Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 20, 2005, 02:00:00 AM
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Okay, so my parents got this story, that I was going to run away to California. First of all, yeah right. Second of all, I think they got this story directly from me, although it is possible that Staff told them something I talked about in a rap or whatever. What I'm trying to figure out is, didn't they get some kind of story like this from a lot of the prisoners on purpose: we had to incorporate into our repertoire of gut wrenching "past incidents" a story that told how we were about to die, go insane, or go to jail if we had not luckily ended up in Straight instead. Was there some checklist in our file that made sure we had "confessed" such a story?
Or, was it just a cultural tradition played out at the host home/newcomer level?
I'm trying to figure out how "on purpose" this was.
Also, I think I have heard that each prisoner was assigned a particular Staff member, and that Staff person was supposed to make sure to call on them in a rap or something. Is that true? Were you supposed to keep observations of individuals? Were you supposed to specifically look at prisoners to see the expression on their face, their demeanor, their grooming or whatever? Was this something Executive Staff was doing in those raps?
Thanks for any answers or discussion.
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On 2005-08-19 23:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Okay, so my parents got this story, that I was going to run away to California. First of all, yeah right. Second of all, I think they got this story directly from me, although it is possible that Staff told them something I talked about in a rap or whatever. What I'm trying to figure out is, didn't they get some kind of story like this from a lot of the prisoners on purpose: we had to incorporate into our repertoire of gut wrenching "past incidents" a story that told how we were about to die, go insane, or go to jail if we had not luckily ended up in Straight instead. Was there some checklist in our file that made sure we had "confessed" such a story?
Or, was it just a cultural tradition played out at the host home/newcomer level?
I'm trying to figure out how "on purpose" this was.
Also, I think I have heard that each prisoner was assigned a particular Staff member, and that Staff person was supposed to make sure to call on them in a rap or something. Is that true? Were you supposed to keep observations of individuals? Were you supposed to specifically look at prisoners to see the expression on their face, their demeanor, their grooming or whatever? Was this something Executive Staff was doing in those raps?
Thanks for any answers or discussion."
Yes , this much is true. I am in contact with an ex staffer, whom is a good friend, that has confirmed that each staffer had serveral prisoners
they were to call on ...etc. IIRC each prisoner had a staff trainee and that trainee had a Jr Staffer asssigned.
So the whole " The one who motivates hardest gets called on" thing was a rouse.
By the way...the joints in my shoulders and wrists to this day are fucked up (hurt, make clcicking/popping sounds) from motivating.
_________________
Zieg Heil, Beeeeatch!
(http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Toothfairy_TP/hitler2gb.gif)[ This Message was edited by: linchpin on 2005-08-20 07:50 ]
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I once worked on a friend's arm and wrist who had painful carpal tunnel using a thing called myofascial massage, and she felt a lot of relief from this. I can try to describe it -- i put enough weight into my fingers to engage the myofascia, which if I have it right is the connective tissue that encapsulates muscles and connects them to bone, it's that thin skin you find on a piece of raw chicken. The idea is to engage and then very gently stretch the myofascia, maybe you can imagine how stretching something that was bound or injured could bring some relief. I think there are other people here who will have more specific knowledge on this. Didn't Carmel and someone else say they were massage therapists?
For joints, well I know many domesticated animals are experiencing good results from glucosamine & chondroitin supplements. Also, I think fatty acids and probably other nutritional stuff too is good for joints.
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I must add that I don't know if myofascial massage is recommended for tendonitis or the other things mentioned, you know, get a professional recommendation and all that.
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"dead Insane or Injail"
This was a direct lift from the seed, which lifted it from... drumroll....you guessed it folks, AA.
The AA dogma is that when you hit rock bottom, your only choices are death, insanity, jail or AA. Art Barker dropped the rock bottom qualifer and changed it to the seed, claiming that all "druggies" were headed for death, insanity or jail and the savior of the youth, 70s, was the seed.
"If the Seed doesn't become a model program in this country in five years, you can forget about the nation. The YOuth will crawl off and die, and it'll be a whimpering kind of death."
Art Barker, describing what would happen if the Seed didn't become the standard of treatment thruout the nation.
And there you have it....tainted history lessons.
:grin:
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The group was broken up into sub groups. Certain jr/sr staff was assigned to observe and call on particular phasers. They could tell whoever was leading a rap to call on "their" phaser to see how they were doing so they could intentionally observe them.
There were definately exec. staff assigned to phasers as they were the ones responsible for the "treatment" plans. This was compulsory as it was in the jhaco regulations. Clearly executive rap was staged in that everyone who put in for phase changes were the ones called on. One on ones were usually done by a staff member who had that kid in their "group".
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God what a tease... Tell me more about the way staff worked.
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My memory is seriously injured.. I would be better able to answer specific questions.
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i am so clueless about the workings of staff i don' know what questions to ask.
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Hmm, leme think a minute.
Sophie, why did you go on staff? I imagine everyone else's thinking was at least a little bit similar to mine. Before I decided to bail, I was staring down a plan involving getting my HS diploma by the spring after my 18th bday (would mean making up almost two lost years of school over the course of one semester) then finding or faking an avid interest in some oportunity as far away from any Straight location as I could get. I suppose sometimes, those words that flowed automatically from my mouth about giving back to Group and all that horse shit made an impression on the way. But I was thinking more about how to navigate this last, unexpected stretch of the gauntlet w/o getting set back or started over.
What were you thinking?
History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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What was I thinking.. hmmm.
Well, I was on fifth phase for about 40 days and was asked if I was interested in being a fifth phase staff in training. This meant..no newcomers,which was very appealing, no sitting in or standing beside group (I think). It meant getting to hang out with some cool people, Jim WH*** and Shane W***h.
I remember my mom stating that if you are ready to not be in group etc.. then why don't they just graduate you. I had no answer for her.
I was terrified of screwing it up and not getting to graduate. As I had heard of staff in training females being started over for allowing a male staff member to touch them or something like that. I remember sitting in the back of group watching Craig St***** lead a rap and Brady M****k smacked the bottom of my shoe..I FREAKED OUT.... I whipped my head around and said DO NOT TOUCH ME so everyone could hear..it was insane...
I graduated on the last day of the minimum amount of days you could be on 5th phase..which I think was 62. I went on staff and made my 4 or 5 dollars an hour.
My whole life I was a "joiner", and a leader. President of this and that in high school. I was always looking for a tribe, a community. Going on staff seemed like a way to join another tribe, be around people that I had spent the last 13 months around. I seriously had no idea what I would have done instead. All I knew how to do before I signed myself in was, being on tour with the dead and doing drugs. I had been doing that sort of thing for years. The only other job I knew was working in health food stores. I felt scared to do that because I always used drugs and met other users in that situation. So, I figured I should just hang around and be around other clean people.
My situation was unique in that I really do have addiction, I knew I needed help and I was scared to go back to the way I was.
After a while,(I really have no idea how long I was on staff) the fog lifted and I was better able to see the contridictions and atrocities. I started to date a "cop-out" and then all hell broke loose. I remember hugging my old host sister in the parking lot after getting in trouble with execs. and telling her how fucked up the place was. She copped out a week later and never went back. I told her parents about how fucked up stuff was and she got to stay home. Additionally, I saw that the staff knew that some kids in there didn't have drug problems...well, jr/sr staff knew and couldn't really do anything about it as the executive staff was relying on those families money in spite of whether or not their kids needed "rehabilitating".
I don't know if I answered your question. I haven't thought about this for a long time.
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Sophie said-----"Additionally, I saw that the staff knew that some kids in there didn't have drug problems...well, jr/sr staff knew and couldn't really do anything about it as the executive staff was relying on those families money in spite of whether or not their kids needed "rehabilitating"."-------------
I realize this is off the original topic, but I just want to to say thanks for saying that....I was one that never did drugs before straight....As horrible is it is to hear confirmation that those morans knew exactly what they were doing to me (and many others) for profit....in an odd way it helps to hear that from a former staffer....its almost like staff just said to me "I know you didnt belong there." As fucked up as this is...and I dont know why I really needed to hear it from someone like you...so thanks.
BTW you mentioned how staff could get started over for allowing member of opposite sex to touch them....over 4 months after I graduated I was caught 'holding hands.' I wasnt started over but they tried to get me to check myself back in and start over...(I was 18) and when I refused they kidnapped me instead.....god those people were fucked up!
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Yeah you did. And that's sort of astonishing. You really, really believed that was the safe bet at the time? Wow!
Leme see if I can think of another good one. How much did you really know at various levels of the laviathan? I remember working the phones one day and realizing that it had been the first time in many months that I was austensibly alone. And there was a phone. I could, technically, pick it up and call somebody. Or just walk out the door and keep on walking. But I just figured it was safest to assume that the room was bugged or somehow monitored. What was likely true? Was there really very likely a staffer lurking around the corner listening? Or a mic piping sound back to staff offices? Or did you rely more on the conditioning and our self monitoring/self disclosure?
668: The Neighbor of the Beast
--Anonymous Postman
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Let me clear something up. The whole touch me and I get started over thing was when I was a fifth phase staff in training..essentially, still on my phases but separated from group.
When I graduated, I got in trouble for dating a cop out..not the whole touching thing. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Antigen, It never occurred to me to sneak out or sneak a call.. I knew I was there of my "choice" and that I could go if I wanted. By the time was I alone doing things I was committed to graduating.
There was one point after I had been started over that I went to the trouble of putting in a formal withdrawal. I was craving my drug of choice intensely, trying to squeeze old phone numbers out of my brain, I was miserable. Instead of getting stood up etc.. several exec's pulled me aside as had one on ones with me. One a young lady... can't remember her name and one with a guy who used to be a phaser and became an exec.. can't remember his name.. Dave Hubbard? I decided to stay. I was supremely convinced that I would immediately continue my self destruction the moment my feet hit the pavement. And for a brief and effective moment those people helped me see how dangerous that would be.
After that day I zoomed through the phases, on each the minimum amount of days.
Anyway, It never occurred to me that the place was bugged etc. I became very close friends later in my life with a former and very briefly tenured executive staff member. He confirmed to me how fucked up everything was and never mentioned bugging or cameras anywhere..at least not in springfield. He most frequently referred to the twisted financial situation and the keeping kids who weren't addicts thing. I don't think he was aware of the physical abuse or totally understood the emotinal abuse. He mostly did the marketing stuff, and was never in group except to pick people to go on speaking engagements. He was there about 45 days and got the hell out...just quit and didn't go back with a wife and baby on the way.. he rocks!
So, long story short...it was the conditioning and self monitoring disguised as a sincere desire to graduate the program that kept me in line. (and graduating represented a commitment to changing my life and a false sense of security in my future happiness and success.)
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You were friends with an old executive staff member? Why didn't you put a bullet in his head?
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You have no idea what you are saying to me, so I shant wig out. This man became a hero of mine, he lived with the most integrity of any human being I've known. He quit..did you read that part.. Lived, past tense..he died wow..three years ago last week. weird.
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Did staff ever talk about the methods they were using?
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I was supremely convinced that I would immediately continue my self destruction the moment my feet hit the pavement. And for a brief and effective moment those people helped me see how dangerous that would be.
Sounds to me like you are still convinced that you would be DEADINSANEINJAIL if it weren't for the wonderful staffers at Straight, Inc. Wake up, Sophie, yeah, you may have abused drugs before Straight, may even have had a real physical addiction, but you don't have some mysterious "defect of character" that makes you either uncontrollably use drugs or be on the brink of "jails, institutions and death" if you don't work some mystical "PROGRAM". The Stepcult got you hook, line, and sinker, and I wish you would wake up and see how they've infiltrated your mind. You seem like a nice enough person, I know it will be kinda painful when you realize how 'washed you've been, but really you'll be better off and happier once you let your real self assert itself and stop being held hostage to the Stepcult's lies. You don't have some "disease", you just believe that you do. Why someone would choose to paralyze themselves unnecessarily is beyond me, but Straight did it's job pretty well, I guess. You are not, nor have you ever been, powerless over drugs. You just tell yourself that 'cause they drilled it into you enough times, and it has turned into some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Once you quit deluding yourself with the foolish philosophy of the Stepcult, your memory will start to improve as your real self begins to emerge from the murky depths of 12 Step propaganda that you have been drowning in.
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On 2005-09-09 16:38:00, Sophie wrote:
The group was broken up into sub groups. Certain jr/sr staff was assigned to observe and call on particular phasers. They could tell whoever was leading a rap to call on "their" phaser to see how they were doing so they could intentionally observe them.
There were definately exec. staff assigned to phasers as they were the ones responsible for the "treatment" plans. This was compulsory as it was in the jhaco regulations. Clearly executive rap was staged in that everyone who put in for phase changes were the ones called on. One on ones were usually done by a staff member who had that kid in their "group".
Shit....wasn't it was quite obvious that there was preferential shit like that going on..? Anyone with a pulse would notice this. Thinking that the person who motivated hardest usually got called on is like thinking that the person most qualified for it always gets the job. Duh.
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On 2005-09-10 18:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Duh."
:rofl:
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On 2005-09-10 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
I was supremely convinced that I would immediately continue my self destruction the moment my feet hit the pavement. And for a brief and effective moment those people helped me see how dangerous that would be.
Sounds to me like you are still convinced that you would be DEADINSANEINJAIL if it weren't for the wonderful staffers at Straight, Inc. Wake up, Sophie, yeah, you may have abused drugs before Straight, may even have had a real physical addiction, but you don't have some mysterious "defect of character" that makes you either uncontrollably use drugs or be on the brink of "jails, institutions and death" if you don't work some mystical "PROGRAM". The Stepcult got you hook, line, and sinker, and I wish you would wake up and see how they've infiltrated your mind. You seem like a nice enough person, I know it will be kinda painful when you realize how 'washed you've been, but really you'll be better off and happier once you let your real self assert itself and stop being held hostage to the Stepcult's lies. You don't have some "disease", you just believe that you do. Why someone would choose to paralyze themselves unnecessarily is beyond me, but Straight did it's job pretty well, I guess. You are not, nor have you ever been, powerless over drugs. You just tell yourself that 'cause they drilled it into you enough times, and it has turned into some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Once you quit deluding yourself with the foolish philosophy of the Stepcult, your memory will start to improve as your real self begins to emerge from the murky depths of 12 Step propaganda that you have been drowning in."
:tup:
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hooh boy, we're getting heavy theese days!
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"Sounds to me like you are still convinced that you would be DEADINSANEINJAIL if it weren't for the wonderful staffers at Straight, Inc"
I have no idea where I would be now if I had left then. I know I wanted to use drugs. I know that I was in bad shape when I went in there and I know that I was putting my life in danger when I used.
"you don't have some mysterious "defect of character" that makes you either uncontrollably use drugs or be on the brink of "jails, institutions and death" if you don't work some mystical "PROGRAM". "
I think its interesting that you are saying this, because I never alluded to having a defect in my character. I do believe I needed to change some pretty fundemental things about my life in order for me to be happy. Now as far as the mystical program part..well, I did need help changing some stuff. I was fucked up before I went to straight and was just differently fucked after. I didn't have money for therapy so I went to meetings.
I don't think its a matter of debating if the path I took was wrong.. I have already taken it. My life is incredible. I am in an amazing marriage, my relationships are great with friends and family. Work is better than I ever dreamed. I have peace of mind and I am truly happy. There are a million paths I could have taken..can't speculate what the outcome would have been with much accuracy though.
"Why someone would choose to paralyze themselves unnecessarily is beyond me"
Please tell me what that means to you.
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"Did staff ever talk about the methods they were using?"
Nothing specific I can remember..except the RSC stuff. That was developed by a psychologist from howard university whose name I cannot remember.
Uh..I remember having to watch a video but I can't remember who it was by or really any of the content. Sorry.. I had a whole notebook of stuff I was supposed to study. I remember a dry erase board in the staff office with kids names on them. I also remember a big board with pieces of paper and thumb tacks with HOMES assignments. These were very deliberate as well.
The one thing I remember clearly is that shane W. asked me what kind of staff member I wanted to be. He asked if there was a character in a movie I would like to emulate. I did have an idea about that and I spent one afternoon watching the movie and taking notes about the woman what I wanted to emulate.
that's all for now.
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On 2005-09-10 11:27:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
"Sophie said-----"Additionally, I saw that the staff knew that some kids in there didn't have drug problems...well, jr/sr staff knew and couldn't really do anything about it as the executive staff was relying on those families money in spite of whether or not their kids needed "rehabilitating"."-------------
I realize this is off the original topic, but I just want to to say thanks for saying that....I was one that never did drugs before straight....As horrible is it is to hear confirmation that those morans knew exactly what they were doing to me (and many others) for profit....in an odd way it helps to hear that from a former staffer....its almost like staff just said to me "I know you didnt belong there." As fucked up as this is...and I dont know why I really needed to hear it from someone like you...so thanks.
BTW you mentioned how staff could get started over for allowing member of opposite sex to touch them....over 4 months after I graduated I was caught 'holding hands.' I wasnt started over but they tried to get me to check myself back in and start over...(I was 18) and when I refused they kidnapped me instead.....god those people were fucked up!"
kidnapping at 18? ya that is fucked up...
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I could have burned straight (and 5 other people) on criminal kidnapping, conspiracy, assault, battery....even more fucked up....was that straight convinced (with lots of scare tactics) my parents to recruit three of their friends (not in the program), so all five of them abducted me and took me back to straight.........fucked up is right! For of all things touching someone of the opposite sex in the most innocent ways....those people were truly off their rocker...No wonder everyone was so paranoid about "eye games" or being accused of being "gamey" or accidentally touching someone being twisted into breaking a rule.
of course, the widespread kidnapping of minors was just as fucked up as far as I'm concerned.
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did you guys ever really care about the kids? I remember looking around group and just knowing, that everyone would happily walk their own ways, if it were for Figgy
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On 2005-09-10 20:36:00, Sophie wrote:
"Why someone would choose to paralyze themselves unnecessarily is beyond me"
Please tell me what that means to you.
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By assuming that you are an "addict/druggie/alcoholic", that you have some inherent fatal flaw that somehow the Stepcult could save you from. So you wanted to get high after being in Straight? So what? Big deal.... Getting high is as natural as eating, sleeping, having sex, or breathing. You seem to have swallowed the false notion that "you'll go back to where you left off" if you were to do a bong hit or have a beer. This is simply not true. I see no reason for anyone to be part of a cult the which has as the primary qualification for membership a self-limiting philosophy and belief system. Contrary to what Bill W., the Basic Text, and your sponsor tell you, you have willpower and freedom of choice. To buy into Stepcult dogma is to deny your humanity, your birthright as a human being. It is akin to psychic suicide or voluntary castration, the notion that you can't make your own choices, that you need a group, a sponsor, or a how-to manual written by psychotic Nazi sympathizers to make your life better. You are a human being with incredible potential, not some inherently fucked-up "druggie" in need of "treatment". So you had a problem with drugs pre-Straight. BFD. Don't you think it is possible that you could have dealt with whatever poor life choices you were making, and gotten yourself together, without succumbing to the ways of the Stepcult? I think you could have.
As far as "defects of character" go, no, you never alluded to it in your post, but you implied it by your acceptance of Stepcult dogma. It's right there in the steps, at least two of them. No, you didn't have any "character defects" that made you abuse (as opposed to use) drugs, you were simply a confused young woman who had made some poor decisions. The idea that Straight or any other Stepcult-derived method was necessary to preserve your life, or even to help you sort things out, is erroneous. To confuse real therapy with meetings is like confusing brain surgery with trephanation. Yes, you may have benefitted from some outside perspective on your life situation, but to credit the Stepcult for your present life and happiness is incorrect and misleading. The Stepcult is a false philosophy, built on lies, and it is a disservice to yourself to think that it did anything for you other than waste your time with meetings.
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Ok. I am going to need to think about what you have said.
I may have to respond in pieces. (just back from a long trip and groggy).
I do not deny that I have free will. I believe I can choose whether or not I use. What I also believe is that I have never been able to moderate my use by myself. I really did try before straight. Ok.. I'm too loopey to do this now. I appreciate this discussion and I will get back to it tomorrow. Thank you for not being disrepectful, but direct. Having an intellegent conversation about this is much better than having to fight about it.
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Fighting is underrated.
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I believe the anon is the famous RTP. The language/terminology is very similar to some earlier posts.
You state a lot of certainties that you simply can't know...no one could know. It seems you have a problem with 12-step dogma and reverse logic but I am seeing these things in your post glaringly. Albeit a very intelligent confrontation of 12-step groups (ok stepcraft if you like). It falls short when one asks, who cares? If it works for one, how can you possibly argue with that? Are you also questioning whether addiction even exists? We're not gonna take THAT many steps backward are we?
I can't help but feel you have a personal vendetta. What the problem is? :???:
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BTW, I'm sure I misquoted you. So sorry, I'm ready for the beating :wave:
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The only REAL addiction to anything is physical addiction, the kind that yields withdrawals. The rest is pure bullshit. (not RTP)
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Trust me, RTP has about a hundred more i.q. points than anyone still stuck in the 12-step shit. Now that doesn't make him better than anyone, it just makes him more likely to have something interesting to say.
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...and your point, ass kisser? :lol:
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I would gladly give my point to those who don't understand my previous post. But I wouldn't want to make them feel stupid by showing them how easy it is, with a couple of logical deductions, to know what my point is. I think everyone is happier this way. The people who have the i.q. to deduce the reasoning at once, some of them may even have snickered involuntarily, well they can go home tonight satisfied that they got it and are not missing out on anything. As for the rest, well, I spared them their self-regard.
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how thoughtful of you, and eloquently explained.
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sophie, it's interesting that you say you were never able to control your drug use by yourself, and i believe you. this does not mean you have a character defect, though. it may be that the drug you used was addictive. you're probably no different than anyone else except that you exposed yourself to whatever drug(s) you used. any of us could get addicted with enough exposure, too.
i guess the only defect you, and many of us, might have is that you were curious and willing to try it for whatever reason. some drugs, like opiates, cocaine, and alcohol in some people, are addictive, and cause changes in the receptors in the brain, such that the person suffers withdrawal when the substance dissociates and is metabolized away. cravings can persist for months or even longer, and it's not a character defect. it's chemical.
it sounds like you needed something or someone to help steer you away from a worsening addiction at that time in your life. you are fortunate you took the path away from addiction. but i also believe that straight was wrong. Even though it may have incidentally helped some folks like you in an important struggle you were facing, it hurt all of us terribly, in ways many of us cannot overcome in this life. long after the straight experience is over, the memories themselves are traumatic and intrusive. so many of us have family relationships that remain ruined specifically because of what straight did to our families. life's not long enough to repair what so many straight families went through.
it's a shame there weren't better alternative supports and guidance for you at the time, but with straight having a such a stronghold on american politics at the time, there wasn't funding or interest in much else.
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i meant to put defect in quotes, because obviously it's not a defect at all to be curious and take some risks.
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I actually fully agree with one of anon's points this time.
For some of us in Straight, we actually needed some type of intervention. Straight was an inappropriate intervention for anyone, whatever the problem, b/c it did more harm than good. Many of us needed help in our lives and our families, but that help just didn't exist. Some of us were just dumped in there.
On another point:
The "physical" definition of addiction is actually an oversimplification. Except if you consider emotions to be physical/neurochemical states, which you should. Yes, stimulating a mu-opioid receptor over and over causes a dependence to the mu-agonist. But this relationship is not the only type of addiction. Repeatedly chemically inducing the secretion of seratonin, melatonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, cyclic monoamine phosphate, dopamine, autogenous benzodiazepines, autogenous endorphins and enkephalins, and others create new neural synaptic pathways in the brain that are the backbone of addcition.
IE-if you stimulate the chemicals enough, you create a central dependence on this stimulation. You may not necessarily vomit or die or shiver (physically) without it, but you most certainly can be addicted. Drugs stimulate the release of these chemicals very well, but other things do too: food, sex, etc.
Research shows that not all of us are prone to addiction. Certainly curiosity and the desire to experience ecstasy are not "defects of character" or symtoms of addiction. But seeking these things repeatedly (in the face of consequences) to the point where the synaptic pathways have been created is beyond "normal" behavior.
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On 2005-09-12 15:53:00, shady grove wrote:
"I believe the anon is the famous RTP.
I can't help but feel you have a personal vendetta. What the problem is? :???: "
Wow, I'm famous! Good call, sg. Glad to know my fans are still interested.
Yeah, I guess I do have some sort of vendetta vs. the Stepcult--mainly the fact that they have infiltrated and undermined legitimate drug treatment in this country and others, and were of no help whatsoever, actually counterproductive, when I was trying to overcome a physical addiction to narcotics. The Stepcult was useless at best, harmful at worst, for me and many others that I have known. If I had to make a choice between being a junkie again or being a Stepcult believer, I'd break out a needle in a heartbeat. The damage heroin can do is not nearly as bad, and the recovery rate is much, much higher.
On 2005-09-12 19:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Trust me, RTP has about a hundred more i.q. points than anyone still stuck in the 12-step shit. Now that doesn't make him better than anyone, it just makes him more likely to have something interesting to say. "
How nice! Thank you for your kind words, anon.
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mainly the fact that they have infiltrated and undermined legitimate drug treatment in this country
I am very interested to know what this would be to you.
actually counterproductive, when I was trying to overcome a physical addiction to narcotics
Ok, cool, so you're no fan of 12-step groups, I GET IT
But what about those of us who DO find value in them? I wouldn't sit around dissecting your method of kicking (whatever it was). It worked for you, so great! Ya know?
On 2005-09-12 19:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Trust me, RTP has about a hundred more i.q. points than anyone still stuck in the 12-step shit. Now that doesn't make him better than anyone, it just makes him more likely to have something interesting to say. "
How nice! Thank you for your kind words, anon."
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Sorry, I'm still trying to figure out this replying stuff. My last post is in the qoute block above. Whoops.
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On 2005-09-13 19:32:00, shady grove wrote:
"Sorry, I'm still trying to figure out this replying stuff. My last post is in the qoute block above. Whoops."
Maybe if you smoked a little grass before posting, it would be easier to figure out (sorry, cheap shot, I know, but I couldn';t resist.....must be my powerlessness or one of my defects of character acting up again)
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I knock the Stepcult because I think it degrades those who fall into it's clutches. As a humanist, I find it's self-limiting premise to be offensive. As a human being, I find it aesthetically offensive. It does more harm than good, and, as a cult, it is more insidious than Scientology. It has other religions giving up space for it's recruiting drives ("meetings"), something even Scientology has yet to do, and it has infiltrated the justice system to the point where folks face jail time if they refuse indoctrination, again, something Scientology has yet to do. It's methods are ineffective, based on fallacious assumptions, and it is detrimental to other legitimate means of recovery from addiction simply by the fact of it's own cancerous growth. It has overshadowed other methods, even had it's practitioners sweep knowledge of other, legitimate techniques under the rug, so that it can continue the deception that it has been perpetrating since it's inception.
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:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
I believe that relgion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
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Sophie- that sounds like pretty heavy stuff for a teenager! If you don't mind answering, what drug was it that you were using, or "addicted" to?
I'm just real skeptical of any teenager who says they have a drug addiction. Most of them can barely sit through a movie without getting bored.
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Well, RTP, I respect that this is your opinion and thank dog we all can have one and share it freely.
But since you hae shared it I'll comment on it. It is a broad-brush sweeping generalization and frankly doesn't ring true with anything I've experienced and I've been going to "stepcult" meetings for nigh 17 years now.
The whole business of sending DWIs to meetings is totally against the traditions, and good groups know this. They won't sign slips there. But AA or NA cannot tell law enforcement not to send people there.
There's no little man behind the curtain, guys.
Oh and it offends your aestheitcs? Puleez. Who gives a fuck? The art of Jackson Pollack offends mine. How could that possibily be relevant at all here?
[ This Message was edited by: shady grove on 2005-09-14 05:03 ]
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On 2005-09-13 20:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
as a cult, it is more insidious than Scientology. It has other religions giving up space for it's recruiting drives ("meetings"), something even Scientology has yet to do, and it has infiltrated the justice system to the point where folks face jail time if they refuse indoctrination, again, something Scientology has yet to do.
Nope, that's objective fact, not opinion.
On 2005-09-14 04:59:00, shady grove wrote:
Oh and it offends your aestheitcs? Puleez. Who gives a fuck? The art of Jackson Pollack offends mine. How could that possibily be relevant at all here?
Well, you did ask.
Those who control the past, control the future; and those who control the present, control the past.
--George Orwell
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous
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considering that i'd already spent 14mo. in N.C. state school for boys,and 2 stints in "mental health" facilies, I always thought it was somekinda weak-assed boo-game.I was a staff trainee in st.pete/gandy and was supposed to go to sorry-sota, but one of the big ephiphanies [sp] of my life happened,so I said fuck it.My Dad always said I had a gypsy soul. I'm glad I did'nt get to be any bodys tormenter.It's been 26 years since my "program" I've moved along . I used to resent straight for not sending me to detox first as I was real dopesick for a while. But that was then,ya'know.