Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 04, 2005, 10:41:00 AM
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I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?
Just rumors?
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On 2005-10-04 07:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?
Just rumors?"
You're confusing between two different WWASP facilities. Paradise Cove, in Samoa, was where a kid's head was wrapped in duct tape. The open sewer and the suicide happened at Tranquility Bay, WWASP's facility in Jamaica.
Paradise Cove shut down a few years ago. Tranquility Bay is still operating.
These are not just rumors, BTW-- these are real incidents which have been repeated in many survivors' statements and newspaper articles.
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duct tape? yes. making them lie face down in the sand all day, only in extreme cases. the worst i ever saw was this kid who was a level 3 and flipped out one day. i remember him talking back to one of the samoan fathers, and they tackled him in the sand, dragged him to a small fale, and taped him to a table. they didnt let us on that half of the beach for the next few days, but i remember getting within site one day, and he was yelling at them, so they sprayed him with mortein. (australia's brand of aerosol bug killer) that was the worst i ever saw.
duct tape happened but only if there was no other way. i was in isolation many times; i never got duct taped.
On 2005-10-04 07:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?
Just rumors?"
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duct tape happened but only if there was no other way.
Bullshit. WWASP and their supporters always love to say that there was "no other way". Truth is, their uneducated, power-hungry staff are always happy to put children through hell for even the most minor infractions... in all the survivors' statements I've read, from many different WWASP facility, I have never heard of even a single case in which staff tried to work things out peacefully before "restraining" the prisoners, sending them to "worksheets", or to solitary confinement.
For a list of all the "consequences", see a Parents Manual for any WWASP facility. Keep in mind that any cat-3, cat-4, and cat-5 offense gets you sent to solitary confinement (known in Paradise Cove as iso, in Casa as R&R, in Spring Creek Lodge as the Hobbit, and in Tranquility Bay as OP), and that staff often make up rules and offenses as they go along. Many former prisoners report that looking out a window, or trying to collect the phone numbers/addresses/other personal info of people in your group (so you could stay in touch when you're back in the free world) were both considered "run plans"
Keep in mind that these people don't even need to make up a reason to abuse children in this way. They are accountable to no one.
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i remember him talking back to one of the samoan fathers
duct tape happened but only if there was no other way
Wow, talking back. That kid was out of control! What else can you do? :roll:
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On 2005-10-04 16:35:00, Bola wrote:
"duct tape? yes. making them lie face down in the sand all day, only in extreme cases. the worst i ever saw was this kid who was a level 3 and flipped out one day. i remember him talking back to one of the samoan fathers, and they tackled him in the sand, dragged him to a small fale, and taped him to a table. they didnt let us on that half of the beach for the next few days, but i remember getting within site one day, and he was yelling at them, so they sprayed him with mortein. (australia's brand of aerosol bug killer) that was the worst i ever saw.
duct tape happened but only if there was no other way. i was in isolation many times; i never got duct taped.
On 2005-10-04 07:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I heard some fucked up shit about Samoa...is it true? They duct tape kid's mouths shut? Make them lie face down in the sand all day? Had an open sewer system next to the showers? A girl actually killed herself and the staff just wiped it up with student's towels and then made the kids go wash them?
Just rumors?"
"
Whoa, wait a minute here. He was isolated and restrained for several days and sprayed with POISON? WTF is up with that? Also, if you were allowed to actually see a kid being sprayed with poison, what went on that you didn't see?
THAT IS FUCKED UP BEYOND BELIEF.
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"Bullshit. WWASP and their supporters always love to say that there was "no other way"."
hey i was there for 2 years, no one ever duct taped me. what would you suggest the samoans do with kids who disrespect them? if you knew anything about samoan culture, this wouldn't be so shocking. in america, we are taught that all hitting is abuse. in samoan culture, they are very physical. they are the most loving, and fun to be around, group of people. if you arent an asshole, and respect them, they are your best friend. a lot of what people are calling abuse, wasnt part of the "program" it was because somebody disrespected a 350 pound samoan guy. not a smart idea, in or out of the program.
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On 2005-10-05 06:42:00, Bola wrote:
""Bullshit. WWASP and their supporters always love to say that there was "no other way"."
hey i was there for 2 years, no one ever duct taped me. what would you suggest the samoans do with kids who disrespect them? if you knew anything about samoan culture, this wouldn't be so shocking. in america, we are taught that all hitting is abuse. in samoan culture, they are very physical. they are the most loving, and fun to be around, group of people. if you arent an asshole, and respect them, they are your best friend. a lot of what people are calling abuse, wasnt part of the "program" it was because somebody disrespected a 350 pound samoan guy. not a smart idea, in or out of the program. "
Those kids who were at Paradise Cove were NOT Samoan. The people who managed PC weren't Samoan either. These kids were sent there to get help. No matter how you spin it, what went on over there is considered abuse in America. And since these are American children, incarcerated at an American institution, they should expect American standards of care.
There's an American school in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, for the children of American military and civilians working in SA. Saudi law permits public whipping, public executions, and maiming people for minor offenses. Does that mean those American kids should be getting their hands cut off for stealing? Hey, after all, Saudi culture is very physical, and that's what the law says. :roll:
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There is no excuse for abuse. Female circumcision in Africa is also part of the local culture, but that doesn't make it right. There is no excuse for the way kids are treated in these programs. It is criminal and wrong.
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Female circumcision is part of the culture in certain African countries, but that doesn't make it right. What happened at Paradise Cove-- and continues to happen in the WWASP facilities that are still operating-- was and is criminal and wrong, and there's no excuse for such treatment of children.
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"Female circumcision is part of the culture in certain African countries, but that doesn't make it right."
a tackle and a punch, or even duct tape is not permanent. circumcision is. i never once saw a person severely or permanently injured. about the saudi school, good point. we were in an american school, but we were on a samoan family's land. if you start talking shit about a samoan guy's mom, in an adolescent attempt at getting a rise out the samoan guy, you can expect to get dropped. in all reality, the samoans were a lot nicer than american cops. take it from a guy who has dealt with both.
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The guy who ran Paradise Cove runs MIDWEST ACADEMY now. Same program, just a different wrapper.
And the beat goes on ...
:smokin:
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On 2005-10-05 16:22:00, Bola wrote:
""Female circumcision is part of the culture in certain African countries, but that doesn't make it right."
a tackle and a punch, or even duct tape is not permanent. circumcision is. i never once saw a person severely or permanently injured. about the saudi school, good point. we were in an american school, but we were on a samoan family's land. if you start talking shit about a samoan guy's mom, in an adolescent attempt at getting a rise out the samoan guy, you can expect to get dropped. in all reality, the samoans were a lot nicer than american cops. take it from a guy who has dealt with both."
And the scars (both physical and psychological) these kids got from what was done to them by WWASP are also permanent. But it doesn't matter if it's permanent or not. The point is that it's abuse. And abuse is wrong. There is no excuse for that.
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Ok, I know some Samoans, and yes, that is how they do things. If their kid (and I stress THEIR kid) gets out of line like that, they're in for some physical repercussions.
But what Samoans do in their personal lives is one thing; I certainly wouldn't duct tape my kid's mouth shut or spray him with bug repellent in any situation, but if a Samoan wants to do that, I'll leave that for whatever non-existent 'DSS' there is in Samoa. How they treat kids who are NOT their children and are their responsibility in a residential treatment is a completely different thing.
When I heard those rumors I felt queasy; now that I've heard them confirmed, I'm outright disgusted. I don't care what your excuse is - a student called your wife a nasty slut or whatever - there is never a time that a kid deserves to be abused like that.
I feel terrible for students that endured a place like this. I definitely agree that the emotional scars of even WITNESSING something like that are pretty permanent.
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What's getting lost in the sauce here is that WWASPS trains kids to control other kids, which is abuse, in and of itself.
The hunted becomes the hunter.
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On 2005-10-06 01:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What's getting lost in the sauce here is that WWASPS trains kids to control other kids, which is abuse, in and of itself.
The hunted becomes the hunter."
Or should I say, the preyed upon become the predator (parents who profit from referring/recruting new inductees).
:smokin:
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On 2005-10-06 01:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What's getting lost in the sauce here is that WWASPS trains kids to control other kids, which is abuse, in and of itself.
The hunted becomes the hunter."
Not true, that's all. :wave:
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On 2005-10-06 07:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-10-06 01:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What's getting lost in the sauce here is that WWASPS trains kids to control other kids, which is abuse, in and of itself.
The hunted becomes the hunter."
Not true, that's all. :wave: "
Of course it's true. Kids who progress in the program and become upper level work as unpaid "Junior Staff". As Junior Staff, they have the power to discipline lower level prisoners, and they often take out their frustraion and anger over what was done to them on the lower level kids. Upper levels kids are free to consequence lower level kids in any way they choose, and can very well make those kids' lives a living hell if they want to.
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Yeah of course its true. I remember some of those fucking pansie 15 year old junior staff who thought they ruled the world. The fucking goody two shoes who ended up there usually would make jr staff pretty fast, their a bunch of fucking twinks is why. At least some of them. I was older than most of them,m and bigger and dared them to fuck with me. I had nothing to lose I would of beat the shit out of them and they knew it. The good thing about being older than the other kids is you know you can get out and not have to do shit. Jr. staff is just more mind games, and turns the kid into a sadistic abuser sometimes just like staff are. Even though a lot were cool and just getting through the program-- the anal ones who took their anger out on younger kids with taking points and shit was totally un called for. I think the word I am looking for is... TOOL. They were tools of an abusive and corrupt system. I can give em shit becaue I stayed on the lower levels for my entire stay until I took my exit plan. No way I was sucking cock to be a jr. staff -- fuck those fags.
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"Of course it's true. Kids who progress in the program and become upper level work as unpaid "Junior Staff". As Junior Staff, they have the power to discipline lower level prisoners, and they often take out their frustraion and anger over what was done to them on the lower level kids. Upper levels kids are free to consequence lower level kids in any way they choose, and can very well make those kids' lives a living hell if they want to."
Free to consequence in any way they choose? Be honest here; they can refer only consequences CAT 1 and 2, and the result is just a loss of points. I guess that's what "living hell" consists of for you, but it's a little over the top for the rest of the world. And remember, there are always staff there, so it's not like there's some epidemic of junior staff coming up with imaginary violations. And how do you become junior staff? The other students vote to support you or not.
Share about your unsuccessful time at a program if you must, but try to be honest about those who do choose to succeed.
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That's a good point.
So what were CAT 1 and 2? And what were points?
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On 2005-10-06 12:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Of course it's true. Kids who progress in the program and become upper level work as unpaid "Junior Staff". As Junior Staff, they have the power to discipline lower level prisoners, and they often take out their frustraion and anger over what was done to them on the lower level kids. Upper levels kids are free to consequence lower level kids in any way they choose, and can very well make those kids' lives a living hell if they want to."
Free to consequence in any way they choose? Be honest here; they can refer only consequences CAT 1 and 2, and the result is just a loss of points. I guess that's what "living hell" consists of for you, but it's a little over the top for the rest of the world. And remember, there are always staff there, so it's not like there's some epidemic of junior staff coming up with imaginary violations. And how do you become junior staff? The other students vote to support you or not.
Share about your unsuccessful time at a program if you must, but try to be honest about those who do choose to succeed. "
You must be a program parent. Anyone who was there knows just how much power the Junior Staffers have. You spew the official party line, and you expect us to eat it up just like you did, and still do. Ain't gonna happen.
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On 2005-10-06 12:48:00, providence wrote:
"That's a good point.
So what were CAT 1 and 2? And what were points? "
You can read about the "consequences" in the parents manuals here:
http://home.triad.rr.com/wwasp/ (http://home.triad.rr.com/wwasp/)
Take into consideration, though, that everything in these manuals was designed to get the parents to keep their child in the program. The consequences given to the prisoners are often more severe than what is written in that table. Cat-3, Cat-4, and Cat-5 offenses get you to OP; that's where you lie on your face for weeks. Cat-1 and Cat-2 often get you to worksheets-- I've heard of kids who spent weeks there, too. Staff will often make up new offenses and unofficial rules-- like, looking out the window being considered "run plans", and therefor, a Cat-5.
The staff that works at WWASP's gulags-- and WWASP/S itself-- are accountable to no one. They have total control over these kids. The kids also have no way of telling their families about what's happening, because WWASPS severaly restircts the communication between the families and the prisoners (no visits until the kid is "well baked", no phone calls until Level 3), and convinced the parents that any criticism of the program is "manipulation". Not to mention the Lifespring seminars, which are the core of the WWASPS cult, and which turn the parents against their kids for good.
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Those seminars...I don't know what I'd do if I met the person who created those. I'll never get my parents back from those...
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On 2005-10-06 12:48:00, providence wrote:
"That's a good point.
So what were CAT 1 and 2? And what were points? "
CAT means Category. Category 1 and 2--things like swearing, being rude, etc. More serious consequences--the ones only staff can give--would be things like hitting someone, cheating in school, etc. There's also a grievance process, in which kids can explain their side and get consequences reduced or taken away.
Points are accumulated to mark a kid's progress. They get points for school every day, points for keeping their area clean, doing stuff to help other students. Eventually, they have enough to "vote up" to the next level. They go to a meeting with all the other kids, stand up and say why they think they should move up a level, and anyone who doesn't agree has to stand up and explain their reasons.
Some programs start kids with 0 points, some give them some to start off, so they have something to work with. It's pretty straightforward: did you gain or lose points today? What worked? What didn't? (Pardon the program speak here; I think it expresses the thing nicely).
Each level you get more privileges, but the real jump is from 3 to 4, where the look of the whole thing changes. For Level 4's it's really more like a regular boarding school: Trips on weekends, movies, make-up, music, dances, activities. They also have more responsibility, and they expect those kids to mentor and coach (NOT control) the lower-level kids. In the real world, they call that peer tutoring. Here on Fornits, it's called mind control. :roll:
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On 2005-10-06 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Those seminars...I don't know what I'd do if I met the person who created those. I'll never get my parents back from those..."
David Gilcrease
(http://http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/SpringCreekDropout/83dc3ddf.jpg)
http://www.resourcerealizations.com/ (http://www.resourcerealizations.com/)
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On 2005-10-06 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-10-06 12:48:00, providence wrote:
"That's a good point.
So what were CAT 1 and 2? And what were points? "
CAT means Category. Category 1 and 2--things like swearing, being rude, etc. More serious consequences--the ones only staff can give--would be things like hitting someone, cheating in school, etc. There's also a grievance process, in which kids can explain their side and get consequences reduced or taken away.
Points are accumulated to mark a kid's progress. They get points for school every day, points for keeping their area clean, doing stuff to help other students. Eventually, they have enough to "vote up" to the next level. They go to a meeting with all the other kids, stand up and say why they think they should move up a level, and anyone who doesn't agree has to stand up and explain their reasons.
Some programs start kids with 0 points, some give them some to start off, so they have something to work with. It's pretty straightforward: did you gain or lose points today? What worked? What didn't? (Pardon the program speak here; I think it expresses the thing nicely).
Each level you get more privileges, but the real jump is from 3 to 4, where the look of the whole thing changes. For Level 4's it's really more like a regular boarding school: Trips on weekends, movies, make-up, music, dances, activities. They also have more responsibility, and they expect those kids to mentor and coach (NOT control) the lower-level kids. In the real world, they call that peer tutoring. Here on Fornits, it's called mind control. :roll: "
You are completely insane. You spell it out just like the program does to parents, as if it's just step 1, 2, 3, and wala your teen is fixed. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the reality is absolutely nothing like you describe. It's obvious you are a program parent, desperate to convince yourself you made the right choice. Guess what? You didn't.
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so i just wanna say in my defense, that i never said these kids DESERVED ABUSE! all im saying is dont go to someone else's country and talk shit to someone 3 times your size. by the way, brian vaifanua is samoan.
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"You are completely insane. You spell it out just like the program does to parents, as if it's just step 1, 2, 3, and wala your teen is fixed. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the reality is absolutely nothing like you describe. It's obvious you are a program parent, desperate to convince yourself you made the right choice. Guess what? You didn't."
I guess as long as you're on your computer saying silly things like this, you aren't out there in the real world making inaccurate diagnoses of insanity or trying to be clairvoyant in the flesh, so rattle on . . . :wave:
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how about all of us who went there, instead of bickering amongst each other like 14 year old little girls, come together and spread the word. this place is fucked up...my home program, paradise cove is closed...but there are still other programs out there that are run by brian...and other assholes of the same caliber. by the way brian in not samoan....hes from the states...just because his heritige is from there does not make him samoan.
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Is there a way to see pictures of the facility? Or at least of the island?
I know it was hard to find any pictures of boulder creek after the fact, so I'm not quite holding my breath.
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On 2005-10-06 22:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how about all of us who went there, instead of bickering amongst each other like 14 year old little girls, come together and spread the word. this place is fucked up...my home program, paradise cove is closed...but there are still other programs out there that are run by brian...and other assholes of the same caliber. by the way brian in not samoan....hes from the states...just because his heritige is from there does not make him samoan. "
You couldn't be more right. Most of us who actually were at these facilities, are not on this forum bickering with the pro-programmers. I find it pointless-- because I know what is going on-- I lived it. I found this forum after searching for the program I was at, and it's great to know there's other people out there doing something about it. :tup: :tup:
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Tranquility Bay, Jamaica is still open. Plenty of pictures of that facility are available online.
Here's one:
(http://http://www.wwaspinfo.com/images/TB8_0AWL.jpg)
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(http://http://www.wwaspinfo.com/images/TB2_BSLA.jpg)
Tranquility Bay, cafeteria.
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See more pics of Tranquility Bay, here:
http://www.wwaspinfo.com/wst_page4.php (http://www.wwaspinfo.com/wst_page4.php)
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I have asked this question before and no one has answered it. Are there parties and dances for boys and girls at WWASP institutions? (I can't call them schools!) I need to know because one mother assured me that upper level girls at Cross Creek Manor had normal high school social activities. I don't want to call her a liar without doing some research. I hadn't spoken to her in 3 and a half years, but now she is calling me again. I don't know why. But maybe if I can catch her in another lie, she'll leave me alone for another 3 and a half years. :???:
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On 2005-10-08 21:28:00, Janet wrote:
"I have asked this question before and no one has answered it. Are there parties and dances for boys and girls at WWASP institutions? (I can't call them schools!) I need to know because one mother assured me that upper level girls at Cross Creek Manor had normal high school social activities. I don't want to call her a liar without doing some research. I hadn't spoken to her in 3 and a half years, but now she is calling me again. I don't know why. But maybe if I can catch her in another lie, she'll leave me alone for another 3 and a half years. :???: "
Sometimes, the gulags attempt to imitate "normal life" for the upper-level prisoners. But it's always a very twisted imitation. Last year (I'm pretty sure it was last year), there was a "prom" at Spring Creek Lodge. Boys and girls had to find some way to dance with each other without touching, because that was forbidden. From what I read, it appears that the kids spent most of their "prom" discussing their "transformation" and carefully making sure they aren't standing too close (or, God forbid, talking) to someone of the opposite gender.
The are many other examples of these sad attempts to imitate what could have been.
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That place looks like it fucking sucks. No "eh, well it wasn't that bad"...that place just looks miserable. And it must've been rough knowing you were there and you were fucked. I mean, you stick a boarding school in any random isolated corner of the US, and the kids are gonna find a way to break out and get home. But god damn Jamaica? It must've been pretty depressing waking up every morning. Especially in those "Hobbits".