Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: OverLordd on August 26, 2005, 03:52:00 PM
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Another of my friends was lost to the beast. She was sent away during summer, and because I was away I did not know. I just found out 15 minutes ago... This hurts so bad... more info forthcoming as I get it.
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It might be beacuse they get parents to start recruiting other parents. They give them a free month, that's the equivilent of $4000! I've heard of parents sending a dozen other kids, just to keep their own kid there another year. Sick, isn't it?
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Most families can not afford these programs. I doubt that there are all that many referrals resulting in free months. This is a little different from signing up for gymnastics lessons.
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:???: :???: :???: :???:
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sounds like you may be running with the wrong crowd!
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What crowd might that be?
The crowd with fucked up, abusive, ignorant, retarded parents with cash to spend? Sounds about right!
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Maybe its the crowd with abusive, ignorant, retarded kids. Lorddyboi doesn't know even what kind of place, or if she went willingly. And he didn't say what she was doing.
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What facility was she sent to?
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I dont know, I will find out, I referanced a friend with more information to this website, I just dont know when she will get here. It was a religous program in flordia. God damn it the parents would not even listen to me, they wouldent even let me direct them to ISAC... "Is it about the negatives about the programs?" "Yes ma'am." "Well truthfully I wont read it. because I know God wants her to be there." I mean chirst!!! come on!!!
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"Well truthfully I wont read it. because I know God wants her to be there."
weird
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If you present the facts with the same tone you usually use on this board I think the parents would have a hard time listening to what you have to say Overlordd.
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good advice! parents want real facts, not junk just pulled from this board. a parent will find this board loaded with vulgarity and hate. Especially religious parents will only see this place as nothing more than an affirmment of their decision. Refer to Isaac. If you get the name of the program, call the newspapers in the area to see if there has been any press on the place. Gather facts not just stories from fornits. Then, do as the previous poster suggested. Go to their pastor and calmly, without curse words, present your concerns. Much better tactic than making light of their beliefs and values.
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If you present the facts with the same tone you usually use on this board I think the parents would have a hard time listening to what you have to say Overlordd.
:roll:
Shortbus, I know how to make a presentation, I was respectful, conserned, put a alittle chit chat and afew jokes into it to keep them from feeling confronted. I did well short bus, and I dont wish you to comment on a discussion you did not hear, I know what to say to get what I want. I got a good amount of information from them, but not everything I wanted.
TSW I never really said they were wrong, I did not want to fight with them because I might have future connact with them, the focus of the converation was Kristie, not how wrong they were.
Hmm, I should figgure out where they go to church, thats a good idea.
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"I know what to say to get what I want" ... except that of course I didnt get it ... but "I dont wish you to comment on a discussion you did not hear" because ???
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Youre not that good at getting what you want. I think what you really wanted at ST was to engage parents in dialog - which you could hav done if youd been will to knock your self-righteous self down a notch or two. Because you do occasionally have worthwhile things to say now and then. But noooooooo, you got your bad self banned from the site because you are unable to practice just the teeiest tiniest amount of self control!
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Dosnt matter whether youre a crazy bible thumper trying to convert lost souls or a crazed single-agenda fornits poster. It comes out the same and gets the same results. You immediately convert the ones that will follow anyone blindly. Immediately turn off a whole bunch of others because you appear crazy and rude. And another bunch sticks around for the entertainment and tries not to take things too seriously. And then theres a bunch that thinks hmmmm, there might be something here to look into but take everything with a grain of salt.
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Its never too late to procrastinate[ This Message was edited by: Shortbus on 2005-08-27 07:53 ]
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On 2005-08-27 07:45:00, Shortbus wrote:
"Youre not that good at getting what you want. I think what you really wanted at ST was to engage parents in dialog - which you could hav done if youd been will to knock your self-righteous self down a notch or two. Because you do occasionally have worthwhile things to say now and then. But noooooooo, you got your bad self banned from the site because you are unable to practice just the teeiest tiniest amount of self control!
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You love to judge and tell people what they are and aren't, dont you? I see why you chose to become a 'counselor'. You can't help yourself, can you?
OL: NEver care what these people say about you. If you could see who they really are, you wouldn't care anyways.
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Yeah, I called him self-righteous. So what, I think he is. Im not in a counselor/teacher situation right now. So what difference does it make and how does that reflect on how well I do my job?
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I swear a lot too but I dont do it in the classroom.
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I am self rightous, alot of people are at points in their lives. I dont think a person could go through their life without being self rightous at one point or another.
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Ask what program it is, why there would ever be a need to hide it, and why she needs to be there.
As far as "god wanting", says who? God didnt, some person did. Id ask for a reason, and then a justification of that, and then how the program will fix that.
Many people like to think god agrees with them... but clearly theyre all wrong, and only one person is actually correct - and I SERIOUSLY doubt its some random program operator or two-bit minister/pastor/priest.
And on a personal note... sorry that shit happened. I dont know what Id do if one of my friends got sent to a program. God knows it would be something drastic :evil: Dont make that mistake yourself! Keep your wits about you and figure out their reasoning, or the reasoning of whoever convinced them.
Keep the facts about how these places run and what they really do, and offer them to these people. Doubt will set in unless theyre reinforced by some belief structure (like... a church!) to put it to rest.
*sigh* its so stupid how someone can arbitrarily decide to shove a kid somewhere, say something vague like "god wants her there" and then basically cover their eyes and plug their ears about the TRUTH of the places pre-emptively! :roll: I don't think we're here for anything, we're just products of evolution. You can say 'Gee, your life must be pretty bleak if you don't think there's a purpose' but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
--Dr. James Watson, American biologist
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I could use any advice you all may offer. My daughter's boyfriend was dropped at Midwest Academy two weeks ago to "improve his study skills"????? This kid hasn't been in trouble, doesn't smoke, drink, do drugs, etc. just made the mistake of being an excellent football player which his dad thinks is a waste of time. His dad is an affluent doctor and the family is Muslim (just to explain a little of the situation).
His Mom was persuaded to talk to ISAC but that did no good... Mom claims there are no specific reports on Midwest Academy so it must be okay.
I contacted DHS and even though there was a case opened on Dad last spring by the school counselor... DHS said there was no reason to investigate. I've contacted the youth minister at the mosque... again no interest. I'm so worried about this boy and the long term impact on him but just don't know what to do.
All thoughts, opinions, ideas will be welcomed.
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Find out if the place is academically accredited by the state. I can almost guarantee you it isn't.
If you find it's not accredited or that they don't have licensed teachers, present that to the mom.
In the meantime, I'll do some looking into this place. It's run by a man who ran a HIGHLY abusive program before and was shut down.
Hang tight, I'll se what I can find.
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OK, so far I've found that this is a WWASP facility. They are a behavior modification program that uses the WWASP "program," a known, highly abusive modality.
Look here, from their website:
"Special Bonus: Exclusive to this website! 8% saving on overall costs if full program costs are paid up front. With any residual funds returned to customer upon early graduation. PLUS this Warranty 60 days free return to the program if old habits return."
What "school" offers a "warranty?
Accreditation:
"Midwest Academy is accredited by the Northwest Accreditation association and affiliated with Keokuk Community School District for Iowa accreditation."
There is no such thing as the Northwest Accreditation Association. This place is most likely unaccredited and cannot issue a high school diploma, period. Check with the Iowa dept of Education.
Another WWASP facility, Academy at Ivy Ridge in NY was recently ordered to repay over $1 million in tuition to parents and to cease and desist advertising that they are accredited and can issue diplomas. They previously issued 113 BOGUS "diplomas" to kids who later found they weren't worth the paper they were written on and barred them from college application.
More from the website:
"The Character Building Program consists of three phases. The first phase is designed to help your child learn to follow rules, boundaries, and structure. In all aspects of life there are responsibilities, rules, and boundaries. Students begin the program with limited choices, but are informed that privilege and status come from consistent working decisions. Our philosophy is one of result-based consequences rather than by time. We are not a prison; students who want to do time will not succeed in our environment. We teach students that success comes from good communication, hard work, and consistency."
The "program" is open ended and can go on indefinitely - "result-based rather than by time."
RED FLAGS ALL OVER THE PLACE. "Phases," "limited choices" RED FLAGS of behavior mod warehouses.
There's too much more to list here today. DO contact the Iowa State Board of Ed and let them know the "school" is issuing diplomas without accreditation from the state of Iowa. They'll be interested. Also contact the Iowa State Atty General and let them know about the fraudulent advertising of accreditation in Iowa - Eliot Spitzer slammed WWASP in NY.
Good luck, and let us know what happens...
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I found where they are accredited as a "special purpose" school.
Midwest Academy Keokuk IA 2003
jbabcock@keokuk.k12.ia.us 319-524-3560
Special Purpose
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Thank you for the quick responses... keep them coming.
I will definitely contact Iowa's Board of Education and State Attorney General as quickly as possible.
I'll let you know what responses I get...
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dysfunction junction wrote:
"What "school" offers a "warranty?"
Hyde School did in the '70s. Only it was voided
if your kid ran away! (Hyde's not lock-down)
:wink: :lol: The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
--John Adams, U.S. President
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Yeh, many do. But it's frequently refered to as a 'guarantee'.
Kids screws up, they'll take him/her back. In my situation the guarentee was void if the parent didn't send their kid to the traditional boarding school they recommended, post program.
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In a nut shell, You are an Idoiot!! Overnut
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what's an 'Idoiot'?
:rofl:
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Ask what program it is, why there would ever be a need to hide it, and why she needs to be there.
As far as "god wanting", says who? God didnt, some person did. Id ask for a reason, and then a justification of that, and then how the program will fix that.
Many people like to think god agrees with them... but clearly theyre all wrong, and only one person is actually correct - and I SERIOUSLY doubt its some random program operator or two-bit minister/pastor/priest.
And on a personal note... sorry that shit happened. I dont know what Id do if one of my friends got sent to a program. God knows it would be something drastic Dont make that mistake yourself! Keep your wits about you and figure out their reasoning, or the reasoning of whoever convinced them.
Keep the facts about how these places run and what they really do, and offer them to these people. Doubt will set in unless theyre reinforced by some belief structure (like... a church!) to put it to rest.
*sigh* its so stupid how someone can arbitrarily decide to shove a kid somewhere, say something vague like "god wants her there" and then basically cover their eyes and plug their ears about the TRUTH of the places pre-emptively!
I was told she was "Depressed, and things were twisting her thinking." I know, it sounds so dumb, but its what they said to me.
THey are so wrong about "God wanting her to be there." Its just not theologically possable. God would never do that to a person, I dont care who it is God does not do things like that. God does not tell you to do something. God gave us the bible so you would not have to go about asking god dumb questions like. "Is it ok to do this, or can I do this." People scare me some times, they really do, its just so horrifying what they do in the name of God, and its not the big things either. Blowing up buildings, killing people. Its the little things that scare me, like the untouchables in india, or fighting over how to do a service or something like that. You know what I mean? Its the little things that make the people.
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Sorry that last one was me.
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How is being kidnapped, taken away and locked up away from friends, family, and therapists going to fix depression? And how is warping her thinking ANOTHER way gonna fix the way it is warped now, assuming it is?
Their whole thought processes are warped... its so sad that in this country you are fully allowed to MIS-'treat' problems your children have. At least shes not getting faith healing for a broken leg that would fester and die :roll: Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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Because MORE THAN LIKELY the parents have a shitty idea of 'theory of mind' with their daugther and just want her to act happy, not that they realize shes an individual with her own thoughts and feelings and they need to help her instead of reprogram her like a malfunctioning toy.
When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.
Robert Anton Wilson
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What I thought was weird is that this girl is almost perfect. She is smarter than me, she does not do drugs, she has close to perfect grades, she does not have sex, she does not even curse! All they said was that she was depressed and they sent her off.
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Hell, the mother probably was coerced into sending her kid to a program by some dumbass parent who told her "trust me, I feel your pain".
Wake up and smell the money, OL. These parents-helping-other-parents send their kids away are motivated by the referral (finder's fees) programs pay them.
These dirty, disgusting profiteers need to be exposed for what they really are but unfortunately, places like ST are crawling with them.
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I have not heard of any parents receiving referral fees. While that might be offered by some programs, it is a rare occurrence.
Overlordd- maybe your friend was cutting, or doing something that only the family knew about. I know lots of kids who are outwardly perfect (to outsiders) but really are struggling with depression which manifests in some hidden ways.
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And sometimes parents just need to contol their good kids and when they can't they buy the best control available.... a WWASPS lockdown facility!!!!
The young man I'm trying to get out of MWA doesn't have hidden issues or problems... he just had the audacity to want to be treated like person with thoughts of his own instead of being blindly-obedient to his dad's mood swings and daily rule changes.
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I know she was cutting, and she knew I disproved, so whenever I commented on it she said she understood and knew it was wrong. I told her to stop and then let her make her own decissions.
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Locking a cutter up in a teen 'rewiring' wharehouse will not help. This is a common mistake. Parents think these places are psychiatric facilities, don't care, or don't know the difference. She will cut worse when she comes home, and I hope she can then receive proper treatement, and find healthier ways to express her anger and hurt.
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We are coming for you tonight Overlord
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WHOA...."WE" are coming for Overlord? What's that about ANON? Careful, now.
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On 2005-08-29 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have not heard of any parents receiving referral fees. While that might be offered by some programs, it is a rare occurrence.
Overlordd- maybe your friend was cutting, or doing something that only the family knew about. I know lots of kids who are outwardly perfect (to outsiders) but really are struggling with depression which manifests in some hidden ways."
Parents getting referral fees is a BIG part of this business. It's one of the major marketing tools these places use to sell a program to parents that have little money or assests against which they can borrow money.
It makes them tireless worker bees for the program.
"At the end of the month your credit with us will be exhausted, Mrs. Smith. I'm sorry to say that your son is still very sick, perhaps suicidal. Unfortunately, we'll have to send him back to you at the end of the month. Maybe you can help your son get the help he so desperately needs by helping your friends and associates to get help for their troubled teens..."
If you think this isn't how it goes, you've never been inside the offices of one of these facilities.
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On 2005-08-29 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"We are coming for you tonight Overlord"
It's Karen; she is going over to his place to suck his dick, naturally.
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Why--being a highly SUCCESSFUL REFERRING PARENT can even lead to opening up YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!! Ask Sue Scheff! She referred parents to WWASP where her daughter was a "student"...and it is said she was VERY VERY successful as a "referring parent." Once she became disenfrancised with WWASP, she opened her own referring company, P.U.R.E, Inc...and it was reported in the WWASP vs P.U.R.E transcripts that she made in excess of $200,000 a year!
Parents referring to these programs IS BIG BUSINESS.
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This was funny.
We are coming for you tonight Overlord
This was more funny.
It's Karen; she is going over to his place to suck his dick, naturally.
Yet both were mean, haha
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To the Anon that said -----------?I have not heard of any parents receiving referral fees. While that might be offered by some programs, it is a rare occurrence.? ---------
So if its offered, but yet programs rarely pay parent?s referral fees, then could you explain the purpose of advertising found in WWASP'S Parent Resources brochures such as this one? If your claim is true, what is the point of advertising referral fees so prominently? :em:
Here's in interesting tidbit from page 3 of a WWASP parental resource brochure.....
?12-What Is The Referral Program? ---By the way, we have an additional resource for a parent with a teen in our program. When another parent, with an ?out of control? teen, asks you why you?re happy?you can refer them to a website that answers questions and send them to me. Once they enroll their teen, you have earned one month?s free tuition for you child! There is more, even after your teen has completed our program, you will still earn $1,000 for a referred parent who uses us. It?s a great way to help!?
http://www.techspeed.com/parentresource ... ochure.pdf (http://www.techspeed.com/parentresources/website-final/pdf/Parent%20Resource%20Brochure.pdf)
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?12-What Is The Referral Program? ---By the way, we have an additional resource for a parent with a teen in our program. When another parent, with an ?out of control? teen, asks you why you?re happy?you can refer them to a website that answers questions and send them to me. Once they enroll their teen, you have earned one month?s free tuition for you child! There is more, even after your teen has completed our program, you will still earn $1,000 for a referred parent who uses us. It?s a great way to help!?
absolutely sickening. IN THEIR OWN WORDS.
Do these program minions think we make this shit up?
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And WWASP is the only group of programs out there?
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Check out their fund raising campaign ideas for parents:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#17313 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2769&forum=9&start=0#17313)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =210#31954 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3865&forum=9&start=210#31954)
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Anon said-------"absolutely sickening. IN THEIR OWN WORDS. Do these program minions think we make this shit up?"----------------
Either they think we make it up or just want to avoid or downplay the issue.....
I agree...its sickening all right.....appeals to the natural interest in freebies or saving money....after reading that, what parent wouldn't want to spread the word especially given how much $ programs cost per month....it totally reminds me of a pyramid scheme or other get rich quick scams....that are along the lines of "the more people you bring in, the more money you get[save]"
I think its an easy TRAP for a parent to fall into....especially because its presented in such a way to make it seem like all parents are happy because their kid has magically been transformed.... :roll: The brochure in other places actually uses blatent terms such as "magic"...unbelievable & irresponsible if you ask me
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Oh and to the anon that said -----"And WWASP is the only group of programs out there?"--------
How's about addressing the question I asked instead of dodging and shifting away from the question that you obviously dont want to answer. Then lets talk about other programs....and name a program that does not advertise this tactic.
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My daughter was in wilderness and a TBS and there was no referral arrangement.
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not everything is done through a rerferal.
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The progrma I was in had the referall thing setup. I know because the kids eventually figure it out when they start seeing kids of their friends parents.
I wonder how many of the trolls here are taking advantage of that 1k fee you get after your kid is gone. I think its important to keep this in mind.. some people arent here to speak trutht hey are here for their one and only interest: $$$$$.
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Ya know, this WWASP referal thing reminds me so
much of Amway and the other multi-level marketing
scams...People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.
--Benjamin Franklin
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It is NOT only WWASP that has PARENTS referring to their programs. P.U.R.E, Inc is an off-shoot for the parental referring business. Sue Scheff started out as a parent referring in the WWASP programs. She now referrs to various programs, but she is not an "educational consultant." She is paid by the PROGRAMS that she refers to.