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Messages - Paul St. John

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31
Tacitus' Realm / Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« on: November 03, 2011, 01:22:36 PM »
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
Quote from: "Paul St. John"

But just to be clear, before we go any further-

Is it your position, that you are in fact a hypocrite, who lives an immoral , unjust life?- just so we can get that out of the way right off the bat

What's it to ya ? My personal life is of absolutely no consequence to my argument.  I'm hard on myself and I do the best I can and I'm not afraid of being called a hypocrite.  My words speak for themselves.


Because you are on a computer made by people with jobs, although, you are against jobs.  I am making the point here, that embrace capitalism in action, while denying it in your word.  That is in fact in hypocritical.  And it seems to me that the majority of people with your viewpoint are exactly the same way.

Anyhow, the whole thing started out with me trying to make a point to you.  I didn t at that point view it as an argument, but rather hoping you would see my point.

Paul

32
Tacitus' Realm / Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« on: October 30, 2011, 04:18:16 PM »
Quote from: "Horatio"
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
Quote from: "none-ya"
Ask all the 60 somethings that were teenagers during the summer of love ('67) That tried sharing,communal living,going back to the land and all. It's a utopian pipe dream. People are just naturally greedy. That's why the cult of money and sucess is such a natural draw.Even for the "do-gooders",the more you,have the more you can give away.But sometimes you just have to throw up the white flag during the "monopoly" game and redistribute the property and money or the game's
over.Think about what that would lead to in real life.........

or maybe not

This is true, and they weren t the only ones who tried.. many well-meaning groups of Americans have tried it.. A group of transcendentalists, whom I admire quite a bit for the most part tried it as well.. It didn t last very long though.

In the end, trade is the fairest, best , most righteous way to do business.

If some people want to live on farms, and make everything they use themselves, that is their choice.  But obviously, most do not or they would be doing it.. different groups of people specializing in different things, benefits everybody involved.

The cool thing about a capitalist society, is that anyone who wishes to operate in a manner, partially, or completely free of capitalism is pretty much unfettered. They can do as they choose.

In society's that are communistic or socialist, everybody has to play along with the same game.  There are no options.  And in order to maintain this type of society requires forceful governments that violate human rights according to American standards, and as well objective standards.


Paul St. John


Paul I grew up in a small town (actually it was a tri-town) we had a Regional H.S. made up of those three towns. There were 7 families that provided jobs for this county. Russos had a large chicken farm and processing plant, Holbertons had the produce, Hensons had the dairy and meats plus hogs, Cares had the timber and hay, Perraults had the potatoes, beans, tomatoes and peppers, the Lewis's owned the Drygood store and the Wrights owned the American Motors dealership. The orginal AT&T was coming through with the cross Atlantic phone lines, we still had textiles miles and sod growing was also beginning to take hold.
My name is John Wright (from facebook and these were my descendants).
I am talking about Washington County in Southern Rhode Island. The school is called Chariho. Native American name. Cha= Charlestown, ri= Richmond and ho= Hopkinton, Cha-ri-ho. We had a volunteer Ambulance and Firemen dept. Police were the State Police
We existed and subsisted because of each other, we enjoyed life and the Profits we made were enough. Capitalism cruelty had not yet come into our lives. But when it finally did it wiped out what I had known as a child in maybe two years.


But the thing is that capitalism only came into your lives, if you invited it in.  Again, you are not forced to play.. Most likely many of these families saw incentives in embracing capitalism, and that is the reason that they invited in.  Now, most change does come with some negative thngs as well.. Certainly traditions die.. but the fact of the matter is, that even if people did not like that, they still considered it an overall benefit to embrace capitalism, or they wouldn t have done it.  Also, the argument could be made, that yours and the other families had been practicing capitalism all along, but as things get bigger, there are always more opportunity for the good guys, but the bad guys as well..   Computers, I think are used for many great things.. but they are also used for bad things.. Shall we all be deprieved of PCs, because of the reality of viruses, identity theft, online fraud, internet bullying, and internet predators?

My point was these were all Americans that were happy with their idea of "PROFIT". They were not greedy to the point of injuring others just to make a buck.  

This is what I believe in- eexactly as you state above, and that is the principle behind capitalism, when it is parcticed properly.  the problem is taht many things get blamed on capitalism, for which, it is not the cause.

From 1974-1976 the Tyson Foods, Guidas dairy, Stop and Shop Foods, The EPA and many greedy politicians (who didn't even live in Washinton County) totally wiped off the face of the earth all 7 families accomplishments they had created over maybe 100 years.
The politicians and big business made it so we were dependent upon them. This is the point of suburbia with the food stores, Home depots, WallMarts and Malls. They pass ordnances in these sub-divisions so you can't even have a garden that will produce substance for a family.

That is seriously fucked up.. and I am truly unhappy to hear that.. that, in my view is pure evil, and causes unnecessary pain to people who do not deserve it, but again, this is not capitalism... and also under any other economic system, this is the norm.. Most of the time, when you find problems with capitalism, you find government intervention.


We (the average citizen) are not benefiting from the World Trade Ass. or even are own trade here in America. Living in America is like Vegas and/or Wall Street it is all a bet and the cards are stacked against you. Middle class America is once again at a very bad disadvantage, we are loosing are clout. Take away the middle class (make us marginal) and you have a third world country, haves and the have-nots.  

Whether or not that happens is up to us.


Gov't intentionally leaves us out of the conversation (remember 2008 when you found out about the historic collapse, did you feel like WTF, I did) Bankers/Banks walked away with cash, AIG, Investment Corps and Car manufacturers. They marketed and traded our homes like they place bets on the crap table. Our fucking homes (our private lives) they targeted a certain group of people and exploited them.

The government had NO right to do any of this.. but again, this goes against the principles of capitalism

They have taken ours jobs to other countries so they could make more money, they take our jobs here and give them away to others so they can make more money. Then they say we won't do the jobs or we won't pay the extra cost if they use Americans. This is called propaganda. Say it long enough and people will be conditioned to believe it.

Personally, I don't disagree with outsourcing.  They were never "our" jobs to begin with.

Have you looked a the price of sneakers and jeans of late, furniture ect....all these are made else where. $145.00 for a pair of Nike sneakers made in indo-china it cost NIKE a few dollars to make and ship back here.

Two other factors to take into account are inflation, which, is again caused by anti-capitalistic actions taken by the government, and the supply/demand dynamic.  People do not have to buy Nikes at that price.  they could shop at Payless and teh price of Nikes would drop.  They choose not to.. this is in the hands of the "consumer"

This is not capitalism this is called wholesale pillaging. There are so many more examples.

There was a time when America made 90% of everything we consumed and we were doing just fine until Wall St. got greedy. !901, 1929, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's, 2010's.
What we need is another Theodore Roosevelt.

Well, we definitly disagree on theTeddy Roosevelt-reference.. he sewed a lot of the seeds that led to today's problems..


I, too, would like to see America produce more.  But it is worth mentioning, that the individual standard of living is far higher then in all these countries where most of the goods we purchased are prouced... Kinda interesting, ain't it?

33
Tacitus' Realm / Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« on: October 30, 2011, 03:56:54 PM »
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"

What people need to know is how to grow their own food and nurture themselves and their families from the land and the sea in a sustainable way.


It is worth mentioning that there is nothing in the world stopping you from doing that right now, but instead yo9u choose to be on a computer made by people who had jobs.

Paul

This is an attack on me personally and has no bearing on my argument.  My position is not that I live a moral or just life or that I'm not a hypocrite.  It wouldn't matter if I were the president of IBM or the CEO of Google.  Even the devil may speak the truth.  ::evil::


heh.. No.. Not an attack on you personally.. And I didn t mean to be rude cutting in, in my honest opinion, the idea such as yours are lacking a true perspective, and yet they are very prevalent, and in again, in my opinon, they are not only one of the biggest problems with our country, but whether or not these idea flourish, I think has a lot to do with teh future of our country, and resulatantly, the planet as a whole.  

But just to be clear, before we go any further-

Is it your position, that you are in fact a hypocrite, who lives an immoral , unjust life?- just so we can get that out of the way right off the bat.


Quote
Even the devil may speak the truth.  

Perhaps, if there were a devil, that would be the case, but either way, we have yet to establish that you are speaking the truth.  My stance is that what you are speaking is utter nonsence


Paul

34
Tacitus' Realm / Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« on: October 28, 2011, 12:46:59 PM »
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"

What people need to know is how to grow their own food and nurture themselves and their families from the land and the sea in a sustainable way.


It is worth mentioning that there is nothing in the world stopping you from doing that right now, but instead yo9u choose to be on a computer made by people who had jobs.

Paul

35
Tacitus' Realm / Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« on: October 28, 2011, 12:44:11 PM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
Ask all the 60 somethings that were teenagers during the summer of love ('67) That tried sharing,communal living,going back to the land and all. It's a utopian pipe dream. People are just naturally greedy. That's why the cult of money and sucess is such a natural draw.Even for the "do-gooders",the more you,have the more you can give away.But sometimes you just have to throw up the white flag during the "monopoly" game and redistribute the property and money or the game's
over.Think about what that would lead to in real life.........

or maybe not

This is true, and they weren t the only ones who tried.. many well-meaning groups of Americans have tried it.. A group of transcendentalists, whom I admire quite a bit for the most part tried it as well.. It didn t last very long though.

In the end, trade is the fairest, best , most righteous way to do business.

If some people want to live on farms, and make everything they use themselves, that is their choice.  But obviously, most do not or they would be doing it.. different groups of people specializing in different things, benefits everybody involved.

The cool thing about a capitalist society, is that anyone who wishes to operate in a manner, partially, or completely free of capitalism is pretty much unfettered. They can do as they choose.

In society's that are communistic or socialist, everybody has to play along with the same game.  There are no options.  And in order to maintain this type of society requires forceful governments that violate human rights according to American standards, and as well objective standards.


Paul St. John

36
Elan School / Re: Bill Diamond
« on: October 25, 2011, 12:34:05 PM »
Just my 2 cents...

I ll bet he knew a lot.. maybe not all the specifics, but he knew what was going on.  There were probably quite a few other people who did, and still do, as well.


I have given this thought, and the conclusion that I have drawn, is that Elan was politically connected, to the extent of being nearly untouchable.  

When you consider all the crazy things that went on there- When you consider all the crazy things that went on outside of there, by Elan higher members under the directions of staff- When you consider all that came out in the Skakel case- When you consider the complaints by neighbors about hearing children screaming and and crying, as well as the nearby residents putting together an organization, to have them shut down.

They ( in my opinion) have been held in existence through political connections.  It is the only way that they could continue to exist for so long, and I personally, believe that there is still such a "network" for lack of a better term in place.
I , also , believe that until it is dissolved, it will be very hard for the truth to come out, or to even ensure that they stay closed, or that there is any actual justice.

Paul St. John

37
Open Free for All / Re: Rape me..Rape me, my ... uh, family?
« on: October 20, 2011, 12:41:26 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
So Daytop is some poor bastard with HIV and Cancer?


Nah.. the Daytop dude just has cancer.. The Elan guy has both...

Probably not the best comparison, but i pretty much come with this shit, as my fingers type it.

To really explain it, as I see it, let me try to come up with something better ....hmmmm


Put quite simply Daytop, as I experienced it, had some structure.  Elan, I believe, was created to have the same structure, by a person who was actually more evil, then the Daytop structure itself, and it eroded, into something worse.

Daytop was more, for better or worse, a part of society.  Elan was tucked away in the woods.  Even, if daytop counselors wanted to do what the Elan counselors did, I don t think that they could have gotten away with it.





Paul St. John

38
Open Free for All / Re: Rape me..Rape me, my ... uh, family?
« on: October 19, 2011, 01:28:55 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
The way she said it though, was almost as though, she meant it literal..
Just to clarify, are you saying that the scene described in the OP occurred at Daytop (and not Elan)? Or, am I missing or misunderstanding something?


Also, I don t mean to imply that she was actually raped there.. I am only reporting how it all seemed to me.  People can make what they want of it.. What I took from it was that the feeling or experience of it was that similar to her.

I am fairly certain, that no one raped her in Daytop.  There was a lot of fucked shit, but it just wasn t that type of place. Things like that didn t happen there.  Even when residents had sex amongst themselves, it was usually found out about and punished.  In most cases, it would have been considered statutory rape, but no one really sweat that shit.. It wasn t mentioned- only that house rules had been broken.  Personally, I didn t think that the statutory was a big deal myself.  These people were all close in age. Honestly, growing up, I don t remember anyone making a big deal of shit like that, anywhere. Kids fucked all the time.   Anyhow, having sex, or anything short of that for the purpose of sexual pleasure was called " Playing games"  a term to which this day, actually angers me and saddens me all the same time.

Paul

39
Open Free for All / Re: Rape me..Rape me, my ... uh, family?
« on: October 19, 2011, 12:37:08 PM »
Yes.  At the time that I wrote the post, there was no daytop *section*, and as Daytop and Elan were identical in their original foundational structure, I did all my posting in the Elan section.  This is how I came to know as much as I do about Elan , and meet so many people who attended Elan... I never had any intention of becoming so interested in Elan, in and of itself, but did all the same.  My thoughts on Elan,( and last time I said this I offended someone whose opinion I do respect) is that Elan was worse then Daytop.  Elan was an attempt at creating a Daytop by someone who hadn t the integrity to even pull that off.

Picture society is a man, and Daytop is a man with a disease.  Elan is a disease with a disease.

( and I have also always suspected that there is something else as well, but I can t be sure of any of that)


Paul St. John

40
Open Free for All / Re: Rape me..Rape me, my ... uh, family?
« on: October 18, 2011, 01:03:25 PM »
Well, now, ya sure are a troublemaker..lol

and are surely honest about it..

ain't nothing wrong with that.. just hope most people know to separate the trouble-making, from the serious shit..

Whether or not, Danny has committed the acts that Wayne are accusing him of, TC's emotionally rape you.  The way she said it though, was almost as though, she meant it literal.. that they were that similar to her.. all I can do is report what I observed, as she clearly knows about and understand something that I can only guess about, having never been raped.


I remember, that for me, it was such an unexpected thing.  I never knew she felt that way.  She was living a double life in order to survive the program.


Fucking place.. Fucking place... Fucking place... How they twisted the truth.. and how I so loved the truth... It was like silently watching the love of my life tortured to death, and there was nothing I can do about it.

The truth is, I always said to myself while I was in there, that they would pay some day.. that I would destroy them..
(suppose that was my double life)   I always tried to act peaceful in there, and project the persona of a peaceful guy, which really at my core is what I was, which is why I did not like them....

But inside me, I was mad.. Flaming fucking mad. I knew that they were destroying me, and I had no intention of letting them get away with it.


.. and no Danny was not there. : )

Paul St. John

41
Elan School / Re: Some Clarification Please?
« on: October 16, 2011, 02:17:33 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
So none-ya is Danny?

Err.. Dunno if that would be the case. Danny has never struck me as being clever enough to pull off that sort of duplicity. Still, I suppose None-ya could request an IP merge from Psy. If none-ya is danny it'll show up pretty quickly.


I actually have to agree with that.  Danny is very impulsive and needs to win every argument.  I don t think he could've kept a second persona around this long without making use of it.

Also, None-ya comes across to me as a very real and distinct person.

Paul St. John

42
Elan School / Re: Some Clarification Please?
« on: October 14, 2011, 02:44:08 PM »
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Paul, he gave me permission to print the book and admitted to what he did to Wayne Weaver. What kind of fucking idiot would do that? He's not even that stupid Tell him to sue me if it isn't true. As far as the van story Jerry was there. He says Danny wasn't the driver, that he stood there smiling

The van story isn't in the book BTW. When Jerry said that to me I took it out because I wasn't 100% sure if he drove or not. If I was out to get him I would have left it in. I was very careful about only printing the truth

And, the burden of proof is in a court of law.

The burden of proof is fucking everywhere.. It is part of the law system, for good reason.. It is necessary to bring about justice.

Danny didn't sue me because he thought an investigation might shake a few witnesses loose

That might be the case, or it may be because you have no assets, he would recieve nothing monetarily, would have to spend to do it, and if the whole story is really confined to just a few message boards and a radioshow called "bi-polar nation" it doesn t seem worth it.. I don't know.. don t know..

He admitted to raping Yvette Portella. If he didn't do anyone else, why doesn't he call a lawyer? He's afraid of the same thing

That's the problem with so much of the bullshit taht sometimes goes on in this Elan circle, and in message boards and forums in general.. What "doe"s admitted mean?  When did he do it?  Like I said- I haven t followed all this shit...


I mean, Now, you are saying that Danny admitted to raping her... and yet, you can t even get your fucking story straight... First you say fucking raped her... Then you are making an argument that it was statutory rape, AND THEN.. he never even fucking touched her.. he only asked other people if they would rape her, if they had the chance.. Fucked up?  YES!  But a big   fucking difference between that and actual rape... and at other times, he used his power over her to force her into a relationship...  What s the real fucking story.... cause you seem to use whatever is to your advantage at the time..


Anyway, I'm going to testify to what he did. He won't because his lawyer will tell him not to or he'll end up in jail for perjury


So fucking do it!   Why argue with me then?  


Paul

43
Elan School / Re: Some Clarification Please?
« on: October 14, 2011, 02:01:35 PM »
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
A few points.

3. I don't have to prove what's in my book is true, Danny and Elan have to prove it's not. They've been working hard on that and can't. Believe it or don't, at this point I don't give a fuck.

I'm sorry, man.. but this where our views on things differ.  In a world, where that were the case, things would be very backwards... and well.. fucked up.

The burden of proof is always on the accuser.  When law/science/reasoning or anything is practiced properly, innocence never needs to be proven.  Guilt has to be established rather... and this is not done through a person writing a book.  The person can be anyone and have any motive, or even be mistaken.. Now, perhaps, you consider yourself a straight up guy...   but if we applied your logic universally, can you imagine what type of world we would live in...

Anybody could write anything about anyone, and then that person would have to take time out of their lives to disprove it.  If you did not like someone, you could just have a bunch of people write stories about them, and they would have to spend so much time disproving things, they would lose all else.

and that's just scratching the surface.. If you apply the principle you are assuming, elsewhere, which, if it is right, there would be no reason not too...

You would have to disprove the claims of every insane person, before you could put them away.... AmityVille Horror guy heard voices, and I can t disprove it.. Until, we can disprove it, we must assume it happenned.


has anyone wrote a book, that thoroughly refutes every detail Mein Kampf, because afterall, we must be fair here, and until that is done, we must assume that everything in the book is true...

Do you see what I am getting at?  If not, I don t know what to tell you... Neither Danny nor Elan can called u[pon to claim a negative.  I simply don t know for sure, that your claims are correct.  You are the only person who has said anything about Danny committing sex crimes, especailly upon other males... I cannot assume it is true, just because someone has said it.

Even this whole fucking van story.. why is there no one who can say-   " I WAS THERE!  I REMEMBER IT CLEARLY!  AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENNED!"



Paul St. John


Paul St. John

44
Elan School / Re: Some Clarification Please?
« on: October 11, 2011, 02:13:40 PM »
Wow.. this thread is great.. Thanks for the clarification.... LOL!



Anyhow thus far, this is what I am getting from it all..



Wayne is accusing danny of sodomizing him, forcing another dude to blow him, and raping ( statutory) another girl.



This is a stupid place to discuss this, but I really can t think of any better.  

I would be curious if Wayne would be willing to scan those progress reports that he mentions on his radio appearance, and post them up... I am sorry.. Overall, I think he probably went there, but it is odd that nobody know shim, and anyone who comes up saying that they know him now could be anybody, or in most cases, Mark Babitz..


Danny, why were you forced to leave Elan?





Paul

PS Does anybody else realize what a big deal this is?  Not only is man being accused of numerous sex crimes, but if he is innocent, this brings Wayne's whole book into question, which, outside of Elan closing is probably one of the biggest accomplishments for the Elan community.

PSS  This thread is written primarily for the few people who actually have brains and care to use them.. There are those posts that ooze and perplex, and then there are those that stand like solid bricks... Amongst the ooze, I see a few bricks, and from that can guess taht there some decent minds who are actually interested...

PSS None-Ya is not Danny.  danny is Danny.. None-Ya is None-Ya.. Now if what Wayne said on his radio appearance is true, that 3 different people pm ed him that No0ne-Ya is Danny, it was probably all the same person using different names, or dishonest people who just don t care what is true.

PSSS Wayne, if you are on the up and up, you should probably watch who you associate with.  To some of these people, you may just be a tool.

45
Elan School / Some Clarification Please?
« on: October 06, 2011, 01:00:37 PM »
Now, I know.. I know.. some very sensible people are probably thinking me dumb for feeding into this shit, but I would like to understand what is going on.. AND I really don t feel like sifting through over a hundred pieces of bullshit to figure it out..



Wayne, if you care to respond-

What are you actually accusing Danny of?  ( I know it has something to do with sex... and I think taht there are a few different things...


Please , Wayne don t go into a whole big spiel....



I am accusing danny of:


1.

2.

3.




After you have managed to list them, I am curious, if you have any proof, other then your own word...  Again simple..


My proof for 1.  is a.  , b.   c.  etc.


Real proof please.. Not a bunch of bullshit....


Now, if you were sexually abused or know about such things occurring, I understand that it is a ver sensitive issue, and very painful to deal with, so I don t mean to be treating you like the criminal, but the burden of proof is always on the accuser, and at least - with me, if you want to be taken seriously, you are going to have to prove your case.


At this point in time, I am leaning towards thinking that it did not happen. However, I am not certain of this.  I have lived long enough to know, that when it comes to sexual abuse, it is very the people very least expect, so why not Danny then?  I mean- church-goers, neighborhood benefactors.. school teachers.. you name it.. and none of their freinds and loved ones can ever believe it.  That is trhe only reason, I am considerring it as possible, and because if that did happen to you, I feel for ya.



I have to say, to me this is a pretty big deal.. One one hand, if Danny did it, he is a sick fuck.. and you are surely a victim... On the other hand, if he did not, you are ripping a man's reputation to shreds, and you are a sick fuck, or maybe even just mistaken.... Your books seemed so credible when I read it, and yet for some reason, I am leaning towards believing Danny.  

Paul St. John

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