Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Devlin on July 11, 2005, 06:49:00 PM
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i love laughing at warped parents!!!
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 11, 2005 01:32 PM
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Ok, lets look at this logically.
You say your child is very smart, which is a wonderful thing. That is why sending him off to camp, or to school would be a foolish move, learning at camps and at resident schools is nearly non existant, because they are always trying to treat this and that.
You say your sun is disrespectful, lets look at that. In your story you seem to do nothing diserveing of respect. You sent him to a out of disrect alternative school, which ruined his year. You and your husband are not even unifyed on what should be done. Why in the wrold should he respect you? And dont lay down a line about I diserve respect because of my position as parent, because thats bull, respect for a position in work is one thing, in the social and family interaction circles is completely diffrent. You have to earn the respect of a youth, with most it is already given freely, but if you botch it up it will be taken away. He does not respect you because of your past actions.
Somthing you also have to look at, smart children dont bend over and take it. Thats is the fact of youth, many of them can be sharper than the adults around them, and they have no difficulty seeing past any and all attempts to modify who they are. I would compare trying to break a smart independant child with trying to break a POW, it can be done, but why would you treat them like that if you care about them? Most likely, if you send him away he would hate you and disrespect you all the more, unless you break his spirit, then you give him a whole list of new issues.
If you want to send him off so some dis-honored drill sergent can scream at him, so be it, but it is not the best move you can make.
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Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
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Posts: 10 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
posted July 11, 2005 02:58 PM
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Overlordd, your credibility on this site is non-existent. Please go back to Dev-ville, or whereever you came from.
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Posts: 351 | From: Dallas, TX | Registered: Jun 2003 | Logged: 209.30.22.127 |
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Overlordd, you are worthy of the name you use here. You speak with the voice of a person who has never let anyone silence his soul, so what you say is the plain truth. For this you have earned my respect, brother. B.P.
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Overlorrd is not an adult!!!
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On 2005-07-12 03:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Overlorrd is not an adult!!!"
So?
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Ahh, so your dev! Nice to meet you.
Yes, that is me, and no, I dont let any one slience my soul, thank you very much for your respect. And no, im not an adult, but I will be in about 15 days (im 17)
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Oh and here is my responce to his post.
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 11, 2005 08:32 PM
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Who in the name of god is dev? I mean lord people, come on, you must really hate this guy to compare him to me.
Anyway, having crediblity is unessasary for what I wish to do. I wish to give the aspect and view of a youth, of which I am one. You can take my statements for what you like, but as a youth, I respresnt us, on this forum, seeing as all it seems is a place to attack and belittle children. While this may not be what it is attended for it is what it seems to be used for. You are airing out your childrens secrets in public. Have you asked them if it would be ok to post their life, with your spin, on the internet? No, I don't think you did. So as long as your here, I will also be here. I dont need crediblity to state the truth.
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Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
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Posts: 11 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 67.34.28.127 |
(there was some other stuff I wanted to say, but I thought I would get baned for it so I kept it to my self)[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-07-12 06:15 ]
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It is quite entertaining to watch how rabid those people can get - keep up the good work OverLordd.
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I don't get it. Is overrlord trying to act stupid or can you really not spell worth a damn? Are you all the same person? :???:
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What Im saying, is you might make a good troll and entertainment. But no one is going to take you seriously with the points you make and the amount of spelling mistakes. It sounds/looks like a 12 year old wrote that post.
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Yeah, I can spell worth crap, my skills are in the maths and sciences. I would edit my posts, but I don't know how to edit the damned posts, its a weird system they are running on that site. I am the same person yes. There are a few bad errors I see... hehe sun for son, and stuff such as, but I was typing fast ::shrugs:: ehh it does not really matter, they can pick to take me seriously or not, what I have to say is very serious.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-07-12 07:17 ]
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Keep it up overlord..you are doing good work. These parents violate the basic human rights of their children, then have the audacity to post their children's private lives on the internet...all in an attempt to justify their behaviors.
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What website are the quotes from?
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You guys are a joke. Most of the kids post their OWN lives on the internet in blogs, which is how the parents know so much in the first place! Most of the kids discussed on the strugglingteens board bear no resemblance to any of you. They are bright kids from families who love them and care about their success and emotional health. They can actually structure a sentence and engage in meaningful dialogue. I wuold suggest that you stay here in your playground and stop embarrassing yourselves on the grown-ups board.
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Most of the kids discussed on the strugglingteens board bear no resemblance to any of you. They are bright kids from families who love them and care about their success and emotional health. They can actually structure a sentence and engage in meaningful dialogue. I would suggest that you stay here in your playground and stop embarrassing yourselves on the grown-ups board.
Oh, yes you must be right, because the fact that I am a member of National Honor Society means I'm an idiot. My high school graduation with honors and distinction means jack crap and my BSA Eagle rank which only 2% of all scouts get is useless as well. You?re completely right! I see the light.
Remember, not every one is an idiot, and there is always some one smarter than you. I would recommend that you actually respond and debate posts before you decide to call people idiots.
P.S. I fixed your spelling errors in your post, before you call us idiots I would also recomend you do that, you will notice that I have spelling errors in my posts on that board, but I dont call people idiots either. (they have sence been fixed)
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On 2005-07-12 11:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You guys are a joke. Most of the kids post their OWN lives on the internet in blogs, which is how the parents know so much in the first place! Most of the kids discussed on the strugglingteens board bear no resemblance to any of you. They are bright kids from families who love them and care about their success and emotional health. They can actually structure a sentence and engage in meaningful dialogue. I wuold suggest that you stay here in your playground and stop embarrassing yourselves on the grown-ups board."
Its the Struggling Teens board which is an embarassment to everyone who posts there. Openly discussing how they want to lock their children up and systematically abuse them is crazy. And yet you find it totally normal. And who is embarassing themselves? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Why am I not surprised that a program parent can't distinguish the difference between a teen sharing his/her story and the teen's parent divulging information about the teen on a 'bash the kid' site?
Or posting their opinions freely at a Survivor site, while heavily censoring their pro-program site.
How would you respond if your kid asked you to delete the information you posted publicly about him/her?
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My parents have always cared about my "success and emotional health", as many other parents do.
They can still make mistakes. Huge mistakes. In fact, parents who are deeply concerned about their child are vulnerable to manipulation by the "teen help industry".
That is why these survivor sites are so important. They provide different perspectives on the issue, not just the stories provided by the programs.
If this site had been around 10 or 12 years ago, I probably would never have been sent to Provo Canyon.
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On 2005-07-12 11:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You guys are a joke. Most of the kids post their OWN lives on the internet in blogs, which is how the parents know so much in the first place! Most of the kids discussed on the strugglingteens board bear no resemblance to any of you. They are bright kids from families who love them and care about their success and emotional health. They can actually structure a sentence and engage in meaningful dialogue. I wuold suggest that you stay here in your playground and stop embarrassing yourselves on the grown-ups board."
Dude, I'm a New York Times bestselling author. I graduated with an above-average GPA from a national top ten, public, science and engineering, post-secondary educational institution. I scored *well* into the top two percent on the SATs.
I love my family and they love me.
Others on Fornits have their own triumphs to cite.
I would suggest that you stop making yourself look foolish by jumping to conclusions about people you don't know.
Julie Cochrane
aka Timoclea
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Thanks Dev and Overlordd for all the work that you do. Never mind the insults someone posted. I have read some posts on struggling teens and they are quite disturbing to say the least.
Those people just want someone to whine to and make people believe they did not screw up as parents.
Besides mental illness and developmental issues, I find it hard to believe their little Billie and Susie just woke up and one day became the teenagers from hell. That takes years and years to happen and during the child's formative years it is the PARENT that has the most impact on a child's development and behaviors.
If these children are doing all this acting out as the parents say they are, then if they instilled the proper tools and guidance in their kids from day one these kids will come around eventually and grow out of a lot of stuff once the hormones even out and the brain finishes developing.
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hmmmm...I'll have to investigate this "teen help" board, as I've never seen it before.
Okay, the Ambiens kicking in now, better lay down! (I work night shift 12h x3 per week at the hospital, sometimes difficult to keep a sleep schedule.)
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Timoclea (julie)
What did you right? I would like to read it, whats it about? please tell me, how long did it take to get to best seller status.
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On another note, I present to you, absolute and complete proof that they troll us and ghost us, the pricks.
goldenguru
Member
Member # 4289
posted July 12, 2005 05:41 PM
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Overlordd~
I appreciate your "concern". You needn't be highly disturbed. And they are not "dragging" her back, she was very much a part of this decision. She did not feel ready to just jump back into the lake without a paddle. She wanted some safety nets in place should she "screw up" (her words not mine).
They do not have "their claws in her". She happens to love her therapist and has the highest regard for her as a human being. A good support system is imperative to achieve the best possible outcome upon returning home.
So, obviously you have a beef with programs. In fact, I know that you are affiliated with Fornits Wayward Web forum. I think maybe you got lost in cyberspace. This forum is for PARENTS who like to offer support and encouragement.
How is she feeling? It wouldn't matter if I told you the truth. You would say she's been brainwashed, in fear of repercussions or just talking the talk. So I won't waste my breath. But thanks for asking.
[ July 12, 2005, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: goldenguru ]
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Kelly
I call your attention to the third paragraph. I have not said I have anything to do with fornits while I was on the board, so she must troll here, or ghost, whatever you wanna call it. It has been said they did, but I never saw any proof of it, now we have it.
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On 2005-07-13 05:52:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Timoclea (julie)
What did you right? I would like to read it, whats it about? please tell me, how long did it take to get to best seller status."
I wrote _Cally's War_ with John Ringo. It was released October 1 of 2003 and was in the October 10 list of NYT hardcover fiction at #31 for that one list before dropping back off. :smile: Which would seem kind of like a "Big fat hairy deal" except that it's a science fiction novel and those very rarely hit the bestseller lists at all.
It's common for books to hit the bestseller lists right after release if they're going to hit it at all, because you get most of your sales on a book in the first month after its release.
The book's about a female assassin who looks and acts 20 but is really 51, and she's suffering from career burnout. Can you really kill people as a job, even very bad people, for thirty years without having it affect you? The Earth's been through a horrible war with aliens that basically strip worlds like locusts. We "won," but it knocked our world population down to a billion. It's forty years post-war, and some of our alien "allies" weren't really our friends. Now we're heavily in debt to them and they're pulling the strings of our puppet government. Cally works for the underground resistance organization, human and alien, that's fighting them.
There's a leak in her organization. Cally and her backup team have to find the leak and shut it down fast, before the entire resistance is compromised. All this while clinging to sanity by her fingernails and dealing with the inner demons that are tearing her apart.
It's a spin-off story in John's _Legacy of the Aldenata_ series. Some people have said you need to read the first four books to catch everything, others have said it "worked" for them as a standalone. A lot of people enjoyed it, obviously or it wouldn't have had so many sales, but it's been a love it or hate it book. Mostly because a lot of people apparently didn't get the memo that even though the four mainline books are straight military SF, _Cally's War_ is a psychological spy novel with a fair dose of romance in it and a bit more sex than the four mainline novels. Since a lot of John's readership is conservative Christian, well, you can imagine. :smile:
Anyway, since it's a bit controversial, you may want to read the sample chapters at http://www.baen.com (http://www.baen.com) before deciding if you want to shell out for the hardcover or not--it's not out in paperback yet.
I want *happy* readers. :smile: And I've had a whole lot of those, but the ones who've hated it have been...intense. :smile: :smile: :smile:
Timoclea
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Well, Devlin did invite them all over but most of them took one look and ran away.
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Ok, you got me hooked, im going to go buy it next time I'm at my local B&N :smile: I enjoy a good sci-fi its my favorite type of book, so I will have to read it and I will tell you what I think.
Have you read Orson Scot Card? (Ender's Game and such) What do you think about his underlining themes of child abuse in all his books. I had to stop reading him cause it pissed me off so much.
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Ok even more funny shit while im thinking about it, that made a topic about me!!! hehe, its called Over Lordd, but still, haha, the first lady that posted was nice, but the other one, was mean.
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I'm really surprised they haven't banned and deleted you yet. Something's changing over there. I wonder if Lon is just adapting to the competition or if he's really starting to get an inkling that there is another side to this story.
Oh, btw, the proper term for ppl who read regularly w/o posting is "lurking". And I've heard that the Fornits fora are a "must read" to industry people.
There is not a "fragment" in all nature, for every relative fragment of one thing is a full harmonious unit in itself.
-- John Muir
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Overlordd you should be smacked
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lurking, ghosting, litsl like pronouncing tomato two diffrent ways, hehe, anyway he couldent ban me if he wanted to and wanted to stay in step with his own rules. He is a nice guy, (from how much I have spoken to him) so I don't think he would do that. I have not personally attacked any one, and I have obeyed the rules so ::shrugs:: you guys are welcome to join me if you want. just behave
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I find it hilarious you piss so many people off Overlord. You must be doing something right.
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I do indeed get smacked, generally by my ex, but annon why do you wanna smack me?
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Thats hot.
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Yeah she said that alot. lol :grin:
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Something I note as I look around their forum. The large majority of people there are from very high paying jobs, and most are from bastions of liberalism. Like the west coast, new england and such. could their be a connection to sending kids off and the parents political views? hmm?
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It could have a lot to do with their money.
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On 2005-07-14 06:19:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Something I note as I look around their forum. The large majority of people there are from very high paying jobs, and most are from bastions of liberalism. Like the west coast, new england and such. could their be a connection to sending kids off and the parents political views? hmm?"
I don't think so.
The originator of the Seed was Art Barker,an up north liberal. When the straight attempted to clone the seed, it was done so by a group of mostly republican businessmen.
Tyranny is not exclusive to any political party.
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Come on, they saw a chance to make a dime and they took it, (republicans do that, p.s. I am in no way saying that made what happened ok, its just a compusion for us republicans... you know... "what money? ::Grab:: :rofl: ) it would be interesting to see how it breaks down via political parties for kids sent there.
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A argument about camping, and the safey at Brat Camp
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
posted July 14, 2005 06:41 AM
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Great post, Gordon. Thanks. I am a big believer in the reputable wilderness programs. I think my son made more progress in wilderness than at TBS, actually. He, too, did two stints. There is something magical about the outdoors- my son did a three day solo on his second stint (at his request). I have read much of what he wrote during wilderness, and it was gut-wrenching to see him slowly come to grips with why he was there and what HE had done to get himself there. He later told me that the wilderness therapy was a lot more pure than the TBS program. He had excellent therapists at both places, but at the TBS he said there was a lot of political jockeying by the kids to gain favor- more ratting out of other kids etc. I continue to believe that his wilderness therapist, who is one of the founders of the particular program my son attended, is one of the most gifted people I have ever met.
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Posts: 361 | From: Dallas, TX | Registered: Jun 2003 | Logged: 209.30.38.142 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 07:04 AM
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quote:
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There is something magical about the outdoors-
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::Stares at her, for some reason he can't get past this phrase. while he disagrees with the rest of the post this is what is like a smack in the face to him. Anger, frustration, sadness, pity, rage, it all swirs together into a massive ball. He can't respond for fear of exploding. Frowns deeply at her, completely at a loss for words. He has never felt a knife like that before, not even when a friend betrays him. He gathers him self and says one thing.:: You should not comment about what is precious to me and so many other people, the out doors is NOT a magical place to fix your children.
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Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
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Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
posted July 14, 2005 07:09 AM
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Not only is it a magical place for our children to try to find themselves (not "fix"), but it is a magical place for ALL of us to reconnect with what is important.
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Posts: 361 | From: Dallas, TX | Registered: Jun 2003 | Logged: 209.30.38.142 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 07:15 AM
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quote:
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Not only is it a magical place for our children to try to find themselves (not "fix"), but it is a magical place for ALL of us to reconnect with what is important.
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... I just lost a lot of respect I had grown in you... You just dont understand the out doors do you? Its about freedom, being able to go up, over, down, around, climb the rocks, toss your self off a clif into the water, and be able to do whatever you want with oppresive people miles and miles away... ::sighs and stares at her:: The out doors is like my second home, yet you say things like this, why don't you just come to my home and stab me?
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Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
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Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
BethLewis
Member
Member # 3608
posted July 14, 2005 08:04 AM
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quote:
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A tarp was slung over them and they had sleeping bags and their own clothing to sleep in. That, to a camper, is completely discusting!
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I hate to deter from the original topic BUT... I recently survived Hurricane Cindy on a ridge of a mountain with pounding rain coming down and strong winds. Using merely a tarp, a few of my cohorts who had good tents found themselves swamped. Tarps are not only safe but on my hike of the AT from GA to WV, I used only a tarp. These ladies and gentelmen who are supervising know what's going on. It's not a walk in the park to become wilderness first responder.
Beth
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Posts: 92 | From: Philippi, WV | Registered: Apr 2003 | Logged: 207.255.214.42 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 08:09 AM
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Wilderness first responders are wise in their knowledge of the woods and the know whats going on thats for sure, I know a few. Your missing one major thing. THE KIDS ARE NOT CAMPERS. These kids have no clue whats going on in the woods nor are they suited for it. Sure the First Responders will be ok, but guess what, I care about the kids.
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Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
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Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
Jena
Administrator
Member # 1044
posted July 14, 2005 08:18 AM
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If the outdoors is your second home, then why have you never really camped? Camping can be nothing but a sleeping bag on the ground, or heck a bunch of blankets if you don't have a bag (been there, done that).
I have camped in many different terrains, climates and conditions. I have spent nights in the desert that were so cold our water supply froze...in nothing but a bag on the ground. I have spent nights in rain with nothing but a bag under a tree to try to get shelter from the rain (don't do that if there is lightining). I have had the luxury of a tent at times, sometimes even a cot, but there is nothing wrong with sleeping on the ground. I'm not dead, never had frostbite and haven't suffered from hypothermia or exposure yet.
One of the things I love about the outdoors is the challenge. "Dang, I'm freezing, but can I stick it out?" "Darn, I ache all over, but can I keep going?" The satisfaction that comes from meeting and exceeding those chanllenges is where the satisfaction lies....and the sense of self-reliance, confidence and spiritual healing that so many of our kids need.
My daughter has been to wilderness three times. She regularly goes camping on my farm, but she doesn't really like it. It's not "wild" enough for her. She has a three month old baby, who has been camping at least twice now. She takes the tent for the baby, which I think is prudent given the number of coyotes that frequent the place.
People are much tougher than you want to give us credit for. We are so insulated from the real world of the outdoors anymore that people actually are foolish enough to think that one will die if they don't have a tent. That's malarkey. There are conditions that do dictate what the human body can stand, but that is where an experienced outdoorsperson knows the limits. That's what the staff is there for. I'm glad you are not on staff or my kid would have been sitting in an RV instead of finding herself in the depths of **** 's Canyon (a trip she still talks about with wonder and awe).
In your supposed fight to change the industry, leave camping alone. Those of us who truly understand what the outdoors are all about would really hate to lose our ability to teach our kids how to survive and enjoy the outdoors. My granddaughter has the right to grow up with the outdoors firmly embedded in her soul, as something that has been a part of her since before she could remember. The outdoors is not made of canvas...it's made of dirt, weather, trees, rocks, animals. If you fear these things, then you do not understand. If you respect these things, you would have never written what you did.
I quit being a scout leader because their fear of liability has so overshadowed their activities that it is all meaningless anymore. I understand, but that doesn't make scouting camp, real camping.
Jena
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Posts: 999 | From: Paris, IL | Registered: Sep 2000 | Logged: 71.114.173.171 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 08:32 AM
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Jena, I have been "real camping" as you call it, but thats not "real camping". So don't assume I dont know survival camping.
I once spent a night in a small cave during a tornato with a survial blanket. (you know, the small reflective things.) I camped that way because I knew how, I camped that way because I had to, my shelter had been ripped appart by wind. These kids don't know how to camp Jena, they don't know any of it. I'm not saying that camping without a sleeping bag is wrong, or camping without a tent is wrong, im saying its not wise for people that dont know what their doing and its unsafe.
You Jena owe me an apology, you don't know how I treat the scouts under me, and you dont know how I camp, you don't know squat about me, you have not tried to learn. All you know is that pain is fun. Camping is not about hurting your self, nor is it about freezing, a good camper can keep this from happening to him and the people with him. Its not about pain Jena its about freedom.
DON'T YOU DARE SAY THAT I DONT KNOW THE OUT DOORS. Just because your some dis-honored Scout Leader that couldent hack it with the rules set does not mean you know how to camp and make it enjoyable, it just shows that you like to come ill prepared.
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Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
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Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
I now hate the moderator and will most likely get baned.
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On 2005-07-14 07:42:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Come on, they saw a chance to make a dime and they took it, (republicans do that, p.s. I am in no way saying that made what happened ok, its just a compusion for us republicans... you know... "what money? ::Grab:: :rofl: ) it would be interesting to see how it breaks down via political parties for kids sent there."
I think you are just wrong here. Most of the political support today comes from the reagan/bushites and Dubyah is the initiator of the entire "faith Based" federal program where tax money is funnelled to these gulags.
The republican party in Florida is so far entrenched in the industry it is sickening, and most of the christian and mormon gulags are squarely right wing.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that the teen help industry is a problem of "liberals". It is a issue that crosses all political and religious boundaries in this country.
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Oh no, you misunderstand, I just want to see the break down, it is possable that the rightwingers make it happen while the left wingers send their kids... I just wanna see the stats thats all, its no one parties fault.
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You could make a thread asking people who were sent to forced treatment what the politcal leanings of their parents were.
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On 2005-07-14 06:19:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Something I note as I look around their forum. The large majority of people there are from very high paying jobs, and most are from bastions of liberalism. Like the west coast, new england and such. could their be a connection to sending kids off and the parents political views? hmm?"
I think you watch too much O'Reilly and Scarborough.
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On 2005-07-14 07:42:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Come on, they saw a chance to make a dime and they took it, (republicans do that, p.s. I am in no way saying that made what happened ok, its just a compusion for us republicans... you know... "what money? ::Grab:: :rofl: ) it would be interesting to see how it breaks down via political parties for kids sent there."
HUH? This statement is so dumb I don't want to respond, but I will anyways. Are you actually suggesting the 'idea' of programs is something that comes from the liberal wing of the democratic political establishment? Further more, you suggest republicans just come in for the money once the ideology was set, because its 'a compulsion for us republicans' to make money? This is absolutely absurd. Politically leanings have nothing to do with any of this. I don't think you could have a more warped sense of reality if you were high on LSD. I would start questioning your own political beliefs, the way you can stereotype tens of millions of people together so easily is a bit frightening.
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Oh my god, ask to see some stats and suddenly every one has a heart attack. If you will notice most of it was a joke, you will see the little rolf smiliy... I'm a rush ditto head, its a joke! come on! im as republican as it gets. I was joking about my self, its called self depreshation.
I was suggesting they may be a trend in political views and enrollment numbder, I would like to see stats, I am not suguesting anything without seeing the stats, grow up and stop panicing so easy.
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On 2005-07-14 10:57:00, OverLordd wrote:
I'm a rush ditto head,
Well , that explains a lot right there. All you types think liberals are responsible for everything negative in the world.
Due yourself and the world a favor....smash your radio with a sledge hammer and start developing a political agenda based in reality.
The militant right wing in this country has been able to accomplish villifying a word thats meaning should be something positive...kind of like a brave new world type redefinition in order to control the thinking of the masses. It apparantly is working on you.
liberal, according to the american heritage dictionary:
ib·er·al
PRONUNCIATION: lbr-l, lbrl
ADJECTIVE: 1a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism. d.
BTW, the founder of Straight Inc is a member of the Bush Administration. Jeb Bush is on the board of directors of Safe, Inc. Bobbie Dupont is a republican.
I could go on and on.
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Look, having fucked up kids, or fucked up parents, is not a thing either party has a monopoly on.
The key to who these parents are is not their political leanings, it's their gullibility, desperation, and vulnerability to being conned.
The key to who the owners and managers are is not their political ideology. I think it's clear by now that they ape the dominant ideology of the local political establishment as protective coloration for their con.
Look at ASR---it's a liberal poster-child school. Then you have Bethel in Missouri and all the WWASPS stuff.
The Democrats and Republicans are partners in crime in the excesses of the "War on Drugs."
This debate is meaningless political bashing of the "other." The problem spans the political spectrum. Proportion is irrelevant. Both parties also have substantial reason, if they get the word, to crack down on this industry. No sane politician or voter is *for* child abuse.
In the context of this issue, political bashing is a waste of time and energy and needlessly alienates potential fellow-travellers. If we want reform, we have to be bi-partisan and let the animosity go.
Timoclea
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CCA is run by hardline republicans. Speaking too much of liberal philisophy got a number of staff fired or pushed out.
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Right you are Timoclea!
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Disclaimer: It's my personal opinion that the programs are cons, some worse than others, based on the number of parents and former teen attendees I have heard claim that this or that program was materially misrepresented to their families. It's my personal opinion that all the behavior mod programs are a lot alike and share features I believe to be harmful to children.
Timoclea
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Oh My Fucking God PEOPLE!!!
I really would like to see the stats, but the other stuff was a joke! poking at both sides... god all mighty... calm down!
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On 2005-07-14 11:54:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Oh My Fucking God PEOPLE!!!
I really would like to see the stats, but the other stuff was a joke! poking at both sides... god all mighty... calm down!"
There are no stats, don't you get it? What program asks your political party on the application, and even if one did for same strange reason, why would they release that info to the public?
So, why did I 'panic' at your post? Because you claim to represent and advocate for program victims, at least it seems like that in your posts, but in reality you show to have very little knowledge about the subject. Why would I want someone speaking for me that has no idea what they are talking about? That is why I take offense to your post. I'm not sure what your motives are, it seems like you enjoy arguing and fighting. But in doing so, you are spreading a lot of information that is incorrect. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.
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Anon, dude... calm down... I'm 17, I make verbal mistakes. If you don't want me arguing for you, then do it your self. ::shrugs:: alot of incorrect information? I made one wrong statement about a guess that I thought would be interesting tgo read. God...
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My parents voted Democrat. They put me in Straight.
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On 2005-07-14 13:21:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Anon, dude... calm down... I'm 17, I make verbal mistakes. If you don't want me arguing for you, then do it your self. ::shrugs:: alot of incorrect information? I made one wrong statement about a guess that I thought would be interesting tgo read. God..."
I get that you were kidding. :smile:
I was mostly talking to/about the people who weren't.
T.
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KK thanks.
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On 2005-07-14 06:19:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Something I note as I look around their forum. The large majority of people there are from very high paying jobs, and most are from bastions of liberalism. Like the west coast, new england and such. could their be a connection to sending kids off and the parents political views? hmm?"
See overlord, you were not kidding here. This was a sweeping indictement of all "liberals" kind of blaming them for the phenomena of parents sending kids off to these hell holes.
I was sent off 32 years ago by a staunch republican father. But this doesn't really matter, what matters to me is pointing out the fallicy of the times where people align themselves with demogogs like Rush and indict everyone for all the evils in the world that doesn't adopt these extreme right wing positions It is dangerous thinking and you should ponder on this attitude for a while.
Meanwhile, back here at fornits, we all...Republican, democrat, atheist, Christian, Jew Mormon, are united to spread the word about the teen help industry.
I think we have severly lashed this topic into submission. I just want you to understand this point.
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No, I waent kidding there, but I said I wondered!!! WONDERED!!! I saw a trend and I considered if it had anything TO DO WITH IT. If you don't consider things like that, things you dont think you have to consider, then you could miss something!! It wasent a sweeping intement of any one, if I wanted to sweepingly indite any one I would say that their all evil or something, guess what! I dident say that.
I enjoy my ditoism and I enjoy rush limbaugh, what I have is standards and believes that will not be changed. My standards and belifs brought me here, and they will being me on through my life.
Indeed, its lashed to death and rotting now.
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Overlordd: thinking about something.
Everyone else: lashing out instead of considering the question.
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On 2005-07-14 06:19:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Something I note as I look around their forum. The large majority of people there are from very high paying jobs, and most are from bastions of liberalism. Like the west coast, new england and such. could their be a connection to sending kids off and the parents political views? hmm?"
Who posts how much money they make, anyways. It's obvious they have enough money to spend thousands of dollars a month on their teen. From the 'bastions of liberalism'? LOL, get real man. Where do you even come up with something like that.
Take a look at where ALL of these facilities are located. NONE of them are in your so called liberal haven of the west coast and east coast, they all fall in the middle of bush country.
Research what politicians program officials are giving money to. Research how donating money to a few republican senators can put child-abuse legisltation on hold. Do some RESEARCH and then get back to me. This is hardly a political issue, but if you'd like to make it one, I'd say this is much more a conservative game than the other way around.
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I meant congressman and legislators not senators. Oops!
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::sighs and just drops it, not really caring any more::
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Of course you don't. If you researched you'd realize what a stupid comment you made. You'd realize that the political party you believe so wholeheartedly in is as corrupt as any other.
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On 2005-07-15 09:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Of course you don't. If you researched you'd realize what a stupid comment you made. You'd realize that the political party you believe so wholeheartedly in is as corrupt as any other. "
No shit! All politicians are corrupt, all of them are looking for hand outs, and they all tend to serve the interests of those who sponser them.
Overlord's comment was not stupid, it was right on the money, and so are your own observations....In essense, the liberals are paying for the programs that conservatives are running...what's my point? I don't have one, other than WE ARE ALL TO BLAME (as a society)for the proliferation of these bullshit behavior modification money scams.
Here's an idea, instead of labeling each other as democrats, republicans, communists, or whatever, how about we just acknowledge that all of us have a genuine concern for the well being of our children (why else would we be here)...
and then continue on from there. I believe this would facilitate far more productive discussions than finger pointing and political bickering.
Just an idea.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-07-15 09:34 ]
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Anti-
Could it be that maybe your friend from here is becoming educated in this area at least to know that their are two sides!
I doubt Lon is somehow thinking you are right - reality check here! I do firmly believe though that Struggling Teens are at one end of the spectrum and you all are at the other and somewhere in the middle their has to be some commonality.
That would be the reasonable explanation..
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Well, I don't know how you come to think of "we" here at fornits as bing at any one end of anything. Some of the regulars around here are actually referal agents and/or dedicated program parents. All comers are welcome and every concievable side of any issue seems pretty well represented.
But I do notice that Lon's site is allowing at least some dissent from the hard-line pro-program position. And I wonder why, that's all.
As to the question of political leaning, I think there's a flavor for just about anyone. Like to think of yourself as liberal and your child as disabled? There's Elan and Provo Canyon and a whole range of other programs that will gladly take your money and torture your kid using gooshy newagey pathology language. Rather think of yourself as a conservative and your kid as rebellious misbehavers? Fine! There's a whole line of programs who will happily take your money and call it toughlove and discipline.
This is where both sides come around and meet in the middle. Either way, we're talking about people who can't quite concieve of the profound responsibility inherent in bringing a child into this world. When they get flustered and feel they're in over their heads, they go looking for some higher authority or experts or specialists to do it for them. They're sitting ducks.
Don't hate the media. Become the media
--Jello Biafra
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I know I gave them heck for over 2 years to be an open and honest place for folks to get appropriate, truthful, factual, information from all.
`a