Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: the wet noodle on September 06, 2005, 05:06:00 PM
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I think that one of the worst things about Straight is how they tricked our parents into thinking that Straight was good for us. To this day my parents do not understand the affect that Straight had on me. Straight preyed on the fears of desperate parents who (for the most part)just wanted to have a normal kid.
B4 Straight I was a punk 15 year-old kid who was in a lot of pain...both from puberty and from drug abuse. Unfortunately my parents found Straight instead of another more sane treatment center. Straight told them not to believe me if I said anything negative about the place. I was just being a manipulative druggie after all... Straight even told them to report me (for my own good of course) if I ever seemed like I was having "trouble."
Straight made me fear my parents...parents are supposed to be protectors...and they made them the enemy.
Even today 18 years later as I start to work through all of the crap that went on in that place...my parents still cannot comprehend what happened to me or what they forced me to endure. One of my biggest issues is fear of abandonement...and every damn shrink that I see tells me that it is b/c my parents abandoned me when I was 15 when I needed them the most...
I do not blame my parents...it was Straight...they turned my own blood against me(for profit) by making them think they were helping me... That is just soooooooo EVIL!!!!!!!!!!
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yeah, but face it---our families had to be dysfunctional to some degree for our parents to even considere incarcerating us in Straight. And they had to be idiots to sit through part of an Open Meeting and think that Straight was an appropriate place for anyone, druggie teen or not....they must take their share of the blame for abdicating their parental rights to a bunch of power-crazed kooks. The fact that they put us in Straight is abuse in and of itself, and it is neglect if they claim they were ignorant of what Straight was really about. To put your child in the hands of sickos like the people who ran Straight, whether Newton, Petermann, Riddile, ad nauseum, is to abondon your child to the clutches of child abusers. There is no excuse for it--they are either evil, criminally negligent, or just plain stupid.
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Or they were deperate and scared and did not know how to deal with an out of control teenager and were told that only Straight could help...look I am not trying to make excuses for my (our your) parents. I am just saying that our parent were brainwashed too...and just at a time when they were the most vlunerable...
Plus, I was a punk kid with a drug problem...I can only imagine what it would have been like to be one of those folks without a problem whose drug of choice was eating flowers (yes I recall a 13 year old with that issue). So I guess my personal experience shapes my opinion...
F Straight!!!!!!!11
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I actually just posted something about this today....
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =80#129640 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11489&forum=44&start=80#129640)
Finding this forum has made one thing very clear to me....my dad was a victim and was brainwashed to an extent...straight exploited his worst fears as a parent. My dad told me about what went on in parent raps. Parents were confronted and some of the same dogma bullshit that was forced onto us, was forced on to them as well...but on a much smaller scale. And knowing my dad the way I do...for all his mistakes, he is and always was, trying to do what he thought was right (yeah he was often dead wrong about me). And have no doubt, it took years to get on speaking terms with my dad.
My step monster on the other hand fell into the category of parent that just didn?t want to deal with me anymore and definitely wanted to dump me off on someone else...and I'll never be able to forgive her for her role in my captivity in straight. It was her idea to begin with. And to this day, I will not speak to or go near that woman! I still to this day see her as evil itself.
And there are some abusive parents out there, before straight entered the picture, who's act of putting a their kid in straight amounts to nothing less than another act of abuse itself.
My point really, is that there are different kinds of parents out there, not all were evil parents, but yeah no question some were into straights bullshit all the way, accomplices of Straight's evil, no doubt about it.
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I was also just trying to make the point that even today 17 years sober with a great relationship with my family (I am very lucky) it is extremely lonely to know that my parents will never understand my pain...
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I doubt that you had a "drug problem" at age 15---or at least that you had a serious enough drug problem to warrant incarceration in an in-patient (I use the term 'patient' loosely--very loosely), lockdown facility of any kind, much less one as brutal as Straight.
Sure, our parents may have been desperate---but they fucked up to have gotten to that point in the first place. If they swallowed the line that "only Straight could help" then they were ignorant of the truth and too lazy to find the facts, or at least seek out a second opinion. I wouldn't have an ingrown toenail removed with out a second opinion, and I sure as hell wouldn't send my kids off to some warehouse without getting one, no matter how "out of control" they were. The parents that plead "what else were we to do? You were out of control and soon to be dead!" are merely tryint to hide their guilt and complicity in the abuses we suffered. If they knew what Straight was and sent us there, they are abusers. If they didn't know what Straight was and sent us there, they are criminally negligent as parents. For a parent to subject a child to what we were subjected to is criminal, pure and simple. For a parent to buy into the lies that Straight's salesmen shoveled them is stupidity. For a parent to not investigate a program they are considering sending their kids to is criminally negligent.
I understand your desire to 'clear the air' between your parents and you, but you do yourself a disservice by not recognizing their complicity in the abuses we suffered. They were charged legally, if not morally, with ensuring our well-being until we reached adulthood, and by putting us in Striaght, they faileed miserably.
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Anon said-----"To put your child in the hands of sickos like the people who ran Straight, whether Newton, Petermann, Riddile, ad nauseum, is to abondon your child to the clutches of child abusers. There is no excuse for it--they are either evil, criminally negligent, or just plain stupid."---------
With hindsight anon---every thing you say makes sense, but all I can think of when you say this...back in 1984 (in my case)---how widely known was it that the people involved were nothing less than low life criminals? I guess my question is---when did all the facts about those people really start coming to light in a way parents could have found out? A lot of lawsuits were settled so quickly and quietly...and its not like straight would have provided one once of incriminating evidence to suggest that it's "leadership" consisted of a bunch of child abusers, scam artists, and low life crooks! Hell, the other programs still get away with the same child abuse because the "truth" is so closely guarded....
Anyway----no matter how you look at it those monsters ruined a lot of lives, parent/child relationships, and there is no excuse in the world for the crimes that the monsters got away with?..and still do....even today.
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In '82, when I went in, the knowledge of the abuses of Straight was not nearly as widespread as it was later, but this still is no excuse, in my opinion. Just seeing the brainwashed kids singing nursrey rhymes and making goofy hand gestures should have been a tip-off that things weren't quite right at Straight. The blatantly obvious lies and fucked up rules and regulations would have been 'red flags' to all but the most gullible of parents. I wouldn't send a kid to a summer camp without investigating it more thoroughly than my parents investigated Straight. For them to buy into the bullshit that Straight spouted is inexcusable, and for them to go along with it makes them complicit in our abuse, in my opinion.
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wetnoodle said----"I was also just trying to make the point that even today 17 years sober with a great relationship with my family (I am very lucky) it is extremely lonely to know that my parents will never understand my pain..."------
Yeah I hear you. Sadly even the most compassionate and understanding parent (like my dad) who is willing to listen to my side of the abuse cannot possibly comprehend what it was really like. Ironically, I have spared my father some of the details for his own good...It would kill him to know what he thought was supposed to protect me actually damaged me so deeply. So I carry the weight all by myself and yeah its damn lonely...but it helps to post here.
My step-monster...If I thought I had an ounce of self control I would really let her have it...but then again since the woman is heartless anyway there really would be no point would there?
But the most horrible part of this...not only were many innocent teenagers destroyed, but many parent/child relationships and families were permanently destroyed by straight as well.
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anon, there is no doubt that straight would never have gotten away with abuse for so many years if parents would have wised up and paid more attention to the red flags.
But anon...think about one thing, and god I'm not making excuses for certain miserable excuses for parents...but talking to my dad recently---one thing was painfully obvious....somehow they brainwashed him too, how I dont know, but he told me enough about the parent raps to set off alarms in my head real fast, and I know you know exactly what I mean, and you know how easy it is to dismiss the obvious when you are brainwashed. Brainwashed parents are needed to make the scam work in the first place! For exactly the reasons you say!
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-22 23:19 ]
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I think that any parent with half a brain would have realized it was jive before they even went to the first parent rap.
Case in point--my parents tried to recruit a "druggie friend's" parents, and they were laughed at. There is no way in hell that a responsible parent would put their child in Straight. Our parents were failures, our families were dysfunctional before we first sat in an intake room. They were intellectually lazy, and chose to believe Straight's comforting lies that we were the source of all family problems. Our parents were NOT good parents to begin with (or at least mine weren't, and I find it hard to believe that they were the only ones) and became worse through their involvement with Straight. I stand by my statement that they were either complicit in our abuse or they were incompetent as parents. To even consider such drastic steps to 'remedy' what was normal adolescent rebellion, is by any standard, gross negligence on their part.
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Anon---one other thing, for what its worth...I agree that some parents were basically complict, negligent and criminal along with straight...my stepmoster was a good example of what you were saying----there were just different types of parents...my dad was different....maybe you parents were more the abusive type...and all types were probably brainwashed. I imagine that the piece of shit parents were much easier to suck in because they were looking to unload their kid in the first place...which supports your argument by the way. Parents like my dad were easy to suck in because they meant well, were vulnerable, and scared.
BUT now with the internet...and so much information out there, it is much easier to get information...although most I fear is false advertising on a very deceptive and misleading level....back then that information just wasn't floating around like it is now.
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Oops, that last post was me!
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-22 23:20 ]
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Here's the problem as I see it. Granted, in the `70's, my parents were just not normal. Even though The Seed was a pretty big fad there for a couple of years, most people just thought we all were nuts, including the cop across the street.
But I think that's changing. These days, people think nothing of accepting a psych dx for their kid, drugging him or her and then, when (inevitably) the kid gets old enough to defend for themselves a little bit, tossing them in a rehab or "emotional growth" school or some such.
While I agree that our parents were crazy and very much at fault for falling for these nut jobs, I'm also afraid that more and more parents are falling pray to the same sort of scam. When it comes right down to it, the public perception that it takes a team of shrinks and a truckload of psyche drugs to raise a kid is gowing. It's almost the majority by now, I guess. That's a big problem!
So, what do we do about it but laugh at the idiots? Li'll public humiliation in order, ya think?
A faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.
Arthur C. Clark
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They get them (the parents) just when they are at their lowest...just when they are at their most vulnerable. Think about it...who is more desperate then a parent who thinks (true or not)that their kids are heading toward destruction and death?
Of course there are always the mean, irresponsible uncaring parents...but lazy? I am not so sure...think about it..."in town" parents were forced to take strangers home to their house every night... They had to attend that horrible open meeting... they had to attend parent raps. That may not seem like such a big deal to us...but I bet that open meeting was not such a hit with the parents and siblings...
I tend to think that the lazy parents would just send their kids to military school or some other in-patient place that didn't require them to do squat... my folks fell for the place hook, line, and sinker...they actually LIKED meeting all of the kids from all over...my dad still asks me today about the kids he took home...
I tend to think that most parents didn't have a clue about what the place was really like. Mine sure a hell didn't. Call it willfull ignorance if you like... I will choose to call it brainwashing...
It was PURPOSELY hidden from them...do you recall the air conditioner mysteriously turning on prior to open meeting? That was just the tip of the iceberg...if anyone ever said anything bad about the place in front of a parent...well you know what would happen..."3 and 14" baby! The worst offense in that place (short of getting high) was talking to the parents about what Straight was really like.
What hurts the most today is that my parents who I love dearly...well they screwed up and let themselves fall victim to a horrible scam...I have forgiven them...but it is still so fucking lonely and frustrating...probably the worst part of Straight was how it ripped my family apart...
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On 2005-09-06 15:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
Parents like my dad were easy to suck in because they meant well, were vulnerable, and scared.
Sure, there were parents that were scared and 'meant well', but to just fall for the first snake-oil salesman that comes their way smacks of gross incompetence and negligence on their part. It is excusable for a parent to be concerned, even 'scared' for the safety and well-being of their children, but it is in no way excusable for them to send their children to Straight or a Straightlike program. That is negligence to a criminal degree, perhaps brought on by laziness, perhaps by ignorance, but either way, it illustrates their incompetence as parents.
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-22 23:20 ]
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Wet Noodle, you make an excellent point regarding parents who were host parents at the 'foster homes'. They had to know that what was going on was abusive---if they didn't think that it was abuse, they are too fucked up to be trusted with a houseplant, much less an adolescent human being. The foster parents were well aware what was going on in the building, if from no other source than the visible evidence of abuse brought into their homes by newcomers each night. Going along with food and sleep deprivation, physical abuse and humiliation (which I recall more than one foster parent participating in with gusto)is fucking criminal, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it. For a parent to claim "Oh ,jeez, I was brainwashed by Straight, too", well, that's fine, but it doesn't make them any less incompetent as a parent or an adult. We don't let mentally incompetent people drive cars or own guns, and we don't allow them custody of their children if they are incapable of performing their duties as parents. The willful negligence, never mind the abuse they collaberated in, is, in and of itself, evidence that they had no business raising children--their own or anybody else's. Whether their motivation was spite, hatred or revenge, or even with the best of intentions, they demonstrated their lack of ability to be trusted as guardians of minors. They were at best incapable of being parents, at worst, criminal child abusers. For a parent to claim "innocence by reason of brainwashing" is not that different than a Nazi concentration camp guard to say "I was only following orders". Not an excuse, in my mind.
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Anon - Although I will always see my dad as a victim, preyed on by those monsters, I have to admit it is difficult how to imagine, how on earth they fell for it, before the brainwashing started....
But thoughout history...people always have fallen for snakeoil salesmen and scams of all sorts. Not defending it mind you....I guess until I'm a parent myself I will not be able to fathom, aside from their obvious vunlerability, how they cant see through the bullshit before the brainwashing starts. I dont have an answer for that.
But, if a parent say went through the trouble of visiting straight to see what the program was like...what did they see? They were introduced to high phasers who were already completely brainwashed who claimed to be happy, healthy, and claimed that straight "saved them." They met other parents that claim their child had miraculously changed and their familty was happy and health, all thanks to straight. And I remember visiting parents in open meetings...and we all know that the open meeting was nothing less than a big pretty show put on for the parents to facilitate the big fat lie. The lengths Straight went to, in order to deceive thousands is just mind boggling and an enormous injustice...to say the very least!
Who knows anon - will we ever know why people fall for bull shit scams? Beats me....clearly not every one has a very good bullshit radar.[ This Message was edited by: nonconformistlaw on 2005-09-06 16:09 ]
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-22 23:20 ]
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NCL, granted, Straight went to great lengths to facilitate the lie, and I am in no way excusing or minimizing the role they played, but don't you think that taking such drastic steps as putting your child in Straight would warrant a more thorough exploration than attending the dog-and-pony show that was an Open Meeting. Seems like it would be "too good to be true"--"You mean all I have to do is sign my kid in and everything will be great in six months?" For a parent to fall for that kind of crap, no matter how well orchestrated the deceit, smacks of an inability to distinguish reality from fantasy. I mean, no matter how well it's advertised, a little caveat emptor is in order no matter what it is your buying, and for a parent to be deceived by an Open Meeting, like a Mongoloid at a magic show, is, to me, evidence that they are not fit to be custodial guardians of their children.
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I will say that if abuse that I have heard about that went on in some host homes occurred in my house when my parents were host parents...I would hope that would have woke them up. But when I was an oldcomer...things were actually very peaceful in my house (peaceful in comparison to how ugly things could get in straight...not a minute was truly peaceful)...never confrontation...just tons of "sharing our feelings." But I have to admit one thing that always bothered me... was the part about being locked into a room...because that in itself is irresponsible at best, dangerous at worst...(hello, what happens if there is a fire?).
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People believe what they want to believe... they see what they want to see... that is how brainwahsing works... the good brainwasher just sells them the thing that they want most in the world... in our case it was...
Best case "a happy healthy kid"
Worst case "a compliant kid"
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They sold my parenst a shattered, forever tormented 14 yr old stranger.
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Anon said-----"too good to be true"----- etc.
I agree with you here....I have said the same thing myself numerous times...There is no such thing as a quick fix, especially when you are talking about human beings. The obvious "too true good to be true" sales pitch would have instantly sent me running----but then again I have a pretty well developed bullshit radar. But people that get sucked into bullshit cults are usually very vulnerable or screwed up people to begin with.
Your right....how can anyone miss the well known too good to be true warning sign? But damn it, the same exact sales pitch continues to suck parents in to this day!!!! Why??? Sickning. Scary.
Straight sucks...god I hope one day they pay for all the lives they destroyed.
I have to go to school....real life calls.
::rainbow:: [ This Message was edited by: nonconformistlaw on 2005-09-06 16:27 ]
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Make all the excuses you want, if that makes you feel better, but the fact remains, our parents paricipated in abusing us and others, if they were host parents. Regardless of their intentions, good or ill, this demonstrates their incompetence, if not their culpablility.
Something as simple, yet potentially dangerous, as locking bedroom doors and windows, creating a safety hazrd, should be enough to indicate to any responsible adult that something is wrong, terribly wrong, with the program. To ignore it is to demonstrate their incompetenence or their criminal intent.
True healing within families disrupted or destroyed by Straight can not begin until the parents realize and admit their complicity in the abuse. Otherwise, it's just sweeping their responsibility under the rug, and any forgiveness is merely shallow, hollow platitudes. Only the truly repentent are worthy of forgiveness.
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On 2005-09-06 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I doubt that you had a "drug problem" at age 15---or at least that you had a serious enough drug problem to warrant incarceration in an in-patient (I use the term 'patient' loosely--very loosely), lockdown facility of any kind, much less one as brutal as Straight.
Sure, our parents may have been desperate---but they fucked up to have gotten to that point in the first place. If they swallowed the line that "only Straight could help" then they were ignorant of the truth and too lazy to find the facts, or at least seek out a second opinion. I wouldn't have an ingrown toenail removed with out a second opinion, and I sure as hell wouldn't send my kids off to some warehouse without getting one, no matter how "out of control" they were. The parents that plead "what else were we to do? You were out of control and soon to be dead!" are merely tryint to hide their guilt and complicity in the abuses we suffered. If they knew what Straight was and sent us there, they are abusers. If they didn't know what Straight was and sent us there, they are criminally negligent as parents. For a parent to subject a child to what we were subjected to is criminal, pure and simple. For a parent to buy into the lies that Straight's salesmen shoveled them is stupidity. For a parent to not investigate a program they are considering sending their kids to is criminally negligent.
I understand your desire to 'clear the air' between your parents and you, but you do yourself a disservice by not recognizing their complicity in the abuses we suffered. They were charged legally, if not morally, with ensuring our well-being until we reached adulthood, and by putting us in Striaght, they faileed miserably."
i's talkin' to my mom on the phone the other day and asked her if she knew what was goin' on in group, if she knew the way that people were treated. i asked her if she knew i was on sleep deprivation as well as other consequences and she said: she knew i was on suicide watch. i told her that was jus' staffs' spin on it. i was bein' deprived sleep as a way to make my mind weak. they wanted me to believe lies. i was never suicidal while i was in str8. i was suicidal when i was free from str8. i fantasized that the cops would come for me but i would shoot at them and i would take a fuckload of 'em out before they killed me. i understand the mutherfuckers who killed themselves. i jus' learned yesterday in the course of some heavy conversin' with my mom that she went with my dad to Steve Mathews funeral or memorial or somethin'
My mom told me she considers herself a failure as a parent.
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I have a 14 yr old. If I would ever put my child into a place, I would first have to know that at anytime I would be allowed to walk in and see my child to make sure she is doing fine. I also would wanna see where my child would be sleeping at night. I would wanna talk to the doctor first too. I interview doctors first anyways to learn about them and to make sure I trust them with the decisions they make for my children. I would make sure that the staff have children and doctors have children of thier own. Why would I want a doctor or staff helping me with problems they have not delt with first hand? These are things my mother says she regrets not doing before she sent me to Straight. She was irresponsible and she admits it.
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Anonymous poster, thank you for what you are saying here. I really appreciate it.
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Contrary to how it may look...I do not excuse my dad's decision to put my in straight, he made bad decisions with huge consequences, AND was vulnerable to straight's bullshit at the same time, not a doubt about it...there are many reasons he is accountable....I just think its just as important to acknowledge that our parents WERE brainwashed which DID play a role in our incarceration and helps to allow the abuse to continue. At the same time, it is equally important to acknowledge thier accountablility, whether its bad parenting, negligence, abuse, whatever the case may be.
There is a difference between making excuses and seeking to understand why something like this can happen in the first place. Seeking out an explaination for one big aspect (parental brainwahing) to a very fucked up situation does not intend (on my part) to disregard the obvious accountability of our parents (for bad decisions/bad parenting/etc).
I was just really trying to make a point that the parental brainwashing should be recognized. Sometimes its just really hard for me to be as clear as I want to be when my emotions are running so high.
Hey pirate----I mentioned worrying that the truth would just kill my dad (literallly, I worry he would actually have a serious decline in health) - - I told him a little about the restraining, which he had no clue went on, never heard of it in fact. He was shocked. So how on earth do you get a "well meaning" parent to admit they fucked up by putting you in straight?
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On 2005-09-06 14:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"In '82, when I went in, the knowledge of the abuses of Straight was not nearly as widespread as it was later, but this still is no excuse, in my opinion. Just seeing the brainwashed kids singing nursrey rhymes and making goofy hand gestures should have been a tip-off that things weren't quite right at Straight. The blatantly obvious lies and fucked up rules and regulations would have been 'red flags' to all but the most gullible of parents. I wouldn't send a kid to a summer camp without investigating it more thoroughly than my parents investigated Straight. For them to buy into the bullshit that Straight spouted is inexcusable, and for them to go along with it makes them complicit in our abuse, in my opinion."
Thank you. I totally agree. For 22 months of my program I was on 5th phase for a year of it. That should have been a big eye opener right there that something was wrong with that place. How about the scripted conversations we had to have during our "talks"? Is that shit right there just not weird? Being beltlooped and guarded while I talk to my mom? Nuts. You know after almost 2 years of being there I was running out of stuff to make amends for. Where was the real family therapy? Why did she not get it? I think it's because she did not want to "get it". How are one sided conversations even beneficial.
I know I did some mean things and perhaps a bit risky before I went in, but personally I am thinking that it was just easier for my mom to ship me off and let someone else deal with me.
Of course I feel guilty that she had to sell our home to keep me in that place, but on the other hand why didn't any red flags go up when she realized insurance didn't cover it?
I was an out of town kid and really I did have some great host parents, even still they had to have a clue as to all the bullshit that was going on since they were exposed to it daily.
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-22 23:21 ]
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On 2005-09-06 20:37:00, Withdraw wrote:
"My parents had to sell their motor home to keep me in there. I still get guilted by them for that..
Anyhow I agree , Why didnt think something was wrong when Insurance didnt cover it? What made them sell off stuff to keep paying people to abuse me more ?
It shocks me they didnt think any of it was wrong.. My wish lists .. The beltloop thing.. The people outside w/ protest signs.. The children yelling durng open meetings.. People being restrained by other children...The locks on the windows and doors should have been a giant SOS beckon....I use to get so afraid when we got locked in and the old commers put their beds against the doors / windows.. My countless requests for a withdraw... None of these were signs to my parenst there was a problem.
I do hold them accountable.I was betrayed in the deepest ways by my own family, Straight being top on that list.
just spelling edited , if there are more errors , so be it, lol [ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-06 20:38 ]"
Oh yes I've heard the guilt trips. A few years ago before I found these boards my step dad was drunk at my house rubbing it in my face about all the money that place costs, selling the house, moving to a HUD home. Finally I just blew up and told him they had no idea the shit I had been through there and how dare he bring it up all these years later.
I really think they just wanted to be done raising me. Yes they had to pay lots of money and drive there a couple times a month, but really it must have been great being at home all alone with no monsterous kid to ruin shit.
Ever notice the parents were not made to make amends for anything? Somehow everything fell on us.
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-22 23:21 ]
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Oh yeah, my parents didn't have to hear me say it to their damn faces about the shit they pulled. i was always calling them on their shit, my dad was a table pounder, a rager, and i was the "snit" that told him to quit it and told my mom to get him out of there and get a divorce. plus i didn't listen to them on anything, they didn't respect me. if they had just CHILLED about the whole school thing - why can't an intellient teenager have a good point and make up her own mind about going to school? many factors, like child abuse. i didn't know how to identify it as child abuse. when your mom thinks she is justified in not getting you ice when you break a bone and making you sit and wait for her to take you to the emergency room, because, and i quote "you were late for the bus again, that's why you broke your foot", and then that person tells you they loves you? you are wonderful? they were afraid when you ran away? you should be afraid of what could happen to me at your own hands. i'm a child, i can see.
my parents got all into church, my mom was so happy when i was in Straight. she told me things like how mad she was that i wasn't at my graduation because i was in Straight. somewhere inside i cringed. before Straight i would have said "whatever!" and gotten in a fight if i had to about how completely stupid she was being, but by then - i think that conversation happened when i was on second phase - i had been well trained to suppress opposition, to accept blame, even if somewhere inside this was like a fist clenching.
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On 2005-09-06 21:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Oh yeah, my parents didn't have to hear me say it to their damn faces about the shit they pulled. i was always calling them on their shit, my dad was a table pounder, a rager, and i was the "snit" that told him to quit it and told my mom to get him out of there and get a divorce. plus i didn't listen to them on anything, they didn't respect me. if they had just CHILLED about the whole school thing - why can't an intellient teenager have a good point and make up her own mind about going to school? many factors, like child abuse. i didn't know how to identify it as child abuse. when your mom thinks she is justified in not getting you ice when you break a bone and making you sit and wait for her to take you to the emergency room, because, and i quote "you were late for the bus again, that's why you broke your foot", and then that person tells you they loves you? you are wonderful? they were afraid when you ran away? you should be afraid of what could happen to me at your own hands. i'm a child, i can see.
my parents got all into church, my mom was so happy when i was in Straight. she told me things like how mad she was that i wasn't at my graduation because i was in Straight. somewhere inside i cringed. before Straight i would have said "whatever!" and gotten in a fight if i had to about how completely stupid she was being, but by then - i think that conversation happened when i was on second phase - i had been well trained to suppress opposition, to accept blame, even if somewhere inside this was like a fist clenching. "
This is really sad reading all this. I know what you mean about the raging father and church stuff too. Really till this day I don't even think my dad knows I was in straight. My mom is the only one that came. My dad is an abusive parent and so was my step mother. Seeing dishes and furniture thrown around the room was normal in their house. My dad beat on my mom, then my step mom, and then my brother. Religion made him worse. Straight just added to my anxiety problems that I had before going in. Not once did that place ever talk to us about what our families did to us. It was all about what we did.
It's hard for me to be mad at my mom anymore. Things have started to be repaired over the years. However, in my father's case I'm coming to terms that I really only have one in name. I called him out on abusing me as a kid and all he could do was deny it and say I was a liar.
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Sorry to hear about your step-daughter Dragonfly. As a parent my heart goes out to you.
Yes, my mom,step dad,dad and step mom were all dysfunctional way before straight. Yes, I was doing a lot of stuff, but before straight I had been living place to place and I think my mom just wanted to have someone else take over. I can even understand why. What I can't understand is why she bought into it for so long.
The crazy thing in all of this is that I had a father who was a junkie and a biker. I was exposed to all sorts of things as a kid. So then when I'm a teenager both my parental households decide they were going to change and buckle down on me. It was too late. They should have not been surprised at the things I did. My father and step mother especially. The do as I say not as I do is not very effective parenting IMO.
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On 2005-09-06 21:35:00, dragonfly wrote:
"Well I don't think it's the parents fault that Straight was so fucked up.
And ALL our parents were fucked up too.
And Brainwashed long before they heard of straight.
I have some experience as the parent in all this mess.
I watched my step daughter, now 23 years old, start out on pot, we were ok with that in moderation. Alchohol, we were ok with that in moderation, then she started doing x and acid, a little concern there. Then she started doing crack and shooting heroin.
If you have not watched your kid get into that you have no right to be judging the level of brainwashing your parents should have resisted.
When your kid is getting fucking high as shit, there is some serious desrperation at hand.
Because of my experience with straight, we took the easy approach, she'll out grow it, it's natural, it's a right of passage. But then there is the reality of AIDS, friends driving drunk. Fuck man that was HELL. Dealing with straight was hell too, but feeling responsible for a kid who uses is scarey. If you think it would just be a fucking party, go adopt and see for your self. And you have all this fucking pressure from EVERYONE to fucking make your kid stop.
So Fuck man, of fucking course the god damn parents are crazy. But they are just products of the machine too.
I say we ask Dr. Fucktard.
"
You're a fucking child abuse apologist. Call a spade a spade you lousy brainwashed jive talker. You aren't even making sense. It is so the parents' fault that Straight was even in operation! They paid the damn bill that kept the place up and fucking running!
Don't give me no shit the parents were brainwashed too. The rest of y'all can believe that shit all you want. That does not excuse my parents for ANYTHING. Fuck this shit! They locked me up, bitch, and I damn for sure not going to shut up when someone like you comes in the room and wants to poison the air with your child abuser apologies. Whatever. You annoy me. You think you have high up ideas and want to tell the rest of us to modify our opinions.
I think you will feel much better when you put reality back where it belongs.
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On 2005-09-06 19:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Anonymous poster, thank you for what you are saying here. I really appreciate it."
You're welcome. It took me a while to process it, but I have to call a spade a spade---my parents were child abusers, or at least guilty of neglect. My family was dysfunctional before Straight, no matter how smarmy and suburban middle class it may have seemed from the outside, and I don't think I'm the only one here with that general description. This is uncomfortable, painful knowledge--I was abused by my parents. However, I think that once we confront the facts, we are better able to deal with them, to understand and sort out the entire mindfuck that happened to us. Sure, we may have been engaging in undesirable, risky, or illegal behavior, but I don't think any of us killed anyone (and if we had tried killing ourselves, Straight only would have made our psyche that much more pained), and Straight was like cutting off a leg because we had a hangnail. I don't like the fact that my parents were incompetent, irresponsible, neglectful, and party to abusing me, but they were, and I have to learn to live with that rather than wear "rose colored glasses" and pretend they had nothing to do with the abuses I suffered. I hope my comments have been helpful, I know that this is a painful realization.
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First and foremost I love you all...I am not trying to sound trite or FOS or be a kiss ass..we are all survivors... So if you disagree then cool...I still love you...
YES WE'RE WISE BUT IT'S WISDOM BORN OF PAIN WE'RE STRONG WE'RE INVINCIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Wow! I didn't realize that I would start such a heated debate... my parents were fucked...they were dysfunctional... I was a hurting drug abusing kid and Straight preyed on their hope and their fears...my family needs to take responsibility for their actions...no doubt...
But I think that we are a product of out experience. In my INDIVIDUAL case (I cannot speak about any other parents)...my family was fucking dysfuncational...but they were trying to do the right thing...they made some horrible mistakes... that is where I am coming from... Straight HID what they did from our parents... my parents should have tried harder to uncover the truth... but they didn't! MY family failed to protect me when I needed me most...
But as I work through my Straight shit (in therapy and through the steps). I feel VERY lucky that I have a relationship with my family today where I can hug them and tell that I love them and I can forgive them their mistakes...and they can forgive mine...It just just feels so damn lonely that the people I love the most in the world (my family) will never truly understand what they put me through.
Life is too short (and too long) to keep hating or blaming myself and/or my family... If I keep hating...then Straight wins! And I have vowed never to let that fucking place win!!!
THAT SAID...FUCK STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PEACE!
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On 2005-09-06 19:26:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
Hey pirate----I mentioned worrying that the truth would just kill my dad (literallly, I worry he would actually have a serious decline in health) - - I told him a little about the restraining, which he had no clue went on, never heard of it in fact. He was shocked. So how on earth do you get a "well meaning" parent to admit they fucked up by putting you in straight? "
NCL-Fuck if i know. In the course of that phone call w/my mom she told me that she would like to apologize but said to me that she really couldn't because she truly believed my death was comin'. i asked her if she thought that before str8 and she said "yes". So the whole "your child will be dead in a year without str8s' help" doesn't apply in her case. Her argument is: as bad as str8 was it saved my life. i guess her comment that she considers herself a failure as a parent could be taken as an apology. That is how i'm takin' it. Of course her "apology" comes after decades of tense conversations and arguments in which i never actually came right out and laid it all on her, 'cause i jus' don' want to hurt her, but jus' tried to let her know in a way that she could handle that i have suffered more for that experience than she realized. My dad won't even approach apologizin'.
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This is a heavy subject.
i have been thinkin' about this for a long time. What is the parental responsibility ??
My parents were never too good at relatin' to me. i was born after the cultural revolution. They came of age in the 50s. They were always abusive with their words and with their physical punishment. shit they taught me violence in the first place.
As soon as i got to front row i put in a withdrawl, requested a meeting with my parents. They refused to meet with me or even hear what i had to say. i remember thinkin' at the time: they don' even know what they're doin'. i felt like i was dead to them or somethin'.
Str8 played on their fears. And my folks were so ready to be lied to and decieved. They were so jonesed for pretty illusions. Sweet Demons fed them sweet delusions as a cure for they're pain. They were irresponsible, even in their ignorance. Ignorance of themselves and ignorance born out of social conditionin', which is really jus' 1 thing 'n' not 2.
They abandoned me to the Beast and in so doin' neglected their most sacred dharma.
They should have been my protection for i had no rights of my own. Luckily, i was able to fashion a weapon as i squinted up into the blindness and some protection outta a motionless mind. Anarchy and the institution are locked in eternal battle.
i feel ever'body who's hurtin' in pain. i feel like what wet noodle said: i love you, i feel you. You are my brothers 'n sisters.
Fuck Fear. Fuck the institution. Fuck Str8. Fuck all authority
::dove:: ::dove:: :skull:
_________________
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end. People are not commodities. When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.
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Dharma as in sacred duty. Truth.
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Right back atcha Pirate
---
There is nothing more painful than being abandoned or betrayed by the very people who are supposed to comfort and protect you...
But if we stand together...we can survive...we will survive... WE WILL FUCKING PREVAIL!!!! I think that is what this site is all about...it is about us taken the fucking power back!
::rocker:: ::rocker:: ::rocker::
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Take the p0wer back. Fuck all their false authority. i'm comin' on like a freight train full o' homeless bums. Fuck Fear. Fuck Str8. i got the soul o' the Sun in the marrow of my bones.
Rasta-faRi.
::dove:: ::dove:: :skull:
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Pirate said------?NCL-Fuck if I know. In the course of that phone call w/my mom she told me that she would like to apologize but said to me that she really couldn't because she truly believed my death was comin'. I asked her if she thought that before str8 and she said "yes". So the whole "your child will be dead in a year without str8s' help" doesn't apply in her case. Her argument is: as bad as str8 was it saved my life. I guess her comment that she considers herself a failure as a parent could be taken as an apology. That is how I?m takin' it. Of course her "apology" comes after decades of tense conversations and arguments in which I never actually came right out and laid it all on her, 'cause I jus' don' want to hurt her, but jus' tried to let her know in a way that she could handle that I have suffered more for that experience than she realized. My dad won't even approach apologizin'.?-------
My step monster is incapable of accepting any responsibility and would never apologize....so basically I could care less about her. BUT, my dad is an extremely sensitive person and over the years I have learned how vulnerable of a person he really is.... which is why I know that it might really kill him in a very real way if he knew the full extent of my damage and straight?s lies that sucked him in....you hit on exactly what I was trying to say about this. My dad, not in explicit words, but in conversations with him over the years about the kidnaping....he has never tried to justify it and I can tell he knows he really screwed up that day....I?m sure the real possibility of jail time woke him up. But he?s never admitted that he screwed up by sending me to straight...but has admitted that my time there was a precaution (to keep me from going drugs in the first place) if I wasn?t doing drugs but playing it safe if I was because I showed so many ?warning signs?----that of course is fucked up reasoning?but he was honest with me and at least I now know he believes me, that I never did drugs. Will I ever get an apology....you know what...maybe on his death bed that might happen... I can see him doing that...will I get it before then, or will I ever get a full ?I admit I really screwed up by putting you in straight...I?ll never know.
I do know this...ever last one of us that went through straight....at the very least deserves one huge apology from our parents.
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Like Daniel outta the lions' den...
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Only God helped him...
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the mighty God is a livin' man.[ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2005-09-07 17:11 ]
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????????????? :smile:
....could you fill me in????
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=7#108714 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10347&forum=7#108714)[ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2005-09-07 18:04 ]
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Oh...ok...thanks I was feeling pretty silly, ya know when something goes straight over your head but everybody else gets it. ::rainbow:: !
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:wink:
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yeah, went over my head to. haha
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...But Anyway...there was some real good dialogue goin' on a while back, concernin' parental responsibility 'n' such... :smile:
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There are places, or were, where the lions and the Kung or San people of southern Africa, also known as the "Bushmen", had an understanding with each other. Lions did not attack humans. Whereas, in other parts, I think where the farmers had come in and were killing the lions, the lions were dangerous and would kill humans. I'm pretty sure I read about this in The Tribe of Tiger: Cats and their Culture, by Elizabeth Marshall Thomas.
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Sounds like a metaphor for all things bein' tools and the value we attach.
What do the lions represent ??
Answer: whatever you want or whatever it is that you see.
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Or...uh...Oh, i see, i jus' re-read your post; the lions were us(the children) and when there was a genuine and respectful dialogue between them all was copecetic. But where there was fear and no genuine and respectful dialogue there was oppression and violence. But this is jus' what i see...
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What??? boyo, you got some wacky weed there, or you are fuckin whacked. i was making a concrete - not high-falutin' metaphorical an' shit - reference to factual and observed animal behavior. i had been thinking about why Daniel didn't get eaten. did he know special big cat communication techniques? did he have a quantity of catnip or tranquilizer hidden on his person when he got thrown in with the lions? did he have friends on the outside who bribed the guards to feed the lions first?
it is said by some to not even be a historically factual story, although it is not an inconcievable possibility that such a thing could happen.
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You got that right. None the less the reason the story appeals to people is due to what it represents. It doesn't matter whether the story is factully correct or not. It is a metaphor.
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Earth to pirate, come in pirate. We are trying to guide you back to Earth. There seems to be some interference.
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i know...(cosmic... static)...i am tryin' to get thru...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Fuckin' shit, Oh! fuckin' shit.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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wassup y'all...what the fuck has been going on while I have been away?
:flame:
"Your anger is a gift..."
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"Anger is a gift" ...aint that smashin' pumpkins'
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we're so glad you have returned to the collective. in a we-function-better-with-you kind of glad, not a sentimental "luv ya" kind of glad.
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"Anger is a gift" ...aint that smashin' pumpkins'
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no, the literal collective, which some of us still belong to.
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...Uh... what ???
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I "love" you too anon.
::rocker::
The lyrics are from Rage Against the Machine... the song is "Freedom" one of my faves...
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Oh yeah.
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My parents were the enemy.
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
--Unknown
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I just talked with my mom...I told about this website and some of the things that we talk about (the abuse the suicides). She just kept saying "I am sorry...I didn't know" over and over again...but I don't think she actually comreprends what she is saying...I love my mom so much I don't have the heart to really explain what Str8 did ot me...
I also asked her a question I have always wanted to know...why Str8? there are a bout a zillion other places she could have put me...whay str8? She said that she found it in the fucking telephone book...and that it was the only place that she could afford... (she was self employed at the time with minimal health insurance for me)
The fucking yellow pages!!!! I can't believe that two years of my life came down to my mom "letting her fingers do the walking"
Argh!!!!!!!!!
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My dad had no idea either what went on in straight and what happened to many of us years afterward....I think that was quite a shock for him. And the more I tell hiim...the closer he gets to "comprehending."
BUT anyway, I didnt have the heart to fully explain to my dad what was going on in straight at first, like you said, and I was worried about his health...I mentioned this before on this thread I think.
But after reading and posting on this thread...a day or two later I finally I set aside my fears of hurting my dad(who really meant well at the time)...and started to break down, ask questions, talk about how aweful it was for me, etc.
Turns out much to my surprise, he's now willing to listen for my sake because he knows I'm having problems with it now and is probably keeping his own personal pain from me (because he knows I'll shut up if he expresses that). He explained the answer to my "why straight" question too. It was either straight or outward bound for me. He heard about straight from my stepmonster, who heard about it from a straight parent who claimed it "saved" her child. I dont think he did much checking beyond listenening to straights scare tactics, button pushing, and sales pitches after that....
Yellow pages...that'a probably tough to swallow.
This shit (the truth) is really hard to digest even after so many years isn't it?
::rainbow::
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yup...very hard to swallow...
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and digest...
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Ok, let's look at this from a broader perspective. How many times have you run into someone who got the shocking news from the schoolpeople that their perfectly wonderful child was somehow disordered? The proof? The schoolpeople had a list of signs and dx criteria that, sure as shit, fit their darling boy (in the majority of such cases) to a T.
Proof positive, and they bought it and so they now drug the kid and make him go to a shrink and all sorts of nasty shit. Because some idiot w/ a bachelors who didn't have the ability and/or motivation to get a real job says so. And nothing the kid or anyone can say or do will disuade them.
I don't think it's just the Program proper that's the problem. I think the school system is the Program Light. And that's one reason why parents buy into it; they're already half sold by the time their oldest kid is 12.
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
--Denis Diderot, French encyclopedist
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On 2005-09-13 13:52:00, the wet noodle wrote:
"I just talked with my mom...I told about this website and some of the things that we talk about (the abuse the suicides). She just kept saying "I am sorry...I didn't know" over and over again...but I don't think she actually comreprends what she is saying...I love my mom so much I don't have the heart to really explain what Str8 did ot me...
I also asked her a question I have always wanted to know...why Str8? there are a bout a zillion other places she could have put me...whay str8? She said that she found it in the fucking telephone book...and that it was the only place that she could afford... (she was self employed at the time with minimal health insurance for me)
The fucking yellow pages!!!! I can't believe that two years of my life came down to my mom "letting her fingers do the walking"
Argh!!!!!!!!!
"
Damn Noodle the phone book! I would hope in this day in time if the internet was available back then the way it is today that some of our parents would do better research.
I was at a hospital before being shipped to straight and while I was there my mom and step dad started attending tough love mtgs (most likely at the urging of the hospital). It was at these mtgs they met straight parents (my mind associates those parents like the people in that movie the Body Snatchers).
So these people convinced my mom straight was the answer to her out of control kid. I would later learn in straight that one of those parents continually molested his child. Child molesters convinced my mother to lock me away. Guess what the child molester is still free! As far as I know straight never reported this to the police and the person kept going on home visits! Is that just sick or what.