact, tried drugs, sex and alcohol as a teen, but in spite of it all, managed to finish college and become a productive adult. All I can say to the parents out there, don't expect your kids to be different that you were! Stop punishing them for being normal, get to know them, and accept them for the amazing people they are!!!!
-
You say you know the details intimately. Did you live with them? Were you there 24/7? Did you know their daily schedule and planner? Their every coming and going? Every appointment? Are you certain those dental apointments, doctor appointments, family outings weren't counseling appointments? Or...is it possible the version you believe was given to you by the child? Not that is always wrong to believe the child, but remember....there are always two sides to every story. And if the parents did use, and drink and have sex, maybe they would like something better for their child. Maybe they would like to see their children not have to make the same mistakes they did. Just because it is what most kids do, doesn't make it the right thing to do. So, unless you were the perverbial fly on the wall at all times in the home. Quit judging the actions of these parents. Instead, find out how you can help. Support their efforts to protect their child and family. Work with them, not against them.
-
You say you know the details intimately. Did you live with them? Were you there 24/7? Did you know their daily schedule and planner? Their every coming and going? Every appointment? Are you certain those dental apointments, doctor appointments, family outings weren't counseling appointments? Or...is it possible the version you believe was given to you by the child? Not that is always wrong to believe the child, but remember....there are always two sides to every story. And if the parents did use, and drink and have sex, maybe they would like something better for their child. Maybe they would like to see their children not have to make the same mistakes they did. Just because it is what most kids do, doesn't make it the right thing to do. So, unless you were the perverbial fly on the wall at all times in the home. Quit judging the actions of these parents. Instead, find out how you can help. Support their efforts to protect their child and family. Work with them, not against them.
-
And you need to go back to your program!