Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: mksmal on September 03, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
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Does anyone know anything about Abundant Life Academy, especially in Kanab, Utah or Craig Rogers, the head of the place? A friend(15)was taken there under false pretenses and left. We are very curious about the institution and cannot get satisfactory information from them. Thanks.
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Yeah, it's a whacked-out Christian Fundamentalist bootcamp for "troubled teens."
Look at their website. If it weren't so disturbing, it would be laughable.
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I am something of a amature theologin. The porgrams that claim to be christian are the one that bothers me the most. They take their actions and cover them in the name of God and not their own actions. Things like 9/11, the crusades, the inquisition, and many many wars in Africa have been done in the name of one god or another. This is one more thing we can put on the list of horror. I hold those that sat they act for God to a higher standard. And those that act for God should not be doing such things as behavior modification. It smacks of a cult, and that is something that needs to be stayed the hell away from. In my view God is a God of free will, and forcing people to change what they believe is simply evil to me. you can debate all you want, argue all you want, and teach all you want, yet it all comes down to THEIR CHOICE. At places like this, children have no choices.
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I am something of a amature theologin.
I think you meant 'amateur theologian'? :wink:
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haha, damn I was going to spell check that. I completely forgot. haha yeah...
I really really suck a spelling.
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On 2005-09-03 19:33:00, OverLordd wrote:
"haha, damn I was going to spell check that. I completely forgot. haha yeah...
I really really suck a spelling."
Among other things, such as commenting.
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Among other things, such as commenting.
:roll: You going to post about the topic or not?
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No, you see, I don't have first hand knowledge of the program in question. So rather than just randomly speculate off the top of my head as you do, I will refrain from commenting.
Do you know anything about the program, or are you just talking out of your ass as usual?
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If you will read the post you will notice I did not say a single thing about the program. I talked about the horrors of people doing things in Gods name. I also said that I hold people that do things in Gods name to a higher standard. I said nothing of the programs. Read the damned post before you bash.
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On 2005-09-03 19:43:00, OverLordd wrote:
"If you will read the post you will notice I did not say a single thing about the program. I talked about the horrors of people doing things in Gods name. I also said that I hold people that do things in Gods name to a higher standard. I said nothing of the programs. Read the damned post before you bash."
Precisely! You talk out of your ass, completely off topic. Then comment about other people not keeping on topic. You are a hypocrite son. Besides ignorant. :wstupid: :tup:
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Christ your an idiot. I was responding to Dysfunction Junction.
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Here are some threads on ALA
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5038&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5038&forum=9)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#66033 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6837&forum=9&start=0#66033)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9090&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9090&forum=9)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4280&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4280&forum=9) (this one's a doozy! Starts out w/ a skreed against Craig Rogers by a former business partner, then Craig chimes in and tidily indicts himself. Hillarity ensues...)
Here are some of Craig's posts (as Craig Rogers)
http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term= ... mit=Search (http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=&addterms=any&forum=all&search_username=CraigRogers&sortby=p.post_time&searchboth=both&submit=Search)
That should get you started. You can probably still contact at least some of these people. If you have trouble in that area (like they don't list an email address) just ask and I'll do what I can to track them down and pass along your contact info to them. I was born a heretic. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
--Susan B. Anthony, U.S. reformer and suffragist
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Is there anything we can do tho help this 15 year old? The parents have obviously been brainwashed themselves.
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Thanks for the information! :grin:
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I think anyone mentioned in those threads is probably out already. Buzzkill can tell you some, but (imo, even though I like and respect her) I think she's a little foggy on ppl who profess her own faith as Craig does. But she is sincere and very open w/ her thoughts.
I know that Amanda got out. She posts here, there and other sites occasionally. Good luck and please let us know what you find out. Just post it right here as it may be useful to others who bump up against ALA and Craig in future.
Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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On 2005-09-05 09:01:00, Antigen wrote:
"I think anyone mentioned in those threads is probably out already. Buzzkill can tell you some, but (imo, even though I like and respect her) I think she's a little foggy on ppl who profess her own faith as Craig does. But she is sincere and very open w/ her thoughts.
I know that Amanda got out. She posts here, there and other sites occasionally. Good luck and please let us know what you find out. Just post it right here as it may be useful to others who bump up against ALA and Craig in future.
Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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Buzzkill is definitly sincere about protecting kids from abusive programs like the one she was duped into sending her own son to (Dundee Ranch) but I do think she made a mistake with ALA which IMO, is understandable given her strong faith. Perhaps one day Buzzkill will come to see ALA for what it is, a program that profits from shoving Christian values and beliefs down the throats of CAPTIVE TEENS. Just the fact that ALA accepts kids brought to them in chains (metaphor for kids taken by forced escort) should be enough for parents to figure out what the bottom line is here.
:smokin:
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Well, in all fairness, I've heard that Craig abandoned the experiment w/ overtly forced inductees. However, there are more subtle and sly means of coercion. I don't trust the guy as far as I could throw him and I hear he's rather large. About the time it became clear to even him that he was losing the argument around here, he first threatened and then offered to bribe my hosting provider trying to get them to shut down the forums. They, of course, told him in admirably level, business-like terms to pound sand. But I won't forget the intent on his part which, in my view, well illustrates his stayed conviction that any means are justified by his belief that he's doing God's work.
If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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Hi folks.
I would be happy to talk with this concerned friend - but in reality - I don't know a lot about ALA and the current situation.
I do think well of Craig and Wendy. The fact is, they were very good to us. Its not just cause we share the same faith - there are many Christians I don't think much of.
I still say the kids who attend ALA are not having the Christian faith shoved down their throats - being as they are Christian to begin with.
All that being said, I know very little about the current situation, as far as how ALA is being operated.
But if you (concerned friend)understanding my limitations, would still like to talk with me, simply as someone who's son was there, feel free to PM or email me.
*[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-09-05 18:20 ]
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On 2005-09-05 18:19:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"Hi folks.
I would be happy to talk with this concerned friend - but in reality - I don't know a lot about ALA and the current situation.
I do think well of Craig and Wendy. The fact is, they were very good to us. Its not just cause we share the same faith - there are many Christians I don't think much of.
I still say the kids who attend ALA are not having the Christian faith shoved down their throats - being as they are Christian to begin with.
All that being said, I know very little about the current situation, as far as how ALA is being operated.
But if you (concerned friend)understanding my limitations, would still like to talk with me, simply as someone who's son was there, feel free to PM or email me.
*[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-09-05 18:20 ]"
Personally, I think any teen help program in Utah raises red flags no matter what God the owners/operators worship. Indoctrination is still indoctrination.
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On 2005-09-03 19:43:00, OverLordd wrote:
"If you will read the post you will notice I did not say a single thing about the program. I talked about the horrors of people doing things in Gods name. I also said that I hold people that do things in Gods name to a higher standard. I said nothing of the programs. Read the damned post before you bash."
One contributing reason many church people no longer respond quickly and obediently to the Word is because of constant television watching. The hypnotic force of television has deceived them in some significant ways. First of all, television is filled with "confusing, conflicting reports" about events in real time. Pundits and polls "decide" for the masses what is "true or not true". Entertainment and fantasy, served up by audio and video, are very compelling; yet we have been "trained" to not take seriously much of what we see and hear on TV because it is so confusing, conflicting, and unreal. TV requires no honest response. People are trained to be "entertained" and often do not respond or take seriously what they see and hear. They fantasize about what they "want to be so", living vicariously through TV personalities, or they just "cut it off" or "change the channel" when they are through with it, disagree with it?or are challenged by it. The power to "change the subject" is in their hand. People have the "power" to dismiss quickly what they have seen or heard if they do not like it. There is no thoughtful, careful, or honest response. Another way TV viewers are "trained" by the power of television is they mindlessly receive a "lie" just because a personality on TV "says" something is so, and viewers more often than not, use no discernment. Their powers of decision are often crossed. To believe what TV says is true and to agree with it (when it is NOT Truth) is to be confused and deceived. To believe or not to believe. Either / or. And to have the power to dismiss the rhetoric with the "click of a button" is to hesitate to act on what they have seen or heard. Though discerning Christians should exercise their power to dismiss untruth and confusion without hesitating, often because the masses are "trained" by so much TV watching of the entertainment of confusion and conflict?.people also use their personal power to "dismiss" the Truth of God when He speaks and asks His people to not hesitate?but to obey quickly. The enemy of our souls is Satan. He is called Apollyon, and He is the Destroyer. He has purposed to use commercial TV to destroy the nation of America and any people around the world who watch it continuously. He uses the likes of CNN, ABC, CBS, MSNBC and other networks to control masses of people. All who are not discerning and who are not led by the Holy Spirit are being "trained" by the television and the media are "confused". To consider the faces of men or their will is to consider CONFUSION , and this is a distraction. Jesus came to set men free from confusion and whom the Son sets free is FREE INDEED. (John 8:32) Do not be entertained or moved by people's faces or the confusing and conflicting lies they speak. Consider not confusion, for its fruit is death. CONSIDER JESUS?for He is Truth and His fruit is LIFE! (Hebrews 12:2) To walk in wisdom is to have insight into the true nature of things. To understand a thing is to know a thing in its right relationship. Having these is to be established in God's Truth. Wisdom gives understanding. The ability to understand is the power to do it. Therefore, "Get WISDOM. Get UNDERSTANDING!" (Proverbs 4:5) Those who are distracted from the Truth are "confused". The "confused" live in confusion and make covenants (agreements) in confusion with other "confused" people. Their thinking processes are like unto people lost in a labyrinth. The cannot find their way out of the maze of confusion and conflict. Stay within the Holy boundaries and coverings He has provided and set, and you shall have safety round about. Live by and in His Word which is Truth and which gives Godly wisdom. To not understand is to stay in confusion and be unable to do the things God is calling us to do.
Craig Rogers
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On 2005-09-15 11:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-09-03 19:43:00, OverLordd wrote:
"If you will read the post you will notice I did not say a single thing about the program. I talked about the horrors of people doing things in Gods name. I also said that I hold people that do things in Gods name to a higher standard. I said nothing of the programs. Read the damned post before you bash."
One contributing reason many church people no longer respond quickly and obediently to the Word is because of constant television watching. The hypnotic force of television has deceived them in some significant ways. First of all, television is filled with "confusing, conflicting reports" about events in real time. Pundits and polls "decide" for the masses what is "true or not true". Entertainment and fantasy, served up by audio and video, are very compelling; yet we have been "trained" to not take seriously much of what we see and hear on TV because it is so confusing, conflicting, and unreal. TV requires no honest response. People are trained to be "entertained" and often do not respond or take seriously what they see and hear. They fantasize about what they "want to be so", living vicariously through TV personalities, or they just "cut it off" or "change the channel" when they are through with it, disagree with it?or are challenged by it. The power to "change the subject" is in their hand. People have the "power" to dismiss quickly what they have seen or heard if they do not like it. There is no thoughtful, careful, or honest response. Another way TV viewers are "trained" by the power of television is they mindlessly receive a "lie" just because a personality on TV "says" something is so, and viewers more often than not, use no discernment. Their powers of decision are often crossed. To believe what TV says is true and to agree with it (when it is NOT Truth) is to be confused and deceived. To believe or not to believe. Either / or. And to have the power to dismiss the rhetoric with the "click of a button" is to hesitate to act on what they have seen or heard. Though discerning Christians should exercise their power to dismiss untruth and confusion without hesitating, often because the masses are "trained" by so much TV watching of the entertainment of confusion and conflict?.people also use their personal power to "dismiss" the Truth of God when He speaks and asks His people to not hesitate?but to obey quickly. The enemy of our souls is Satan. He is called Apollyon, and He is the Destroyer. He has purposed to use commercial TV to destroy the nation of America and any people around the world who watch it continuously. He uses the likes of CNN, ABC, CBS, MSNBC and other networks to control masses of people. All who are not discerning and who are not led by the Holy Spirit are being "trained" by the television and the media are "confused". To consider the faces of men or their will is to consider CONFUSION , and this is a distraction. Jesus came to set men free from confusion and whom the Son sets free is FREE INDEED. (John 8:32) Do not be entertained or moved by people's faces or the confusing and conflicting lies they speak. Consider not confusion, for its fruit is death. CONSIDER JESUS?for He is Truth and His fruit is LIFE! (Hebrews 12:2) To walk in wisdom is to have insight into the true nature of things. To understand a thing is to know a thing in its right relationship. Having these is to be established in God's Truth. Wisdom gives understanding. The ability to understand is the power to do it. Therefore, "Get WISDOM. Get UNDERSTANDING!" (Proverbs 4:5) Those who are distracted from the Truth are "confused". The "confused" live in confusion and make covenants (agreements) in confusion with other "confused" people. Their thinking processes are like unto people lost in a labyrinth. The cannot find their way out of the maze of confusion and conflict. Stay within the Holy boundaries and coverings He has provided and set, and you shall have safety round about. Live by and in His Word which is Truth and which gives Godly wisdom. To not understand is to stay in confusion and be unable to do the things God is calling us to do.
Craig Rogers
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Cram it, Churchie. And give me my remote back!
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On 2005-09-15 11:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-09-15 11:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-09-03 19:43:00, OverLordd wrote:
"If you will read the post you will notice I did not say a single thing about the program. I talked about the horrors of people doing things in Gods name. I also said that I hold people that do things in Gods name to a higher standard. I said nothing of the programs. Read the damned post before you bash."
One contributing reason many church people no longer respond quickly and obediently to the Word is because of constant television watching. The hypnotic force of television has deceived them in some significant ways. First of all, television is filled with "confusing, conflicting reports" about events in real time. Pundits and polls "decide" for the masses what is "true or not true". Entertainment and fantasy, served up by audio and video, are very compelling; yet we have been "trained" to not take seriously much of what we see and hear on TV because it is so confusing, conflicting, and unreal. TV requires no honest response. People are trained to be "entertained" and often do not respond or take seriously what they see and hear. They fantasize about what they "want to be so", living vicariously through TV personalities, or they just "cut it off" or "change the channel" when they are through with it, disagree with it?or are challenged by it. The power to "change the subject" is in their hand. People have the "power" to dismiss quickly what they have seen or heard if they do not like it. There is no thoughtful, careful, or honest response. Another way TV viewers are "trained" by the power of television is they mindlessly receive a "lie" just because a personality on TV "says" something is so, and viewers more often than not, use no discernment. Their powers of decision are often crossed. To believe what TV says is true and to agree with it (when it is NOT Truth) is to be confused and deceived. To believe or not to believe. Either / or. And to have the power to dismiss the rhetoric with the "click of a button" is to hesitate to act on what they have seen or heard. Though discerning Christians should exercise their power to dismiss untruth and confusion without hesitating, often because the masses are "trained" by so much TV watching of the entertainment of confusion and conflict?.people also use their personal power to "dismiss" the Truth of God when He speaks and asks His people to not hesitate?but to obey quickly. The enemy of our souls is Satan. He is called Apollyon, and He is the Destroyer. He has purposed to use commercial TV to destroy the nation of America and any people around the world who watch it continuously. He uses the likes of CNN, ABC, CBS, MSNBC and other networks to control masses of people. All who are not discerning and who are not led by the Holy Spirit are being "trained" by the television and the media are "confused". To consider the faces of men or their will is to consider CONFUSION , and this is a distraction. Jesus came to set men free from confusion and whom the Son sets free is FREE INDEED. (John 8:32) Do not be entertained or moved by people's faces or the confusing and conflicting lies they speak. Consider not confusion, for its fruit is death. CONSIDER JESUS?for He is Truth and His fruit is LIFE! (Hebrews 12:2) To walk in wisdom is to have insight into the true nature of things. To understand a thing is to know a thing in its right relationship. Having these is to be established in God's Truth. Wisdom gives understanding. The ability to understand is the power to do it. Therefore, "Get WISDOM. Get UNDERSTANDING!" (Proverbs 4:5) Those who are distracted from the Truth are "confused". The "confused" live in confusion and make covenants (agreements) in confusion with other "confused" people. Their thinking processes are like unto people lost in a labyrinth. The cannot find their way out of the maze of confusion and conflict. Stay within the Holy boundaries and coverings He has provided and set, and you shall have safety round about. Live by and in His Word which is Truth and which gives Godly wisdom. To not understand is to stay in confusion and be unable to do the things God is calling us to do.
Craig Rogers
"
Cram it, Churchie. And give me my remote back!"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: