Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 18, 2005, 06:26:00 PM
-
Here's the latest:
http://www.santafewaldorf.org/newsletter.html (http://www.santafewaldorf.org/newsletter.html)
-
Looks like Kim Rubin wasn't paying Rudy enough.
OR perhaps the Ed-con(artist) market is drying up?
One can only hope!
-
The thought of this guy working with elementary school kids is horrifying.
-
I wonder if the parents that send their kids to Waldorf in Santa Fe are aware of Rudy's past. I think the parents are a bunch of sheep that are easily conned into thinking their kids are getting a superior education for $10K. Instead they get Rudy with a questionable history and education.
-
I'm not too sure about this Rudy guy, you guys should tell me a little more about him. All I know is that there is a Waldorf School in my hometown, and it's actually a very good school. It has a stellar administration, and it is run in such a way that the administrator really can't implicate his own personal philosophies like he could in a CEDU school.
It's by no means an "emotional growth" school. Just a school that really nurtures kids that are obviously a bit slower in their cognitive and social development. I know that I'd be taken aback a little bit if I saw some shitty ex-CEDU staff take over as administrator of the Lexington Waldorf School, but in reality, your concerns might be a slight overreaction.
-
Annonymous wrote:
"I know that I'd be taken aback a little bit if I saw some shitty ex-CEDU staff take over as administrator of the Lexington Waldorf School, but in reality, your concerns might be a slight overreaction."
I'm sure that Lexington Waldorf may in fact be
a great school. Unfortunately, even the best school can have it's reputation ruined by a single bad egg. Rudy is definately a bad egg, actually, "bad egg" is a gross understatement. The truth is: Rudy Bentz is morally crippled. He is a sick, pedophilic, weirdo, who has no place being near anybody's children.
It would really be aweful to find out in a year from now, that Lexington Waldorf School is being sued, because Rudy molested, or otherwise abused his student(s).
Since he's already been hired, I guess the best we can hope for is that Rudy's new employer keeps him on a very tight leash.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-09-20 06:44 ]
-
Since he's already been hired, I guess the best we can hope for is that Rudy's new employer keeps him on a very tight leash.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-09-20 06:44 ]"
That's the point. The people above Rudy WILL keep him on a very tight leash. That's the way the Waldorf Schools are run.
-
I think the fact that they hired the sob, given his history, casts doubt on the quality of the institution. Has it changed hands recently?
Immortality: A toy which people cry for, And on their knees apply for, Dispute, contend and lie for, And if allowed Would be right proud Eternally to die for.
--Ambrose Bierce
-
Well since no one can tell me anything about this guy, I can't really tell you anything about their logic. I have no idea if there have been changes. All I know is that the Waldorf I know is very well run and some douchebag administrator would not have free reign to mess around.
-
He's not just a "douchebag." He's drunken MANSLAUGHTERER. He worked for at least three confirmedly abusive "programs" where he has physically attacked residents, verbally and psychologically abused them, treated them like objects, scarred them for life and he did it all in the name of money (not to mention his cruel sadism, which was enthusiastically endorsed by the facilities).
So, what I'm saying is that this PARTICULAR Waldorf school is playing with fire and exposing the children to danger that is 100% avoidable. Why is it ok to take risks like that with children's lives?
-
On 2005-09-20 20:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well since no one can tell me anything about this guy, I can't really tell you anything about their logic. "
This website contains volumes of information on Rudy Bentz, all you have to do is look for it.
Use the search feature here at fornits, and type
"Rudy Bentz" as the keyword. You'll find everything you could possibly want to know(as well as some very sick things you'd rather not know). Just make sure the you have enough free time on your hands: Rudy's history of tormenting kids for the past 30 years is well documented (here at fornits), and you could easily spend an entire weekend going through it all.
-
Well since I don't have that kind of time, and you guys obviously do, how about you do it for me and just sum it all up.
-
On 2005-09-21 16:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well since I don't have that kind of time, and you guys obviously do, how about you do it for me and just sum it all up. "
Why even pretend to care? Just stick your head back in the sand and be done with it. If you're lucky, you'll never have a child that comes in contact with a piece of garbage like this guy.
But, hey, what do you care anyway?
-
Sorry pal, but you'll never get anywhere in life
sitting on your ass, expecting everything to be handed to you! You should know that by now.
Seriously, if you're not willing spend the time required to learn about this subject (Rudy), then obviously this really isn't all that important to you.
-
I'm pretty sure he was joking. I think that was him basically saying he could care less.
-
[ This Message was edited by: wiseup on 2005-12-26 16:11 ]
-
Dude do you ever get out of the house?
-
On 2005-09-22 13:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Dude do you ever get out of the house?"
You should ask yourself this very same question.
Seriously, why do you come out here and
berate people, over something you obviously
don't give a shit about?
It sounds to me like you have way too much free
time on hands. Perhaps it would help if
you went out and found yourself a job, at
least then you might have a constructive way
to spend your time. What's stopping you
anyways? Maybe you're just not sure
where to start looking, or you don't know
what your qualifications are... No problem,
I can help you. Just repeat after me:
"Would you like fries with that?"
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-09-22 13:26 ]
-
Yea, maybe. Or maybe I can go work construction like a few other dropouts we know.
-
And damn Son, you're awfully sensitive aren't you. "Do you get out of the house". That's berating? Daddy break out the wooden spoon on you a little often?
-
On 2005-09-22 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yea, maybe. Or maybe I can go work construction like a few other dropouts we know. "
"And damn Son, you're awfully sensitive aren't you. "Do you get out of the house". That's berating? Daddy break out the wooden spoon on you a little often?"
Wow, I guess you really told me...
More inspiring words of wisdom from Ottawa5 AKA
"Gentiana" AKA Crazy ANNE from Minneapolis, or
perhaps one of her deeply disturbed children.
Or is this Anne herself pretending to be one her fucked up kids?
Who cares...Most of us gave up trying make sense of ANNE'S insanity a long time ago. We can tune Anne out simply by shutting off the computer. Anne's poor kids don't have that luxury, they've had to deal with Anne's insanity their entire lives. It's no wonder that Anne's older son is a former drug-addict turned sociopath, while her daughter is mentally challenged, which consequently makes her socially crippled.
Crazy Anne (Ottawa) reminds me of Carrie Walker's mother from the 1970's Horror movie classic "Carrie"...Y'Know, the woman who
doesn't let her daughter leave the house because: "THEY'RE ALL GONNA LAUGH AT YOU!"
Considering what a crazy controlling bitch his mother is, it's no wonder why Anne's son became a crack head, the poor kid was desperately looking for anyway to escape his twisted
home life.
This also explains Anne's allegations that her son was happy at RMA,of course he was: it was the first time in his life where mommy didn't have to dress him every morning.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-09-23 07:32 ]
-
Can you tell us more about the crack head son? Why does a rich kid turn to such heavy street drugs?
-
Rudy appeared to be very compassionate when he was head master at ASR, very professional and the kids seemed to like him. The kids called ASR "The Bubble" bacuase they felt very safe there. Maybe I saw a different side of him or maybe he changed, but all the kids seemed to be able to approach him.
-
On 2005-09-23 09:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Rudy appeared to be very compassionate when he was head master at ASR, very professional and the kids seemed to like him. The kids called ASR "The Bubble" bacuase they felt very safe there. Maybe I saw a different side of him or maybe he changed, but all the kids seemed to be able to approach him."
Did you work there? Did you ever sit in on a group or "rap"? That's when things get ugly.
He seems pretty normal during the course of regular business, but when it comes time to "confront" a kid, he turns into a really abusive animal.
I personally have seen him stand a kid up in front of all his peers and begin to explain why the kid had "the smallest penis in the entire school." I've seen him call young women "sluts" and "whores" and worse, even blaming them for sexual abuse committed against them.
He really is a twisted and sick fuck. I've seen it and there are so many similar accounts from many, many different people, both staff and clients, that I have no reason to doubt any of it.
-
Yes I sat in on a few groups with him and I didnt see what you saw, though I am not saying you didnt. Maybe it was pointed out to him that he was being abusive and degrading and changed his approach, maybe it was at a previous school. I spoke to many kids and they all seemed to like him and most of the counselors. If I ever saw someone in authority do what you describe and I was a student at that school I wouldnt say nice things about him and if I was afraid I wouldnt say anything. People make mistakes, they learn from them sometimes and they grow into better people.
-
On 2005-09-23 10:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
People make mistakes, they learn from them sometimes and they grow into better people."
How true is that? How many of you before being sent to your respective programs were involved in some pretty "sick" shit? I'm sure you had said some very nasty things to people, and chances are, you ended up at one of these schools because of aspects of your lifestyles that weren't particularly redeeming.
Now obviously, that's not nearly the same as a staff member standing someone up and degrading them based on the size of their johnson, or calling a girl a slut in front of her peers. That kind of action is just inexcusable, and I won't for a second defend Rudy's choice to do what he did. If I had known Rudy, I probably would have hated him too. All I'm saying is that I'm sure there are things in all of our pasts (there definitely are in mine).
But all of this about Rudy is from so far back that he's had plenty of time to realize what he was doing. Some of us got so caught up in what was going on at those schools that it took us quite some time to re-program, or de-program ourselves once we were out. Maybe that happened to staff members like Rudy as well? Maybe he went in with a cool, level head, but then gradually became a "sick animal" or whatever you want to say about him. And maybe he has laid in bed countless nights since thinking to himself how disgusting it all became, all the while wishing he could take it all back. And maybe, just maybe, he returned to decent form by the time he reached ASR, and now, as we've been debating, Santa Fe Waldorf.
Because in all reality, people do change. And over enough time, it can be bewildering how much a person really can change. Some people change a little bit, some people you'd never even recognize.
Perhaps Rudy still is, and always has been, a piece of trash. People who witnessed his disturbing acts firsthand, and people who were even a victim of them, I'm not for one second trying to discount what you feel. You have every right to be angry with him and even to hold a grudge against him.
But in the end, isn't it possible that he might have changed?
-
For the record (that last post was mine), since it seems to make a huge difference on perspective around here, I was a student.
-
In what capacity were you observing? Normally, when an "outsider" is at the facility to observe, there's a dog-and-pony-show set up before-hand to insure that the observer sees only a carefully crafted show, rather than the actual goings-on of the facility.
The buildings and the kids get cleaned up and instructions are given to staff and students on exactly what can and cannot be said and to whom.
Just the fact that the Headmaster was leading a group while you observed seems very strange. That seems like a show in and of itself. Where were the counselors? I know that any "unqualiifed" (no degree, no certification, no license - the vast majority) ones would be barred from a group under observation for legal reasons.
Tell us about the circumstances under which you came to be observing at ASR.
-
My daughter was attending there, and have dropped in unannounced and attended the groups for parents and parents/children. When we went to check out the place we drove up unannounced and ate dinner with the kids and attended a group meeting with the whole school (stood in the back). The doors are usually open.[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-02-20 06:10 ]
-
I agree, if you do a search for posts on "asr" or "swift river" you dont see alot of negative reports, not like some of the other places which sound pretty bad.
-
On 2005-09-23 11:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My daughter was attending there, I live in Massachusetts and have dropped in unannounced and attended the groups for parents and parents/children. When we went to check out the place we drove up unannounced and ate dinner with the kids and attended a group meeting with the whole school (stood in the back). The doors are usually open."
Oh, I see. That explains a lot.
One, you never saw a group. You saw only what was intended for parents to see, which is usually quite antiseptic.
Two, you were a visitor, not an observer (as in a professional from a state agency or the like). The kids know what to say and what not to say. Should they complain about the program, they are severely punished.
It makes sense to me in light of what you described. You just haven't seen how these places work, and you will never be allowed to see either. Of course you never saw an abusive rap, because you've never seen a rap at all.
Please post again when you have some actual knowledge of the program, not what is spoon fed to you.
-
I am sorry you feel that way, but I didnt hear you say that you had first hand knowledge of ASR, I participated in the program for 16 months. I have been there and know kids who have graduated. Not to be condescending but you should slow down a bit and read the entire post.
-
They would never allow a visitor to view a rap. It took great lengths for even an observer to be able to see one. And as for Swift River vs. CEDU schools? There is no comparison. I am from Massachusetts as well, and I was a student at a CEDU school. So I know firsthand what CEDU was like, but also have a few friends from back home that were sent to Swift River. They told me all about how when you first get there, you don't even start at the school. You go on some cushy 3 month wilderness trip. Then, the school itself is not nearly on the same level as a CEDU school.
If the intensity at schools like BCA, RMA, CEDU High, etc. were a 10, Swift River was a 3. And what you saw diluted it even more.
-
We were posting at the same time, but maybe you should go back and read what you wrote, because it looks like more than one person thought you were merely a visitor.
-
Yea your right -- my first post appeared to indicate I was only a visitor, so I can see how it could be taken that I was someone with no knowledge of ASR. Hope my follow-up posts clear that up.
-
On 2005-09-23 12:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am sorry you feel that way, but I didnt hear you say that you had first hand knowledge of ASR, I participated in the program for 16 months. I have been there and know kids who have graduated. Not to be condescending but you should slow down a bit and read the entire post."
I think maybe you should take your own advice. I QUOTED a post that clearly said the poster was the PARENT of a student and that he/she VISITED the facility.
Maybe you missed the big white box with the quotation in it (like the one above where I quoted your post). If you did, I'd suggest an eye exam and maybe some reading glasses.
-
Yes you are right, my mistake, it appears to say I was only a visitor. I initially visited unannounced, prior to my daughter being enrolled. The following couple of years I got to know the school pretty well.
Hope that helps
-
I would like to hear first hand accounts from students who have been at Swift River within the past 6 months or parents of recent graduates. SInce Rudy is gone, they are trying to clean up their acts. I have a daughter there now.
I visited several schools before choosing asr and one seemed like a cult, even to parents. None of them are what they seem but is ASR such a bad place?
-
I just don't buy it when parents say they got to know the school well. You could've visited every weekend and been told countless volumes of stories by your daughter. You could've read all the books, seen all the videos, read all the online forums, networked with all the parents, chatted endlessly with the faculty...and yes, then you would know more about the school than the average person. But to think that you could even have the slightest glimpse into the mind of a student who attended one of those schools, well you're just kidding yourself. To walk on those campuses day in and day out, to sit in those raps and those workshops, to see and experience the things that we saw and experienced, to go to sleep every night in that place...no one could ever comprehend what that was like. No friend or family member of mine has ever been able to grasp in the slightest bit just what it was like to be a student there. Not even staff could tell you what it was like to live in our minds. No one will ever understand it except the kid's who were forced to endure it.
-
On 2005-09-23 09:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
The kids called ASR "The Bubble" bacuase they felt very safe there. Maybe I saw a different side of him or maybe he changed, but all the kids seemed to be able to approach him."
wow, that's healthy! what excellent preparation for the real world! that's just what every kid needs during their formative years. a bubble to deceive them of how harsh reality is.
-
I am not claiming to know it at all (except to compare it to what little I have seen). What little I do know, is that is was the best of place that I did see. My daughter would not be happy anywhere, except at home. But she would be in jail if she were here, and surely this place has to be better than juvenile detention or inpatient drug rehab?
-
On 2005-09-23 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I would like to hear first hand accounts from students who have been at Swift River within the past 6 months or parents of recent graduates. SInce Rudy is gone, they are trying to clean up their acts. I have a daughter there now.
I visited several schools before choosing asr and one seemed like a cult, even to parents. None of them are what they seem but is ASR such a bad place?"
You won't find much help here since it really has nothing to do with CEDU.
-
ASR is not really a bad place at all. It's a gem of an alternative compared to the CEDU schools. With any Emotional Growth boarding school, you're just going to have to take the good with the bad. Obviously your daughter isn't doing well at home, and I don't blame you at all for wanting to do anything in your power to avoid juvenile detention or a drug rehab center.
But the downside is, there's a deep flaw in the whole emotional growth boarding school idea. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. ASR will keep your daughter out of harm's way and definitely out of jail...for the time being. One of the previous posters said it best. Those places just don't reflect reality. And there are staff, like this Rudy Bentz guy in his CEDU days, and like the Gunn's and Yarborough's and Rookey's, that think they are God's gift to troubled teens. They'll try to re-program the minds of innocent kids like your daughter, regardless of whether they think they're doing the right thing or not.
You just have to be careful. You may have simply found a temporary solution, because I have found in myriad situations that a lot of kids really do come out of those schools with the original destructive tendencies gone (or perhaps merely subsided), but a whole mess of new confusion, anger, frustration, and whatever else comes as a result, embedded in their minds.
If you sift through the name-calling, slander, and hatred in these forums, you can find abundance of raw, disturbing truth.
-
On 2005-09-23 15:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am not claiming to know it at all (except to compare it to what little I have seen). What little I do know, is that is was the best of place that I did see. My daughter would not be happy anywhere, except at home. But she would be in jail if she were here, and surely this place has to be better than juvenile detention or inpatient drug rehab?"
deadinsaneorinjail. i've heard that before....
-
On 2005-09-23 14:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just don't buy it when parents say they got to know the school well. You could've visited every weekend and been told countless volumes of stories by your daughter. You could've read all the books, seen all the videos, read all the online forums, networked with all the parents, chatted endlessly with the faculty...and yes, then you would know more about the school than the average person. But to think that you could even have the slightest glimpse into the mind of a student who attended one of those schools, well you're just kidding yourself. To walk on those campuses day in and day out, to sit in those raps and those workshops, to see and experience the things that we saw and experienced, to go to sleep every night in that place...no one could ever comprehend what that was like. No friend or family member of mine has ever been able to grasp in the slightest bit just what it was like to be a student there. Not even staff could tell you what it was like to live in our minds. No one will ever understand it except the kid's who were forced to endure it.
I dont think anyone here thinks they can understand what goes on in anyone elses mind. The best thing we can do is ask questions, keep an open mind and pass along our experiences. Some of us have partaken in the programs, others know people who have and still others have merely only heard a few words about it. But all input negative or positive is useful in some perspectives. I think everyone should be able to respond and post their experiences.
-
On 2005-09-23 14:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes you are right, my mistake, it appears to say I was only a visitor. I initially visited unannounced, prior to my daughter being enrolled. The following couple of years I got to know the school pretty well.
Hope that helps"
So you were a regular visitor.
You never sat in on the so-called "therapy." You truly have no idea what goes on in groups there.
-
I just wrote the last post, was trying to respond to a previous post, not sure how to do the qoute thing
-
Like someone else said, no one really knows what goes on in the therapy sessions except the people who are in the room at the time. We were told "What is said in the room stays in the room" and I think that is fair for everyone.
-
How do you put the little box with the qoute in it? Its a nice way to keep the posts clear
-
On 2005-09-23 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-09-23 14:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
I dont think anyone here thinks they can understand what goes on in anyone elses mind. The best thing we can do is ask questions, keep an open mind and pass along our experiences. Some of us have partaken in the programs, others know people who have and still others have merely only heard a few words about it. But all input negative or positive is useful in some perspectives. I think everyone should be able to respond and post their experiences."
No one said you're not free to post whatever you please around here. I'm just saying, it has become pretty common around here to see parents coming in and telling survivors that many of their feelings aren't valid. I'm not saying you did that, but you were on that path. You just have to be careful, because that's probably the easiest way to offend someone around here, at least in my opinion.
Oh and the quote thing is easy, just find whatever post you want to quote and hit the little 'quote' button beneath it. It'll put the HTML and the post into your post for you. Then all you do is type your response to the quote beneath all the HTML.
-
I dont think anyone here thinks they can understand what goes on in anyone elses mind. The best thing we can do is ask questions, keep an open mind and pass along our experiences. Some of us have partaken in the programs, others know people who have and still others have merely only heard a few words about it. But all input negative or positive is useful in some perspectives. I think everyone should be able to respond and post their experiences.
-
Haha, and try not to type inside the quote HTML like I just did.
-
On 2005-09-23 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-09-23 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-09-23 14:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
Oh and the quote thing is easy, just find whatever post you want to quote and hit the little 'quote' button beneath it. It'll put the HTML and the post into your post for you. Then all you do is type your response to the quote beneath all the HTML. "
Thanks
-
On 2005-09-23 15:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But the downside is, there's a deep flaw in he whole emotional growth boarding school idea. "
You've said a mouthful. I dare say that if any school bills itself as an "emotional growth school", watch out.
-
Let's get back on topic: "Rudy Bentz - Abusive Animal"
-
On 2005-09-23 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I would like to hear first hand accounts from students who have been at Swift River within the past 6 months or parents of recent graduates. SInce Rudy is gone, they are trying to clean up their acts. I have a daughter there now.
I visited several schools before choosing asr and one seemed like a cult, even to parents. None of them are what they seem but is ASR such a bad place?"
What happened to Rudy? Why did he leave? Did anyone share with you the reasons for his leaving? How are they "cleaning up their act"?
-
I am not sure why Rudy and Jill left, but I think they was asked to leave. ASR has been overhauled (staff changes) for the better. I believe they realized that they had a bad reputation and are slowly improving things. One of their therapists from several years ago left (perhaps due to staff or policies) and she is now back, which is a good sign. I know none of these schools are perfect, far from it as I read the commments on this forum. However, when kids simply cannot be treated at home,parents need an alternative than jail.
I realize that what I saw was a "Stepford" version of ASR when we visited but I saw other schools that seemed much more controlling (almost cult-like).
-
You have no ide what you are talking about. I had the priveledge of being taught by Rudy for 3 years, though he was thought of to be harsh, he was usually dead on. It is a shame that more people didn't get to know him the way my peer group did.
-
On 2005-10-04 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You have no ide what you are talking about. I had the priveledge of being taught by Rudy for 3 years, though he was thought of to be harsh, he was usually dead on. It is a shame that more people didn't get to know him the way my peer group did. "
what did he teach you? how to masturbate with a piece of liver and a milk carton? how to determine who has the smallest penis at the facility? these are some of his typical "lessons."
-
On 2005-10-05 05:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-04 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You have no ide what you are talking about. I had the priveledge of being taught by Rudy for 3 years, though he was thought of to be harsh, he was usually dead on. It is a shame that more people didn't get to know him the way my peer group did. "
what did he teach you? how to masturbate with a piece of liver and a milk carton? how to determine who has the smallest penis at the facility? these are some of his typical "lessons.""
I dont think you expect anyone to believe that his typical daily lessons revolved around masturbation and measuring kids penis's? And of the thousands of kids he was exposed to and taught not one of them told their parents? All the kids passing through the programs accepted this as normal and didnt say anything?
If he did this to just one kid, he would be in jail so fast and his name would be on the front of every paper. Remember the publicity the teacher got for sleeping with her student (it was only one kid and he liked it) and it still got out? And you claim Rudy does this everyday with thousands of kids and not one has come forward and pressed charges? The first one who comes forward could get millions in settlement and retire at age 20.
Someone is yankin yer chain, me think, when they told you this or you just made it up.
-
[ This Message was edited by: wiseup on 2005-12-26 16:13 ]
-
I knew Rudy Bentz when he worked at Cedu Running Springs. Guess what? I too remember hearing that sick fuck explain how he placed warm liver inside a milk carton with a hole cut on one side, and fucked it until the thing fell apart!
I also remember that Rudy would often publicly humiliate male students who he felt "were not working toward being part of the school." Rudy's favorite way of doing this involved calling the whole school's attention (usually right before raps) and announcing publicly which male students had the smallest dick.--Laughter and applause were also strongly encouraged.
On a personal note:
Rudy Bentz actually tried manhandling me once, but I was stronger than him, so instead he got slammed into a book shelf!
Rudy Bentz is a sick, abusive, pedophilic freak!
He's tormented hundreds (perhaps thousands)of children over his 30 career in the bullshit- emotional-growth-scam-industry, and yes he's truly every bit the monster that people make him out to be.
Seriously Troll, get a life already, and stop fronting like you know Rudy Bentz, because it's obvious you don't know shit!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-10-05 14:49 ]
-
On 2005-10-05 14:47:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"I knew Rudy Bentz when he worked at Cedu Running Springs. Guess what? I too remember hearing that sick fuck explain how he placed warm liver inside a milk carton with a hole cut on one side, and fucked it until the thing fell apart!
I also remember that Rudy would often publicly humiliate male students who he felt "were not working toward being part of the school." Rudy's favorite way of doing this involved calling the whole school's attention (usually right before raps) and announcing publicly which male students had the smallest dick.--Laughter and applause were also strongly encouraged.
On a personal note:
Rudy Bentz actually tried manhandling me once, but I was stronger than him, so instead he got slammed into a book shelf!
Rudy Bentz is a sick, abusive, pedophilic freak!
He's tormented hundreds (perhaps thousands)of children over his 30 career in the bullshit- emotional-growth-scam-industry, and yes he's truly every bit the monster that people make him out to be.
Seriously Troll, get a life already, and stop fronting like you know Rudy Bentz, because it's obvious you don't know shit!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-10-05 14:49 ]"
Well I actually knew Rudy, believe it or not and I have been involved as a parent when he was with Swift River Academy and what you are saying is far from the truth. Anyone who has been part of a program would tell you that if a kid was being ridiculed in front of the school the other kids would not be laughing and cheering. You just blew your case right there. The kids were good kids and would not enjoy seeing this happen (maybe thats what makes you different or what makes us disagree).
-
On 2005-10-05 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-05 14:47:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"I knew Rudy Bentz when he worked at Cedu Running Springs. Guess what? I too remember hearing that sick fuck explain how he placed warm liver inside a milk carton with a hole cut on one side, and fucked it until the thing fell apart!
I also remember that Rudy would often publicly humiliate male students who he felt "were not working toward being part of the school." Rudy's favorite way of doing this involved calling the whole school's attention (usually right before raps) and announcing publicly which male students had the smallest dick.--Laughter and applause were also strongly encouraged.
On a personal note:
Rudy Bentz actually tried manhandling me once, but I was stronger than him, so instead he got slammed into a book shelf!
Rudy Bentz is a sick, abusive, pedophilic freak!
He's tormented hundreds (perhaps thousands)of children over his 30 career in the bullshit- emotional-growth-scam-industry, and yes he's truly every bit the monster that people make him out to be.
Seriously Troll, get a life already, and stop fronting like you know Rudy Bentz, because it's obvious you don't know shit!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-10-05 14:49 ]"
Well I actually knew Rudy, believe it or not and I have been involved as a parent when he was with Swift River Academy and what you are saying is far from the truth. Anyone who has been part of a program would tell you that if a kid was being ridiculed in front of the school the other kids would not be laughing and cheering. You just blew your case right there. The kids were good kids and would not enjoy seeing this happen (maybe thats what makes you different or what makes us disagree).
"
Did you like, skip high school, or something? Of course kids laugh at other kids getting humiliated! ESPECIALLY in high school! It doesn't matter what kind of high school it is, either. Public, private, boarding, behavior mod. Teenagers can be cruel assholes. If kids were being called out for having small dicks in front of the rest of the school, you're damn right other kids would laugh! I probably would have laughed myself when I was that age. That's just the way it is. It doesn't make it right, but let's be realistic, here.
-
Parent, you sound like a fool making such a "sure" statement and sounding quite sure of yourself. Again, I am tired of parents trying to act like they were experts of the inner workings of those schools. Because they got a cookie cutter glimpse of the school and a ton of BS crammed down their throat by human resource facilitators, they suddenly know what happened to us better than we did.
The fact is, these schools evolved as time went on. They started out reflected by how Serb described it (and his dedication to the effects of Emotional Growth schools lends some serious credit to his allegations), and gradually became cushier and cushier. Back in the time Serb knew Rudy, I have no doubt that Rudy was doing the things Serb described. Because quite simply, staff could get away with that. And I do remember my years at BCA well; if staff could still have gotten away with saying something like that in 1999, the students would have roared with laughter.
Just because Rudy couldn't get away with that so recently at ASR, an environment drastically different and utterly incomparable to Running Springs in the 80's, doesn't mean that's the kind of person he was and is.
Get off your ridiculous "parent pedestal". It's getting tiring.
-
On 2005-10-06 00:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Parent, you sound like a fool making such a "sure" statement and sounding quite sure of yourself. Again, I am tired of parents trying to act like they were experts of the inner workings of those schools. Because they got a cookie cutter glimpse of the school and a ton of BS crammed down their throat by human resource facilitators, they suddenly know what happened to us better than we did.
The fact is, these schools evolved as time went on. They started out reflected by how Serb described it (and his dedication to the effects of Emotional Growth schools lends some serious credit to his allegations), and gradually became cushier and cushier. Back in the time Serb knew Rudy, I have no doubt that Rudy was doing the things Serb described. Because quite simply, staff could get away with that. And I do remember my years at BCA well; if staff could still have gotten away with saying something like that in 1999, the students would have roared with laughter.
Just because Rudy couldn't get away with that so recently at ASR, an environment drastically different and utterly incomparable to Running Springs in the 80's, doesn't mean that's the kind of person he was and is.
Get off your ridiculous "parent pedestal". It's getting tiring. "
If you are referring to me, (the person who made the comment right before yours), I'm not a parent and I don't have kids. I went to RMA in the late 80s, and that was the first comment I've made in this conversation so far.
-
On 2005-10-05 14:47:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"I knew Rudy Bentz when he worked at Cedu Running Springs. Guess what? I too remember hearing that sick fuck explain how he placed warm liver inside a milk carton with a hole cut on one side, and fucked it until the thing fell apart!
I also remember that Rudy would often publicly humiliate male students who he felt "were not working toward being part of the school." Rudy's favorite way of doing this involved calling the whole school's attention (usually right before raps) and announcing publicly which male students had the smallest dick.--Laughter and applause were also strongly encouraged.
On a personal note:
Rudy Bentz actually tried manhandling me once, but I was stronger than him, so instead he got slammed into a book shelf!
Rudy Bentz is a sick, abusive, pedophilic freak!
He's tormented hundreds (perhaps thousands)of children over his 30 career in the bullshit- emotional-growth-scam-industry, and yes he's truly every bit the monster that people make him out to be.
Seriously Troll, get a life already, and stop fronting like you know Rudy Bentz, because it's obvious you don't know shit!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-10-05 14:49 ]"
I'm afraid you just don't have a clue about which you speak, ma'am. You are disputing first-hand accounts from folks who have witnessed this behavior personally with what amounts to your "feelings" about Rudy or the "program." That simply doesn't hold water.
I worked with Rudy in 1994 and 1995 at Hidden Lake Academy and I too personally witnessed him saying EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS. I'm afraid your thinking about Rudy just doesn't measure up to reality. There are too many accounts separated temporally and spatially, but nearly identical, for any thinking person to dismiss them based on no evidence whatsover. You are off the mark, lady, way off.
The fact is that abusers have PATTERNS of abuse, and this disgusting, sexually suggestive and humiliating behavior is Rudy's pattern, whether you choose to accept it or not.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-06 05:42 ]
-
On 2005-10-06 00:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-06 00:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Parent, you sound like a fool making such a "sure" statement and sounding quite sure of yourself. Again, I am tired of parents trying to act like they were experts of the inner workings of those schools. Because they got a cookie cutter glimpse of the school and a ton of BS crammed down their throat by human resource facilitators, they suddenly know what happened to us better than we did.
The fact is, these schools evolved as time went on. They started out reflected by how Serb described it (and his dedication to the effects of Emotional Growth schools lends some serious credit to his allegations), and gradually became cushier and cushier. Back in the time Serb knew Rudy, I have no doubt that Rudy was doing the things Serb described. Because quite simply, staff could get away with that. And I do remember my years at BCA well; if staff could still have gotten away with saying something like that in 1999, the students would have roared with laughter.
Just because Rudy couldn't get away with that so recently at ASR, an environment drastically different and utterly incomparable to Running Springs in the 80's, doesn't mean that's the kind of person he was and is.
Get off your ridiculous "parent pedestal". It's getting tiring. "
If you are referring to me, (the person who made the comment right before yours), I'm not a parent and I don't have kids. I went to RMA in the late 80s, and that was the first comment I've made in this conversation so far."
No no, I was referring to that parent who said they had known Rudy at ASR and hadn't had the pleasure of seeing his wicked side. Of course, that MUST mean that Serb, someone who actually had to endure Rudy's tyrades, is wrong, right?
Nah, I completely agree with you...someone must have had to skip high school to think that kids wouldn't laugh their asses off at something like that. "They were all good kids". Bullshit. Most of the kids at BCA during my time were complete assholes and would have found something like that hilarious. I would've laughed too.
-
On 2005-10-06 05:35:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2005-10-05 14:47:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"I knew Rudy Bentz when he worked at Cedu Running Springs. Guess what? I too remember hearing that sick fuck explain how he placed warm liver inside a milk carton with a hole cut on one side, and fucked it until the thing fell apart!
I also remember that Rudy would often publicly humiliate male students who he felt "were not working toward being part of the school." Rudy's favorite way of doing this involved calling the whole school's attention (usually right before raps) and announcing publicly which male students had the smallest dick.--Laughter and applause were also strongly encouraged.
On a personal note:
Rudy Bentz actually tried manhandling me once, but I was stronger than him, so instead he got slammed into a book shelf!
Rudy Bentz is a sick, abusive, pedophilic freak!
He's tormented hundreds (perhaps thousands)of children over his 30 career in the bullshit- emotional-growth-scam-industry, and yes he's truly every bit the monster that people make him out to be.
Seriously Troll, get a life already, and stop fronting like you know Rudy Bentz, because it's obvious you don't know shit!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-10-05 14:49 ]"
I'm afraid you just don't have a clue about which you speak, ma'am. You are disputing first-hand accounts from folks who have witnessed this behavior personally with what amounts to your "feelings" about Rudy or the "program." That simply doesn't hold water.
I worked with Rudy in 1994 and 1995 at Hidden Lake Academy and I too personally witnessed him saying EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS. I'm afraid your thinking about Rudy just doesn't measure up to reality. There are too many accounts separated temporally and spatially, but nearly identical, for any thinking person to dismiss them based on no evidence whatsover. You are off the mark, lady, way off.
The fact is that abusers have PATTERNS of abuse, and this disgusting, sexually suggestive and humiliating behavior is Rudy's pattern, whether you choose to accept it or not.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-06 05:42 ]"
I saw a different Rudy than you did and my kid spent 16 months at the school he was at and never experienced anything even close to that, in fact just the opposite. These are also first hand accounts, Not saying you didnt see what you did, I guess people change as they grow and mature. I am definitely a different person than I was 10 or 15 years ago.
Sorry that you get so angry with people who disagree with you, doesnt mean you are wrong, just a different point of view.
-
You are just not getting the point, parent. I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm saying that the wool was pulled over your eyes. It happened to all parents, not just you. But we are students, some from decades ago, some from the same time period as your child, that are trying to tell you the truth. You can live on denying it, or you can accept it; it's your choice.
Parents, even parents who caught a first hand glimpse of certain staff in question, didn't see their true colors. Those staff were so sneaky, they were masters of playing a different role in front of parents while still making it seem as if that was who they were all the time. But did your child encounter Rudy in a rap? I know you didn't witness those first hand. And that's where the abuse really flowed.
Sure, perhaps Rudy doesn't stand people up in front of all the other students and belittle his endowment anymore. But that doesn't mean he can't sneak that abuse in, in a more subtle but equally damaging form, in raps. And then when kids complain about what they're subjected to in raps? Well, they usually wouldn't anyways, because they knew it was there word against the facilitators. And the facilitators always won that battle, and would make your life hell for months to come for merely trying to go over their heads.
Parent, that's just how it was. I am confident that your first hand experiences with Rudy did not give you a glimpse of how he handled kids. Even if he treated your kid with utter respect (preferential treatment for some students was the norm at these schools), which would definitely explain your praise for him, doesn't mean he was sticking his abuse to some other poor child.
-
On 2005-10-06 11:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
Even if he treated your kid with utter respect (preferential treatment for some students was the norm at these schools), which would definitely explain your praise for him, doesn't mean he was sticking his abuse to some other poor child. "
Sorry, that was my post...I meant to say "doesn't mean he wasn't sticking his abuse to some other poor child.
-
On 2005-10-06 09:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-06 05:35:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2005-10-05 14:47:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"I knew Rudy Bentz when he worked at Cedu Running Springs. Guess what? I too remember hearing that sick fuck explain how he placed warm liver inside a milk carton with a hole cut on one side, and fucked it until the thing fell apart!
I also remember that Rudy would often publicly humiliate male students who he felt "were not working toward being part of the school." Rudy's favorite way of doing this involved calling the whole school's attention (usually right before raps) and announcing publicly which male students had the smallest dick.--Laughter and applause were also strongly encouraged.
On a personal note:
Rudy Bentz actually tried manhandling me once, but I was stronger than him, so instead he got slammed into a book shelf!
Rudy Bentz is a sick, abusive, pedophilic freak!
He's tormented hundreds (perhaps thousands)of children over his 30 career in the bullshit- emotional-growth-scam-industry, and yes he's truly every bit the monster that people make him out to be.
Seriously Troll, get a life already, and stop fronting like you know Rudy Bentz, because it's obvious you don't know shit!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-10-05 14:49 ]"
I'm afraid you just don't have a clue about which you speak, ma'am. You are disputing first-hand accounts from folks who have witnessed this behavior personally with what amounts to your "feelings" about Rudy or the "program." That simply doesn't hold water.
I worked with Rudy in 1994 and 1995 at Hidden Lake Academy and I too personally witnessed him saying EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS. I'm afraid your thinking about Rudy just doesn't measure up to reality. There are too many accounts separated temporally and spatially, but nearly identical, for any thinking person to dismiss them based on no evidence whatsover. You are off the mark, lady, way off.
The fact is that abusers have PATTERNS of abuse, and this disgusting, sexually suggestive and humiliating behavior is Rudy's pattern, whether you choose to accept it or not.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-06 05:42 ]"
I saw a different Rudy than you did and my kid spent 16 months at the school he was at and never experienced anything even close to that, in fact just the opposite. These are also first hand accounts, Not saying you didnt see what you did, I guess people change as they grow and mature. I am definitely a different person than I was 10 or 15 years ago.
Sorry that you get so angry with people who disagree with you, doesnt mean you are wrong, just a different point of view."
Me? Oh, I'm not angry. Sometimes I use capitals for emphasis, but I'm not angry.
Anyway, what's germane to the discussion is that your child went to the "program," but you didn't. I worked for years at two separate facilities, one with Mr. Bentz. I can tell you that what goes on behind closed doors is a far cry from what is available for public consumption.
The children are given harsh consequences for "bad mouthing" the program or the staff. I would bet that your kid would refrain from doing so while there and after he got out as well to avoid being sent back or not believed.
I think it's safe to say that I've had infinitely more personal contact with this man than you, or your kid, for that matter, have had. I have interacted with him in the context of the program and in the course of normal life outside of the facility. Let there be no doubt but that this man has some severe interpersonal problems to say the least.
I don't doubt for a second that he presented to you as a nice and caring person, but, honestly, you never even scratched the surface with him. I have heard a lot of stories from former staff and students over the years about his abuse, both verbal and physical, and I have seen it with my own two eyes. In fact, his outrageous and abusive behavior in the name of "therapy" is what ultimately caused me to leave the facility where I worked (not to mention the horrid revelations induced by a few scotches).
So, please, do continue to post your opinions/impressions, but be aware that you have little or no true knowledge or experience with this fellow, while some of us know exactly what he's all about...
-
On 2005-10-06 11:50:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2005-10-06 09:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-06 05:35:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2005-10-05 14:47:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"I knew Rudy Bentz when he worked at Cedu Running Springs. Guess what? I too remember hearing that sick fuck explain how he placed warm liver inside a milk carton with a hole cut on one side, and fucked it until the thing fell apart!
I also remember that Rudy would often publicly humiliate male students who he felt "were not working toward being part of the school." Rudy's favorite way of doing this involved calling the whole school's attention (usually right before raps) and announcing publicly which male students had the smallest dick.--Laughter and applause were also strongly encouraged.
On a personal note:
Rudy Bentz actually tried manhandling me once, but I was stronger than him, so instead he got slammed into a book shelf!
Rudy Bentz is a sick, abusive, pedophilic freak!
He's tormented hundreds (perhaps thousands)of children over his 30 career in the bullshit- emotional-growth-scam-industry, and yes he's truly every bit the monster that people make him out to be.
Seriously Troll, get a life already, and stop fronting like you know Rudy Bentz, because it's obvious you don't know shit!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-10-05 14:49 ]"
I'm afraid you just don't have a clue about which you speak, ma'am. You are disputing first-hand accounts from folks who have witnessed this behavior personally with what amounts to your "feelings" about Rudy or the "program." That simply doesn't hold water.
I worked with Rudy in 1994 and 1995 at Hidden Lake Academy and I too personally witnessed him saying EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS. I'm afraid your thinking about Rudy just doesn't measure up to reality. There are too many accounts separated temporally and spatially, but nearly identical, for any thinking person to dismiss them based on no evidence whatsover. You are off the mark, lady, way off.
The fact is that abusers have PATTERNS of abuse, and this disgusting, sexually suggestive and humiliating behavior is Rudy's pattern, whether you choose to accept it or not.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-06 05:42 ]"
I saw a different Rudy than you did and my kid spent 16 months at the school he was at and never experienced anything even close to that, in fact just the opposite. These are also first hand accounts, Not saying you didnt see what you did, I guess people change as they grow and mature. I am definitely a different person than I was 10 or 15 years ago.
Sorry that you get so angry with people who disagree with you, doesnt mean you are wrong, just a different point of view."
Me? Oh, I'm not angry. Sometimes I use capitals for emphasis, but I'm not angry.
Anyway, what's germane to the discussion is that your child went to the "program," but you didn't. I worked for years at two separate facilities, one with Mr. Bentz. I can tell you that what goes on behind closed doors is a far cry from what is available for public consumption.
The children are given harsh consequences for "bad mouthing" the program or the staff. I would bet that your kid would refrain from doing so while there and after he got out as well to avoid being sent back or not believed.
I think it's safe to say that I've had infinitely more personal contact with this man than you, or your kid, for that matter, have had. I have interacted with him in the context of the program and in the course of normal life outside of the facility. Let there be no doubt but that this man has some severe interpersonal problems to say the least.
I don't doubt for a second that he presented to you as a nice and caring person, but, honestly, you never even scratched the surface with him. I have heard a lot of stories from former staff and students over the years about his abuse, both verbal and physical, and I have seen it with my own two eyes. In fact, his outrageous and abusive behavior in the name of "therapy" is what ultimately caused me to leave the facility where I worked (not to mention the horrid revelations induced by a few scotches).
So, please, do continue to post your opinions/impressions, but be aware that you have little or no true knowledge or experience with this fellow, while some of us know exactly what he's all about...
"
I am not saying I knew him more or less than anyone else. No one would really know him unless they were with him for his entire life. We all saw snap shots... me on and off for 16 months...my kid more so for 16 months...you saw him for the time you did and each of us formed an impression from our exposure. My kid is over 18 and isnt afraid to go back and talks openly about the good and bad. He might have held back his good side from you and his bad side from me, but over time your true side comes out and if its bad you will end up in jail eventually.
So, please, do continue to post your opinions/impressions, but be aware that we all have little or no true knowledge or experience with this fellow, while some of us feel we know exactly what he's all about we really dont
-
I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong. You saw snapshots, I saw real-life up-close reality, and so did these other folks. You're head is in the sand.
What we're talking about here aren't normally "jailable" offenses, but rather a reflection of moral terpitude and lack of ethics.
Again, not everyone who deserves to be in jail ends up there. For instance, did you know that Rudy Bentz, while driving drunk, struck and killed a man with his vehicle? He's a vehicular manslaughterer (this is a proven fact admitted by Rudy many times over many years), yet he never went to jail.
So much for your "theory."
-
On 2005-10-06 14:52:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong. You saw snapshots, I saw real-life up-close reality, and so did these other folks. You're head is in the sand.
What we're talking about here aren't normally "jailable" offenses, but rather a reflection of moral terpitude and lack of ethics.
Again, not everyone who deserves to be in jail ends up there. For instance, did you know that Rudy Bentz, while driving drunk, struck and killed a man with his vehicle? He's a vehicular manslaughterer (this is a proven fact admitted by Rudy many times over many years), yet he never went to jail.
So much for your "theory."
"
He made a mistake and he paid for it. We discussed this in one of the groups we attended with my child, Rudy brought it up as an example of what drugs and alcohol can do to a persons life if left un checked. This just further proves that there are consequences to every action if it continues. Yes I saw snap shots as I mentioned, we all did. My kid was there 16 months, which you failed to read. So you condem everyone in N.A. and A.A. for their past mistakes, interesting, at least they are working on improving their lives and dealing with their past. People like you are the reason they have closed meetings,as they should, its hard enough for some people as it is without worrying where their story will end up.
-
This lady sounds like a young Ottawa in the making...
She won't get it. Everything staff fed to her to keep her son at that school is fact to her. She'll never figure it out, and she's not open at all to hearing the truth.
She really just defines sheep.
-
On 2005-10-06 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This lady sounds like a young Ottawa in the making...
She won't get it. Everything staff fed to her to keep her son at that school is fact to her. She'll never figure it out, and she's not open at all to hearing the truth.
She really just defines sheep. "
Yeah, you got that right.
I said it in another thread today: StrugglingParents live in a world of suspended reality. They create a "new world" that conforms to their beliefs instead of shaping their world view around objective reality.
These type of folks live in a carefully crafted alternate reality designed solely to reinforce what they've been fed by "the program." To view the world as it really is is to admit they spend tens of thousands of dollars to have their children abused by strangers because they weren't up to the task of parenting. To break with program logic is to admit to total failure as a parent.
So, yeah, Rudy Bentz is a great, compassionate saver of children. You keep on thinking that, lady. And have another Kool-Aid. Be sure to drink it with a Krazy Straw...
-
On 2005-10-06 16:19:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2005-10-06 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This lady sounds like a young Ottawa in the making...
She won't get it. Everything staff fed to her to keep her son at that school is fact to her. She'll never figure it out, and she's not open at all to hearing the truth.
She really just defines sheep. "
Yeah, you got that right.
I said it in another thread today: StrugglingParents live in a world of suspended reality. They create a "new world" that conforms to their beliefs instead of shaping their world view around objective reality.
These type of folks live in a carefully crafted alternate reality designed solely to reinforce what they've been fed by "the program." To view the world as it really is is to admit they spend tens of thousands of dollars to have their children abused by strangers because they weren't up to the task of parenting. To break with program logic is to admit to total failure as a parent.
So, yeah, Rudy Bentz is a great, compassionate saver of children. You keep on thinking that, lady. And have another Kool-Aid. Be sure to drink it with a Krazy Straw...
"
I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view. After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs, but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone.
-
And let's not forget the "stockholm syndrome" issue, as well. Your kids might not even tell you how assholey the staff are, because they might even think they like them at the time. Caroline Wolf was incredibly popular at RMA, for example. (I hated her.) And I myself admired Sharon Kreider and considered her a "friend", even though she had a reputation for being quite brutal and tore me a new one in several raps. (She also did my containment in the Values.) Anyone who has been in a Sharon rap can back me up on this. She can cut to the quick. I mean, she wasn't irresponsible or as abusive as Rudy was, but my point was that I admired and respected someone I probably shouldn't have.
-
Look lady, just because your kid is doing "well" since graduating ASR DOESN'T mean he didn't get mentally abused by staff like Rudy Bentz. If not him, than there were plenty of other staff there to do it for him.
I graduated one of these programs, and by society's standards I'm doing very well! I get very good grades at an excellent school, my parents and I have decent relationships, blah blah, what else do you want me to say? It doesn't change the fact that those schools were a terrible place, and some of the people working there were just digusting people. And no, I won't pretend to know those staff 1/1000th as well as someone like Dysfunction.
Mentally, I'll never get over that place. And you know what? As well as I get along with my Mom these days (and believe me, that was an ugly relationship back in the day), I still can't tell her the truth about that place. Because she won't hear it. She bought into the BS so badly that she'll never accept anything different. And silently, every day, I go on not able to forgive her for that. Sounds like you just don't have a clue.
-
The immortal words of our favorite Ottawa...
I am the parent of a young man who graduated from RMA in 1999.
What shocks me is the "Hate CEDU" sites that I find on the internet--unbelievable to me that others have had such different experiences---are they wrong, dishonest, confused, I ask myself? I have no answer.
ottawa5@aol.com
And then this new lady...
I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view. After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs, but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone.
Boy, the similarities are striking....
-
****"I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view. After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs, but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone."***
This is typical faulty logic employed by "programmies." This particular logical fallacy is called "Post Hoc," or "post hoc ergo propter hoc" (after this therefore because of
this).
For every program "success story" this philosophical fallacy is employed: The problem was gone after the program, so the program fixed the problem.
Interestingly, this logic is strictly avoided in cases of program "failures": He/she "just didn't get it," or "didn't work the program."
To reiterate, program supporters/apologists will say anything to support their view/dogma regardless of how it is contraindicative to objective reality.
This lady is just another example of this fallacious reasoning.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-07 05:36 ]
-
Rudy's new job: Abusive Animal. :skull:
-
On 2005-10-07 05:34:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"****"I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view. After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs, but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone."***
This is typical faulty logic employed by "programmies." This particular logical fallacy is called "Post Hoc," or "post hoc ergo propter hoc" (after this therefore because of
this).
For every program "success story" this philosophical fallacy is employed: The problem was gone after the program, so the program fixed the problem.
Interestingly, this logic is strictly avoided in cases of program "failures": He/she "just didn't get it," or "didn't work the program."
To reiterate, program supporters/apologists will say anything to support their view/dogma regardless of how it is contraindicative to objective reality.
This lady is just another example of this fallacious reasoning.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-07 05:36 ]"
***To reiterate, program supporters/apologists will say anything to support their view/dogma regardless of how it is contraindicative to objective reality.****
Of all people to say that!! This site is loaded with people who turn a deaf ear to "anyone" who did well after attending one of the schools and dismiss them as stepford kids, or brain washed. You should step back a few paces and look at what is going on here, you are not looking for objective reality, you are chasing it away. I could log on and say "I never have heard of TBS but I support you 100%, I hate them" And I would get 100 cheers and supporters.
-
That post hoc fallacy is a two edged sword, you know. You point out how "programmies" falsely think that because they/their children are doing well post-CEDU, that it must be because CEDU helped them.
Well I think it is an overwhelming theme around here for people whose lives are not as stellar as they had hoped, or who are fucked up in the head, to employ that exact same fallacy and say that it is because of CEDU.
No one is going to get anywhere around here arguing so deafly to one another. There is no debating on these forums...just a bunch of anti-CEDU kids and adults alike with their views solidly in place bashing on a bunch of kids and adults who saw the programs as beneficial. No one accepts each others arguments, and weightless, hypocritical comments are being flung back and forth from both sides.
Doesn't anyone have something real to debate about?
-
How about evolution vs.intelligent deisgn?
-
On 2005-10-09 16:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That post hoc fallacy is a two edged sword, you know. You point out how "programmies" falsely think that because they/their children are doing well post-CEDU, that it must be because CEDU helped them.
Well I think it is an overwhelming theme around here for people whose lives are not as stellar as they had hoped, or who are fucked up in the head, to employ that exact same fallacy and say that it is because of CEDU.
No one is going to get anywhere around here arguing so deafly to one another. There is no debating on these forums...just a bunch of anti-CEDU kids and adults alike with their views solidly in place bashing on a bunch of kids and adults who saw the programs as beneficial. No one accepts each others arguments, and weightless, hypocritical comments are being flung back and forth from both sides.
Doesn't anyone have something real to debate about?"
How about a debate about the best way to handle this generation or the next generation of kids who are at risk. Should we improve the boarding schools? Educate the parents on how to weigh what is important? Give advice to the teens?
-
There you go, that's a great start. Here's some fuel for that.
I spent 2+ years at BCA, hated the entire experience, and definitely agree with the posters around here (the ones with real things to say of course, not the trolls). Before I went to BCA I was a complete fucking mess and going absolutely nowhere in life, and now I'm doing pretty well for myself. Now of course I agree with what DJ said about not falling into the post hoc trap.
But then the other day, the father of a good friend of mine called me about his son, the little brother of my good friend. He's a good man, a good father, and has raised 4 very good kids, but has one bad egg. The kid is completely out of control and doesn't think he has to answer to anyone. He's only 15, so he has about, oh say, a year or so before he starts really damaging his life.
He said "you graduated from that school, Boulder River, or whatever it's called. Should I send _____ there?"
So what a place to be in. I hate that place. I think BCA was terrible. I told him no, not a good idea to send him there, and without having to dive into my own personal reasons, I told him that it's just re-opening and not worth his trust right now.
But what the hell is he supposed to do with his kid? He said he doesn't want to give up, he doesn't want to seem like a failure of a father, but this kid just won't listen, and it's obvious that it's either going to take....
a. a 5 am wake-up from an escort, or...
b. a nice bid in juvy, which he might manage to avoid for a few years, but then it just gets worse.
I mean, I definitely don't want to see another kid get fucked up in the head by a program. So what other options are there out there? With this kid, there's really no "well, just keep trying to tough it out. He'll get it eventually." Or is it better to just put him in God's hands and hope for the best than to send him to the brand new BCA?
Haha, and by the way, I don't have kids yet...so this isn't one of those "well, my 'friend' has this problem.
-
Hey Serb, you talked about a school you went to that you liked--would that help in this case?
-
On 2005-10-09 21:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey Serb, you talked about a school you went to that you liked--would that help in this case?"
I attended Rock Point School in Burlington, Vermont. It is not a Behavior Modification
facility by any stretch of the imagination.
It's nothing like Cedu at all. Just a typical NOT-FOR-PROFIT Boarding school.
The focus of this school is academics, there's no emotional mind fucking whatsoever. Students who request it, can see a therapist in town once a week, or attend AA/NA meetings (the school provides transportation). Other than that, therapy is not part of the curriculum.
I found this refreshing, and liked the fact that Rock Point Staff treated my like a young-adult, and not like a pre-schooler as cedu staff had done. I was allowed to visit town 5 days a week.
I was allowed to have a girlfriend. I kept close contact with all my friends at home, and I could call whoever I wanted, whenever I wanted.
I spent my summers at home, plus had 4 scheduled vacations during the academic school year.
I liked this school because they rewarded academic achievement with extra privledges.
How far I could go with this was entirely up to me. I was even allowed to work part time jobs in town, and I participated in an internship at the local PBS TV station in Burlington.
The school also took me on field trips to Boston & Montreal, as well as camping in Vermont, New Hampshire, & upstate New York. We also went to rock concerts, museums, football games, movies,bowling, even pro-wresting matches...
They provided plenty of positive outlets for having fun.
(ANON) To answer your original question: yes Rockpoint School could be very helpful in this case; but the only way to be sure is for this man to contact the school, and visit with his son. Unlike Cedu, Rock Point staff will meet with your child and assess their individual needs. After which, they will give you an honest recommendation of whether or not the the school is right for your child.
Additionally, Rock Point has it's own educational consultant on staff. Even if Rock Point doesn't accept your child, they will at least guide you in finding an appropriate school for your child (free of charge).
On a final note, Rock Point School was Infinitely superior to what any cedu school could ever hope to offer; for about 1/3 of the cost! Tuition at Rock Point School from 1992-1994 was only $16,000.00 per year, compared to the $45,000.00 per year Cedu was charging at that time!
With those kind of savings, I strongly suggest that this man try the normal boarding school route, before he looks into these Bullshit- Emotional-Growth-Scam-Centers .
-
Sorry forgot to log in, I wrote the last post.
-
On 2005-10-09 16:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That post hoc fallacy is a two edged sword, you know. You point out how "programmies" falsely think that because they/their children are doing well post-CEDU, that it must be because CEDU helped them.
Well I think it is an overwhelming theme around here for people whose lives are not as stellar as they had hoped, or who are fucked up in the head, to employ that exact same fallacy and say that it is because of CEDU.
The difference is that CEDU, and places like it have been independently shown to hurt, not help, emotional and psychological development of children. Therefore it is not a fallacy to assert that it did indeed cause lingering damage to some of these folks.
In addition, my experience with people here is that the vast majority say "CEDU (or other EG program) really hurt me and caused a lot of problems for me, but I've overcome that to be a good person and lead a good life." I agree that some of the more obstreperous posters that blame current problems on experiences from decades ago need to examine other aspects of their lives that may account for some of their "shortcomings."
No one is going to get anywhere around here arguing so deafly to one another. There is no debating on these forums...just a bunch of anti-CEDU kids and adults alike with their views solidly in place bashing on a bunch of kids and adults who saw the programs as beneficial. No one accepts each others arguments, and weightless, hypocritical comments are being flung back and forth from both sides.
I agree with this to a point, but if you examine these threads closely you will see that the "program supporters" are usually the most most viscious ad hominem attackers and usually "empty both barrels" first.
It seems to me that the very people who claim to have benefitted from programs are the ones who show the most serious social/psychological maladaption and often attempt to victimize people who have been legitimately damaged by programs. Coincidentally, re-victimizing children is a big part of "program philosophy."
It is also no surprise that the programs turn out rigid, dogmatic automaton "graduates" that are undying sycophants drilled to defend the program by attacking its detractors. I've witnessed this training first-hand.
Where do you think 15 year old kids develop talking points like "Without the program, I'd be dead, in jail or insane," or "You didn't embrace the program's virtues because you are a weak, sick individual"?
Doesn't anyone have something real to debate about?"
This subject is very real. Although there is often not much "meaningful debate" on the surface, it is the jewels to be plucked from the stories of those who have experience with CEDU and other programs that merit reading these threads. I often find very interesting academic discussion lying beneath the surface of the rancor. It takes a trained eye and some critical thought, but it is, I assure you, there for any thinking person to see.
-
Oh, I definitely agree that there is much meaningful debate to be plucked from every thread. The thing is, it always seems to be the same small group of people who actually dive in and pluck it. I just wish that more people would do that, instead of just lashing out at those who do. But hey, I guess I'm sort of wishing for the moon, so I'll be thankful for the people who actually do like to make solid, respectful arguments.
-
Where do you think 15 year old kids develop talking points like "Without the program, I'd be dead, in jail or insane," or "You didn't embrace the program's virtues because you are a weak, sick individual"?
I hear that, and the sad part is, I've heard that come out of more parent's mouths than of those graduates. My own parents even..."you can't be upset with us, because if we hadn't sent you there, you'd be dead or in jail..."
-
On 2005-10-10 09:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Where do you think 15 year old kids develop talking points like "Without the program, I'd be dead, in jail or insane," or "You didn't embrace the program's virtues because you are a weak, sick individual"?
I hear that, and the sad part is, I've heard that come out of more parent's mouths than of those graduates. My own parents even..."you can't be upset with us, because if we hadn't sent you there, you'd be dead or in jail...""
yeah, but you EXPECT to hear it from parents. they need continuing justification for their expenditures and obvious failures in raising their kids. there's something really freaky when you hear it come from a kid who has obviously been programmed to repeat it like a mantra.
-
On 2005-10-10 12:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-10 09:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Where do you think 15 year old kids develop talking points like "Without the program, I'd be dead, in jail or insane," or "You didn't embrace the program's virtues because you are a weak, sick individual"?
I hear that, and the sad part is, I've heard that come out of more parent's mouths than of those graduates. My own parents even..."you can't be upset with us, because if we hadn't sent you there, you'd be dead or in jail...""
yeah, but you EXPECT to hear it from parents. they need continuing justification for their expenditures and obvious failures in raising their kids. there's something really freaky when you hear it come from a kid who has obviously been programmed to repeat it like a mantra."
From one parents point of view, I dont need to justify the expense and I dont see any failures just people who have wandered off course. My main focus are my kids and how well (or not well) they are doing before and after entering the program. If a child is doing well we should all embrace them and support their decisions whether they have gone to a program or not as long as their life is not self destructive or harmful to others. If a child is not doing well we should seek ways to help them.
If you feel you need to call parents failures because they are asking others for help when they see their children suffering you should not. People who ask for help typically do so because they care and they recognize the need, it is nothing to be ashamed of, in fact it is just the opposite. The alternative is to do nothing and turn your back on the problem.
-
On 2005-10-10 09:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Where do you think 15 year old kids develop talking points like "Without the program, I'd be dead, in jail or insane," or "You didn't embrace the program's virtues because you are a weak, sick individual"?
I hear that, and the sad part is, I've heard that come out of more parent's mouths than of those graduates. My own parents even..."you can't be upset with us, because if we hadn't sent you there, you'd be dead or in jail...""
In some cases they may be right, their kids would be dead. The talking points come from whom ever they have been exposed to (good or bad) like all talking points do. You learn from who you admire and are exposed to whether it is a drug dealer. parent, peer or school advisor etc.
-
On 2005-10-10 12:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-10 09:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Where do you think 15 year old kids develop talking points like "Without the program, I'd be dead, in jail or insane," or "You didn't embrace the program's virtues because you are a weak, sick individual"?
I hear that, and the sad part is, I've heard that come out of more parent's mouths than of those graduates. My own parents even..."you can't be upset with us, because if we hadn't sent you there, you'd be dead or in jail...""
yeah, but you EXPECT to hear it from parents. they need continuing justification for their expenditures and obvious failures in raising their kids. there's something really freaky when you hear it come from a kid who has obviously been programmed to repeat it like a mantra."
And I've often found that in this point in my life it is a waste of energy to argue the hypothetical, anyway. How would I/we know either way for certain? I could have been better off. I could have been worse off. Best to just move on when it comes to entertaing that notion.
-
Amen to that.
-
Here's the latest:
http://www.santafewaldorf.org/newsletter.html (http://www.santafewaldorf.org/newsletter.html)
Guess what?? As of "early October" 2006, Rudy Bentz is no longer at Waldorf School Santa Fe. Where next??
-
good work.
-
He's hitting the lecture circuit with the ASR program shill Dave Marcus, who now holds himself out as a "adolescent behavior expert" like Rudy.
Between the two of them they have exactly zero education in the field of psychology. But, hey, why let that stop 'em?
Rudy is a seasoned child abuser and he probably wasn't getting his "fix" working with those "normal" kids, so he has to go out looking for "troubled teens" to abuse for fun and profit.
-
Is Rudy still in Santa Fe? He was from my time. Ugh!
-
Yes. He's a Principal at a Native American school.
-
where is the michael allgood ?
a danielle croaked from meth while in witness protection
john padgett and michael cruciano drug mules for the cult
melzer pimping in lompoc
rudy joined cedu when ?
all the sheep are delusional and in deep denial
demagogues or ?
-
Rudy joined CEDU in '79 or '80.
-
"From one parents point of view, I dont need to justify the expense and I dont see any failures just people who have wandered off course. My main focus are my kids and how well (or not well) they are doing before and after entering the program. If a child is doing well we should all embrace them and support their decisions whether they have gone to a program or not as long as their life is not self destructive or harmful to others. If a child is not doing well we should seek ways to help them.
If you feel you need to call parents failures because they are asking others for help when they see their children suffering you should not. People who ask for help typically do so because they care and they recognize the need, it is nothing to be ashamed of, in fact it is just the opposite. The alternative is to do nothing and turn your back on the problem."
My parents beat me-yelled at me-verbally abused me- they didn't ask for help they were forced to deal with the problem that they created! Maybe some parents are like you, but many were like mine. I SURVIVED CEDU. My parents created the problem that was sent to CEDU.
-
I was about to say WTF? but I realized you were responding to a quote from that Who guy. good luck with that.
Anybody google Rudy lately?
Here's the latest rock he crawled under:
http://www.rubinedu.com/team/bentz.html (http://www.rubinedu.com/team/bentz.html)
Also, latest website he posted to, not super recent, but maybe you can leave a message to the Teachers College Record readers about what a shitbag he is and put his scholarly musings about Native Americans in perspective for them:
http://www.tcrecord.org/Discussion.asp? ... omid=53693 (http://www.tcrecord.org/Discussion.asp?i=5&aid=0&rid=0&dtid=12&vdpid=2682&fromid=53693)
-
This is where Mr. Bentz is working today:
Santa Fe Indian School:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Indian_School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Indian_School)
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:y0 ... us&strip=1 (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:y0lTGGgTQtQJ:www.sfis.k12.nm.us/EmergencyContact.htm+rudy+bentz,+santa+fe&hl=en&client=firefox-a&gl=us&strip=1)
Gifted & Talented Coordinator - Rudy Bentz - (505) 989-6330
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:WB ... us&strip=1 (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:WBAE1FzQRhYJ:www.sfis.k12.nm.us/HomeworkHotline.htm+rudy+bentz,+santa+fe&hl=en&client=firefox-a&gl=us&strip=1)
Rudy Bentz
rbentz@sfis.k12.nm.us