Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Antigen on June 19, 2005, 09:26:00 PM
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"On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor." [FBI memo]
U.S. Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), after reading that extract aloud on the Senate floor last week, said it did not sound like something out of an American-run prison. To his mind, it sounded more like something that Nazis or Soviets might have done
Anybody else following this?
...and in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.
(Jury nullification. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!)
Declaration of Rights, PA Constitution
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Remember Tranquility Bay statement "E" from ISACCORP?
Thats basically IDENTICAL to that!
Here is an exerpt from "Statement E" from the ISACCORP report on Tranquility Bay.
So, I flew to JA and went with [my friend] to see [name withheld by ISAC] and told her what I knew and how sick [my daughter] was all the time. She told me that she knew several guards and would have them check on [my daughter]. Two days later she called [my friend] and told us that [my daughter] was kept in solitary confinement most of the time. That when she wet herself she had buckets of water poured over the top of the 4x4 booth that she was shackled in. She was given one bowl of cornmeal mush a day and sometimes a piece of fruit and water from a tin bucket.
It can be found on fornits in the thread about randall hinton, here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#93462 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8973&forum=9&start=0#93462)
Now, I'm sure the state department will say that its not this country, so they dont care (despite the fact that I dont see why we dont protect our own kids) and the WWASPIES will say its a lie, but whatever. Its still amazing this kind of story can come out and NOTHING HAPPEN! :flame:
The fact that they dont go at least find out is a fucking joke, but then again, the opposition to the GOP is mostly immasculated and ineffectual.
The Christian God can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. The are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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I was thinking the same thing today, "oh well, fuck those guys, they were shooting at us, what the hell about our own kids?" you know? I dont think alot of people know whats going on, if we just told the law makers and supported it, bitched wildly to the media, then every one would know and we could kill these people for what they have done.
Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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Read up on what Howard Dean has to say about it. He was a POW for over 5 years. He knows from whence he speaks.
One of the things he's harping on lately is that these guys need and deserve full on, American style justice; an open trial to determine whether or not any particular individual is guilty. W/o that public and credible trial, it's just scapegoating.
Isn't our buddy Linchpin taking a beating right now for sporting a symbol of political scapegoating in his sig?
As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
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Well, its a shame that Howard Dean is too vocal, indignant and well, eager to point out bullshit and raise hell (kinda like me :grin:) to get terribly far in the current political climate.
Was he really a POW for 5 years? I didnt see that in his wikipedia entry :???:
Anywho, good luck getting through to people, and even bigger, good luck making them CARE. Everyone is so apathetic these days you can do ANYTHING and nobody cares unless you personally hurt them!I think the human race encountered Peak Intelligence decades or centuries ago. The human race has been degrading into imbeciles ever since.
Eric Hufschmid
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No one is shackeled in TB. That is just BS being spewed by someone who was not happy with the results. OP does go on but no Shackels!
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First off, OP? second off, there dont have to be shackles for one to be controled. The shackles these children have on are mental, and emotional, also there have been reports of restrains, and I dont think TB would spend the money on real shackles when they would just use rope or somthing cheap.
P.S. Howard Dean is a fool. He insults people without thought for what he says, consiquently he makes a fool out of him self, while I do respect him for his service to america, he just does not know how to be polite. The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
--Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President
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On 2005-06-20 04:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No one is shackeled in TB. That is just BS being spewed by someone who was not happy with the results. OP does go on but no Shackels!"
WWASP had shackled children many times at High Impact. I won't be surprised at all to find it happens at TB as well.
"Not happy with the results"? The "results" of the program are PTSD, social isolation, loss of any sense of self, anxiety and depression-- or worse: surrendering to the cult and becoming a WWASPie zombie. How can anyone be happy with WWASP's results?
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The similarities between the two situations are significant.
While I have never heard anyone say they wore shackles at TB or any other wwasp place - they do often attest to having been hog tied with duct tape.
Many confess to having lost control of bladder and bowels - or witnessing others suffering this humiliation.
One of the things much talked about when the Iraqi prisoner abuse story first broke, was the forcing of prisoners to maintain a stress position - and we all know how very familiar that is to any wwasp student.
The intentional infliction of stress, in the many varied ways, is the common denominator - and for the same reason - to break them down.
I also find it interesting that there are these frequent comparisons to the Holocaust. Those who say there is no comparison are right - there isn't - however, there is something about the situation and circumstances that people seem to recognize as a connection. It seems to strike the same cord of revulsion in people's minds. I think this is worth considering.
High Impact - did they have actual shackels - or was it also duct tape? I thought duct tape - but I can understand how duct tape might not serve as well to tie a kid down in a dog cage.
'[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-06-20 07:54 ]
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Psychological damage can be severe without having to actually restrain or injure or torture them.
Also, why arent you trying to dispute how sick that girl was? How poorly fed she was? How damaged she must have been to have cried for days and days and days?
How about ALL those medical problems she had, hmm? Is that just working the program?To regard Christ as God, and to pray to him, are to my mind the greatest possible sacrilege.
--Leo Tolstoy, Russian revolutionary
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On 2005-06-20 04:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No one is shackeled in TB. That is just BS being spewed by someone who was not happy with the results. OP does go on but no Shackels!"
You are an idiot. Kids were shackeled all the time while being transported to many WWASP facilities. Good try though programmie, your program language is a dead giveaway. How do you like them results! :wave:
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On 2005-06-19 21:28:00, Antigen wrote:
"Read up on what Howard Dean has to say about it. He was a POW for over 5 years. He knows from whence he speaks.
One of the things he's harping on lately is that these guys need and deserve full on, American style justice; an open trial to determine whether or not any particular individual is guilty. W/o that public and credible trial, it's just scapegoating.
Isn't our buddy Linchpin taking a beating right now for sporting a symbol of political scapegoating in his sig?
As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
"
Ahh no he was not a POW but claims his brother was, read his Bio.And yes he knows He knows from whence he speaks...that would be out his Ass.[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2005-06-20 14:00 ]
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Back ailment got Dean Vietnam draft deferment
Candidate says the government made decision on his status
Sarah Schweitzer and Tatsha Robertson
Boston Globe
Sept. 21, 2003 12:00 AM
In February 1970, with the Vietnam War raging, 21-year-old Howard Dean carried a set of X-rays and a letter from a Manhattan orthopedist named Hudson Wilson to Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, where U.S. military doctors determined that he was not fit for military service because of a back condition called spondylolisthesis.
Dean was classified 1Y, according to military records, meaning he was exempt from service for the duration of the war and free to head to Colorado after his Yale graduation, where he skied at Aspen and poured concrete. Spondylolisthesis is a condition caused by an unfused vertebra. When diagnosed nearly four years earlier, he was cleared to participate in all sports except long-distance running.
"I didn't try to get out of the draft," Dean has said. "I had a physical."
Among the candidates vying for the presidency, Sen. John Kerry and retired Gen. Wesley Clark served in the Vietnam War. The others served in the National Guard, were too young for the draft, or were recipients of deferments. President Bush served in the National Guard.
Military service is nonetheless a potential political minefield. Dean is mindful of that.
"The United States government said this is your classification," he said on NBC's Meet the Press. "I'm not responsible for that. I didn't have anything to do with the decision. That was their choice."
The basis for his classification is difficult to document. The Selective Service System, following standard procedure, destroyed all records in Dean's file save his classification listings. Dean said he did not keep copies of the X-rays or Wilson's letter. Nor did he keep a copy, he said, of the letter he believes he wrote requesting a deferral from military service. His physician, Wilson, is dead.
Dean drew a relatively low lottery number, 143 out of 300, meaning he could have been called up after college, according to Lewis Brodsky, a Selective Service spokesman.
At Yale, Dean did not support the war but was not vocal. He took part in one protest, by his count. He said he was not overly worried about being drafted and said the reason he wrote a letter seeking a military medical exam was to clarify his standing.
"No, I wasn't obsessed. My attitude is, if there is a problem, you ought to face it and deal with it," Dean said.
He added, "I guess maybe I wasn't that concerned. I was just concerned enough. I think what I really wanted to know was whether I should go to officer candidate school, or something like that."
In high school, Dean considered having an operation to relieve the back condition but decided against it because it required a long convalescence. In college, he played intramural football. In Vermont, Dean hiked half of the 265-mile Long Trail and canoed the entire Connecticut River. Today, Dean says, the back injury still causes occasional pain.
But if Dean has largely lived without notice of his condition, it has trailed him nonetheless. When he chose to seek the presidency, Dean made sure official records of his health problem contained no surprises.
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In February 1970, with the Vietnam War raging, 21-year-old Howard Dean carried a set of X-rays and a letter from a Manhattan orthopedist named Hudson Wilson to Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, where U.S. military doctors determined that he was not fit for military service because of a back condition called spondylolisthesis.
Dean was classified 1Y, according to military records, meaning he was exempt from service for the duration of the war and free to head to Colorado after his Yale graduation, where he skied at Aspen and poured concrete. Spondylolisthesis is a condition caused by an unfused vertebra. When diagnosed nearly four years earlier, he was cleared to participate in all sports except long-distance running.
"I didn't try to get out of the draft," Dean has said. "I had a physical."
WHAT a loser! They could be talking about GeorgeW in this quote and nobody would know the difference. They are all the same.
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On 2005-06-20 14:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
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In February 1970, with the Vietnam War raging, 21-year-old Howard Dean carried a set of X-rays and a letter from a Manhattan orthopedist named Hudson Wilson to Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, where U.S. military doctors determined that he was not fit for military service because of a back condition called spondylolisthesis.
Dean was classified 1Y, according to military records, meaning he was exempt from service for the duration of the war and free to head to Colorado after his Yale graduation, where he skied at Aspen and poured concrete. Spondylolisthesis is a condition caused by an unfused vertebra. When diagnosed nearly four years earlier, he was cleared to participate in all sports except long-distance running.
"I didn't try to get out of the draft," Dean has said. "I had a physical."
WHAT a loser! They could be talking about GeorgeW in this quote and nobody would know the difference. They are all the same."
Yes they are Politicians are all the same, most anyway
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Could it be that all of you are talking about Sen John McCain???
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On 2005-06-20 17:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Could it be that all of you are talking about Sen John McCain???"
I don't know if thats who they are referiing to or not I believe he was a POW for roughly 71/2 years at the Hanoi Hilton. But it certainly was not Mr. Durbin
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If transporters use cuffs to get the kid to the facility, the that is the only time that happens. Once there they do not use cuffs or shackels. So you eat your nice try on twisting the fact that wwasp does not shackel. The transporters are all independent. And have the right to use cuffs to take the kid by law. The parents are also told that the transporters might have to use cuffs. :wave:
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If transporters use cuffs to get the kid to the facility, the that is the only time that happens. Once there they do not use cuffs or shackels. So you eat your nice try on twisting the fact that wwasp does not shackel. The transporters are all independent. And have the right to use cuffs to take the kid by law. The parents are also told that the transporters might have to use cuffs.
Ok listen to me you Anon bastard, and you listen good, because your about to get a lession in the law you say you know. A child may not be restrained at any time, unless it can be proved in a court of law they are a danger to them selfs or people around them. Parents may not give permission to have their children cuffed because that is still considered abuse, these escort services work outside the law, and many are run by people that used to be law officers, so they know they can get away with it. Also Transporters commit the crime of kidnapping every time they take a child, and do you know why? Kiddnapping is considered the use of fource or coersion to hold or transport a person against his or her will. Guess what that means? If you said that they are breaking the law, your right and you get a cokkie. And who the hell at one of these camps needs cuffs or shackles any way when all you need a some rope and some knowledge and the person is going no where.It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-- Aristotle
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I pesonally do not use cuffs unless the kid makes me. %98 of the time the kid knows they need help and goes, or just makes the right choice. If i do have to use cuffs, they are on for only the time the kid is out of control.
If it is against the law, then why have I had situations where the cops got involved and in every circumstance and every state that it has happened I have been avle to continue the journey with the kid cuffed or not. So you can call me bastard or any thing else. But I work within the law and have made a positive impact in many kids lives. I and my company as I have stated in the past are youth counslers with at least one person on every job having a degree.
I know that these programs are tough, but I have personally never seen anything abusive when I am there. By the way I can walk the halls at these schools without an escort, so nothing is hidden.
If I saw anything I would Report it.
The one who cares
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I see no difference between cuff/shackels and the use of duct tape to hog tie a kid. The effect is the same.
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On 2005-06-21 05:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If transporters use cuffs to get the kid to the facility, the that is the only time that happens. Once there they do not use cuffs or shackels. So you eat your nice try on twisting the fact that wwasp does not shackel. The transporters are all independent. And have the right to use cuffs to take the kid by law. The parents are also told that the transporters might have to use cuffs. :wave: "
WWASP suggests using those transports, and helps parents get in contact with them. You wish to argue semantics, because that is the only argument you can make. You are an apologist for an abusive, unnecessary and uneffective program. Are you a parent who had child kidnappers come and abduct their child? Sure sounds like it.
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On 2005-06-21 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I pesonally do not use cuffs unless the kid makes me. %98 of the time the kid knows they need help and goes, or just makes the right choice. If i do have to use cuffs, they are on for only the time the kid is out of control.
If it is against the law, then why have I had situations where the cops got involved and in every circumstance and every state that it has happened I have been avle to continue the journey with the kid cuffed or not. So you can call me bastard or any thing else. But I work within the law and have made a positive impact in many kids lives. I and my company as I have stated in the past are youth counslers with at least one person on every job having a degree.
I know that these programs are tough, but I have personally never seen anything abusive when I am there. By the way I can walk the halls at these schools without an escort, so nothing is hidden.
If I saw anything I would Report it.
The one who cares"
::puke:: 'The one who cares'?!! Are you fucking kidding me? You are responsible for stealing kids from their homes and putting them into prison camps, and you think what you do is good? You sicken me, and I sincerely hope a crazed student gets the upperhand on you one day, if you know what I mean. :skull:
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I pesonally do not use cuffs unless the kid makes me. %98 of the time the kid knows they need help and goes, or just makes the right choice. If i do have to use cuffs, they are on for only the time the kid is out of control.
If it is against the law,then why have I had situations where the cops got involved and in every circumstance and every state that it has happened I have been avle to continue the journey with the kid cuffed or not. So you can call me bastard or any thing else. But I work within the law and have made a positive impact in many kids lives. I and my company as I have stated in the past are youth counslers with at least one person on every job having a degree.
I know that these programs are tough, but I have personally never seen anything abusive when I am there. By the way I can walk the halls at these schools without an escort, so nothing is hidden.
If I saw anything I would Report it.
The one who cares
Ok punk, time to rip you a new one, I hope you can sit down once I am done with you.
Let us begin with the calling of the names, first off, I want it noted that I am calling you these things not because I dont have anything else to say, but because you are these things and they need to be said, because apprently, you do not realise what your doing is wrong. You my friend are human scum, you step in and help apprent send children to these schools, you, in my view, are the worst part of the system, you are a kiddnapper, who takes children out of their homes, out of their bed, and toss them into hell, I compare you to the barge man on the river Styx. You have no legal athority to do this, you have no power, you simply physically take them. I hope that a kid snaps and kills you when you try and take him, I hope a kid defends him self and you get sent to the hospital.
Now, let us continue with rebuting what you have to say
then why have I had situations where the cops got involved and in every circumstance and every state that it has happened I have been avle to continue the journey with the kid cuffed or not.
Because the cops dont give a rats ass, they dont care about this kids that they have most likely had run ins with, and neither does the state, because the state has its own kids to worry about. If the kid had a lawyer then you would be in jail or out on the street in seconds, if the kids had some one to stand up for them, besides their other friends.
I know that these programs are tough, but I have personally never seen anything abusive when I am there.
Thats because you drop the kid off toss him where they tell you to be tossed then leave, are you telling me that you say at these places 24/7 to watch what goes on?
The one who cares
If you sign your posts like that one more time I will take it up with the admin, do you know why? Because you dont care! your a beast, a animal that preys off of poor familes with issues, you help split them up, and give a child more issues that he has to deal with, you are a modern monster, good at pr and self deciving.With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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Good, its done, you may now get out of that pool of blood on the floor, sorry its so messy, but your going to be walking funny for a few days, you know you diserve it, hope that new hole I riped you fits well.
Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"
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On 2005-06-21 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I pesonally do not use cuffs unless the kid makes me. %98 of the time the kid knows they need help and goes, or just makes the right choice. If i do have to use cuffs, they are on for only the time the kid is out of control.
If it is against the law, then why have I had situations where the cops got involved and in every circumstance and every state that it has happened I have been avle to continue the journey with the kid cuffed or not. So you can call me bastard or any thing else. But I work within the law and have made a positive impact in many kids lives. I and my company as I have stated in the past are youth counslers with at least one person on every job having a degree.
I know that these programs are tough, but I have personally never seen anything abusive when I am there. By the way I can walk the halls at these schools without an escort, so nothing is hidden.
If I saw anything I would Report it.
The one who cares"
I hope you realize how stupid you sound. Trying to justify your evil deeds to people who have first-hand experience of what you do have NO sympathy or understanding for people like you.
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Oh somthing I forgot to add to the annon poster who is apprently a kiddnapper.
Does your family know what you do? If they do I bet their ashamed of you, if they do, I bet your kids dont trust you, if they do, I bet your not invited to the family gatherings.The weavers of linen and hempen cloth, ... may exercise their trades without paying any fine.
-- Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (chapter X, part II) notes:
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On 2005-06-21 08:50:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Oh somthing I forgot to add to the annon poster who is apprently a kiddnapper.
Does your family know what you do? If they do I bet their ashamed of you, if they do, I bet your kids dont trust you, if they do, I bet your not invited to the family gatherings.The weavers of linen and hempen cloth, ... may exercise their trades without paying any fine.
-- Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (chapter X, part II) notes:
"
I am sure this stupid fuck lies to his family, and says he 'helps' teens. Just another syncophant on the bustling behavior mod industry.
By the way, what type of qualifications are necessary to become a child-kidnapper? Did you have previous experience? :rofl:
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By the way, what type of qualifications are necessary to become a child-kidnapper? Did you have previous experience?
Getting away from the debate, because I dont think the guy is going to respond, I will give the qualifcations.
1. It helps if you were a corupt police officer.
2. Must not have kids, because once they find out what you do, their liable to kill/disown/harrass you for the rest of your life.
3. Must enjoy breaking up families
4. Must beable to to control a kid half your size and smack him around till he stops cring because he/she is so scared
5. Optional - Likes to rape/molest little girls in their care
6. Be a good lier.
7. Can shoot a man in the back with a taser from 30 feet to keep him from running.
8. Have a set of hand cuffs (where they have been does not matter)
9. Must be able to buy off cops.
10. Must be a good lier.
Bonus pay if you can break the kids before they get there.This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
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You know.. on second thought, I seriously doubt this guy even has a family.
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On 2005-06-21 08:56:00, OverLordd wrote:
"By the way, what type of qualifications are necessary to become a child-kidnapper? Did you have previous experience?
Getting away from the debate, because I dont think the guy is going to respond, I will give the qualifcations.
1. It helps if you were a corupt police officer.
2. Must not have kids, because once they find out what you do, their liable to kill/disown/harrass you for the rest of your life.
3. Must enjoy breaking up families
4. Must beable to to control a kid half your size and smack him around till he stops cring because he/she is so scared
5. Optional - Likes to rape/molest little girls in their care
6. Be a good lier.
7. Can shoot a man in the back with a taser from 30 feet to keep him from running.
8. Have a set of hand cuffs (where they have been does not matter)
9. Must be able to buy off cops.
10. Must be a good lier.
Bonus pay if you can break the kids before they get there.This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
"
:lol: Sounds about right!
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The ONLY reasons teens go willingly without a fight is because they are lied to repeatedly about where they are going. Not many teens even know these types of places exist, and are naive, thinking they still have rights.
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The ONLY reasons teens go willingly without a fight is because they are lied to repeatedly about where they are going. Not many teens even know these types of places exist, and are naive, thinking they still have rights.
Of course they have rights, its just they dont chose to fight for them, and no one chose to protect them from the people that would take them, I have been fighting people over my rights ever sence I found out there was a consitution, and saw how important it was. (I dont mean violently, I mean verbally)Religions are all alike; founded upon fables and mythologies.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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The kids have no rights, if a parent wants to send their kid to a program, even the police will not stop them. Their only right is to run as far away as they can until they turn 18.
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The kids have no rights, if a parent wants to send their kid to a program, even the police will not stop them. Their only right is to run as far away as they can until they turn 18.
thats not ture, thanks to resent supream court rulings your parents now do not have a right to listen to your phone conversations, and you also have the right to be represented by a indepent attourny. children also have freedom of speach, and freedom of association.Peace and abstinence from European interferences are our objects, and so will continue while the present order of things in America remain uninterrupted.
--Thomas Jefferson
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I pesonally do not use cuffs unless the kid makes me.
Why can't you take responsiblity for your own actions?
No one can "make" you cuff them. That is your decision, and yours alone. It is you who kidnaps children from their beds. It is you who transports them to gulags to be abused and broken down. And it is you and your kind of sub-human garbage who use handcuffs and tasers of kids.
YOU are responsible for this. YOU choose to do this. Not the kid. Not anyone else. It's YOU and you alone. Time to own up and take responsibility for your own choices.
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guys, we really cant attack this guy, because he knews what he did, I ripped him a new one and he is most likely not going to try and defend him self again or post again. He simply does not have the guts to stand up for what he believes, or what he does, so lets stop attacking him ok?
If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
John Cleese
[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-21 10:22 ]
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On 2005-06-21 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I pesonally do not use cuffs unless the kid makes me. %98 of the time the kid knows they need help and goes, or just makes the right choice. If i do have to use cuffs, they are on for only the time the kid is out of control.
If it is against the law, then why have I had situations where the cops got involved and in every circumstance and every state that it has happened I have been avle to continue the journey with the kid cuffed or not. So you can call me bastard or any thing else. But I work within the law and have made a positive impact in many kids lives. I and my company as I have stated in the past are youth counslers with at least one person on every job having a degree.
I know that these programs are tough, but I have personally never seen anything abusive when I am there. By the way I can walk the halls at these schools without an escort, so nothing is hidden.
If I saw anything I would Report it.
The one who cares"
PS FUCK YOU!
okay, im done.
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Ok, good, now that were done attacking him, maybe he would care to explane hm self if he has the bravery to come back, which I dont think he will. He knows what he does is wrong, alot more wrong than taking drugs, lieing, stealing, sleeping around, whatever the hell these kids do to get a visit by him, and hopefully he will see how evil he is and take his own life, untill then, or untill we responds, lets continue with the discussion.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
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You all just make me laugh! :grin:
Overlord, who the hell do you think you are. With
a name like that you must be a full of shit ego maniac. I'm way over you lord. I take pride in my job and that is all I have to say. You don't understand that kids don't get to run there own lives and parents will do what ever they have to do to try and save thier kids. If it means having me come and do an intervention for them and take the kid to somewhere they have chosen for thier child to get help. Then it is thier right and choice. The kid has been making some very dangerous choices and they are lucky that thier parents can do it. THE ONE WHO CARES
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On 2005-06-21 14:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You all just make me laugh! :grin:
Overlord, who the hell do you think you are. With
a name like that you must be a full of shit ego maniac. I'm way over you lord. I take pride in my job and that is all I have to say. You don't understand that kids don't get to run there own lives and parents will do what ever they have to do to try and save thier kids. If it means having me come and do an intervention for them and take the kid to somewhere they have chosen for thier child to get help. Then it is thier right and choice. The kid has been making some very dangerous choices and they are lucky that thier parents can do it. THE ONE WHO CARES"
The one who kidnaps, you can't justify your criminal and immoral activities by pointing out the criminal and immoral activities of other people (those stupid, lazy, irresponsible parents). As I said, you need to leanr to take responsibilty for your own actions, including the fact that you facilitate the abuse, neglect, torture, and thought reform of minors.
You will pay, eventually. You will be put behind bars, where you belong.
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Kidnapper, I know cops who live well beyond the means of anyone on a cops salary. We all know what's going on there. We all know it's illegal as hell. So how in the world can that be?
Because they're corrupt. That's why. Just because you get away w/ it doesn't make it right. You'll be damned lucky if you don't get your due one day.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
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You all just make me laugh!
Overlord, who the hell do you think you are. With
a name like that you must be a full of shit ego maniac. I'm way over you lord. I take pride in my job and that is all I have to say. You don't understand that kids don't get to run there own lives and parents will do what ever they have to do to try and save thier kids. If it means having me come and do an intervention for them and take the kid to somewhere they have chosen for thier child to get help. Then it is thier right and choice. The kid has been making some very dangerous choices and they are lucky that thier parents can do it. THE ONE WHO CARES
Oh, bitch got up, fine time to put you back down, where is my cattle prod when I need it? Maybe we should give you the same treatment kids get a the place. Anyway my name is a nod to Operation OverLord that I have had for years, in case your a idiot (whihc I do believe you are because your in the feild you are in) Operation OverLord was the D-Day invasion from WWII. Kids do get if my friend, you dont get that, we are alot smarter than you are, im 17 and I work at a software company and have a business of my own in dev and production sence I was 15, we grossed over 2000 dollars a year, I think thats great considering we had somthing like 5 clients and couldent drive.
Listen, you dont know or understand kids, if you think you do, I pity any children you ever may have. Guess what, you dont intervine, a intervention is done by a group of people that care, and it sure as hell does not end with a kid getting shipped off. If parents would do anything to help their kids they would not be going to these schools in the first place, they would be dealing with it on the family level, which is completely possable.
It is not in a parents right to have a child abused, you need to see that and what you do is help them, you are a great emotional scar on peoples lives.I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
I will also note that you did not accually respond to any comments or acusations that I made, you simply attacked my name, and then made baseless statements about how parents can do what they like, will you respond? I mean really respond? Or do you know yet that you cannot defend your self?[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-21 15:25 ]
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On 2005-06-21 14:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You all just make me laugh! :rofl:
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I'm glad you make so much money, although I don't believe your fantasy world. i could tell you were a kid by your writings. Oh and to the idiot who said i will be behind bars. Not if I don't break the law. Oh and Ginger I have never paid off any cops to let me go. Remember the idiots from Teen Escort who were arrested for the incident with the kid who grabed the driver and made him crash. That was for punching the kid, which they may or may not have done.
By the way I have been on this forim for a long time I just choose when to reply.
The one who cares
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On 2005-06-21 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm glad you make so much money, although I don't believe your fantasy world. i could tell you were a kid by your writings. Oh and to the idiot who said i will be behind bars. Not if I don't break the law. Oh and Ginger I have never paid off any cops to let me go. Remember the idiots from Teen Escort who were arrested for the incident with the kid who grabed the driver and made him crash. That was for punching the kid, which they may or may not have done.
By the way I have been on this forim for a long time I just choose when to reply.
The one who kidnaps"
We are in need of a good kidnaper to help run the straigh mobile.. You want a job? You dont have to worry when not to use handcuffs at straight by the sea... The policy is to use them all the time at straigh by the sea..[ This Message was edited by: Dr. Frankiln on 2005-06-21 18:30 ]
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OWC comes across as a troll sometimes.
Well, a troll or a true believer, the practical difference being nonexistant. :roll:
Im sure hes a true believer in this newfangled kidnapping intervention to 'fix' kids for any sort of imagined, vague, or nonexistant problem by making them do chores, go to seminars or miss out on a school education and do random meanial bullshit and obedience training, so dont even bother trying to poke holes in their processes.
He'd just say to look at the outcomes, despite the fact that even the graduates admit most program grads fuck up!
So, OWC, please come by and parrot your excuses for me again. I'd love a good hearty laugh as you try to excuse what you and the programs do!The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921
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I'm glad you make so much money, although I don't believe your fantasy world. i could tell you were a kid by your writings. Oh and to the idiot who said i will be behind bars. Not if I don't break the law. Oh and Ginger I have never paid off any cops to let me go. Remember the idiots from Teen Escort who were arrested for the incident with the kid who grabed the driver and made him crash. That was for punching the kid, which they may or may not have done.
By the way I have been on this forim for a long time I just choose when to reply.
The one who cares
You dont believe in my fantasy world? You could tell I was a kid by my writing? I'm still a kid, I'm 17. And I still have a better job, a much more moral one at that, than you do. Again, you just attack me, will you respond or not? hmm? You dont have the bravers to confront what I have to say because you know you cannot defend you self. So Mr. Escort, why not tell us about your family hmm? Your wife that either hates you for what you do, or pertisipates and is a bigger fool than you are. Or how about your kids? You know the ones that could never trust you if you have any? Or how about your parents, the ones that are ashamed of you? You know if people knew what you did they would have nothing to do with you, so when some one asks you what you do, what do you say?Education is that which remains, if one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, 1950
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I think the fact this guy is on a message board for program survivors to be a little strange. Why are you here? Do you have nothing better to do with your time, than try and justify your evil actions to the very people you fuck over in life? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I am not buying it, this character must be a troll. If they aren't... well, God help them.
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::sighs:: yeah your most likely right, I should stop having a heart attack about it shouldent i?
If we had been born in Constantinople, then most of us would have said: "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." If our parents had lived on the banks of the Ganges, we would have been worshipers of Siva, longing for the heaven of Nirvana.
--
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Ahhhhhh
Club Gitmo
Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad
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what happens in Gitmo
Stays in Gitmo :lol:
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On 2005-06-21 21:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ahhhhhh
Club Gitmo
Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad"
this is a direct quote of rush pillbaugh isnt it?
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Yep the fat fucker is hocking shirts with this stuff
on it. I did find the Jihad one amusing though
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hehe, yeah i read an article about him selling the orange t-shirts today. :roll: Also, on his website he has a weather thing that shows the temps both in baghdad (avg. 115F) and gitmo (avg 80).. that guy is crazy as hell..
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On 2005-06-21 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
Oh and Ginger I have never paid off any cops to let me go.
Oh, I wasn't talking about bribery. Did you think corruption and bribery were synonymous? Hell no! The cops and others who look the other way while one of their brethren skims the drug trade are not getting cash pay-offs either. They are just corrupt in thinking that cops deserve a little largess. After all, it's a tough job, they're the good guys, etc., etc. For not, you get a pass because they think you're one of those good guys too. But you're not. You're a Nazi.
Or a troll, maybe. Who the hell knows anymore?A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
Thomas Jefferson
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On 2005-06-21 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm glad you make so much money, although I don't believe your fantasy world. i could tell you were a kid by your writings. Oh and to the idiot who said i will be behind bars. Not if I don't break the law. Oh and Ginger I have never paid off any cops to let me go. Remember the idiots from Teen Escort who were arrested for the incident with the kid who grabed the driver and made him crash. That was for punching the kid, which they may or may not have done.
By the way I have been on this forim for a long time I just choose when to reply.
The one who cares"
The one who kidnaps doesn't seem to think that child abduction and assault are criminal offenses. Well, I bet he'll be in for a big surprise when the lawsuits from the children he harmed will start coming through. And they will, at some point. You will get what you deserve, kidnapper.
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Ginger, the best way to tell if hes a troll or not is to ask him piece by piece about how he can condone his methods and the programs, and their methods, given the results from them.
Even the graduates admit most of their fellow "alumni" fuck up once theyre out. The methods are "hard", not therapeutic. They dont get an education. They're isolated from the outside world. The people who RUN these places admit that the point is to break them down so they follow the program, not any sort of real therapy.
There are many accusations AND CONVICTIONS of abuse and other charges against the 'escorts'!
I also think the biggest thing of all is that now only do they not specifically treat anything at all, but the other thing is they always talk generally.
"SAVE THEIR LIFE!" Um from what? deadinsaneorinjail? Too general. Drugs? Fat chance drugs are going to kill someone, hah. Every friend I know whose used drugs is.. um.. fine. Never been in jail, only trouble with the law is speeding tickets, and theyre all in college. OMG? OOPS!
What, theyre gonna OD on pot and beer? One Who Kidnaps, do you ever drink alcohol?
Lets say the kid is going to a program for emotional damage. Why the fuck do they need to be locked up in a person for being depressed? For an eating disorder? PTSD? Aspergers kids? Why the fuck do Aspergers kids need this? I can tell you that Aspergers kids would only end up hurt by a program, or unaffected becuase theyre able to withdraw into their own little world.
Oh, and I can also say factually that programs hurt, not help, social development of people in them, ESPECIALLY in dealing with the opposite sex.
Sorry Mr. Kidnapper, but the bottom line is that the burden is upon *YOU*, because humanity has gotten off fine without abduction and imprisionment for 'fixing' adolescents! Puberty wasnt a fucking disorder or problem to be fixed until someone felt like making a buck off of dumbfucks like you and the scared parents they prey upon.
God, I know someone who went to a program for drinking and sleeping with older guys. THATS CALLED BEING A TEENAGER! UGH What the hell is wrong with everyone? We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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//007!
Nihilanthic comes through again! Well he mostly covered everything I have to say, so im going to let it slide till the guy posts again.
P.S. Rush Limbaugh is a pimp! Fights the left with half his brain tied behind his back and still finds time to play golf!I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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I don't need to re-explain my self, because there are many posts on here that I have. So I'm not going to go over it again for a 17 year old or anyone else for that matter. Do some searching and find my old posts if you want me explanation. I am very content with what I do. My family is of no concern to you. They are not an issue here.I have seen kids 9 months later and have gotten hugs and thanks. All the crap you spew does not change that fact. I have seen the change in some of these kids.
I will always look in on your BS Board, but will only respond when I feel it is needed.
THE ONE WHO CARES :wave:
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Ok, he is a troll, either that or he doesnt know how to properly debate anything, which is quiet possible. You know, maybe if you got a log in and defend your self like a man, I would look for your posts, but guess what, I'm not going to waist my time looking for some anon that is to scared to show his face, or argue his case.
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Suits me fine. All the posts were signed with the one who cares. :wave:
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This is not a SQL data base, I cant cross referance for text, the search is a most likely a package string, poor for what I need.
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Hmm, found enough crap to fine out your not a complete troll, also found out you really dont seem to care about childrens rights, you value parental rights more, and you seem to think kids are not people to, and need to be treated as such, you seem to view kids as property.
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On 2005-06-22 06:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't need to re-explain my self, because there are many posts on here that I have. So I'm not going to go over it again for a 17 year old or anyone else for that matter. Do some searching and find my old posts if you want me explanation. I am very content with what I do. My family is of no concern to you. They are not an issue here.I have seen kids 9 months later and have gotten hugs and thanks. All the crap you spew does not change that fact. I have seen the change in some of these kids.
I will always look in on your BS Board, but will only respond when I feel it is needed.
THE ONE WHO CARES :wave: "
You make money out of the suffering and abuse of children. How much lower can you go?
"Hugs and thanks"... because they knew that any negativity will be met with further abuse. Or because they were already broken down by the gulag.
You are a criminal. And you will pay for your crimes, eventually.
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On 2005-06-22 06:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't need to re-explain my self, because there are many posts on here that I have. So I'm not going to go over it again for a 17 year old or anyone else for that matter. Do some searching and find my old posts if you want me explanation. I am very content with what I do. My family is of no concern to you. They are not an issue here.I have seen kids 9 months later and have gotten hugs and thanks. All the crap you spew does not change that fact. I have seen the change in some of these kids.
I will always look in on your BS Board, but will only respond when I feel it is needed.
THE ONE WHO CARES :wave: "
Dude, you are a fucking loser. Why do you even come here, what's the point? May you rot in hell.
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please dont answer me, the question is rhetorical. I think we've heard enough of your bullshit already.
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hehe, we give almost as much verbal abuse to these guys as they get at the camps.
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On 2005-06-22 06:54:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Hmm, found enough crap to fine out your not a complete troll, also found out you really dont seem to care about childrens rights, you value parental rights more, and you seem to think kids are not people to, and need to be treated as such, you seem to view kids as property."
You should realize I don't consider children to have rights, only the parent. In my business, whomever has the money is in charge, and parents have money, not kids. I really like to go visit the facilities with the teens like liked me, I appreciate that a lot when they say thank you. Usually they are fairly brainwashed, so I get my wish, which causes me to feel better about my pathetic life for a few days. I have kidnapped many kids, some for free even, and the majority of them end up thanking me. You just don't understand, I really am a good person. Why do I come here to this board? Simple. Because I can't get enough of you teens! I love you guys, in fact, I [ireally[/i] love you guys, wink wink! :wave:
THE ONE WHO CARES
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haha, oh nice... very good, maybe that will teach him not to post anon.
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The last post was by some imposter idiot!!As most of you are!! I care for every kid I transport and you don't need to believe it, because I know in my heart I care and help.
So F-off. I will be back when another idiot post comes up that I can't hold back and have to say something. You are all lost!
The one who cares
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The last post was by some imposter idiot!!As most of you are!! I care for every kid I transport and you don't need to believe it, because I know in my heart I care and help.
So F-off. I will be back when another idiot post comes up that I can't hold back and have to say something. You are all lost!
The one who cares
Well, again, a attack, and a generality, no support, no comments, vague, very vague, I looked up some of your old posts man, and their all vauge, you never support a single thing you say. Accually we do need to believe you care because you are in custody of these kids, you could hurt them, rape them, scar them, do all sorts of things, you need to be trusted because of what you do, and you have shown us nothing to trust you with. What you say is like some one hitting some one with a truck while trying to avoid a dog. "I know in my heart I was trying to help." but he still killed some one.
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On 2005-06-22 08:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The last post was by some imposter idiot!!As most of you are!! I care for every kid I transport and you don't need to believe it, because I know in my heart I care and help.
So F-off. I will be back when another idiot post comes up that I can't hold back and have to say something. You are all lost!
The one who cares "
You kidnap children out of their beds in the middle of the night, after which you cuff them, mace them, or intimidate them into compliance. After all this, you transport them to gulags to be abused and brainwashed.
There is nothing caring or helpful about that. You must be an incredibly delusional person to believe you are helping anyone but your bank account. You are a criminal, nothing more. And eventually, you will get what you deserve-- time behind bars.
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On 2005-06-22 08:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The last post was by some imposter idiot!!As most of you are!! I care for every kid I transport and you don't need to believe it, because I know in my heart I care and help.
So F-off. I will be back when another idiot post comes up that I can't hold back and have to say something. You are all lost!
The one who cares "
Idiot? Smart enough to push your buttons. Actually, I think our OWK troller is pretty near dead on correct.
Dude, you don't _care_ about these kids! You don't even know them! You're living a sad, pathetic illusion that's plain and clear to everyone but you. You're in essentially the same racket as Maurey Povich and Dr. Phil, only on a far, far lower level and pay scale. You like to pretend you're some kind of wonderful hero and you like dealing w/ kids who are intimidated and scrambled into feeding your illusion.
But, at the end of the day, you're nothing but a paid thug. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison
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I explain to each child that thier parents are scared for them and that they have chosen for them to get help. The child can come with us without cuffs if they just follow my directions.
It of course is imtimadating and scary to each child just being a strange person in thier room. I don't need to bully anyone. It is all about care and compasion with me and my company. I don't use any weapons or even have any. As I said 98% of the time they come without cuffs and I can usually have a pretty good talk with the kids in the 6-8 hours or more that I do get to know them. I also have spoken in length with the parents about thier child so I can try to understand them as much as possible, and thus try to council them on the trip. It is not a pretty job, but yes thier are allot of transporters that use cuffs as procedure. It is not our policy. It is already probbably the most difficult day of the childs life. I am the one who cares.
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On 2005-06-22 11:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I explain to each child that thier parents are scared for them and that they have chosen for them to get help. The child can come with us without cuffs if they just follow my directions.
It of course is imtimadating and scary to each child just being a strange person in thier room. I don't need to bully anyone. It is all about care and compasion with me and my company. I don't use any weapons or even have any. As I said 98% of the time they come without cuffs and I can usually have a pretty good talk with the kids in the 6-8 hours or more that I do get to know them. I also have spoken in length with the parents about thier child so I can try to understand them as much as possible, and thus try to council them on the trip. It is not a pretty job, but yes thier are allot of transporters that use cuffs as procedure. It is not our policy. It is already probbably the most difficult day of the childs life. I am the one who cares."
One Who Kidnaps, you are a real loser. You HURT and ABUSE children to feed your delusions of being "helpful" or "compassionate". There is nothing compassionate or helpful about what you're doing.
You bully these kids all the time. Bullying comes in many forms, not only physical. You intimidate them and threaten them with physical violence. That is considered bullying.
You kidnap children. You should be behind bars. And stay there for a long, long time.
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Yay, he finally tried to defend him self, your coming along troll, keep it up, and we might not have to use the cattle prod. Well then, what do you do if the child does not want to come? What do you do if its obvious the parents are way out of line, what do you do if you find in the 6 to 8 hours that you spend with this kid that he is emotionally scared, what do you do if you find out he is normal and its not his fault and he truely has been abused and you realize your only going to make it worse? hmm? you people keep with the plan, you dont know commpassion, if you knew commpassion you would be happly killing your selfs for your transgressions against people. you still did not tell us where you stand on child rights.
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I explain to each child that thier parents are scared for them and that they have chosen for them to get help. The child can come with us without cuffs if they just follow my directions.
It of course is imtimadating and scary to each child just being a strange person in thier room. I don't need to bully anyone. It is all about care and compasion with me and my company. I don't use any weapons or even have any. As I said 98% of the time they come without cuffs and I can usually have a pretty good talk with the kids in the 6-8 hours or more that I do get to know them. I also have spoken in length with the parents about thier child so I can try to understand them as much as possible, and thus try to council them on the trip. It is not a pretty job, but yes thier are allot of transporters that use cuffs as procedure. It is not our policy. It is already probbably the most difficult day of the childs life. I am the one who cares.
vague-a-riffic!
BTW, do you even realize what youre doing psychologically? "Your mommy and daddy are scared for you, you need help, they sent me to take you somewhere". That is going to terrify the shit out of any child. PLUS, being late at night and with you basically invading their safety zone, their room, with parental permission, theyre more than likely too scared to think about anything.
So, yeah, you drag a scared and disoriented kid somewhere. Congratulations, jackass.
Incase you forgot, dumbass, the issue we bring up is the programs you take kids to, and how they operate, and what goes on. You're just a cog in the machine, and youre obviously only that. You repeat "I am the one who cares" like parroted program-speak you must have learned in a seminar, or made up yourself to feel good about yourself and what you do.
Getting a hug in 9 months doesnt mean shit. Do you even have the ability to comprehend what we're saying when we say "THE PROGRAMS ABUSE AND BRAINWASH THE CHILDREN. THEY ARE EMOTIONALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY FUCKED UP BY THEM. THEY ARE MADE TO BE AFRAID TO SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE PROGRAM BECUASE THEY ARE PUNISHED FOR DOING SO!".
They wont tell you shit if they are abused because they know that if they do they'll be punished for it. God, didnt you pick up on the fact that EVERYONE is told "the kid will lie to get out" upon program entry, regardless of why they went there? That really should be VERY fishy if you went to the program for reasons that had nothing to do with lying, especially if its a voluntary case.
But, well, you dont care. You belive all the press releases and bullshit from the programs, believe in what you do, and you get reinforcement from yourself and others because you dont want to think otherwise, youd never entertain the possibility of it, and terrified children hug you and act glad to see you because they dont want to be hurt anymore.
You might not be as bad as the people who actually hurt those kids, but you are a thug who kidnaps children and takes them to people who will hurt them, regardless of if you know about it or not.Here's freedom to him who would read;
Here's freedom to him who would write;
None ever feared that the truth should be heard,
But them that the truth would indict.
--author unknown (circa 1914)
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God has laid out a plan for all of us and there is nothing we can do to alter it.
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On 2005-06-22 17:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"God has laid out a plan for all of us and there is nothing we can do to alter it."
:wstupid:
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God has laid out a plan for all of us and there is nothing we can do to alter it.
Filthy Heritic, I swear to God if I find out who posted that I will rip you a new one! I cannont stand that dirty stinking perdestionationism, look at it this way. If good has a plan, then nothing we do matters, if nothing we do matter than we dont have a reason for living which is not in the bible. Also if predestionationism is correct then we are robots for jesus, with programming and everything, if we are robots then God does not truely love us, becaus he can have some one else praise him, why would he deal with all the crap we put him through other wise. You people that say things like that piss me off, because your so wrong!
...
Im sorry... that really a hot button issue with me...
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Been debating this in my head for awhile... Like sometimes I think, I don't know if it's God or a higher power, the stars or just destiny, or =will=, but sometimes I wonder if I was meant to go to lockdown for some specific reason, like how Burroughs went to Los Alamos (when it was a boy's ranch school) I think in the twenties or thirties before it became nuke research center for atomic bombs '42. Maybe it's just all part of the training camp- we're taught to fear our enemies, good vs evil dual, which side are you on? But shit, I would have never found out about lockdowns if I didn't go there. I would have never reaffirmed my stance on human rights if I never had to undergo that torture, but yet no one should have to endure that, so was it really necessary in my case? Soon as I got out I read Berkman's Prison Memoirs, in fact it was really one of the first books I ever read and actually absorbed. He was in for fourteen years! But I wonder what I could have done had I never been locked up? How much more confident I'd be in myself- I wouldn't have Provo back problems either, or recurring nightmares, so I'd probably have more energy. But everything happens for a reason. the boy I met once and totally connected with died last month from an accidental gunshot wound to the head just weeks before his 21st. it just misfired. Does everything really happen for a reason? That's how Joan went out which got old Bill writing in the first place. Does everthing happen for a reason? Does God or whatever have a preplanned agenda for our lives, and we're all just puppets on a string? Are we really all that brainwashed that we ignore all the subtle subliminal suggestions pressuring us into our decisions? What am I supposed to do invest in a tin-foil hat? Children dying of cancer- Is that part of God's plan? Kids being harassed in 24/7 lockdown, is that part of God's plan? Holocaust has a secure place in the language when it refers to the massive destruction of humans by other humans. I have almost every Program Kid tell me that imprisonment is worse than death. If I was going to be taken again, I would risk it all to get away, whatever route OCH-bi means enter the road, which means die. All part of God's plan, my man. Then he puts on a new DVD.
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***And to that GUY who kidnaps kids: Have you no talent? Or do you just get a rush being in a teenager's room and watching them get dressed at dawn?
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On 2005-06-22 11:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
The child can come with us without cuffs if they just follow my directions.
Ok, let's try that logic in similar scenareos.
"Give me $1,000,000 and I won't kick your ass". = extortion.
"Just let me hit it and I won't blow your brains out" = rape
"Just come along quietly and I won't cuff you" = kidnapping.
Look, there's no getting around the simple fact that you take these kids against their will, cuffed and dusted if they won't go along. And you have stated before that some of the places you take them are abusive; that you dissagree w/ the placements. So you're telling a bald faced lie when you assure them that it's for their own good. You don't even know these kids when you kidnap them. You just assume that the parents know what they're doing, despite glaring evidence to the contrary.
Look, why don't you just get a job euthenizing unwanted puppies and kittens. It would certainly be a more honest way to make a living.
Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth; you don't know what life is worth;.......If you know what life is worth, you will look for your's on earth.
--Bob Marley
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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On 2005-06-22 17:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"God has laid out a plan for all of us and there is nothing we can do to alter it."
Then why do anything?
Seriously, I think when people say "It's all in God's plan" is code for "Sit down and shut up, this is the way it's going to be" or "just get over it."
Note that when God wanted the Turks off the holy land, he (according to the clerics) needed all kinds of help and sacrifice from us mere humans. But when those humans wanted some freedom, to keep the product of their labours or to not have to share their brides w/ the nobles, all that was "all in god's plan." So now God's plan for these kids is to go through hell to get them to quit annoying or frightening their parents. To the kids they say "it's all in god's plan for you" (suck it up!). But the parents they get the other stock response, "God needs plenty of help (and cash, btw) from you in order to carry out his plan."
This God character seems a little shady to me. Seems to rely a lot on double binds and guilt trips.
When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco. Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.
1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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Saying that god laid out a plan is the most useless statement to make!
Because, see, no matter what you do, think, or feel, youre just following his plan!
You are, Ginger, I am, OWC is, the kids in the programs do, including those who fail or succeed, and the abuse is all part of the plan to.
So, basically, its saying "keep doing whatever the fuck youre doing, god approves".
:roll: We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs
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There is a verse in the Bible.
"I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future."
I want it noted, as the person who most likely has the most theological knowledge on the board (unless some one is hideing a masters of divinity somewhere) that yes, God has plans for us, but they are not as some one seems to think THE thing that is going to happen to you, you have the choice to go along with the plans or not to, we are seintent human beings, with knowledge and a soul given to us by God, we are unlike any other creature on Earth because of this, and because God loves us so much we get to choice our own destiny, its called free will.
When parents start forcing us to behave the way we want things like these camps and schools, think about it, if God started forcing us to do things, what terrable things would happen? Some people willingly submit them selfs to God so he can use them more directly, yet his actions are always moving through people that dont want to help him like a undercurrent. Think of a kind word you said to some one, or when you helped some one out, basicly whenever you indirectly helped some one that could of been God.
Yes, God is all powerful, he can do whatever he wants, be he loves us, so he lets us make our own mistakes, then if we come to him, he helps us out of those mistakes, but we must come of our own free will!!!
You, anon, were sent to lock down because your parents exersiced their free will to send you there, God does have a plan, but we are not pupets, we can work by our selfs, we can do by our selfs, but its not the best way to do so. Children dieing or beening sent off is not part of Gods plan, its a example of this corupt world, and corupt people that are working on their free will.
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Myself, I don't see it as God's plan, that people suffer the indignities and pains, life so often dishes out; but rather, that He is able to turn these negative things into strengths and blessings.
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Your the man buzzkill, good summary.
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I found out about the lockdowns without having to go through one. A lot of my friends were having conniptions and afraid for one of their friends that got sent, so I started digging.
So no, you don't have to get sent to one to learn about it and learn that there's a problem with it.
I became stronger than I was before I was raped by all the hard work I had to do to recover from the rape. That doesn't mean the rapist did me any favors. I could have gotten the very same strength from putting the same effort into developing strength of character.
You can learn about combat and come out a tough and skilled soldier by going in with a hundred comrades in arms and being one of only ten that survive a hell battlefield---the surviving veterans of Omaha Beach in Normandy on D-Day are some tough sons-of-bitches.
Or you can learn about combat at Coronado as part of SEAL training--also tough, also selective, also weeds out a lot who can't hack it or whose bodies fail them. But the ones who don't make it rarely die, and the ones who are good but would have simply been unlucky in battle survive and learn. End result is more surviving tough sons-of-bitches.
(At Coronado, you can ring the bell and go any time you want to leave. It's hell on earth, but it's all strictly voluntary hell for people who want to serve badly enough, and think they have the physical and mental ability, to save the lives of others who would have died going in their place.)
There are character building experiences that *don't* leave you scarred that are just as effective as the ones that do.
Those of you who come out of the lockdowns and heal and make yourselves over into better people are just doing an exemplary job of making lemonade from lemons.
Timoclea
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My whole point with that is as a strong survivor of some bad shit, never let anyone try to sell you the bullshit that the person who hurt you was doing you some kind of favor.
Your strength is a testimony to *your* will and effort to overcome the bad shit.
The predator who sunk you in the bad shit gets no credit whatsoever for *your* will and *your* hard work amd *your* compassion that you somehow kept alive.
The predator is just another sadistic scumbag in a world that already has way too many of those, trying to justify his evil behavior by taking credit for *your* good work.
It's a con job. Yet another one. Don't be drawn into it.
Timoclea
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On 2005-06-23 05:57:00, OverLordd wrote:
"I want it noted, as the person who most likely has the most theological knowledge on the board (unless some one is hideing a masters of divinity somewhere) that yes, God has plans for us,"
I thought I read in another post that you are 17, if so, what you said above is a very arrogant statement to make. I don't mean to give you shit, just a reality check. You greatly underestimate the amount of wisdom on these boards. Maybe I misunderstood you...?
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Yes, I am 17, but I was one of the formost theolgically adept student at my old school, before I graduated. I am also the most knowledageable at my church for my age grounp, I consitantly discuss such subjects with college professors I am firends with, and I and a friend are working on editing one of their papers. Its a hobby, somthing I am very involved in. I am guessing that there are no people very knowledageable in theology here, while I'm guessing, I think its a decent guess considering there is a topic about how to mainline smack. While this may not be a good support for my guess, but I think im kinda safe.
Its possable that I came across rude, and I apologise if I did, I ment no slight to any one on this board or any knowledge they may hold. I believ I am a expert, or close to a expert in this feild, and if some one knows more than I do, I gladly defer to said person. Thanks for checking me, some times I can come across mean or rude when I dont mean to.
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On 2005-06-23 12:08:00, OverLordd wrote:
"I am guessing that there are no people very knowledageable in theology here, while I'm guessing, I think its a decent guess considering there is a topic about how to mainline smack. While this may not be a good support for my guess, but I think im kinda safe."
You couldn't be more wrong.
Look around the forums more, there are literally thousands of posts about theology. You can't take every thread seriously like the heroin one, it's just for shits and giggles.
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Look around the forums more, there are literally thousands of posts about theology. You can't take every thread seriously like the heroin one, it's just for shits and giggles.
I have personally seen ver little of these, all I see is the basic cult bashing stuff, ex stuff on mormons, im talking the stuff like Christology, studies on the nature of God, man, and sin, if you could direct me to anything like that I would greatly apreshate it, I believe you are more knowledgeable about this forum, so if you could help me that would rock.
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On 2005-06-23 12:08:00, OverLordd wrote:
I am guessing that there are no people very knowledageable in theology here, while I'm guessing, I think its a decent guess considering there is a topic about how to mainline smack. While this may not be a good support for my guess, but I think im kinda safe.
Yeah, that is a bad indicator. If you get to know old junkies, you'll soon discover that many of them are among the smartest and most well read people around. For some, lucidity and prescience generate a need for analgesic.
Aside from that, there are well over 1000 people registered here. I don't know how many individual actually post or how often. But you'd be surprised at the diversity.
Personally, I don't put much stock in formal divinity training. You're only studying what others have believed. You may become an absolute master at it while failing consistently to take in all that nature and real life have to offer. Not saying you have done that or will do that. Just that formal education about religion, all by itself, doesn't mean much. The scribes and Saducees(sp?) and Pharisees(sp?) were highly adept at divinity studies. But they absolutely sucked at spirituality and goodness.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Mark Twain
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The scribes and Saducees(sp?) and Pharisees(sp?) were highly adept at divinity studies. But they absolutely sucked at spirituality and goodness.
Your absolutely right.
Yeah, that is a bad indicator. If you get to know old junkies, you'll soon discover that many of them are among the smartest and most well read people around. For some, lucidity and prescience generate a need for analgesic.
I supose I need to rethink my view on this.
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On 2005-06-23 12:27:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Look around the forums more, there are literally thousands of posts about theology. You can't take every thread seriously like the heroin one, it's just for shits and giggles.
I have personally seen ver little of these, all I see is the basic cult bashing stuff, ex stuff on mormons, im talking the stuff like Christology, studies on the nature of God, man, and sin, if you could direct me to anything like that I would greatly apreshate it, I believe you are more knowledgeable about this forum, so if you could help me that would rock."
Just search. Or start a new thread, and if anyone finds it interesting they might stop by. :wink:
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You probably won't find a lot of play on the nitty gritty minutiae of Christian theology. However, several of the older dudes are very well read on a broad spectrum of religious beliefs. Anon's right. Post a thread in, say, Open Free For All or Tacitus Realm (all religion is politics, after all) and you may find some interesting discussion.
Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian
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There's tons of spiritual and religious smack users out there. People can be on drugs and still funtion perfectly fine in society, hold a job, raise a family, study theology, and do lots of good for the world. I think it's important to tell people how to safely use drugs, because if they're going to do it, they're going to do it. Free will. I think I'm getting it now. That's why lockdowns fail as institutions towards change, because they go against free will, which =is= God's will (or the will of whichever force that brought us here.) That force can't just take away all lockdowns in one big swoop from the stars because that's what it means to be conscious- to open our eyes to injustice. We want so badly to believe the things we wish were true- this program will save your child, there's no abuse, there's no war, no problem, everything's fine- that we ignore the TRUTH and allow the atrocities to continue. How many parents are so desperate that they let the program administrators just take over? The universe can't solve our problems for us or resolve everything into a sin-free happy-go-lucky world, because then we'd cease to exist. Conflict is the only thing keeping us around- friction, heat, life, but it all needs to keep a proper yinyang balance. Which is why we need to keep these places in check, because if it gets out of hand in either direction, it'll throw the whole sphere off. It seems to all make sense. just can't be expressed that easily. Thanks to everyone for your input. This is a great discussion
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There are some theological question marks (by that I mean ify statements) in what you said, but your basicly along the right lines in my view.
The only thing I would take issue with you about is that you seem to be looking more for balance than to do what is right.
I think lockdowns fail as instiutions to change because they are inhrently bad, and things that are inherently bad or evil fail over time. But your right, they do seem to go against the nature of humanity.
And about that force taking things away, that kinda grated on me, remember, God can do what he likes, he is God, you know all powerful and all that, he choices not to, I think, because it was humanities choice to start these things so we have to live with the consiquence.
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I'm a new user. I'm here because I recently became aware of Tranquility bay, and have been doing some research on that, and other 'Intervention centers'
to say that I'm quietly horrified is something of an understatement but... I digress.
I've read 10 pages of attack, denial, insult, and idiocy. Very few posts are lucid or worth reading. As a new user here I know that is going to sound harsh, but it's simply my opinion. Yours may differ.
If you're a survivor, congratulations. I hope you are able to piece back together your life, and mogve on from whatever damage was done to you.
If you survived and have something positive to say about your experience, I would be glad to speak with you, and discuss all that has happened.
Personally I believe people who sign their posts with comments such as: 'The one who cares' are showing a huge amount of ego, and self importance. To those people I would suggest that they look at their own motivations very closely.
Why is that important? Ultimately everything in life comes down to a decision. Yes or no. You will do something or you will not. You choose to make a decision which has a consequence in some way shape or form.
You choose to take drugs. You choose to commit suicide, you choose to be a positive role model, you choose to be gainfully employed... Whatever it is that you do, you choose to do that. No one forces you, or coerces you.
Even if such coercion was used, it's still YOUR choice to allow that to happen. Nothing happens without your consent, nothing at all. Except...
Except for those who are given no options. Those forced into decisions that they would otherwise not make for themselves. Those individuals forced into programs where they are actively brainwashed by others.
What gives anyone the right to brainwash another? To force them to think in a style and manner of anothers choosing?
See? There's that word once more. Choice. Except it's not yours, it's someone else's. Someone else wants you to do X, when you want to do Y.
Since when is a parent allowed to treat their child as they wish?
If you have a child it does NOT allow you to treat that life form in any manner you desire. Physical abuse is illegal, so why is mental abuse not illegal? *newsflash* it is. The only proviso here is proving that mental abuse.
To those who would subjugate others for their own ends, I would simply say this. Pray to Hell or whatever deity of your choice, that your brainwashing and psychological abuse works, because if it does not?
It will come back to haunt you. And you'll be made to answer for your deeds. If you do not understand what I am speaking about you may wish to find a dictionary and look up a word you seem to misunderstand.
Justice.
What you do to others without their consent is not just, and nothing you say changes that.
People commit crimes, and as a result are judged by society. If you 'intervene' in a family crisis simply because a parent does not like how their child is developing, you are in the wrong. If a child shows homosexual tendencies, it's that childs choice to do so. You cannot intervene, and subjugate because you feel like.
If a child drinks or smokes, then they and the parents can seek counselling. If they still refuse to change it's their CHOICE. The same as it's your choice to go play in traffic or not.
If choice is removed from us, what else is left?
End monologue.
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::claps quietly enjoying the monologue:: :smile:
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From the article:
The New York Times last month, former interrogators said in interviews that doctors, who may have been either psychiatrists or
psychologists, counseled them on how to use a detainee's fears and longings to increase distress.
July 6, 2005
Psychologists Warned on Role in Detentions
By NEIL A. LEWIS
WASHINGTON, July 5 - The American Psychological Association, responding to reports that some of its members may have advised officials on how to conduct harsh interrogations of detainees, issued a report Tuesday telling its members of the ethical dangers of such activities.
The report by a group convened to study the ethical boundaries for psychologists at places like the detainment center at Guantánamo Bay,
Cuba, concluded that it was acceptable to act as behavioral consultants to interrogators of the prisoners from Afghanistan who are held there.
The report said the psychologists should not use a detainee's medical information "to the detriment and safety of an individual's well-
being." It also said that psychologists serving as consultants to interrogations involving national security should be "mindful of factors unique to these roles and contexts that require special ethical consideration."
The report thus appears to avoid explicit answers to questions as to whether psychologists may advise interrogators on how to increase stress on detainees to make them more cooperative if the advice is not based on medical files but only on observation of the detainees.
The report comes after accounts from former interrogators at Guantánamo who said that doctors had advised them on how to "break" the detainees and make them more cooperative. In an article in The New York Times last month, former interrogators said in interviews that doctors, who may have been either psychiatrists or
psychologists, counseled them on how to use a detainee's fears and longings to increase distress. One example was taking advantage of a
prisoner's fear of the dark, which was known from his medical records.
The report, which has been formally adopted by the organization, comes as some American lawyers who are representing detainees have begun to gather the names of the military doctors who have served as part of Behavioral Science Consultation Teams at Guantánamo. The teams, which are known informally as biscuit teams, were typically
composed of a psychologist, a psychiatrist and a medical assistant.
The purpose of finding out the doctors' names, the lawyers say, is to bring ethics complaints against them before civilian professional
ethics boards in their home states.
The task force that produced the report by the American Psychological Association included military psychologists, among them an officer
who helps run the Army's psychological warfare program at Fort Bragg, N.C.
The report was prepared when the group's officials said they realized that their ethics codes did not explicitly address the issue. At the same time, officials of the American Psychiatric Association said there was no doubt that its members may not ethically engage in the
kind of behavior described by the former interrogators.
The report said that psychologists may not engage in torture or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. But in seeming to refer to the situations reported at Guantánamo, which might fall short of torture or cruel treatment, it said only that they "require special ethical consideration."
Leonard S. Rubenstein, executive director of Physicians for Human Rights, said the report is not explicit enough in setting ethical
boundaries.
"It says psychologists shouldn't engage in torture, but we know that rhetoric like that is not effective," he said. "In view of what has
happened at places like Guantánamo, we need clarity, and what's lacking here is an explicit commitment not to participate in coercive
interrogations."
Copyright 2005 The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/06/politics/06gitmo.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/06/politics/06gitmo.html)?
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On 2005-07-06 19:17:00, Deborah wrote:
doctors had advised them on how to "break" the detainees and make them more cooperative.
Schwartz? Riddel? Newton? DuPont? Who are we talking about here?An Animated Cartoon Theology:
1. People are animals.
2. The body is mortal and subject to incredible pain.
3. Life is antagonistic to the living.
4. The flesh can be sawed, crushed, frozen, stretched, burned, bombed, and plucked for music.
5. The dumb are abused by the smart and the smart destroyed by their own cunning.
6. The small are tortured by the large and the large destroyed by their own momentum.
7. We are able to walk on air, but only as long as our illusion supports us.
-- E. L. Doctorow "The Book of Daniel"
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At times like these, when ppl laugh at the news and take the comics seriously, it might be wise to look to fiction for insight. Go and rent a copy of Stephen King's Carrie for an angle on social pressure and shame to which we all can relate. (That's why it was a bestseller and then a blockbuster movie)
When elephants ? ght, it is the grass that suffers.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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it's that very social pressure which forces kids to conform in lockdown. If it was just a room with me and a bunch of suits, I wouldn't have cared, but having all the other kids see you crying in obs--- it's humiliating.