Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 17, 2005, 01:58:00 PM
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whats with all the bitching? why are there people on here 10+ years removed from cedu who are still complaining about how it fucked up their lives?
fornits.com - home of the people who were destined to have shitty, miserable lives from the day their mothers got knocked up. cedu's just a convenient excuse for them to say it's not my fault i'm such a reject. it's, uh, cedu's fault! yea thats it!
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Isn't it amazing how CEDU (and every other program discussed here) manages to draw in these obviously damned people? Why, it's practically a miracle!
Or, maybe, possibly, seeing as how there are so damned many people so many years later reporting similar experience, maybe there's some merit to what they say? Nah, can't be!
At the very least, compare the 99% efficacy claims to what these folks have to say. Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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i'm sorry but does it say 7,381 posts under your name? sweetheart, you are the ultimate example of what I just wrote!
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On 2005-08-17 12:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i'm sorry but does it say 7,381 posts under your name? sweetheart, you are the ultimate example of what I just wrote!"
Yeah, it does. That would be since I started hosting these forums over 3 years ago. Not one of those are about how fucked up my life is now because my life hasn't been fucked up since I unfucked myself a couple of years after escaping the Synanon based cult my family had been in for around 10 years. Something wrong having an avid interest in the topic? Some people think of dedication as a good trait. But who am I to say. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's actually a character flaw and the really high quality people are those, like you, who just don't give a shit.
When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with all other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty.
-- John Muir
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For me, CEDU was the most strange, surreal experience I've ever had, but I never talked about it--EVER--until last year on this site. Not one of my friends would have ever understood that wacky place. So for me, it's been cathartic and vindicating. Also, I'm just finishing grad school so I'm online a lot. The reason I still post on and off is because my parents had NO idea the type of place they were sending me to, and I want to make sure other people are aware of these schools before they decide to inter their children there, especially since the brochures look so damn good. What happened 10+ years ago is bygone and I really don't think about what CEDU did to me per se but I do want to encourage others to have their eyes open.
It's not that I don't think some kids need intensive help, I just think people should be a bit more savvy or creative in their problem solving skills.
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This must be a brainwashed staffer. I mean, why is this person even here? Why is this person being so hostile and disrespectful of how other folks are feeling?
On 2005-08-17 12:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i'm sorry but does it say 7,381 posts under your name? sweetheart, you are the ultimate example of what I just wrote!"
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haha hey jack, eat a dick
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I don't think that the Anon poster is being vindictive or anything. I think he/she is doing EXACTLY what this site was made for and that is to express personal opinions on any such topic posted here. I think that the fact that Antigen always talks about how her life is so "unfucked" is ok also. Like I said before, personal opinions is what runs this site, especially when it comes to CEDU. Maybe there was better wording for some of the things said, but looking around, everyone here (including myself) gets caught up in the moment and isn't really caring what anyone else thinks about their comments.
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I think the original anon poster who started this thread asks a really valid question. It probably could've been asked without the personal attack attached, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a good question because in all reality what he is asking is pretty much the basis of this site. Is there any need to dwell on cedu? Sure it sucked but think about the ages you were when you were there. 14 year olds to 17 year olds and a few 18 year olds as well - those can pretty much be the shittiest years of ANYONE'S life not just those who went to cedu. High school sucks its just the way it is! And we all know that you could've been somewhere MUCH worse for 2 years.
So lets be serious there are things about cedu that sucked but why sit here and complain about every little thing? Its worthless, and I have to agree with anon that a lot of people on here are just using it as an excuse for their lives being miserable!! And no thats not a blanket statement so give me a break.
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Anon and Puma, You still ain't getting it. This isn't about having a shitty time at CEDU like you had a shitty time at summer camp. This isn't about making excuses for pain in my life at all. In fact, I know a some of these anti-CEDU folks and they have very successful lives and great families of their own. It's about unethical, fraudulent therapeutic practices and allowintg that to endure for OTHERS. Maybe it's okay for you to say who the fuck cares, that was 10 years ago, but what about the people who are at these types of instituations today?
Maybe it has to do with being older and having your own family. I know Serb, Bryan, and I all have our own families and none of us would ever entrust a place like CEDU with our children, and we wouldn't want other children to go through the same experience. Even if a parent elected to send their kid to a TBS, they should do it with their eyes open. Why would you pay 100 grand for unaccredited, abusive, non individuated, cultic, coersive, highly contrived, isolation based "therapy"?
It's not just bitching; we've actually had parents PM us and decide not to send their kid there or pulled out a kid.
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No, you're not getting it. They're not the same place today that they were over 10 years ago. By the time they closed they barely resembled what they were 5 years ago.
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Yeah, man, why the hell am I on here, anyway?
Dammit. I hadn't thought about RMA for ages, until that silly brat camp show came on a few weeks ago and I caught a couple of minutes of it for the first time. Aside from being totally hysterical, it made me wonder what was up with the schools, so I checked online, only to find out that everything got shut down, and that all of this really horrid shit happened in the 90s, like a riot, and some kid hanging himself, and all of these lawsuits, and weird wacky staff shit like Richard raping Twila after they both left, and Dan Earle fucking a student, etc. (both of those guys were creeps) and I also found a link to this forum, so here I am.
I don't know why I couldn't have just dropped it and forgotten about it after I found out about everything that happened. I mean, why should I give a shit? I didn't know any of those students, and it didn't happen while I was there, and it vindicates my theory that the school was screwed up and that it was only going to get worse. So I should feel satisfied that my theory was proven correct, right? Well, that didn't happen, and I didn't end up feeling that way at all.
I'm over all the angst I myself went through because of the school. I dealt with all of that crap years ago and exorcised it from my psyche. (Plus, I do have some happy memories from there, and I could have been in worse places.) But after I found out about what happened, I felt really disturbed, and I don't know why. I kept trying to not think about it, but it kept coming back. So now I'm posting in this stupid forum and thinking about all of this crap again. So I guess maybe I'm not as over it as I thought I was?
Emotionally, it's been ok. Not really any seriously awful stuff, just a lot of thinking, and some slight feelings of being disturbed, but nothing traumatic or any anger or feelings of resentment or anything.
The only resentment I feel is against my own brain, or maybe my weakness of character. Maybe I thought I was stronger than I truly was.
Hopefully, the obsession will run out of gas in a few weeks. That's what I'm betting on. I don't want RMA in the forefront of my mind on a daily basis like it was right after I graduated. Eventually, I'm going to have to stop picking at this scab again. I really don't know what I hope to accomplish by posting in these forums, really. Maybe it's just some self-absorbed, self-indulgent, crap. (I'm just speaking for myself, here.)
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On 2005-08-17 23:59:00, puma046 wrote:
"No, you're not getting it. They're not the same place today that they were over 10 years ago. By the time they closed they barely resembled what they were 5 years ago. "
The time period doesn't matter, be it 10 years, 5 years, or 6 months ago, the one constant always remains:
CEDU HURTS KIDS, AND THEY DEFRAUD DESPERATE FAMILIES OUT OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO DO IT!
This has never never changed, so in this respect, the school has always been the same, regardless of the time period.
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I have no idea if CEDU was better prior to closing... but if it was, then why did it close? Why do more current staff and therapists still recount the same type of therapeutic abuses? Why did CPS stop sending children there? Why was there a very strident investigation of the place? I'm not sure how much kinder or gentler it could have been if systemically it was flawed. The whole thrust of the program is based on cultic tactics like those used in Life Spring or Synanon.
And, still, if parents are gonna spend a shit load of money to "help" their child, why not spend it on something that works? Why spend it on a place that simply does not have the expertise to deal with individual cases? Why spend it on a place with staff who are as fucked up as the kids working out their own crap on them, and getting off on the power trip?
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But what system really works? I was sent to Charter Hospitals, Group Homes, Counselors, Therapists, before my mom said nothing's working let's try CEDU. At least it locked me up from the real world for a few months and kept me sober long enough to figure out what the hell I was doing and wanted to do. I'm not saying CEDU had all the answers, but there is no perfect program you just do the best you can with what is provided at the time.
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On 2005-08-18 09:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But what system really works? I was sent to...
How about a couple of months touring Europe or the great outdoors or whatever with your mother? Wouldn't that have kept you away from bad influences, given you time to cool your heels? Screening pre-school kids for anti-social behavior is about as useful as screening the Christian Coalition for sanctimonious behavior.
Sanho Tree
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No that probably wouldn't have worked being that my father had just died and my teen sister was pregnant and my mom had a lot to deal with, and I would have been able to find drugs anywhere Europe included.
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There is no perfect solution, you are right. No such thing exists, in spite of the fact that it would be nice to be sent away and come out fixed. Still, I would never condone a place like CEDU and its tactics.
Serb mentioned a good boarding school once that he attended after CEDU... Also, maybe an Outward Bound type program?
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I hated CEDU just like everyone else, but I thank God at least I went somewhere where I could actually stay sober for 6 months. My mom was just doing the best she could at the time. When I was there I was trying to get into Juvinile Hall instead, but looking back I'm glad that plan of mine didn't work out. I met some really great people there and nothing too horrible happened to me there so whatever live and learn, I could have been in much worse places...
Maybe you don't know what it's like to have a out of control child how old are you? I have children of my own and I wouldn't send them to a place like CEDU, but I see how I drove my mom to extreme messures and at that point you just do the best you can.
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I know Rod (Serb) we went to CEDU at the same time and I agree there are other options, maybe my mom should have researched a little more, but that takes time and I was highly suicidal and action had to be taken immediately, sometimes you just have to go with the flow and hope for the best, it's just the way life works sometimes. I hope to learn from my experience and be more prepared should the occation arise in my own life with my own children.
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CEDU changed significantly by closing. It just got a lot softer. Very little yelling by staff, shorter and considerably less intense raps, far more privileges, faster advancement through the program, cushy punishments, etc. Did it still suck, well of course.
Were the staff all playing stupid head games? Definitely! Was it hard to play the game right back? Most definitely not. And every year it got easier and easier to play the game. There was a line between showing the staff what they wanted to see and hear and turning into a "brainwashed" look good. But it wasn't hard to avoid crossing it if you ask me.
When I think back 3 years to Boulder Creek, all I can remember are the friends I had and the good times we shared trying to bend the rules as far as they would go. The best friends I've ever had.
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On 2005-08-18 10:04:00, puma046 wrote:
"When I think back 3 years to Boulder Creek, all I can remember are the friends I had and the good times we shared trying to bend the rules as far as they would go. The best friends I've ever had. "
I get what your saying. You liked all the sneaking around and the danger aspect of it.
I respect that.
However, You could have had the same sort of experience at any normal boarding school,without all the humiliation & mindfucking,and for a lot less money than what cedu overcharged your parents to "fix you."
Furthermore, there was nothing special about cedu that facilitated making deeper or more sincere friendships. I made the exact same kind of friends that you did at summer camp. I've heard people swear that their army buddies are the best friends they ever had. My kid brother said the exact same thing about a guy in his fraternity.
Best friends can be made in any situation.
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[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-08-18 12:45 ]
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I think that any type of intense situation is incredibly bonding whether your friendships develop in the army or at CEDU. The reason why friendships seem to resonate more at CEDU is because all cults seek to bond the group together through isolation, highly contrived experenitials and intense interactions. After CEDU, you walk out into the real world and everything seems so pale by comparison. Who in the fuck do you relate to? That is why so many people who have been through the program have a difficult time acclimating afterward. I've heard this from both sides, the pro and anti CEDU contigencies.
In spite of the rigors, isolation, and group identity that the army encourages, I've heard people say it was a cakewalk after all the mindfucking at CEDU.
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On 2005-08-18 10:04:00, puma046 wrote:
"CEDU changed significantly by closing. It just got a lot softer. Very little yelling by staff, shorter and considerably less intense raps, far more privileges, faster advancement through the program, cushy punishments, etc. Did it still suck, well of course.
Were the staff all playing stupid head games? Definitely! Was it hard to play the game right back? Most definitely not. And every year it got easier and easier to play the game. There was a line between showing the staff what they wanted to see and hear and turning into a "brainwashed" look good. But it wasn't hard to avoid crossing it if you ask me.
When I think back 3 years to Boulder Creek, all I can remember are the friends I had and the good times we shared trying to bend the rules as far as they would go. The best friends I've ever had. "
How weird. I don't miss my friends from RMA at all, and I certainly don't consider my friends from high school to be the best friends I've ever had. I've found that the friends I have made in my adult years to have been built on a much more solid foundation of trust, understanding, and humor than any of my friends from high school.
They were good friends, though. We've just lost touch over the years. And I personally prefer to have friends where I don't have that association and constant reminder about RMA. Out of sight is out of mind.
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Yep,
..to put them out of business, How sweet it is? All those assholes out of work - and all the while they paid me a good wage to expose them for what they really were.
Ok the Guys and Gals who joined me and all my other user names are likely not here anymore as they have been replaced by older, and newer, voices - They are good voices - not whiners, but it takes one to know one - doesn't it?
But thank all of you ex staffers (uneducated grandiose child abusers with false personas) who call us whiners for allowing me, one more time, to rub your faces in the fact that all 7 schools were closed by the same hand that abused all those kids. All you dumb fucks who believed in that cult - gone
Please let me know where you go to work next, so I can meet up with you and see what your latest psuedo-treatment is. I'm sure that I can do away with that too. Then we can "smoosh." Maybe I can treat you for that post traumatic strees that they left you with after they fucked you. And, Hey, that pit in your stomach sucks, doesn't it. And, you all now know how you made those kids feel. From me, A special hug for all you false professionals I worked with, even the executives with fake PhDs from the Diploma Mill, California Coast College. If you feel too much pain, take my advice and go to Dr Ulrich and get the usual HUGE dose of Zyprexa so you can be Zombees and be thankful you don't have the added burden of all those bullies pushing your buttons and putting you at tables for weeks and brainwashing you with that psuedo-therapuetic bullshit you called therapy. Now - piss off.
Sincerely,
That little old maximus et. al.
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I think you have made a very interesting point. I am a grandmother, and can remember vividly trying (usually successfully) to deceive our dorm housemother. I went to a Christian College in the 60's, and there were a lot of rules to be broken....most of us worked very hard on breaking as many as we could without getting caught and thrown out. I think this is a normal thing for teens to do, regardless of their environment. What is not normal, is that some continue to believe that they are unique in their endeavors to deceive and assert their independence. l wish they could all realize that a certain amount of rebellion is perfectly normal, and helps shape your life as an adult who doesn't take arbitrary shit and is courageous enough to be defiant in order to assert your beliefs...it's called having character, and is actively discouraged by all of these programs. I should shut up before someone decides to create a program for defiant grannys!
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On 2005-08-18 12:11:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
Furthermore, there was nothing special about cedu that facilitated making deeper or more sincere friendships. I made the exact same kind of friends that you did at summer camp. I've heard people swear that their army buddies are the best friends they ever had. My kid brother said the exact same thing about a guy in his fraternity.
Best friends can be made in any situation.
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[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-08-18 12:45 ]"
I have to disagree, I think there was definitely something about cedu that made friendships that much deeper. The fact that it was hell. Now I'm not saying that's the only place it could go down like that. Your army reference is a perfect one. I'm just saying, when you go through a long, very miserable experience (or in the army, a long, very dangerous experience that puts a ton of influence on trust), the friends you make tend to be built on stronger bonds. You suffer so long and your friends are going through the same suffering, then it just inevitably brings you closer. I have some really good friends at college! But I really can't say I've found the same connection with them that I had with my best friends at bca.
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"I have to disagree, I think there was definitely something about cedu that made friendships that much deeper."
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Everyone's entitled to have an opinion...Just make sure it's really yours.
Cedu staff certainly pushed us to believe that nonsense, but that's all it is, nonsense.
I remember Guy Bonanno insisting in the Brothers profeet rap that I never had a real friend before, because "cedu hadn't yet taught me what a real friend was."
I told Guy that was bullshit, and then he proceeded to lead the group in screaming at me about being dishonest, and afraid to shed my"image",followed by the usual accusations of being "dirty", and dire predictions about how my life will be a complete failure,and "I'll be dead before 18!" :lol:
Guy, if you're reading this, I'm 29 now, and I'm quite happy with the way my life is going.
About MY BEST FRIEND:
I met my best friend when I was 9 years old, we grew up together, and now he's the godfather of my baby son. He was one of the people, cedu told me was "never a friend"; but you know what? Unlike all of my "cedu friends":
My best friend never ratted me out. He never joined in and helped someone else verbally attack me. My best friend never laughed when someone tried to publicly humiliate me by making cruel jokes at my expense. My best friend never pretended that "I don't Exist" and ignored me, soley because someone else told him he can't talk to me.
My best friend would never betray me like that.
No true friend would.
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Well I'm sorry you had shitty friends at BCA. Or maybe you're just a shitty friend yourself, who knows? My best friends at boulder creek certainly didn't give a fuck about bans. Nor did any of them ever rat me out. Once again, everyone is different my main man Serb. Gotta remember that. I'm sticking by it...my best friends from bca are still the best friends I've ever had. I could give a fuck less if that makes sense to you.
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If I were you I wouldn't waste my breath trying to explain the obvious here.
Of course everyone is different, of course a program (flawed or not) where people are thrust together to examine truly basic issues of life and existence is going to facilitate people coming together in very profound ways--and of course that may lead to strong friendship.
The fact is some people are just naturally programmed to hold onto resentment more strongly than others. To Serb it would be like a nervous breakdown, a personality melt-down even to face the fact that some good things happened at the CEDU schools.
For the rest of us, holding onto the true things in one's own experience is enough, it isn't necessary to either villify or idealize these programs---it's enough that we used those times in our lives to find something good---and obviously this has often been lasting connections to others for a lot of us
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Amen.
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On 2005-08-24 08:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
Of course everyone is different, of course a program (flawed or not) where people are thrust together to examine truly basic issues of life and existence is going to facilitate people coming together in very profound ways--and of course that may lead to strong friendship.
Absolutely. In fact, practically indisputable. I think everyone pretty much understands that. It's the glue that binds disperate young men into lifelong brotherhood when they go through a war together. It's the dynamic by which we survive natural disasters and form important bonds that last well beyond the immediate emergency.
The fact is some people are just naturally programmed to hold onto resentment more strongly than others.
Whaaaa :question: Naturally programmed to hold onto resentment? Or just not brainwashed to the point of being unable to accept that the trauma that brought about those strong bonds was, indeed, trauma?
If we were talking about a devistating hurricane or, say, the WTO attack, would you insist that the hurricane or attack were good experiences and that anyone who felt otherwise must be flawed in some way? By your reckoning, we shouldn't be at war w/ Al Qeda. We should be contracting them to administer therapy to the rest of the nation so we all can build survivor bonds. And the surviving families should stuff all those nasty, negative comments of theirs and, possibly, seek professional help in coming around to a positive attitude about it all.
Men seldom, or rather never for a length of time, and deliberately, rebel against anything that does not deserve rebelling against.
--Thomas Carlyle
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"The fact is some people are just naturally programmed to hold onto resentment more strongly than others. To Serb it would be like a nervous breakdown, a personality melt-down even to face the fact that some good things happened at the CEDU schools."
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Typical Ottawa5 response. You haven't changed a bit.
Of course I must be "Strongly Resentful" and "on the verge of a mental breakdown", that's the only possible explaination as to why I would criticize Cedu! :eek:
I know you wrote that, Ottawa, why don't you just come out and say who you are instead of hiding under that bag like your spineless son?
By the way, Antigen is right: I'm not brainwashed to the point that I accept that the trauma Cedu inflicted on me and so many other kids is a good thing.
Why are you so threatened by that???-- and don't tell me that you're not, Ottawa, because once again, you already took the time to post about me being "naturally programmed to hold onto resentment more strongly than others." Why would you do that, if you didn't feel threatened?
As for you PUMA...I'm glad you don't give a fuck about what makes sense to me, believe me, the feeling is mutual, my man. But don't go automatically making unfair assumptions about me being a "Shitty Friend."--- You sound like Ottawa when you do that, and this makes it hard to take you seriously.
Again, Cedu didn't know shit about frienship.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-08-24 15:13 ]
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"You sound like Ottawa when you do that, and this makes it hard to take you seriously."
How about addressing what Puma said instead of going into your normal Serb-astic rant---which includes shooting spite at random targets---real and imagined--- and looking for fights where there don't have to be any.
If I were Puma and the best somebody could come up with in an argument was that I sounded like "Ottowa" (??)---well, I probably would just assume that this somebody is an aggressive numb skull---and resolve to ignore him
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"If I were Puma and the best somebody could come up with in an argument was that I sounded like "Ottowa" (??)---well, I probably would just assume that this somebody is an aggressive numb skull---and resolve to ignore him"
Fine, fine, now I'm an "Agressive Numbskull" too.
Do you have any more labels for me?
It's all Typical Cedu bullshit: If you question or dispute the program, it's only because you are "this or that", and whatever else they can label you. Sheesh! Talk about "close minded, black & white, thinking".
By the way, Please allow me to point out that it is awefully hypocritical of you to accuse me of being agressive and "looking for fights where there aren't any", and then to end your post by calling me names.
Also if you read our exchange in it's entirety, you would realize that I did respond to exactly what Puma said...specifically him saying that "he doesn't give a shit what makes sense to me" and his baseless suggestion that "maybe I was a shitty friend." I say this is baseless because puma does not know me personally, and as far as I can tell, he said that about me soley because I disagree with him about cedu friendships.
As for your comments about it being in my nature to "shoot off random spite", well that's simply untrue;however, If you're really interested in finding random spite on this website, the best example would be the numerous posts on this forum by cowardly pro-cedu anons (like Anon Bully for instance), who specialize in viscously attacking total strangers, soley because we don't share their positive view of the cedu cult.
[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-08-24 15:03 ]
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I had good friends at RMA, sure. They didn't "rat me out" or anything. I was brainwashed enough that I ratted myself out before they would even think about doing anything like that. And even if I wasn't, they wouldn't rat me out.
It's just that my friendships now in adult life are better, more meaningful, more substantial. Some of the friends I have now I view as extended family. I could never view any of those friends I had back then that way.
And yes, I fully admit that what I went through was traumatic, but to compare it to war buddies? Come on. It's a question of degrees, here. I think that if they had truly been "war buddies" I probably would have had much stronger bonds with them, and I would probably still be in touch with them to some degree.
I just don't see any point in hanging on to that part of my life. (Of course, I contradict that by coming to a forum like this.)
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"By your reckoning, we shouldn't be at war w/ Al Qeda. We should be contracting them to administer therapy to the rest of the nation so we all can build survivor bonds. And the surviving families should stuff all those nasty, negative comments of theirs and, possibly, seek professional help in coming around to a positive attitude about it all." So said Antigen several posts back
Antigen---your head is so far up your...never mind---I don't think the quote above even deserves a response---the tortured reasoning behind your "point" would be funny if you weren't just being flippant about a deadly serious subject