Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Nonconformistlaw on August 08, 2005, 10:57:00 PM
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Less than two weeks ago dateline jolted me out of my comfortably numb state when it aired its piece on program restraints. And then I found this forum immediately...
I didn't know there were so many Straight and other program POW's out there....and so I read, and read and read....so many things that I have forgotten about....at times I had to stop reading because I couldn't handle it...way too much reality...
I always thought I was able to put Straight behind me...and after years of post-Straight stuggling in every way imaginable...I became, for lack of better words, an "over-acheiver." I guess you could say I drove myself to "sucess" out of sheer determination to forget Straight, forget the label of being a bad kid/druggie, and partly, to prove every last one of them how wrong they were about me.
I thought I finally silenced the Straight demons, calmed that uneasy haunnted feeling that never goes away, I though I had it under control...
Yes Ive always been very aware of the anger that I carried with me, knew perfectly well how much Straight damaged me, have felt resentful every day since my incarceration in Straight and the kidnapping incident. But since I knew there wasn't a damn thing I could do to change the horrors of Straight, I just refused to think much about the entire experience.
And now.....I read on the verge of tears everyone else's experiences in Straight, nodding, yeah I remember that. But yet I cant cry, I cant break down, cant even comprehend my own emotional turmoil that is just beneath the surface...nor can I reach it...BUT I know its there....
I feel shell-shocked, just like the day I was first sat down in group....I'm numb and its so damn uncomfortable...and at the same time, I feel as if I'm on the verge of an emotional breakdown of sorts...
What the hell is this? After 20 years how is this possible???
Can somebody please explain this to me?????
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Fucking A, brother, welcome to the club. It's damn weird encountering this shit for the first time, it blew me away. Be careful here, this shit is powerful and can be addictive. Take a deep breath, and try to stay calm. Everybody here knows what it was like being in Straight and seeing these forums after 20 years. It's a fucking freakout.
We were subjected to some of the weirdest shit for anyone to encounter, and it was done to us during our formative years. That place was extreemely fucked up, and damaged and killed a lot of people.
My advice would be to go slowly, take a deep breath, and maybe talk to a counselor or significant other if you need to. This shit can get full-blown weird at times, and I would advise caution. That said, I think it can be somewhat beneficial as far as figuring out how to unravel Straight's lies that we were forced to swallow, and can help you gain an understanding of what they did to us. It is not pretty.
The real sick shit is that these places never went away--they keep cropping up under different names, and kids are getting abused in them as you read this. There are a lot of people on these forums that do a lot to help to bring about the closure of these places, with some degrees of success. Maybe you'll want to get involved with that, maybe not.
What you will definitely find here is a bunch of people who understand what you're experiencing and will believe you when you tell them about your time in Straight because they were there. So many people can't or don't comprehend the shit we were subjected to.
Glad you could make it.
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Yeah, I've already notice that the forum is addicting...but I've also notice that the forum is oddly...well downright therapudic, because so many here have been there and there's no need to convince POW's how horrible it was...even if my life does feel like its been turned upside down all over again...I'm glad I found it.
And I have been thinking about counseling...but the fears crop up, what if they dont believe my story, you know..distrust of so called therapy...and if that happens I dont know what I'll do...but I think its worth trying because NOTHING can be as bad as Straight.
Yeah, between Dateline's story and this forum, I realize Straight never really went away (to my absolute horror)...and I have already been involved in my own way, through more indirect means...by mentoring kids. And I plan to devote some amount of my practice (I'm about to graduate law school) to juvenile law, even though Straight's influence is felt in the JJ system (drug courts). I hope to make some kind of contribution to finding real solutions, because I can't stand what kids in the system (or in copycat Straight programs)have to go through without a single adult on their side. Idealistic...yeah, I know.
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hey, i hear you, nonconformistlaw. it means a whole lot to me when new people show up and say what you said. i get you about the counseling thing, too.
i knew that i needed to remember and really feel things, so i went into that, and it was crushing this past winter.
but it helped to me remember, it made me feel more real. i still can't believe what happened. there are things to face still. i am still trying to understand about brainwashing and what i turned into in Straight.
i sat alone in town for a while the other night, and i realized that i was so extremely conscious of possible predators. so then i told myself just to imagine that NO ONE was out to get me. i was safe. they were all decent people out on the town having fun. everything was okay. and i calmed down. having seen the dark side of people in Straight, i think i always expect that. i read that into people, and it is just not the truth. i have read that into many kind people that i have met, whom i never needed to fear, and it has kept me alone.
i have met some deeply close friends here, people who understand things that no one else in the world could understand, and people who love me even when i am being as disagreeable as possible. ::heart::
so welcome.
b from vt.
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What B from VT said.
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I know what you mean...I KNOW I need to remember and really feel things...and I hate that I cant reach the pain...but KNOW it's there, and I am scared to death to really feel it...But, hey if I can survive Straight once I guess I can do it again when I force myself to relive it.
That is what its going to be like isn't it...like reliving the nightmare all over again :question: :question:
Oh well...gotta do it...its bizarre how that I know Straight happened, but at times it seems like it happen to someone else or I just imagined how bad it really was...surreal or something. Probably denial.
You know when you mentioned how being concious of predators and how it has kept you alone...it got me thinking...Are my Straight created phobias & fears connected to why I am alone/single. I have never been able to maintain a long-term relationship...there always short.
One of my Straight created fears...fear of being falsely accused and imprisoned again...can't shake it.
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Come to think of it....
If I'm falsely accused of anything in my life...I FREAK OUT, I'm hyper-sensitive that way....nobody ever understands why I have such a strong reaction. I always hear "if their wrong don't worry about it...you can't control what other people think" Stuff like that. But it always REALLY upsets when me when I have been misunderstood in any way.
Obviously being misunderstood by my parents and falsely accused of being a druggie by Straight became my worst nightmare.
Does this happen to anyone else???? Overreacting to being misunderstood and/or falsely accused???
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Yes, ALL the time! Now that I've 'been on top of it' for a while it has seemed to subside a little..
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I am with you , friend. I locked myself in my room for days when I first stumbled onto this forum like 3or 4 years ago.
The broken marraige, the FREAK-OUTs, the overly disclosing temdency (gotta be honest), the lack of trust.
Been single now since for 4 years since my girlfriend couldn;t get me to commit.
Yeah, I am with you.
I will never forget crying like a kid in front of my monitor after years of hardness.
You are not alone.
Bill H
St Pete & Atlanta
12/80- 12/82
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Thanks Tampa Survivor.
Although I haven't locked myself in a room yet, I've still basically shut the world out since I stumbled on to this forum. Its all I can think about right now and I am barely functioning (as in taking care of daily responsibilities, much less productive at work, etc).
I noticed that I waver between the verge of a freak out and the numbness/state of shock.
The insidiousness of Straight's effect on people, including myself, so many years later is nothing less than a mind boggling mental and emotional bombshell.
I still haven't been able to completely break down and cry yet...A few tears slip out occassionally, but I can't seem to penatrate the fortress of numbness. Out of curiousity, have any tips on breaking through that fortress? Or as you call it hardness?
God I hate the overdisclosing tendancy/emotional vomiting...I think I've driven many commitment phobes away just because of that alone. Yeah, it seems like Straight, among many other things, damaged some of our ability to carry on normal/healthy relationships.
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I don't think I really locked myself away. But I definitely had a paradigm shift and a change in habit when I started looking into the historical facts of the matter.
Prior to that, when the newspeople spoke of things like a multijurisdictional counterdrug taskforce, I'd just shudder and change the channel. See, I thought I was just paranoid and overly affected and that explained my general anxiety over those familiar, authoritarian themes. I spent a good many months playing catch up wrt learning about what's going on. Instead of writing it off to paranoia, I started searching on relavent terms. I wasn't entirely correct in my original assumptions. But close enough so that it often pays to follow those hunches.
Check it out
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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On 2005-08-15 10:49:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
I noticed that I waver between the verge of a freak out and the numbness/state of shock.
That's a pretty good description of my mental state most of the time.
The insidiousness of Straight's effect on people, including myself, so many years later is nothing less than a mind boggling mental and emotional bombshell.
Yeah, it freaks me out to think that the shit that went down over twenty years ago still has some kind of effect on me, it's really fucking weird....I feel really dissociated from the world a lot.
God I hate the overdisclosing tendancy/emotional vomiting...
That has got to be one of the worst effects of all.
Yeah, it seems like Straight, among many other things, damaged some of our ability to carry on normal/healthy relationships.
"
Without a doubt. I wouldn't tell one g/f I loved her because of the connotations the word took on for me after Straight. That particular quirk led to some awkward pauses in conversations between us.
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Another great post by Animals, animals all of us, he, she, we, them, us. Thanks Animals. You are not fooling anyone by telling your story again. Man, get a life you silly sad strange little man you.
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Who's "Animals"? I'm really confused. Which post are you referring to?
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Doesn't really matter....it was a good post though.
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there isn't a single "Animals" post on this thread, nimwit.
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give her a break, animals...she's new here. :lol:
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Thanks for the link Ginger...I'll check it out...seems that my new reading list from this forum is getting longer than my law school reading assignments!
Ok I really have no idea what that Animals tangent was all about that anon brought up...but who knows maybe I missed something somewhere.
Yeah, Ginger, I definitly see things differently, not in the sense that my beliefs or values have changed...that part of me is the same...but more in the sense I understand better where my values and beliefs really came from, in alot of ways...as a strong reaction against Straight's methods.
And, what is really different, aside from starting to get a grip on how Straight damaged me, is the confirmation/validation aspect...kind of like "my god it really happened, I wasn't imagining things, I wasnt blowing it out of proportion in my mind at all. I was actually right about how fucked up Straight was." And worse..."this shit is still happening now??!!"
Anyway...its really difficult to explain...
I also I sense that my priorities have been completely changed. Yeah I was already hellbent on using my legal career as a tool to help kids now dealing with the same crap we once dealt with, and to push for reform/new ideas on how kids in the JJ system are treated for their so-called issues. But now there's whole new focus...Straight, Straight copycats, and other abusive programs, bringing the assholes down! Nothing will be more satisfying that focusing some attention on it as a lawyer, and maybe in other ways I havent really thought of yet. And at the same time, its going to be one hell of an emotional ordeal, all over again.
Time will tell. BTW, I REALLY appreciate all the feedback..since I know its old news to some of you.. ::rainbow::
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Thanks for the link Ginger...I'll check it out...seems that my new reading list from this forum is getting longer than my law school reading assignments!
You had better watch it! You seem to be headed down a slippery slope. You should stop thinking about all of this straight-related stuff now and get your nose back in the books. It's time to move on -- nothing more to see here, nothing more to think about.....BTW, if you need help with focusing on your work, we can help you with that!
Ok I really have no idea what that Animals tangent was all about that anon brought up...but who knows maybe I missed something somewhere.
"Animals" is Gary the Gorilla's newest companion! (check out our site)
And, what is really different, aside from starting to get a grip on how Straight damaged me, is the confirmation/validation aspect...kind of like "my god it really happened, I wasn't imagining things, I wasnt blowing it out of proportion in my mind at all. I was actually right about how fucked up Straight was." And worse..."this shit is still happening now??!!"
Straight's methods have been proven effective time and again...we have a very high success rate, or were you not aware of that? And you're damned RIGHT it's still happening now! SIBS is the Wave of the Future in Drug Treatment.?
_________________
http://fornits.com/SIBS (http://fornits.com/SIBS)
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On 2005-08-15 18:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Another great post by Animals, animals all of us, he, she, we, them, us. Thanks Animals. You are not fooling anyone by telling your story again. Man, get a life you silly sad strange little man you."
Apparently he is fooling you, 'cause I made the post, and I'm certainly not him/her/it.
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just hearing the name brings back fond memories, nevermind if it was a joke.
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The truth hurts.
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I called my mother (non-custodial parent) tonight to ask her to re-tell me about the time she flew across the country to see me while I was in Straight?.Only I found how screwed up my memory is?.my mom said she was interviewed by teenagers, which pissed her off, she threw a fit, told them how little she thought of the program?.basically she let them have it, really laid into them?
Here?s where my own memory gets really screwy.I recently said in another post that my mother was turned away w/o seeing me?..I apparently had the story wrong. Since she threw a fit and openly vented her disapproval of Straight to their face, she was told that she was a bad parent, not good for me, and was a bad parental role model, but miraculously, staff allowed a restricted one hour visit at my Dad and step monster?s home, in their presence.
Then I asked my mother what I was like, how did I act, etc??Quote ?you seemed really into the program and seemed to really believe in it.? Now this is freaky and upsetting me because??
I CANT REMEMBER?..I cant remember?.I have NO recollection of this at all! Yeah I can remember all the details about Straight?s rules, the coercion techniques, the humiliation, the restraints, being confronted in general, that I never did drugs before Straight, the kidnapping, etc, stuff like that?.but I have NO real specific concrete personal memories in there?. How could I possibly forget something that would have been extremely memorable like getting to see my mother??????????? Why is there a huge gap in my memories? Is it just that I repressed the memories that much? I mean I know how time diminishes memories to an extent but this is ridiculous?.Or is it a side effect of the brainwashing?
My mother?s comments about how I seemed to be really into the program and believe in it really hit me hard. All I could think about when she said that is?.MY GOD?..I was so brainwashed?.my mind was not my own, my mind belonged to Straight.
I feel like I have to ?admit that I was brainwashed??.admit they got to me?.how I don?t know?.saying that makes me feel like I did something wrong or that I wasn?t strong enough to resist them, guilt, my fault?.damn it I tried not to succumb to their warped thinking?..but it happened anyway?..the kids at school were right?.I was a STRAIGHT ROBOT :scared: :scared:
I guess this is just a shock to me because I cant fathom being like that because I am so different now.
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Yeah, cuz,i have a hard time livin'upto all the ideals like Christ and Buddha and Braveheart, and all the 1916 Irish revolutionaries who were executed by the British. Gandhi. i know i have to live my own life. :skull: [ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2005-08-27 20:23 ]
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I finally got word from police today that the file regarding the kidnapping incident when I was 18 has long since been destroyed (I have explained the details in other posts). Apparently police in that particular jurisdiction are only required to keep files for 7 years, even if regarding Straight. And the offense of kidnapping only has a statute of limitations of seven years (criminal) anyway---so there was no need to keep it longer than that.
Even worse...it was discovered that the handwritten entry on the books originally said kidnapping, but white out was used to change that to instead indicate some type of drug treatment conflict. This set off my suspicions, but the officer explained about crime reporting (for statistical purposes) has to be accurate...and in my case (since I refused to cooperate I'm sure---I was a wreck to say the least) no evidence could substantiate the charges, so it was necessary to change the entry for general crime reporting purposes. This does make some possible sense to me since I learned enough about crime reporting in school, and it might be a legitimate reason to change the entry. (cant report crimes unless sure the crime occurred) Or this is just a seeming "legitimate excuse" to hide something, because I dont think the original records have to be turned in for uniform crime reporting----couldnt they just have made a notation to the effect of being an unsolved crime so that their reporting would be accurate? Why fucking change the allegations? Who knows...doesn?t really matter does it? The end result is the same...I'm screwed. Here?s an disturbing piece of irony?police used white out to "change" (in effect to lie) Straight's offense and Straight?s liquid paper lies to convince me I had a drug problem??
I never really expected the file to be out there after all these years...but its just so frustrating that there is little proof of Straight's crimes against me (and others). But, having the file would have given me some sense of vindication and validation...there's nothing but my word and my dad's against straight now....the information can now never be used for academic studies that may be of value either. I was also hoping to show my counselor...because I've already had a hard time getting across why straight was so bad. The file would have helped somewhat.
I hope this doesn?t sound stupid but it just hurts that I cant have information that is rightfully mine and because its as if it never happened. FUCK STRAIGHT!!! They'll never have to answer for their crimes will they????????? I cant even have a little vindication in such a tiny way as just having the damn police file! God I wish I would have thought to try to get the file years ago...but then again, Straight was the furthest thing from my mind just so I could survive... :mad:
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On 2005-09-13 11:52:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
"I finally got word from police today that the file regarding the kidnapping incident when I was 18 has long since been destroyed (I have explained the details in other posts). Apparently police in that particular jurisdiction are only required to keep files for 7 years, even if regarding Straight. And the offense of kidnapping only has a statute of limitations of seven years (criminal) anyway---so there was no need to keep it longer than that.
Even worse...it was discovered that the handwritten entry on the books originally said kidnapping, but white out was used to change that to instead indicate some type of drug treatment conflict. This set off my suspicions, but the officer explained about crime reporting (for statistical purposes) has to be accurate...and in my case (since I refused to cooperate I'm sure---I was a wreck to say the least) no evidence could substantiate the charges, so it was necessary to change the entry for general crime reporting purposes. This does make some possible sense to me since I learned enough about crime reporting in school, and it might be a legitimate reason to change the entry. (cant report crimes unless sure the crime occurred) Or this is just a seeming "legitimate excuse" to hide something, because I dont think the original records have to be turned in for uniform crime reporting----couldnt they just have made a notation to the effect of being an unsolved crime so that their reporting would be accurate? Why fucking change the allegations? Who knows...doesn?t really matter does it? The end result is the same...I'm screwed. Here?s an disturbing piece of irony?police used white out to "change" (in effect to lie) Straight's offense and Straight?s liquid paper lies to convince me I had a drug problem??
I never really expected the file to be out there after all these years...but its just so frustrating that there is little proof of Straight's crimes against me (and others). But, having the file would have given me some sense of vindication and validation...there's nothing but my word and my dad's against straight now....the information can now never be used for academic studies that may be of value either. I was also hoping to show my counselor...because I've already had a hard time getting across why straight was so bad. The file would have helped somewhat.
I hope this doesn?t sound stupid but it just hurts that I cant have information that is rightfully mine and because its as if it never happened. FUCK STRAIGHT!!! They'll never have to answer for their crimes will they????????? I cant even have a little vindication in such a tiny way as just having the damn police file! God I wish I would have thought to try to get the file years ago...but then again, Straight was the furthest thing from my mind just so I could survive... :mad: "
NCL after reading this I started feeling a lot of anxiety. I just called up the place I received mental health services while in straight and they are mailing me a form so I can request copies of my records.
Now I really want to know if the psychatrist and therapist documented what I told them about straight and the issues with suicide I had while in there. I hope they documented everything I said. If so that is at least some proof on my end that I suffered a mental breakdown in straight and had to get outside help while still in their so called treatment program.
I'm feeling too paranoid posting my name right now because I want those records in my hands first.
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Anon-----I know why my post would be scary to those who want to track down old records. But dont take it as it will automatically be that way for you in your case. It may be the same, it may NOT be. I bet it depends on many things how long records are kept. But good thinking---getting the process of requesting those records started NOW.
The records I wanted concerned a crime/police records in the possession of a certain police department...maybe different police departments have different time frames for destruction of records, maybe they're the same, I just dont know...check anyway if you want those kind of records.
Maybe mental heath professionals have different time frames for how long they keep records. I dont know. I assume there will be variations in this among differing professions (police....vs. mental health providers). But anon...this is for you and anyone else wanting records...its worth a shot to try to get them, but the passage of time may very well be a big problem for many of us...
Hope you get them....
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On 2005-09-13 12:55:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:
"Anon-----I know why my post would be scary to those who want to track down old records. But dont take it as it will automatically be that way for you in your case. It may be the same, it may NOT be. I bet it depends on many things how long records are kept. But good thinking---getting the process of requesting those records started NOW.
The records I wanted concerned a crime/police records in the possession of a certain police department...maybe different police departments have different time frames for destruction of records, maybe they're the same, I just dont know...check anyway if you want those kind of records.
Maybe mental heath professionals have different time frames for how long they keep records. I dont know. I assume there will be variations in this among differing professions (police....vs. mental health providers). But anon...this is for you and anyone else wanting records...its worth a shot to try to get them, but the passage of time may very well be a big problem for many of us...
Hope you get them....
"
I asked if they had my records from 1987 and indeed they did. They told me they hang on to them for 10 years and then file them in storage after that. They still have them though and hopefully I will have some sort of written documented proof of my mind unraveling in that place.
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hey anon---if you feel comfortable...you can pm me about this...if not I understand completely. ::rainbow:: [ This Message was edited by: Nonconformistlaw on 2005-09-13 13:32 ]
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NCL, you're certainly not alone in that weird memory block thing. A lot of us have the same sort of blanks. I don't think I can remember 2 days worth of experience out of the two years I was in. Was just talking w/ an old friend from those days and she told me about something that happened at Fame Haven (local group home). Not only do I not remember the incident, I don't even remember her having been there at all.
I don't know exactly why this is. But I have some ideas. I intentionally turned my mind off; checked my identity at the door. My strategy was to just put on a good enough act till I could split, graduate or come of age. I just did't realize that, in the process, it would really damage me in the long term. And I didn't realize the harm I was so adeptly doing to others. But I think that's got a lot to do w/ our failing memories. But who knows, maybe some day some dedicated shrinks will figure it out. Mean time, it just is what it is.
One has to multiply thoughts to the point where there aren't enough
policemen to control them
--Stanislaw Lec
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On 2005-09-13 13:45:00, Antigen wrote:
"NCL, you're certainly not alone in that weird memory block thing. A lot of us have the same sort of blanks. I don't think I can remember 2 days worth of experience out of the two years I was in. Was just talking w/ an old friend from those days and she told me about something that happened at Fame Haven (local group home). Not only do I not remember the incident, I don't even remember her having been there at all.
I don't know exactly why this is. But I have some ideas. I intentionally turned my mind off; checked my identity at the door. My strategy was to just put on a good enough act till I could split, graduate or come of age. I just did't realize that, in the process, it would really damage me in the long term. And I didn't realize the harm I was so adeptly doing to others. But I think that's got a lot to do w/ our failing memories. But who knows, maybe some day some dedicated shrinks will figure it out. Mean time, it just is what it is.
In my case, I didn?t intentionally turn my mind off, that I was aware of anyway, until after straight. While in straight, I remember the first few weeks of confusion, but after that its mostly a blank, with only a few incidents standing out. Yeah, it does seems like we all have this problem with a blank memory to varying extents.
But what bothers me most about this, is that it almost seems like I wasn?t there at all sometimes...because of the void. Maybe a kind of dissociation? Like unconsciously removing myself and "checking out" while in straight, I guess. I struggle to explain and understand it. And maybe it bothers me too much...I just cant seem to deal with a huge void in my memory----its very unsettling. But yeah, your right..it is what it is.