Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 07, 2005, 09:40:00 PM
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Posted on Tue, Jun. 07, 2005
Plot to kill parents is detailed
BY SCOTT HIAASEN
shiaasen@herald.com
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Four years ago, Christopher Sutton asked a coworker how to go about hiring a hit man to kill his parents.
Last summer, he talked about it again -- just weeks before a gunman killed Sutton's mother and left his father blind.
Court records released Monday suggest that Sutton planned his parents' shooting in an effort to collect their estate and satisfy a long-simmering resentment toward them after they shipped him to a controversial youth-treatment center in American Samoa.
Sutton, 26, was arrested in April on charges that he conspired with a friend, Garrett Kopp, to kill his parents. Investigators believe Kopp, 21, was the triggerman who killed 57-year-old Susan Sutton and wounded John Sutton in the couple's Coral Gables home on Aug. 22.
Sutton's girlfriend, Juliette Driscoll, told police that Sutton talked openly about his desire to have his parents killed. He assured Driscoll they would have plenty of money once his parents were dead, Driscoll told police.
Just weeks before the shooting, Sutton's father, a civil attorney, had settled a lawsuit for more than $1 million, Driscoll said.
''He said that things will be better when they're dead,'' Driscoll said. ``I knew that he was planning to kill his parents, I just didn't know when.''
Sutton made similar comments about his parents in 2000, while working at a plumbing company, said former coworker Jose Peon Jr.
''I didn't sense any joking around whatsoever,'' Peon said. ``He was dead serious.''
Driscoll said she met Sutton in 1999, just months after he returned from a traumatic 2 ½-year stint at Paradise Cove, a rigorous facility for troubled kids in Samoa that closed amid complaints of mistreatment by former residents, according to news reports.
''He would tell me about being beaten there, being hogtied,'' Driscoll said. ``He told me when he was hogtied the Samoans would feed him with their feet.''
Sutton and Driscoll visited Sutton's parents on the night of the shooting before going to a movie. Driscoll said Sutton spoke on his cellphone with Kopp that night.
Prosecutors say Kopp confessed to his role in the shooting, though the details of the confession were not released. But after his arrest, Kopp told police he did not recall talking to Sutton after the shooting.
Sutton's attorney could not be reached for comment Monday.
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OK.....Christopher was not living at home PRIOR to his going to Samoa because of threats and physical abuse on his part towards his parents. His parents had to get a restraining order against him because he was so violent BEFORE going to Samoa. He was placed in private school, other short-term programs, afforded the best therapists and was non-responsive.
Christopher only alleged wrong-doing to those who were NOT in Samoa when he was. He advocated the program to others when in the company of others who were in Samoa with him.
He is and was obviously very "sick" and, if anything, the 29 months he spent in Samoa kept his parents safer for a little longer.
BTW, the article states the program was in American Samoa...WRONG again!!!!
This should not be about bashing a program. This is about the death of a mother, permanent injury to a father not to mention the other family members involved.
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On 2005-06-07 19:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK.....Christopher was not living at home PRIOR to his going to Samoa because of threats and physical abuse on his part towards his parents. His parents had to get a restraining order against him because he was so violent BEFORE going to Samoa. He was placed in private school, other short-term programs, afforded the best therapists and was non-responsive.
How exactly do you come by this information? Are you a relative of his?
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Everybody knows Paradise Cove was an abusive program. 48 Hours and Dateline each did a segment on Paradise Cove.
Not saying it's an excuse, but if Chris Sutton says he was abused in Samoa, he would not be the first or the last kid to say that because it's the truth, kids were mistreated there.
As for reports that he promoted the program, that is par for the course. All the kids from those hellcamps support the program in order to get out or keep themselves from being sent back.
Corey Murphy was in Samoa. So was Christophe Landre. They are both dead. Victims of suicide.
:flame:
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If any good can come out of this sad story at all it might be that the prosecution (you know, the zero-tolerance law and order folks) will be emphasising how bad the abuse was in Paradise Cove because it gives him a motive.
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First, the defense will NOT be about Samoa. Second, Christopher Sutton had no fear of being sent back to Samow. He came home at age 19. He moved out shortly thereafter and was on his own EXCEPT his parents gave him $$$$$ to help him.
He had no fear of going back at all. He was not abused while there. I was there with him and very close to him when he came home and for all the following years as well as with his family.
This is not about Samoa. This is not about any programs. It is about a child who wanted his parents dead before ever being sent away and acted upon it when he returned.
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//This is not about any programs. It is about a child who wanted his parents dead before ever being sent away and acted upon it when he returned.//
This may be true. I wouldn't know. But it is apparent Paradise Cove didn't help any. Chris isn't one of their 99% satisfaction rate. Or 98, or 89 - what ever number their throwing around these days.
And another thing is true - Paradise cove was one of the more notoriously abusive and neglectful programs operated by wwasp. I have no doubt at all the boy was hog tied. No doubt in my mind he was beaten at times - and as bizarre as it is - I don't doubt they feed him with their feet, as this would be inline with the program goal of debasement and humiliation on the lower levels.
I would say the parents of this young man were done very wrong by this Program when they told them they could help such a seriously disturbed child - if what you say is true. He needed competent professional counseling to help him come to terms with his anger and aggressive tendencies. What he got, was a brutal neglectful situation, run by people with no specialized education what so ever; most with no more than high school, if you consider the locals who are the ones who deal most directly with the "students". This is exactly the kind of situation most likely to Increase and amplify his anger and aggression. And now his mom is dead and his dad blind and he is facing a forever ruined life. In My Opinion - the Program is at fault.
Yes, he might have been talking about killing before. But it was then just talk and with out his Samoan experience I 'd bet thats all it would have been - talk.
Many mentally ill kids threaten to kill their parents - and some do. But most don't. If words could kill, me and many of my friends would be dead long ago, b/c we all had kids threaten to kill us in our sleep. None of them did it. I honestly do believe had we sent them off to Samoa, some of us would be dead by now.
The Program experience is a factor - like it or not.
But let me be clear - I am not blaming the parents for sending him. I know they were lied to and lead to believe it was a wonderful program in a beautiful place and that if they trusted the Program they could save their family.
I blame the Program for so manipulating and taking advantage of parents in such distress.
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-06-08 09:16 ]
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Paradise cove...
For you people who defend this place and others, you are brainwashed. They tell you (parents of kids there) the program will save you and that if you take them out they will use drugs and eventually ruin their lives. You are a tool, a brainwashed tool but I dont blame you. They are very powerful and you were desperate. Once you berlieve this bullshit for a while its like you can never go back. That would be admitting yuo were wrong th e whole time.
Mabye chris was fucked up before he got there, but I gurantee you sending him there multiplied it times 100.
I was never beaten there, never hogtied but I lived in respect family which was next to the isolation fale
"isolation fale" I heard screams all night and I can definately say it has screwed my mind up. just like post traumatic strees syndrome that people returning from war experience. Its no different.
What I want to know is when are we all going to join together (us survivors of that place) and sue?
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hey buzzkill, you were never at this place were you.
think about it the kid is hogtied on his stomach and the
guard is sitting there. when it comes time to eat. How would he.
Chris Sutton was notorious there for standing up for himself and not taking shit from anyone. The staff there hated him because they knew at any moment he would attack them
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He had no fear of going back at all. He was not abused while there. I was there with him and very close to him when he came home and for all the following years as well as with his family.
who are you? any one that actually knew chriss has heard his stories. have you seen the pictures of him when he was there? i've talked to way too many of the kids he was there with and the stories keep coming back the same. kids from miami and other places too. i'm trying to figure out who you are 'cause i was closer than most...
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I am from Miami, and still live hereI was not a friend of his, but I knew him at paradise cove
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//think about it the kid is hogtied on his stomach and the
guard is sitting there. when it comes time to eat. How would he. //
Well I did say it sounded bizarre - and it does - but I suppose they could shove the food under his face with their feet.
I can imagine him hungry enough to eat what ever it was, how ever it was offered. And, I imagine being treated in such a degrading mannor, would have the effect of increasing his anger.
But your right - I wasn't there. I don't know for a fact any such thing happened.
How ever, I have talked to enough people who have been there, and in other wwasp programs, to find the account believable.
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I have heard similar eating stories from kids who stayed about casa By the Sea.
Thank goodness these torture camps are closed.
NEXT!
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Again, I will affirmatively state that I WAS IN SAMOA WITH CHRISTOPHER and I was EXTREMELY close to him and his family in Miami. He was NEVER violent or oppositional while in Samoa. Actually, he was very compliant. He was actually liked by the staff. His parents visited him there and spent a week at the hotel with him. He NEVER claimed to be abused in any way. He NEVER claimed to have ever been abused when he came home. PRIOR to Samoa, his parents did send him for therapists to numerous therapists, to many different programs, to public and private schools. He was not doing well with any of it.
His plan to kill his parents BEFORE he went to Samoa was NOT "JUST WORDS". He attempted to act upon it, but was unsuccessful. Had he not gone to Samoa, his mother would have probably been killed earlier.
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Have any idea why he was so set on killing his parents?
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On 2005-06-08 16:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Again, I will affirmatively state that I WAS IN SAMOA WITH CHRISTOPHER and I was EXTREMELY close to him and his family in Miami. He was NEVER violent or oppositional while in Samoa. Actually, he was very compliant. He was actually liked by the staff. His parents visited him there and spent a week at the hotel with him. He NEVER claimed to be abused in any way. He NEVER claimed to have ever been abused when he came home. PRIOR to Samoa, his parents did send him for therapists to numerous therapists, to many different programs, to public and private schools. He was not doing well with any of it.
His plan to kill his parents BEFORE he went to Samoa was NOT "JUST WORDS". He attempted to act upon it, but was unsuccessful. Had he not gone to Samoa, his mother would have probably been killed earlier."
why are you the only one who says this...? i agree with you on the fact that he had prior "issues" and had been through many schools and psych treatments. but to say that he NEVER claimed to be abused after he came home is COMPLETE bullshit...i spent 6 years with him.
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oh, and if you were extremely close with him and his family when since he's been back...do you know who i am?
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He wanted his parents money and that was his motive.
If you spent 6 years with Christopher, then I do know you. If you spent 2 years with him, I do know you. And, if you were in Samoa with him, which I doubt, you would have first hand knowledge that he was NEVER abused. If you were with him when his parents visited him, you would know he never claimed to have been abused. If you were with him when he came home, you would know he was not abused.
The important thing is not the program and not the money, but that there is NEVER an excuse for taking someone's life!!!
Almost every murderer has some "reason" why they did it....an abusive childhood...abandonment....etc. THESE ARE NOT REASONS, they are very poor excuses and excuses don't count. He murdered his mother and attempted to murder his father and would have murdered his sister had she been in the house at the time. NO REASON>>>>NO EXCUSE!!!!!
We cannot start making up excuses for people who murder others. We are very fortunate to live in a Country where we are free. I think all of us have seen or read about those much less fortunatee than we are in Countries where murder of children, babies, mothers and fathers is an everyday occurrence. We just do not go out and murder!
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On 2005-06-09 06:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"He wanted his parents money and that was his motive.
If you spent 6 years with Christopher, then I do know you. If you spent 2 years with him, I do know you. And, if you were in Samoa with him, which I doubt, you would have first hand knowledge that he was NEVER abused. If you were with him when his parents visited him, you would know he never claimed to have been abused. If you were with him when he came home, you would know he was not abused.
The important thing is not the program and not the money, but that there is NEVER an excuse for taking someone's life!!!
Almost every murderer has some "reason" why they did it....an abusive childhood...abandonment....etc. THESE ARE NOT REASONS, they are very poor excuses and excuses don't count. He murdered his mother and attempted to murder his father and would have murdered his sister had she been in the house at the time. NO REASON>>>>NO EXCUSE!!!!!
We cannot start making up excuses for people who murder others. We are very fortunate to live in a Country where we are free. I think all of us have seen or read about those much less fortunatee than we are in Countries where murder of children, babies, mothers and fathers is an everyday occurrence. We just do not go out and murder!"
dude, i'm not making up excuses..i'm just saying that you're full of shit. i've met 5 kids from samoa and/or jamaica and the stories i hear are all the same...i've been there for the discussions about it...i've been there when he talked to his family about it...i've heard about limbo... were you in his family?
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oh, and of you were really close to him, maybe you can help me out with something. who's peaches?
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WHO MURDERED CHRIS SUTTON'S SOUL?
:flame:
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I think all of us have seen or read about those much less fortunatee than we are in Countries where murder of children, babies, mothers and fathers is an everyday occurrence.
Here in LA its an everyday occurance too. :skull:
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chris apparently had no soul or conscience
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If the Sutton's were so afraid of Chris, why didn't they get him "real" therapy instead of exiling him on an island for 2 years?
Paradise Cove was a lockdown facility for rich, mostly white kids with minor to severe behavioral problems.
At least 2 former residents committed suicide rather than be sent back by their parents.
These places are NOT club med ... any more than they are therapeutic.
They are hell.
:flame:
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Lynn Pretzfeld (sp) son was sent to Paradise Cove and used to post on the Internet about his "experience".
Another kid who was also at Paradise Cove posted about the same time, claiming one of the P. kids was involved in abducting (sometimes called "escorting") him into the program. Apparently they tried to get him on a plane and the plane's captain wouldn't let them.
Anybody else remember seeing this story? The boy was eventually transported to Utah and shipped to Samoa. Think his name was Randy.
The old Intrepid Net Reporter website had his story online. It may be still there.
:???:
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What would you have considered "real" therapy or help? They tried psychologists, psychiatrists, wilderness programs, private and public schools, in and outpatient facilities BEFORE Samoa.
Chris had written a plan to murder his parents long before being sent to Samoa. He had been seeing therapists for many years before going to Samoa.
What type of other help would you have suggested to them?
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yeah, randy was another one, he was there with chriss. i forget his last name though. i don't think i ever met him. they pretty much always send them to utah first. i know chriss was there. chriss was "unfond" of the pretzfeld boys. lynn was a major advocate for the program though, i think that's how chriss' 'rents learned about it... and yeah, they "abduct" people to get them there. chriss' story is pretty brutal, he's not a small guy and didn't go without a fight...i've heard the story corroborated by another guy who was there when chriss got nabbed
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On 2005-06-10 10:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What would you have considered "real" therapy or help? They tried psychologists, psychiatrists, wilderness programs, private and public schools, in and outpatient facilities BEFORE Samoa.
Chris had written a plan to murder his parents long before being sent to Samoa. He had been seeing therapists for many years before going to Samoa.
What type of other help would you have suggested to them?"
Imagine! One mindfuck after another and the kid still didn't unfuck himself.
I wouldn't suggest anything unless they asked me. But then, I don't have the audacity to hold myself up as an expert. The point is, at the end of the day, WWASP didn't help either. And this is typical. Ask around of people not hand picked for you by someone who stands to profit from convincing you.
Sadly, Chris Sutton is not the first Program graduate to kill his parents. And I'm guessing he won't be the last, either. I'm not a violent person myself. But the one and only time I thought seriously about beating my mother to a pulp was when, after two years in Straight and a battle in the courts to get out, she informed me that I would have to go to an intake "interview" at LIFE if I wanted my uniform so I could go to work.
God save us from those who would do anything just to be seen as doing something!
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
--Edward Everett
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Stanley Gould was the first kid who spoke out about Paradise Cove, long before Paul Richards was on 48 hours.
Paradise Cove was a hellcamp. Remember the "iso box"???
Le Tiera????
Chris Landre was one of the first kids there ... he shot himself.
Why would Chris and Corey Murphey take their own lives if he program was so great?
:flame:
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Sadly, Chris Sutton is not the first Program graduate to kill his parents. And I'm guessing he won't be the last, either.
This is so true. I'm sure there are many assaults we never hear about.
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On 2005-06-10 11:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Stanley Gould was the first kid who spoke out about Paradise Cove, long before Paul Richards was on 48 hours.
Paradise Cove was a hellcamp. Remember the "iso box"???
Le Tiera????
Chris Landre was one of the first kids there ... he shot himself.
Why would Chris and Corey Murphey take their own lives if he program was so great?
:flame:
"
i've definately heard those horror stories...chriss (sutton) went through all of it. i went to the "benefit" for chris and corey.
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Actually, the Pretzfeld boy went in as a result of hearing about it from the Sutton's. He was sent in about 4 months after Chris was.
Also, do you actually know of any other kids that killed their parents?
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On 2005-06-10 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
Also, do you actually know of any other kids that killed their parents?"
Yup. Tim Nixon beat his mother to death w/ a baseball bat then he and his brother (program graduates both, I believe) stuffed her in the trunk and went out and picked up a few friends and went joy riding.
http://thestraights.com/theprogram/suicides-page2.htm (http://thestraights.com/theprogram/suicides-page2.htm)
More often, though, kids pushed passed that point of no return will kill themselves rather than their parents. The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic
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There is a former student of Casa By The Sea on death row in Texas for his part in the murder of a mother (not his own), her son and the son's best friend.
The boy's last name is Michael Perry. His parents who adopted him at birth apparently also had Perry in and out of treatment programs like Chris Sutton before resorting to the WWASPS schools.
Is it possible these kids reach a breaking point b/c the WWASPS programs are so harsh? And what connection, if any, is there to unresolved feelings about being adopted? Seems to me both these boys had some serious issues and that the WWASPS programs did more harm than good.
:eek:
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The problem with your analogy is:
Ted Bundy, John Gacy never went to any programs, didn't know each other, were not adopted, both were convicted and sentenced to death for multiple murders.
The Menendez brothers never went to any program, but they were convicted of killing both their parents.
There must have been over 10,000 teens who have gone thru the various WWASP programs over all the years and, if 2 or 3 or 4, killed someone after, it is not enough to say it was b/c of the program.
I believe that you have to have a certain personality to murder, no conscience and no remorse.
Maybe you can blame some things on teens going to the program and maybe not, depending on how you think of them, but I do not believe any program makes you a murderer.
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Michael Perry took the stand and recanted his confession and gave a very believable explanation of what had happened - which didn't involve him committing murder.
He was convicted anyway, and now is in the appeals process.
I understand his defense team have now got the evidence to prove he could not have committed the crime he is convicted for.
My personal belief is his Casa experience predisposed him to confessing; and when arrested and interrogated, he did was he had been conditioned to do, and confessed to the charges, altho in reality he could not have committed the crime.
He has my support, and if there is anything I can do to help him, I will.
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There was no benefit for Corey Murphy. There was one in Miami for Christopher Landre.
BTW, how come Christopher's "girlfriend" knew about all this and never said anything? Where is she?
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On 2005-06-10 18:25:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"Michael Perry took the stand and recanted his confession and gave a very believable explanation of what had happened - which didn't involve him committing murder.
He was convicted anyway, and now is in the appeals process.
I understand his defense team have now got the evidence to prove he could not have committed the crime he is convicted for.
My personal belief is his Casa experience predisposed him to confessing; and when arrested and interrogated, he did was he had been conditioned to do, and confessed to the charges, altho in reality he could not have committed the crime.
He has my support, and if there is anything I can do to help him, I will.
"
Wow .. that's great BK. Please keep us posted! I remember reading about the trial ... he seemed so lost. Are you in touch with him and his family? Do they believe he is innocent?
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I have written him and got a letter back. I need to write again. I've been remiss. He would like to hear from anyone with time to write. PM or email for his address if you want it.
I understand that his parents do now compleatly support him.
If anyone has a copy of the news papaer story on his testimony and conviction, I'd like to have a copy.
I had the link, but the paper has rotated it off. I didn't have the forsight to copy and paste when I could have.
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That's good you are trying to help this young man, BK. Death row in Texas is horrible .. he needs all the support he can get.
Does he have much of a chance of getting his conviction reversed on appeal? A new trial?
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Posted: 2005-04-08 18:38:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MICHAEL PERRY To whoever this reaches :
This is Michael AKA "Romeo" speaking to you from the "Row", Texas Death Row. Unfortunately I just landed here four months ago and am finding myself wanting to expand my "relationships" your way. And so, here I am, attempting to make a connection....A little to know about me is : I'm just an easy going "catt" with nothing but love for all you "peoples" out there. And am in search for a relationship / friendship. But, considering my situation, it may be impossible, but, who knows....anything is possible...! I am 21 years old, white, male. I'm about 5'10" and 155 lbs, with gentleman way ! My looks can be a plus but I want you to know me and like me for ME, and what I represent to stand for. But, just to let you know, I was named G.Q of the centuru, LOL, just playin ! I have no photo to flatter you with at the moment but if you decide to write, I will obtain one to send to you...So until pen and paper dance again, I will be waiting in anticipation to hear from you....Please don't let my situation scare you off! The lonely gentleman, Michael, AKA Romeo.
Michael Perry 999444
Polunsky Unit
3872 Fm 350 South
Livingston Texas
77351 USA
http://www.ccadp.org/TX7.htm (http://www.ccadp.org/TX7.htm)
Michael James "Romeo" Perry showed his first outward signs of emotion Thursday, brushing away tears as his parents, from the witness stand, said
they still love the 20-year-old despite all the problems they have had raising Perry, who was convicted Monday of capital murder.
Jim and Gayle Perry adopted Michael when he was an infant.
Jim Perry, a former executive at Shell Oil, said he "absolutely" still loves Michael Perry during his testimony in the sentencing phase of the
trial.
"He's my son," he said.
Michael Perry was found guilty of killing Sandra Stotler, 50, on Oct. 24, 2001, by shooting her to death inside her home in Highland Ranch in west
Montgomery County so he could steal Stotler's red Camaro convertible.
Jim Perry said Michael was always extremely active and sometimes temperamental, even as an infant.
"I nicknamed him 'Kicker,' not because we lived in Texas but because he was always active," Jim Perry said.
"He had a temper and mood swings," Gayle Perry said of Michael as he grew into a toddler. "And when he was 3 years old, he called the fire
department and said his house was on fire."
In kindergarten and first grade, new problems arose, Gayle Perry said. "The teacher started writing notes and things," Gayle Perry recalled. "Her comment was she could tell what kind of day she would have with him by the
way he walked in the room. He would create problems in the classroom."
Later, in second grade, Michael was diagnosed with attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder, which was identified through developing
problems Michael was having at school, Perry's father said. By the fourth grade, Michael's grades began to suffer, Gayle Perry said.
"He would really do well at the first of the year, but it seemed that as he became more frustrated, he would rebel rather than express his
frustrations," Jim Perry told the court. Jim Perry said he and his wife tried everything they could, encouraging Michael's participation in soccer and baseball while also pursuing counseling, specialized curriculum at school, transfer to private schools, and anything else they thought could help Michael turn his life around.
"His behavior had become at this time very hard to control, but he was never aggressive physically against somebody," Jim Perry said. By the end of seventh grade, Michael Perry had been diagnosed with oppositional-defiant disorder and the following year with conduct disorder.
Eventually, Jim Perry said, Michael quit going to school, started running away, and his problems with the law began. As the problems escalated, Jim
Perry and his wife stepped up their response, he said, having Michael admitted to several inpatient psychiatric facilities and residential
programs for troubled teens over the years, at one point paying as much as $3,000 per month for their son's care.
"We were very happy to do it," Gayle Perry said. "I'd do it all again. We've never given up on him, and we never will." Jim Perry agreed.
"He was a difficult child to raise," he admitted, but asked the jury not to sentence his son to death. "I think he has a lot of talent and has a
lot to offer."
Gayle Perry asked for the same.
"His life has value," Gayle Perry told the jury. "I just know there's hope for a change. I know he can change, and I know he can still contribute."
Michael Perry chose not to testify in his own behalf at the sentencing phase of the trial, although he testified during the guilt/innocence phase last week.
Michael Perry was also suspected but never charged in two other murders the day Sandra Stotler was killed: those of her son, 16-year-old Adam Stotler, and his friend, 18-year-old Jeremy Richardson. Jason Burkett, also 20, is facing capital murder charges stemming from the same triple homicide. He is expected to stand trial later this year. Prosecutors say they will also seek the death penalty against Burkett if he is convicted.
Both sides in the case finished presenting testimony Thursday. Attorneys are expected to make closing arguments this morning in the 221st state District Court with Judge Suzanne Stovall presiding before the jury begins deliberations on whether to sentnece Perry to life in prison or death by lethal injection.
-----------
Source : The Courier
FYI: One of the last programs Perry was sent to was Casa By The Sea.
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The address I have is *slightly* different - but I imagan that one will work.
I was reluctant to post it for fear he might get Hate mail - and who needs that. No one, but espically not this kid.
That isn't the artical I'm looking for - but thank you.
I'm wanting the one that discribes his testimony from the stand during his trial.
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Driscoll also said she knew he was going to kill his parents. Why didn't she say anything?
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Yeah, why didn't this Driscoll person alert the authorities and save the parents?
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Dumbass. Don't believe everything you read in the paper. As her best friend, I happen to know the truth behind all this. She knew nothing about what was going to happen, other than Chriss was pissed off at his parents all the time. The papers created "comments" of hers by taking parts of her statement out of context and piecing them together to make a more interesting story. Sorry to dissapoint everyone, but Chriss did this one all on his own.
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Who are you calling a dumbass ... and why should anyone believe you?
Obviously you have some kind of an agenda.
:flame:
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Why would nyone stoop to name calling. A question was asked because of what was either said in the newspaper or because people know her. She was with him since she met him on a cruise 6 years ago. She lived with him, traveled with him, worked in his dad's office, lived in a Condo purchased for them by his parents, drove a car his parents paid for. How could she know NOTHING except "he was pissed at his parents"?
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So, the "friend" has no comment now about how her friend knew "nothing" after living with Christopher for 6 years and being intimately involved with the Sutton family.
Guess she only wanted the perks (?????) and didn't give a damn about anyone or anything. What about the planned "honeymoon" to Samoa. If Chris (or Chriss) as you put it, hated Samoa, why was he planning on going back?
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i left at the first chance i got. chriss can be and often is a very secretive person. and according to the police, was pretty much living a secret double life. and in regards to that ONCE AGAIN, if any one knows anything about peaches, i would really like to know. anyone who knows me knows that i was almost never home, between working full time and going to school full time...the time we did spend at home together, well that's my business. that and his friends were usually around.
to my best friend: thank you for sticking up for me. (not that i ever thought you wouldn't) i am happy to see the post.
as for the rest of you, don't believe everything you read in the papers. it's exactly as my friend said, they took parts from my statement, put them together and even added words. i never said nor did i know that he was going to kill his parents. i'm far away now just trying to piece the parts of my life back together. i'm extremely angry at the media for fabricating such a harmful and untrue portrayal of my statement. and causing people to think that i did know something.
i lost almost everything because of this. i love chriss and always have. i love john, susan and mis. it wasn't until much later in the relationship that we started getting "perks" and, by the way, i still had to pay my own half.
and as for the honeymoon to samoa, i always believed that going back was his way of making peace with it. i know now that peace is something that chriss will never be able to achieve. but i that's what i thought. i also believe that he wanted me to go, since samoa was such a large part of his life.
and if you have something you want to say to me, please just send me a "private message" or find the other peaches post with my e-mail. (it's in a different forum on this website
the truth of the matter is that i still don't know what to believe. i spent 6 years thinking i knew him better than most. maybe i did, maybe i didn't. right now we're going off of information from GARRETT!!!!!!! even the newspapers said the the only statements released were mine and his, and they cut out the incriminating parts where garrett confessed and pointed the finger at chriss. i've read what he said about chriss...but come on now, we're talking about garrett. anyone who has ever had the occasion to meet garrett knows what i'm talking about.
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On 2005-06-13 06:13:00, ari wrote:
"i left at the first chance i got. chriss can be and often is a very secretive person. and according to the police, was pretty much living a secret double life. and in regards to that ONCE AGAIN, if any one knows anything about peaches, i would really like to know. anyone who knows me knows that i was almost never home, between working full time and going to school full time...the time we did spend at home together, well that's my business. that and his friends were usually around.
to my best friend: thank you for sticking up for me. (not that i ever thought you wouldn't) i am happy to see the post.
as for the rest of you, don't believe everything you read in the papers. it's exactly as my friend said, they took parts from my statement, put them together and even added words. i never said nor did i know that he was going to kill his parents. i'm far away now just trying to piece the parts of my life back together. i'm extremely angry at the media for fabricating such a harmful and untrue portrayal of my statement. and causing people to think that i did know something.
i lost almost everything because of this. i love chriss and always have. i love john, susan and mis. it wasn't until much later in the relationship that we started getting "perks" and, by the way, i still had to pay my own half.
and as for the honeymoon to samoa, i always believed that going back was his way of making peace with it. i know now that peace is something that chriss will never be able to achieve. but i that's what i thought. i also believe that he wanted me to go, since samoa was such a large part of his life.
and if you have something you want to say to me, please just send me a "private message" or find the other peaches post with my e-mail. (it's in a different forum on this website)[ This Message was edited by: ari on 2005-06-13 06:14 ][ This Message was edited by: ari on 2005-06-13 06:19 ]"
Thanks for your post. Does Chris have a lawyer and the money to defend himself?
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yes, he has a lawyer. i'm not sure exactly how he retained him, but the fla. "public defender" system is slightly different than most, or so i've been told. basically, the lawyer has to be "certified" to try 1st degree felonies. so, there is a pool of lawyers, public and private that is drawn from. i've checked out the lawyer, he looks like a good lawyer.
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His name was Randy Cooke and he is the piece of shit that "escorted" me from Miami. Lynn pretzfield is a brainwashed bitch who brainwashes parents for monetary gain. She has multiple cases pending i8n Miami Dade county and has elready been convicted of racketeering and conmspiracy to commit fraud.
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RANDY COOK WAS IN SAMOA WHEN CHRISTOPHER GOT THERE. I WAS IN SAMOA WITH CHRIS.
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that's why lynn moved to nyc. for all of you that were in samoa, either with chriss or at another time, my heart bleeds for you all. i couldn't imagine what being there must have been like. nobody should have to endure that, especially with what i've heard about the early days.
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I've known chris, eric his ditzy girlfriend and on the occasional meeting his father for years and years.
I have to say i am walking inot the middle of all this. I know that chris is in some sort of trouble about plotting to kill his family?
I know that chris has issues, from the tortures at that figean camp where he rediscovered himself. His conflict about being adopted. His desire to be a great lawyer like his father but not feeeling that he could match him. He wanted to be a success but felt he couldn't measure up, he thugged it. He shook kids down, dealt and robbed from his friends and cheated us sometimes. We still liked him though, I remember him struggling with mdcc and UofM trying to become a lawyer like his father. I myself am struggling in law school now and can't imagine having to doubletime it.
I don't know the whole truth, and hope that what i have read soo far is totally wrong and misleading. I hope that this is all a mistake and that this wretch of a human being is exhonerated and finds himself reborn again after this new hell he's going through.
Good luck you asshole, as much as i want to kick your ass again is as much as i pray for you.
sincerely,
Tom
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On 2005-06-15 07:55:00, Shockabilly1013 wrote:
"I've known chris, eric his ditzy girlfriend and on the occasional meeting his father for years and years.
I have to say i am walking inot the middle of all this. I know that chris is in some sort of trouble about plotting to kill his family?
I know that chris has issues, from the tortures at that figean camp where he rediscovered himself. His conflict about being adopted. His desire to be a great lawyer like his father but not feeeling that he could match him. He wanted to be a success but felt he couldn't measure up, he thugged it. He shook kids down, dealt and robbed from his friends and cheated us sometimes. We still liked him though, I remember him struggling with mdcc and UofM trying to become a lawyer like his father. I myself am struggling in law school now and can't imagine having to doubletime it.
I don't know the whole truth, and hope that what i have read soo far is totally wrong and misleading. I hope that this is all a mistake and that this wretch of a human being is exhonerated and finds himself reborn again after this new hell he's going through.
Good luck you asshole, as much as i want to kick your ass again is as much as i pray for you.
sincerely,
Tom"
It'nice someone is looking beneath the surface ... Paradise Cove was a hellcamp and any kid who did "time" there had to come away with scars: physical, mental, emotional and spiritual.
The two boys who killed themselves rather than face being sent back to PC (or any WWASPS hellcamp) are proof postive that these places are no cakewalk.
I hope parents are listening ... and take the time to reflec ... but for the grace of God, go their children.
None of these cult treatment programs are safe.
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AHAHAHAHAH WHAT A BUNCH OF HORSE SHIT
A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
James Madison, The Federalist No. 46
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tom, thank you for portraying chriss as he was. not always the "best, nicest, peaceful" guy, but a guy who somewhere inside of him really just wanted to be better. i don't actually know what is going on right now. i can't get any actual information from anyone, even to find out what jail he's in (i keep getting told that they don't know because the are in the process of transferring him). if any one manages to find out, please post it (it should either be metro-west or tgk). samoa was not the beginning of chriss' problems, however, it was a breaking point.
and, who the hell are you calling ditzy!!!! :razz:
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If Chris has friends who care about him, they should try their best to let him know, personally.
I don't know if he has access to the Internet or even knows about this board.
Can you contact his lawyer and ask to send mail to him/her to forward to Chris?
Believe it or not, Chris has a better chance of getting mail where he is now than he ever did while in Samoa.
In fact, he has a legal right to talk to his lawyer and get mail.
Go fot it!
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sorry I bashed you......I was reaching in my story....forgive me but i do believe he was setup. I can't see him doing this he's just a bully and a wanna be thug.
sorry again shinny (my pet name for you) you can call me at 345-325-2282 it's really expensive but I want to find out what the hell is going on.
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On 2005-06-15 17:02:00, Shockabilly1013 wrote:
"sorry I bashed you......I was reaching in my story....forgive me but i do believe he was setup. I can't see him doing this he's just a bully and a wanna be thug.
sorry again shinny (my pet name for you) you can call me at 345-325-2282 it's really expensive but I want to find out what the hell is going on."
no offense actually taken on my part. is there an email i can reach you at? i only have my cell right now, and with where you are, i don't think i can call that far. we were actually there last april and chriss tried to find you (i was out scuba diving) i don't know how much information i actually have b/c i'm still trying to piece some things together myself.
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I am attempting to find out who chris's lawyer is currently. My family is in criminal law back in miami and I am having them try and contact his attorney. Also, if my Uncle thinks the case has any merrits he is considering aiding chris if he needs it. When i have found a mailing address i will post it on the forum for folks to read. Please hold any hate mail, being in prison is tough enough.
my email is tombirmingham@hotmail.com simple huh?
don't forget your prayers too.
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get a good lawyer, for when chriss and garrett start talking about your involvement, maybe you can make a deal. chriss will take all he can down with him, why should you be spared?
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So, best friend, you really believe drama queen's story?
"Fat, dumb and stupid and no way to go through life."
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On 2005-06-16 06:19:00, Shockabilly1013 wrote:
"I am attempting to find out who chris's lawyer is currently. My family is in criminal law back in miami and I am having them try and contact his attorney. Also, if my Uncle thinks the case has any merrits he is considering aiding chris if he needs it. When i have found a mailing address i will post it on the forum for folks to read. Please hold any hate mail, being in prison is tough enough.
my email is tombirmingham@hotmail.com simple huh?
don't forget your prayers too."
Wishing you all God's Speed in your quest to help Christophe Sutton. Please post any information you can for those of us who support your efforts and care about CS. Perhaps those who wish to communicate with him should send correspondence through you to circumvent any hate-filled messages?
Thanks!
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On 2005-06-19 08:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 06:19:00, Shockabilly1013 wrote:
"I am attempting to find out who chris's lawyer is currently. My family is in criminal law back in miami and I am having them try and contact his attorney. Also, if my Uncle thinks the case has any merrits he is considering aiding chris if he needs it. When i have found a mailing address i will post it on the forum for folks to read. Please hold any hate mail, being in prison is tough enough.
my email is tombirmingham@hotmail.com simple huh?
don't forget your prayers too."
Wishing you all God's Speed in your quest to help Christophe Sutton. Please post any information you can for those of us who support your efforts and care about CS. Perhaps those who wish to communicate with him should send correspondence through you to circumvent any hate-filled messages?
Thanks!"
thank you everybody...
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On 2005-06-18 18:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"get a good lawyer, for when chriss and garrett start talking about your involvement, maybe you can make a deal. chriss will take all he can down with him, why should you be spared?"
who else do you think was involved?
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This should not be about bashing a program. This is about the death of a mother, permanent injury to a father not to mention the other family members involved.
Quite honestly I dont feel bad for this mother or father, if they sent him there they diserve it I would think.
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I dont feel bed for them either. Nobody deserves to die but when I saw his picture and read the story I was not surprised.
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How could anyone not feel bad for someone who is murdered. The mother of a son and daughter. I had previously asked and NEVER got an answer.
What exactly do you think his parents could have done since he had planned to murder them "in writing" PRIOR to going to Samoa, was so physically abusive to his parents that they had to get a restraining order against him living with them BEFORE he went to Samoa, was sent to numerous private schools both in Miami and outside of Miami, was sent to numerous therapists. Instead of saying what they should not have done or where they should not have sent him, please say where you would have sent him or what you would have done with an out of control, threatening, abusive young man who was not going to school, using drugs and destroying his life and that of his mother, father and sister.
Remember, I was in Samoa with Chriss and I know what went on there, but MURDER? No way!!
How many of you who have been in Samoa came home and attempted to kill your parents because you honestly thought they sent you there to be abused, if, in fact you were abused which Chriss was not. He was never out of control while in Samoa so he NEVER had to be restrained!
Some of you are so mad with the program that you forget this is about someone who murdered another and seriously and permanently injured someone else and turned his sister's life upside down.
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On 2005-06-20 17:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How could anyone not feel bad for someone who is murdered. The mother of a son and daughter. I had previously asked and NEVER got an answer.
What exactly do you think his parents could have done since he had planned to murder them "in writing" PRIOR to going to Samoa, was so physically abusive to his parents that they had to get a restraining order against him living with them BEFORE he went to Samoa, was sent to numerous private schools both in Miami and outside of Miami, was sent to numerous therapists. Instead of saying what they should not have done or where they should not have sent him, please say where you would have sent him or what you would have done with an out of control, threatening, abusive young man who was not going to school, using drugs and destroying his life and that of his mother, father and sister.
Remember, I was in Samoa with Chriss and I know what went on there, but MURDER? No way!!
How many of you who have been in Samoa came home and attempted to kill your parents because you honestly thought they sent you there to be abused, if, in fact you were abused which Chriss was not. He was never out of control while in Samoa so he NEVER had to be restrained!
Some of you are so mad with the program that you forget this is about someone who murdered another and seriously and permanently injured someone else and turned his sister's life upside down."
Guess you'd have to be one of the kids who got sent to Samoa to know that no matter how angry a parent was with their teen, no kid deserved to be sent to that hellhole.
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I am, but no one wants to answer my question. Why. Is there no answer or just no good answer? Asshole, I was there with Chriss!
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On 2005-06-20 19:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am, but no one wants to answer my question. Why. Is there no answer or just no good answer? Asshole, I was there with Chriss!"
Personally, I have great empathy for Chris's family members but Chris is innocent until proven guilty. Why demonize him before he's even had his day in court?
Second, if you really were in Paradise Cove, than you either were comatose the whole time or you were a suck-up upper level b/c there is no way anybody could think Paradise Cove was not abusive.
Were you at Le Tiera? Did you know the one-legged kid from Washington State? What about Corey Murphy? Clayton Bowman? Chris Landre, Sergio Alva? Randy Rogers?
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Yes, I was in PC. I didn't say PC was not abusive. I said that Chriss was not abused. He was not out of control while there and was not abused there.
Yes, I know the idiot who shot off his leg. Yes, I know Le Tiera. No I do not know Randy Rogers.
Still, no answer to my questions. DUH!
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On 2005-06-20 19:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes, I was in PC. I didn't say PC was not abusive. I said that Chriss was not abused. He was not out of control while there and was not abused there.
Yes, I know the idiot who shot off his leg. Yes, I know Le Tiera. No I do not know Randy Rogers.
Still, no answer to my questions. DUH!"
D E A T H S K I L L S (LIMBO)
Remember that?
Is your name Greg by any chance?
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To Anon who was at PC with Chris:
You don't know if Chris was abused because you don't know what abuse is.
Whether a kid is physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually or spiritually abused ... it's still called A B U S E.
:flame:
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On 2005-06-20 19:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I said that Chriss was not abused. He was not out of control while there and was not abused there.
<
once again, how come you are the ONLY person claiming that chriss was never abused?
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On 2005-06-20 19:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am, but no one wants to answer my question. Why. Is there no answer or just no good answer? Asshole, I was there with Chriss!"
i can tell you that the cops are saying it was because he hated them and for the money. IF this is all true, i lean more toward the "he hated them" theory. yes, chriss placed a lot of importance on money, but the truth of the matter is, is that he got, for the most part, whatever he wanted. also chriss actually did have his own ideas on what he wanted to do...chriss' anger ran deep...but really only chriss knows why, i don't think anyone has actually been able to talk to him since march.
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How could anyone not feel bad for someone who is murdered. The mother of a son and daughter. I had previously asked and NEVER got an answer.
Simple sent him there, thus compounding the surrent culture of apprent abandoning their kids to people that hurt them in the name of helping them. Its not what they did, but the president it set, its ok to send your kid off, its ok to have them abused, its ok because yoru going to "fix" them. It has nothing to do with this guys, who seems to be a not very nice person, but it has to do with what they said with their actions. "We give up, we pass you off, your not important."
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first i would like to say that there is an american justice system. In that system the accused is just that till proven guilty in a court of law beyond resonable doubt.
In this case, as to chris's involvement with the murder of his mother and the maiming of his father I see only one fact. He knew garreth kopp. Garreth Kopp along with most (i say most but not all) of chris's firends were rather shaddy and dubious characters. they participated in petty crime that is generally accepted in a vice city like miami. Chris's parents did send him to somoa, what went on there is a matter of fact for the courts to determine and for a few to know the truth. chris's parents also had gobs of cash. other than these apparent facts I don't see a real motive, I don't see any method to this attack (which is concordant with chris's mentality), I dont' see a case......However mine is just an opinion.
To respond to various off the handle accusations made by some rather rude people that should try and show they got a pair by revealing their identities (i am calling you out bitches). I feel that throwing insults (shit slinging) and making very character damaging remarks about person(s) involvement in this tragedy are counter productive.
If you have anything to contribute to the group. Information that can help this case or that can damage it please do announce it. For example, I know that one of Chris's friends had been burglarizing my house as it was an easy mark, that i had a cannon camera (value 550$), some leather jackets and few other trinkets taken. If anyone else experienced this it may contribute to a history of KOPP potentially acting independently and being a recurrent B&E criminal. Or maybe he acted under instruction. If you know something speak up....you can help either side or sit back and let what many feel to be an innocent man be convicted of a crime he did not commit.
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I was in Paradise cove and remember skills, but what was death skills?
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On 2005-06-21 10:03:00, Shockabilly1013 wrote:
"first i would like to say that there is an american justice system. In that system the accused is just that till proven guilty in a court of law beyond resonable doubt.
In this case, as to chris's involvement with the murder of his mother and the maiming of his father I see only one fact. He knew garreth kopp. Garreth Kopp along with most (i say most but not all) of chris's firends were rather shaddy and dubious characters. they participated in petty crime that is generally accepted in a vice city like miami. Chris's parents did send him to somoa, what went on there is a matter of fact for the courts to determine and for a few to know the truth. chris's parents also had gobs of cash. other than these apparent facts I don't see a real motive, I don't see any method to this attack (which is concordant with chris's mentality), I dont' see a case......However mine is just an opinion.
To respond to various off the handle accusations made by some rather rude people that should try and show they got a pair by revealing their identities (i am calling you out bitches). I feel that throwing insults (shit slinging) and making very character damaging remarks about person(s) involvement in this tragedy are counter productive.
If you have anything to contribute to the group. Information that can help this case or that can damage it please do announce it. For example, I know that one of Chris's friends had been burglarizing my house as it was an easy mark, that i had a cannon camera (value 550$), some leather jackets and few other trinkets taken. If anyone else experienced this it may contribute to a history of KOPP potentially acting independently and being a recurrent B&E criminal. Or maybe he acted under instruction. If you know something speak up....you can help either side or sit back and let what many feel to be an innocent man be convicted of a crime he did not commit."
Well said! I don't know Chris but even if he had "issues", that doesn't mean the guy had anything to do with some plan to murder his parents .. especially if the only proof is what is being alleged by the person arrested for the crime.
In order to prove his guilt, the prosecution is gonna need cold, hard evidence ... not heresay from a girlfriend or the trigger man.
Hope Chris has an excellent defense attorney and gets a fair trial. Seems like he has already been convicted in the court of public opinion which is a real shame.
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<
In order to prove his guilt, the prosecution is gonna need cold, hard evidence ... not heresay from a girlfriend or the trigger man.
Hope Chris has an excellent defense attorney and gets a fair trial. Seems like he has already been convicted in the court of public opinion which is a real shame.
"
all they have is the heresay of a triggerman...
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Hearsay is inadmisable in a court of law, and any compadent lawyer could get it tossed out, the issue is there is a exception for hearsay against intrest, and anything the triggerman has to say would be against intrest.
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the only thing the triggerman has to offer is a "he said so." nothing else
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I do not know how everyone is so sure Chriss had nothing to do with this. You saw the article and what his "girlfriend" had to say. Why would she say those things? I don't know if some of you even know him.
Dude, HE IS GUILTY and I KNOW and so does >>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Well that's it, debates over. We heard it straight from a anon on a message board. Case closed. :roll:
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On 2005-06-22 18:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I do not know how everyone is so sure Chriss had nothing to do with this. You saw the article and what his "girlfriend" had to say. Why would she say those things? I don't know if some of you even know him.
Dude, HE IS GUILTY and I KNOW and so does >>>>>>>>>>>>>"
once again, don't believe everything you read in the damn newspaper...
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I don't know what to think about the kid's involvement. I'm just glad that a couple of his friends have been able to connect w/ each other. Even if he's guilty as hell (especially if he is) he'll need the support of good friends right about now.
What kind of humanism expresses its reluctance to sacrifice military casualties by devastating the civilian economy of its adversary for decades to come?
Henry Kissinger
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If he is guilty, he does not need support. He needs to BURN IN HELL!
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On 2005-06-23 14:53:00, Antigen wrote:
"I don't know what to think about the kid's involvement. I'm just glad that a couple of his friends have been able to connect w/ each other. Even if he's guilty as hell (especially if he is) he'll need the support of good friends right about now. What kind of humanism expresses its reluctance to sacrifice military casualties by devastating the civilian economy of its adversary for decades to come?
Henry Kissinger
"
I agree! It's hard to know what really happened that night and/or whether Chris had premeditated the murder of his parents with an accomplice (the trigger man).
Either way, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
If friends want to support him in some way, even if they think he is guilty, that's their choice.
After all, this isn't a program. People can have an opinion of their own.
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Just curious.....In what way do you support a MURDERER? Do you send him money for cigarettes and food? Do you sympathize with him for killing his mother and permanently injuring his father?
He knows the difference between right and wrong and he obviously chose WRONG!
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On 2005-06-23 18:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Just curious.....In what way do you support a MURDERER? Do you send him money for cigarettes and food? Do you sympathize with him for killing his mother and permanently injuring his father?
He knows the difference between right and wrong and he obviously chose WRONG!"
Sure, I'd send him a carton or two.
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the easy thing to do is to say that he is guilty...it resolves something and gives us an answer. the idea that he is innocent is a more difficult answer to comprehend, because then we have someone who is sitting in a jail cell awaiting a trial, where the possible outcome could be a needle in his arm. the jury has a tough job. they have to weed out the facts from the lies, and there are many that have been told, and most likely more are to come. what it looks like most of us agree on is that chriss is a very troubled person with some severe issues regarding his parents and his 2 1/2 year stint in samoa. these are issues that he will battle for the rest of his life. until this goes to trial, or he pleads out (which is what the prosecution is hoping will happen), there is no definitive answer. and even then, innocent people have spent their lives in jail. but chriss has a good attorney...let's just hope he can get a fair trial...which could be a concern.
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Chirss does have issues. Every murderer does. Chriss has a great attorney and will get a fair trial. Chriss did not do this for anything else but $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Chris, if he hated his parents for whatever reason, could have stopped talking to them, moved away or not, gotten a job, supported himself and never spoken to them again.
Instead, he relied on them for support, housing, clothing, cars, credit card payments, food and everything. He did not want to let go. He just wanted them to let go of the money so he could have whatever he wanted. Was and is he troubled, absolutely, but that started way before he was ever sent away.
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and that's exactly what he did. he moved away, stopped talking to them and started supporting himself. the first time he did that...oh, that's right, they sent him to samoa. the second time, it was them that contacted him. THEY WOULDN'T LET HIM GO...once he had a job and making ends meet, they just started giving him stuff...it was like oh, you can do it on your own..nevermind we'll help you now. there are many sides to this story.
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chriss didn't want the life that they wanted him to create. he wasn't meant to be a college boy, like they wanted. but can you really blame him for taking it? if your parents said, hey if you go to school, we'll pay your rent, 1/2 of your car insurance and give you a little money for groceries, since we don't want you to have to work and go to school, which he actually did for a little while, would you really say no... anything more that of the money that they gave him had to be paid back. his mom kept an "account" detailing how much money they gave him and how much of it he had paid back...not everything was for free.
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Chriss was 26 years old and he didn't EVER have to do what his parents wanted. The truth is he was never able to hold a job for any length of time. He was a F---Up. Many people support themselves and do not listen nor care what anyone including their parents have to say about it, but Chriss bragged to his "ditzy" girfriend how they would soon have lots of money. How was he going to get it? His parents would have been happy if he had a steady job, was law abiding and happy, but he was none of the above. Ms. Ditz was just in it for the $$$$ she thought his parents would give and that they did give. Afterall, her parents didn't give anything except the check she stole from her grandmother for Chriss to forge. Yeah, Ditz, there is more known about you than you think. You think Chriss didn't tell people things. Think again!!
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On 2005-06-24 08:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"and that's exactly what he did. he moved away, stopped talking to them and started supporting himself. the first time he did that...oh, that's right, they sent him to samoa. the second time, it was them that contacted him. THEY WOULDN'T LET HIM GO...once he had a job and making ends meet, they just started giving him stuff...it was like oh, you can do it on your own..nevermind we'll help you now. there are many sides to this story. "
Those parents screwed Chris up by keeping him in a private prison for 2 and 1/2 years. What the hell were they thinking? That place was a lock down facility for rich kids whose parents could not (or would not) control their own kids.
Read the Corey Murphy story. He's the kid who blew his own brains out when threatened by his mother with being sent back to a WWASPS program.
The gun was hers ... what mother keeps a loaded gun in the house?
Damn fool!
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The first time he "moved away" wasn't HIM moving away. It was his parents who got a restraining order to keep him away from them because they feared for his life. He was 15 years old!!! Before that time, they had him in therapy, private, public schools, wilderness programs, sports activities. Soooooooo, they took responsibility for their child.
You know what? There are children that are abused, homeless, etc. and they do not KILL!
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On 2005-06-26 07:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The first time he "moved away" wasn't HIM moving away. It was his parents who got a restraining order to keep him away from them because they feared for his life. He was 15 years old!!! Before that time, they had him in therapy, private, public schools, wilderness programs, sports activities. Soooooooo, they took responsibility for their child.
You know what? There are children that are abused, homeless, etc. and they do not KILL!"
So? Doesn't mean Chris deserved or needed to grow up in some abusive program.
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On 2005-06-24 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Chriss was 26 years old and he didn't EVER have to do what his parents wanted. The truth is he was never able to hold a job for any length of time. He was a F---Up. Many people support themselves and do not listen nor care what anyone including their parents have to say about it, but Chriss bragged to his "ditzy" girfriend how they would soon have lots of money. How was he going to get it? His parents would have been happy if he had a steady job, was law abiding and happy, but he was none of the above. Ms. Ditz was just in it for the $$$$ she thought his parents would give and that they did give. Afterall, her parents didn't give anything except the check she stole from her grandmother for Chriss to forge. Yeah, Ditz, there is more known about you than you think. You think Chriss didn't tell people things. Think again!!"
i was never in it for the money. i never once asked for anything and i ALWAYS had a job so that i could pay for my part. whatever deals chriss had worked out with his parents i stayed as far away from as possible. and you know what, i'm sure chriss did tell people things about me, i'm not perfect either. i'm a fuck up in my own way too. and the check i stole, i didn't give it to chriss to forge, that was all me. and i've told people that story too...that was a long time ago. and as far as them being happy with chriss "just having a full time job...it was AFTER he had a full time job for six months that they offered him everything, obviously it wasn't enough them. i know that they just wanted the best for chriss in the long run. but you are right in that chriss would never be truly happy. he was haunted by too many nightmares.
and about everything that people are reading in that retarded newspaper article: 1. DON'T BELEIVE EVERYTHING YOU READ IN THE NEWSPAPER; 2. things are misquoted, things are put together that were never said together 3. words have been changed/added; all this for the purpose of being a better article. chriss never said that we would have lots of money soon. that is a misconstrued statement. only a few people know what i went through on the day that statement was taken.
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Anybody know the name of Chris's lawyer? For people who want to help him in some way?
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On 2005-06-27 06:07:00, ari wrote:
"
On 2005-06-24 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Chriss was 26 years old and he didn't EVER have to do what his parents wanted. The truth is he was never able to hold a job for any length of time. He was a F---Up. Many people support themselves and do not listen nor care what anyone including their parents have to say about it, but Chriss bragged to his "ditzy" girfriend how they would soon have lots of money. How was he going to get it? His parents would have been happy if he had a steady job, was law abiding and happy, but he was none of the above. Ms. Ditz was just in it for the $$$$ she thought his parents would give and that they did give. Afterall, her parents didn't give anything except the check she stole from her grandmother for Chriss to forge. Yeah, Ditz, there is more known about you than you think. You think Chriss didn't tell people things. Think again!!"
i was never in it for the money. i never once asked for anything and i ALWAYS had a job so that i could pay for my part. whatever deals chriss had worked out with his parents i stayed as far away from as possible. and you know what, i'm sure chriss did tell people things about me, i'm not perfect either. i'm a fuck up in my own way too. and the check i stole, i didn't give it to chriss to forge, that was all me. and i've told people that story too...that was a long time ago. and as far as them being happy with chriss "just having a full time job...it was AFTER he had a full time job for six months that they offered him everything, obviously it wasn't enough them. i know that they just wanted the best for chriss in the long run. but you are right in that chriss would never be truly happy. he was haunted by too many nightmares.
and about everything that people are reading in that retarded newspaper article: 1. DON'T BELEIVE EVERYTHING YOU READ IN THE NEWSPAPER; 2. things are misquoted, things are put together that were never said together 3. words have been changed/added; all this for the purpose of being a better article. chriss never said that we would have lots of money soon. that is a misconstrued statement. only a few people know what i went through on the day that statement was taken. "
What's to say the triggerman isn't pointing the finger of blame at Chris to get even and/or a better deal (Life in Prison instead of the Death Penalty)?
:???:
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On 2005-06-27 09:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Anybody know the name of Chris's lawyer? For people who want to help him in some way?
"
please e-mail me at ar1adne@hotmail.com...i'll find out
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<
What's to say the triggerman isn't pointing the finger of blame at Chris to get even and/or a better deal (Life in Prison instead of the Death Penalty)?
:???: "
innocent until proven guilty, isn't that our legal system's motto?....thank you for remembering that.
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That onl applys in criminal court, in civil court, fincial court, and family court its guilty untill proven innocent.
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ummm. he is in criminal court, not civil (no one is suing him)..not family (he's not getting divorces)
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this is only to ARI. Just what nightmares did Chriss tell you he suffered from?
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On 2005-06-27 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"this is only to ARI. Just what nightmares did Chriss tell you he suffered from?"
please send me an email ar1adne@hotmail.com
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i knew chris for 7 years and he was a psychotic ball of rage who was to keen on role playing games and dungeons and dragons... thank god he's going away
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On 2005-06-29 18:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i knew chris for 7 years and he was a psychotic ball of rage who was to keen on role playing games and dungeons and dragons... thank god he's going away"
Yeah right. That's damning evidence he murdered anyone.
:roll:
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:eek: http://www.cybermoonstudios.com/8bitDandD.html (http://www.cybermoonstudios.com/8bitDandD.html) :eek:
WATCH OUT! YOU CAN WATCH THE DEPTHS OF A GAME OF DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS! FEAR! LOOK AT THE DANGERS YOUR CHILDREN FACE AND HOW THEY CAN BE TURNED TO EEEEEVIL!
"I wanna cast a spell!" <- hes been turned?
WHERE ARE THE CHEETOS?The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
--John Adams, U.S. President
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Haha, I remember that, I did a report with some friends on the dangers of such role playing games (it was mostly satire, and if you dont take it to the extream your fine) and we used that as a visual aid.
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i think it was the diablo II :roll: :roll:
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nope, its straight up D&D woot!
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does anyone know if anyone other than his lawyer has talked to him?
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On 2005-06-07 19:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK.....Christopher was not living at home PRIOR to his going to Samoa because of threats and physical abuse on his part towards his parents. His parents had to get a restraining order against him because he was so violent BEFORE going to Samoa. He was placed in private school, other short-term programs, afforded the best therapists and was non-responsive.
Christopher only alleged wrong-doing to those who were NOT in Samoa when he was. He advocated the program to others when in the company of others who were in Samoa with him.
He is and was obviously very "sick" and, if anything, the 29 months he spent in Samoa kept his parents safer for a little longer.
BTW, the article states the program was in American Samoa...WRONG again!!!!
This should not be about bashing a program. This is about the death of a mother, permanent injury to a father not to mention the other family members involved.
"
You're fucking sick
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On 2005-06-29 18:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i knew chris for 7 years and he was a psychotic ball of rage who was to keen on role playing games and dungeons and dragons... thank god he's going away"
People dont become psycho balls of rage on their own.Sounds like bad parenting..
Murder? Ill call it justice. They fucked him up..and he in turn fucked them up.
Even steven.
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I am a graduate of the WWASP program in Utah. That program saved my life when medication, church, therapy and parental love and support did not. I cannot defend Paradise Cove considering that I was never there, but I urge everyone to consider the sources. Teenagers are sent to places like that because they are rebellious, troubled, and self destructive. They are usually addicts or alcoholics who act out through substance abuse, COMPULSIVE LYING, promiscuity, violence, and criminal behavior. If WWASP programs were so horrible, then why do so many graduates go back to visit, speak, and even work at those same facilities. Oh, brainwashing! Riiiiight.....
I call BS.
Sounds to me like troubled teenagers have grown into troubled adults. Now that their parents are no longer enabling them, they look for yet another handout in the form of a tidy little settlement. I am now a mother, and would I want to send my child to a program? No.
But if faced with the alternatives of jail or a cemetery, would I send him? Absolutely.
Oh and, PS. Bad parents don't send their children to programs. They require not only too much money, but too much parental participation, education, and tranformation. A bad parent would let their child die of an overdose or live on the streets, not put them in the only place they know their child will be safe.
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On 2005-07-06 18:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am a graduate of the WWASP program in Utah. That program saved my life when medication, church, therapy and parental love and support did not. I cannot defend Paradise Cove considering that I was never there, but I urge everyone to consider the sources. Teenagers are sent to places like that because they are rebellious, troubled, and self destructive. They are usually addicts or alcoholics who act out through substance abuse, COMPULSIVE LYING, promiscuity, violence, and criminal behavior. If WWASP programs were so horrible, then why do so many graduates go back to visit, speak, and even work at those same facilities. Oh, brainwashing! Riiiiight.....
I call BS.
Sounds to me like troubled teenagers have grown into troubled adults. Now that their parents are no longer enabling them, they look for yet another handout in the form of a tidy little settlement. I am now a mother, and would I want to send my child to a program? No.
But if faced with the alternatives of jail or a cemetery, would I send him? Absolutely.
Oh and, PS. Bad parents don't send their children to programs. They require not only too much money, but too much parental participation, education, and tranformation. A bad parent would let their child die of an overdose or live on the streets, not put them in the only place they know their child will be safe."
You sound awfully familiar... haha :wstupid:
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"
On 2005-07-06 18:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
Oh and, PS. Bad parents don't send their children to programs.
Bullshit!Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry
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I am a graduate of the WWASP program in Utah. That program saved my life when medication, church, therapy and parental love and support did not.
The program, through seminars, psychological pressure, and physical and mental abuse, convinced you that your life has been saved. That doesn't mean it actually happened.
I cannot defend Paradise Cove considering that I was never there, but I urge everyone to consider the sources. Teenagers are sent to places like that because they are rebellious, troubled, and self destructive. They are usually addicts or alcoholics who act out through substance abuse, COMPULSIVE LYING, promiscuity, violence, and criminal behavior.
That old, familiar WWASPie line... "WWASP is wonderful, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar!".
Truth is, WWASP's programs are the most abusive, harmful programs out there.
If WWASP programs were so horrible, then why do so many graduates go back to visit, speak, and even work at those same facilities. Oh, brainwashing! Riiiiight.....
I call BS.
Your comments prove that brainwashing exists and is used by WWASP. The seminars used by WWASP are, in fact, Lifespring seminars. Lifespring is a cult. The entire program is designed to break kids down, make them believe that what goes on in the program is not only legitimate, it is also needed. The program's purpose is to convince its captives that they have been saved. Your post is a good example of that.
Oh and, PS. Bad parents don't send their children to programs. They require not only too much money, but too much parental participation, education, and tranformation. A bad parent would let their child die of an overdose or live on the streets, not put them in the only place they know their child will be safe.
As Ginger put it, bullshit. Bad parents are parents who are unwilling to be parents. Bad parents are the ones who give up on their children and send them to programs, where they will be abused and held without any way of communicating with the world while their parents are being brainwashed in Lifespring seminars. Bad parents are parents who declare to the world and to their own children, "I don't want to be a parent. I'm not going to work hard and find a way to help my child. I'm just going to give up on him/her, and pay someone else to raise them and do the dirty work for me".
That's what it means to send a kid to a program. It means the child is abandoned. No matter how many times you tell yourself it is "an act of love", it is an act of betrayal, and endangerment.
Parents, don't give up on your children. Don't hand them over to abusive program (like WWASP) that only want your money. Trust yourselves and trust your instincts. Programs love to tell parents that their child will die. They love to prey on your anxieties and fears, enforce them, then promise salvation. Don't let them. Help and support your teens, especially if they're going through tough times. Handing them over for other people to raise will only make things worse.
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yes it saved my life, but paradise cove was one of the worst places on earth to be. i know that it gives comfort to parents to say that this is the right thing no matter what. i can agree when it comes to southwest utah and their programs, but i will never allow anyone to defend samoa. it was nothing short of torture. to the parents that send their kids for acting out a couple of times, i pity you, kids do act out, and if your religous beliefs get challenged a little THE PROGRAM IS NOT THE ANSWER. that being said, the program in utah is a great place for really messed up kids to get help and grow self esteem and possibly live fruitful lives after it. nothing would have saved me like it did, but sending your kid 5000 miles away is just sick. i will continue to post on this site, because even though the program was 5 years ago, it still effects my life. ps dont get too programmed out on me, life still has to be a little fun :grin:
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If the program worked on just good old fashioned discipline and structure, why not provide that yourself? Oh, kid won't listen to you? How do you think these strangers are going to make him listen? Come on.... think now.... how, oh how, could that be done? How does it "work"? What is it that they do there that you can't do yourself?
Bad parents are also those who feed iced tea to infants, then can't figure out why the kid can't sleep and won't stop screaming.
Stupidity is no excuse.
I believe that relgion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
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What is the name of Christopher Sutton's lawyer? Anybody know his/her name and how to get in touch with them (in support of Chris)?
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Seems noone's ready to give away the lawyer's name - i find that intersting
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Yeah, that's weird. Somebody must know who Chris's lawyer is.
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Paradise Cove was a tough program. The granddaddy of offshore behavior mod warehouses, from what I gathered from old posts.
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i do know the name of chriss' lawyer, however, i do not want people who are unsupportive getting a hold of the information. if you are really interested, please contact me at ar1adne@hotmail.com and i will be glad to share that information with you. [ This Message was edited by: ari on 2005-09-07 13:13 ]
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On 2005-09-07 13:13:00, ari wrote:
"i do know the name of chriss' lawyer, however, i do not want people who are unsupportive getting a hold of the information. if you are really interested, please contact me at ar1adne@hotmail.com and i will be glad to share that information with you. [ This Message was edited by: ari on 2005-09-07 13:13 ]"
Are you the girlfriend we have read about? If so, are you supportive of Chris and what if anything can you tell us about how he is doing (e.g. is he in jail, is his father helping him, what about other family members? Are they for or against Chris?)
Obviously, this was a horrific tragedy but we must remember this young man is innocent until proven guilty. Second, former students who were sent to Paradise Cove have described the now-defunct program as no better, in fact even worse, than Tranquility Bay, the highly controversial program in Jamaica with ties to WWASPS.
Thanks!
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On 2005-09-07 14:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-09-07 13:13:00, ari wrote:
"i do know the name of chriss' lawyer, however, i do not want people who are unsupportive getting a hold of the information. if you are really interested, please contact me at ar1adne@hotmail.com and i will be glad to share that information with you. [ This Message was edited by: ari on 2005-09-07 13:13 ]"
Are you the girlfriend we have read about? If so, are you supportive of Chris and what if anything can you tell us about how he is doing (e.g. is he in jail, is his father helping him, what about other family members? Are they for or against Chris?)
Obviously, this was a horrific tragedy but we must remember this young man is innocent until proven guilty. Second, former students who were sent to Paradise Cove have described the now-defunct program as no better, in fact even worse, than Tranquility Bay, the highly controversial program in Jamaica with ties to WWASPS.
Thanks!"
PLEASE SEND ME AN E-MAIL, as i would like to be able to communicate with people that truly do understand the meaning of innocent until proven guilty...i have been very silent, at least regarding my side of the story and what i actually know/don't know, for a reason. please try and understand my hesitency to give details regarding this matter...i have other people getting information for me, as i am in a scary situation as well...
this was a truly horrific experience for EVERYONE that had to go through it...chriss is included in that statement.
from what i've heard about samoa made tranquility bay seem almost tame. i've met people from both programs...my heart goes out to all the people that have had to live those nightmares...
PLEASE SEND ME AN E-MAIL[ This Message was edited by: ari on 2005-09-08 07:02 ]
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"from what i've heard about samoa made tranquility bay seem almost tame. i've met people from both programs...my heart goes out to all the people that have had to live those nightmares..."
I'll tell you what a nightmare is - it's knowing that Juliette Driscoll is not in jail with Chriss and Garrett. She conspired with Chriss and Garrett to commit this crime. She knew Chriss was planning to kill his parents, she has submitted a sworn statement stating that she knew. (This statement is a public document in the Miami-Dade court system. Anyone can get it.) Yet, did she warn them? No, on the night of the incident she and Chriss went to the parents house for dinner to celebrate Chriss' mom's birthday. (Just read the public document, it's all there.) What sick people, like Happy Birthday, we'll be back later to kill you and get your money.
In prior posts, Juliette has stated that she loved Chriss' parents. What bullshit is this? She "loves" them, knows a plot to kill them and does nothing. We should all make it our goal to make sure Juliette Driscoll does not "love" us!
Juliette's father is a doctor, which could lead one to believe there's money there, also. Hey, Doc, watch your back, cause Juliette needs money since the Miami well dried up!
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On 2005-09-17 04:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
""from what i've heard about samoa made tranquility bay seem almost tame. i've met people from both programs...my heart goes out to all the people that have had to live those nightmares..."
I'll tell you what a nightmare is - it's knowing that Juliette Driscoll is not in jail with Chriss and Garrett. She conspired with Chriss and Garrett to commit this crime. She knew Chriss was planning to kill his parents, she has submitted a sworn statement stating that she knew. (This statement is a public document in the Miami-Dade court system. Anyone can get it.) Yet, did she warn them? No, on the night of the incident she and Chriss went to the parents house for dinner to celebrate Chriss' mom's birthday. (Just read the public document, it's all there.) What sick people, like Happy Birthday, we'll be back later to kill you and get your money.
In prior posts, Juliette has stated that she loved Chriss' parents. What bullshit is this? She "loves" them, knows a plot to kill them and does nothing. We should all make it our goal to make sure Juliette Driscoll does not "love" us!
Juliette's father is a doctor, which could lead one to believe there's money there, also. Hey, Doc, watch your back, cause Juliette needs money since the Miami well dried up!
"
How do you know she isn't lying? What's her credibility rating?
:smokin:
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What proof is there Chris was involved? The word of the shooter? A girlfriend? That's hardly conclusive evidence. Don't jurors need more to convict somebody?
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Can you provide a link to the public records?
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Posted on Tue, Mar. 29, 2005
CORAL GABLES
Son wanted in brutal attack on parents
The son of a Coral Gables couple has been implicated in the 2004 shootings that left his mother dead and his father blind, Miami-Dade police say.
BY LUISA YANEZ AND CHARLES RABIN
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/ne ... 253970.htm (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/11253970.htm)
----------------
FYI: Chris Sutton was ultimately arrested. Not sure if he is out on bail. Perhaps someone can update us?
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There is no link to the public records referred to in the posting. To obtain these documents, you must contact the state attorney's office and there is a fee for the documents.
However, other public records, like criminal cases, for Miami-Dade, can be accessed at http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com (http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com)
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Looks like Chris Sutton was charged with 4 counts, and is being held in jail, no bail.
1 MURDER 1ST DEGREE FELONY
2 MURDER/PREMED/ATT/FA FELONY
3 ATTEMPT FEL MURDER FELONY
4 BURGLARY/ASSLT/ARMED
Guess we will just have to wait and see what comes out at trial.
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So how long was this kid in the program in Samoa?
Is his attorney aware that 2 former residents of this same program committed suicide? Christopher Landre and Corey Murphy.
Not exactly a 100% satisfaction rate, I'd say.
REST IN PEACE CHRIS AND COREY.
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chriss was in samoa for 2 1/2 years (age 16 - 19, december 1995 - april 1999) chriss is still in jail. there is no bond. he has a lawyer whose name is listed on the miami dade clerk's page. i'm tired of reading posts that make accusations and demand a verdict long before the trial has even taken place. please remember that this is a country where we are innocent until proven guilty...a fact that is quite ofter overlooked. even i don't know what happened...i'm tired of people believing everything they read in the newspapers...i'm tired of people believing what they want to believe instead of the truth...i've posted as much of my story on this site as i am going to...to protect myself and to protect chriss...if you really want to know the WHOLE story (a least the very little that i know) i would, not necessarily be happy to, but willing to entertain the idea...i have posted how to get in touch with me numerous times...
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[/quote]
How do you know she isn't lying? What's her credibility rating?
:smokin: "
[/quote]
ha ha...thanks for the laugh...
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On 2005-09-19 06:56:00, ari wrote:
"chriss was in samoa for 2 1/2 years (age 16 - 19, december 1995 - april 1999) chriss is still in jail. there is no bond. he has a lawyer whose name is listed on the miami dade clerk's page. i'm tired of reading posts that make accusations and demand a verdict long before the trial has even taken place. please remember that this is a country where we are innocent until proven guilty...a fact that is quite ofter overlooked. even i don't know what happened...i'm tired of people believing everything they read in the newspapers...i'm tired of people believing what they want to believe instead of the truth...i've posted as much of my story on this site as i am going to...to protect myself and to protect chriss...if you really want to know the WHOLE story (a least the very little that i know) i would, not necessarily be happy to, but willing to entertain the idea...i have posted how to get in touch with me numerous times..."
Man, that's a long time to be in a program like the one he was sent to. Were there a lot of kids from FLorida sent to Paradise Cove? Surprised his parents didn't send him to TB instead. Much closer to home. WOnder how his parents heard about this program?
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there were quite a few kids from florida in samoa...i guess chris' parents thought that tb was too tame...out of site out of mind
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Found this on PURE website, written by Sue Scheff regarding Lynn Pretzfeld, a former WWASPS recruiter.
-----------------------------------
*As a footnote for their Marketing, when I was searching I was recruited by a Miami based parent that has made a mission (in many peoples? opinions) of building this pyramid for WWASP. Although she claimed she had no financial gain from this, we have further learned that she collects large sums of money for her involvement with WWASP. Although she states she makes her income from her Title Company, it was discovered that she was arrested in February 2002 on charges of illegally diverting nearly $6 million in trust money through a variety of schemes. Lynn Pretzfeld, of Miami Florida, was charged with conspiracy to commit racketeering and grand theft.
According to the Florida Department of Insurance, the now closed Title Examiners Inc. diverted money into personal accounts from escrow accounts.
UPDATE - According to public record, on June 3, 2003, Lynn Pretzfeld is now a Convicted Felon and on 10 years probation as well as paying restitution. Case #F02003735B (Click here to view PDF file)
http://www.helpyourteens.com/true_story.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/true_story.html)
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On 2005-09-19 06:56:00, ari wrote:
"chriss was in samoa for 2 1/2 years (age 16 - 19, december 1995 - april 1999) chriss is still in jail. there is no bond. he has a lawyer whose name is listed on the miami dade clerk's page. i'm tired of reading posts that make accusations and demand a verdict long before the trial has even taken place. please remember that this is a country where we are innocent until proven guilty...a fact that is quite ofter overlooked. even i don't know what happened...i'm tired of people believing everything they read in the newspapers...i'm tired of people believing what they want to believe instead of the truth...i've posted as much of my story on this site as i am going to...to protect myself and to protect chriss...if you really want to know the WHOLE story (a least the very little that i know) i would, not necessarily be happy to, but willing to entertain the idea...i have posted how to get in touch with me numerous times..."
Hi Ari, thanks for the info. Chris stayed until he was 19? Or is that a typo? Either way, I wonder if the parents ever saw the 48 Hours special on Paradise Cove? Dateline NBC also did a show, both of which raised very troubling questions about this program. And of course, there is the matter of the two suicides, Chris Landre and Corey Murphy which raises HUGE RED FLAGS.
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Oh yeah, forgot to ask:
Did Chris's parents visit him in Samoa? If so, they would have known this was no elite boarding school. It was a primtiive behavior mod program. What did they hope to accomplish by keeping their kid in a program thousands of miles from home so long?????
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On 2005-09-19 09:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Oh yeah, forgot to ask:
Did Chris's parents visit him in Samoa? If so, they would have known this was no elite boarding school. It was a primtiive behavior mod program. What did they hope to accomplish by keeping their kid in a program thousands of miles from home so long?????"
On 2005-09-19 09:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
Hi Ari, thanks for the info. Chris stayed until he was 19? Or is that a typo? Either way, I wonder if the parents ever saw the 48 Hours special on Paradise Cove? Dateline NBC also did a show, both of which raised very troubling questions about this program. And of course, there is the matter of the two suicides, Chris Landre and Corey Murphy which raises HUGE RED FLAGS."
no, it was not a typo. he was there until his 19th birthday. that was the day he left. i know that I saw the dateline and 48 hours show, totally by chance as well, however, those were after he returned...his family and myself actually attended a benefit for landre to raise money for the programs (twisted right). his parents visited him once during his extended stay...from what have heard from chriss and well as other students, quite a show is put on for the parents...the parents are also told when they enter their child in the program that their child will lie to them and to not believe anything that they say...supposedly, chriss' parents did ALMOST pull him from the program when they got a picture of him. if you don't know him or have ever seen a picture of him - here a description: 5'10", 215 pounds, football player build, an almost round face, full cheeks. the picture they got of him shows him at 170-ish pounds, sunken eyes, cheek bones protruding. a SCARY transformation. but they talked to the people at the program who convinced them that he was "okay..." i know that they hoped that he would become "better" and be well adjusted...i'm not exactly sure how that works out though...they say jail is for rehabilitation too...
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Randy Cook's own postings of his experiences were pulled. Originally he had several complaints of abusiveness by Paradise Cove staff, but now he works for WWASP. His mom is Glenda Gabriel (formerly Glenda Ikuta) and landed him a job.
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On 2005-11-06 19:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Randy Cook's own postings of his experiences were pulled. Originally he had several complaints of abusiveness by Paradise Cove staff, but now he works for WWASP. His mom is Glenda Gabriel (formerly Glenda Ikuta) and landed him a job."
I've read complaints written by survivors of TB that state that Randy Cook was one of the most abusive staff members there. (I don't know if he still works there of if he moved on to another gulag, though). It's sad that he feels like he must inflict on others the pain and abuse he has suffered at the hands of WWASPS. But, it's not surprising-- WWASPS is a cult, and has the ability to indoctrinate its members to believe that abuse is "discipline", that emotional breakdowns are "progress", that Lifespring seminars are "therapy", and that the program is never wrong.
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tb wasnt around when chris sutton went to samoa. the 48 hours special didnt come out till long after sutton was in samoa. there were a lot of kids from florida in samoa because of lynn pretzfeld, greg's mother. randy cook was my first or second family leader in samoa. i think he staffed a seminar of mine, cant remember, been a decade now, but he was never a dick to me.
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On 2005-11-17 17:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" the 48 hours special didnt come out till long after sutton was in samoa."
it was aired on october 15, 1998...6 months and 2 days after chris left samoa...
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so if i did my math right, sutton left april 13 98? 1 week before i left. (4/20/98) we both lived on fagatele at the end, but i dont remember when he left.
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yes, you did your math right. sutton left Paradise Cove on his birthday, April 13, 1998.
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Did you know the Flood kid?
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On 2005-11-20 09:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"yes, you did your math right. sutton left Paradise Cove on his birthday, April 13, 1998."
yeah...his 19th birthday....
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No, I didn't know the Flood kid - I wasn't there with him, I am someone he met later when he got out.
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< He was not abused while there. I was there with him and very close to him when he came home and for all the following years as well as with his family.
i'm trying to figure out who you are 'cause i was closer than most..."
Who are you cuz I was there also. When Chris got out of limbo and came to my family group he had no hair on his ankles and wrist's from being hogtied with ducttape. I think Chris is responsible for killing his parents not the program. The program is responsible for massive amounts of abuse that occurred there. I myself was gagged with ducttape and had my left wrist cuffed to my right ankle and my right wrist cuffed to my left ankle. FYI that's not a very natural position the staff had to bend my appendages to get them to reach each other behind my back. I don't know what program u where in but you are either repressing it or were one of the compliant ones who was lucky enough to never been to isolation; in which case you don't know and should'nt talk.
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Tranquility bay did'nt exist at the time Chris was placed into the program.
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Randy started an transport company with another guy from PC and then imbezzled some money and fled. I'm sure he is probably still involved with the program somewhere. In samoa his mother forced us to write these form letters to our parents telling them to attend the seminars. We would be given cat.3's and sent to isolation if we refused. I don't have a use for either of them.
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On 2005-11-22 14:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
< He was not abused while there. I was there with him and very close to him when he came home and for all the following years as well as with his family.
i'm trying to figure out who you are 'cause i was closer than most..."
Who are you cuz I was there also. When Chris got out of limbo and came to my family group he had no hair on his ankles and wrist's from being hogtied with ducttape. I think Chris is responsible for killing his parents not the program. The program is responsible for massive amounts of abuse that occurred there. I myself was gagged with ducttape and had my left wrist cuffed to my right ankle and my right wrist cuffed to my left ankle. FYI that's not a very natural position the staff had to bend my appendages to get them to reach each other behind my back. I don't know what program u where in but you are either repressing it or were one of the compliant ones who was lucky enough to never been to isolation; in which case you don't know and should'nt talk."
hey...i went back in the posts to find out where this quote came from...there was an error on the post...the person who said "i'm trying to figure out who you are 'cause i was closer than most," was me...i was responding to the claim of chriss never being abused...i know that's bullshit...he's told me about being hogtied and the iso box and limbo...and on and on... i agree with you that anyone who is trying to say that the program was not abusive either wasn't there or is seriously supressing memories...
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can anyone post the correct family he was in and if you know him as well as you say, where did he have a boil(very wierd spot)
the reason i want to know is because i think i was in his family for the last few months of his stay. also i would like to contact someone that was there to talk with them. I dont know anymore. that place deffinently changed me and i need some answers! Help[ This Message was edited by: IDunno on 2005-11-23 14:32 ]
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On 2005-11-20 19:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Did you know the Flood kid?"
jake flood? he was really good at playing harmonica. he left early on in my stay, but ill always remember that harmonica.
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On 2005-11-23 14:16:00, IDunno wrote:
"can anyone post the correct family he was in and if you know him as well as you say, where did he have a boil(very wierd spot)
the reason i want to know is because i think i was in his family for the last few months of his stay. also i would like to contact someone that was there to talk with them. I dont know anymore. that place deffinently changed me and i need some answers! Help[ This Message was edited by: IDunno on 2005-11-23 14:32 ]"
i was in 2 families on fagatele, the first fale from the hill, and the fifth fale from the hill, which were spirit and peace. sutton was in one of the families between the two, but i cant remember the name. (im pretty sure he was in freedom in le tiara) i knew most people on fagatele as of when i left 4-20-98. i am curious as to who you are. anyone who was there feel free to e-mail me rocbola@yahoo.com
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no you wouldnt know me because i arrived later that year. I thought about it and it is not that important. what chris did was so very wrong and if he was that pissed at his parents there are many other ways to get back at them. but killing is stupidity. people dont realize that you will go to a place far worse than samoa for a lot longer if you kill.
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Chris was in freedom at Le Tiara after he had gotten dropped. Tau was our father until he was fired for throwing Fred into the creek we bathed in. We all had boils It's hard for me to remember back that far but I seem to remember something like on his cheek.
I was there in freedom with Chris Landre also. Can anyone remember the last name of that Justin kid from Alaska? The one that went insane and was left in isolation for several months talking to poeple that were'nt there and doing headcounts by himself. I was in wisdom when Clay Bowman went off the deep end. I was there when Sergio ratted out our group for escape plans to duane lee. Sergio was not sent to iso. for run plans he was only given worksheets for that. He went there often however but usually for refusing. Does anyone remember Adriano? I wonder how the program thought they could help him. I think they were more concerned with helping his mother out of 1000's of dollars. Does anyone remember Jingle Bells being sung in Le Tiarra Iso?
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Juliette Driscoll is an accomplice to murder and should be behind bars.
Juliette, what are you thankful for today? That you're alive and you can see?
You will be haunted for the rest of your life.
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people dont realize that you will go to a place far worse than samoa for a lot longer if you kill."
[/quote]
Are you talking about hell or prison? Because prison would be like a five star hotel compared to Samoa. :???:
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You better believe that Chriss will be in hell in State Prison and will prefer to be in Samoa!!!!HE had NO excuse for killing his Mother and blinding his father AND hurting his sister!!!!
He is a Killer and Juliette is an Acomplice to murder. She deserves to be locked away for the rest of her life.
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I'm not excusing his actions if he did kill his mother. I'm not convicting him because I was'nt there. He is on trial but other than by you he has not been found guilty yet. Should he be found guilty then I think he deserves whatever sentence he gets. It's not up to me.
As far as Samoa goes I can understand him possibly harboring resentment towards his parents for sending him to such a messed up place. I don't think that would in any way justify murder at all. But I could see him being resentful easily.
And BTW FYI the limbo program and Le tiarra make american prison look like a five star resort.
They have decent food and running water. Medical treatment personal educated beyond high school. A bed. They don't usually restrain you unless you are really physically out of control. Many prisons have educational programs allowing inmates to take real accredited course and earn real diplomas. Something Browning Academy cannot boast.
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Hey does anyone remember when Ross Nagler got his nose broken when Faragi (FRANK) the staff kicked him in the face? Or what about when Stone hit Andy in the back of the head with a rock and split his head open? They fired stone but then re-hired him like a month later because his uncle was the Maatai (chief) of the village that the program rented its land from.
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Does anyone remember when we couldn't shower for two weeks at Le Tiarra cuz the water stopped working? How about when we had to manually flush the toilets with a bucket of water? We were'nt allowed to flush until at least 10 people had done a #2 any sooner and it was "manipulation" and you were given a consequence fo asking.
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I am not going to debate Samoa with you because for each person with an abuse story, there is someone with a success story.
I am happy that you do agree that IF Chriss is guilty, Samoa is NOT a reason for murder and he should suffer whatever penalty the jury and judge say.
Thank you for acknowledging that MURDER is wrong no matter what.
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The people in Mew Orleans, Alabama and Mississippi and Florida couldn't shower for longer than that and many still do not have any assistance. Is that abuse??? No, it is just life.
Try living in Cuba and then tell me about abuse.
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Try eating food that has been stamped grade C and living in unsanitary conditions with scabies and whatnot for two years. The people in New Orleans went without showers because of a natural disaster. We went without showers because of pure negligence. Hardly the same thing. Furthermore since the cost of running their operation in Samoa was so inexpensive due to the minimal quality of food obtained and the inexpensive staff labor: You would think that they would have decreased their fees making the program affordable to more teens needing help. The $2'000 dollar per month tuition of one student just about covers the amount of rice they purchase for the entire facility for a month. Mix in some grade C lamb "meat"(actually fat and byproduct) Then throw a couple of $35 dollar per week untrained staff salaries. Well the numbers just don't add up. They are a business and I can understand a need to make a profit after it's all said and done but my oh my 400 kids at $2500 per month is $1,000,000.00 Giving them the benefit of the doubt maybe ,maybe $10 to $15k went towards running the facility. I mean food, staff the whole 10 yards. The rest is divided up between the program director and WWASP. But no they deserve that money and no your child doesn't deserve sandals for 6 months or running water or sanitary conditions or nutritiously sound food.
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Try living in Cuba and then tell me about abuse."
[/quote]
Try living in Samoa and more specifically Le Tiarra or being on the limbo program. Cuba would be a cake walk. I have several good friends from Cuba.
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What's the status of this case? When it's going to trial? And who is Julliette?
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On 2005-11-24 11:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Chris was in freedom at Le Tiara after he had gotten dropped. Tau was our father until he was fired for throwing Fred into the creek we bathed in. We all had boils It's hard for me to remember back that far but I seem to remember something like on his cheek.
I was there in freedom with Chris Landre also. Can anyone remember the last name of that Justin kid from Alaska? The one that went insane and was left in isolation for several months talking to poeple that were'nt there and doing headcounts by himself. I was in wisdom when Clay Bowman went off the deep end. I was there when Sergio ratted out our group for escape plans to duane lee. Sergio was not sent to iso. for run plans he was only given worksheets for that. He went there often however but usually for refusing. Does anyone remember Adriano? I wonder how the program thought they could help him. I think they were more concerned with helping his mother out of 1000's of dollars. Does anyone remember Jingle Bells being sung in Le Tiarra Iso? "
Now why would Chris Landre kill himself?
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On 2005-11-26 14:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-11-24 11:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Chris was in freedom at Le Tiara after he had gotten dropped. Tau was our father until he was fired for throwing Fred into the creek we bathed in. We all had boils It's hard for me to remember back that far but I seem to remember something like on his cheek.
I was there in freedom with Chris Landre also. Can anyone remember the last name of that Justin kid from Alaska? The one that went insane and was left in isolation for several months talking to poeple that were'nt there and doing headcounts by himself. I was in wisdom when Clay Bowman went off the deep end. I was there when Sergio ratted out our group for escape plans to duane lee. Sergio was not sent to iso. for run plans he was only given worksheets for that. He went there often however but usually for refusing. Does anyone remember Adriano? I wonder how the program thought they could help him. I think they were more concerned with helping his mother out of 1000's of dollars. Does anyone remember Jingle Bells being sung in Le Tiarra Iso? "
Now why would Chris Landre kill himself?"
Or that other kid, from El Paso who shot himself, Corey Murphy?
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I knew both Chris Landre and Corey Murphy very well. Landre was only in the program for around 6 months 4 of which he spent in freedom family at Le Tiarra before heading to the beach.
I was in Le Tiarra with Corey Murphy as well as on Sinalele Beach and then in Montana at SCL. They were both great guys I never expected either of them to kill themselves. I am saddened to see Chris's parents especially forever stuck in a " what if" frame of mind "what if" we had left him in the program longer maybe he'd still be here. I say "what if" both of these troubled young men had received quality help at the hands of licensed professionals instead of being institutionalized in a facility run by a corrupt money hungry corporation. They might still be alive.
I think it's safe to say that obviously had issues that were not dealt with in Chris's 6 month stay or Corey's THREE PLUS years in the program.
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Hey I found out that Eddie Bueno (you know featured as a sucess story on I believe the 48 expo on the program) and another graduate were hired and then fired from Spring Creek Lodge for their drinking and consumption of alcohol.
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Another program graduate a "Charles Mitchell" was also fired from there some years back for crashing his mustang under the influence. I think their sucess rate is not quite what they claim it is.
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On 2005-11-26 09:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey does anyone remember when Ross Nagler got his nose broken when Faragi (FRANK) the staff kicked him in the face? Or what about when Stone hit Andy in the back of the head with a rock and split his head open? They fired stone but then re-hired him like a month later because his uncle was the Maatai (chief) of the village that the program rented its land from."
stone was an asshole but nobody could do anything about it cause of his family connections. does anyone remember that white dog that got thrown off the sinalele cliff?
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It was monkey! It was thrown over the cliff to get a rise out of Stephen Frederickson who was like 11 or 12 at the time. I think one of the staff later killed it with a machete. It was thrown over during a facility meeting where the majority of the kids from all three beaches were present I think the meeting was called by Dace regarding some change in the school procedures or something. I remember he thought it was pretty funny.
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On 2005-11-26 09:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Does anyone remember when we couldn't shower for two weeks at Le Tiarra cuz the water stopped working? How about when we had to manually flush the toilets with a bucket of water? We were'nt allowed to flush until at least 10 people had done a #2 any sooner and it was "manipulation" and you were given a consequence fo asking. "
yea the shit got so bad it was sticking up through the rim, and everyone had the shits, but they limited toilet paper. i was in lolo's family and tau used to come over and steal shit from us. in his lavalava. he was from freedom which had atul, rocky, sergio, sutton, etc. i got sent back to le tiara from sinalele later on and went to freedom with lorenzo as father. going to the river was kinda cool though. at least it got you away from le tiara.
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He was really attached to that dog it was almost like his teddy bear. He seemed scared shitless to be there in a program at such a young age surrounded by older boys many of who ostracized him and some who even attempted to kill him in order to get the program shut down.
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Yeah but for a while there was no river they just waited for the water to come back on, it did'nt.
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On 2005-11-26 16:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It was monkey! It was thrown over the cliff to get a rise out of Stephen Frederickson who was like 11 or 12 at the time. I think one of the staff later killed it with a machete. It was thrown over during a facility meeting where the majority of the kids from all three beaches were present I think the meeting was called by Dace regarding some change in the school procedures or something. I remember he thought it was pretty funny. "
i was there!!! that steven kid was so annoying! well he was a young kid though. hey you remember "kung fu joe"? we made this poor kid think we were all gay. even vais (a samoan father) participated. he ran off down fagatele screaming "i know kung fu, stay away from me!"
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Do remember the Justin kid that was like shcitzophrenic and locked in the isolation box for several months? He was from alaska I'm just trying to find his last name.
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That's hilarious. I was mostly on sinalele. My buddy Atul was on sinalele along with another friend Arif.
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On 2005-11-26 16:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yeah but for a while there was no river they just waited for the water to come back on, it did'nt."
i remember that. the river was only when we really really needed to shower. i remember showering in the rain coming off of a le tiara roof. the only good thing about le tiara was the fresh bread. by the time it got to the beach it was stale. i still hate ramen noodles tuna rice and lamb!
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It was fresh bread at Le tiarra because it was closer to the bakery. It was still russian roulette though we always found beetles and things that were baked in.
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Uggh the lamb was stamped grade C it had like 1 1/2 inches of fat and 1/8 of an inch of really stringy meat. Then put curry all over it.
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On 2005-11-26 16:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That's hilarious. I was mostly on sinalele. My buddy Atul was on sinalele along with another friend Arif."
i knew arif. he was on fagatele before going to sinalele. i was in freedom le tiara with atul, plus my first 2 seminars, we left together and were in mexico together. i wonder how he's doing now? i talked to him once or twice right after we got back. justin from alaska? yea i remember him. he had a brother there too i think. his last name is right there, but i cant quite remember now.
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What about the mackeral do you remember that? You could smell whoever had eaten it like three days later. Supposedly one of the case managers brothers had gotten food poisioning and died from eating mackeral.
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Then you were in freedom family with me and in seminars with me as well.
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I emailed Atul and talked to him a little bit after the program he was working construction in Hawaii but that was years ago.
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I think Justin's family sued for his breakdown but the program had good lawyers and said it was a previously existing condition. I'm sure being locked in a box for several months helped him alot.
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On 2005-11-26 16:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Uggh the lamb was stamped grade C it had like 1 1/2 inches of fat and 1/8 of an inch of really stringy meat. Then put curry all over it."
the lamb made me puke the second night of my focus at le tiara. what was that cheap ketchup like substance they smothered it with? this is stuff i thought id remember forever. ill never forget the boiled chicken. i still have a picture of myself right after i got back, i was very very skinny. arms like an ethiopian.
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On 2005-11-26 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What about the mackeral do you remember that? You could smell whoever had eaten it like three days later. Supposedly one of the case managers brothers had gotten food poisioning and died from eating mackeral."
eww that mackeral was so fucking nasty! it made me miss the tuna.
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Were you in freedom when Tau got fired and was replaced by Frank and Sio?
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On 2005-11-26 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Then you were in freedom family with me and in seminars with me as well."
no shit? when were you there? i was in spirit originally at le tiara then got level 2, went to love family sinalele, then back to freedom in le tiara. i was there 96 to 98
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DO you remember James Stuart I think is the last name arriving to spirit family in Le Tiarra with blood red eyes looking like satan after Ed Ortega had choked him at brightway until the blood vessals in his eyes all popped. Then they shipped him to Samoa and no more eveidence.
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I was there from 96 to 98 also. I was in freedom family for a long time at le tiarra but was switched to spirit with mikaele and sent to faga level one beach pissed of Dace was shipped back to Le Tiarra into wisdom family where Clay Bowman went insane and then Sinalele till I went to Montana.
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On 2005-11-26 16:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Were you in freedom when Tau got fired and was replaced by Frank and Sio?"
i remember when tau got fired, and i think i was still in spirit le tiara. when i was in freedom lorenzo was father and atul was in it for his second time. did you have oury for focus duane for discovery? do you remember that "breakpoint" seminar? i got kicked out of that.
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Yep Duane for discovery oury for focus and Lou for breakpoint the four day version
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On 2005-11-26 16:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was there from 96 to 98 also. I was in freedom family for a long time at le tiarra but was switched to spirit with mikaele and sent to faga level one beach pissed of Dace was shipped back to Le Tiarra into wisdom family where Clay Bowman went insane and then Sinalele till I went to Montana."
i remember clay bowman. do you remember adriano? i never knew if they were faking or not. which fale was wisdom? i think i was in that too. fale nine? then they made love family with all the little kids.
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On 2005-11-26 16:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yep Duane for discovery oury for focus and Lou for breakpoint the four day version"
dude i was in all those seminars. im sure i know you. who are you?
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They weren't faking they had real mental diorders that the program was not qualified to deal with. They were berated for having mental problems and constantly told that they were "faking it" just because the one size fits all program methods did'nt cure the illnesses.
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You know me, I pretty sure I know who you are too. Is your screenname on here Bola?
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On 2005-11-26 16:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"DO you remember James Stuart I think is the last name arriving to spirit family in Le Tiarra with blood red eyes looking like satan after Ed Ortega had choked him at brightway until the blood vessals in his eyes all popped. Then they shipped him to Samoa and no more eveidence."
Was that his last name?
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Is that you Ryan or am I mistaken?
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On 2005-11-26 16:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You know me, I pretty sure I know who you are too. Is your screenname on here Bola?"
yea it is. that was nickname i got while playing basketball in mexico. i was playing 1 on 1 with atul, and was actually winning, which was rare. my name is jeambey which gets said as "jimbey" which turned into "jimbola" and soon enough jake pressney started calling me bola during the game. he kept yelling out "bola shoots" or "bola scores" which embarrased atul and i hated the name but it stuck! dace started calling me bola, all the teachers, everyone. anyway, who are you? i know i know you, but its killing me now to know!
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Jingle Bells Jingle Bells Jingle all the way to Iso.
That should be a big hint. You should get it from that if not I'll email you.
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On 2005-11-26 16:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-11-26 16:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"DO you remember James Stuart I think is the last name arriving to spirit family in Le Tiarra with blood red eyes looking like satan after Ed Ortega had choked him at brightway until the blood vessals in his eyes all popped. Then they shipped him to Samoa and no more eveidence."
Was that his last name?"
that name doesnt sound familiar. james stewart was an actor. but i remember a kid named james. all the names are so distant now. i used to know most people by name there.
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He was in Spirit family le tiara and I remember his first name was James.
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On 2005-11-26 17:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Jingle Bells Jingle Bells Jingle all the way to Iso.
That should be a big hint. You should get it from that if not I'll email you."
i think i know? i have it narrowed down to maybe 2 or 3 people. you from phoenix? rocbola@yahoo.com
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come to think of it he went to montana too not long after I did I'm fairly certain his last name was Stuart. Oh well.
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You've got mail.
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"Does anyone remember when we couldn't shower for two weeks at Le Tiarra cuz the water stopped working? How about when we had to manually flush the toilets with a bucket of water? We were'nt allowed to flush until at least 10 people had done a #2 any sooner and it was "manipulation" and you were given a consequence fo asking. "
[/quote] yea the shit got so bad it was sticking up through the rim, and everyone had the shits, but they limited toilet paper. i was in lolo's family and tau used to come over and steal shit from us. in his lavalava. he was from freedom which had atul, rocky, sergio, sutton, etc. i got sent back to le tiara from sinalele later on and went to freedom with lorenzo as father. going to the river was kinda cool though. at least it got you away from le tiara."
[/quote]
I remember the poo sticking up higher than the toilet seat many times before we were allowed to flush it
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The similarities are just scarier and scarier!!!!
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Isn't it amazing that ALL ofyou survived and did NOT go insane or become psychopaths?
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On 2005-11-26 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Isn't it amazing that ALL ofyou survived and did NOT go insane or become psychopaths?"
Yup 89% graduate success rate, just ask Corey Murphy.
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On 2005-11-26 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Isn't it amazing that ALL ofyou survived and did NOT go insane or become psychopaths?"
how do you kow im not insane? or a psychopath? or dead? huh?
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Le Tiera was a hellhole. Brian Viafunua got rich off you little kids and is still in the business with a program called Midwest Academy. Hope your parents figured out they all got scammed and have made it up to their children for abandoning them during their teenage years. NO use being angry, better to help other parents and kids from not being duped like your folks were.
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Le Tiera was a hellhole. Brian Viafunua got rich off you little kids and is still in the business with a program called Midwest Academy. Hope your parents figured out they all got scammed and have made it up to their children for abandoning them during their teenage years. NO use being angry, better to help other parents and kids from not being duped like your folks were.
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My parents feel totally duped. They had no idea as to the conditions of the facility and were warned against my "manipulation" the funny thing was I did'nt even bother telling them what it was like there. I wouldn't even write them for the first several months. When I did write them I knew that the program had already sucked them into their web of deceit and didn't even try to say how horrible it was. I didn't want to get in trouble and be given consequences. I don't blame my parents though. They truly believed that they were sending me to get help. The people running the program are who I find fault with, they're the ones who flat out lied and purposely misled my parents as to the true nature of the program. When my parents found out how things really were they felt so bad that they had sent me there and were really angry at all of the deceit from the program. I try not to even bring it up around them cuz then my mom starts crying and my dad starts choking up and apologizing saying they were only trying to help and honestly thought it would be good for me... that's what the program led them to believe.
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Aw! Yeah, my step mom is like that sometimes. And her son and I have been out for over 20 years now. She's a little senile, so there's just no point in trying to explain anymore.
Please tell your rents for me, if it ever comes up again, that a whole LOT of us who have been through various programs really and truely understand and forgive our parents. Hell, some of us have grown kids who scared the living shit out of us at times. I, for one, really and truely understand that part of it. If I didn't know better from firsthand exp., I might have made the very same mistake.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
-- Hunter S. Thompson
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my parents still dont think it was a bad place. my mom still says stuff like "whenever i hear about one of your old friends, im so glad you went to samoa" even though ive told them repeatedly what it was like. i truly believe they were good intentioned, though. just a little naive.
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On 2005-11-26 08:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
He is a Killer and Juliette is an Acomplice to murder. She deserves to be locked away for the rest of her life."
at least he knows who his accusers are..
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On 2005-11-28 09:20:00, ari wrote:
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On 2005-11-26 08:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
He is a Killer and Juliette is an Acomplice to murder. She deserves to be locked away for the rest of her life."
at least he knows who his accusers are.."
No doubt, they must have privaledged evidence or witnessed it. Sounds like an angry wwaspie, I mean someone on trial for murder should be entitled to the court system unless they say anything bad about the program. Then they are automatically guilty. Quick carry out the death penalty before Chris can shed any light on the skeletons in wwasps closet. Not at all saying murder would be justified if he even did it but there is also the fact that abuse did occur.
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On 2005-11-28 09:20:00, ari wrote:
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On 2005-11-26 08:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
He is a Killer and Juliette is an Acomplice to murder. She deserves to be locked away for the rest of her life."
at least he knows who his accusers are.."
Ari/Juliette is his accuser. She has agreed to testify against him. Ari, did you see the trial is scheduled to begin 12/12/05? We can catch up at the trial and you can teach me how to talk out of both sides of my mouth, like you do.
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On 2005-11-28 12:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-28 09:20:00, ari wrote:
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On 2005-11-26 08:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
He is a Killer and Juliette is an Acomplice to murder. She deserves to be locked away for the rest of her life."
at least he knows who his accusers are.."
Ari/Juliette is his accuser. She has agreed to testify against him. Ari, did you see the trial is scheduled to begin 12/12/05? We can catch up at the trial and you can teach me how to talk out of both sides of my mouth, like you do."
nah...i'm not his accuser...that'd be garrett and anyone who has already decided that he's guilty...you don't know my side of the story or what happended to me the day i was taken in by the police...i've posted on here many times for people to see the media for what it is, as entertainment...as i've even spoken with the s.a. regarding the fact that the miami herald article told lies...i was told that that is what the media does...nobody has spoken with me from the media to hear my side...but for now...my side is exactly that...mine...
and as far as the trial on 12/12...i doubt it's going forward...my subpoena hasn't shown up yet...
who are you anyway??? you talk like you know me...
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OK... what % of the teens who were in Samoa killed themselves? killed others? were insitutionalized for mental disorders due to "abuse" suffered in Samoa? have gone on with their lives?
You keep referring to Chris Landre and Corey Murphy, and their deaths are devastating, but their are many teen suicides of teenagers who have never been in any programs. Their are adult suicides of adults who have never been in any programs. The percentages on not in favor of teens who have been in programs.
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Juliette. we all know you. We know all about you. We know about you and Chriss. We know about your personal life. We know how you knew that Chriss said many times he wanted his parents dead. We know that you never said anything. We know Chriss cheated on you. We know you were his puppet. Girlie, we know everything.
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This is not about WWASP. This is about someone who is currently in jail awaiting a trial for supposedly murdering his mother and attempting to murder his father. If he is guilty, he will be punished. If not, so be it. Don't make this about a program......Make it about murder - no matter who did it.
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On 2005-11-28 13:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Juliette. we all know you. We know all about you. We know about you and Chriss. We know about your personal life. We know how you knew that Chriss said many times he wanted his parents dead. We know that you never said anything. We know Chriss cheated on you. We know you were his puppet. Girlie, we know everything."
first of all...you don't know everything because you haven't talked to me...but guessing from your tone it doesn't matter what i have to say...i'm interested to know what you "know" about me and chriss and what you "know" about my personal life...and i'm also interested to know how you heard that he cheated on me...so far even i haven't been able to get a concrete answer on that one...
and again...i'd really like to know who you are...instead of hiding behind the faces of the masses[ This Message was edited by: ari on 2005-11-28 14:06 ]
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He cheated on you many times. I know and I will see you in Court. You can count on it.
Letting Susan and John and Melissa think you liked them and then being a part of this!! BURN IN HELL WITH CHRISS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND GARRET!!!!
Someone alluded to the fact that you were "ditsy". Well, you are really dumber than dumb!!!
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On 2005-11-28 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK... what % of the teens who were in Samoa killed themselves? killed others? were insitutionalized for mental disorders due to "abuse" suffered in Samoa? have gone on with their lives?
You keep referring to Chris Landre and Corey Murphy, and their deaths are devastating, but their are many teen suicides of teenagers who have never been in any programs. Their are adult suicides of adults who have never been in any programs. The percentages on not in favor of teens who have been in programs."
They both committed suicide in exactly the same fashion. I knew them both and their deaths were a while apart. I was still in Samoa when Chris killed himself. Then I had been home a while when Corey who I was in Montana with also killed himself. No the program did not make them pull the triggers. They pulled the triggers on themselves after quarreling with their parents and being threatened with re-entry into the program.
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Wwasp is an evil organization who decieves and takes advantage of vulnerable parents for financial gain, as well as abusing the children in their care in many cases. Were it not so Samoa, Cancun, Casa ,Moravia, Brightway, Costa Rica, and High Impact would all still be open. They did'nt close due to financial problems. They made tons of money. They closed for abusing children.
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On 2005-11-28 17:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
They pulled the triggers on themselves after quarreling with their parents and being threatened with re-entry into the program.
I know of one case exactly like that out of Straight, Inc. There are a bunch of confirmed suicides among former clients. But, of course, you can't really attribute the cause w/ 100% accuracy. But you have to stop and take notice when the same scenario plays out again and again.
This kid's mom put him in the program w/ his twin brother. Both boys ran away from the program, but the mother dutifully followed the program. That meant that she changed the locks on the doors and effectively disowned her sons while continuing to allow their home to be used as housing for current program clients. Some time later, she let the boys move back into the home, but the Program had replaced the family. They found the one buy on their mother's bed after he shot himself in the head. Scattered around the bed were all of the dead bolts and motion detectors used to turn their home into a locked facility for program newcomers.
You can tell yourselves these suicides have nothing to do with the program if it makes you feel better. But it won't make your kids feel any better. So I suppose it just depends on whether or not you're adult enough and compassionate enough to have the broad shoulders or whether you want to go on laying it all on the kids.
Remember, they'll be the ones voting for or against safe retirement homes, food assistance and other things you'll need when you're too old and weak to fend for yourselves. I'd give it some thought if I were you.
Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Webster's
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On 2005-11-28 17:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-28 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"They pulled the triggers on themselves after quarreling with their parents and being threatened with re-entry into the program."
Do you know this for a fact? I knew about Corey but the details of Chris's death are not widely known.
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Look at the statistics of how many teen suicides there are and what the cause "might"be. It is very hard to know what went on in the mind of a teen who has committed suicide, both emotionally and physically, in their family and in society.
None of us know what the teen was thinking that brought him to the brink of suicide. Most teen suicides are accidents that "went too far". Many of us have said at one time or another "I wish I was dead" or I just want to die", but we do not all act upon it.
We just do not know what or why someone takes their life.
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WRONG. try again as to the reason they closed. YOUR reason is so incorrect.
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nah...i'm not his accuser...that'd be garrett and anyone who has already decided that he's guilty...you don't know my side of the story or what happended to me the day i was taken in by the police...i've posted on here many times for people to see the media for what it is, as entertainment...as i've even spoken with the s.a. regarding the fact that the miami herald article told lies...i was told that that is what the media does...nobody has spoken with me from the media to hear my side...but for now...my side is exactly that...mine...
and as far as the trial on 12/12...i doubt it's going forward...my subpoena hasn't shown up yet...
who are you anyway??? you talk like you know me..."
[/quote]
Unfortunately, I do know you. So your subpoena hasn't shown up yet? Sounds to me that you plan on testifying! And to save face and help your future not be haunted, I doubt you will testify on Chriss' behalf.
As for what the media said and printed about you, it is all true; you stated those things to the police and you swore it was a correct statement and you signed it. Your statements are public documents; we all have read them and the media only stated what you said and swore to in the statement.
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Unfortunately, I do know you. So your subpoena hasn't shown up yet? Sounds to me that you plan on testifying! And to save face and help your future not be haunted, I doubt you will testify on Chriss' behalf.
As for what the media said and printed about you, it is all true; you stated those things to the police and you swore it was a correct statement and you signed it. Your statements are public documents; we all have read them and the media only stated what you said and swore to in the statement."
please stop jumping to conclusions...no one has actually talked to me about any of this, except during the 14 hours that i was held for at mdpd...i know my statement doesn't reflect how long i was there...and also...check that signature you claim is on that "statement"...if there is a signature...it's not mine.
why won't you identify yourself???? (if you don't want the whole world to know who you are, you can send me a private message)
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On 2005-11-29 05:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"WRONG. try again as to the reason they closed. YOUR reason is so incorrect."
There is no right and wrong wwaspie only working and non-working. And the programs were'nt working along the guidelines of humanity. Ask Stephen Frederickson who was pulled out of Dog kennels in Mexico. They closed for abuse.PERIOD. "IN MY EXPERIENCE" you are in denial and desperate to believe that the program can do no wrong. I pity you, sorry to burst your fragile bubble of reality you obviously need to believe unquestionably that the program hasn't abused people much like many insane people often believe they are someone famous in their delusions of granduer. It fulfills a missing need within them. You need to believe in the program to validify your mental psyche. Any opinions or real life experiences of others contrary to the program are a threat to your little bubble and are therefore dismissed. I feel bad for you. It's like trying to tell a homeless man that he's not George Washington. I don't blame you though I blame the sick cult WWASP and the seminars designed to further their mission of making money.
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On 2005-11-29 00:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-28 17:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-28 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"They pulled the triggers on themselves after quarreling with their parents and being threatened with re-entry into the program."
Do you know this for a fact? I knew about Corey but the details of Chris's death are not widely known."
Yes Chris had been using drugs and huffing things. His parents found out were upset threatened to send him back but never got the chance as he ran into the bathroom and shot himself in the head. I believe the gun was a 9mm
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why won't you identify yourself???? (if you don't want the whole world to know who you are, you can send me a private message) "
Why would I tell someone who is an accomplice to murder who I am? I know a lot about you, which can only hurt you at the trial and in the future. If you know who I am, would you plan another hit to keep me quiet? With the anger and resentment you have inside of you, I think you are capable of anything evil.
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okay...this is my last post cause this is just getting ridiculous...minds have been made up without the whole story being told...not ALL of the evidence has been released into public record...that lovely miami herald article even says so...so unless you are an attorney actively working on the case, not all the details have been made available to you...i wonder, with everything i've heard and seen, if chriss will get a fair trial, in that the "jury of his peers" may already have written the verdict...thank you to some out there who have taken the time to not be judge and jury and who have truly listened...to those of you who truly believe the stories, i've really have nothing further to say...to the person who "unfortunately knows" me, i doubt it...for all i know they are someone that knows OF me and is just trying to get me all riled up with ridiculous accusations and hypotheses...so good night, and farewell... :wave:
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"okay...this is my last post cause this is just getting ridiculous... [snip] ...so good night, and farewell... :wave: "
Maybe you could give me an e-mail? I sent a private message to you also.
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What kind of a parent sends their kid to a WWASPS program when they are only 12 and then professes to be so outraged when they find out he was abused (put in a dog cage)? Pathetic! And these other parents, whose kids shot themselves? What the hell were they doing keeping a gun in the house with a so called "troubled teen" around? Stop making excuses for these stupid people who will do anything for "the program" even if it means abusing their own child.
:flame:
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What kind of a parent sends their kid to a WWASPS program when they are only 12 and then professes to be so outraged when they find out he was abused (put in a dog cage)?
Umm.. a stupid parent, WWASPS market.
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A child given so much throughout his time with this family has no excuse for actions taken in the manner in which he chose to solve any problems he might have encountered.
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Chris Landre did not commit suicide. He was in no danger of being returned to the program. His parents pulled him because they could not AFFORD the program.
Corey Murphy had several suicide attempts and one serious suicide attempt that landed him in Sterling Reg Med Center emergency room when he was just 13 years old. He was committed to psychiatric wards on "suicide lockdown" on atleast 2 occassions before the suicide attempt in Sterling, CO. Once in Columbus, GA at the age of 10.
Before he was sent to Samoa he was permanently expelled from school in Sterling and arrested several times for everything from truancy to posession of a gun. His mother sought help from both the psychiatric hospital and the Sterling School District and was told that there was nothing that could be done by either organisation.
Corey Murphy spent time in the care of MANY therapists, psychologists, teachers and mental health professionals from the time he was 8 years old. Medications did not help him, doctors did not help him and hospitals did not help him. How can we really blame the WWASP solely for not helping him???
The months before his suicide (and after his stint in Samoa and Spring Creek Lodge) Corey was involved in drugs and arrested several times. He stole a car, was caught in posession of cocaine more than once, was arrested for shoplifting, and had moved out of the family home several times. The police were also called to his mothers El Paso home several times because he was violent and physically assaulted his own sister.
Corey Murphy was not some poor helpless kid who did nothing to deserve being sent away and developed spontaneous suicidal feelings while in the care of the WWASP. He was a deeply troubled young man who was suicidal at a very young age and he could not keep himself out of trouble for more than a few weeks.
Also, Corey Murphy's father, who had no involvement in the program and has been quoted calling it a "cult" in the Rocky Mountain News committed suicide in the same manner as Corey in 2005: a gun to the head. Can we lay THAT on the WWASP? Mitch Humason also allegedly had a brother who committed suicide in Washington State in 2002. Perhaps Corey and his father were genetically predisposed to suicide?
Frankly, I think you are all a bit off base trying to pin a suicide on anyone... People commit suicide in psychiatric hospitals all the time. The medical community maintains that suicide is not the fault of the doctor, the family, or anyone who is caring for that person.
No one is trying to hold the psychiatric hospital that cared for Corey Murphy in Columbus, GA responsible for his subsequent suicide attempts or his death. The psych ward on suicide lock-down was very much the same procedure as those used in the WWASP. (ie: no jewelry, supervision at all times, asking permission to speak, being watched in the restrooom, etc.)
I think you should all do more research on the students you profess to be "victims" of WWASP. Some of the students (like the one who murdered his parents) were not only out of control, but also predatory. If the parents knew that the child was going to kill them, I'd say it would have reinforced their decision to send him away. These children victimized their own families NOT vice-versa.
Also, a slightly elevated suicide or death rate amung program students/graduates should not be too suprising when you consider that these are young people who are known to engage in high risk behavior such as drugs, un-protected sex and violent crimes and many of them have a long history of depression and suicidal behavior. Of COURSE they are more likely to die, they are the ones who were more likely to die to begin with!
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David Van Blarigan
Look, you've just given out a whole lot of what sounds like very personal information about this kid and his family. Way ta show love and respect for the dearly departed!
If it were just these few, very troubled kids you might have a point. But it's not. These programs take any damned kid who's parents are willing and financially able to send them. There is no diagnostic criteria, they don't even interview the kids first. But you know that already. You just think all teenagers are rabid animals to be tamed and broken; just some are more manipulative than others and you haven't caught them at it yet.
Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff.
Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse
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Also, a slightly elevated suicide or death rate amung program students/graduates should not be too suprising when you consider that these are young people who are known to engage in high risk behavior such as drugs, un-protected sex and violent crimes and many of them have a long history of depression and suicidal behavior. Of COURSE they are more likely to die, they are the ones who were more likely to die to begin with!"
Well, we're all still trying to get the answer to a very simple question: What QUALIFIES WWASP or any other "program" to treat such serious illnesses? What are the criteria? What testing is done? Who on staff has the medical degree to deal with such emergencies.
Yeah, there are some people you just can't help. But the fact the WWASP is willing to accept any kid whose parents produce a check is appalling.
Hospitals and other licensed facilities are required by law to document the testing leading to the diagnosis, treatment plan, and treatment administered. Oh, and never at any time, does another patient have dominion over a patient. Hell, all unlicensed staff (nurse's aides, dietary personnel, housekeeping, administrative staff) have clear boundaries that they must adhere to avoid unlicensed medical practice.
Why is WWASP immune?
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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Out of control, preatory, violent crimes.
Sounds like an admission that the facility is a middle-class, private-pay prison?
If what you're saying is true, might Corey or the other boy belong in jail? Rather than incarcerated with other kids, some of whom have been refered to as spoiled brats, who weren't violent, predatory, out of control?
Is that why some of these places are run like Oz? Because they're housing violent, predatory, juvenile criminals.
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Also, a slightly elevated suicide or death rate amung program students/graduates should not be too suprising when you consider that these are young people who are known to engage in high risk behavior such as drugs, un-protected sex and violent crimes and many of them have a long history of depression and suicidal behavior. Of COURSE they are more likely to die, they are the ones who were more likely to die to begin with!
I agree that these places attract teens with REAL problems, some including suicidal feelings and depression. That is why I think WWASPS is so dangerous, they funnel the kids away from a real treatment option that would be helpful. Instead they get torn down emotionally and treated horribly in some foregin prison camp, that might drive some to suicide all in itself. The final straw that broke the camel's back as it were. Of course nobody can say for sure that WWASPS is responsible for his suicide, but I would say it had to be a contributing factor. If you have spent any time there, you would konw what I mean. WWASPS prison camps do not inspire hope, they create despair and sadness and PTSD. So maybe he would have killed himself anyways, or maybe all those times he ended up in the hospital, or in trouble committing those petty crimes, he was asking for the help he desperately needed, whether he knew it or not. There is no reason to send kids off to WWASPS, any option is beter, ranging from choosing another program to doing nothing. Just don't choose WWASP it will make it worse.
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Frankly, I think you are all a bit off base trying to pin a suicide on anyone... People commit suicide in psychiatric hospitals all the time. The medical community maintains that suicide is not the fault of the doctor, the family, or anyone who is caring for that person.
Yeah but most people are in agreement that these people are trying to HELP the people in their care. That cannot be said of WWASPS, not even close. The two environments simply do not compare.
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The psych ward on suicide lock-down was very much the same procedure as those used in the WWASP.
You left out the part about how the psych hospital is run by medical staff with oversight, and paradise cove was run by unqualified locals with no oversight. Big difference.
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I think you should all do more research on the students you profess to be "victims" of WWASP. Some of the students (like the one who murdered his parents) were not only out of control, but also predatory. If the parents knew that the child was going to kill them, I'd say it would have reinforced their decision to send him away. These children victimized their own families NOT vice-versa.
Is that why WWASPS exists? So parents can lock up teens they consider violent and predatory without pressing charges and involving the legal system? I have to say, after being imprisoned at a WWASPS facility, I didn't meet anyone who fits this description. What do the parents expect when the kid becomes an adult? Really a dumb move on their part.
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On 2006-03-24 05:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
Yeah but most people are in agreement that these people are trying to HELP the people in their care. That cannot be said of WWASPS, not even close. The two environments simply do not compare."
I have to disagree with you here. They're crazy as hell, but I think they honestly do believe they're saving the world. That's what makes them so particularly dangerous and so convincing.Real criminals walk free every day to rape, rob, and murder again because the courts are so busy finding consensual criminals guilty of hurting no one but themselves.... To free cells for consensual criminals, real criminals are put on the street every day.
Peter McWilliams
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Not a chance, it is about money and sadism
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Then why the manic gleem in their eye? There are far easier, less fucked up ways to scam a lot of people out of a lot of money. Off the top of my head, they could deal in large quantities of illicit drugs or weapons. They could play the stock market w. all the same vengence and low scruples. They could dope race horses. They could sell used cars or set up boiler room operations.
No, the money is there, it's one factor, but not the driving force. What they choose to do is to torture kids and brainwash their parents. That's what they do because that's who they are. The money is secondary.Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877
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i knew corey murphy well in samoa. i was in his family. i apologize for arriving late to this discussion. he was a kind caring kid with a heart of gold, and i am saddened to hear he committed suicide. whether it was wwasp or not, i'm sure he could have spent the years he spent at paradaise cove doing something more productive instead, such as getting the help and therapy from a qualified practicioner that his parents probably thought he WAS getting. and that is what makes wwasp at least partially at fault. it's fraud, plain and simple, and in this case i believe it meets the standard of depraved indifference, meaning they blatantly ignored the consequences of their criminal actions and acted in a negligent fashion anyway.
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On 2006-03-26 17:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Not a chance, it is about money and sadism"
:tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:
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When and how did you realize that the WWASP detention center was destructive? What was a typical day like for you when you were employed there? Thanks for your repy?
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did a verdict ever come through on the crhis sutton case? or is that still open?
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the case is still open...might go to trial soon.
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Your mother's case is still open...
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"Your mother's case is still open... "
Whose mother??? Is there a another case besides Chris Sutton's case?
When are the trials for both cases?
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I think you should all do more research on the students you profess to be "victims" of WWASP. Some of the students (like the one who murdered his parents) were not only out of control, but also predatory. If the parents knew that the child was going to kill them, I'd say it would have reinforced their decision to send him away. These children victimized their own families NOT vice-versa.
Is that why WWASPS exists? So parents can lock up teens they consider violent and predatory without pressing charges and involving the legal system? I have to say, after being imprisoned at a WWASPS facility, I didn't meet anyone who fits this description. What do the parents expect when the kid becomes an adult? Really a dumb move on their part.
Whether or not the teen was just a little rebellious or a criminal they are entitled to be treated like human being in the least restrictive setting. This isn't about the kids behaviour before he came to a WWASP facility--it is about the standard of care, compliance with basic human rights, and whether treatment is appropriate for the resident.[/img][/list][/code]
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http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/g ... 21&invol=1 (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=tx&vol=app/12821&invol=1)
There you can read about the trial..
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I personally knew Chris Sutton and was someone who he stole from. Though I was not involved in a "credible" business at this point, his actions were wrong and "shady. He was an obviously disturbed individual who was known for being able to control other individuals with low self esteem, in need of feeling like they belonged. I heard about this a year ago, and though I was shocked to hear that someone I knew was involved in a situation such as this, I was not surprised it was Chris. Also, though I never knew Garrett personally, I did know of some of his issues with one of my friends including phisical altercations that did occur. Again, I was not surprised.
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I personally knew Chris Sutton and was someone who he stole from. Though I was not involved in a "credible" business at this point, his actions were wrong and "shady. He was an obviously disturbed individual who was known for being able to control other individuals with low self esteem, in need of feeling like they belonged. I heard about this a year ago, and though I was shocked to hear that someone I knew was involved in a situation such as this, I was not surprised it was Chris. Also, though I never knew Garrett personally, I did know of some of his issues with one of my friends including phisical altercations that did occur. Again, I was not surprised.