Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 10, 2005, 11:48:00 AM
-
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... ts-new.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/whats-new.htm)
-
The following document is available to be viewed or downloaded:
-- 96 page complaint filed in Los Angeles Superior Court against
WWASPS, Teen Help, and several WWASPS "schools" by attorneys Ed Masry and Henry Bushkin. The complaint states that it was filed on behalf of parents and former students to obtain redress for the allegedsystematic frauds, deceit, violence, and other corrupt and unlawful practices perpetrated upon parents and their minor children for the financial benefit of the defendants. Be patient because this is a large file and
may take some time to open.
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... ts-new.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/whats-new.htm)
-
Anybody notice how long these parents went without talking to their own child?
How many of them used abductors-for-hire?
The poor medical care and non-existent education?
I'm glad the parents are seeking restitution but let's be real. It's their kids who suffered the consequences of their parents "desperation".
What do the kids get out of this lawsuit? Why are the parents even involved?
:???:
-
I haven't read the document yet, but if that's the case, yes the kids should have their own claims. In my situation parents and child's claims were seperate. Parents were reimbursed for all expenses related to the placement- including tuition, LD calls, travel expenses, etc for the full time their child was there. The kids recieved settlements for damages in varying amounts depending on the degree of abuse they had endured.
Don't forget the kids. They are the one's who lived it.
-
Thought Sue Scheff was to be part of this lawsuit. Did she decide WWASP didn't abuse her daughter afterall?
-
I read the entire document. If it holds up through litigation it will be ONE RIGHTEOUS POP.
We'll have to wait and see where the hammerstroke falls the hardest...
-
Question - After almost 2 years of the threatened "class action suit" is this the best they could do? Where is Karen BUrnett (Buzzkill) - what about the COlburns, Spots (Sue Kolbo) yes, Sue Scheff - where are all these people that have been badmouthing these wonderful schools, but haven't joined the suit??
So few on it and from what I've read, so twisted. Is this even really the legal document, or is it the made up for the internet version?
Where are all those hundreds of disgruntled parents and students?? Oh, not really there? How NOT surprising.
Just my two cents - :wink:
-
I didn't see much detail on some of the plaintiffs, but the boy whose shoulder was broken and did not receive medical help for "many days" certainly has good cause for suing the pants off WWASP. I broke my shoulder two years ago. I cannot imagine going ONE day without medical help! The pain alone requires medical intervention, and the shoulder must be stabilized to avoid further injury and to facilitate proper healing.
I am not sure, but I thought I recognized Kerry Layne Brown as someone who left messages on VOY and others from TB recognized him as one who was seriously abused. I could be wrong but LayneLane Brown sticks in my memory.
I am not a lawyer, but this does not appear to be a class action suit. This appears to be strictly for those who can prove they are victims of abuse. Maybe they are trying to set precidents.
-
There could be valid reasons that many people may not be named in the complaint as plaintiff's. Here's one possibiliy: Maybe some people just dont want to go through the emotional hell all over again. Do you have any idea how long litigation can drag on? Sometimes for years. It would be perfectly understandable if some people just want to get on with their lives.
Reliving the emotional hell is the exact reason why I didnt file a civil suit and press criminal charges against Straight when I definitely could have done so, on solid legal grounds I might add.
Unless you are one of the attorneys working on this case, its impossible know why its limited to those people. And BTW, from what I can tell, from what I've learned in law school and my experience as a law clerk, the legal theories appear sound.[ This Message was edited by: Nonconformistlaw on 2005-08-13 17:04 ]
-
Some of those folks mentioned never were to interested or inviolved with this particular action.
Some have pulled their case.
Others are still waiting in the wings.
All we can do is wait and see how this plays out.
-
Does anybody have a copy of what David Pollack filed in Florida?
My understanding was he was workling with numerious florida cases and I am sure at least some have been filed.
-
On 2005-08-13 17:02:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
Maybe some people just dont want to go through the emotional hell all over again. Do you have any idea how long litigation can drag on? Sometimes for years. It would be perfectly understandable if some people just want to get on with their lives.
Reliving the emotional hell is the exact reason why I didnt file a civil suit and press criminal charges against Straight when I definitely could have done so, on solid legal grounds I might add.
One day, in around `84 or so, a good friend who was a two time program parent called me up to let me know about a case filed against Straight, Sarasota. Your thoughts are exactly mine at the time. Gee, what's more valuable, a shot at getting those fuckers or my sanity. Justice, sanity, justice, sanity. I was a new mother then. I needed every ounce of sanity I could muster. Not at all sure if I wish I had chosen the other way at the time.
The informed opinions I've heard about this particular suit are not promising. One theory is that they filed everything they could all in Cali in order to stave off the threat of malpractice charges. This is classic jaberwokee, to my mind. I would think it's a bigger crime to file a loser than to not file and just give back whatever legal fees and retainers may have already been paid. But, in the wisdom of the courts, I guess it's quite plausible that it's the other way around.
As far as the original plaintiffs being conspicuously missing, maybe these lawyers do have a good handle on what they're dealing with and have just rid themselves of the poor plaintiffs. Bear in mind that it is very difficult for a lawyer to find competent clients among program parents. It's frustrating, I know. But it seems to be an enduring problem. When the programmies place all the blame on the parents, maybe they're no more wrong than P.T. Barnam was when he, unapologetically noted, there's one born every minute.
But I don't have any inside info on this at all. If I did, I'd be keeping it zipped up, as I suppose those who do are.In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
--Unknown
-
Two cents....
Wonderful schools?
You are so uninformed. Brainwashed . My child had a dislocated shoulder when we went to TB to pick him up. The family rep stated she was glad he was going home because he cried all of the time. Wonderful schools???? The Jamaican is still calling my home. I will see that man and his boss in prison some day. Get a clue.
-
Maybe some of the parents/kids mentioned below "settled" with WWASPS privately?
Re: Ryan F. (CTBS) He was supposed to be the lead plaintiff in the class action lawsuit talked about in the link below and IIRC, he was also consulting on Coldwater, The Movie. Whatever happened to him and why isn't he part of the lawsuit that was filed?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... orum=9&136 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2880&forum=9&136)
Just seems weird that Ryan F. faded away since he was so vocal during his Television interviews. I hope it all turned out okay for him and his family.
:???:
-
On 2005-08-13 18:12:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"Does anybody have a copy of what David Pollack filed in Florida?
My understanding was he was workling with numerious florida cases and I am sure at least some have been filed.
"
Who is David Pollack?
-
Hey Antigen-----Or do you prefer Ginger?
In my situation, the fact that I may have had to bring down my parents (jail), in order to take on Straight (criminally & civilly), also was a factor, in addition to my need for 'sanity' as you so accuratly put it. Emotionally I just could not handle a legal battle.
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the problem is not so much in the validity of the legal theories of the plaintiff's complaint, as much as the HUGE problem that the whole drawn out discovery process takes, where WWASP attorney's would probably STONEWALL every discovery (AKA information, etc.) request that hits them. That would make it very difficult to build a case against WWASP in and of itself. Finding witness's at all, who also "appear credible" is also a potential problem I think. Not to mention running up huge legal fees for both sides, but then again...WWASP can basically feed $ to their attorney's longer.
In other words, "he who has the most money wins, he who runs out of $ first loses." Doesn't always work this way, but it happens all too often. And many attorneys will not work on a case once the $ stops flowing....for attorneys handling the plaintiff's case its all about profit as much as it is for WWASP and their attorneys. ::rainbow::
-
I agree with much of your post NCL. But I also know there are clients out there that have invested way too much emotionally in their cases and can't/won't look at their cases objectively. A good attorney tells em up front and a good client follows the advice given. A client has to realize when to drop something and maybe take another tack. I wish there was any easier way.... if nothing else the system is set up as incentive to hopefully not have to use it. People make noise about women filing sexual harrassment suits against employers to make a fast buck......... anyone who's been there knows that's not the case. Lawsuits of any flavor are grueling, painful, expensive and time-consuming. Which is unfortunate when its about something serious - like trying to get your child OUT of a program.
So now Im asking myself how much is too much emotional investment when it comes to your child? Or shutting down a program? Or just regulating an industry? And how much money is too much money? And who winds up winning?
_________________
Its never too late to procrastinate[ This Message was edited by: Shortbus on 2005-08-14 13:43 ]
-
Hey Shortbus, you said----"But I also know there are clients out there that have invested way too much emotionally in their cases and can't/won't look at their cases objectively. A good attorney tells em up front and a good client follows the advice given. A client has to realize when to drop something and maybe take another tack."----
Yup, also very true. Part of winning a war, is knowing when to cut your losses and back out, and then redirect your energies through another course of action, or simply move on, whatever the case may be. And sometimes the lawyer is the only one who will realistically be able to advise clients on those options because it is sooo emotional.
I think its safe to say, that fighting WWASP's and others supporting institutionalized child abuse, is a war no matter how you look at it. And the ones that pay the highest price in all this mess, and suffer the most, are enlightened suffering parents and suffering kids.
What is VERY discouraging is that many people with strong legal claims never come forward because they dont have the financial resources to pay a good attorney...and I doubt free/low cost legal services agencies are properly equiped to help those families. ::rainbow::
-
Not long ago I remember a now 18 year old boy who was contemplating suing his mother for impounding him in some behavior mod program.
His biggest complaint aside from the physical abuse he endured was his claim that he was denied an adequate education for 2 years.
Said his mother admitted she did't send him to get an education at the "boarding school" but to isolate him from friends she did not approve of (namely a girlfriend). He had a 4.0 GPA and did not smoke, drink or do drugs.
The nature of the lawsuit was child abuse and neglect leveled against the mother. That even if his mother did not know he was being maltreated, she should have known (ignorance is not an excuse) and would have known had she believed the numerous news reports and/or gone to look at the place herself.
Instead, she buried her head in the sand and left him there for 2 years. He left when he turned 18, she was planning on keeping him longer if she could have gotten a court order.
Personally, I think kids should sue their parents in cases like these where the parent abdicates their duty as a parent and as long as money is no object, can afford to keep their kid under lock and key until they turn 18.
-
Well, I would never advise anyone to go at it through the legal system. I really wouldn't. Why? Cause, all of the times I've considered it, I've always come to the same conclusion. It's a lot of effort, a lot of turmoil, a lot of expense w/ very little chance of a good outcome and a larger chance of a bad one.
I think it's just not the most sensible, logical means of addressing this particular problem, though it does have its benefits. If someone is willing to go that route, I won't discourage them, either. For one thing, I could be dead wrong. And I just know so many good, intelligent and competent people who do see merit in that strategy.
That's my take, so far, on approaching the problem through the 3 estates of government. But that approach always encompasses the discovery process, which nearly always contributes to what I view as a far better tack; the 4th Estate, our vaunted free press and freedom peacably to assemble.
Step back and take broad view of the industry. What do you see? They're promoting a lot of different ideologies all the way from the religious reich (VCA, NYHM, for example) to newage native culture rip offs like SW. And there are different structures. Some look like extremely tough boarding schools, some still operate out of warehouses by day, host homes by night. Some are conducted out in the wilderness or in a ranch type setting. All of these differences serve to accentuate the salient commonalities.
Lifton and Singer's criteria for thought reform describes those commonalities almost verbatim. One of those core principles common to so many of these programs is that they strictly control communication. "No talking; out in group, to old friends, behind backs; what goes on here stays here." That's the weakest spot, in my opinion. If you can subvert that athoritarian control somehow, the whole thing unravels. And you'll note that all this free talking 1) really annoys them 2) often draws litigation and threats of litigation and 3) best of all, they routinely lose in this arena.
RAMPANT Talking Out in Group!
:rofl: Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
--Edward Everett
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
-
Another problem with lawsuits that I don't see
addressed on this thread is that some of these
programs, and WWASP looks like one of them, are
good at moving money around from corporation to
corporation. That could make collection hard even
if you win in court. In turn that could make it
hard to get a lawyer to accept your case.
BTW Antigen, do you know if Fred Collins ever
collected the $220,000 that he was awarded from
Straight?Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
-
Why not go to programs with some giant megaphones and have a 'talk-in'? Hell, my big mouth doesnt need a megaphone, just a funnel to direct the LOUD at a particular area so Im not just an indiscriminant motormouth. The real issue is we'd have to decide on what we want to say, and be able to say it from the edge of their property if the program building is secluded from wherever we could protest.
It wouldnt have the same effect as the protests of that 'straight-camp' because they dont go home at night, and theyre not even allowed to look outside, but at least it would let all of us vent :silly: Innocence implies the ability to restrain from the initiation of aggression, and to question those who don't.
Sorin Cucerai
-
I really think litigaton is for the few and those that wish to take it down and dirty. Indeed, its more of a side attack against the industry than anything else, because few people have the time and cash to do it. Supporting a few large lawsuits would be wise, but we need to focus on protesting, doing stuff on the net, and getting the news involved. I believe you guys agree with me, well from what I have seen anyway.
-
http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/impor ... wasps.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/important_notice_of_lawsuite_against_wwasps.html)
-
All the information in that link posted from help your teens is out dated.
If anyone wants to contact the attorneys in this case they will need up dated contact info. I can provide it, if you want to email or PM me - but I am not sure they want it posted on Fornits. I doubt it.
This "notice" was the cause of some argument and friction between the attorneys and Susan. She took it down, but I guess it is still available as an archived page.
-
On 2005-08-13 16:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is this even really the legal document, or is it the made up for the internet version?"
I have the original complaint. It is legit, check with the L.A. Superior Court. For a nominal fee you can view the filing. This suit is for real. As for why more complainants aren't listed: This is a DIRECT ACTION SUIT. Not a CLASS ACTION. There may be more suits coming. Bushkin also said he plans to modify the complaint to include something like 60 more complainants.
Just my two cents. :wink:
-
I actually think suing would be the most effective way to bring down the business. A lot of parents don't care that these places are abusive. There will always be parents who will send their kids to these places. The places will only cease to exist when they lose money. Suing these places for intentional torts is great, because the insurance companies won't pay the legal fees. Even if they don't have to pay a big settlement or whatever, they're still paying for it. Unfortunately, a lot of kids don't figure out that they were wronged until after the statute of limitations is up.
Well, that's just my two cents.
-
Stat of limitations only counts from the day they turn 18... :smile:
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
-
Does anyone have a phone number to reach David Pollack's office...or city he's located in??
-
On 2005-09-13 20:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Does anyone have a phone number to reach David Pollack's office...or city he's located in??"
Is this the dude that was on Montel Williams? Sheesh. Why would you wanna hire that guy?
-
I can get you that. Write me.
-
BuzzKill, any information on how the lawsuit filed by that firm in Los Angeles is doing?
-
I hear things.
If you know me, and want to call me, I can tell you what I've heard.
-
What's going on with this lawsuit? How come we never hear anything about it? Did more kids sign up? What about a settlement????
-
On 2005-08-17 15:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-08-13 16:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is this even really the legal document, or is it the made up for the internet version?"
I have the original complaint. It is legit, check with the L.A. Superior Court. For a nominal fee you can view the filing. This suit is for real. As for why more complainants aren't listed: This is a DIRECT ACTION SUIT. Not a CLASS ACTION. There may be more suits coming. Bushkin also said he plans to modify the complaint to include something like 60 more complainants.
Just my two cents. :wink:"
Bump
Any updates? Was Layne a part of this direct action lawsuit and have other plaintiffs been added????
-
Layne was supposed to have been represented by Henry.
I don't know if Henry is taking new clients in this case or not; but I doubt it. If so, I would be interested in that.
-
Buzz, why don't you just call this attorney and ask? Attorneys do take phone calls.
-
Why don't I?
See how it goin -
Yeah - I might have to try that.
-
Gosh, that is just so sad about Layne passing away at the young age of 24, and perhaps before his claim was settled. For all he went through, jeez! I would imagine his parents are part of the lawsuit though, painful as this must be for them. My heart goes out to all the victims, children and parents alike. Good luck to all of you!
-
The fee for a lot of litigation are based on a contingency. But they are still expensive out of pocket to the clients because expenses in a major trial can be high. I beclieve David Pollacks suit was dismissed on jurisdictional grounds. A lot of good suits will never get on board because the parents will be put on trial and investigated. They have potential liability and might be found negligent. Not a lawyer.
-
Well, I don't know why parents would be investigated, what for? Trying to help their kid?
But I do agree with you BP that litigation of any kind is expensive, and for many, the gamble simply isn't worth it unless they are judgement proof, which most people aren't, especially parents who spent all their money on a program.