Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 17, 2005, 04:10:00 PM
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Well, it's official. The owners/operators are making bank while their staff is qualified for public assistance (food stamps). And people wonder why kids are getting shortchanged in these facilities?
Private-run teen detention workers paid less
By Kathleen Chapman
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 17, 2005
Workers who guard and mentor teens in privately run programs for teen offenders make so little that some qualify for food stamps and other aid, according to a state report released Friday.
The typical worker in a private residential center for troubled teens makes $18,663 a year, thousands less than employees in similar state-run programs. But the executives who run private programs under state contract are doing fine ? taking home higher salaries on average than their counterparts in state government, the study found.
Read Article Here (under Breaking News)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org)
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This isn't breaking news, that's for sure.
Everyone who has been through a program knows the bottom of the barrel types that get those jobs. Parents pay tens of thousands of dollars to employ people who make less than fast food workers. Strange, isnt it?
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I am fucking astonished :roll:
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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The lower the wage, the higher the risk of abuse of power.
Glad the article is "out there" ... maybe some parents will think twice about the high potential for abuse in these places.
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On 2005-09-18 18:23:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"When I started at Eckerd Youth Alternatives I was paid 20,000 a year. This included automatic medical benifits, room and board at work, housing at no cost off work, and a clothing allowance on a quarterly basis.
Three Springs we got 21,000 dollars a year housing for 6 months and medical benifits after 3 months. It wasn't till recently when they bounced up everyones pay grades meaning everyone got a 2000 dollar raise no matter what level of pay they were at. It was nice for me I went from C2 at 22,000 to C3 the same day the cost of living increases came through getting a 3,700 dollar raise in one day. I was not complaining at all.
However, its not so much the lack of money that causes abuses. Its the culture of the facility. Either its a good healthy caring program, or its a sick ass place full of wierdos. EYA where I was paid less was a caring program filled with dedicated staff. Three Springs where I was paid more, at least in the end was most definitely not a very caring place. There go the people. I must follow them for I am their leader.
--Alexandre Ledru-Rollin
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Well, I think we can all agree that the ones laughing all the way to the bank are the owners of these private programs AND the ed cons and parent referral services who prey upon desperate parents to put "heads in the beds".
Remember, none of these programs and facilities could make a dime if not for the children who pay with their blood, sweat and tears for those fancy cars, homes, airplanes and boats registed to the fat-cat owners. It's downright disgusting!
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Do a google on Mike Watson the founder of Three Springs. He made out like a bandit.
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Yeah, well, I think I'm turning into one of those cynics. I've worked at EYA for 16 months now - this shit's emotionally hard, pay is low, and the scheduling sucks (5 days in the woods with maybe 15 minutes total away from group a day when breaks are available, up to a month if on a river trip) - at least other people get to go home at night to recoup from their jobs/have a life of their own.
I've definitely got better at my job but there is so little reward. I'm basically in the woods 24/5, most of the time alone with a bunch of delinquet youth, only 2 days a week actually working with another counselor. I swear I think my mentality has detiorated to that of a middle schooler's considering they're my primary social interaction!
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Where I have worked 90-100% turnover every year was typical. HLA fired or let go over 20% of their staff in the past three months alone. This is after stripping health benefits, overtime and their "guaranteed" raises.
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On 2006-05-14 16:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm basically in the woods 24/5, most of the time alone with a bunch of delinquet youth."
And they let you live because... :???:
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Don't get me wrong, I do care for the kids and think its a good program (it actually has a 3 week training program compared to other programs' couple day things before even working full out with the kids as well as ongoing trainings) it's just DRAINING. Come on, what parent even spends that much time with their kid once they start kindergarten? (BTW this job is VERY effective birth control). It definitely takes a certain kind of person to make it here (caring and/or slightly crazed for even taking on the feat - everyone else is weeded out rather quickly!).
I don't even really see how we are a wilderness therapy program. Sure, we live and sleep in the woods in "tent"ish type structures (a wee bit more permanent than those things people take camping - almost cabinish); but there's still alot of time spent indoors. We only actually cookout once a session (every 5 weeks - used to be 2 days a week), river trips about 1-2 times a year. Maybe I'm just getting bored and therefore cynical. I definitely want a job with little responsibility next as compared to being responsible for the physical/ social/ emotional/ medical/ psychological/ blah blah blah wellbeing of 12 teens at a time (can I make a living off off - say fingerpainting!!??)
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Well, you must be helping run a good, or at least a not-terribly-abusive program. If such a thing can be said to exist.
Otherwise, 12 teens on one counselor would have fragged you by now, especially on a river trip. "He fell in! No, I don't know what those marks around his neck are..."
Or maybe I'm just thinking wishfully. Sorry, you'll get that attitude here.
Why don't you tell us a little bit more about what you do and what EYA is currently like?
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On 2006-05-14 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Don't get me wrong, I do care for the kids and think its a good program (it actually has a 3 week training program compared to other programs' couple day things before even working full out with the kids as well as ongoing trainings) it's just DRAINING. Come on, what parent even spends that much time with their kid once they start kindergarten? (BTW this job is VERY effective birth control). It definitely takes a certain kind of person to make it here (caring and/or slightly crazed for even taking on the feat - everyone else is weeded out rather quickly!).
I don't even really see how we are a wilderness therapy program. Sure, we live and sleep in the woods in "tent"ish type structures (a wee bit more permanent than those things people take camping - almost cabinish); but there's still alot of time spent indoors. We only actually cookout once a session (every 5 weeks - used to be 2 days a week), river trips about 1-2 times a year. Maybe I'm just getting bored and therefore cynical. I definitely want a job with little responsibility next as compared to being responsible for the physical/ social/ emotional/ medical/ psychological/ blah blah blah wellbeing of 12 teens at a time (can I make a living off off - say fingerpainting!!??)"
Hey, hang in there you are doing great work. I remember 3 of my daughter?s wilderness counselors by name and remember the amazing work and patience you guys had for her and the others, too bad you don?t get to see the out come (down the road) when they are doing well. I know the pay stinks for the entire industry. Social work is another area that is grossly under funded. Until people smarten up and see the service you people provide and the results/effects you have on others I don?t see much of a change, though, counseling/social work has always been tough on the wallet.
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LOL! "He fell in! No, I don't know what those marks around his neck are..." Sorry I find that statement amusing - I have never known any actual instances of abuse. Though I did have a camper shit her pants on our way to showers one day. She tried playing some bs abuse card saying we didn't get her to her needs fast enough (we were actually held up b/c of her behaviors) and complained she had to walk in her poo (we were on our way to showers!!!)
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I really wish I did see the results way down the road. I have few graduates who keep in contact but most that I here about isn't because of their success
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By the way, review trips ALWAYS have a minimum of 3 staff to ensure safety. I envy the days when so many are working together...
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Yeah , like most industries, negative news moves quick and gets the most attention. The kids that move on and do well dont rattle the cage much. Where you working? My daughter went to SUWS of the carolinas a few years ago.
[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-05-14 17:46 ]
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High child welfare worker turnover rates affect states all over the nation. According to one report by the General Accounting Office, "next to funding, states report that staffing is the most serious issue facing their child welfare systems. In response to an APWA survey, 90 percent of states reported difficulty recruiting and retaining caseworkers" (GAO, 1995).
For example, in the early 1990s Prince William County, Virginia reported a 60 percent turnover rate among child welfare staff. In 1997 Broward County, Florida, reported an 85 percent turnover rate. In 1996 the turnover among Massachusetts Department of Social Services workers was 300 employees per year, with Taunton County reporting 100 percent turnover.
This seems to be prevalent throughout the entire industry!! We need to figure out a way to increase the base salary or find some incentives to keep these people, our kids and families need them.
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I tell ya! I agree full heartedly. I work for Eckerd Youth Alternatives. They actually have tried different incentives things including bonuses/ raise the base pay a couple times since I've been here -- but, like anyone who works here could tell you ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY! I could make 3-4x more a year in a minimum wage paying job working this many hours. It is hard making so little though even with not having to worry about housing costs or food 5 days a week - I still have other bills/expenditures that once paid leave me with nothing. But the killer thing is the HOURS. 120 A WEEK! I get no break at night, I can't just go off whenever and chill with my friends (what few I actually have time to maintain relationships with), I have to be constantly on guard, I don't even hang out in the closest towns to where I work in case I see some camper on a home visit - so really, I don't even get a break when I'm off (not to mention that when I am off I need to spend hours doing paperwork or planning educational activities for times that the teaching staff aren't covering).
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This program is actually not to far (geographically) from SUWS of the Carolinas (less than 2 hours I think). Funny thing is, I interviewed with them before choosing this job way back when. Their recruiter actually emailed me today asking how things were going with Eckerd. I'm tired. The idea behind this job is great. But I need change. These hours kill. I actually used to be a very positive and optimistic person... not so much anymore.
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On 2006-05-14 18:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This program is actually not to far (geographically) from SUWS of the Carolinas (less than 2 hours I think). Funny thing is, I interviewed with them before choosing this job way back when. Their recruiter actually emailed me today asking how things were going with Eckerd. I'm tired. The idea behind this job is great. But I need change. These hours kill. I actually used to be a very positive and optimistic person... not so much anymore."
So surrogate parenting sucks, huh? Parents don't get to clock out and recoup either.
I appreciated your comment about it being good 'birth control'. :lol: I think all kids should work a minimum of one semester each year of high school in a daycare center with infants and two year olds. Could work a damn sight better than zero tolerance. They could pick up condoms at the door on their way out.
1:12 sure seems a high ratio when working with distressed kids.
24/5, low pay, sounds like a ripe situation for restraints for convenience? What are 'counselors' trained to do when they reached their limit? Are the 'counselors' licensed?
Why don't the kids maintain contact?
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On 2006-05-14 17:55:00, TheWho wrote:
"High child welfare worker turnover rates affect states all over the nation. According to one report by the General Accounting Office, "next to funding, states report that staffing is the most serious issue facing their child welfare systems. In response to an APWA survey, 90 percent of states reported difficulty recruiting and retaining caseworkers" (GAO, 1995).
For example, in the early 1990s Prince William County, Virginia reported a 60 percent turnover rate among child welfare staff. In 1997 Broward County, Florida, reported an 85 percent turnover rate. In 1996 the turnover among Massachusetts Department of Social Services workers was 300 employees per year, with Taunton County reporting 100 percent turnover.
This seems to be prevalent throughout the entire industry!! We need to figure out a way to increase the base salary or find some incentives to keep these people, our kids and families need them.
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It's not just base pay. It is also that trained and educated professionals who are sold a bill of goods before they sign on quickly realize that the methods used produce poor results and that the treatment of the patients is unethical and ineffective. In a matter of days or weeks they begin to see the true nature of the problem and choose to move on to a position that does not compromise their ethics.
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On 2006-05-14 20:31:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Now Now Deborah you know I have answered those questions along time ago. Let the anon come to those conclusions on their own. Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
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Yes dear, just wondering what, if anything, has changed.
Whadda ya think about teens volunteering in daycare centers?
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I don't think parents realize just how underqualified the general staff are at these places.
No legitimate psychiatric/hospital/medical facility would hire these people to do anything more than take vital signs.
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Why do them for even vitals? You'd think they could afford a decent nursing assistant.
I sure as hell wouldnt want Randal Hinton or anyone with his attitude (or the prevailing attitude of most tough love types it seems) taking vitals or doing triage.
:scared: yeah, we need them telling people with chest pains theyre sissies or people with heatstroke symtpoms to shut up...
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I don't know why this sub standard wage surprises anyone. It starts from the cradle. Ask a child care provider what they are earning. They are at minimum wage. No benefits.
Guess who's making the big bucks? The daycare owner. Someone who has absolutely no interaction with our children.
The lousy warehousing of our kids starts from birth. ANY time you institutionalize kids, you rarely get quality care providers.
It is a sad, but un-refuted, truth.
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Im just glad people are willing to admit it finally.
Well, relieved people can accept the reality, not so much glad that some of us care for children less than our dogs or automobiles.
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On 2006-05-15 03:59:00, Truth Searcher wrote:
"I don't know why this sub standard wage surprises anyone. It starts from the cradle. Ask a child care provider what they are earning. They are at minimum wage. No benefits.
Guess who's making the big bucks? The daycare owner. Someone who has absolutely no interaction with our children.
The lousy warehousing of our kids starts from birth. ANY time you institutionalize kids, you rarely get quality care providers.
It is a sad, but un-refuted, truth."
Good point, Truth Searcher,
Daycare
School system
YMCA
Social workers
Counselors
If you look you will see that in almost all areas of employment the people who are directly working with the kids are very poorly paid, this has been a problem for decades and parent teacher groups have been working to turn this around.
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"Low pay for entry level positions is to be expected"
ummm... yes thats true if someone is flipping pizzas or burgers .... or cleaning offices ...
But ... when it comes to the care of another human being, I STRONGLY disagree.
You know the old adage .... you get what you pay for. Well unfortunately it holds true in regard to those who care for children too.
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"Wilderness Quest expects nothing short of complete accountability from our employees, and we value their unique devotion to making an enduring difference in the lives of our students. Along with salaries ranging from $3,750 to $5,000 dollars per month ($45,000 to $60,000 per year) and a benefits package that includes medical, dental, and life insurance coverage, Wilderness Quest offers a support and training structure aimed at maximizing your effectiveness in the field so you can enjoy your lifestyle out of the field."
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Anon~
From the New York Times:
The salaries paid to child care workers are ''embarrassing,'' said James F. Purcell, executive director of the Council of Family and Child Caring Agencies. He said that ''most of the time no one wants to accept these demanding and difficult jobs'' for such inadequate pay.
''Why should they when the average starting salary for child care workers in our system was $19,151?'' he asked at a public hearing here. ''Why work as a child care worker and risk injury, when you can make more working at Home Depot?''
Full article
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9649C8B63 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E02E5DB1131F931A35750C0A9649C8B63)
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Actually, this was my college major.
"It's not just base pay. It is also that trained and educated professionals who are sold a bill of goods before they sign on quickly realize that the methods used produce poor results and that the treatment of the patients is unethical and ineffective. In a matter of days or weeks they begin to see the true nature of the problem and choose to move on to a position that does not compromise their ethics."
" I don't think parents realize just how underqualified the general staff are at these places."
"24/5, low pay, sounds like a ripe situation for restraints for convenience?"
Actually, there hasn't been a restraint in my group in nearly 11 months since a camper attacked another.
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How do you do that convenient box quote thing?
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Click "Quote", right below the text box.
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Technicians take vital signs and report them to the nurse. Technicians do not interpret vital signs, and they certainly do not write progress notes!
At PCS, the staff write SOAP notes and other progress notes. At a legitimate facility, this could never happen! Only licensed staff (RN, MD, PT, ect...) may write progress notes.
Not only that, a child's advancement in the PCS program is based on these progress notes plus whatever other claims the staff may have regarding the pt's "progress".
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On 2006-05-17 00:07:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"Technicians take vital signs and report them to the nurse. Technicians do not interpret vital signs, and they certainly do not write progress notes!
At PCS, the staff write SOAP notes and other progress notes. At a legitimate facility, this could never happen! Only licensed staff (RN, MD, PT, ect...) may write progress notes.
Not only that, a child's advancement in the PCS program is based on these progress notes plus whatever other claims the staff may have regarding the pt's "progress".
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Trippy ain't it.
At some major facilities counselors meet with family service workers who are not certified therapists and come up with treatment plans for specific treatment issues.
Now that is scary.