Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: p.e.n.i.#1 on July 14, 2005, 12:45:00 AM
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I REALLLY NEED SOMEONE OUT THERE THAT HAS HAD PERSONAL EXPEIRNCE WITH THIS PLACE. MY SON IS THERE AND I WISH I COULD GET HIM BACK I LOST CUSTODY OF HIM AND HIS DAD SENT HIM OUT TO THIS HORRID PLACE. NO, MY SON WAS NOT REBELLIOUS, HE WAS SENT THERE OUT OF HATRED FOR ME BY HIS DAD. 3 WEEKS HAVE PASSED AND STILL NO WORD FROM MY SON, ALLTHOUGH HE HAS BEEN THERE FOR 5 MONTHS NOW. HE IS IN THE CORNER AND THE CONTACT PERSON HANGS UP ON ME. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO TO THAT DAMN PLACE AND THOSE LIKE IT.. BUT I CAN ONLY IMAGINE AND DREAM BECAUSE THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN AND SLOWLY BUT SURELY WE ARE ALL LOSING OUR FREEDOM.... OR DID WE EVER HAVE IT ??? PLEASE REPLY.. ANYONE~!!!!!!!
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Your best bet is to get a lawyer and take it to court. You could also go pick him up your self with a cop with you, he is your child and there for you have the right to do such things...
I hope I dident feed a troll
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tahnk you for the suggestion, i forgot to mention that I have spent 16,000 in legal fees already. Even though I presented all the evedince that this was the wrong placement made, the judge still ruled against me. the only way i could go pick him up, would be in a helicopter, the school wont release him to me, per california court orders, I am petitioning the court again though this is why I need to have peoples personal expeirence on the place, obviously my testamony and the expert witness that testafied were not enough to convince your honor. SO now knowing a little more any other suggests??? please , thank you again for the reply though it is pretty lonely right now in my world. K
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I dont know much about the place, try emailing some one here http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org) for help, they may be able to tell you about it or do somthing, give you some info at least.
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thank you again, you are quick to reply! I will definitly take your suggestion, agian much appreciated
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Go and listen to a 17 year old. nice
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On 2005-07-14 10:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Go and listen to a 17 year old. nice"
He's giving that lady some good advice. Why should his age matter?
This looks like a really lame attempt to discredit OL. You don't really have anything to go on, so you pick on the age thing. Nice.
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Maybe you need a better lawyer? Definitely contact ISAC, they have experience with parents who have brought successful cases.
Sometimes, all you can do is all you can do. At least when your son gets out he will know you went all out to try to protect him. That may really help him in regaining his trust--of people like you who are worthy of it, anyway.
I'm saying what you've already done is doing some good even though you haven't been successful. It will be important to your son that you tried.
Timoclea
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A better lawyer was not helpful in my situation. I told him I wanted an injunction to bring my son home immediately because my parental rights had been violated without due process or a court order. With him home, we could then proceed to prove that any 'help' he needed was available locally, and that this placement was actually an act of vengence.
The scum bag took my retainer, rarely returned phone calls, did not do what he agreed to do, gradually led my case toward a custody battle which I never wanted complete with psych evals all around which could be contested and a third party (guardian adlitem) for my son. = A bunch of money and time. My son could be out by the time a custody battle could be fought. The day of our mediation he was hanging out with the 'boys' (my ex, his attorney, and the mediator) checking out my ex's attorney's new pick-up truck, when I drove up.
During that mediation my ex and I made compromises. I left there crying because what I had agreed to could've possibly resulted in it being easier for the program to deny me phone access to my son. When I got home and read the document I discovered that my ex's 'compromise' was not listed, only mine. I ripped up the document and fired my attorney immediately.
What rights, if any do you have? You can show up with your divorce decree and demand visitation anytime it is court ordered. That document supercedes all program policies. If they don't release him, call or go to the police dept and ask for assistance. If you have to force the issue, this could actually have a positive effect for you in future family court matters.
If you decide to hire an attorney, severely scrutinize him/her in an interview. Ask for a specific plan of action that will get your son home quickly- an injunction. If s/he varies from what was agreed upon in the initial meeting, fire her/him immediately and file a complaint.
Then... start the process over again.
If you happen to get one with any integrity at all, then argue that services are available locally- the placement is inappropriate and too austere, that he was placed in violation of the ICPC (search WWF for more info on that), and do not let them lead you into a custody battle which could take years and tens-to-hundreds of thousands of dollars. You need immediate results- get the course of action s/he will take in writing, preferably in the contract. If they can't produce, move on.
You are not the only parent who has found themselves in this position. Expect the very real possibility that the program will perjure themselves in order to sway the judge. It won't be an easy fight, but one that I had to take on even though I knew the odds were against me. Good luck.
Here's the irony of this bullshit. If you go get your son you could risk being charged with kidnapping, but your spouse placing your son there is not considered kidnapping. A precedent needs to be set in terms of programs colluding with disgruntled parents who would seek to punish their child and ex with a program placement.
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SO WHEN THIS 17 YEAR OLD TURNS 18 THEN SHOULD I, OR CAN I THEN LISTEN TO THEM? I ALMOST FORGOT IF YOUR UNDER 18 YOU HAVE NOT A VOICE. IT WAS GREAT ADVISE BY THE WAY MORE THAN YOUR INPUT ANYWAY....
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As soon as the child is 18 he can leave of his own free will. Make sure he knows that, and be there for him so he has someone to go to. His dad will try to pressure him to stay or cut off all contact with him (that is if this program does anything like a exit plan) so just tell the kid that 1. he CANT be made to stay and 2. if his dad does that YOU will take care of him.
Its gonna be hard, but this is just the way it goes. Sorry you got sucked into this mess. Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian
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Depending on the dad's finances and determination, he could extend custody beyond 18, or attempt to anyway.
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I'd suggest you get an order to show cause and try to re-establish your parental rights. Ask for joint custody again. Once you have joint custody they will need the consent of both parents. Is this school in California? I've never heard of it before.
Life is like a bird, at any given moment it is droping a load. It is only a matter of time before one eventually find you.
SysAdmin
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On 2005-07-14 10:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Go and listen to a 17 year old. nice"
Go ahead, plug your ears and say "lalalalala" if that's what you have to do to sleep at night.
The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.".
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President
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This site has a phone number and some links. Might get some leads there.
http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9453 (http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9453)
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
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Here's one
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=1893&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=1893&forum=9)
As always, beware of trolls! Unless, of course, you are a troll. No offense if not. But I wonder if program trolls ever wind up trolling each other irl and, if so, how far along they get in the discovery process before they realize it?
It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author
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There is a woman in NY who is a great resource for NY stuff - her name is Dee Alpert here is the link to her site http://www.specialeducationmuckraker.com/ (http://www.specialeducationmuckraker.com/) she is a tireless advocate (not ed con) for children and families, she also is huge on the special education stuff and exposing bad people, educators, and providers. I have found her to be very informed on the NY stuff and willing to share information. You can also google her she is all over google. I would or you could join our list serve at pfrr.org and join the region NY is in and the PFRR America one someone I know has had a kid in there or has had experience with this program. Good luck it is always best to be informed and know what you are getting yourself and your child into.
Also in MA if the child is placed on an IEP and not private pay they can stay until 22 depending on their abilitie to make decisions but it doesn't seem as though this is an issue in your situation.
Andrea
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Have any former clients of this school filed affidavits? Are there any police reports on the place?
This is why people should file affidavits regarding the program they were in. Even if you never get anything from it directly, I think other people can use it to help their court case, or for the real information about a program.
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On 2005-07-14 17:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
Also in MA if the child is placed on an IEP and not private pay they can stay until 22 depending on their abilitie to make decisions ...
Andrea
You say that like it's a good thing! When a well-packaged web of lies
has been sold gradually to the masses
over generations, the truth will seem
utterly preposterous and its speaker
a raving lunatic.
--Dresden James
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GET YOUR CHILD OUT NOW!
There was a suicide at the Family foundation School in Hancock
Posted March 5, 2004
Recent Sad Events at the Family School
Press Release
Contact: Sidney Parham 845-887-5213
Hancock, NY
(March 4, 2004) At approximately 8:20 a.m. on March 4, 2004, a male student jumped from a second story balcony at the Family Foundation School outside of Hancock, New York. Within minutes trained school staff began CPR. He was transported by ambulance to Delaware Valley Hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival.
The 17-year-old from Virginia had been at this emotional growth school for just two weeks. After a difficult first four days, the student seemed to be adjusting to his life at the school. On Wednesday during group counseling, he confessed to having had suicidal thoughts and was subsequently seen by a staff Clinical Social Worker. During this interview, the student indicated he had no plan to commit suicide or harm himself in any way, said he felt better after talking with the social worker. However, senior administration at the school maintained it was standard practice for such situations to continue monitoring the student for any changes that might indicate an imminent crisis. The initial investigation revealed no precipitating incident leading up to this tragedy and no suicide note was found.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/fam ... icide.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/familyschoolsuicide.html)
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Also, on Alexia Park's (who wrote American Gulag) webdite, http://www.teenliberty.org/Dear_Alexia.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/Dear_Alexia.htm), there is a letter which says
"Hi Alexia. 12/20/04. We are compiling a reader by and for teens on the systematic abuse of children in institutions such as those on your website...
....This reader is being compiled by two teenage artists and writers- Nick, who was locked up in the Family Foundation School in New York, Second Nature
Wilderness Program in Utah, and Saint Paul's Prep School in Arizona, and his close friend Sarah."
Obviously we can infer that Family Foundation school is indeed a lockdown.
Nick gave his email on the site as Nick- mindweller@yahoo.com
maybe you should contact him?
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On 2005-07-14 19:14:00, Antigen wrote:
On 2005-07-14 17:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
Also in MA if the child is placed on an IEP and not private pay they can stay until 22 depending on their abilitie to make decisions ...
Andrea
You say that like it's a good thing!
No I am not saying it like it is a good thing I am telling the truth stating the facts isn't that what it is all about? You may be well intended and I commend you for that - but to question the facts as being a good thing is ridiculous? It is a fact it is the truth under IDEA that is the law, doesn't mean we have to like it, it is what it is. Ya know their are two sides to every story, and the glass is always 1/2 full. Radical I am not a radical - do I think their is a need for some places for some kids yes, do I strongly believe that Parents and Consumers should have all the facts all the truth's YES YOU BET I DO, not my version, not my perception, but the facts and the truth. I am so happy you have committed your life to this web board, your writing and questioning me does not insult me at all, I am truly truly in belief that I am one of the good persons, believe me or not I am on your side, but I also know that I cannot nor will try to control parents and their decisions all I can do is present the FACTS and the TRUTH. If this is done in a radical way the credibility is sometimes questioned, I used to be radical and got no where now I am getting to bunches of parents, and making a difference. I commend you and your energy and the ability to have nothing to do all day but post on forums, I on the other hand stand strong in telling the truth and giving all the facts, as everyone is upset about Struggling Teens givng their version the way they see it, you can't have it both ways either you tell the truth, state true facts and be able to back them up or don't say anything at all.
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Forgive me for being really dumb but what is a troll? I have an idea but just want to know if Im right or just being "parinoid"
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It should be set up like a criminal court, if parents are going to decied to relenquish there control and supervison over there teen, they should be heard in a court to decied if the teen is truly "out of control, defiant" Its pretty fucked up (i wasnt gunna say it but it fits) when this country gives child molesters, drug dealers, theives, killers, more rights then children who have not ever been tried and convicted of anything, but found guilty by a money making industry like The Family School. If all teens "behaved " Just think how much money they would loose, possibly even shut down, it bullshit!
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A bit of education for you Anti - no I wasn't saying that because it was a good thing I said it because it is the truth a fact - what credibility do you have if you don't tell the truth - the facts? I doubt any, at any rate let me explain:
Under IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Educational Act - Federal Special Education Law) a child who is on an IEP (Individual Education Plan)can if needed or neccesary (decided with the team which includes the parents) that a child/adolscent may need more time to graduate up to 22 years of age. I had said if this child is publically paid and in this placement with an IEP then this could be the case if the child/adolescent was not able (due to the severity of the disability) to make this decision or be a part of it. So before you go flaring off with the typing - understand the very systems you are trying to change or in your case shut down.
Ya know whatever terrible things you have been exposed to in your life I am so sorry for although not my doing! What ever it was it is quite obvious to anyone who reads your posts that it was so awful it has lead you to be so vicious about people who really could be well intended (myself included I am well intended), but go about things differently than you. I do what I do because of personal experiences my daughter and others including myself faced while she was in residential hell a while back, I know that if I don't do something to make it better for the next parents and families it will get worse or would get worse, I have been doing this since 1997 and have a bit of insight that others may not have yet.
At any rate I am on your side on a lot of things, I am pissed at the Ed Consultant and Struggling Teen Industry it is a huge money making industry I also pick up the pieces in MA for the parents who do go through them, and have not great results, I help clean up the messes some of them make. but I also believe that their is always going to be a need for kids to have to be in Residential Schools (their is a population that it is the only resort after all others have been exhausted) no matter how unfortunate, and not being fooled myself - know that a lot of the MA programs are not involved with these scams. When they need to be held to toe believe me they are.
I can't nor won't tell parents what to do, I will listen to a desperate parent, help them to make a decision on their own by presenting all facts ALL facts, I also NEVER refer to Ed Consultants or any of those "associations" this is a decision I made from day one, but knowing that kids are going to end up in placements came to a concious decision that the parents and kids as consumers should be better informed.
Remember in order to promote positive changes you must have adequete and reasonable solutions.
Andrea
PS I remembered my password, this is why I am signed in....
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I never post anonymously so for the purposes of this thread call me FuriousGeorge.
First impression I get: either original poster is genuinely a parent in an unfortunate position, or its someone who purposely tugs at the heart strings of people to get information on someone they have no business knowing anything about.
im just sayin: dad's dont usually get full and sole custody, so for this one to get it maybe there is genuinely something wrong with the mom.
how do we really know that's the mom or even the woman. (how could someone lie like that on the internet!)
ANYWAY I JUST WENT THERE FOR MY BRAT REALTIVE TO SUPPORT HIS PARENTS AND HERE IS MY IMPRESSION:
#1 You can leave when you are 18.
when he is 18 you tell him to get a backpack together, walk somewhere where you can wire him money, and maybe he will go to you. if you cant get him money, or he cant figure out how to use money to get to you,.. let's just say it wasnt meant to be.
#2 Its a school for brats in the classical sense, not the mentally ill or career criminals.
They're rich kids usually smoking pot, which in and of itself isnt bad (don't get me wrong), failing classes, getting in trouble one way or another, promiscuous, defiant, irresponsible, manipulative, and so much more :smile:
These kids almost always have had the world handed to them. They think that mom or dad (or the house keeper) put clothes in the washing machine which teleports it into their closet. These kids usually pit one parent against another especially in cases of divorce.
I cannot emphasize enough: they are master manipulators, and even in cases where both parents are present they run the household.
Back to the origianl post: are we really to be surprised: a brat gets put in boarding school and convinces the noncustodial parent that the custodial parent is actually a sadistic animal who is only using the child to hurt them. How hard is it to convince a parent with zero custidy of that?
#3 This school is very expensive (circa $50K) if daddy put him there he obviously loves him very much
Not everything i've read a about boarding schools in general is positive, and since I also have a realtive in this school I made sure to do some research on my own.
Most of the people that complain are manipulated parents like the poster. They main complaint: the schools try to keep you there for too long to milk the parents wallets.
The Family Foundation is an 18 month program. Who knew it would take more than three month to change a child's entire perspective on life?
The second major complaint is that phone conversations are monitored.
At this school they are as well... by other students. You get hung up on if you disrespect your mom and dad, for instance, by trying to convince someone without custody to rescue you (hint: when your kid says: I promise I'll be good mommy i swear!!! He is lieing. Thats why he got sent there)
I didnt want anything military or anything too religious for my blood, and I was pleased to see some things. The kids make their own food and do their own luandry, most of them for the first time in their lives. When they say jump, the kids respond "How High".
These kids are usually such defiant brats, they wait to see what borders have been laid down just to cross them. At this school, when assembly starts at 12:00 sharp the entire student body meets, one of the faculty starts the announcements by asking how they are doing. Literally all of them said "Bright Eyed and Bushy Tailed" in perfect unison.
Am I a little scared that the even the kids who gave the tour were so universally positive about the school around us? Yes. One of our tour students said tenatively that he planned to stay past 18, but at the "Family Group" meeting, the staff (and students) confronted this kid about the desire to leave.
On the other hand, do I ahve any illusion that all these kids are misunderstood? Absolutely not. I'm 24 now, so I'm no conservative geezer. I see what happened to the kids who had parents that couldnt control them. The only people who end up paying for it almost as much as the kids are the spineless parents.
I was no angel, but I've also tutored a kid or two since turning 18 and I'll say this: kids are brats. Yes, its the parent's fault 99% of the time, but lets face why boarding schools are becomming so popular: you parents cant raise your own damn children.
When I screwed up my parents rocked my world and while they may have been too harsh from time to time, when it comes to brats I think its better to err on the size of caution. I'm not saying you gotta beat your brat (much), I can count on one hand the amount of times I got slapped (or maybe a bit more), and I only wish I had said "Thank you Sir can I have another" because even if I didnt fully deserve it once, it gave me the fear of God that these kids lack. (I deserved it!)
On the other hand this is the bottom line. As Bill Maher says, I'm not having kids till you people start having some I would want my kids to hang around with. If you cant raise your brat (and if the court says you can't you probably can't) send his ass to some people who can.
To hear these kids at this particular school talk about goals and their emotional responses to recent obstacles is impressive. I'm not saying all boarding schools are great, and I'm not saying terrible things don't happen, but if you are really a concerned parent, stop getting played by your kid. This school seemed just right for my blood, and it will probably make your blood a better person too, in the end.
So thats my experience and resulting opinion, since you asked for it. Here's one quick prediction: If you child spends more than 6 months in that school before his 18th birthday, dont be at all surprised if he stays to get his High School Diploma.
(one final thought for parents of "non-troubled kids")
Does you kid wanna go on to college? Does he at least try in High School to achieve this goal (pass all his classes with a C- or better)? Does he abstain from drugs besides the occasional joint and a beer with their buddies? When you punish him, does he take it?
If you can answer all of these questions with "yes" then your kids has some values in line, and will probably grow up just fine without a boarding school. You cant protect them from what they will see as soon as they get to school (or go live in college) but you can prepare them to act right by doing whats in their own best interest.
Give them responsiblities and come down on them like a siht storm when they don't know how to act. Its a fine line, but maybe if you smell a little beer on your kids breath for the first time at 17 years old, maybe you let that one slide. Sometimes you gotta let a kid be a kid.
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On 2005-07-21 16:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
I cannot emphasize enough: they are master manipulators, and even in cases where both parents are present they run the household.
Back to the origianl post: are we really to be surprised: a brat gets put in boarding school and convinces the noncustodial parent that the custodial parent is actually a sadistic animal who is only using the child to hurt them. How hard is it to convince a parent with zero custidy of that?
Bullshit, they're children! They're not masters of anything yet. Remember that the nocustodial parent has known the custodial parent longer than the kid has. They usually have a pretty good idea what to believe or not about them.
Do you honestly believe that money buys love? That's very sad.
Andrea, sorry if I took your comment the wrong way. You seemed to be suggesting that a parent could take advantage of this nifty legal trick to keep their kids incarcerated w/o due process for even longer.
Immortality: A toy which people cry for, And on their knees apply for, Dispute, contend and lie for, And if allowed Would be right proud Eternally to die for.
--Ambrose Bierce
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
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No problem Anti - it is just the law that protects kids rights to an education as long as needed or until 22 if they are living with a disability.... I wanted you to understand, I was actually shocked you didn't.
`a
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I didnt want anything military or anything too religious for my blood, and I was pleased to see some things. The kids make their own food and do their own luandry, most of them for the first time in their lives. When they say jump, the kids respond "How High".
For you to think that the Family School is not too religious, proves just how ignorant and unobservant you are. Religion dictates everything in that place. Everyone has to believe in God, or they will drag rocks up hills and be held out of class, get zeros and get left back to generate more income for the school. Attend one of their graduations and listen to the students' speeches. God, god, god, god, lord Jesus Christ. That's pretty much what you will hear. No real world solutions. just "The Lord Jess Christ saved me."
And maybe we do live in a world taken over by brattism. But you don't think there's any other solution that may not involve handing over thousands to some private prison. But the brat in a soup kitchen. Make them do charity work. Tons of opportunities, just that these parents are too lazy to do the real work.
And believe me, the students that are hand picked to lead the visitor's tours are the chosen ones, the ones who rat out everyone else for brownie points. They enjoy and get off on their own power. You think anyone who's there could really tell you what's going on in that place? They would be hauling rocks and sitting in corners for months. Keep in mind that they choreograph everything for visitors; they have it down to a science. And how disturbing is it that everyone is chanting in unison, "Bright Eyed and Bushy Tailed." I'm sure that someone is that group is having a bad day, and yet they have to lie about it, or face punishment. The place is a cult, plain and simple.
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Isn't Family School based on the 12 Steps ? Since it is, you are surprised that religion and believing in a higher power play a part in those that choose to work the steps ? The 12 steps are a real world solution for many of us.
You are also wrong when you say you are put on work detail for not believing in God.
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On 2005-07-21 20:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No problem Anti - it is just the law that protects kids rights to an education as long as needed or until 22 if they are living with a disability.... I wanted you to understand, I was actually shocked you didn't.
`a"
My god! In this context, that's just morbid! I remember the very hour when Straight announced the formation of the 7th Step society (their aftercare program) It was extremely difficult to maintain that blithe, mindless grin. I just wanted to scream. And I remember when I got word that my mom was selling the house and moving to Sarasota to be closer to the "program". I don't know what in the world I would have done if some altruistic idiot had stepped in to "protect" my "right" to "education" for another couple of years. I probably would have seriously hurt someone in a bid to escape into the prison system.
I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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Its FuriousGeorge again
Bullshit, they're children! They're not masters of anything yet.
HA. You'd be surprised what 17 year olds have accomplished.
If you think that kids arent capable of manipulating their parents you are entirely incorrect. Either your kids are angels, or you have just never spoken with a troubled teen.
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On 2005-07-22 04:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I didnt want anything military or anything too religious for my blood, and I was pleased to see some things. The kids make their own food and do their own luandry, most of them for the first time in their lives. When they say jump, the kids respond "How High".
For you to think that the Family School is not too religious, proves just how ignorant and unobservant you are.
Like the guy who posted after you said its based on 12 steps. If the kids are talking about Jesus its because they chose to. That rock you said they would be dragging up the hill, that can be their higher power if they want it to be. Mass is Catholic one day, and its a Jewish synagogue the next.
I would entertain an argument that 12 step programs dont fix adults, but with kids they have been shown to significantly lower recidivism rates AND THATS REAL.
BTW, what other school does longitudinal studies about the welfare of their children after graduation. Do some real research and get back to me.
And maybe we do live in a world taken over by brattism. But you don't think there's any other solution that may not involve handing over thousands to some private prison. But the brat in a soup kitchen. Make them do charity work. Tons of opportunities, just that these parents are too lazy to do the real work.
you made my point with the last sentence. only its not cuz their lazy all the time, tis cuz their scared of their manipulating brat who plays on their fears and emotions.
And believe me, the students that are hand picked to lead the visitor's tours are the chosen ones, the ones who rat out everyone else for brownie points.
Uh huh, that explains why the second kid on my tour was made to carry around a plaque to remind himself why hes there. He was only there for 6 months. Do i realize that they arent aloud to blast the school? Yes. Should a kid who hits his parents have any say opinion on the matter? No.
AND BTW, we got their two hours early and they accomodated us, thats how choreographed it is. We were allowed to go into any building we wanted, talk to any student we wanted, and listen in on any interaction.
And how disturbing is it that everyone is chanting in unison, "Bright Eyed and Bushy Tailed." I'm sure that someone is that group is having a bad day, and yet they have to lie about it, or face punishment. The place is a cult, plain and simple."
Its more disturbing when that same brat is failing classes on purpose because summer school is a great way for him to get high without his parents finding out.
Like I said before, these kids just want to know what the rules are so they can breakem. The fact that when the school jumps they say "How High" sounds great to me.
A cult? You make it sound like 90% of the kids who go in there dont come out better than when they went in. This school works on a basic principal (besides the 12 step) that parents dont understand. When your kid screws up you shrink his world and you make him earn everything back.
The fact that these kids are trying to earn something and chanting on command just shows me they learned a lesson life was gonna teach them the hard way soon enough.
And to the misguided fellow who said these kids are just 17 and can't be masters of anything:
17 year olds have been chessmasters, sports champions, serial murderers, and the founders of billion dollar corporations.
The brattiest of them direct all this potential to stopping their parents from raising them right. When the parent says they are grounded and can't go out they kid says he's gonna hurt himself and the parents let him go. If that doesnt work the kids dont actually go trough with hurting themselves, they just find a way to hurt their parents. These kids are provided everything their entire life for free, and now they think their parents dont have a right to raise them. Ive seen what happens when teenagers raise themselves and its not pretty.
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Ok, you're right. Though they can't vote, enter into contracts, drink, hold jobs w/o parental consent, rent an apartment or really do anything w/o parental consent, the kids have all the power. We poor, hapless adults are at their mercy. It's kill or be killed!
Oh, and while were at it, all the money and power in the drug trade is controled by 16yo boys w/ dark complexions. All we have to do is keep rounding them up and throwing them in cages to solve that problem, right? Never mind the rich white guys making millions off of either end of that deal.
You're not very bright, are you?
We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth...
For my part, I am willing to know the whole truth;
to know the worst, and to provide for it.
--Patrick Henry
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The funniest part of this story, in a dark humor sort of way, is how short sighted are the troubled parents who buy into this line of bullshit.
Don't you understand that, one day, you'll be old and feeble? Who do you suppose will care for you, who will decide whether to put you in a home? Who will choose the home? Who will visit you? Does it occure to you that, if you're treated badly, your grown ofspring might just snicker and tell you you're imgagining things when you try to tell them about it?
Sucker!Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw.
--Bastard Administrator
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On 2005-07-22 11:02:00, Antigen wrote:
"Ok, you're right. Though they can't vote, enter into contracts, drink, hold jobs w/o parental consent, rent an apartment or really do anything w/o parental consent, the kids have all the power. We poor, hapless adults are at their mercy. It's kill or be killed!
Oh, and while were at it, all the money and power in the drug trade is controled by 16yo boys w/ dark complexions. All we have to do is keep rounding them up and throwing them in cages to solve that problem, right? Never mind the rich white guys making millions off of either end of that deal.
You're not very bright, are you?
We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth...
For my part, I am willing to know the whole truth;
to know the worst, and to provide for it.
--Patrick Henry
"
way to change the subject when backed into a corner. the legal rights of the child have NOTHING to do with the power he wields in the household.
btw, there is a reason kids cant do all these things w/o parental permission. some crazy lawmakers determined a 46 year old may make better descisions than some teenager.
and the way you ended your post by an attack on my intelligence: magnifique.
its like arguing with a child... oh wait i get it now.
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On 2005-07-22 11:05:00, Antigen wrote:
"The funniest part of this story, in a dark humor sort of way, is how short sighted are the troubled parents who buy into this line of bullshit.
Don't you understand that, one day, you'll be old and feeble? Who do you suppose will care for you, who will decide whether to put you in a home? Who will choose the home? Who will visit you? Does it occure to you that, if you're treated badly, your grown ofspring might just snicker and tell you you're imgagining things when you try to tell them about it?
So assuming I'm a parent with an out of control kid (which im not), I should just let him run his own life, fail outta school, not go to college, hang out with his loser marginalized friends who do the same thing, live with me till he's 35, and THEN hes really gonna be able to afford to put me in a good nursing home.
what you will realize when you grow up (the only excuse for your opinions are a> that you are a child or b> that you have no real experience with messed up children) is that in the end, your parents were really looking out for what was best for you. they were young once too, and most of them can tell the difference between teenage rebellion, and a kid who is gonna be 18 soon and has the values and maturity of a 12 year old. Believe me, there are MANY out there.
you are probably right that in a world where children were given more rights they would be forced to grow up quicker, but the fact is that even at 18, the way our society is set up these kids ARENT adults.
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i really dont want to get into an instulting match with you, we are having a civil conversation in other threads, but i was surprised when i looked at this one to see you calling me ignorant. you are really civilized with me (for the most part in the other threads) and your points seem better (im not taking a shot at you there) but i could be wrong.
you gotta admit though: a lot of these kids really do wield a lot of power in their household. parents love their kids so much that they allow the kid to win out over them and eventually it becomes too late.
almost all kids go through a phase at 16 where they hate there parents, i certainly did, ironically behind drug usage, but when my mom used to threaten me with "military school" it was always about my grades, not the skunky smell on my jacket.
i never cared for high school, but i managed to get into a pretty decent school eventually and i was able to "turn it on" academically for mom and dad, even if it was only at first to prove to them that i could handle being away from them and handeling my business,
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Anti-
I don't want kids rights ever violated, and please get educated on IDEA and Special Education some kids need more time, and extra services in order to be succesful as adults their rights are not taken away, and IEP and Special Education can keep a student in school till 22 if deemed neccesary but when they are over 18 they have to agree to it, unless of course they are unable to do so, such as MR etc. it has proven to be helpful to a lot of kids who appreciated it. Again, if you were educated on some of the good protections in place for kids who need them and was able to get past your own anger you would see not all of us are bad people. By the way we are working on pulling together a huge press conference for next week against Brat Camp with some parents, advocacy groups, and providers hoping it will get national attention. Root for us I will keep you updated.
`a
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for the mother who has her son there but doesnt agree with it: My parents did not agree on me being sent there. They are divorced. My Dad is the one who didnt want me there. The truth is even though he did not have custody of me, he could have just came and got me out whenever he pleased to, but didnt. Ive seen it happen to quite a few students. So regardless of what anyone says u can just go get ur son. My parents and FFS are still going to court about this even though i graduated last june.
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Ya'll, I haven't been following the FFS threads, but I note that they keep coming up on top. Anybody think I should give ya'll your own forum?
Last couple of times I did this, I just sort of did it and ppl got lost and confused for awhile. This time, I think I'll do it differently. If half a dozen people, or a few less than that who feel very strongly about it will kindly pick through the archives for threads that should move to a new Family Foundation form, I'll do the chore.
Contact me via http://fornits.com/comnt.php (http://fornits.com/comnt.php) w/ that and a name and description if intd.so long as the priest, that professional negator, slanderer and poisoner of life, is regarded as a superior type of human being, there cannot be any answer to the question: What is truth?
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher