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Messages - FueLaw

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16
The Seed Discussion Forum / Dear Art,
« on: October 06, 2005, 09:59:00 AM »
Greg & Others :

Maulden was in the Seed, first Dade then Broward. I was in with him and used to ride back and forth with him. He lived about a mile away from me. He was court ordered, another Underwood/Judge Sepe success story. His sister was in also. She was a few years younger than him. I don't remember her name. [ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2005-10-06 07:00 ]

17
The Seed Discussion Forum / Dear John U
« on: September 29, 2005, 01:21:00 PM »
I also started smoking in the Seed. It took me around 20 tries over many years to quit.

Remember this rule: "Smoking on the hour or when the rap leader smokes". I am sure there was good reason for this rule. Maybe Underwood or some other enlightened staff member could tell us. I even remember discussing this rule during rules rap.

18
The Seed Discussion Forum / Dear John U
« on: September 28, 2005, 06:29:00 PM »
Obviously we were there together, at least the 9-10 months of the program I spent in Broward. At that time they had closed Dade and were going pretty strong in St. Pete & Broward. I did a refresher and start over during that time and remember seeing alot of Mr. Underwood. I realize he was also at the other facilities too.

Let me clarify the stuff I said about some "Parents". All I am saying is that some of the kids parents used the Seed as a crutch or escape for their own shortcomings as parents. They were frustrated and maybe lacked understanding of their children and used the Seed as a place to put them and to deal with them. In addition when a parent contacted the Seed or went to an intake interview they were told that the Seed would straighten their kid out in just two short weeks.  ::unhappy:: [ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2005-09-28 15:33 ]

19
The Seed Discussion Forum / Dear John U
« on: September 28, 2005, 05:31:00 PM »
I was in Broward(State Road 84) from Fall of '73-July '74. Prior to that Dade.

20
The Seed Discussion Forum / Dear John U
« on: September 28, 2005, 03:08:00 PM »
Please elaborate !, I am not sure about the time frame when you were in there but when I was in there their were parents who left their kids off at the Seed because they couldn't deal with them. Not every Seed parent was a good parent. In my family I had one good one and one bad one.

21
The Seed Discussion Forum / Dear John U
« on: September 28, 2005, 06:39:00 AM »
Excellent post Jupiter. Your right, Underwood is and was clueless. He certainly didn't get it then perhaps he will start to get it now.

Your post illustrates a fatal flaws in the Seed, or other similar programs approach, what about the kids who had problems other than occassional drug use? What about kids who were abused physically or sexually? What about kids who had bad parents? What about a kid with any other problem in the world? Underwood and his staff were truly incabable and unable to deal with this.

If you read Underwood's initial post , and others that followed, he demonstrates his own lack of understanding beyond any reasonable doubt. Underwood claims he got it from day 1 on the first row? Got what? Milk? The only thing he got was brainwashed, hoodwinked and used up by Barker.

I realize that maybe 10%-20% of the people in the Seed were hard core drug addicts/junkies like Underwood and Libby. That some of these people may have even benefited in some way from the Seed. But what about the other 80-90%?

You can take almost any type of treatment method and achieve some success in terms of getting people to quit using drugs. If you sent 100 physically addicted drug addicts to prison for 2 years some of them would quit using. Does this mean prisons should become the prefered method of treatment? Underwood never understood that one size does not fit all.  

Your post also touches on another topic, "Crappy Parents". The Seed enabled many lousy parents to simply dump their problems off at SR84 or some other facility. The parents were told what they wanted to hear, that it was their children that were the cause of all the problems and not them In addition the Seed would send them a nice wonderful well behaved kid in just 14 or so days. That was just to friggin good to pass up.

Underwood also doesn't understand that he was probably used worse than anyone else. For six years he gave his blood & guts to a cult with a pipe dream. Every cult requires true believers with some ability and presence. Underwood fit the mold to a "T". Without Underwood's commitment and drive the Seed would have a much smaller impact than it did. He had 10 times the ability of Libby or anyome else in there. He was the blood and guts of the place while I was there. At the end of six years he was like a championship racehorse, with no breeding ability, put out to pasture. He was no longer useful so therefore he became expendable.

I also agree with your assesm,ent of Barker. He was just an ego tripping bastard who one day will rot forever in hell.

22
The Seed Discussion Forum / Another note to John Underwood
« on: September 22, 2005, 06:12:00 AM »
Good one GB , at least you got a sense of humor. You also know how to use a dictionary. Your improving. Using your definitions would you say that mental abuse took place at the Seed ?


Note: post edited for content. Lets keep it civil please.

gregfl

23
The Seed Discussion Forum / Another note to John Underwood
« on: September 22, 2005, 12:14:00 AM »
First, pick a name you gutless bastard. It makes it easier to address people on a board like this. Second, I am glad you are entertained because that makes it more likely you will come back to this website and get some information and education which you are clearly in need of. Thrid, define torture ? Fourth, define mental abuse?


Next, read GregFl's post under Underwood's most recent thread and tell me if you agree or not with the allegations and comments.

Does any dispute that these events or substaintially similar events ever took place?

24
Underwood, you will be glad to know that your friend Judge Sepe was indicted in the operation "court broom" scandal in Miami-Dade county. He played sick for about a decade but a federal judge finally sent him away for a while. His federal prison number was 37427-004.

Your other friend Judge Marphonios was also caught up in the same scandal and was forced off the bench. I guess birds of a feather do flock together. Very coincidental that you mention crooked disgraced judges as your friends.

Yes you did strike me and physically abuse me. What about the event at the open meeting prior to X-mass , do you remember it? What the hell was that all about? Having said that I dont really care about it. It wasn't the first time I got the shit knocked out of me. I care about the mental abuse and torture of thousands of kids. How do answer for that?

How about the other lies? What about the 90% crap? How many staffers failed or got booted? How come the seed did not rise up and save the world? What happend Johnnyboy? Why did you quit? Why did you kiss Barkers ass for 6 years? How come nothing that guys like you & Barker predicted would happend ever came to pass?

The answer is because you were full of shit then and your still full of shit 30 years later. How pathetic can you be?

25
The Seed Discussion Forum / Another note to John Underwood
« on: September 21, 2005, 08:00:00 PM »
Taken in it's proper context the language and allegations are very mild. Torturing children is serious business. It is undisputed that John Underwood totured thousands of children. He is a disgrace to all decent people wherever they roam.

Like I said before he is a phoney and fraud, he has no balls all he could ever do was inject herion into his body and pick on little kids who could barely fight back.

26
The Seed Discussion Forum / Another note to John Underwood
« on: September 21, 2005, 06:49:00 AM »
I think that "THE TRUTH" really really hurts. I dont care about their annonymity but they should just pick a name to make the conversation easier on the board.

The truth is the Seed was a cult which used experimental methods that eventually failed. It was based on a bunch of lies and fallacies and over time the lies and fallacies were revealed. The proof is evident in the manner in which the Seed existed over their last 20 or so years. Even Underwood himself acknowledges getting run off when his loyalty was questioned.

For purposes of discussion go back to your intake interview and think about what was said to your parents in order to get them to enroll you in the program. Keep in mind that I am talking about May , 1973 when all this drug stuff, and the rehabilitation business was relatively new. Our parents were told that we were on a "highway to hell" or "the road to ruin". That even if we barely used drugs, we had the "druggie attitude" which they could correct.

Our parents were scared of drugs, socitey was scared and Barker & Co. played on these fears to the absolute hilt. Never underestimate the way fear could make a parent act or react. Put in context staff was telling our parents if you dont leave your kids with us he will wind up in prison or dead on the streets. In this context many scared parents may just enroll their kids in the program.

Our parents were told that the Seed had a 90% success rate and they would straighten us out. Keep in mind the person doing the intake interview had no training or skill in evaluating any kind of problems a kid might have. Some of them may have just completed their 10-10 phase of the program several months before being made a staff member. They also may have been just as pathetic as junkies turned senior staffers like Underwood and Libby.  Were any parents ever told that the Seed had no professionals on staff and that the program had no long term or reliable data to support their claims of success?

Did Underwood or any staffers ever tell a parent that their kid wasn't that bad and really didn't need the program? Were any kids released from the program a week or so after admittance because the kid really wouldn't benefit from the program?

I would bet the success rate of the staffers doing the intake interviews was less than 50%. I was there over a year and staffers would disappear and never be heard from or spoken about again just the same as many of the kids.

The same analysis would be true of the people sent to the program by the court system. Frauds were prepetrated on the judges and other local public officials. Once these fruads came to light and someone flashed a spotlight on Barker/Underwood/Libby they ran like cowards. This is why the Dade, Pinellas and Cleveland facilities closed. Barker & company didnt want the lies and fraud exposed. A half a loaf is better than none at all.

Remember "Honesty was the first and most important rule" and it was violated as soon as you walked in the door. The lies and deceit continued up until the time you left the program.
(more on that later)

Any names or insults that these anon's hurl at me have no effect on me. It is less than 1/10th of 1% (one tenth of one percent) of the harm I suffered as a 14 year old. If we could survive the mental torture I'll last through a few name calling sessions.

Finally about the physical abuse. It took place. Not to the extent of 'Straight" and othe programs that followed but it did occur. The mental beatings were infinitely worse.

Underwood,please just stick around over the next few weeks, I along with others, will demonstrate by any reasonable standard that you were one of the most dispicable dishonest gutless human beings to ever trod the face of the earth. There is not doubt in my mind that you are evil to the core and fundamentally dishonest and I'll prove it.

27
The Seed Discussion Forum / Another note to John Underwood
« on: September 20, 2005, 11:24:00 PM »
Keep on posting. The more you post the more you expose yourself as a phoney and fraud. You are truely clueless.

28
The Seed Discussion Forum / Some insight(s)
« on: September 14, 2005, 06:11:00 PM »
Let me see if I got this straight, the people who said they were abused are making it all up. And the reason they would make this stuff up is?

Forget the physical abuse. What about the mental torture?

The Seed was already receiving federal grant money in 1972. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Finally, are we saying that a good place to find yourself is in the middle of a cult?

29
The Seed Discussion Forum / The humiliating seed!
« on: September 12, 2005, 12:09:00 PM »
This was bumped to the top for obvious reasons. Look at the date of the original post. Unfortunately Big Frank is no longer with us. I got racked up a little by some old comers to.

Do you still believe physical abuse never took place ?

30
The Seed Discussion Forum / In Re : Physical Abuse v. Psychological Abuse
« on: September 11, 2005, 02:29:00 PM »
Ginger,

It seems to me that the kids parents had a role in that too. In other words a kid would come in and rat out his friends. (This was all done in the name of honesty which was the first and most important rule) Then the kids parent would go talk to the druggie kids parents and the some of the friends wound up on the front row. The prospective kids parent would be encouraged to come to open meetings and they would be taken by all the testimonials of the newcomers and then put their kids in.  This is one of the ways the Seed increased their enrollment.

I dont have any first hand info on the goon squads. I do remember hearing similar stories from the time period between 1972-1974, which was a big growth period for the Seed.

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