Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 13, 2005, 10:11:00 PM
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You're a brain washed CEDU bitch. Mel's dead and so is Cedu. Quit talking about the glory days. You probably were sucking off team leaders back in the day and even now are a no confidence dumb ass who has to remember the good old days. Get a life.
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I have a life and a great one at that. and at least i don't hide behind being anoymous to voice my opinions. and no i wasn't brain washed. i didn't agree with that cedu tuaght but as you get older you realize that some things do apply to you. so if you think about who really is the dumbass
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On 2005-08-13 19:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're a brain washed CEDU bitch. Mel's dead and so is Cedu. Quit talking about the glory days. You probably were sucking off team leaders back in the day and even now are a no confidence dumb ass who has to remember the good old days. Get a life."
insulting people annonimously?
I think we know who the BITCH is here.
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I see tina marie defending the wassermans a lot, and talking about the gool old days at cedu, in a nostalgic sort of way. I don't know her, but I graduated from another cedu school during the same era that she did at RMA. I absolutely disagree with her observations about cedu in those days. Quite frankly, she's full of it.
I'm not the anon who attacked tina earlier. But I am older now (36), and no,I still find that cedu's teachings are still completely useless. Cedu simply doesn't apply to the real world.
The truth is: Mel Wasserman was a crook and a very skilled salesman,but nothing more. I attended CEDU highschool years before brown took over, before Kids were on medication. Cedu was every bit as abusive back then(possibly even more so)as it was after brown took over.
About the meds issue: When I was at cedu,there was at least one kid in my peer group who I knew for certain really NEEDED medication, but wasn't getting it because of the strict no drug policy. I'm sure most of the problems he was having at the school were related to being denied his medication;and kid really couldn't function well. It was obvious to me that cedu was seriously hurting him... So I guess in this one respect, cedu actually improved when brown schools took over and changed the meds policy.
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On 2005-08-14 08:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
I'm not the anon who attacked tina earlier. But I am older now (36), and no,I still find that cedu's teachings are still completely useless. Cedu simply doesn't apply to the real world.
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Thats it right there, cedu doesnt apply to the real world one bit. I found the longer I stayed at that bubble, the harder it was to readjust myself to the real world. You can't just talk out your problems with others in a cushy little rap where some 'facilitator' will make it all better for you. Not to mention that through all the bullshit restrictions and bans and work assignments and whatever, cedu still doesn't prepare anyone for the real responsibilities that life is going to bring from the age 18 on.
I don't care what cedu was like back in the 80's. It's their philosophy that is flawed, and since they've been running on the same philosophy since the beginning, cedu has been a false reflection of the real world since the beginning. It seems like a lot of life's hardest lessons (which, when overcome, inevitably make a person stronger and wiser) are taught between the ages of 14-18. Unfortunately, we were trapped in a bubble and never got the chance to learn them.
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I see this a lot at this site. Black-and-white thinking, that is. This thread epitomizes the whole concept.
Why do some of you have to believe that somebody is brainwashed to have benefited from a CEDU education---especially when you don't even know the person or their particular situation at the time they attended the school in question.
And I throw out a similar question to those who claim that a CEDU education is th best for everyone. How can one philosophy meet every student's needs perfectly---I mean think about that in the context of how many different types of teen and teen problems there are. And what good is any philosophy in situations where it's applied by unskilled or uncaring staff---as may have happened sometimes in some of the schools.
Those who project an unequivocal hatred for CEDU seem to me to be people who maybe are fighting something inside themselves still---whether it be ruminating continuing anger at being sent, refusal to leave behind the glorious defiance of that teenaged stage (for whatever reason)--or something more personalized.
And maybe those who think CEDU is the be-all and end-all for everyone have their own problems: a need to hang onto those adolescent years too, or a hope that something is the final answer---a dangerous retreat from the complexities of life
How about the idea that the CEDU philosophy contained some helpful ideas and approaches---and when it was applied in a setting where the staff were kind and reasonable, good things happened for at least some of the kids who experienced the programs under those conditions.
How about the idea that it is a philosophy which can be helpful but can still be improved--as it certainly will under the new leadership in Idaho and California?
I've personally spoken to a lot of CEDU grads and to me, the most well-balanced successful happiest ones seem to be able to give the schools some credit and yet still be able to discuss less than optimal things in the whole program or in their particular experience. For example some might have liked the raps but thought the propheets were a terrible idea or others really thought that the bans were useless but the Wilderness experience was life changing. This group of students are not often enough represented at sites like this because they have better things to do than argue in a two-dimensional way about their high school years
I would challenge any of you posters who either hate or idolize CEDU to find something in your experience that contradicts your present overall attitude---who knows: it could be the beginning of a more complex and richer and insightful understanding of your years (and the experiences of others) at these schools.
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I agree with you completely. CEDU is one big gray area, and I won't for one second say that I either hate or praise CEDU. I'm right in the middle. All I know is that I'm doing well, you're probably doing just fine, and certainly there are hundreds of other ex-cedu students out there that are doing just fine themselves.
What I said was merely a comment on one aspect of the whole cedu experience. I truly don't think that cedu, whether it is facilitated by competent staff or a bunch of underqualified idiots, could ever truly reflect the real world. Not because of anyone's efforts or because of what a student gets/refuses to get/couldn't possibly get out of the program, but simply because of the environment and the nature of the program. If you disagree, then obviously your experience was vastly different from mine, even though (I think) we were on the same campus, maybe even at the same time.
I definitely think many people could get something out of cedu amongst all the bullshit that needed to be blocked out. What that is differs for everyone, whether it be the experience of really good friends that lasts with you, a distraction-free environment to jump on a really good GPA for college, or maybe some sort of inner peace...who knows? [ This Message was edited by: dniceo7 on 2005-08-14 09:35 ]
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I never said that cedu was for everyone and yeah some people just didn't have a good time there. all i'm saying is that it is possible to come away with more insite that you can use if you choose to. and to the one who said that i am full of it that is your opinion which is fine but i know what i got from it and i use that to my advantage.
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it's impossible to be anywhere for so long and not get anything out of it.
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I take issue with this whole thing about alumni bashing each other because we all have differing opinions about the CEDU schools and what that experience really was. (and that goes for both sides of the fence. i.e. Pro cedu people taking others to task for being anti-cedu, and vice-versa.) My reasons for this are mainly because we were ALL "products" (for lack of a better word) of that same experience. We all had to go through that same thing.
Tina wasn't the one who wrote the propheets or decided on what the daily structure was for the school, or made you go down to the wood corral to work, or put you on a full-time for running away, or made you stay up for six days in the Summit. She had to do the same things you did. She just happened to like it or remember it in a positive way. If you must take issue with the CEDU/RMA experience, take it up with the facilitators of the school, i.e. the administrators and faculty, and Mel (or Brown). These were the people who set the agenda, not the students.
I DO understand the hostility, because pro-CEDU alumni come off like they are encouraging a program that personally hurt *you*, but I think it's important to remember that they went through the exact same experiences you did, and had very little power or autonomy of their own as a student at the school. (Despite what they may think.) Sure, they may have yelled at you in a rap, or "pulled you up" (god I hated that stupid term), but that was about it.
At the same time, the pro-CEDU people don't get off so easily, either. I think that making blanket statements in these forums towards anti-CEDU students saying that they just "didn't get it" invalidates their experience. There are a lot of CEDU alumni who had a lot of problems with the program, and also have some emotional scarring and trauma around some of their experiences, and being judgemental towards their understanding of what happened is not only hurtful, but goes against those very CEDU teachings that you pro-CEDU students hold so dear, does it not? (I'm also not speaking specifically to tina in this instance, either, because I haven't read many, if any, of her posts, so I don't know what she's said about the schools, but I have read other pro-CEDU rants in here that have said such insensitive things.)
But really, some of the backbiting in the CEDU forum is totally counterproductive. What does this accomplish?
As for me, I don't regard my experience at RMA so black and white. (I was there in the 80s.) Personally, I find the Wasserman theraputic ideology to be totally dysfunctional, abusive and corrosive. The staff were unqualified, abused their power, and were rather nutty. (I know, such a technical term.) Their attention to medical needs was downright negligent. I personally feel that I was brainwashed, (I loooooved the program, while I was there) and I went through several years of having to deprogram myself after graduation, as well as therapy and nightmares to get over the anger, rensentment and hurt from my experience there. But I'm over it. I don't hold my parents responsible. They had no idea what kinds of crazy things happened up there.
However, as abusive and crazy and disturbing as that place was, it still kept me out of trouble for two and a half years, and even though emotionally I left extremely weirded out, disturbed and confused, *situationally*, I left in a better place. i.e. I was ready for college, which I might not have been otherwise. So there were some logistical nuts and bolts plusses.
And I do have some positive memories from that place. (key word here being "some") Namely the wilderness experiences. One, because it was a break from actually being at the freakin' school, and two, I got to see parts of the country I never would have been able to see otherwise, and they were downright beautiful. I also got addicted to telemark skiing. (Okay, so I'm a dork.) and I learned how to rock climb and rappel, and I think those kinds of things are character builders, even though my knees are too crappy to do those kinds of things anymore.
Oh, and I also liked the sauna. That was fun, even though it was stinky.
In addition, I think I can safely say that there is zero risk of me ever being suckered into joining any sort of cult, because I can see all the signs from a mile away and can spot when someone is feeding me a line or a slogan or some feel-good bumper sticker jargon, so that's good.
I'm a firm believer in the whole thing about what does not kill us makes us stronger. The fact is, I went through this totally bizarre and surreal experience that not many people know about or go through. It was EXTREMELY disturbing, and it took me a while to get over, but I think that I'm stronger now for it, because 1. It toughened me up emotionally (not *because* of their therapy, but *in spite* of it), and 2. I know how totally full of shit people can be.
Ultimately, there really is nothing I can do about the fact that I went there, so the only thing I really CAN do about it is move on, you know?
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Reasonable and genuine, it seems to me---looking at all sides of a complex issue and still keeping personal perspectives on what the whole experience meant to the individual poster--for good or ill.
Now I would ask another question---since CEDU is in fact back---and will continue to be here for the foreseeable future---as will the various CEDU spin-offs that are currently in business.
Assuming that these CEDU type programs are going to exist, what were the things in them (like one poster mentioned the Wilderness aspect) that made a positive difference in at least one person's life---let's tell the new management how, if they are going to resurrect these programs---that they can make something good out of this whole deal (I have reason to believe that persons affiliated with the new outfit read this site).
Similarly---what could be omittted or should be omitted to make the best possible program---keeping in mind that there has to be kind of a spectrum of happenings and approaches to even attempt to reach all the different kinds of students who may attend these kinds of schools.
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On 2005-08-14 21:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Reasonable and genuine, it seems to me---looking at all sides of a complex issue and still keeping personal perspectives on what the whole experience meant to the individual poster--for good or ill.
Now I would ask another question---since CEDU is in fact back---and will continue to be here for the foreseeable future---as will the various CEDU spin-offs that are currently in business.
Assuming that these CEDU type programs are going to exist, what were the things in them (like one poster mentioned the Wilderness aspect) that made a positive difference in at least one person's life---let's tell the new management how, if they are going to resurrect these programs---that they can make something good out of this whole deal (I have reason to believe that persons affiliated with the new outfit read this site).
Similarly---what could be omittted or should be omitted to make the best possible program---keeping in mind that there has to be kind of a spectrum of happenings and approaches to even attempt to reach all the different kinds of students who may attend these kinds of schools.
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Interesting question. My problem is, when you start out with a faulty premise, such as CEDU did with its theraputic ideologies, no matter how good your intentions, (which were questionable to begin with) the conditions at your institution will gradually deteriorate and become increasingly detrimental to the students, no matter how nice you try to make it or how right you think you are, because the foundation is rotten. We saw this firsthand with what happened at RMA in the 90s, before Brown even came into the picture. (Based on what I read about with the lawsuits and that incident with the riot.) It sounded like it had gotten really out of hand. (And I thought it was bad when *I* was there!)
I guess this doesn't really answer the question, though. One thing I do feel strongly about is that I think the school has to have a good understanding about liability, for both the physical and the mental well-being of the students. Someone has to answer for something and take responsibility if something goes wrong. More importantly, they must ensure that they have done everything in their power to prevent things from going wrong to begin with. I saw none of that with the CEDU schools. They were more concerned with pushing their own agenda and their ideology. It was all about the crusade. They got so caught up in that, that sometimes, some students fell through the cracks and got hurt. (Especially since most of the staff were so inept and unqualified, and some abused their power.)
I think another thing would be to have a solid intake and screening process for students. Does your kid really need to be here, and is this the right place for him/her? (Although I guess the devil's advocate argument for that would be that Synanon had a pretty strict screening process, didn't it? By the time you got in there, you felt almost privileged to be one of the chosen.)
The third issue is regarding social sensitivity. How does the school handle issues such as race/class/sexuality/gender identity problems that may arise among students? The Wasserman model of "therapy" was far too dogmatic to deal with these kinds of issues, and when I was at RMA, for example, it was downright homophobic.
But back to the wilderness thing I was talking about in my prior post, I agree that things like ropes courses and wilderness experiences can be very positive for teens, and can help build self-esteem and character, but they aren't instant fixes, and they won't solve problems in and of themselves. (And they didn't for me, either.) They were just a nice memory. In addition, wilderness taken to the extreme can also be exploitative, such as survival schools. (Where liability can also be lax, and teens can die.) And the four day solo from the wilderness challenge, even though it didn't phase me and I actually enjoyed it (any time away from my peer group, where I could wake up and go to sleep any time I wanted to and just lounge around in the sun, was a good time in my book), could still be considered iffy waters in terms of safety, especially since they only gave you one bag of GORP to eat for a whole four days. (Didn't bother me, though.) And that one kid a long time ago died on his solo by accidentally cutting an artery, before they forbade you from taking your knife with you.
I guess one of the big things I ask myself when I see things like "brat camp" or think about my time at RMA is... what place does the teen behavior modification industry have in our country, if it should have one at all? But at the same time, I don't have an answer for what to do about teens who are seriously having problems that they may need outside assistance with. There has got to be another option besides lock-ups and boot camps. (I just don't think that go to the woods schools based off of 60s reactionary Gestalt therapy is the answer.)
I sometimes wish we could have the structure we had a long time ago, where family problems were dealt with within a villiage or a tight-knit community. Of course, not all of those scenarios were ideal, either.
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CEDU being one big gray area isn't the problem. There is no problem with different people coming out with different experiences. That will take place no matter the situation, setting or participants. However, for the folks in CEDU that left with a black cloud over their head that still have it there, you make that choice to dislike CEDU. When I first graduated I was pissed because of how I felt CEDU made me act on the outside world. Problem was, CEDU was out of my life...no going back. So then I had to take a step back and realize what I was pissed about. Yes, CEDU could have done some things to better people who were about to experience the real world, but does jail do that for people? No, they sure don't. No institution-like setting will help you to transition. For people like myself and others that may have experienced jail, I will tell you right now that CEDU was a GREAT place to "do time". I don't think it is right to jump down Tina's throat because she later in life realized that some of the things that people were telling her may have some sense in it. Although we all agree that some seriously incompetant people ran that place, sometimes even the biggest of idiots can come up with something useful to throw out.
As far as what CEDU can do to help students in the future have a better transitioning and a better stay overall, would be to truly work to the students' needs. I think they need to do a better job with the staff "screening" and make sure that they are getting people hired on that truly want to help children in the way that these children need to be helped. I think that the bans should be put to rest, because you just can't build social skills if you can't talk to anyone!
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i think everyone must have gained something.. and it probably wasn't from the program itself but maybe from the experience? just being away from my parents and away from all the bullshit gave me perspective and time to slow down and really think about myself. maybe it sounds gay but its true. i also made my best friends who are still there for me through it all. im not doing too well now and maybe it's because i don't get enough alone time to sit and reflect and whether we liked it or not we had a lot of that... i dont know maybe everyone didnt gain something but i do feel im better off now then i would've been
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On 2005-08-15 08:17:00, Karen wrote:
"just being away from my parents and away from all the bullshit gave me perspective and time to slow down and really think about myself."
It wasn't like that at all. I was taken away from my family,my best friends, and a life I cared about and placed into all of the CEDU Games & Bullshit!
Did I gain something from the experience? Sure, a lot of bad memories that I could do without.
As for perspective, well being in hell (cedu), splitting six times, and then spending 3 months hiding out on the streets just to get away, certainly gave me a lot of perspective on how the world really works. You might even say that in a way, I walked away from the experience at 16 "wise beyond my years".
Am I a better person for it? Maybe,but I don't know for sure. Part of me wishes I could've gone through highschool being a dumb kid like everyone else.
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On 2005-08-15 07:43:00, If u want to know..then ask wrote:
" Yes, CEDU could have done some things to better people who were about to experience the real world, but does jail do that for people? No, they sure don't. No institution-like setting will help you to transition. For people like myself and others that may have experienced jail, I will tell you right now that CEDU was a GREAT place to "do time"."
I am a little confused about this comparison. I was there in the 80s, so things may have changed later on, but were there ever any kids there whose other option was jail? Or do you mean that CEDU was there to interrupt that path before they got to that point? (I do think there may have been some kids who could have gone to CYA, though, so I guess that's pretty much jail, isn't it? Juvenille hall.)
You do bring up a good point, however. The options for troubled teens, even though there are many, aren't really all that great. I know you really didn't say that, or may have meant it at all, but it kind of made me realize that reading your post.
But I totally agree, I could have been in MUCH worse places. (Like in a state sponsored mental hospital on Lithium, for example, which was my option. No camping trips there.) However, it doesn't erase the fact that it was totally loony at CEDU. It simply proves my point how sad it is that there are so few helpful and functional resources out there for troubled teens, despite the fact that there are a million places you can send them, and that want your money.
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I should probably also add to what I just posted that I fully acknowledge that there ARE parents out there who simply over react and send their kids away, even though their kids really don't have any serious problems at all, which is truly unfortunate. (I wasn't one of those cases, however.) And that these places just accept these kids anyway, even though they really don't have any problems outside of the normal problems associated with being a teen.
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Yes, my other option was Juvenile Hall and after that didn't work out, my mom and the court order got me to BCA. Basically the court left it up to my mom and she didn't see another way around my crimes. However, my crimes didn't even MATTER at BCA. All they wanted to talk to me about was my "guy" issues. That is why I feel that BCA didn't give me much, but my mother went broke and then some to help save my life. There simply aren't enough programs for teens in trouble. Whatever happened to the days where kids could go to the boys and girls club to get off the street. Those kind of programs are state assisted in a lot of ways that BCA (CEDU)isn't, yet they don't have money coming in to help support the program. Too sad!
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How interesting. I had no idea that when a kid is convicted of a crime, they were allowed an alternative to juvenille hall. That's a relief.
And yeah, whatever happened to girls and boys clubs?
***side note***
BTW, what was the whole story with the Idaho campuses? RMA was at Route 1 when I went there, (I think known as the Cow Creek campus. You know, the farm, the big "house", Garden house, walden, hobbit, the SWAMP, the pond, the sauna, the teepee.) but then I heard that NWA moved in there and RMA went to Naples (Naples? Isn't that town like, one dirt road and a gas station?) So where was the BCA campus?
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BCA campus was on the opposite side of the soccer field that seperated it from RMA. You speak of a farm and depending on how long ago you were at RMA that could've very easily been BCA before it was built. No, they don't allow alternatives for Juvey, I was kicked out!
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In some cases they do allow an alternative to juvey, but it depends on the state you live in and the crime you committed (mine really weren't that serious), and your parents also better have a good lawyer. In my case, I was looking at about 6 months there, but somehow (I really don't know the technical details of how it all worked out, I just know the result), my parents managed to swing it so I would be sent to BCA instead.
The courts didn't require Ascent, but my parents sent me there anyways. Apparently, the courts would only require me to stay at BCA for a year in my case, but of course my parents decided that the full program was in order. I spent 22 months in Idaho (ended up getting pulled after the I & Me) instead of 6 months in Roxbury...as much as BCA sucked, I got off easy. That's how it can happen in Massachusetts, and I had a friend at BCA from California who had the same situation. As for other states, I really don't know. [ This Message was edited by: dniceo7 on 2005-08-16 10:15 ]
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Where is McEllen?!!! Hee hee, just wanted to say wassup!
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Ang-
Was that that great kid who kept a rubber chicken in his pants? I loved that kid!
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Mike?
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On 2005-08-16 10:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"BCA campus was on the opposite side of the soccer field that seperated it from RMA. You speak of a farm and depending on how long ago you were at RMA that could've very easily been BCA before it was built."
I was there in the 80s. The farm was right by Bruce Wilson's house, and the swamp. (One of the boys' dormitories.) It was also near Mare and Dan's house. It was where Challenge worked, but then they changed it to where Quest worked.
You mean they turned the farm into BCA?? That must have been a very small school! (Although there was that loooooong stretch of alfalfa field between the farm and the RMA soccer/volleyball fields, so that field probably became part of BCA as well.)
What happened to all the chickens? :eek: (I guess they were 'et.)
I hated those stupid chickens.
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BCA wasn't all that small. There were the RMA basketball courts, then the long soccer field that was right next to that massive cow field, part of which was turned into BCA's own baseball diamond by a bunch of students in 2001. From there to the road was BCA's campus. It was about half the size of RMA's campus, give or take a little.
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fuck all those animals. the greatest ever was when mcellen headbutted the goats and then beat their asses. and fuck brandon mcneely and his burros.
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Well if you know McEllin, maybe I know you. Who are you?
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remember me? a good frind from BCA...ahhh maybe not
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tina marie renaldi licks my schweaty balls
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Why don't you grow the fuck up. and grow some balls. at least i put my name to my opinions. how about you? Own up to what you have to say. You can call me what ever you want and say what ever you want. The simple fact is that you are immature and aparently have no life if you have to sit here and put people dow. I never asked anyone to agree with me or even like what i have to say. That's why it is called an opinion. So again I will say grow up.
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and again I will say - lick my balls
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Quite a bidirectional flow to this thread here. From inane, to thoughtful, and back to inane again.
Of course, what do you expect from a thread with a title such as this one? ::ftard::
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no one asked you to post.
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On 2005-09-04 10:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"no one asked you to post. "
I didn't know we needed invitations to post in forums.
Did CEDU damage you, too? Sorry to hear that. ::bangin::
Run that anger! That's riiiiiiight!
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no one said anything about invitations. it's just really stupid when people get all butthurt about the fact that they have to defend some ideal that no one even asked them to defend in the first place. bunch of self righteous mofo's around here.