Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: p.e.n.i.#1 on July 19, 2005, 02:28:00 AM
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BEFORE DENYING ME MY WEEKLY 5 MINUTE PHONE CALL FROM MY SON DOESNT THE SCHOOL HAVE TO FIRST GET MY PERMISSION TO PUT MY SON ON A "FAMILY BLACKOUT" AS THEY CALL IT? OR CAN THEY JUST TELL ME "SORRY ABOUT YOUR LUCK BUT YOU ARENT GO TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO YOUR SON" THIS HAS BEEN HAPENING FOR 4 WEEKS NOW AND IM GETTING REAL WORRIED. PLEASE CAN ANYONE TELL ME BECAUSE I CANT GET AN ANSWER FROM ANYONE AT THE SCHOOL. OH YA, NO LETTERS EITHER. PLEASE REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Turn the caps OFF, please.
Anyway, they cant do that. Thats bullshit and is 100% illegal. However, theyre counting on you being a whimp or a moron, well, guess what? You dont have to.
Tell them if you arent allowed to talk to your kid, youre going to go to the authorities - AND DO SO. Follow through. Or, just show up and talk to your kid yourself. I don't think we're here for anything, we're just products of evolution. You can say 'Gee, your life must be pretty bleak if you don't think there's a purpose' but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
--Dr. James Watson, American biologist
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Sorry about the caps! Now that I look it is irratating huh, anyway, I wish I could show up but I live in California and he is in New York. Also, I have no custody of him. But regaurdless I am entitled to at least be able to ensure he is still alive and somewhat okay. I am so pissed off ! They tell me "Sorry you wont be getting your 5 minute phone call again this week because your son is still "in the corner" I got upset last time I spoke to the "contact" person because in ther handbook in the corner sanction says nothing about not being able to call your parents or corespondence of any kind. That would be under something called "Family Blackout" well the guy from the school hung up on me and I have yet to get anyone to call me back. I only get there answering machine and voice mailbox, no real people, and when they call to tell me I wont get to talk to my son, its always a student that calls. Thank you for the conformation on my gut feeling now Im real upset! now what???
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Due to the posts I have received from this forum on this I was able to call my sons dad and ask him if he gave the school permission to put our son on blackout, he hesitated and was very surprised that I knew this would be illegal to do without permisson from the parents, anyway I threatend to take him back to court for violating the little rights I have left , he told me that he did give the school permission and that I would be for sure getting my 5 minute phone call this Saturday with our son, so we will see.........
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p.e.n.i., this sounds like a very frustrating situation for you, and your son. Remember that when you do talk to him, he will probably be monitored and even possibly recorded, so be careful what you say. Also, he might say that he's "fine" when he really isn't because he doesn't want to get in trouble. The best thing to do is assure him that you love and care about him, no matter what happens. Five minutes go by fast- so make them count. You have my support.
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I don't think it is legal anywhere as a matter of fact if your child was to Lawyer up somehow they would be able to prove it was a violation of his civil rights, parents permission or not, he is not living at home, they can't even do that to people in prison or Psych hospitals, what right does a program or a parent have to do that. A huge violation I would hope of his civil rights. The problem with these places that do this and the parents that send them is they don't realize these kids have rights end of story! If someone or more than one person were to make enough complaints to the Feds on particular programs often enough they would step in and things would change I would hope.
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How come no one on this forum wonders why this mom has no custody.
is it possible that her talking to the kid will in fact undermine his progress?
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On 2005-07-22 11:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How come no one on this forum wonders why this mom has no custody.
is it possible that her talking to the kid will in fact undermine his progress?
"
This is total bullshit. Having your parents' support and being in touch with the outside world does not undermine progress. On the contrary, it encourages progress and positive change. Kids who are experiencing difficulties or problems need all the support they can get-- especially their parents' support.
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if your familier with original poster story you would see how wrong you are.
she never says why she doesnt have ANY custody, other than a passing reference to some psych evaluations.
her kid lives on the other side of the country with dad for a few years. dad determines that the kid needs help so he puts him in an expensive sleep away camp of a school where they are gonna be sure that the kid has his limits and he better stay inside them. for some reason on these forums, everyone assumes that the custodial parent has not now for the first time in his life the kid has no control over the situation (good), and when he screws up there is a real consequence.
now since mom in noncustodial, she isnt an authority figure, and the kid a perfect angel to her.
what happened with this woman is that the kid got on the phone and told her that dad only out his own son in this school to get revenge on her.
that is so typical of what these kids do to manipulate divorced parents, what isnt typical and very disconcerting is that the mom believes it and starts talking about rescuing the kid one way or another. the child wins again right? the manipulation pays off right? wrong.
at this school the childs conversation is being monitored by another kid who knows the situation, and has some experience with brats. he ends the conversation.
if what i've said is true, and assuming that the kid really is a brat who is throwing his life away at 17, isnt the dad doing the right thing by taking him out of whatever negative enviornment hes in and sticking him somewhere where he will hopefully become a man?
this kid is making his own food, doing his own laundry, and completing his school assighments probably for the first time in his life.
youre gonna tell me contact with the mom already determined by the courts to be an unfit parent who wants to rescue the kid isnt undermining Tx!
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On 2005-07-22 11:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How come no one on this forum wonders why this mom has no custody.
is it possible that her talking to the kid will in fact undermine his progress?
"
Well, maybe because some of us have some 1st and 2nd hand experience w/ the family court system. Unlike civil or criminal courts, family courts have absolutely no requrement for evidence. So their judgements are often entirely meaningless. May be, this particular judge based their decision entirely on the fact of a past conviction. Could be the father had a better lawyer and simply was better able to pursuede them.
It's more than possible that this kid talking to his mom would undermine the program. In fact, it's extremely likely that any outside influence would undermine the program. That's why they don't allow it. The Program only "works" if they can isolate the new inductee. See Thought Reform Programs and the Production of Psychiatric Casualties Psychiatric Annals 20:4/April 1990 By Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D. and Richard Ofshe, Ph. D. for more info.
The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
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If my 5 minute phone call a week can effect my son more than the programing of 24/7 than I say they should let me talk to him more to encourage him, I dont discourage him in my 5 minutes, I tell him I love him and tell him about the house we are going to buy, and how big his brother is getting. Come on five "F"in minutes is rediculious when I was in prison I talked to him and communicated more. This is a child who all he has ever wanted is to spend more time with me, we used to talk on the phone for hours at a time, and it wasnt about negative things, it was what he wanted to be when he grew up ect. That post sounded just like The Family School talking to me!!!! :exclaim:
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On 2005-07-22 12:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
if what i've said is true, and assuming that the kid really is a brat who is throwing his life away at 17, isnt the dad doing the right thing by taking him out of whatever negative enviornment hes in and sticking him somewhere where he will hopefully become a man?
The jury's still out on how wholesome an environment the Family Foundation is. The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
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Three Springs Waygookin: well said, excellent point
Antigen, i dont have much experience with family court, i didnt know they didnt require any evidence. in this case maybe we should ask OP what her psych evaluations said because she made it sound like there would be evidence in her case.
The jury's still out on how wholesome an environment the Family Foundation is.
how wholsesome of an enviornment were the ghettos of s. africa that produced nelson mandela
i ask you anitgen because in the rest of the world literally 99% of children live in enviornments worse than the cushy 'burbs where these brats are comming up and "The Family Foundation" out together, but since they have real issues they grow up and learn to persevere.
sometimes i wonder if even if the whole 12 step philosophy is wrong, could the biggest benefeit of the program be the fact that it forces the kids to play along. all they gotta do is there homework and they get phone time (even if they fail). in real life if you dont do your job you aint spending time on the phone with anybody cuz you cant afford long distance. after 6 months they are allowed to spend weekends off campus. sounds like a camp to me. say what you will about it they offer college prep copurses and a significant amount of their student body is staying voluntarily well passed their 18th birthday. (they got a few 20 year olds).
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Ok, by your reasoning, all a kid needs to grow up to be Nelson Mandela is a little childhood trauma. So why spend tens or hundreds of thousands on boarding school when you could just shove the kid out in front of a bus?
The trouble is that the schools never explain to the new inductees (kids or parents) exactly how their trauma based methods "work". And they're not the least bit interested in hearing about how it works out in the long run. You only get to hear about those rare few who, for whatever reasons, are willing to say positive things about it.
Just do the math. How many kids are enroled? How long has the place been running? How many good references? Where the hell are all the rest?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
-- Albert Einstein
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im not saying that re: mandella.
im just saying that a lot of these kids, had they had any real adversity, would understand why even if you dont need no education in high school, its important to put yourself in a position to succeed on some level.
substitute "push in front of the bus" with "do your own laundry, make your own food, and show me you are the man you pretend to be.
i gotta disagree with you about the schools not caring how the kids do in the long run.
this particular school is conducting a longitudinal study on their alumns, and they promised me access to the data, not that im qualified to question their methodology, its a pretty straight foreward questionairre based on student and parent response to certain questions over time.
in that sense they are doing the math for me. granted i dont believe everything i read so i do some research, but aside from a couple of sources like this forum and antoher webpage run by teens, reviews are pretty good.
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On 2005-07-22 13:13:00, P.E.N.1 wrote:
"If my 5 minute phone call a week can effect my son more than the programing of 24/7 than I say they should let me talk to him more to encourage him, I dont discourage him in my 5 minutes, I tell him I love him and tell him about the house we are going to buy, and how big his brother is getting. Come on five "F"in minutes is rediculious when I was in prison I talked to him and communicated more. This is a child who all he has ever wanted is to spend more time with me, we used to talk on the phone for hours at a time, and it wasnt about negative things, it was what he wanted to be when he grew up ect. That post sounded just like The Family School talking to me!!!! :exclaim: "
Wait a minute, back up. I thought you didn't have the money for a good lawyer, or a plane ticket across the country? But you have the money for a new house? And you are buying a house in California when the kid who needs you most is in New York?
Your posts no longer convince me that you care about your child.
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Wait A minute!!! When did I say that I didnt have money for a lawyer??? I said Ive spent 16 grand already in one month in legal fees, and when I got a 2 week notice of the parent seminar, in which I could visit my son for 45 minutes, I jumped on it! And when I heard about a picnic that they were having I jumped on that too, but one small problem, I couldnt see my son because they had put him in a corner. What the hell does buying a house have to do with my son being locked up at The family school anyway? Even if I bought a house right down the damn street from the school I would still have the same contact I do now. But you know you gave me a real good idea, next time I talk to my son Im going to ask him if he wants us to move out there until he is done there, Thank you for the great Idea!!!!!! :idea:
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good for you Peni! Any mother willing to move her whole life across the country for her son is a good mom in my book! I don't know you, but you come across as a very concerned parent who really loves and misses her son. I want to know what "in the corner" means. How long can they keep a child in the corner? Is he literally in a corner? Or is it a solitary confinement room? What other restrictions does a child in the corner have? Do they get regular meals? Do they get to sleep in a bed? Go to school? What type of behavior merits being put in the corner?
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Waygookin, there's another side to this. If the program is abusive--especially if it's psychological abuse--then there is nothing more demoralizing than to have your own parents support it.
Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
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I seee it both ways, I cannot legally get my son out of there, I tried it, presented pictures of the crapy trailer my son shares with 15 other kids, presented my sons report card, along with teachers comments before he was ripped out of school and sent to NY. My son had a 3.2 grade average. Allthough not perfect he was doing well in school. Glowing comments from teachers stateing my sons attitutde, expert witness even on the stand testafying on my sons behalf, hell his own dad who sent him there said Our son was never disrespectful, and was a terrific kid! He even testafied that he had no knowledge of his grades, and that he did also hit my son with belts often. I dont know if the judge was just up there doing a crossword puzzle or what the hell!Anyway, he stated he made findings that it was the right placement for my son. Which means I cannot take it to appeals court, due to the wording of the judgement. End of story.
NOw my son KNOWS that there is no way I suport a brainwashing facility such as the one he is in, he knows exactly why, as i do, that he was rushed off to NY and I was served emergency hearing papers.So , even though I dont want to make it worse for him , by him thinking that maybe I can do something to get him out, I will never say that he belongs there to him. (like the school wanted me to fax a letter stateing)I can only tell him to work out, run a track if they have one, try to stay out of the corner so we can get our 5 min, plus one letter a month, and tell him that I know things are hard right now, but before he kbnows it he will be home soon. I also tell him not to let anyone break his spirit, thats something he knows people cannot take away, its what heros are made of.It may be easier if I just pretend like I back the school up. then my son knows he has no choice, but I cant lie to him, nor would he truly believe me if I said that anyway. Yes words definitly do come back and haunt you, this is my hard lesson to be learned. My harsh words are what got his dad all pissed off at me in the first place and my son sent off. If I could only take back what I said to him that day I would, if I would have only known.. It "F"in sucks, but I cannot go back and erase what was said, now my son and I have to suffer the consequences.Thank you for replying, I have no one to talk to really, so thanks for getting me through another morning anyway, I just pray that my son finds some relief at least once a day where he feels that inner peace. IM sure that everyday at 15 so far away from all you know is a living hell.
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Pen, don't assume that your son has any control whatsoever over staying out of the corner (whatever that may mean) or anything else that happens. They probably don't want you talking to him and may very well trump up punishments to 1) prevent your communicating w/ him and 2) try to incite a little resentment in you.
I don't know if there's a way to get him out early or not. But, if he winds up there for the whole stay, just try to understand why he may say some things and behave in ways that are hard to understand. You can sort it all out later.
Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status
--Laurence J. Peter
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exactly how long till the kid turns 18?
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I would suggest getting in touch with Dee Alpert in NY I posted her info earlier in this thread, if their is abuse or they are living in horrific conditions like you say something can be done, persistance pays off. I am still unclear as to why you have no rights to your son, did his Dad get custody of him?
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Instead of asking people here who have no idea about FFS, why don't you talk to other parents who have kids at FFS now or who have kids that have graduated. If you go to the parent seminar, you'll see for yourself and also learn how to contact other parents on a daily basis.
I can tell you now if you go with the pre-concieved ideas and attitudes you are posting here (which by the way the whole world including your ex and staff may see) don't expect the welcome mat to be rolled out for you.
If your son is in the corner right now, you can be sure he knows exactly what he did to put himself there and exactly what he needs to do to leave the corner. When he's ready, he'll get himself out.
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On 2005-07-22 21:45:00, P.E.N.1 wrote:
"Wait A minute!!! When did I say that I didnt have money for a lawyer??? I said Ive spent 16 grand already in one month in legal fees, and when I got a 2 week notice of the parent seminar, in which I could visit my son for 45 minutes, I jumped on it! And when I heard about a picnic that they were having I jumped on that too, but one small problem, I couldnt see my son because they had put him in a corner. What the hell does buying a house have to do with my son being locked up at The family school anyway? Even if I bought a house right down the damn street from the school I would still have the same contact I do now. But you know you gave me a real good idea, next time I talk to my son Im going to ask him if he wants us to move out there until he is done there, Thank you for the great Idea!!!!!! :idea: "
I see your earlier post, I was mistaken regarding some of the facts. You stated that you spent 16,000 on legal fees and that there was no way to appeal your case. You stated that you would move across the country and picket the place but you had a second family to take care of. Ah well, life goes on. Sorry, I read between the lines. You abandoned your first child a while ago, spent some time in prison because you did some very illegal things, your ex got custody, of course, and you hitched up with a new family. How far did you live from your kid before he got sent to NY?
If you have money, why not move to NY? Perhaps you and your new family could all picket the place together. Perhaps you could take the case before New York courts. You would be right there, and perhaps you could appeal to the police there to uphold your visitation rights.
By the way, if you have money to buy a new house, you have money to get some substantial legal advice from people qualified to give it.
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He's only 15? The poor boy. I had just turned 15 when I was sent away, and two years seems like forever when you're a kid caught in the system. He sounds like a capable kid if he was getting 3.2 GPA. Maybe if he really booked it on his school studies, he could try to graduate early? If he got all his required units to graduate, there would really be no reason to keep him there until eighteen. He would be better off in work or college, and any judge should agree with that.