Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 20, 2005, 02:38:00 PM
-
Petition link! please sign! ---
http://www.petitiononline.com/hr1738/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/hr1738/petition.html)
read the bill the petition refers to here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.1738.IH (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.1738.IH):
-
the little peons of this counrty can finally speak
-
Zug Zug?
In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
--Thomas Jefferson 1798
-
Thanks for the information - the comments are good. I signed the petition and hope it will make a difference.
-
Something Id like to point out is this is toothless. 50K civil fine as the only penalty?? COME ON!
Furthermore, this appears to be just a case of setting up a federal beaurocratsy and grants to keep kids safe and sound.. IN THE PROGRAMS.
The way its written, also indicates to me that it would have a hard time being used to actually DO ANYTHING about a bad program! 50K fine? CHUMP. CHANGE. As Ken Kay said it himself, its barely the cost of a G35 to get therapy.... one students tuition... pshaw.
Any step is a good step, but I want some god damn TEETH! Ive yet to see anything except licensing and possible license revoking (but how would they enforce that? another 50K fine? or remove the kids with sheriffs?) to actually force a program into compliance.
Theres also the problem of the way that the programs themselves operate make it so its hard for any hidden abuse (the most common kind) to come out. You cant offer a child immunity for saying they were abused - you cant even take them out of the program with reason to believe they wont be put back to make the complaint! Not even anonymity!
This is really appearing to be much ado the more I think about it, but I hope Im being a cynic! :???: From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert
-
Fifty grand per count might not be chump change - and it would certainly cut deeply into the prophet margins.If it is more profitable to treat the kids decently than to treat them badly, maybe there will be fewer abusive programs around, even if the industry remains huge.
I'm pretty happy with how it reads. It is a big step forward. Keep in mind - anything as restrictive as you would like, would have no chance of passing. I think this is reasonable and can and should pass with little debate. How can anyone stand up and argue that this industry needs no regulation and that the abuse that take place is acceptable? Handled correctly by the opposition, such a stance would be death to a political career.
-
This bill was drafted to gather support - if the penalties were too outrageous it wouldn't fly in the house. SAD TRUTH - this bill may not even make it to the floor. It really needs our support now - there's nothing better out there and no better advocate for this cause than George Miller. So I really feel strongly that we need to get behind this.
The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of
knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness.
--Thomas Jefferson
-
How long has this petition been in circulation? Does anyone know. Just currious because there aren't that many signatures yet- about 125 today
June 21.
-
Hi all,
the petition has been circulating since the wee hours of the morning on the 18th.
signatures/day"
6/18 5
6/19 41
6/20 42
6/21 52
6/22 6
i've worked hard at spreading the word, but I'm a student and work so it's hard. If anyone wants to help out and send petition out to child advocates or mental health sites, requesting they post on their site the link or send out an action alert perhaps we can galvanized more people...
kat
-
50 Grand per count might be worthwhile, granted they actually get enough counts to make it stick. The MILLIONS these places make as profit annually would make 50K be chump change, unless you multiplied it by a lot of charges.
Also, what would be done about the kids that are in a program and need some way to reach out for help? What about that? What about a kid whose going to level an accusation? Would he be kept in the program?
The utter control these places exert are going to make it a bitch to get any info out of the kid. We've all seen what happens when reporters go.
And, whats gonna happen if a license is revoked? How do they remove the kids by force?
I'm not tryign to shit on this, Im just asking how this would be ENFORCED. Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception."
Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger, 1916, Ch.9
-
166 this afternoon. Are any other sites promoting this?
-
Kat, seriously, you're spinning your wheels. I've decide that I'm not going to comment publicly on the content of the bill or the petition to pass it because I don't think I can do that and deal w/ the spammin issue w/ any credibility. So I picked one; the spamming.
You have probably alienated some ppl from you and from the legislation by posting the exact same message again and again in all forums. This also seperates interested parties from each other. One person responds to one thread, another to one of the many others, and so on. It makes it very difficult for a conversation to grow.
So, after the first two posts or so, the rest of that effort has been a waste of time, possibly counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish.
Instead, please talk about why you think this bill is such a good idea. Answer ppl's questions about it, etc.
Additionally, you should be looking for other relavent venues. If you're in school, you have regular access to all kinds of publications and social scenes related to the campus and student body. Check those out. We're not the only people in the world who would take an interest in this. You just have to find the hooks, join their conversations and show them why this issue is important to them.
That's my advice for the day. Tune in next time for more unasked for advice. :wink:I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone, I'm just here for the drugs.
--First Lady, Nancy Reagan at a Just Say No rally
-
Does anyone know how this bill is doing? I've heard it could die if it doesn't get more support.
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
Tacitus, Roman senator and historian (A.D. c.56- c.115)
-
200 sigs in a week. how long do you have?
-
231 today - oh well.....
-
Bump
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Mark Twain
-
Yes, if it does not get support and if letters are not written it will die. Seems people here really don't care, which is sad. It is not the only answer, but as Cherish Wisdom pointed out, and she does have wisdom, it is the best thing out there.
Right now we have no federal regulations, no protection for these kids, and I cannot understand anyone who would not support this bill. At the very least it would open the door to unannounced visits and other protection for the kids. They have none right now. Do you want it to stay that way? I don't. I want to help get this passed if I can. I hope others will join in because the way it stands, these poor kids are rotting in these places while we argue. It's disgusting.
We who support this bill know darn well it's not the all-mighty answer, but it's a start.
I personally am in contact with Congressman Miller's office and I know for a fact that if this bill is not set for hearing it will not make it to the floor. It has to make it's way to Chairman Hyde, and that hasn't happened yet. I called Hyde's office the other day. So until these gentlemen hear from us this thing is going no where. I strongly urge you to sign the petition and send your letters.
So please send your letters to:
Chairman John Boehner
Committee of Education in the Workplace
1011 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515
and to:
Chairman Henry Hyde
House International Committee
2170 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515
Let them know your personal experiences and why you feel this should pass.
I guess I think about the kids who are locked up in these places. I put myself in their shoes. If there is a chance that legislation would pass that would help protect me, if I were them, I would pray to God that the adults who are supposed to be out there to help me were doing all they could to make sure it had a fair chance. Face it, the chances of it passing are not great as it stands, why not help it along.
-
Most lawmakers are aware that every letter represents about 1000 people. This petition is good even though it's not overwhelming. It need not be. This is still a topic that most people are unaware of. It is getting some media attention. Most of the people on this site have been harmed in some way by this industry. George Miller has really done more to help the cause than any other lawmaker. He deserves our support in the form of petitions, letters and so forth. :tup:
The bible teaches that woman brought sin and death into the world, that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced. Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period of suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play the role of a dependent on man's bounty for all her material wants, and for all the information she might desire...Here is the Bible position of woman briefly summed up.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton
-
No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
P. J. O'Rourke
-
Stop trying to blast everything I applaud the person pushing this for their efforts, jeez is it perfect no, but it is a start which is more than what most of you have done right? Yes! Sitting here writing on a forum is not changing the world, the same sinycal people are typing the same things over and over, and if one does not agree - oh boy watch out.
I mean really - grow up applaud folks who are trying to make a difference. You don't know it all! :flame:
-
Write handwritten letters to your Congressman and Senators and the President.
Write letters to the editor.
Be brief, polite, and stick to the point.
That's the most effective thing that you can do.
Timoclea
-
On 2005-07-18 07:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
I mean really - grow up applaud folks who are trying to make a difference. You don't know it all!
A, all of your efforts still derive from the impulse to control, by force, any behavior you think is wrong. There's another approach that, arguably, is less apt to do harm and many orders of magnitude more likely to actually help. Since the advent of broad access to the net, some people are calling it the Vth Estate.
But it's really just the good old fashioned IVth estate, minus some technical hurtles and a myriad of regulatory ones. (see, while the Religious Reich was busy looking up Monica Lewinsky's skirt, the geeks went and built us a largely unregulated industry.... so kiss a geek! ::kiss:: )
Go back to the founding principles. The pen is mightier than the sword. Enlighten the people generally and tyranny and oppression of both mind and body shall vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
Do you understand that last line of my signature? No? Ask a Perl geek (or even a php geek or, likely, an asr geek...)
If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
-
-"It is more right for someone who wants liberty to force someone who does not want it to have it than it is for someone who does not want liberty to deprive someone else of it."- paraphrase of John Stuart Mill in "On Liberty."
When we protect a person from any part of involuntary incarceration, we may be inadvertently forcing someone to keep their mitts off their kid's liberty when perhaps the kid would say "thank you" later, but that is (according to Mill's philosophy) better than depriving the kids who would *not* say "thank you" later of their liberty.
This bill would not entirely protect teens from being incarcerated by their parents or guardian with no due process of law, but as a step in that direction, it's a step in the right direction.
I am a minarchist, not an anarchist.
I firmly believe that it is entirely appropriate to use force or coercion in retaliation (for deterrence or recompense) or defense against someone else who initiates force or fraud.
Not everyone believes that, but I do.
Freedom means allowing other people to do things you don't like.
Would I force and coerce facilities not to abuse and neglect minors? You bet your boots I would, as defensive force protecting the rights of the minors against the initiation of excessive and damaging force against them by their parents (knowingly or not) and bad facilities.
Pacifism can only survive in slavery or as a parasitic philosophy in the "safe" spaces for human freedom created by those who are not pacifists but who tolerate them.
The only way a sheep can peacefully coexist with a wolf is from the inside.***
Timoclea
***Old saying, actually just *almost* right. Sheep can coexist peacefully with wolves by effectively throwing some of their number to the wolves in the hope that the wolves will eat the throwers last. Like the old joke, "I don't have to outrun the tiger, I just have to outrun you."
-
and also..let's not forget this one:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeacti ... 1121799627 (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/890145940?ltl=1121799627)Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
-
it is sure moving ahead slowly - hopefully it is posted at other websites and so forth....
Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
James Madison
-
it should be sent even if their aren't an enormous amount of signatures.
If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
-
Just out of curiosity, does this legislation exist in the states?
-
Someday it might if enough people get involved and write and call their local and federal representatives.
...the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates
-
Let's get this and the federal bill signed and passed together! These petitions and letters to senators do mean something. These things are the voice that we finally now have, and the voice that we did not have as teenagers while suffering through all of that abuse!
We have a voice, and we shall speak as one strong voice! We are only humans, and we were only humans when we were abused.......we deserved better at the time the abuse occured and we sure as hell deserve better now!
Much love from me to all of you!
I don't even know half of you but I love you all anyway as humans and as fellow survivors.
If ye have been feeling down please hang in there.
I am not stopping the crusade to fight the evil-doers until I am six feet under! Justice will be served!
Take care,
-DPThe lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
Tacitus
-
A good head and good heart are always a formidable combination. But when you add to that a literate tongue or pen, then you have something very special
--Nelson Mandela
-
When is the petition going to be delivered? Over 300 now. That's not bad.
-
One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation.
--Thomas Brackett Reed
-
I think we need to demand that our government help our american children enrolled in these abusive,dangerous schools.
all of our kids deserve the attention and energy that is being spent on the Alabama girl missing in the foreign country of Aruba. The same energy need apply to the Jamaica facility and thechildren enrolled there.
BOYCOTT Jamaica.The tourist need to stop going until all of are kids are removed off that island and brought home.
-
He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
James Burgh 1774
-
DP- you are inspiring!
Antigen- I sure hope all that wheel spinning did not alienate the people like you've said- I can't imagine why on earth that would be the case. Far as explanation for why I support the bill- I don't think that matters. I already signed- its important for others to see why they should support it and sign. If you're saying I should explain the bill to them, then that's different- in that instance I think the name says it all. thnkx for the advice on outside the forum activities, i do realize that is an option- if I had more time. Additionaly I attend a school that is full of cummuters (hence minimal campus activity) and most poor students that come from working class families- they have little empathy for a cause that involves mostly indiiduals outside of their class (even if this is not exclusively so). I made a small attempt at one point- thnx anyway.
I was going to send petition in this Monday but I'm working with Allison Pinto PhD. from USF to spread the word around her circles- then after that I'll send it out. I've sent my letter, I hope you're all making your calls sending your letters too, even if its likely this bill won't see light of day- gotta start somewhere.
Seems to me many people have been far too damaged and become inactive, thus tacitly consent to these programs and what they have done to them
-
Kat,
Great to see that i am inspiring someone.
I think that antigen had a point with the things that she said to ye and meant well. I just don't think that she thought it all through before she had sent what she typed. She is still "good people" though, even though I do not know her personally I have heard that about her through some reliable sources. Also, I know what ye mean about spreading the word around campus. It can be very hard to hold peoples attention about these kind of things especially if they have never experienced things like this personally themselves.
I also agree with you that "The programs" have beaten a lot of survivors down so badly that they don't know how to get back up from all of it.
This is the reason that I keep going and keep fighting, not only for myself but for the ones that cannot do it and cannot get back up and for the kids that it is now happening to as we speak.One of the reasons I feel that the federal petition has taken off now like it has is b/c I have been non stop promoting it. I have plastered it literally on some very key sites on the net, and have been emailing friends and family to sign and pass it along to whoever they know as well.
I also employed the help of the democratic party and also the moveon.org people.
I am hoping that HR 1738 petition will reach 400 signatures by early next week. At the rate it has been going it looks like it may just do that.
Since this is a federal petition we really need a couple of thousand signatures for them to take this seriously and actually investigate this.
If we work hard and do the foot work I feel the rest will take care of itself.
Thanks for your input again!
Take care of yourself and I hope that ye are having a good day.
-DPI hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
--Robert Frost, American poet
-
About 350 so far - not too bad. Hopefully this will at least get to a vote by the house.
It could at least make a dent in this very unregulated industry -where those who try to educate the public are shot down and sued maliciously. It will definitely take an act of Congress to open up the eyes of the public.
I hope that everyone here does something to help with this legislation. No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats---approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
--Lazlo's Chinese Relativity Axiom:
-
TSW - Please also take a few minutes and write these gentlemen as suggested in this post:
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =10#114566 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10542&forum=9&start=10#114566)
We who support this bill know darn well it's not the all-mighty answer, but it's a start.
I personally am in contact with Congressman Miller's office and I know for a fact that if this bill is not set for hearing it will not make it to the floor. It has to make it's way to Chairman Hyde, and that hasn't happened yet. I called Hyde's office the other day. So until these gentlemen hear from us this thing is going no where. I strongly urge you to sign the petition and send your letters.
So please send your letters to:
Chairman John Boehner
Committee of Education in the Workplace
1011 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515
and to:
Chairman Henry Hyde
House International Committee
2170 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515
Let them know your personal experiences and why you feel this should pass.
-
:cool:
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to.
George Orwell, 1984
-
359 today and climbing!
See, we can all accomplish this together! Let's do it!
regards,
-DPA government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
James Madison, The Federalist No. 46
-
Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle
-
On 2005-07-19 23:06:00, Deprogrammed wrote:
"and also..let's not forget this one:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeacti ... 1121799627 (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/890145940?ltl=1121799627)Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
"
A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
-
This I believe: That the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in the world. And this I would fight for: The freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected. And this I must fight against: Any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual.
--John Steinbeck, American novelist
-
:cool:
Patient memoirs are a kind of protest literature like slave narratives or witness testimonies.
G.A.Hornstein
-
please continue to sign the petition and pass it on....
-
376 signatures so far- pretty good I think. If anyone can help spread the word to friends and family I think we can top 400 before it goes out.
Also, if anyone- parents, health advocates or professional want to sign on to this letter created by Allison Pinto, PhD. we can really slam 'em. The movement is growing, even CWLA, APA, and others are on board.
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... letter.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/legislation/pinto-letter.htm)
-
There are some excellent comments. When will this petition be presented to the board?
-
I've seen some excellent comments. When will this petition be presented to the board?
-
I wish I knew!
If anyone has information on when this petition will go before the board please post a comment stating so.
Ty
regards,
-DP :cool: Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
-
Hello all,
Truthfully, I'm not sure. Trying to figure out ways to maximize impact, hopefully getting the mental health professional sign-on, as well as the parent sign on letter to be included- see links below for contact info on where to sign on if your a parent or work in the mental health field (and spread the word if you know of any.) (Note: the date presently on the site is not accurate and needs to be updated- Allison Pinto has set the deadline to September 9th to sign on)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... letter.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/legislation/pinto-letter.htm)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... letter.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/legislation/parent-letter.htm)
kat
ps.- i know everyone's tired of hearing this, but please spread the word. It would so great to hit 500, or higher!
-
what comments have you seen? where?
-
Thanks for the update, Kat, please let us know as soon as ye have official word on the fed. petition especially.
I will continue to inspire ye, Kat and spread the word. :smile:
regards,
:cool:- DP
"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily. Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."
Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress
[ This Message was edited by: Deprogrammed on 2005-08-20 19:04 ]
-
Update:
Fed Bill Hr 1738 Petition: 391 currently
Kids Helping Kids Petition: 107 currently
HHS Child Protective Services Petition: 2,274 currently
:cool: -DPSociety in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine
-
[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-08-21 20:50 ]
-
I sent a note out to all on my e-mail list asking them to take time to consider signing this petition - and had great responce. Just a short and simple note can help spread the word.
Faith is believing something you know ain't true.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
-
Since the preventable death of my daughter, Michelle Lynn Sutton, in a so-called Wilderness Therapy Facility, I have hoped and prayed for a law that would govern this lucrative, out of control industry. There are two fatal flaws, that cannot be regulated. The "window of loss" mentality that says of the death of each child, "we lost ONE, but we are saving many," and the Hitlarian mentality about these kids that continues to claim their young lives. These two fatal flaws must be weeded out of the industry by improving the quality of care within the industry, while seeing to it that a level of expectation is in place and enforced. I have often said that I as a parent could not have done TO my daughter what was done TO her and walked away a free person. How is it that this industry can? Sincerely, Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. Catherine Sutton Colusa, California
-
Powerful testimonial right there!
warm regards,
-DPDrug War tells us everyone's body is common property
to be managed by the central government for our own
good, even if it kills us. This is Communism!
Drug Policy Foundation of Texas
--Bob Ramsey
-
Cathryn, I think you probably had no idea what these people were planning to do to your daughter. And it's tragic beyond words how this story plays out again and again.
I don't oppose regulatory or legislative efforts to do something about the problem, but I don't have much faith in them either. At the bottom of it, this industry sells the parents on some sort of mystical, magical, God in a bottle cure for teen angst and credulous, insecure parents are buying it. One side of the marketing has to do w/ hysterical fear mongering over what is really very often just plain old growing pains.
The other side is hysterical fear mongering over our perceived inability, as families and communities, to raise our young. That concept alone bears much scrutiny. If you stop and think about it for a moment, it's patently rediculous to think that, after all these thousands of years, our species and our cultures suddenly need some sort of expert help in raising young. What?! Ok, even if I give that the benefit of the doubt for the sake of discussion, just exactly what is this new-fangled, expert method?
If more people would ask those simple questions, not buy a pig in a poke, as it were, rather than making the tragic and misguided assumption that Big Brother in the form of some regulatory agency is looking out for us, that would go a long way toward tanking the market for these scheisters.
Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil ---in its worst state an
intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same
miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without
government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we
furnish the means by which we suffer!
Thomas Paine, Common Sense
-
Fed HR 1738 petition: 476 currently signed
-
481 - slow but sure. When will you turn this petition in? Any news on this bill? Haven't heard anything for awhile.
-
On 2005-08-02 14:49:00, Deprogrammed wrote:
"
On 2005-07-19 23:06:00, Deprogrammed wrote:
"and also..let's not forget this one:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeacti ... 1121799627 (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/890145940?ltl=1121799627)Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
"
A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
"
Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
-
i heard that it was going to be hand delievered some time in October
-
When is this going to be sent in? I'd suggest getting 500 signers and then going forward - I've been watching this petition and it is very slow moving.
-
:smokin:
First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97
-
500 signatures today!
This petition, unless anything changes, will be hand delivered mid-Oct. along with other sign-on letters from parents, kids, and mental health professionals.
If you wish to include your own statement in the packet please see this website and contact Allison Pinto, PhD. (contact info on the website). The more personalized the better.
http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html (http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html)
kat
-
I was in such a program as an adolescent. I can testify that the damages far exceed any perceived benefits of placing teenagers in such abusive programs. This bill needs support.
-
-
Poll Results:
A big thank you to everyone who participated in our online poll for August/September. We had 164 responses to the question if there should be a national regulatory system over emotional growth/therapeutic residential schools and programs.
Please revisit our new poll for October and register your opinion. This month?s question asks: ?For children, are psychotropic (mood altering) drugs used: Too Much; About Right; Not Enough; Unsure.? To make your opinion count, please click here and share your opinion. The only limit is you can not vote more than once a day.
The poll question for August/September asked ?Should there be a national regulatory system over private schools and programs for struggling teens.? The responses were almost evenly split between yes and no. There were 75 responses (46%) for a national regulatory system, and 76 responses (46%) against, with only 13 (8%) being unsure. If this poll is representative of the public?s attitude, a big if since it is not a scientifically designed sample, the following are some possible interpretations, and observations based on my discussions with many people over the last several years.
From discussions I?ve had with people, I think the views of the yes votes were probably mostly for two reasons. One is that parents of kids with problems need all the help they can get, and they trust that regulators could provide some help by improving the quality of programs available to parents. The other is the regulators would be able to put pressure on programs that might be preying on parents through professional oversight, and eliminate dangerous and irresponsible practices.
The no votes would likely see the above as ?Great Expectations,? that is, that the yes voters are automatically and naively assuming that the regulators would be wise and supportive. The no voters likely are people that feel that a national regulatory system would tend to favor something similar to the public systems that parents tried and were disappointed by before they choose a private parent-choice school or program. The no voters also likely would be those that see some national regulatory system as a system developed by politicians and administered by bureaucrats ? a perspective that is a little scary. For example, if the system were set up to hire psychiatrists that favored medication therapy, then there would be pressure on all private programs to look more and more like hospitals under managed care, a system that is being criticized as being not very responsive to the needs of many teens with emotional/behavioral problems.
The almost even split between the two viewpoints suggests that the public is widely split, and we are a long way from consensus. Also, that the proposal has enough interest that it should be thoroughly debated, and all aspects studied. We at Woodbury Reports would be very interested in publishing submissions on a variety of viewpoints on this proposal as part of a public debate.
Lon Woodbury, MA, IECA
Certified Educational Planner
Woodbury Reports Inc.
http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com)
-
On 2005-10-06 08:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Poll Results:
A big thank you to everyone who participated in our online poll for August/September. We had 164 responses to the question if there should be a national regulatory system over emotional growth/therapeutic residential schools and programs.
Please revisit our new poll for October and register your opinion. This month?s question asks: ?For children, are psychotropic (mood altering) drugs used: Too Much; About Right; Not Enough; Unsure.? To make your opinion count, please click here and share your opinion. The only limit is you can not vote more than once a day.
The poll question for August/September asked ?Should there be a national regulatory system over private schools and programs for struggling teens.? The responses were almost evenly split between yes and no. There were 75 responses (46%) for a national regulatory system, and 76 responses (46%) against, with only 13 (8%) being unsure. If this poll is representative of the public?s attitude, a big if since it is not a scientifically designed sample, the following are some possible interpretations, and observations based on my discussions with many people over the last several years.
From discussions I?ve had with people, I think the views of the yes votes were probably mostly for two reasons. One is that parents of kids with problems need all the help they can get, and they trust that regulators could provide some help by improving the quality of programs available to parents. The other is the regulators would be able to put pressure on programs that might be preying on parents through professional oversight, and eliminate dangerous and irresponsible practices.
The no votes would likely see the above as ?Great Expectations,? that is, that the yes voters are automatically and naively assuming that the regulators would be wise and supportive. The no voters likely are people that feel that a national regulatory system would tend to favor something similar to the public systems that parents tried and were disappointed by before they choose a private parent-choice school or program. The no voters also likely would be those that see some national regulatory system as a system developed by politicians and administered by bureaucrats ? a perspective that is a little scary. For example, if the system were set up to hire psychiatrists that favored medication therapy, then there would be pressure on all private programs to look more and more like hospitals under managed care, a system that is being criticized as being not very responsive to the needs of many teens with emotional/behavioral problems.
The almost even split between the two viewpoints suggests that the public is widely split, and we are a long way from consensus. Also, that the proposal has enough interest that it should be thoroughly debated, and all aspects studied. We at Woodbury Reports would be very interested in publishing submissions on a variety of viewpoints on this proposal as part of a public debate.
Lon Woodbury, MA, IECA
Certified Educational Planner
Woodbury Reports Inc.
http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com)
"
IMO, this is propaganda at it's finest ... Mr. Woodbury is an educational consultant with an obvious interest in helping to keep the for profit teen help industry SELF-REGULATED.
Second, is it not a fact that Woodbury Reports publishes paid advertising for some of the most controversial programs while at the same time, censoring his discussion forums from anti-teen-helpers?
Woodbury needs to get off his soapbox and let the survivors of residential treatment abuse proceed forward with their agenda. They, not he, know firsthand that self-regulation benefits the owners/operators of these facilities, not the inductees (residents).
Who's watching the teen helpers? The ed cons? The parent-owned referral agencies? The Abductors-For-Hire? The TOUGHLOVE bullies?
I think we all know the answer to that question.
:smokin:
-
For example, if the system were set up to hire psychiatrists that favored medication therapy, then there would be pressure on all private programs to look more and more like hospitals under managed care, a system that is being criticized as being not very responsive to the needs of many teens with emotional/behavioral problems.
I would take that over being at an abusive program anyday. Medicate me, don't send me somewhere where the head guy has only an ecology degree for him to break me down to build me back up through coercion and terror- and attempt to 'treat' me w/o any idea what you are doing. Really, though, the hope is that we can imporve access to home based quality care that involves the family and impowers youth, as part of Keeping Families Together Act, part of it reads:
Provide grants to states to create infrastructure to support and sustain statewide systems of care to serve these children more effectively and efficiently while keeping them with their families.
----------
Their are some communities- few and far between, with remarkably effective systems of care in place. I say, why send your kid away, if not absolutely neccesary, when it is possible to resolve issues at home. I think, at this point, most parents send their kids aways b/c they don't feel their exists any other alternative. Hopefully, in due time, that will cease to be the case... Being seperated from family is far more traumatic in itself...
-
bump
-
http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/kfta_summary.pdf (http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/kfta_summary.pdf)
-
soooooooooooo....almost 600 signatures!!
-
On 2005-10-06 09:13:00, katfish wrote:
"lon writes:
The almost even split between the two viewpoints suggests that the public is widely split, and we are a long way from consensus. Also, that the proposal has enough interest that it should be thoroughly debated, and all aspects studied. We at Woodbury Reports would be very interested in publishing submissions on a variety of viewpoints on this proposal as part of a public debate.
my reply:
I find this highly dubious, there's nothing scientific about the poll and most people have no real idea the abuse that goes on at some of these facilities...I would expect that regulation would be a no-brainer. Give me buearacracy over the abuse and lack of quality care I received any day!
w/o the facts people can't make an educated decision on the matter...in due time, perhaps."
Newsflash: :smokin: When I started as a federal narcotics agent, the budget that we were working with, it was less than $5 million a year, and there was only 125 agents for the entire world to work the narcotic trade that we were fighting in those days. Times have changed. The gluttony has grown.
--Nick Navarro, former Broward, FL Sherrif
-
On 2005-10-17 19:21:00, Deprogrammed wrote:
"
On 2005-10-06 09:13:00, katfish wrote:
"lon writes:
The almost even split between the two viewpoints suggests that the public is widely split, and we are a long way from consensus. Also, that the proposal has enough interest that it should be thoroughly debated, and all aspects studied. We at Woodbury Reports would be very interested in publishing submissions on a variety of viewpoints on this proposal as part of a public debate.
my reply:
I find this highly dubious, there's nothing scientific about the poll and most people have no real idea the abuse that goes on at some of these facilities...I would expect that regulation would be a no-brainer. Give me buearacracy over the abuse and lack of quality care I received any day!
w/o the facts people can't make an educated decision on the matter...in due time, perhaps."
Newsflash: :smokin: When I started as a federal narcotics agent, the budget that we were working with, it was less than $5 million a year, and there was only 125 agents for the entire world to work the narcotic trade that we were fighting in those days. Times have changed. The gluttony has grown.
--Nick Navarro, former Broward, FL Sherrif
"
BUMPFaith is believing something you know ain't true.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
-
So few ppl get that, DP.
Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle
-
weber anyone?
-
drudging up an old topic- how would one go about suggesting we run a modern society w/o a bureacracy...