Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: leleNtom on June 13, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
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CSA HELPS.
whatever kid has to asay about it is fine... if you have been through the school. if your just repeating what you have heard from some one else or read from something... you dont know what your talking about. :smile:
beating kids... DSS does random check ups and not once has there been evidence of a beaten kid. the stories or false. they come from resentment and anger from being sent there... i know because I lied and spread lies about my school too, until i opened up and allowed myself to change. truthfully, no one gets beat. some kids may not like being there, hell i didnt. i wanted to be home, but fact still remains that the reason im not on drugs now and on death row like i was 4 years ago, is because of that school and myself. and no im not brain washed... im just one of the few here that has a clue and speaks the truth. go ahead and say what you want.. i could care less, my school isnt ever going to be shut down because they dont do anything for people to shut them down.
:smile:
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On 2005-06-13 10:18:00, luvlife128 wrote:
"but fact still remains that the reason im not on drugs now and on death row like i was 4 years ago, is because of that school and myself. and no im not brain washed... "
So, let me get this straight, you were on Death Row 4 years ago? I didn't realize people were allowed to leave death row. You are a liar, or an idiot. :wstupid: :rofl:
WWASPIE trolls are out in full force, don't buy into their bullshit, it's not true. You can troll the boards as much as you want WWASP employee/advocate/brainwashee, but no one believes you. 'Your school' huh? WWSAP employees trolling the board cracks me up. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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So which is it, are you a liar, or just stupid?
How long have you been employed with WWASP luvlife128 ? Worried about your job lately? :skull:
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to bad i dont nor ever did work there. i graduated. and im not a liar or an idiot... its a figment of speach " death row" meaning i was heading towards death. nice maturaity with calling names!! i can really see where your headed.
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On 2005-06-13 12:08:00, luvlife128 wrote:
"to bad i dont nor ever did work there. i graduated. and im not a liar or an idiot... its a figment of speach " death row" meaning i was heading towards death. nice maturaity with calling names!! i can really see where your headed."
to
too?
speach
speech?
maturaity
maturity?
Seems as if you received a quality education at 'your' WWASP gulag. Good luck, you'll need it.
:wave:
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On 2005-06-13 12:08:00, luvlife128 wrote:
"CSA HELPS. "
According to this statement, it is you who is the liar. Since you hate lies so much, maybe you should check these stories out:
http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carol ... ticle.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carolina_springs_academy_article.html)
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rolina.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/carolina.htm)
http://www.free-times.com/archive/cover ... chool.html (http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/defiantschool.html)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... prings.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/stories/carolina-springs.htm)
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these were written by who? uh yeha... kids who are still pissed for being sent there.. again i dont know what happend before i was sent so i dont know... but no one was beaten while i was there... ok
lets give a writing class... ever heard of typos? mistakes? its ok... we dont all have to be perfect
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Ohhhhh... everyone but you is a liar. I get it now. And you were able to freely walk the entire facility, and supervise everything that went on during your stay? That's amazing!
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who said i did n e of that? and said i wasnt a liar... you did... that never came out of my mouth.. but actually being since i was there for so long i did get to do that. again... did you go the csa?
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Im asking how you could possibly know what happens on the entire facility? You think they beat kids out in the middle of everyone?
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the facilty is one long room... yes you can see everything.. see you dont even know...
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I heard that kids get beat, so they must get beat, even though no one ever saw it or heard it. They have a secret room that is sound proofed and every inspector or whatever that goes there doesn't know about it, it's that secret. I read it in the paper, so it's gotta be true!! :rofl:
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Yep, you convinced me.. those pesky NEWSPAPERS... all out to shut down our PRECIOUS WWASP programs. Hehe, get a life, you spent 31 months locked up and now you're on here defending the program. SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS?
we all do.... :idea:
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On 2005-06-13 13:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I heard that kids get beat, so they must get beat, even though no one ever saw it or heard it. They have a secret room that is sound proofed and every inspector or whatever that goes there doesn't know about it, it's that secret. I read it in the paper, so it's gotta be true!! :rofl: "
http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carol ... ticle.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carolina_springs_academy_article.html)
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rolina.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/carolina.htm)
http://www.free-times.com/archive/cover ... chool.html (http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/defiantschool.html)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... prings.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/stories/carolina-springs.htm)
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On 2005-06-13 12:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-06-13 12:08:00, luvlife128 wrote:
"CSA HELPS. "
According to this statement, it is you who is the liar. Since you hate lies so much, maybe you should check these stories out:
http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carol ... ticle.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carolina_springs_academy_article.html)
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rolina.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/carolina.htm)
http://www.free-times.com/archive/cover ... chool.html (http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/defiantschool.html)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... prings.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/stories/carolina-springs.htm) "
ok i dont know who u r but if u havent realized the media isnt always truthful or reliable. They do whatever they have to do to keep peoples attention and make money. I am a very good freind of luvlife128 and i think that she is right, you are still pissed off about being sent there. I have read those articles, and a couple things every now and then are true, but most of it, especially about the abuse is severly exaggerated and twisted to make it sound like its so bad there. Ya it sucks sumtimes, but it is worth it. I know maybe 1 out of every 30 people who leave csa and have crappy relationships with their parents. It is not the programs fault whether u have a bad relationship with your parents or a good one, it is your choice. I choose to get along with and love my parents, and i know that u probably hate that word if ur a grad against CSA, but if u think about it, they are 100% right about that. You choose every single thing in your life, including how u act and feel and what your life becomes. So think about that, if u give a damn about my point of view, b/c i understand some of what you say, but some is just uneducated and one sided blab. Ill admit that i am so on wwasps side, what they taught me helped me to save my life. They didnt save it, i took the teachings and i saved it myself with their help and support.
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On 2005-06-13 15:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-06-13 12:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-06-13 12:08:00, luvlife128 wrote:
"CSA HELPS. "
According to this statement, it is you who is the liar. Since you hate lies so much, maybe you should check these stories out:
http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carol ... ticle.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carolina_springs_academy_article.html)
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rolina.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/carolina.htm)
http://www.free-times.com/archive/cover ... chool.html (http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/defiantschool.html)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... prings.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/stories/carolina-springs.htm) "
ok i dont know who u r but if u havent realized the media isnt always truthful or reliable. They do whatever they have to do to keep peoples attention and make money. I am a very good freind of luvlife128 and i think that she is right, you are still pissed off about being sent there. I have read those articles, and a couple things every now and then are true, but most of it, especially about the abuse is severly exaggerated and twisted to make it sound like its so bad there. Ya it sucks sumtimes, but it is worth it. I know maybe 1 out of every 30 people who leave csa and have crappy relationships with their parents. It is not the programs fault whether u have a bad relationship with your parents or a good one, it is your choice. I choose to get along with and love my parents, and i know that u probably hate that word if ur a grad against CSA, but if u think about it, they are 100% right about that. You choose every single thing in your life, including how u act and feel and what your life becomes. So think about that, if u give a damn about my point of view, b/c i understand some of what you say, but some is just uneducated and one sided blab. Ill admit that i am so on wwasps side, what they taught me helped me to save my life. They didnt save it, i took the teachings and i saved it myself with their help and support."
Are you capable of typing a single sentence without throwing in the program ideology? "WWASP saved my life", "there are no accidents"...
WWASP is an abusive treatment cult. You are a proof-- you have been completely sucked into it. No, it didn't help you with your issues, because being beaten, cut off from your family, not being allowed to speak for as long as 8-10 hours a day, and going through Lifespring seminars-- all these things have no therapeutic value, and they only serve to break the captive down. And once they are broken, the new ideology can be installed: The program saved my life. There is no abuse. There are no accidents.
CSA, like all the other gulags, is abusive. That is a fact.
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http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carol ... ticle.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carolina_springs_academy_article.html)
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rolina.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/carolina.htm)
http://www.free-times.com/archive/cover ... chool.html (http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/defiantschool.html)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... prings.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/stories/carolina-springs.htm)
These aren't even published by 'the big media', these are first person stories by people who have been to CSA and families involved. Why don't you read them first before trying to discredit people.
WWASP sure has given you the ability to dismiss criticism of the program without thinking.
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Why are you putting in a link to a competing teen program referral agency?
...helpyouteen.com ???
They also own the intrepid net reporter site.
Ooops, forgot, there are newspaper articles and websites out there that spout terms like "alleged" "it is our opinion" and other nonsense phrases that if you aren't paying attention, might look real.
At least the kids that graduated know what's really going on. They aren't posting sites to bring anyone into their schools, are they? Am I?
PHX
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On 2005-06-13 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carolina_springs_academy_article.html
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rolina.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/carolina.htm)
http://www.free-times.com/archive/cover ... chool.html (http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/defiantschool.html)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... prings.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/stories/carolina-springs.htm)
These aren't even published by 'the big media', these are first person stories by people who have been to CSA and families involved. Why don't you read them first before trying to discredit people.
WWASP sure has given you the ability to dismiss criticism of the program without thinking. "
i totally agree. The media will do anything to stay in business, especially lie
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im defending what i know and saw to be true. i just spoke with one of the other grads who graduated 9 months ago... he did tell me that some of the things you people are saying did happen. so i admit, i dont know everything that goes on it the dorm. im the girls faciclity, no one was beat. but i cant account for the boys. i dont however think its highly doubtful that the boys endured beatings, since i could talk to them, they would have told me. but w/e
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On 2005-06-13 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"the facilty is one long room... yes you can see everything.. see you dont even know..."
obviously youve never been there. I was and its not, put ur brains where ur mouth is
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he did tell me that some of the things you people are saying did happen. so i admit, i dont know everything that goes on it the dorm.
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PHX get the fuck out of here, who are you anyways? A couple program trolls show up and you are all over this as if it vindicates you.. hahahahaha you programmies crack me up
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On 2005-06-13 16:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"he did tell me that some of the things you people are saying did happen. so i admit, i dont know everything that goes on it the dorm.
The "St. Patrick's Day Parade" was not the first visit by state officials to Abbeville County and would not be the last. Opened in the fall of 1998, Carolina Springs was pressed into service to accept a large number of children from Morava Academy in Brno, Czech Republic when Czech State Police arrested two Americans and two Czech employees for Child Torture and Violation of the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child.
In response to the arrests, WWASP rallied parents and accused the Czech authorities of "reverting to their communist past", with majority owner Ralph Atkin noting that dealing with the Czech's was "like dealing with the KGB." WWASP closed the school and transferred children to other of its facilities, a large number of them to Carolina Springs.
CSA received its first cease and desist order from the Department of Social Services on October 30, 1998 and the program has been in turmoil since that time. While the Department of Social Services recently agreed to continue its hearing requesting an injunction, the Department of Environmental Control issued its own cease and desist as has the County of Abbeville.
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On 2005-06-13 16:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-13 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/carolina_springs_academy_article.html
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... rolina.htm (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/carolina.htm)
http://www.free-times.com/archive/cover ... chool.html (http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/defiantschool.html)
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... prings.htm (http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancipation/stories/carolina-springs.htm)
These aren't even published by 'the big media', these are first person stories by people who have been to CSA and families involved. Why don't you read them first before trying to discredit people.
WWASP sure has given you the ability to dismiss criticism of the program without thinking. "
i totally agree. The media will do anything to stay in business, especially lie"
SO WILL WWASP!!!!
:skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull:
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On 2005-06-13 16:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why are you putting in a link to a competing teen program referral agency?
...helpyouteen.com ???
They also own the intrepid net reporter site.
Ooops, forgot, there are newspaper articles and websites out there that spout terms like "alleged" "it is our opinion" and other nonsense phrases that if you aren't paying attention, might look real.
At least the kids that graduated know what's really going on. They aren't posting sites to bring anyone into their schools, are they? Am I?
PHX
"
The kids that graduated know only what WWASP wants them to know. JUST LIKE YOU.
The abuse happened. And it's still happening to more than 2,000 teens trapped in WWASP's clutches.
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i was there 31 months... the girls is one long building stupid
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On 2005-06-13 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-06-13 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"the facilty is one long room... yes you can see everything.. see you dont even know..."
obviously youve never been there. I was and its not, put ur brains where ur mouth is "
again.... so you know.. i was the 31 months.. the girls dorm is one long builing with 3 separate rooms that are not enclosed by doors.... its all open. no student and student are to be left alone and no staff and student are to be left alone.... in other words no ONE ON ONE... so thanks... but yeah i think i would knw more recently how the facility looks.
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spent 31 months locked in a gulag and when you get out you go online trying to convince people CSA is great... think ya picked the wrong board! no one believs you :wstupid:
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On 2005-06-14 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"spent 31 months locked in a gulag and when you get out you go online trying to convince people CSA is great... think ya picked the wrong board! no one believs you :wstupid: "
i wouldnt call it locked up... but im not trying convince anyone anything... i get yall dont believe what program kids are saying... we dont believe you. so whats the point ni fightin? im probably talking to a 15 year old for all i know.
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15? :rofl:
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I am curious graduate, why are you so obsessed with the program now that you are out?
Are you still under contract with your parents?
Do you have friends who are not in the program?
How old are you?
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On 2005-06-14 09:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"15? :rofl: "
you 15? im surprised.. your older than i thought
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To whoever started this post, who ever you are, luvlife128, im going to hunt you down, and hurt you very very badly, (Well not really but its what I wanna do) those bastards stole my friend out from under, broke her, and hurt her, then they droped her right back into a abusinve and pointless home sistuation, your a lier and a bad one at that. And it will be shut down, if they did anything or not, it really dose not matter, but I will take them out, because they hurt me and my friend. If it takes my whole life, their going down. And any one that supports them will be out on the street with them, no one hurts me or my friends and gets away with it. You my friend, will pay for what you have said, because one day you will get up and realize its all a lie.
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-15 06:26 ]
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ok phsyco adolf hitler re-encarnet
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On 2005-06-15 06:21:00, OverLordd wrote:
"To whoever started this post, who ever you are, luvlife128, im going to hunt you down, and hurt you very very badly, (Well not really but its what I wanna do) those bastards stole my friend out from under, broke her, and hurt her, then they droped her right back into a abusinve and pointless home sistuation, your a lier and a bad one at that. And it will be shut down, if they did anything or not, it really dose not matter, but I will take them out, because they hurt me and my friend. If it takes my whole life, their going down. And any one that supports them will be out on the street with them, no one hurts me or my friends and gets away with it. You my friend, will pay for what you have said, because one day you will get up and realize its all a lie.This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-15 06:26 ]"
overllord? ha!
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Sue Scheff is just as guilty as WWASPS/Robert Lichfield & company are.
Her daughter was in CSA, and she sued WWASPS for abuse after getting a virtually free tuition because of all the referrals she did for Teen Help and WWASPS.
Now she refers to her own abusive neglectful behavior modification, positive peer culture, and thought reform "specialty schools."
Behavior modification/positive peer culture/thought reform programs don't work. They are actually more damaging than anything else. There have been psychological studies done by professionals. (not quacks) The program didn't save anyone and being locked up and re-wired is NOT help. It?s physical and emotional prison.
Perhaps this website might help you see some real light ? there have been program survivors who have gone there to gain recovery from their damaging experiences:
http://wellspringretreat.org/pro/signs.html (http://wellspringretreat.org/pro/signs.html)
When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"
-- Quentin Crisp
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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i think that everyone has their own opinions and that unless uve been to a program recently u have no room to talk. because u havent eye witnessed, first handedly, and proven, what some teens went thru. so for those who think they know and dont.. shut the hell up. cuz u aint gotta clue as to what some people went thru
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves
--Ronald Reagan
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So, you didn't attend Lifespring via WWASPS seminars?
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
--Author: Sir William Drummond
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is that what the seminars used to be called? lifespring? just wondering.... well there not called that if thats what it is, its called premier now.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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On 2005-06-15 09:55:00, leleNtom wrote:
"is that what the seminars used to be called? lifespring? just wondering.... well there not called that if thats what it is, its called premier now.I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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The name doesn't matter. Lifespring, Resource Realizations, Premier Education-- it's all the same thing. WWASP is a cult based on the Lifespring cult.
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TASKS/Resource Realizations/Discovery/Focus/Premier Education, other programs based on such things are all administered by people with a background in est/Lifespring, a labeled cult. Does the name David Gilcrease mean anything to you?
Do some research. :idea: The Church says that the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church.
--Ferdinand Magellan, Portuguese and Spanish explorer
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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On 2005-06-15 10:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-15 09:55:00, leleNtom wrote:
"is that what the seminars used to be called? lifespring? just wondering.... well there not called that if thats what it is, its called premier now.I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
-- Hunter S. Thompson
"
The name doesn't matter. Lifespring, Resource Realizations, Premier Education-- it's all the same thing. WWASP is a cult based on the Lifespring cult. "
Actually Lifespring is a cult based on the est cult. :wink: I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
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WHY DO ppl refer it to a cult... there are no devils and satanic rituals
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
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Cults have been defined as "groups that often exploit members psychologically and/or financially, typically by making members comply with leadership?s demands through certain types of psychological manipulation, popularly called mind control, and through the inculcation of deep-seated anxious dependency on the group and its leaders." (Chambers, Langone, Dole, Grice, "The Group Psychological Abuse Scale: A Measure of the Varieties of Cultic Abuse," Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 11, No.1, 1994, page 105)
The term "mind control," as used above, is very important in understanding what a cult is. Psychologist Robert Lifton identified eight characteristics of mind control, and these are helpful in determining whether or not a group fits the mold of a cult. They are explained below.
Milieu Control - Cults seek control over the members' flow of information and social interaction.
Examples: Sandy is ordered or strongly urged to read only those materials that are produced or sanctioned by the group. Or Steven is urged not to go home for Christmas because there's too much work to do for God at the group's facility, and because his family isn't part of the "true way" and could taint him.
Mystical Manipulation - This involves attributing supernatural influences where they are not present or arranging things to appear miraculous. This is enhanced by the milieu control because other ideas -- ideas that could call into question what seems supernatural -- are absent. Not only that, but because the member is talking only to others in the cult, the supposed miraculous is not only unquestioned, but even praised.
Example: Angela leaves a group and has an auto accident. At the next service Pastor Thomas announces to the congregation that this was God's punishment for Angela's leaving.
Demand for Purity - Unreasonable rules and unreachable standards are imposed upon the member. The world is depicted as black and white with little room for personal decisions based on trained conscience. The individual is more willing to submit to this because outsiders that might question such standards are absent due to the milieu control, and the mystical manipulation makes the group seem to have proof for the validity of its guidelines. Example: Janet is awakened at 3 a.m. to meditate, and when she protests, she is asked, "What's more important; God or sleep?"
Cult of Confession - Sins or wrongdoings, as defined by the group, are to be confessed immediately and thoroughly even though they may be, in reality, quite trivial. An environment of confession is set up by the unreasonable demand for purity.
Example: After several hours of intense guilt, James confesses to his pastor that he had angry feelings toward his group leader and is required to ask forgiveness before the entire congregation.
The Sacred Science - The teachings of the group are viewed as the ultimate, unwavering truth. It is too sacred to be called into question, and those who do are branded as "heretics," "reprobates," "worldly," etc. Mystical manipulation is often an important step in deceiving the member into seeing the doctrine as sacred.
Example: Dan?s guru claims his methods are the fastest (sometimes he says the only) way to achieve enlightenment.
Loading the Language - Lifton calls these "thought-terminating clichés." They are catch phrases loaded with connotation used to stop critical thinking. If an argument is made against the teachings of the group, it and the person who said it may be labeled so that the group members don't consider the merit of the argument.
Example: Everyone who leaves Jerry's group is referred to as a "fall-away," and their criticisms against the group are never addressed.
Doctrine Over Person - This characteristic might also be called "Sacred Science" Over Person because that is the doctrine to which it refers. The group's doctrine is always preferred even if it contradicts personal experience or factual history. The individual is only valued in so far as they conform to the doctrine of the group.
Examples: Jim is in a church that teaches that anyone who isn't a member of their congregation is not a true Christian. At work he meets Amanda who is a very devout Christian and seems to be well-founded in her theology, and she seems to live out what she speaks. Still, he doesn't date her because he knows she can't be a true believer if she doesn't attend his church. Or, Karen's group teaches its members that pain is only an illusion so even though she feels as if she has a headache, she knows that she really doesn't.
Dispensing of Existence - The cult decides who has the right to exist. This can be literal, but it is generally figurative. Outsiders are considered unenlightened or evil and so they can and should be ignored and, sometimes, even mistreated. The sacred science viewpoint helps make it more acceptable to treat people in this manner because the sacred teachings of the group advocate this view.
Examples: Ronald refuses to spend time with any of his old friends because they are evil. When he does talk to them he will only talk about the group and is quick to remind them that they will be judged. Or, Brandy tells her family not to contact her anymore, claiming they have been cruel and now refuse to own up to that mistreatment. She didn't believe them to be cruel until the group influenced her to cut them off.
In short, a cult is an organization that uses these methods to recruit, control, manipulate, and abuse individuals.
It is important to note that not every cult uses all of these techniques; sometimes only a few are masterfully executed to manipulate and unduly influence members. An understanding of these processes can help protect you and your family from its influence. For a more detailed study of this subject, see "Thought Reform in Cults and Abusive Relationships."
http://wellspringretreat.org/families/define.html (http://wellspringretreat.org/families/define.html)
Why should we take advice on sex from the Pope? If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
--Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
i'd like to change good and evil to truth and lies
If only there were liars somewhere, insidiously committing lies, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing honesty and dishonesty cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
--Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
who is telling the truth in all these post... just think about it.. i think most of this isnt going to get anywhere... even if its the most credidted and believeable story. no matter how many facts... i mean look how many there are now... with this many it is possible to get wwasp shut down, sue, and send people to jail. i mean kids say they have witnesses, thats sure as as hell enough proof. but really. its not, or something major would have allready been done. the site is a like its own war against who can be more dramatic over the so called " abuse " in wwasp programs. i wish that everyone who had a story and was telling the truth, that something was done about it, but they obvioulsy dont care that much to sue, or else I would have never went to program.
If it is believed that... elementary schools will be better managed by the governor and council, the commissioners of the literary fund or any other general authority of the government than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.
Thomas Jefferson
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o0o0o0o so i guess i should be brainwashed and all cult like now.. worshipping the program and calling it my savior. theres too much time between seminars to get brainwashed... plus most of the kids dont even get through it... so its hard to get brainwashed or whatever it is that people think happen to them.
Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
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o0 i forgot to add.. those people have to be reallllllllly good to brainwash a student, none of the staff or majorit never went to college... even the facilitators arent great at what they do.. ive never had a degree in phsycology or socialogy, and i could probably do their job. its just giving the facts of todays wwasp programs, as in right here and now programs... its hard to believe it is a cult. but if thats how people see it, then well thats how they see it
If quitting drugs means joining the war on terrorism, does this portend the fire bombing of Amsterdamn ?
--Felton Manifestation
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On 2005-06-15 10:18:00, leleNtom wrote:
"o0o0o0o so i guess i should be brainwashed and all cult like now.. worshipping the program and calling it my savior. theres too much time between seminars to get brainwashed... plus most of the kids dont even get through it... so its hard to get brainwashed or whatever it is that people think happen to them.Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
"
It's not hard at all. In fact, it's very easy. They do it to the parents in only 3 short days.
You claim the program helped you and that tehre is no abuse despite evidence to the contrary. You continue to spout WWASPie propanganda. I'm no professional, but I'd say you're brainwashed. WWASP is an abusive cult. That is a fact.
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no i wouldnt say brainwashed.... i dont use their terms or follow their rules for after grads. i just know what im talking about. its like if some one were spreading stuff about u or ur frend or family... ud stick up for them. did they brain wash u? no... the probablt taught u that if some one speaks about u in the wrong way u stick up for your self, right?
America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg
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Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Eight Criteria for Thought Reform
1. Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
2. Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.
3. Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
4. Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
5. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
6. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
7. Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
8. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. (Lifton, 1989)
Sounds like WWASP, alright...
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but why? i mean i get that thats probably what they are doing... but for what motive... seems like unlike some cults and brainwashing systems, they are doing it for the benifit of kids who are struggling. why else? its not to cover anything up, if it were it would be hipocracy. its like them hitting me, and then me going thru a seminar and tellin me i need to talk about my issues. being hit is an issue. does this make sense?
who needs regular piss tests more than a former blowski who has his finger on the button?
--Chuck Beyer
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On 2005-06-15 10:30:00, leleNtom wrote:
"but why? i mean i get that thats probably what they are doing... but for what motive... seems like unlike some cults and brainwashing systems, they are doing it for the benifit of kids who are struggling. why else? its not to cover anything up, if it were it would be hipocracy. its like them hitting me, and then me going thru a seminar and tellin me i need to talk about my issues. being hit is an issue. does this make sense?who needs regular piss tests more than a former blowski who has his finger on the button?
--Chuck Beyer
"
No, it doesn't make much sense, but I've heard dozens of stories like that from various WWASP facilities. A kid gets beaten up by staff (oh, I'm sorry, "restrained" :roll: ), and the staff tells the kid, "it's your fault. If you would have chosen to follow the rules, this wouldn't have happened". This is the true manipulation. Not the complaints the kids make.
You ask why they do all this? Follow the money. Lichfield and co. are greedy pigs. They're after money and power. They don't want to help anyone but their bank accounts.
As for the program helping kids... I doubt it very much. The porgram teaches them to be compliant and believe in the program and defend it. Nothing else. I don't know about you, but that doesn't fall in line with my definition of "help".
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i do agree on the money thing.. i always felt that way... it seemed like some one was always rollin in with a new mercedes, but we still had mold on the bathroom wall, or not enough sports equiptment for the girls side. but i still think that what the program did ( my school at least ) wasnt harmful. i cant call n e one a liar who hae stories from before i went to csa or from any other school. alli can tell u is what happend while i was there, with or without the brain washing that everyone thinks went on, no one was abused. thats honest truth. i do know girls who you would consider programized, u know calls out there peers and thinks they will be living by the program their whole life, im not one of the, and i never was. i never followed their rules and i was never beaten or anything like that. i graduated because i complied not applied as they would say. i just did what i had to, to go home. but again, i wasnt the type of girl who was into the program, neither are my parents, but are family life is doing ok. i have no scars. except that i have been gone for so long i have a lot of cathcing up to do on the new styles and music and materialist things like that.
The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist
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Why? So after holding teens against there will for YEARS, they get free advertising machines who spout their propoganda for years. They get parents who refer other kids to the program, they get the appearance of a succesful program. The glazed over stare of a upper-level student and their parents at PC1 is enough proof. You've seen the look if you've graduated. The look on parents' faces when they have an independent thought and think, 'hmm- maybe this is all bullshit'. Until a group of peers reassures the parent the are doing the right thing. It's all a big scam to make money.
Tell me this since you were at the program, as was I. Why does the program cost so much money? Did you receive what you would consider 'treatment'? Did you see a therapist, a psychiatrist, a doctor? Why would spending so much time isolated from you family help you acclimate when you return home?
The entire program is setup as a system of control, including the seminars. Why are the seminars spaced so infrequently? Because it costs your parents MORE MONEY! Think about it. The seminars are a joke, the people that 'give themselves' to the seminars are retarded. I've been through them, I know they are a joke. To some people they aren't a joke, and take it all to heart. These are definitely 'brainwashed' people. The parents who decide to become facilitators.
I went through my first discovery with David Gilcrease as the facilitator, and that guy is crazy. I'd love to run into that fucker sometime in public, he humiliated everyone in the room. :skull: The next facilitator didn't, and I easily made it through. So it all depends on a lot of things, but I know for a fact, from first hand experience, these programs are just a scam.
They cam about in response to parents demands for 'tougher' programs, based not on reality and scientific evidence of what helps teens. No, this is based on Lifespringn theory of mind control. Why do you think they call it 'behavior modification' and not treatment? Because they cant call it treatment, because it isnt. WWASP is a business, only interested in making more money. They will take in any kid they can find, no matter what. That kid will be stuck there for a couple years if there parents can afford it, and come out worse than they went in usually. Worse because they learned to adapt to a program, not the REAL SYSTEM we all live in as adults. It puts them at a distinct disadvantage, and the program becomes all they know. You need to learn to cope in the real world, because its reality. The program is not reality, its a place for rich parents to send their problem kids. What happens when a facility has 500 kids and maybe 2 dozen local staff 'without college degrees and training'? Abuse happens, these type of facilities attract sadistic people. :skull:
We see recent graduates every once in a while come on these boards, and they all sound like you. I wish you good luck in your life, because after being there for a long time you'll need it.
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probably so... i know as im out on my own without the damn contract ill probably be doin what i gotta to make up for the 3 years lost in the csa. im ok with accepting the program is wack and full of it,,, i always thought that. but i dont agree with the physical abuse. becase it never happend, articles or not... its just didnt
It only takes a little prescience to understand that we're all fair game for the deeds we condone.
--Antigen
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i dont agree with the physical abuse. becase it never happend, articles or not... its just didnt
One of the things the program does is make its captives accept WWASP's definition of abuse, which is different from that used in the real world. Many things that happen in WWASP facilities, and which WWASP doesn't consider abuse, are considered abuse in the real world.
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On 2005-06-15 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
i dont agree with the physical abuse. becase it never happend, articles or not... its just didnt
One of the things the program does is make its captives accept WWASP's definition of abuse, which is different from that used in the real world. Many things that happen in WWASP facilities, and which WWASP doesn't consider abuse, are considered abuse in the real world. "
i know what the fuck abuse is.. physical,verbal,emotional,sexual... that didnt happen there. no one ever laid a hand well staff didnt i cant say girls didnt. in the time i was there only 2 girls got in a fight and it was like a slap in the face... thats not a fight, i been in plenty and slappin isnt fighting. and no staff was hit, maybe pushed... if anything the pathetic staff memebers endured more abuseHomeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.
--Sisterbluerose
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On 2005-06-15 10:54:00, leleNtom wrote:
"
On 2005-06-15 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
i dont agree with the physical abuse. becase it never happend, articles or not... its just didnt
One of the things the program does is make its captives accept WWASP's definition of abuse, which is different from that used in the real world. Many things that happen in WWASP facilities, and which WWASP doesn't consider abuse, are considered abuse in the real world. "
i know what the fuck abuse is.. physical,verbal,emotional,sexual... that didnt happen there. no one ever laid a hand well staff didnt i cant say girls didnt. in the time i was there only 2 girls got in a fight and it was like a slap in the face... thats not a fight, i been in plenty and slappin isnt fighting. and no staff was hit, maybe pushed... if anything the pathetic staff memebers endured more abuseHomeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.
--Sisterbluerose
"
Considering what I know about the program, I find that very hard to believe. What about restraints? the OP building? I'm sure WWASP didn't just do away with that, tah twould break the entire program apart.
You were just don't that OP was only for violent kids who tried to hurt themselves, I guess. And according to the program, anyone who doesn't comply with the rules in trying to hurt him/her self :roll: So in their twisted mind, it actually makes sense. But that doesn't mean it's okay or that it's not abuse.
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yeah someone said they take kids who get cat 3,4 and 5's to o.p. they dont. actually they chilled out alot with the o.p they changed what it was called and eveything. to make it sound less intimidating. but maybe.. maybe 5 girls went while i was there, and they were the same girls who kept tryin to flippin kill peopl. damn phsycos.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
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ur the first person i actually believe. ur not as freaking crazy as some ppl on here who like curse and freak out if you try to say its all bs.
i respect what ur saying. im sorry that happened to you. if something like that would have happenedi would have left, ra, even if i was sent to tranquility bay. i would have been hollering for every ounce of life i had in me. no matter what they did. no body touches me.. i dont even let my mom touch me good or badly. i really am sorry that happened to u.. War is God?s way of teaching Americans geography.
--Ambrose Bierce (died 1914)
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On 2005-06-15 10:18:00, leleNtom wrote:
"o0o0o0o so i guess i should be brainwashed and all cult like now.. worshipping the program and calling it my savior. theres too much time between seminars to get brainwashed... plus most of the kids dont even get through it... so its hard to get brainwashed or whatever it is that people think happen to them.Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
"
Says the person who started a thread titled: CSA RULES and continues to blindly defend said program. for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.
--Alexander Hamilton
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one girl told me im lucky she didnt have long nails cuz if she did she would have mutalated my pretty face. sick.. im glad im out. im visisting the school in august.. maybe.. but it seems like all the people i liked who were str8 wont be there, so i might not go
Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison
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On 2005-06-15 11:14:00, 001010 wrote:
"
On 2005-06-15 10:18:00, leleNtom wrote:
"o0o0o0o so i guess i should be brainwashed and all cult like now.. worshipping the program and calling it my savior. theres too much time between seminars to get brainwashed... plus most of the kids dont even get through it... so its hard to get brainwashed or whatever it is that people think happen to them.Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
"
Says the person who started a thread titled: CSA RULES and continues to blindly defend said program. for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.
--Alexander Hamilton
"
see your the type of people i dont like talking to on here.. u dont uderstand anything... maybe if u openend ur eyes and saw what im writing.. u could see there is a difference. i defend what i know im ny heart to be right... like EXIT PLAN who seems to understand better than you do... but i still know that i have things i need to deal with becuase of post traumatic strees from being there 3 years. so stay out of what u dont knowA dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
about it.
--GW Büsh, Business Week, July 30, 2001
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On 2005-06-15 11:15:00, leleNtom wrote:
"one girl told me im lucky she didnt have long nails cuz if she did she would have mutalated my pretty face. sick.. im glad im out. im visisting the school in august.. maybe.. but it seems like all the people i liked who were str8 wont be there, so i might not goOf all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison
"
:exclaim: "Vacillation between speaking very negatively and very positively about the cultic group [program] or individual."
http://wellspringretreat.org/pro/signs.html (http://wellspringretreat.org/pro/signs.html)Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. Lewis, God In The Dock
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DAMN.. i KNEW A girl who pulled her hair out too and i mean eye lashes eye brows chunks of her hair.. she made upper level and went on every kind of probatiob possible one day, ad decided to get out her razor and slice her amrs, wrists, neck ,and legs. after that we could only have electrical.. she didnt get sent n e where her parents pulled her. they were pissed they put her on probabtion and no one would talk to this girl. they knew she was crazy like that. i was the only who would sit down to try and calm her down. her parents were totally mad when they found out no one liked her but me and a few other girls.... so yeah the program can be messed up
Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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On 2005-06-15 11:20:00, 001010 wrote:
"
On 2005-06-15 11:15:00, leleNtom wrote:
"one girl told me im lucky she didnt have long nails cuz if she did she would have mutalated my pretty face. sick.. im glad im out. im visisting the school in august.. maybe.. but it seems like all the people i liked who were str8 wont be there, so i might not goOf all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison
"
:exclaim: "Vacillation between speaking very negatively and very positively about the cultic group [program] or individual."
http://wellspringretreat.org/pro/signs.html (http://wellspringretreat.org/pro/signs.html)Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. Lewis, God In The Dock
"
what>?The drug war places Leo in a round room and instructs him to piss in a corner.
--Antigen
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so0o00o true. i stil feel like for everyone else time moved on and so did they, but even though im 17. since time stopped when i was sent there and i was 14 and still feel like im 14 in a way. damn... trippy
The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist
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hey i gotta dip.... ill be on later i guess. but i think i got enuff help for one day, or really the last 3 years. thanks again though i do appreciate it
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy
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On 2005-06-15 11:26:00, leleNtom wrote:
"so0o00o true. i stil feel like for everyone else time moved on and so did they, but even though im 17. since time stopped when i was sent there and i was 14 and still feel like im 14 in a way. damn... trippyThe mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist
"
I definitely know the feeling.
Take care, leleNtom.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. The limit of oppression is determined by the extent of the endurance of the oppressed.
--Frederick Douglas
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what about those kids who are still in csa and arent doing n e thing to get out. like the le vel one refusers. will they be programized when they leave or are they the ones who remain straight. it seems like the more they refuse the more they put on the seminars and stuff. but then again the more they refuse the less anyone pays attention to them.
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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what about those kids who are still in csa and arent doing n e thing to get out. like the le vel one refusers. will they be programized when they leave or are they the ones who remain straight. it seems like the more they refuse the more they put on the seminars and stuff. but then again the more they refuse the less anyone pays attention to them.
I say God bless them, because these are the real children, those ones with spirits that do not bend and break. Those that did not bend over and take it up the ass by the propaganda, like the graduates did. Hopefully they will eventually turn 18 and sue the school for blocking their mental, social, and physical development as well as whatever they want to sue for. I look up to these kids, because thats what they still are, kids, and they wont let any one take that from them, even some bitch with a t-shirt that says "Councilor" or what have you. Its the people that alowed them selfs to break that I feel sorry for.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-06-16 06:51 ]
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On 2005-06-16 05:24:00, leleNtom wrote:
"what about those kids who are still in csa and arent doing n e thing to get out. like the le vel one refusers. will they be programized when they leave or are they the ones who remain straight. it seems like the more they refuse the more they put on the seminars and stuff. but then again the more they refuse the less anyone pays attention to them.I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
"
Of course what happens around them soaks in inevitably. Just like children growing up watching a father abuse a mother or sibling. What's harmful is that these are the kids that usually get come down on the hardest for non-conformity to the program. In some of the harder overseas WWASPS programs, those kids are put in solitary confinement, pepper-sprayed, hog-tied, or made to stay in OP for days at a time. The emotional torture of social isolation-punishment, or separation from the group (the feeling of being completely alone) is very damaging to a child's psyche. Will they be programmed? Programmed to hate themselves and feel deep-rooted guilt for not being a part of the group - which lays the ground work for self-destructive or violent behavior. So yes, they will be. There are many different facets to the psychological and physical abuses that occur in the program environment.
So, both types are broken, just in different ways. Their survival instincts kick in, and some kids conform, while others fight it tooth and nail. That depends on all kinds of things, like age, emotional stability, personality, adaptability?etc.
In the end I think understanding what happened to us is the most valuable thing we can learn. You're very lucky to be able to learn this so soon after it happened to you, leleNtom. I have two friends that were in the program at the same time that I was. Both went through exit counseling afterward. I always remind them how fortunate they were to have been given that opportunity.
Take care, leleNtom.
Drug War tells us everyone's body is common property
to be managed by the central government for our own
good, even if it kills us. This is Communism!
Drug Policy Foundation of Texas
--Bob Ramsey
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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THANKS.. Though i dont think any one was hogt tied or pepper sprayed, un fortunately.. i think maybe they dshould have. it would have shut them up from compaining all the damn time and bitchin about life. oh well. im glasdi never went to op
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I have a video tape in my possession of Randall Hinton (former staff at WWASPS's Tranquility Bay in Jamaica) admitting to hog-tying and pepper-spraying a boy whose name I won't mention in the public viewing area.
The tape is a British documentary film, and is very real.
The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles.
--John Adams, U.S. President
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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ok in tranquility bay... i dont get what yall dont get that that DIDNT happend where i went... but i have repeatedly said.. maybe in other schools.
The people's right to change what does not work is one of the greatest
principles in our system of government
--Richard M. Nixon
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On 2005-06-16 07:57:00, leleNtom wrote:
"ok in tranquility bay... i dont get what yall dont get that that DIDNT happend where i went... but i have repeatedly said.. maybe in other schools.The people's right to change what does not work is one of the greatest
principles in our system of government
--Richard M. Nixon
"
I'm not saying that happened at CSA. However, CSA is a WWASPS program. You don't have to endure the most extreme form of abuse in order to suffer. The psychological aspect of all of the programs is harmful enough.
The fact remains, they are all owned and/or marketed by Robet Lichfield, Ken Kay, (WWASPS president) and the whole David Gilcrease crew.
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
--Unknown
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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The fact remains, they are all owned and/or marketed by Robet Lichfield, Ken Kay, (WWASPS president) and the whole David Gilcrease crew.
where are these people located?May your days be joyously challenging and your words artfully true.
--Ginger Warbis
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On 2005-06-16 08:40:00, OverLordd wrote:
"The fact remains, they are all owned and/or marketed by Robet Lichfield, Ken Kay, (WWASPS president) and the whole David Gilcrease crew.
where are these people located?May your days be joyously challenging and your words artfully true.
--Ginger Warbis
"
I don't know where they are, but I know the world will be a better place when these people are no longer with us. :skull: :skull: :skull:
I never had the pleasure of meeting Robert or Ken, but I can tell you Gilcrease is pure evil. This is from personal experience. He is scum, waste of space who makes a living fucking with teenagers psyches. He is Charles Manson, and gets paid to do it. :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull:
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As Mao Tse-tung once said the secret is simply to convince the ?patient? he was sick and that they had the cure.[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2005-06-16 09:01 ]
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On 2005-06-16 08:40:00, OverLordd wrote:
"The fact remains, they are all owned and/or marketed by Robet Lichfield, Ken Kay, (WWASPS president) and the whole David Gilcrease crew.
where are these people located?May your days be joyously challenging and your words artfully true.
--Ginger Warbis
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Southern Utah mostly, though David Gilcrease and his crew tour all the facilities. If I remember rightly, I think he lives in another state. Arizona?
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On 2005-06-16 07:55:00, 001010 wrote:
"I have a video tape in my possession of Randall Hinton (former staff at WWASPS's Tranquility Bay in Jamaica) admitting to hog-tying and pepper-spraying a boy whose name I won't mention in the public viewing area.
The tape is a British documentary film, and is very real."
What is it called? What TV company made it and when?
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I have a 10-minute clip from the film interviewing the mother and then Randall Hinton. It was a British TV documentary, I don't know the name of it. I never got to see it in it's entirety, I wish I had the whole thing. I want to say 1999, but again, I'm not sure. The portion I have was sent to me personally by the mother.
Infidel: In New York, one who does not believe in the Christian religion; in Constantinople, one who does.
--Ambrose Bierce
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EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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ofcourse someone from csa wouldsay that, it was the easiest of the programs, for pampered rich kids who were sent to a more comfortable strict babysitter.
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On 2005-06-16 05:24:00, leleNtom wrote:
"what about those kids who are still in csa and arent doing n e thing to get out. like the le vel one refusers. will they be programized when they leave or are they the ones who remain straight. it seems like the more they refuse the more they put on the seminars and stuff. but then again the more they refuse the less anyone pays attention to them.I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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Of course what happens around them soaks in inevitably. Just like children growing up watching a father abuse a mother or sibling. What's harmful is that these are the kids that usually get come down on the hardest for non-conformity to the program. In some of the harder overseas WWASPS programs, those kids are put in solitary confinement, pepper-sprayed, hog-tied, or made to stay in OP for days at a time. The emotional torture of social isolation-punishment, or separation from the group (the feeling of being completely alone) is very damaging to a child's psyche. Will they be programmed? Programmed to hate themselves and feel deep-rooted guilt for not being a part of the group - which lays the ground work for self-destructive or violent behavior. So yes, they will be. There are many different facets to the psychological and physical abuses that occur in the program environment.
So, both types are broken, just in different ways. Their survival instincts kick in, and some kids conform, while others fight it tooth and nail. That depends on all kinds of things, like age, emotional stability, personality, adaptability?etc.
In the end I think understanding what happened to us is the most valuable thing we can learn. You're very lucky to be able to learn this so soon after it happened to you, leleNtom. I have two friends that were in the program at the same time that I was. Both went through exit counseling afterward. I always remind them how fortunate they were to have been given that opportunity.
Flat out refusal ISN'T a viable option. Put it in martial arts terms-active resistance would be a form of Judo (supposted to be passive but actually involves using strength against your opponent)-and they have more strength and more numbers than you do. Aikido IS quite passive-bend when necessary, use the opponents force against him, and stay under the radar to avoid confrontation. That's what I did-learned to use the program jargon such as 'step left' and all the other crap. It got me out. It's been a lot of year, but the hate I have for those sadists (especially Gilcrease) isn't going away. If I believed in an afterlife of hell, I'd want him in it.
Survivor of SCL