Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 04, 2005, 09:22:00 PM
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What good is a constutition if it is not enforced?[/i]
Amendment V - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI - Right to speedy trial, confrontation of witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Amendment VII - Trial by jury in civil cases. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII - Cruel and Unusual punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Does the constitution not apply to those under 18 years of age? Aparently it does not.
What gives parents the right to sentence their child to years in prison without a crime being committed, without a trial and without representation? Had a crime been committed, the proper authorities would intervene and the legal process would begin. With these programs, they call kidnappers to take the child away to never be heard from again, for YEARS. (if ever)
This downright sickens me. This goes against all the values this country of ours is supposed to hold so dear. Yet those in power are closely involved with these cults, at very least their money is.
So, I am calling bullshit. I say it's a sham. Aparently the consitution DOES NOT apply to all citizens of this country.
Why don't program prisoners have access to a phone? EVER!?
People sitting on death row have ten times the freedom we did. They had the right to a lawyer, appeals and communication with the world.
We had nothing.
When a staff or upper-level decided to rough up the younger kids to 'let off steam' what were we supposed to do. Why couldn't we call 911 to report this abuse? Were we really non-citizens?
The only equivilent I can think of is the case of where 'ghost detinees' from the war on terror were flown in private jets out of country to egypt, syria, etc.. and tortured for information. This is what is happening to teens, RIGHT NOW, in AMERICA!
Where is the outrage?
Where is the justice?
It seems there is none.
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I agree. It was written by slave owning forked-tongue freemasonary. That's a very very destructive cult that freemasonary. Check out Wes Fager's portfolio. He's one of them.
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
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It's also an out-dated ocument. Lincoln was even a white supremist. Why do you think he got shot? He didn't give thoseslaves shit except a harder road with the GOP.
Vain are the thousand creeds that move men's hearts, unutterably vain, worthless as wither'd weeds.
--Emily Bronte
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On 2005-10-04 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What good is a constutition if it is not enforced?[/i]
Amendment V - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI - Right to speedy trial, confrontation of witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Amendment VII - Trial by jury in civil cases. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII - Cruel and Unusual punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Does the constitution not apply to those under 18 years of age? Aparently it does not.
What gives parents the right to sentence their child to years in prison without a crime being committed, without a trial and without representation? Had a crime been committed, the proper authorities would intervene and the legal process would begin. With these programs, they call kidnappers to take the child away to never be heard from again, for YEARS. (if ever)
This downright sickens me. This goes against all the values this country of ours is supposed to hold so dear. Yet those in power are closely involved with these cults, at very least their money is.
So, I am calling bullshit. I say it's a sham. Aparently the consitution DOES NOT apply to all citizens of this country.
Why don't program prisoners have access to a phone? EVER!?
People sitting on death row have ten times the freedom we did. They had the right to a lawyer, appeals and communication with the world.
We had nothing.
When a staff or upper-level decided to rough up the younger kids to 'let off steam' what were we supposed to do. Why couldn't we call 911 to report this abuse? Were we really non-citizens?
The only equivilent I can think of is the case of where 'ghost detinees' from the war on terror were flown in private jets out of country to egypt, syria, etc.. and tortured for information. This is what is happening to teens, RIGHT NOW, in AMERICA!
Where is the outrage?
Where is the justice?
It seems there is none."
NO.The constitution does not apply to those under 18.
In America your parents are responsible for you until you are an adult.
Your parents have a RIGHT to make their own household rules unless they are breaking the law.
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Many laws are broken in these programs. This has been said before but is so true: if you were to treat your animal like the children in these facilities you would be locked up.
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NO.The constitution does not apply to those under 18.
In America your parents are responsible for you until you are an adult.
Your parents have a RIGHT to make their own household rules unless they are breaking the law."
Assuming you're not a troll - where did you get these "facts"?
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On 2005-10-04 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What good is a constutition if it is not enforced?[/i]
Amendment V - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI - Right to speedy trial, confrontation of witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Amendment VII - Trial by jury in civil cases. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII - Cruel and Unusual punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Does the constitution not apply to those under 18 years of age? Aparently it does not.
What gives parents the right to sentence their child to years in prison without a crime being committed, without a trial and without representation? Had a crime been committed, the proper authorities would intervene and the legal process would begin. With these programs, they call kidnappers to take the child away to never be heard from again, for YEARS. (if ever)
This downright sickens me. This goes against all the values this country of ours is supposed to hold so dear. Yet those in power are closely involved with these cults, at very least their money is.
So, I am calling bullshit. I say it's a sham. Aparently the consitution DOES NOT apply to all citizens of this country.
Why don't program prisoners have access to a phone? EVER!?
People sitting on death row have ten times the freedom we did. They had the right to a lawyer, appeals and communication with the world.
We had nothing.
When a staff or upper-level decided to rough up the younger kids to 'let off steam' what were we supposed to do. Why couldn't we call 911 to report this abuse? Were we really non-citizens?
The only equivilent I can think of is the case of where 'ghost detinees' from the war on terror were flown in private jets out of country to egypt, syria, etc.. and tortured for information. This is what is happening to teens, RIGHT NOW, in AMERICA!
Where is the outrage?
Where is the justice?
It seems there is none."
Geez, this diatribe is so noble I can hear the National Anthem playing, although the effect is somewhat dampened by my gagging. Programs aren't prisons. It's not about sentencing or punishing. The idea is recovery, and giving kids a shot at avoiding prison.
Were you treated like a prisoner? Were you abused? Get off your computer and go see a lawyer. A more effective approach than this drama-rama might be reporting it as such and pressing charges.
And clearly, you're being heard from. I've worked with enough programs to know most of them give phone privileges after a certain length of time, or after the child reaches a certain goal.
The only thing you got right was the way real detainees and prisoners were treated (are being treated?) by the federal government. I imagine they would be sickened by such a ridiculous comparison of your experience--unpleasant as it was--to theirs.
::crybaby::
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Geez, this diatribe is so noble I can hear the National Anthem playing, although the effect is somewhat dampened by my gagging. Programs aren't prisons. It's not about sentencing or punishing. The idea is recovery, and giving kids a shot at avoiding prison.
Riiiight... these kids suffer from a Program Deficiency that if left untreated would lead them to being deadinsaneinjail.
Were you treated like a prisoner? Were you abused? Get off your computer and go see a lawyer. A more effective approach than this drama-rama might be reporting it as such and pressing charges.
Where have you been? Tons of suits have been filed, and a couple are in the works right now.
Ya know - I love this attitude that once someone writes their opinion on a forum, that the person has no life, and sits in front of a screen all day engrossed in "dramarama". :roll:
You posted here - maybe the same can be said for you?
And clearly, you're being heard from. I've worked with enough programs...
THATS obvious! :lol:
... to know most of them give phone privileges after a certain length of time, or after the child reaches a certain goal.
So, you have to earn the right to report abuse, is that it?
The only thing you got right was the way real detainees and prisoners were treated (are being treated?) by the federal government. I imagine they would be sickened by such a ridiculous comparison of your experience--unpleasant as it was--to theirs.
Lets see... gang mentality, humilation, rape, other sexual exploitation....
Some of these programs have it all going on.
Why don't you find the kid in this artcle and tell him what a whiner he is?
http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2004- ... ature.html (http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2004-12-09/news/feature.html)
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I've worked with enough programs
enough said! LOL :lol:
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Hey, StaffPerson - is it true that mentally ill people have no constitutional rights either, since they have people with Powers of Attorney that make decisions for them?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=D#137688 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12075&forum=22&Sort=D#137688)
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On 2005-10-05 06:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-04 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What good is a constutition if it is not enforced?[/i]
Amendment V - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI - Right to speedy trial, confrontation of witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Amendment VII - Trial by jury in civil cases. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII - Cruel and Unusual punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Does the constitution not apply to those under 18 years of age? Aparently it does not.
What gives parents the right to sentence their child to years in prison without a crime being committed, without a trial and without representation? Had a crime been committed, the proper authorities would intervene and the legal process would begin. With these programs, they call kidnappers to take the child away to never be heard from again, for YEARS. (if ever)
This downright sickens me. This goes against all the values this country of ours is supposed to hold so dear. Yet those in power are closely involved with these cults, at very least their money is.
So, I am calling bullshit. I say it's a sham. Aparently the consitution DOES NOT apply to all citizens of this country.
Why don't program prisoners have access to a phone? EVER!?
People sitting on death row have ten times the freedom we did. They had the right to a lawyer, appeals and communication with the world.
We had nothing.
When a staff or upper-level decided to rough up the younger kids to 'let off steam' what were we supposed to do. Why couldn't we call 911 to report this abuse? Were we really non-citizens?
The only equivilent I can think of is the case of where 'ghost detinees' from the war on terror were flown in private jets out of country to egypt, syria, etc.. and tortured for information. This is what is happening to teens, RIGHT NOW, in AMERICA!
Where is the outrage?
Where is the justice?
It seems there is none."
Geez, this diatribe is so noble I can hear the National Anthem playing, although the effect is somewhat dampened by my gagging. Programs aren't prisons. It's not about sentencing or punishing. The idea is recovery, and giving kids a shot at avoiding prison.
Were you treated like a prisoner? Were you abused? Get off your computer and go see a lawyer. A more effective approach than this drama-rama might be reporting it as such and pressing charges.
And clearly, you're being heard from. I've worked with enough programs to know most of them give phone privileges after a certain length of time, or after the child reaches a certain goal.
The only thing you got right was the way real detainees and prisoners were treated (are being treated?) by the federal government. I imagine they would be sickened by such a ridiculous comparison of your experience--unpleasant as it was--to theirs.
::crybaby:: "
Thanks for reading the post first of all. I am especially excited this site draws ex-staff members. Sometimes I think we are all just preaching to the choir. I am curious why you come here in the first place, a program survivor's forum? Are you still employed by a program? Do you miss the power and satisfaction of being in control of teens and try to compensate online? I am just trying to understand your motives. It's funny, because I know with 100% certainty of what happened. And to answer your inquiry, yes I did contact many officials when I got out of my program. And I continue to do so. It's funny you assume so much...
I know for fact you are talking from ignorance, you obviously haven't been through a difficult program (as a prisoner). I forgive you for your ignorance and anger, I doubt you will undertsand how much damage the industry you are involved with does to teens in the long term.
I'm sure you will now respond telling me how this post made you gag, and how I am wrong, and stupid, etc... and whatever else you can throw at me. Don't worry, I have a thick skin. But I am just glad you read this. It's great we get the attention of ex-staff here. Even if they are just trolls. There must be a reason why you are here, while most of society simply discounts what we say. But I think we know why you are here.. and that reason is sad. But, thank you for listening, even with your rude remarks!
Funny thing is, I've never met anyone willing to defend a program in person... go figure.
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On 2005-10-05 06:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Geez, this diatribe is so noble I can hear the National Anthem playing, although the effect is somewhat dampened by my gagging. Programs aren't prisons. It's not about sentencing or punishing. The idea is recovery, and giving kids a shot at avoiding prison.
Were you treated like a prisoner? Were you abused? Get off your computer and go see a lawyer. A more effective approach than this drama-rama might be reporting it as such and pressing charges.
And clearly, you're being heard from. I've worked with enough programs to know most of them give phone privileges after a certain length of time, or after the child reaches a certain goal.
The only thing you got right was the way real detainees and prisoners were treated (are being treated?) by the federal government. I imagine they would be sickened by such a ridiculous comparison of your experience--unpleasant as it was--to theirs.
::crybaby:: "
Sure thing Ottawa. :rofl:
Before you feed a troll, realize it's probably Ottawa or bitch assistant Ottawa.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=11#59078 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6415&forum=11#59078)
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WWASP prisons in foreign countries that have been closed
CASA by the SEA (mexico): CLOSED
Sunrise Beach (mexico): CLOSED
High Impact (mexico): CLOSED
Dundee Ranch Academy (costa rica): CLOSED
Program in Samoa: CLOSED
Program in Czech republic: CLOSED
Other countries seem to get it, why doesn't America get it?
Freedom, constitution... it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. Until you realize your government does SHIT to protect children from these fundamentalist FREAK child abusers.
And while Time acknowledged that WWASP had one program shut down in Mexico for abuse, the magazine failed to mention that WWASP has had at least five affiliates closed following reports of abuse and human rights violations. The Mexican government alone raided and closed three WWASP programs: Sunrise Beach, High Impact and Casa by The Sea.
At High Impact, police took video of teens housed outdoors in dog cages, which later aired on Inside Edition. The Costa Rican government shut Dundee Ranch Academy, reporting human rights violations. One official there told the media that "In Costa Rica, we don't even allow that kind of punishment for our prison inmates," citing the use of isolation rooms in which teens were made to kneel for hours.
The U.S. State Department documented abuse at WWASP's Samoa facility, which closed following an investigation by the Samoan government. The Czech Republic also raided a WWASP facility there and documented abuse. Brightway Hospital, which WWASP ran in Utah, was closed after the state found licensing violations like failure to report abuse allegations. Congressman George Miller (D-California) has at least twice called on Attorney General John Ashcroft to investigate the program.
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Is this forum limited to "survivors" ?
is this issue limited to "ex-staff"?
"This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk."
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It's good to see you addressing the least relevant points of a post again. Typical programmie.
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REMOVE THE <"BR"> TAGS FROM THE MASSIVE QUOTES, PLEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:oops: jeeze guys, forum 101 here. Dont make a post so long that I get flustered from it, ok? LOL.We long for homes we can never have as long as we have institutions like school, television, corporation, and government in loco parentis.
John Taylor Gatto
[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-10-05 18:09 ]
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(http://http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/18722368/952169)
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On 2005-10-05 18:09:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"REMOVE THE <"BR"> TAGS FROM THE MASSIVE QUOTES, PLEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:oops: jeeze guys, forum 101 here. Dont make a post so long that I get flustered from it, ok? LOL.We long for homes we can never have as long as we have institutions like school, television, corporation, and government in loco parentis.
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"This sysyem may not be perfect,but its the best one in the world"RUBBISH!!!
The ONLY good thing about the USA is that the passport is welcome just about anywhere,EVEN IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES.
Oh,I forgot,MOST Americans are too stupid to get a passport!
There are millions who would give their left nut/tit for a USA passport and YOU dont even bother to get one yourself.
Stupid Americans!
You still believe that the USA is the "best" thing going.
Just because China is a dictatorship does not mean the people there are any less happy that you.
You are American and you have the freedom to go just about anywhere on the planet.You should take advantage of that and go see just how good life CAN be outside of the USA.You can always return to the USA if you dont like it.