Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: OverLordd on June 28, 2005, 04:38:00 PM
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Ok, Look after reading all this shit you guys went through in the 80's I really have got to know, how in the hell did you not snap?
I mean, if I went through half that stuff, I would get a knife, and start slitting peoples throats, apprently you were allowed in the kittchen by second level so it could'ent of been that hard, and when you were allowed home as well. I would fucking maul each and every person that ever did anything to me (including student/staff), I would tie down the staff and slit their wrists for them. I just dont get it. I would of fucking freaked and started killing people, a person with a knife against unarmed people can go along away before he get draged down to the ground. You guys were alot stronger than me. so I ask you, how in the hell did you not snap?
Or maybe the kitchen thing was seed, I dont know, I get it mixed up[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-28 14:00 ]
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Brainwashing kicked in to the point of me believing I deserved to be there because I was a rotten person. Plus I lived 2 hours away from where I was placed. I ran away twice and was fooled into coming back. I was in some strange suburb I had never been to before. I didn't know where to turn. I could not even remember my long time friends phone numbers or last names to even call information for the number. All I could remember was my mom's number.Then there was the whole thing of making friends there and the thought of me never seeing them again was too unsettling to leave when I finally made it to the outside world for school.
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Overlordd -- Some people there did attempt this sort of thing. If I had time and more of a yen to, I'd give some more details.
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Yeah, it happened occasionally. But most of the time, people are just not that agressive. You think you're ready to tear somebody up. You may even fantasize about terrible things happening to your tormentors. But, when it comes down to it, most people will just take it for as long as they have to rather than engage in a hopeless fight.
That's how the brainwashing sets in. After awhile of going along, playing the part, you begin to believe it.What is a committee? A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.
-- Richard Harkness, The New York Times, 1960
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i did resort to violence, more times than i can count or care to remember. i did everything i could to resist their invasion of my mind. One time, while i was on my first cop-out, i even did pull a knife on some 7-steppers/staff that were tryin' to kidnap me to take me back to the program. i threatened to slit the one muther fuckers throat, but i couldn't press the blade into him. i didn't really want to hurt anyone. i just wanted my autonomy back. i just wanted to walk free with my own thoughts again.
i engaged 5th phasers in fist fights during group. At other times i tried civil disobedience, like refusing to motivate. i sat with my hand down for like a month or something. Another time after returnin' from my 3rd cop-out(i was gone for a month and livin' like a hunted animal) i misbehaved hardcore for at least a month. i was put on "consequences", which means that i was not allowed any condiments like catsup or sugar, the only thing i was allowed to drink was water. i had to ask for everything i needed by beginning my request with the words: "by the courtesy of your humble host-home, may i please"... If for example i needed to brush my teeth i would have to ask to pick up my toothbrush like this: "By the courtesy of your humble host-home may i please pick up my toothbrush" Straight was doing there best to humiliate and degrade me. Other consequences included not being able to look into a mirror, military showers; 30 seconds with the water on, 30 seconds to soap up and 30 seconds to rinse, the list of consequences goes on and on but it's too humiliating for me to even get into on this forum.
i was strip searched every night(not cavity searched) and i was put on sleep deprivation which means i was forced to sit straight up in a hard wooden chair in my underwear until like about 3 a.m. then i would finally be allowed to sleep until 6 a.m. The oldcomers would take shifts stayin' up, being "aware of me". So on top of all the intensity of being in group all day long, sitting up straight in my chair and paying attention to whoever was talking, and being restrained ocasionally, i was only getting 3 hours of sleep per night. It was hell. i think that lasted for about a week or maybe 10 days. i don't think i ever felt more alone and foresaken in the world than when i was in straight on consequences, being strip searched nightly and kept awake for 21 hours out of each day.
i took off runnin' every chance i got. i even managed to cop-out off of first phase once. finaly the 4th time i copped out i stole a truck and was subsequently arrested and court ordered to complete the program by the state of VA. i was finally intimidated enough that i surrendered my integrity. i was finally so lost, beaten, tired and lonesome that i gave myself up and i let the beast in.
i didn't take it. Straight took me.
Fuck straight. Fuck all authority.
"Babylon system is the vampire, suckin' the blood of the sufferahs" - Bob Marley and the Wailers.
"It is not those who can inflict the most but those who can suffer the most who will conquer"
-Terence MacSwiney,(1879-1920), Lord mayor of Cork, who died in Brixton jail, after a 73 day hunger strike, protesting the English occupation of Ireland
PEACE. :skull: :skull: :skull:
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Oh my...my first day I thought all day long about how I was going to break out that night. I knew I could do it, I didn't really care what happened, I was getting out. And we were staying in the city so I figured I could hide well. Even though it was about 30 degrees my first night and iced over. I didn't care. Well, I guess I was so upset from the whole day of crying and wanting to kill my mom and plotting my escape, that I fell asleep the instant my head hit the pillow. I think I fell asleep before we even got keyed in. Actually that happened to me pretty much every night I can remember. I don't remember ever being awake past pretty much the moment I layed down. It was too exhausting. And the fighting thing...well, you could fight but what for? You'd be tackled, sat on, and then screamed at for at least a week or longer, if not put in isolation for a day. And then some people would do that, and then resort to carving in their arms as the only way to rebel again, writing things in their blood on the back of the chairs in front of them. Flicking blood around and just generally being an ass and starting fights. I was already exhausted...how could I do that? Plus you couldn't do shit, you couldn't even let your arms relax a little without 5 girls on your shit telling you to straighten them and starting to straighten them for you. Just doing that would have ended up in being sat on for an hour. Looking down could have ended up in being sat on for an hour. It was easier to just look up, straighten my arms...and sit there.
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I was 12 years old (perhaps 13) and endured a year of Straight..
I was a sociable kid before...no drug use ...smoked a little weed and drank parents beer here and there..
After straight my self esteem was destroyed and I couldnt hardly go into public..
Took 13 years of heroin to forget..
But my self hate has dissolved ...but I tend to be very very aggressive with people now.
I enjoy hurting people and trust very few people..
When I feel even a hint of disrespect from anyone I bite hard.
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On 2005-06-28 13:38:00, OverLordd wrote:
I mean, if I went through half that stuff, I would get a knife, and start slitting peoples throats, apprently you were allowed in the kittchen by second level so it could'ent of been that hard, and when you were allowed home as well. I would fucking maul each and every person that ever did anything to me (including student/staff), I would tie down the staff and slit their wrists for them. I just dont get it. I would of fucking freaked and started killing people, a person with a knife against unarmed people can go along away before he get draged down to the ground. You guys were alot stronger than me. so I ask you, how in the hell did you not snap?>[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-28 14:00 ]"
we had sporkes. I guess you could have cut someone with a plastic sporke, but I doubt you could have slit anyone's throat.
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we had sporkes. I guess you could have cut someone with a plastic sporke, but I doubt you could have slit anyone's throat.
Hehe, you would be surprised, I was taught how to kill some one with one hand in Boy Scouts... but maybe that was just my troop...
Took 13 years of heroin to forget..
Are you still addictied? You will have to forgive my ignorance, the most education I got about drugs was what I pick up here and there and the "Dont do it." bit, but does not heroin fuck with you chemically and make it so your body has to have it to live. Correct me if im wrong please.
And the fighting thing...well, you could fight but what for?
Dude, you fight because you still can, you fight because you have to, you fight because they (they being whoever you happen to hate at the time, not just stright but this can be applyed else where) are wrong, and you have to fight what is wrong, its the american fucking way!!!!
Thats enough from me, please continue.
Oh, one thing I wanna ask, who of you will go to the mat for what you believe, I mean really fucking go to the mat, fight,bleed,die, and suffer for what you hold true and right. And who of you told these people that they were wrong, on anything, the simple things, hell even if it was the fucking color of the sky. Once I got the shit kicked out of me because I refused to call the sky red (long story, it was the princple more than the fact)
[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-28 20:09 ]
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On 2005-06-28 20:06:00, OverLordd wrote:
"we had sporkes. I guess you could have cut someone with a plastic sporke, but I doubt you could have slit anyone's throat.
Hehe, you would be surprised, I was taught how to kill some one with one hand in Boy Scouts... but maybe that was just my troop...
Took 13 years of heroin to forget..
Are you still addictied? You will have to forgive my ignorance, the most education I got about drugs was what I pick up here and there and the "Dont do it." bit, but does not heroin fuck with you chemically and make it so your body has to have it to live. Correct me if im wrong please.
And the fighting thing...well, you could fight but what for?
Dude, you fight because you still can, you fight because you have to, you fight because they (they being whoever you happen to hate at the time, not just stright but this can be applyed else where) are wrong, and you have to fight what is wrong, its the american fucking way!!!!
Thats enough from me, please continue.
Oh, one thing I wanna ask, who of you will go to the mat for what you believe, I mean really fucking go to the mat, fight,bleed,die, and suffer for what you hold true and right. And who of you told these people that they were wrong, on anything, the simple things, hell even if it was the fucking color of the sky. Once I got the shit kicked out of me because I refused to call the sky red (long story, it was the princple more than the fact)
[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-28 20:09 ]"
Of course I spoke up while in my program. It didn't help. Kicked chairs, threw chairs, told the audience of brainwashed parents that the place was a concentration camp and we were all being brainwashed. If anything it at least gave some temporary shock value to see someone that was near the completion of her program to lose it and give up.
After my episode I was set back and still had to stay in the program. It felt pretty hopeless at that point. Was doped up on psych meds. This is the period where I did start having fantasies of harming people there.
It's easy to say fight and do this or that, but that place was very powerful in breaking people's spirits and every single one of us was sleep deprived. They had a way of making me feel I deserved to be there as much as I hated it.
Hell where is a 15 year old chick going to go when there is no one out there to help. I wasn't willing to be a prostitute on the streets and I wasn't old enough to be on my own.
Yes, I would fight tooth and nail to death for something I believed in. More specifically I would not hesitate to harm anyone that tried to harm my children.
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I remember fighting. I fought and was restrained and i had a person on both legs, both arms and my head. I dont mean holding my arms and leggs, I mean sitting on them for hours. I did fight! you had to be good to get to second phase and that was after a month or 2 of being good and looking honest once you get there u think, do i run away and have nowhere to live? or do i try and finish so i can go home? If you want to fight people that brainwash you, fighting has to be done in your head. The screaming and kicking and fighting did no good. When I misbehaved i was looked at as a freak! I was an object to be discarded. I was a nobody. It was in your brain you had to fight. I tried to relieve my pain and confusion in my head by using my nails that they cut so short they had bleed. I would still use then to scrape the skin off my arms and blood would drip down my arms and I would use that blood to draw a picture on the back of a blue chair. I have the scars. I have cut my wrists. I have been in oxygen chambers to get the carbon monoxide out of my blood. People have killed there parents after getting out. So you would have freaked out? What the fuck do u think i have been doing for the last 20 years? I dont know how to fix me! You know many therapist and cousolors that know how to heal a brainwashed person? this church of scientology they talk about, i have one down the street. Sometimes i think i should check it out cause maybe I do belong with brainwashed people. I would know how to fit in. I am angry right now cause I dont have the answers for myself but you have to have been there to really understand how we fought. Every little body in that place learned how to fight there. they made us fight eachother. oh and u really think u would want to kill other kids with a spork u maybe able to get one down but try 100 kids, cause thats how many u have to get down to get to freedom.
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I am angry right now cause I dont have the answers for myself but you have to have been there to really understand how we fought. Every little body in that place learned how to fight there. they made us fight eachother. oh and u really think u would want to kill other kids with a spork u maybe able to get one down but try 100 kids, cause thats how many u have to get down to get to freedom.
You have been through hell and back again, and I respect that so so much. If I have not made that clear to you guys I appolgize, I respect all of you more than you know, for what you have been through and the fact that your still here to tell others about it. One thing I dont understand, you read about riots at some of the current schools, all the students fighting back, why was there nothing like this at straight? Or was there? And about the spork thing... I would fight with my frists before I used one of those, hehe, spork.. its a funny word if you just think about it... spork... hehe :rofl: So here is one question I guess it boils down to, why in the hell did other kids help keep you there, that is completely alien to me and I dont think I could understand.
P.S. Man stay away from the cults, you dont need them (to the anon)
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There are so many reasons. Partly, we weren't allowed to look at each other let alone talk until we made it to second phase. That could take months and months, until they thought you were really honest. By the time you got THERE, you were probably at least partly brainwashed already. But there was no way to conspire, because there was no talking.
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On 2005-06-29 05:37:00, OverLordd wrote:
"I am angry right now cause I dont have the answers for myself but you have to have been there to really understand how we fought. Every little body in that place learned how to fight there. they made us fight eachother. oh and u really think u would want to kill other kids with a spork u maybe able to get one down but try 100 kids, cause thats how many u have to get down to get to freedom.
You have been through hell and back again, and I respect that so so much. If I have not made that clear to you guys I appolgize, I respect all of you more than you know, for what you have been through and the fact that your still here to tell others about it. One thing I dont understand, you read about riots at some of the current schools, all the students fighting back, why was there nothing like this at straight? Or was there? And about the spork thing... I would fight with my frists before I used one of those, hehe, spork.. its a funny word if you just think about it... spork... hehe :rofl: So here is one question I guess it boils down to, why in the hell did other kids help keep you there, that is completely alien to me and I dont think I could understand.
P.S. Man stay away from the cults, you dont need them (to the anon)"
I went in at 14 and puny. I was 14 and was an intimidating 105 lbs. (maybe) and looking around at those guys and seeing how the much bigger fared on the concrete floor cured any violent urges I had. Those misbehaving kids got their asses kicked everyday, their food monitored, their sleep taken from them, and constantly watched. The way I saw it I had 4 years of hell or a year or 2 of playing the game as they wanted. Was it the "right" decision? That is an old debate here at this forum.
Remember Staff had years to perfect the divide and conquer rules and regulations we followed. So while it seems easy to think you would form strong bonds with someone and divise a plan together...it was close to impossible. First I changed homes everyday. We couldn't look at certain people or communicate freely. Nor did we have access to the mail or tv or radio. Oh and don't forget we were ^%$^&* exhausted. They kept us in the building sometimes over 12 hours...then we had homework (MI'S and newcomer crap to be done). So the clarity of thought wasn't there. Sleep deprivation will mess up your head. They knew that.
For the record I never believed what they told me. They never won that battle with me. I knew it was a bunch of lies. However to the outsider I was another "Successful Straightling". However I learned to trust nobody there.
Hope this serves as a little insight.
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A lot of kids in my program became violent in different ways; from biting a tongue in half and being taken to the emergency room, to beating someone up to get arrested and taken to jail. One kid even beat his mother to death with a baseball bat after going through the program a second time.
Most of us were just scared kids with no rights.I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.
--Clarence Darrow
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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One thing I dont understand, you read about riots at some of the current schools, all the students fighting back, why was there nothing like this at straight?
The misbehaviors did! I remember we would take one eyed glances at eachother, Do a thumbs up and motioned with your thumb, then the misbehavor would put up 3 fingers, I would get the attention of the girls mibehaviors and do the same. we would all watch the fingers and when the 3rd finger came up we all fucking jumped and ran. The entire group stood up well not the people that had been there only a day or so lol. All of us got restrained. Screaming and yelling went on for hours. This is when staff would decide its time to get rid of some of us. some people that wasnt misbehaving would try and run too. I was so drained from fighting. I gave it my all. I had no energy left in my 13 yr old body. I was very athletic before I got there. I was a very srtong 13 yr old. When your all battered and bruised and it hurts to move any limbs, and you still have people holding your hands on your knees and a person has there hand on the back of your chair with the knuckles sticking out so you dont lean back on the chair, you go ahead and lean on those knuckles cause your body is so drained and you dont have enven the energy to keep your back off them. I have passed out while having knuckles in my back and being so exhuasted from fighting. I fought till the end!!! Every ounce of energy I could find in me fought. I had long blonde hair, they cut it. They drained me, all of me. If a person was working the program, they could only look at the person that was talking. They would get stood up in group and confronted if they got cought looking at another person and it sometimes would lead to getting lowered a phase. Is it worth joining in the misbehaviors jump and run riot? Knowing that you are deciding to misbehave and now you will be stuck misbehaving and the old misbehaviors are the ones that come up missing for the next few days. Thinking they sent those misbehaviors to a worse place than Straight? Remember you are a kid and think well at least I know how Straight is, there could be worse places. When you work the program at least you have hope of someday going home.
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On 2005-06-29 09:20:00, 001010 wrote:
" kids with no rights.
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There's the whole problem, right there.
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. we would all watch the fingers and when the 3rd finger came up we all fucking jumped and ran.
that Ladies and gentlemen is what im talking about!!! Well good try...
You were very young, maybe im looking at this from the wrong spot, maybe I should be looking at it from the side of a young teen instead of the almost adult that I am.
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On 2005-06-29 12:10:00, OverLordd wrote:
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You were very young, maybe im looking at this from the wrong spot, maybe I should be looking at it from the side of a young teen instead of the almost adult that I am."
Keep in mind you are also benefiting with already having knowledge of these type of faciltiies. Most, if not all kids who go through these types of programs have no idea what they are in for. You are lied to, constantly, about everything. You are not sure enough to take violent action, shit man, it takes years afterwards to figure out what the fuck just happened. Afterwards it feels like a dream... you wonder, how could that have just happened? Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. If I knew about programs before I ended up in one, I would have done more to stay out. Once I figured out what was going on it was too late.
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Just like the grad said "divide & conquer". Even the people that misbehaved reported people. You could think you and someone very close and the next day come to group and the person reported you for supposed "wrongs" or "doubts".
Unless you were a newcomer w/ nothing to lose then yes it may have been possible to talk to the other newcomer at the host home when the oldcomer was in bed to plot running away or whatever. Usually, this didn't happen as people were always terrified and losing what little "privledge" they had.
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Funny story. The last time I split, the other three girls I went to school w/ split the same day. Two of them were together, the other two of us alone. None of us either confided in nor suspected the others. Shit, I'm surprised the two went together. I would never even have considered risking my split plans by confiding in anybody about it.
On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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"How in the hell did you guys take it?"
I'm going to be as succinct with you as I possibly can.
I'm really offended by your naivety which seems to be monumental.
An individual is sent to 'Straight' or any other intervention program that you wish to name.
You are one, and they are many. You may not wish to co-operate or allow them access to your mind, but they are prepared for that. Whatever you will think of doing by way of not co-operating, passive resistance or aggressive behaviour? They are prepared for, and have a response.
When you arrive at one of these places only two things are important. Your desire to not be changed, and their desire to change you.
This is not a one on one thing, where you may outlast the abilities of one person, you would have to outlast the abilities of an unknown amount of people. You are one, they are legion. Get it?
They want to break you, and change you. It's why they are their, and the more you fight, the more they'll step up their actions to break you. You think you can fight and outwit them because you truly can't imagine what they can do or their power.
Not that I'm suggesting anyone should just give in, or not try, but you have to understand what it means to be alone surrounded by people who's very motivating force in life is to force you to do as they wish, not as you wish.
Do yourself a favour Overlord. Stop commenting on your 'I'd do this crap' because that's all it is. Everyone here has told you some of the horrors that go on and yet you still continue with your glib comments. You're not adding anything, and in many ways detracting from what others have gone through and survived.
Anonymous.
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Ok anon, I'm going to assume your new around here because its the first time I have seen your writeing style, but time to share somthing here.
I am ignorant, I dont know what they went through, hell I'm 17 I was just born in 1987 and guess what, I want to learn and understand. I'm sorry if I offened you, but I ask this question so I could understand and get into their heads to see what was going on and what was happening. Why are you offended? No one else seems offended in anyway at a child trying to learn something, I believe I am showing respect by trying to understand what they went through.
You are one, they are legion. Get it?
Its here where you start bothering me anon, you seem to think that one person can do nothing, you seem to believe that independance and fighting for what you want and what you believe are unimportant. You seemed very fatalistic in all your comments, and I cannot stand that, there is always hope, there is always a light, so what if their trainned, so what if their preped, you can still do somthing about it.
Do yourself a favour Overlord. Stop commenting on your 'I'd do this crap' because that's all it is. Everyone here has told you some of the horrors that go on and yet you still continue with your glib comments. You're not adding anything, and in many ways detracting from what others have gone through and survived.
This is the most condisending, disrespectful comment I have had shot at me in a long time. Guess what, I fight for what I believe in, if I say I'm going to do something, I am going to do it. I am trying to understand why what happened happened from their point of view and thats very hard when you cant even remember the 80's. I dont believe I have detracted a single thing from this conversation because I started the convsation, half of the things said here, I have seen no where else on the board, and I am proud that I have helped them come to light.
You anon, need to stop being disrespectful to some one trying to learn something.
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:roll:
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Nicely put, Anonymous. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.
-- Patrick Henry
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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Great, thanks for the support...
Hehe :razz:
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Overlordd, you are golden. I love that you want to understand, that you hold to your idealism -- which makes it hard for you to understand the extreme nature of the institution of Straight, but that's okay. Ideals die hard, and they should. I love that you are here because you really give a damn, the injustice of these institutions hits you hard, and you were never even in a program.
It is frustrating that you want to tell us there was hope if we only fought back. Some of us were very quickly crushed when we went in. Holding onto ideals like "fighting back" gets in the way of understanding individual reactions to the very extreme environment. There are a very few who fought and maintained the fight the entire time they were there. Sure that is admirable, but those are stories of individuals, and you will never understand these places if you look at that as the ideal. There is a reason that the combined and powerful tactics at Straight work. I would suggest that some of the answers might be found in researching brainwashing techniques. If I find the link I am thinking of I will post it later. Carry on. You hit nerves with people and I know that you do not mean to. I am guessing you don't want to give up some idealistic belief you have. You keep saying "but you could have...", and we keep explaining how it broke even the most idealistic among us.
Sincerely
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Overlordd, you are golden. I love that you want to understand, that you hold to your idealism -- which makes it hard for you to understand the extreme nature of the institution of Straight, but that's okay. Ideals die hard, and they should. I love that you are here because you really give a damn, the injustice of these institutions hits you hard, and you were never even in a program.
It is frustrating that you want to tell us there was hope if we only fought back. Some of us were very quickly crushed when we went in. Holding onto ideals like "fighting back" gets in the way of understanding individual reactions to the very extreme environment. There are a very few who fought and maintained the fight the entire time they were there. Sure that is admirable, but those are stories of individuals, and you will never understand these places if you look at that as the ideal. There is a reason that the combined and powerful tactics at Straight work. I would suggest that some of the answers might be found in researching brainwashing techniques. If I find the link I am thinking of I will post it later. Carry on. You hit nerves with people and I know that you do not mean to. I am guessing you don't want to give up some idealistic belief you have. You keep saying "but you could have...", and we keep explaining how it broke even the most idealistic among us.
Sincerely
I understand now, I'm so sorry if I came off on the wrong side of things on this guys, I did not mean to. I was looking at it the wrong way I see now. My idealism was blinding me, I supose, to the reality of the situation, and while not hopless, was highly difficult to resist for the time one was enrolled there. Again, im sorry, I understand now.
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Its here where you start bothering me anon, you seem to think that one person can do nothing, you seem to believe that independance and fighting for what you want and what you believe are unimportant. You seemed very fatalistic in all your comments, and I cannot stand that, there is always hope, there is always a light, so what if their trainned, so what if their preped, you can still do somthing about it.
Why do you ask a question, and then go about telling people what they should have done. This makes no sense. I would continue to bash you, but I noticed you are only 17. Things are making more sense now. :roll:
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On 2005-06-30 06:10:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Great, thanks for the support...
Hehe :razz: "
Overlordd people can be defensive about this subject b/c each one of us has been over the "what ifs" in our heads a million times. Straight and the humiliation is an open sore for some people here. Everyone of us wishes we would have done something differently there.
Oh, one person really didn't make much difference at Straight. Even the misbehavers were a temporary nuisance to the "Straight" machine. Their disturbances quickly slammed to the floor. If they continued they were taken to small 10x10 rooms. Or that is my opinion.
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Why do you ask a question, and then go about telling people what they should have done. This makes no sense. I would continue to bash you, but I noticed you are only 17. Things are making more sense now.
I dont believe I told people what should of been done, im sorry if I came off this way, I ment to ask, why dident this happen, or why did this happen. Again, im sorry that I came off wrong, I also said things I would do in a given situation, but I see that was wrong now, because I don't know the full extent of the situation.
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You're doing fine, Overlordd. Keep it up. :tup:
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On 2005-06-30 07:54:00, The Graduate wrote:
Oh, one person really didn't make much difference at Straight. Even the misbehavers were a temporary nuisance to the "Straight" machine. Their disturbances quickly slammed to the floor. If they continued they were taken to small 10x10 rooms. Or that is my opinion.
I have a very slightly differing opinion. And this may really explain a lot to you, OverLord.
I don't think misbehavers were a temporary nuisance to the program. I think they were an absolutely necessary part of the mindfuck.
Now, bear in mind that the term "misbehaver" was used to describe everything from willful refusal to go along (as in totally passive resistance) to attempts to leave or fight all the way to any sort of compulsive or involuntary manifestation of mental breakdown.
If a kid was carving in their skin or repeatedly running head first into the wall, trying for a stud, staff would focus the rap on them and how their feeble, laughable attempts to disrupt the rap would only lead them to death, insanity or the insane assylum. Then a hearty encouragement to keep the pressure on them (cuz we luv them!) till they do something even more radical, thereby making an excuse to really rough them up.
It had a profound effect on the rest of us. I can only imagine what it was like for someone who, prior to entry into that twilight zone, never imagined such things could happen or that human beings could behave this way. Most of the ppl in Sarasota never actively misbehaved (though I guess just about everybody had a day or three of passivity) but we all saw what happened. We all had to wrestle w/ it internally. We all had to make like a good little straightling and join in the condemnation or get a dose of the same. And we all have to live w/ that.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein
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Ginger that is an amazing post.
I think you said it already, but to put it another way, they severely abused misbehavers to let the rest of us know what the stakes were. Comply or this is you.
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Yes... The "misbehavior" was the "example" of what would happen if you didn?t comply.
Those small 10x10 rooms had no ceilings in them so group could hear the slams, the scuffles, the cries, the screams, and then silence, with the occasional scratching. And the misbehavior could hear group, as they sat in there alone and isolated. Group doesn't want to be him, but just being able to hear them makes him psychologically desire to be a part of "the group."
Everything had a purpose. There was a method to every madness, and with madness, the rules change to suit itself routinely.
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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I beat my oldcomer with a sack lunch :lol:
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I smoked dope with Miller Newton after Open Meetings. He had pretty good weed back then, but his coke always sucked. Ruthie, on the other hand, had some 98% pure Peruvian that kicked ass----helped me motivate.
Did I ever tell you guys about the time Miller Newton touched my junk?
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On 2005-06-30 12:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
Did I ever tell you guys about the time Miller Newton touched my junk?"
No, you haven't. Do tell, please.
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On 2005-06-30 12:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-30 12:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
Did I ever tell you guys about the time Miller Newton touched my junk?"
No, you haven't. Do tell, please."
Don't mind if I do.....
Miller Newton touched my junk liberally. He strapped me in to his Straightmobile and he
couldnt keep his offensive hands off of me. He was performing many red flag touches. I
couldnt believe what the fuck was going on. I told Miller Newton the city would not approve
of a millionaire touching an underage kid for free. Can you believe it? Miller Newton did all this. He picked me off the street, strapped my arms and legs down in the Straightmobile's passenger seat, and just wouldn't stop fondling my cock'n'balls.
They definately were red flag touches. The goddamn referee he had in the back seat kept on
raising up this red flag every time he touched my junk but did "Dr." Newton care? NO WAY! He
just kept on doing it. I couldn't believe what the fuck was going on, indeed. I pleaded with
Miller Newton but to no avail. I told him the city would not approve of such a wealthy man
touching an underage kid like me (at the time I was 13) without at least compensating me for
the trauma and the use of my body as his own personal plaything.
This got to him, worrying about his image. he continued to fondle me, all the while ignoring
the referee's red flags. Then he drove the Straightmobile to my house and ejected the seat I was in! It was amazing. But surprisingly, after I woke up the next morning, my bank account had $150k in it!!! Can you believe it?????????????????????????
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On 2005-06-30 12:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-30 12:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
Did I ever tell you guys about the time Miller Newton touched my junk?"
No, you haven't. Do tell, please."
Gather 'round, children.
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Overlordd,
you are cool with me. i think it's great that you want to understand because it is hard to fight something if you don't know what it is. Know your enemy 'n' all. You have made it clear that no disrespect is intended. i only wish there were more people like you. Then we might have a chance at permanently closing these mind-fuck brainwash institutions. keep looking and you will see. PEACE.
:smokin:
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Oh yeah, I second that. In case it doesn't go w/o saying.
Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,
Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)
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::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce::
Thanks guys that makes me feel damn good.
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Overlord, have you seen Bingo? It gives a small glimpse of the mind fuck.
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Well Overlord, you at least had the sense to apologise. That of course is right after you become defensive when I reply to you and your continual 'glib' comments.
Here's a hint from me to thee. Being defensive shows that you were wrong, and knew it. It also shows that you could not stand being wrong. Such flaws are routinely exploited by those who seek to change your mind and your viewpoints.
I'll tell you how people survived their 'rpograms' and 'intervention' centers. they employed the oldest, wisest, strategy that there is. They became like the bamboo leaves and bent when the strom raged around them.
For those that stood straight and defiant, invariably they were broken, sometimes never to be the same. For those that bent, and harboured their own feelings and emotions deep within, the storm raged then passed, and they survived.
It's how every survivor you ever meet did it. And until you let go of your defiance and naivety, and forget about attack, and posturing, to better understand the world around you...
You'll never understand anything at all.
This is just the opinion of one survivor of life, to a defiant youth. You may completely disagree.
One stormy day, you'll think back on this.
Anonymous.
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:evil: I was not defencive as much as I was upset at you for being so damned condescending, then I was conserned that others would agree with you. So I apologised because I dont want to upset people that I have grown to consider friends. But you anon, have upset me with your very condescending way of speaking. Being defensive does not show your wrong, being defensive shows how much you care about a subject when it is under attack. Now stop being so condescending . :evil:
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Interesting.
Perhaps you don't read many dictionaries. There are many definitions to the term and word 'defensive' but the one I meant was regarding your defensive posture of your own comments. Not of your 'ideals' or anything else.
As I mentioned, I was not condoning anyone's actions or undermining anyone's abilities. I mentioned those who felt the need to break others wills, and those who were victimised by such people.
I then spoke of your continuing glib comments, and utter naivety and lack of understanding and compassion in the face of others painful experiences. Something you continue to exhibit with a cheerful smile, and angry remark.
The real irony of course, is you telling me, I'm condescending. One thing remains true through all of this.
You don't have a clue.
I urge you to find one, before reaching for your keyboard.
Anonymous.
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Fine, moving on.
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On 2005-06-30 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"For those that bent, and harboured their own feelings and emotions deep within, the storm raged then passed, and they survived."
What if you can't find what you hid.
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What if you can't find what you hid.
"
Good question... i've been looking for a while too.
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On 2005-07-01 02:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-30 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"For those that bent, and harboured their own feelings and emotions deep within, the storm raged then passed, and they survived."
What if you can't find what you hid.
"
It's there, but learning to recognize it again is a difficult road. Identity was the key thing they stole from program survivors. Re-identifying means changing habits that you learned in order to survive at that time. Changing habits takes time and practice. Some may never find what they buried, unfortunately, but there is always hope. In the end it comes down to a personal choice one has to make. I know that sounds cliché, but it?s true.
Question with boldness even the existance of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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On 2005-06-30 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
Being defensive shows that you were wrong,
Nope! This is just another little sticky bit of Program dogma that some people carry for life. People act defensively when they feel attacked and yet still want to interact. "Closing off" is also not a crime. It simply means you no longer wish to interact, for whatever reason.
Oh, and you don't have any special "Awareness", either. You've just been given the ability to make snap judgements based on subjective ques and to vest in them the faith of a crusader. It's not a gift, really!
If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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"Nope! This is just another little sticky bit of Program dogma that some people carry for life. "
Program Dogma? You think you know me? Au contraire, mon ami. You don't. Such a snap judgment, and such a hypocritical thing to say...
Still you know that. Don't you?
"People act defensively when they feel attacked and yet still want to interact."
I beg to differ. People act defensively when they feel that they have:
A: Been attacked. (This would be incorrect. Overlord was not attacked, he was criticised. If he regards criticism as 'attack' that speaks more negatively of his ego and motiviations than anything else. Feel free to comment further. You now detract from anything he was trying to say more than I was doing, but knock yourself out.)
B: Feel that anyone with a differing viewpoint to their own, is using their response as a form of personal vendetta. (Also incorrect, and a subtle change from attack or criticism, but a noteable one none the less.)
"Closing off" is also not a crime. It simply means you no longer wish to interact, for whatever reason.
True enough. If he wishes to do that, it would be a good thing. It shows he has nothing further to add, and perhaps he's actually listening for a change before commenting. Who said he was not allowed to do that? Are you now telling me of his motivations?
Oh, and you don't have any special "Awareness", either.
I'm sorry! You're judging me now are you? Feel the need to do so, do you? Why? Your ego is screaming out for redemption for Overlord, and yourself is it?
Let's be succinct here. Why that need to say that? I've never yet held my self in any high esteem, or tried to wave credentials or life story around, as to why my opinion is more valid than another. What I have stated is that no one's opinion here is more valid than another. I guess you were not listening. I wonder why?
It's all choice of course. You did not listen, because you did not want to. A shame.
You've just been given the ability to make snap judgements based on subjective ques and to vest in them the faith of a crusader. It's not a gift, really!
Au contraire once more. Having the ability to judge and invest in critical thinking, is an ability worth having. Still, that's hardly what I am doing is it? Or are you an expert on such matters?
As for crusader? I thought that was more Overlords territory. He seems able to solve all problems with a single keystroke... Are you jealous of that? Or jealous that I am able to refute many things people say? I can do that because I'm experienced in many ways of life, and can voice my thoughts.
You can do that too. It's not hard. Maybe you're just not trying. Or maybe I'm just having fun with you, it's all perspective is it not?
But no doubt, this is interpreted by you as a personal attack. Just like Overlord... Le temps dira.
Time will tell.
Anonymous.
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This would be incorrect. Overlord was not attacked, he was criticised. If he regards criticism as 'attack' that speaks more negatively of his ego and motiviations than anything else. Feel free to comment further. You now detract from anything he was trying to say more than I was doing, but knock yourself out
Your missing one. People also act definsively when they feel that they have been unjustly offended, you were being very condicending , so I considered this a offence to me, so I got defensive. Being defensive is not nessarally bad.
This is a very good example.
True enough. If he wishes to do that, it would be a good thing. It shows he has nothing further to add, and perhaps he's actually listening for a change before commenting. Who said he was not allowed to do that? Are you now telling me of his motivations?
Are you telling me you know mine? You speak as if I'm not a part of this coversation, this is a wonderful example of your condisending attitude.
You anon, are hiding your attacks behind well crafted speaches, and what you have to say is just a pretty "Fuck you".
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Your missing one. People also act definsively when they feel that they have been unjustly offended, you were being very condicending , so I considered this a offence to me, so I got defensive. Being defensive is not nessarally bad.
Defence is only require when someone has attacked you. As stated that did not occur, unless your idea of 'attack' requires redefining.
Yours apparently requires exactly that. Hence the 'defence' you think you need to throw up.
As for being offended. Offence was given by yourself, and your glib responses. Hence your many apologies. I have no need to reply to you for your offensive comments. You needed to apologise, and did.
This is a very good example.
True enough. If he wishes to do that, it would be a good thing. It shows he has nothing further to add, and perhaps he's actually listening for a change before commenting. Who said he was not allowed to do that? Are you now telling me of his motivations?
All said as someone else was speaking up for you, and apparently speaking about you, and their opinion.
Are you telling me you know mine?
No. Nor have I pretended to understand them, why should I? You ventured forth your opinion and I did mine. You were wrong. You apologised. Good for you.
Funny though, whilst apologising you still find time to be 'defensive' as if you have something to defend against. Would that that were true eh? then you too, could be a victim, and cry foul.
No such luck. You're not a victim. Just glib unaware, and uncompassionate.
You speak as if I'm not a part of this coversation, this is a wonderful example of your condisending attitude.
You stand corrected. Someone else reduced you to a topic not I. I simply replied to their commentary about you.
You anon, are hiding your attacks behind well crafted speaches, and what you have to say is just a pretty "Fuck you".
As always with you, you are unable to discuss. You reduce everything to a personal 'attack' and act like Don Quixote tilting at some imaginary giant, while all you do is simply rally at windmills, trying to look heroic.
Maybe Dulcinea will be along to save you from yourself.
Again.
Anonymous.
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Get a fuckin' room, you two. :lol:
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Get a fuckin' room, you two
If you're jealous, go form your own relationship.
Envy is so unseemly.
:smile:
Anonymous.
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:wstupid: :roll:
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This is an interesting topic even if it is a little touchy. Every survivor has probably heard that question at some point and heard the"Well I would have.." or "Why didn't you just.." by someone who wasn't there. It is just so incomprehensible unless you were there.
I'm glad you want to understand.
It is hard to imagine the powerlessness of being there. The brainwashing, being broken emotionally, physically, psychologically day after day. It seems like we should have been able to do SOMETHING. How could it happen to so many? How is it possible?
How did a few evil men convince an entire NATION that the solution to all their problems was the extermination of all Jewish people? And yet that's what happened in Nazi Germany.
How was the enslavement of an entire race deemed acceptable for hundreds of years? How did people fight for freedom while owning slaves? How about the crusades? Killing people for God. Apartheid? Stalin? Mussolini? Khmer Rouge? Communism?........ Republicans
Compared to those atrocities, breaking & brainwashing a few thousand powerless teenagers & their frightened parents is child's play.
When I went into the program I was 15 and weighed all of 98 lbs. I had never heard my parents use a single foul word. They rarely raised their voices. I'd been spanked once in my entire life.
Suddenly I was told that I would not see my parents again much less live with them until I worked the program. I would never see my friends again. Life as I knew it was over. I moved frequently. No security. No trust. No help.No relationships. I was surrounded my shrieking, angry people. Kids were punished for the tiniest infraction of the rules. Looking at the guys side, crying, not crying, not motivating. Kids carved on themselves with their fingernails, sporks whatever they could get. People tried to run, they were tackled and restrained. They jumped out of moving vehicles and were caught and punished. The police came & took a guy away in front of group. Handcuffed. Announced to us all that he was going to Raeffurt. One girl lost it and just freaked out. They took her to a mental hospital and made sure we all knew it.Punishment was random, swift and severe. The peanut butter diet, people exercised until they threw up or fainted, not allowed sleep, not allowed bathroom privileges until they were forced to go infront of the group, confronted for hours, isolated, humiliated.
Initially they said it would be two weeks. I looked around and thought Ok two weeks of playing along vs hopeless fighting? I can do it. I'll just play along. I can't describe the shock when they brought a girl to the back of the group who had run and was being started over after being there a YEAR.
Eventually I made it to 2nd phase and ran. Got convinced to go back. Ran again. This time we called the authorities. HRS. The calvary. They told me I could leave but my parents wouldn't let me come home. That I'd go to a shelter home. That it would be so much worse than Straight. What did I know? They were the authorities.
I stayed. I was punished. Hopeless. Powerless. And after 9 months, broken. I bought it.Believed it all. It was THE way to survive. The only one my brain could find.
Two months before my 18th birthday I started planning. I'd already graduated but knew I was being watched, Knew they would make me do it all again and they'd have to do it before I turned 18. I got in touch with my best friend. Hadn't spoken to her in 3 years-since the day of my intake. I took her to the building. Showed her the layout, the exit points, If I disappeared she would collect a group and they would physically liberate me. I phoned HRS. Again. But this time I talked to one person. Tried to make him understand what had happened and what would happen. I gave my friend the number for the ACLU and HRS. I put money and her number in the sole of my shoe in case I had to run.I made arrangements to live with a friend if necessary. I was in HIGHSCOOL. Four days before my 18th birthday it all went down. I let everybody know about all of my plans. That I would be there not one minute past my 18th. After 3 YEARS I was free.
But as the song goes, "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
It was 20 years before I knew how much damage I took and took WITH me even after I left. I had no point of reference. My idea of normal wasn't but how could I know? I had nothing to compare it too.After 3 years it was the only kind of living I knew.
They drove home our powerlessness every single day and with every opportunity. Time will wear you down. Make you hopeless. And eventually your mind will choose a way to survive. And most were pretty powerless over that choice too.
It was far more powerless and hopeless than you can probably imagine.Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]
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Excellent and insightful post, Whiterabbit.
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If you're jealous, go form your own relationship.
Envy is so unseemly.
ZZZZzzzZzZzzZzzzzzZZZzzz.......
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You guys were alot stronger than me. so I ask you, how in the hell did you not snap?
There is the assumption that some of us didn't snap?
Snapping (outwardly) was the easiest thing to do. Snapping and keeping the snap hidden was the difficult part. In the end all it achieved and proved was that I am capable of enduring a tremendious amount of unnessasry suffering.
I don't think it has anything to do with being "stronger" than you. There was a need to do what had to be done, whether to fight or to comply. Compliance or conformity as repulsive as it sounds was a means to an end. I don't think of compliance/conformity as cowardice. My conformity/compliance was questioned often and with tremendious intensity for hours and hours at a time..not unlike anyone who was there.
Even if there was no attempt at hidding anything, or even if there was nothing to hide...there was always the fear of being "found out"..you know, faking it, just complying to get thru the damn thing.
There are many different ways to snap. I think more of us snapped than did not...maybe not by physical violence or in any other outward way that could be observed and documented. But there was a "snap" to be sure. Wasn't that the intent in the first place? To break us?
Thats not to say there wasn't a price for compliance, that price was as I said earlier, endurance. Enduring absolute unnessasary suffering. If that is called strength...go figure. I call it stupid, a waste and a loss of my teenage years.
Not that I am bitter or anything ::puke::