Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Whooter on November 30, 2010, 11:23:35 AM
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Editor's Note: Ashley graduated from ASR February 17, 2006. She worked full time at Costco for the first year following graduation while exploring college options and considering what she wanted to do. Subsequently she entered the University of Vermont, where she is currently finishing her second year. Ashley is in the Business School, majoring in accounting, and plans to obtain her CPA. While working toward that, she is staying very busy. She still works part-time at Costco and holds another part-time position at The UPS Store. In addition, she has a weekly house-cleaning job that brings in some extra cash.
Our thanks to Ashley for agreeing to add an interview with us to her super-busy schedule, and to Lisa Hunt, Admissions Counselor, who conducted the interview.
What were some of the thoughts you had about being sent to ASR?
Well, when my mom first told me that she wanted me to leave St. Albans (my hometown) and go to a school in Massachusetts, of course, I thought she was crazy! I did not want to leave my friends, school, everything that I was doing. After some thought, I figured I would try something new. I had checked the internet about this "Swift River" school. The brother of one of my friends had been sent to a school like Swift River and she said you could do what you wanted, schedule your own appointments, etc. So after all that, I agreed. I was excited to try something new—but little did I know!
What did you think it was going to be like?
Since my friend had said that you could pretty much do whatever you want, that's what I thought I could do. I thought that it would be a normal high school but with a little therapy.
What were some of things that you did to prepare to come?
I'm not sure if I did anything to prepare. By this time, I had left my high school and was waiting for the day to come to go to this "school."
How did your perceptions change once you got here?
My perceptions of the school changed probably within the first half-hour of being there. Someone had greeted us at the car and already told me I could not have any of my belongings except for the clothes I was wearing. They said the nail polish and makeup could go right back home. After that I was brought into a building and told to change into some wilderness-style clothes, and then I was put into a back of a gator and went for a ride into the woods. I would say I had an extremely negative attitude and was not open to listening to anyone at this point.
Can you tell a story of a situation that resulted in positive growth for you? Even if you didn't see it at the time?
My situation occurred while I was 13 months into my program and about to leave for Costa Rica and graduate three months later. I went on my last home visit first, and relapsed. I woke up in the hospital and started to freak out because I knew I had messed up my life now. Why would my mom think that I was going to change or had changed if I came home near the end of my program and got alcohol poisoning? It was an uncomfortable situation for my family and for me. I was disappointed in myself and I knew it was going to be a lot of work to get back on track. My mom and I had a huge dispute about returning to ASR. She said I was not going back and she never wanted to see me again, and I was begging her to please let me go back to ASR. I knew being around her wasn't going to get any better and ASR would help me work through my mistakes. Finally she brought me back. Since I had relapsed, I was not allowed to go to Costa Rica with my peer group, which really upset me; but it was probably a good thing it happened. Even though I relapsed and paid the consequences, it was a positive growth event for me in that it made me realize what is important in life and how my decisions affect everyone around me.
What was your favorite academic class? Why?
I would say that my favorite classes at ASR were the two college classes that I took. A teacher from a local community college came to ASR and taught about 10 of us. It was a great experience because even though we were in such a small high school, I was still able to take some high level classes.
Was there anything that you dreaded? Why?
I would say that I dreaded group sessions. I mean ,who likes to be confronted in front of 25 people about your issues? Not me! But that's how it works and that's what we had to work through. Eventually I realized that not everyone was out to get me but to actually help me.
What traces of ASR are in your daily life now?
I would say that my life is consumed with traces of ASR. Every choice I make is surrounded by pieces of ASR. I don't even know how to explain it. I have learned to slow down my thoughts and realize whether it is going to be a good or bad decision. I don't jump right into things anymore; I think about what consequences could come out of it. My life is definitely more thought through... I guess that's the best I can explain it!
What was the transition out of ASR like?
Well, being on that stage on February 17, 2006, was unbelievable. I was looking at everyone, reminiscing about when I had first come to this school and could never have imagined myself on that stage. It was a great feeling to know everything that I had accomplished. Walking out to my mom's car felt great also. I was excited to prove to my mom that I had changed and was a "new and improved" Ashley. I don't think that transitioning was very hard at all. All the friends who had brought me down had left St. Albans. My hometown high school classmates were finishing up their senior year and applying to colleges. I was excited to start life and live it to the fullest.
How do you apply the things that you learned?
Like I mentioned earlier, I use all the information I learned at ASR in my thoughts and actions. I am more cautious about what I do and how it will affect people.
What do you miss about the ASR Environment?
I'm not sure if I miss anything about ASR (having eyes on you all the time, attendance everywhere you go, structured schedule) except for the people I met. Friends, staff and teachers were definitely that best part of the school. You form bonds with people that you didn't know were possible. It's a good feeling to know that everyone cares about you and wants to help and support you. Friendships are unexplainable. I met kids from age 14-19 who all came from basically the same situations and were put together and trying to figure out what went wrong. It was definitely an experience!!!!!!!!
What are you happy to have left behind?
I am happy to leave behind anger, screaming, pain, dishonestly, dishonor.... anything that caused pain to my family and friends. I look back and am embarrassed at how I acted and treated people. I realize that my actions affected other people and do not enjoy knowing that I hurt many people in the past, but most of all I hurt myself.
Can you think of one or more things about yourself that have changed that you may attribute to ASR?
Yeah, my whole attitude towards life. Now I look forward to every day knowing that I will make the right choices.
The general mission of ASR is to get students 'back on track' with 'new beginnings.' Does your experience relate to this mission? Do you think that you were off track? Are you on track now?
This is a great mission statement and it completely reflects ASR! Basically I was stripped down to the necessities of life and told that I didn't need all that extra in my life. Life is about simplicity and being happy with yourself. I was certainly off track and was brought back on track with all the help from the Academy. I am grateful for all that help.
What else would you like the school to know, or prospective students to know?
I would like to say that IT IS A HARD AND SCARY ROAD but in the end, you will be a better person and enjoy life to the fullest if you actually WANT to change and make the difference in your life. It's all about you... you make the difference!!
Link (http://http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html)
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Hmmmmm, I would imagine that there are other Alum Interviews. Why not post them all instead of cherry picking?
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Hmmmmm, I would imagine that there are other Alum Interviews. Why not post them all instead of cherry picking?
Most businesses go through them all and pick the best one or two and present them. The negative ones would never be posted we all know that plus the good ones help with their marketing. Any negative interviews would not help too much.
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Hmmmmm, I would imagine that there are other Alum Interviews. Why not post them all instead of cherry picking?
Most businesses go through them all and pick the best one or two and present them. The negative ones would never be posted we all know that plus the good ones help with their marketing. Any negative interviews would not help too much.
Which proves my theory of why you're here.....to do marketing, not to tell the truth about what really goes on. This isn't an advertisement for the TTI.....it's a message board for those who've been abused by the TTI.
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Hmmmmm, I would imagine that there are other Alum Interviews. Why not post them all instead of cherry picking?
Most businesses go through them all and pick the best one or two and present them. The negative ones would never be posted we all know that plus the good ones help with their marketing. Any negative interviews would not help too much.
Which proves my theory of why you're here.....to do marketing, not to tell the truth about what really goes on. This isn't an advertisement for the TTI.....it's a message board for those who've been abused by the TTI.
I am not the one doing the marketing, ASR is, lol. That is a very strange post Anne.
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Too bad for Ashley. A few years is really not enough time to fully realize what just happened to you. Chances are, a couple of years down the line, when more of the koolaid has evaporated, she might not think of her time at ASR in quite such glowing terms. And yet, here is this "legacy" she has left...
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I am not the one doing the marketing, ASR is.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Uh huh, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
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Ask her in a few years.
It took me years to be able to disavow my CEDU brainwashing. I could not face up to it, but I always felt sick inside. I knew there was a disconnect from my outward acceptance of it to the reality. I have spoken to so many people from CEDU and other programs who felt the same way. It is hard to go through the emotional trauma of a program only to reject it later. You want so badly to believe there was some good born out of this intensive, intrusive experience. When reality hits, it hits cold and hard.
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Exactly. How many times have many of us said that for a long time after getting out we actually believed what they had drilled into our heads - to our detriment. Sometimes it really does take quite a while for the brainwashing to wear off.
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Exactly. How many times have many of us said that for a long time after getting out we actually believed what they had drilled into our heads - to our detriment. Sometimes it really does take quite a while for the brainwashing to wear off.
At least she will have a college degree, good work ethic strong family ties, maybe married with kids when the koolaid wears off! lol
My daughter still feels the same way after all these years 7 I think. So the koolaid is not such a bad thing?
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You have said previously that your make-believe kid was at ASR in 2001. That was 9 years ago. You have also said your ficticious kid was at ASR for 14 months and another time 16 months. Not very convincing at all.
FWIW, this "interview" looks phony, too.
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You have said previously that your make-believe kid was at ASR in 2001. That was 9 years ago. You have also said your ficticious kid was at ASR for 14 months and another time 16 months. Not very convincing at all.
Yes, she was there in 2001 because I remember she was there for 9/11. So she got out in 2002 so that is 8 years ago, wow time does fly by.
FWIW, this "interview" looks phony, too.
I provided a link.
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Yeah, and you also said she was there when Dave Marcus was there. That wasn't until after 2002. Your entire made-up story is shot through with holes, man.
Too many made up stories about too many made up kids to keep 'em straight I guess.
I fabricated a son
Yes, you sure did. And a daughter, too. And a whole "story" to go along with it. And...Well, nevermind. You made pretty much everything up out of thin air. People are tired of your threadbare stories and lies.
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Yeah, and you also said she was there when Dave Marcus was there. That wasn't until after 2002. Your entire made-up story is shot through with holes, man.
Too many made up stories about too many made up kids to keep 'em straight I guess.
I fabricated a son
Yes, you sure did. And a daughter, too. And a whole "story" to go along with it. And...Well, nevermind. You made pretty much everything up out of thin air. People are tired of your threadbare stories and lies.
Sorry you are so upset with this thread troll control. Bring on the personal attacks, I can take it! When you have nothing else attack the messenger. lol
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The point is the "the message" is phony and so is "the messenger." You have your stories all screwed up. You made up a son, made up a daughter, made up program experiences, made up the dates, made up the "Dave Marcus" timeline and can't keep all your lies straight anymore. It's not "attacking the messenger." It's "pointing out a liar with an agenda."
The bottom line is your entire "personal program story" is fabricated. It doesn't make me upset, nor do I suspect it angers anyone else. It only makes you mad that you have been caught lying about everything and have been outed. You were dragged out of the shadows and when your name was put on all of your posts, you were exposed as a complete liar and charlatan. That's all I'm saying. If you don't like it when people point out your fabrications, you ought not to fabricate everything.
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From the interview:
What was your favorite academic class? Why?
I would say that my favorite classes at ASR were the two college classes that I took. A teacher from a local community college came to ASR and taught about 10 of us. It was a great experience because even though we were in such a small high school, I was still able to take some high level classes.
I think this is great, I wasnt aware they had a community college close by that could provide college level classes. This is one of the advantages of homeschooling also. If your child excels in a specific area they can take college courses in high-school. Being in your typical public school this is difficult to do.
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Desperate change of subject back to the fake "interview."
The point is the "the message" is phony and so is "the messenger." You have your stories all screwed up. You made up a son, made up a daughter, made up program experiences, made up the dates, made up the "Dave Marcus" timeline and can't keep all your lies straight anymore. It's not "attacking the messenger." It's "pointing out a liar with an agenda."
The bottom line is your entire "personal program story" is fabricated. It doesn't make me upset, nor do I suspect it angers anyone else. It only makes you mad that you have been caught lying about everything and have been outed. You were dragged out of the shadows and when your name was put on all of your posts, you were exposed as a complete liar and charlatan. That's all I'm saying. If you don't like it when people point out your fabrications, you ought not to fabricate everything.
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Exactly. How many times have many of us said that for a long time after getting out we actually believed what they had drilled into our heads - to our detriment. Sometimes it really does take quite a while for the brainwashing to wear off.
At least she will have a college degree, good work ethic strong family ties, maybe married with kids when the koolaid wears off! lol
I seriously doubt that. Programs break the trust that kids have in their parents and very often never recover it.
My daughter still feels the same way after all these years 7 I think. So the koolaid is not such a bad thing?
I'd love to actually hear from your daughter herself instead of you speaking for her. I think the story might greatly differ from what you want people to believe. Of course it would probably end up with you creating yet another screen-name impersonating her.
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I seriously doubt that. Programs break the trust that kids have in their parents and very often never recover it.
I can see that happening in some instances, but my experience and the kids I saw graduate with my daughter grew closer to their families and greatly increased their ability to communicate and learned to listen to the other person. I saw this occur on both sides. I think it is one of the programs strengths.
I'd love to actually hear from your daughter herself instead of you speaking for her. I think the story might greatly differ from what you want people to believe. Of course it would probably end up with you creating yet another screen-name impersonating her.
I really dont think she would be interested too much.
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I seriously doubt that. Programs break the trust that kids have in their parents and very often never recover it.
I can see that happening in some instances, but my experience and the kids I saw graduate with my daughter grew closer to their families and greatly increased their ability to communicate and learned to listen to the other person. I saw this occur on both sides. I think it is one of the programs strengths.
Didn't you say that there was a long period of time when she wouldn't speak to you?
I'd love to actually hear from your daughter herself instead of you speaking for her. I think the story might greatly differ from what you want people to believe. Of course it would probably end up with you creating yet another screen-name impersonating her.
I really dont think she would be interested too much.
If it did her so much good, you'd think she'd stop by occasionally to endorse the place. Or to defend these horrible "attacks" on her father.
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From the interview:
What was your favorite academic class? Why?
I would say that my favorite classes at ASR were the two college classes that I took. A teacher from a local community college came to ASR and taught about 10 of us. It was a great experience because even though we were in such a small high school, I was still able to take some high level classes.
I think this is great, I wasnt aware they had a community college close by that could provide college level classes. This is one of the advantages of homeschooling also. If your child excels in a specific area they can take college courses in high-school. Being in your typical public school this is difficult to do.
Really? When I was in public school, not a few kids in the upper classes took courses *AT* a local university. This was a regular, 4-year, fully accredited and academically respected institution of higher learning, not some community college.
If you know anything at all about community colleges, you know that a lot of their instructors are not full-time. They teach on the side of another career to bring in some extra bucks, or they are between jobs. It probably wasn't too difficult to find an instructor to come to the Academy at Swift River to teach a course; ASR probably just put ads up on bulletin boards at whatever community colleges were in their local area. Judging from a map, I'd even guess it was Greenfield. It probably cost ASR all of $1000 for the whole term.
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From the interview:
What was your favorite academic class? Why?
I would say that my favorite classes at ASR were the two college classes that I took. A teacher from a local community college came to ASR and taught about 10 of us. It was a great experience because even though we were in such a small high school, I was still able to take some high level classes.
I think this is great, I wasnt aware they had a community college close by that could provide college level classes. This is one of the advantages of homeschooling also. If your child excels in a specific area they can take college courses in high-school. Being in your typical public school this is difficult to do.
Really? When I was in public school, not a few kids in the upper classes took courses *AT* a local university. This was a regular, 4-year, fully accredited and academically respected institution of higher learning, not some community college.
If you know anything at all about community colleges, you know that a lot of their instructors are not full-time. They teach on the side of another career to bring in some extra bucks, or they are between jobs. It probably wasn't too difficult to find an instructor to come to the Academy at Swift River to teach a course; ASR probably just put ads up on bulletin boards at whatever community colleges were in their local area. Judging from a map, I'd even guess it was Greenfield. It probably cost ASR all of $1000 for the whole term.
Yeah, good point. We had "AP" advanced courses in our high school for kids wanting more of a challenge and a college flavor, but they were taught by full time teachers in the high-school. They may offer this option more now a days inside high schools where college level teachers go to the local high school. I am just not aware of this.
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Additional information relevant to my above post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=32018&p=387798#p387794):
Based on United States Department of Education data for 2003 with regard to adjunct instructors at community colleges, "the salary per course at public two-year colleges ranged from a low of $1,397 at the 25th percentile to a high of $3,000 at the 90th percentile; in hourly wages, the median pay for an adjunct at a two-year college was only $11.19."
Source (http://http://www.mla.org/commcollege_teachcar)[/list]
My guess is that the pay for such an instructor teaching a course at ASR may have been somewhat less, given that the students were all high school level, but I could be wrong.
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Additional information relevant to my above post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=32018&p=387798#p387794):
Based on United States Department of Education data for 2003 with regard to adjunct instructors at community colleges, "the salary per course at public two-year colleges ranged from a low of $1,397 at the 25th percentile to a high of $3,000 at the 90th percentile; in hourly wages, the median pay for an adjunct at a two-year college was only $11.19."
Source (http://http://www.mla.org/commcollege_teachcar)[/list]
My guess is that the pay for such an instructor teaching a course at ASR may have been somewhat less, given that the students were all high school level, but I could be wrong.
Geesh, that terrible. No wonder we cant get good teachers anymore.
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Hmmmmm, I would imagine that there are other Alum Interviews. Why not post them all instead of cherry picking?
Most businesses go through them all and pick the best one or two and present them. The negative ones would never be posted we all know that plus the good ones help with their marketing. Any negative interviews would not help too much.
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So, in other words this is blatant advertising taken right from a marketing website? Yup! Shaw `nuff!
http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html (http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html)
What do ya'll think? Should I ax the entire thread or is there any useful, relevant conversation going on further down the page?
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Can you tell a story of a situation that resulted in positive growth for you? Even if you didn't see it at the time?
My situation occurred while I was 13 months into my program and about to leave for Costa Rica and graduate three months later. I went on my last home visit first, and relapsed. I woke up in the hospital and started to freak out because I knew I had messed up my life now. Why would my mom think that I was going to change or had changed if I came home near the end of my program and got alcohol poisoning? It was an uncomfortable situation for my family and for me. I was disappointed in myself and I knew it was going to be a lot of work to get back on track. My mom and I had a huge dispute about returning to ASR. She said I was not going back and she never wanted to see me again, and I was begging her to please let me go back to ASR. I knew being around her wasn't going to get any better and ASR would help me work through my mistakes. Finally she brought me back. Since I had relapsed, I was not allowed to go to Costa Rica with my peer group, which really upset me; but it was probably a good thing it happened. Even though I relapsed and paid the consequences, it was a positive growth event for me in that it made me realize what is important in life and how my decisions affect everyone around me.
Gee....I wonder if the "relapse" had anything to do with either the self-fulfilling prophecy (if you leave you'll be deadinsaneorinjail) or just from the simple fact that she had been isolated for so long and kinda went a little off, or both.
I wonder what would have happened if this kid had been allowed to simply grow up and out of her "bad behavior" like most kids do by suffering the natural consequences of their actions.
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I don't get it. Why would these Johnny Jerk offs advertise a story about a person relapsing if they want to make allot of money. :smashcomp:
Because if they 'relapse' they get sent back, which means more money for the Jerk Offs.
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Hmmmmm, I would imagine that there are other Alum Interviews. Why not post them all instead of cherry picking?
Most businesses go through them all and pick the best one or two and present them. The negative ones would never be posted we all know that plus the good ones help with their marketing. Any negative interviews would not help too much.
So, in other words this is blatant advertising taken right from a marketing website? Yup! Shaw `nuff!
http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html (http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html)
What do ya'll think? Should I ax the entire thread or is there any useful, relevant conversation going on further down the page?
I'd say leave it. It makes for good target practice! :D
Gotta hone up them critical thinking skills...
::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy::
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I vote to leave it.
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I really dont think she would be interested too much.
Translation: "I fabricated a daughter."
Anyway, back when Whooter's posts were strung together and it showed he had over 7,000 anonymous posts he claimed it was his wife and daughter doing the posting. He has also claimed his daughter never posted here. There is no daughter, people. No daughter, no son, no "program success story"...it's all fake.
Whooter has told so many lies that he can no longer keep them straight. He tells all sorts of stories with all different, mutually exculsive details. He doesn't even know when his fabricated daughter went to ASR. He changed that story a half dozen times, too.
Aspen's whole story and Whooter's whole story are straight-up fiction.
I spend a lot of time in northern Vermont and have a hunting/fishing lodge right on Isle La Motte in Lake Champlain (right over the causeway from St. Albans) and I can tell you for a fact that there isn't even a Costco in St. Albans. The closest one is all the way down by Burlington and nobody is going to make that drive for a part-time job. The whole story is just plain old phony.
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It isn't that hard to spend time with their child, go to a child's sporting event, be fair / consistent with rules in their home, ensure their child is doing home work, inquire how their child is doing in school etc. These schools are really a baby sitting money venture.
Actually, I think that for some people it's pretty near impossible and for others pretty near automatic.
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Hmmmmm, I would imagine that there are other Alum Interviews. Why not post them all instead of cherry picking?
Most businesses go through them all and pick the best one or two and present them. The negative ones would never be posted we all know that plus the good ones help with their marketing. Any negative interviews would not help too much.
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So, in other words this is blatant advertising taken right from a marketing website? Yup! Shaw `nuff!
http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html (http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html)
What do ya'll think? Should I ax the entire thread or is there any useful, relevant conversation going on further down the page?
I'd say leave it, it can be referenced whenever we need proof of Whooters foolishness.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone. I dont think a post or two will change peoples thinking here enough to lose any followers. Pull some old abuse stories out from the straight archives, hold your hands over your eyes and ears and keep saying to yourselves:
"All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad"
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It isn't that hard to spend time with their child, go to a child's sporting event, be fair / consistent with rules in their home, ensure their child is doing home work, inquire how their child is doing in school etc. These schools are really a baby sitting money venture.
I disagree here. The kids come from all types of parenting types. Some have parents who both work others from families where the mother stayed home. One parent was very strict with their children while another allowed their child to come and go all hours of the day or night. Many of the kids had siblings who were doing fine and moving on with their lives so there is not any common thread which points to a lack of parenting skills or something the parents missed that caused the child to become at-risk.
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One family was very strict with their children while another allowed their child to come and go all hours of the day or night.
Who fault is that, Whooter? Common logic dictates parents should be consistent when they uphold the rules but but you know that. The parents acting (in your example) like incompetent turds created a mess. They should man up, not spend $5,000 monthly for strangers to clean up their mess.
Whoops, I agree with you consistency is key, I meant to say one set of parents (one family).
Common logic dictates parents are %100 responsible for supervising their child. The should employ someone to do it or another family person.
Parents are responsible for raising their children. But some households have both parents who work outside the home. I agree that the ideal would be to have one parent home all the time but times have changed. I dont think there is a common thread that points to parenting (or a specific parenting style) as the cause for having an at-risk child.
We :D can conclude the chances of you understanding/accepting the aforesaid would be comparable to some persons chances of grabbing hold of a lubed up watermelon in a swimming pool.
lol, my use of analogies is becoming contagious. I like that one! Very visual.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone. I dont think a post or two will change peoples thinking here enough to lose any followers. Pull some old abuse stories out from the straight archives, hold your hands over your eyes and ears and keep saying to yourselves:
"All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad"
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Do you have an interview from any of the dead kids? Oh yeah, they're dead. Sorry, never mind.
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Parents are responsible for raising their children. But some households have both parents who work outside the home. I agree that the ideal would be to have one parent home all the time but times have changed. I dont think there is a common thread that points to parenting (or a specific parenting style) as the cause for having an at-risk child.
Who cares if there isn't a thread that supports parenting as the cause for having an at risk child. Go stove pipe someone else with your ill founded reasoning. But since were discussing that, look yourself in the mirror tonight and ask yourself, "Is my parenting style responsible for my daughter being an at risk teen?" It is time for a reality check, Whooter. If you do have a child, man up and speak to her about what went on behind closed doors.
I wasnt asking for a thread of any kind. I was pointing out that the common denominator of kids at risk is not linked to any one parenting style or lack of parenting.
Anne Bonney had/has an at-risk teen. She spent time with her children and I dont point to her parenting style for what resulted in her having a teen at risk. If a parent has 3 kids and they are all raised the same and one of them adopts an at-risk life style the common thread is not the parenting.
Think about it,Gatekeeper.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone.
No, but when it's pulled directly from an Aspen marketing site it kinda loses credibility.
"All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad", "All Programs are Bad"
We haven't said that. YOU'VE said that we've said that. We've said that programs that use the LGAT-type methods are bad. We've said that programs that isolate kids from the rest of the world are bad. We've said a lot about certain types of programs but I don't recall anyone saying that no kid ever needed help or that every single program offered out there is bad. The programs that you seem to advocate are bad (Aspen Ed, LGAT-style, wilderness 'therapy' that literally hike kids to death etc.).
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Anne Bonney had/has an at-risk teen. She spent time with her children and I dont point to her parenting style for what resulted in her having a teen at risk.
Well, I will. It wasn't all me, but I was heavily influenced by Straight and got pregnant shortly after graduating. The Straight influence couldn't help but have creeped into my parenting at least a little. I've even talked about it here before. And apologized profusely to my kids for it. Unfortunately, they still have to deal with their father who, depending on if he's gotten himself in trouble again, uses Straight-thinking/AA thinking as a battering ram at them.
If a parent has 3 kids and they are all raised the same and one of them adopts an at-risk life style the common thread is not the parenting.
Not necessarily. Maybe two of the kids fit into what the parents ideal is for them but the third wants to do something that differs from what the parents want. That kid could very well end up in a program simply because he doesn't react like a carbon copy of the parents and the other two kids do.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone.
No, but when it's pulled directly from an Aspen marketing site it kinda loses credibility.
It doesnt lose credibility with anyone but you. The child doing the interview was probably not aware that her story would be used for marketing purposes. Programs interview a lot of kids after they leave the program. My daughter was interviewed by SUWS over the phone after she left ASR. Most businesses try to reach out and get a feel from their customers on how they are doing and to get a level of the water so to speak.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone.
No, but when it's pulled directly from an Aspen marketing site it kinda loses credibility.
It doesnt lose credibility with anyone but you. The child doing the interview was probably not aware that her story would be used for marketing purposes. Programs interview a lot of kids after they leave the program. My daughter was interviewed by SUWS over the phone after she left ASR. Most businesses try to reach out and get a feel from their customers on how they are doing and to get a level of the water so to speak.
Mmm hmmm......and you've heard how many of us were gung-ho supporters of our programs for a time after getting out. Then when we realized that what we were taught did not match with reality, we woke up.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone.
No, but when it's pulled directly from an Aspen marketing site it kinda loses credibility.
It doesnt lose credibility with anyone but you. The child doing the interview was probably not aware that her story would be used for marketing purposes. Programs interview a lot of kids after they leave the program. My daughter was interviewed by SUWS over the phone after she left ASR. Most businesses try to reach out and get a feel from their customers on how they are doing and to get a level of the water so to speak.
Mmm hmmm......and you've heard how many of us were gung-ho supporters of our programs for a time after getting out. Then when we realized that what we were taught did not match with reality, we woke up.
Anne, I do understand your need to discredit this feedback from a fellow survivor. It seems your rule is any negative stories of programs are credible from day one but any positive stories are rejected out of hand until the person has been out of a program for 20 years or more. This rule allows you to reject anything positive and keep your mind closed to new information.
The rest of the world does not follow your rules which is fortunate for them.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone.
No, but when it's pulled directly from an Aspen marketing site it kinda loses credibility.
It doesnt lose credibility with anyone but you. The child doing the interview was probably not aware that her story would be used for marketing purposes. Programs interview a lot of kids after they leave the program. My daughter was interviewed by SUWS over the phone after she left ASR. Most businesses try to reach out and get a feel from their customers on how they are doing and to get a level of the water so to speak.
Mmm hmmm......and you've heard how many of us were gung-ho supporters of our programs for a time after getting out. Then when we realized that what we were taught did not match with reality, we woke up.
Anne, I do understand your need to discredit this feedback from a fellow survivor. It seems your rule is any negative stories of programs are credible from day one but any positive stories are rejected out of hand until the person has been out of a program for 20 years or more. This rule allows you to reject anything positive and keep your mind closed to new information.
The rest of the world does not follow your rules which is fortunate for them.
This wasn't some random story.....it was lifted directly from the Aspen site. You don't see just a little bit of bias in that???
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This wasn't some random story.....it was lifted directly from the Aspen site. You don't see just a little bit of bias in that???
Of course it is biased, Anne. They probably have feed back which isnt so good or a kid telling them to F### off. But they are not going to post that. The general public knows that they are posting only the most flattering interviews. All businesses do this and hospitals too.
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This wasn't some random story.....it was lifted directly from the Aspen site. You don't see just a little bit of bias in that???
Of course it is biased, Anne. They probably have feed back which isnt so good or a kid telling them to F### off. But they are not going to post that. The general public knows that they are posting only the most flattering interviews. All businesses do this and hospitals too.
Yes, but you posted the thread without that caveat. You posted it like it was just some random person praising the program.
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Not to mention the story is fake, vis a vis there isn't even a Costco in St. Albans for this alleged ASR grad to work for. That's just one tip-off that it's fabricated like Whooter's invented kids.
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This wasn't some random story.....it was lifted directly from the Aspen site. You don't see just a little bit of bias in that???
Of course it is biased, Anne. They probably have feed back which isnt so good or a kid telling them to F### off. But they are not going to post that. The general public knows that they are posting only the most flattering interviews. All businesses do this and hospitals too.
Yes, but you posted the thread without that caveat. You posted it like it was just some random person praising the program.
I posted the interview along with the link. The review says nice things about ASR and her time there. It also says she would never want to go back there again. I found it interesting so I shared it with everyone here. It doesnt say there were many other interviews to choose from and they choose just this one to post. I am just saying from experience this is what businesses do. I dont know this as a fact.
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It's fake anyway, so nobody cares.
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone.
No, but when it's pulled directly from an Aspen marketing site it kinda loses credibility.
Plus it violates the anti-spam policy
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Then a ban is in order. Whooter has been banned three times previously for his behavior - twice for flooding and once for PMing me after he was told not to do that again (he was flooding my PM box with dozens of PMs daily).
Posting fake interviews from an ASR marketing site shouldn't be allowed.
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Parents are responsible for raising their children. But some households have both parents who work outside the home.
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That's not what I was talking about when I said it's nearly impossible for some parents to be attentive and nearly automatic for others. I'm talking about temperament, personality, realness. Seems to me that typical program parents are those who just don't get it. They view involvement in their kids' lives as a chore, not a pleasure.
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Then a ban is in order. Whooter has been banned three times previously for his behavior - twice for flooding and once for PMing me after he was told not to do that again (he was flooding my PM box with dozens of PMs daily).
Posting fake interviews from an ASR marketing site shouldn't be allowed.
Dysfunction Junction, can you possibly want any more attention? Your cries for sympathy is shameful. I'll tell you what you come up with 12 PM's that I sent you in a single day and you can have psy Ban me...... actually if you can come up with 12 PM's I sent you in a weeks time I will commit to being banned... aww what the heck. Its the Christmas season. Produce 12 PM's that I sent you over the last 12 months and I will commit to being banned.
Dont start crying that the dog ate your hard drive now... lol
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Parents are responsible for raising their children. But some households have both parents who work outside the home.
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That's not what I was talking about when I said it's nearly impossible for some parents to be attentive and nearly automatic for others. I'm talking about temperament, personality, realness. Seems to me that typical program parents are those who just don't get it. They view involvement in their kids' lives as a chore, not a pleasure.
I didnt see it that way when I met the parents as ASR and SUWS. They seemed very engaged for the most part, they had other kids who were doing well in the family. I think some parents had some issues they were dealing with like divorce etc. but this is typical in all walks of society.
I didnt see any differences from any other cross section of parents that I come in contact with or have met over the years.
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Then a ban is in order. Whooter has been banned three times previously for his behavior - twice for flooding and once for PMing me after he was told not to do that again (he was flooding my PM box with dozens of PMs daily).
Posting fake interviews from an ASR marketing site shouldn't be allowed.
Dysfunction Junction, can you possibly want any more attention? Your cries for sympathy is shameful. I'll tell you what you come up with 12 PM's that I sent you in a single day and you can have psy Ban me...... actually if you can come up with 12 PM's I sent you in a weeks time I will commit to being banned... aww what the heck. Its the Christmas season. Produce 12 PM's that I sent you over the last 12 months and I will commit to being banned.
Dont start crying that the dog ate your hard drive now... lol
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You were just banned for it two weeks ago. The record speaks for itself. Psy banned you for PMing me when you were ordered not to do so. If you want to try to say I'm lying, go ahead and send me one right now. I think we both know you won't because you were already banned for it once and you're too scared to tempt fate again.
Here's eight PMs in just a few hours. (http://http://s1014.photobucket.com/albums/af262/dysfunction_junction/?action=view¤t=WhooterSpamPM.jpg#!oZZ4QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1014.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf262%2Fdysfunction_junction%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DWhooterSpamPM.jpg)
I don't know why you're so obsessed with me, but I think it's because you have a lot of issues.
Anyway, you can prove I'm lying by simply sending me a PM and not getting banned for it. You won't. You know what will happen.
Let's ghet back on topic about this phony interview with the made up girl who works at a Costco that doesn't even exist.
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Then a ban is in order. Whooter has been banned three times previously for his behavior - twice for flooding and once for PMing me after he was told not to do that again (he was flooding my PM box with dozens of PMs daily).
Posting fake interviews from an ASR marketing site shouldn't be allowed.
Dysfunction Junction, can you possibly want any more attention? Your cries for sympathy is shameful. I'll tell you what you come up with 12 PM's that I sent you in a single day and you can have psy Ban me...... actually if you can come up with 12 PM's I sent you in a weeks time I will commit to being banned... aww what the heck. Its the Christmas season. Produce 12 PM's that I sent you over the last 12 months and I will commit to being banned.
Dont start crying that the dog ate your hard drive now... lol
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You were just banned for it two weeks ago. The record speaks for itself. Psy banned you for PMing me when you were ordered not to do so. If you want to try to say I'm lying, go ahead and send me one right now. I think we both know you won't because you were already banned for it once and you're too scared to tempt fate again.
Here's eight PMs in just a few hours. (http://http://s1014.photobucket.com/albums/af262/dysfunction_junction/?action=view¤t=WhooterSpamPM.jpg#!oZZ4QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1014.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf262%2Fdysfunction_junction%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DWhooterSpamPM.jpg)
I don't know why you're so obsessed with me, but I think it's because you have a lot of issues.
Anyway, you can prove I'm lying by simply sending me a PM and not getting banned for it. You won't. You know what will happen.
Let's ghet back on topic about this phony interview with the made up girl who works at a Costco that doesn't even exist.
So you cannot produce 12 PM's from me over the last 12 months? lol I thought so. How about the dozens you claim I send you every day? lol.
Sorry DJ, you cried one too many times and now you have been called onto the carpet. Again, can you produce 12 PM's that I sent you over the past 12 months?
No phony screen shots, we will have Psy verify them.
Are you going to run away again and change your name?
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So you're chicken to send one then, huh? That's what I thought. If I were lying, you'd prove it by just sending a PM.
Cluck, cluck, cluck!
If what I am saying isn't true, please explain why you were banned for PMing me just two weeks ago. But you should start a thread in the OFFA because you are derailing this one with your off topic inanities. You can attack me all you want in the OFFA, no worries.
Please stay on topic. Fake girl...fake story...fake Costco... Back on track, folks.
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So you're chicken to send one then, huh? That's what I thought. If I were lying, you'd prove it by just sending a PM.
Cluck, cluck, cluck!
If what I am saying isn't true, please explain why you were banned for PMing me just two weeks ago. But you should start a thread in the OFFA because you are derailing this one with your off topic inanities. You can attack me all you want in the OFFA, no worries.
Please stay on topic. Fake girl...fake story...fake Costco... Back on track, folks.
As a result of a disagreement you and I agreed not to PM each other. We talked this over with Psy. If you pm'd me then you would be banned, If I PM'd you I would be banned and then I PM'd you with this PM:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31630&start=0p=386280view=show#p386280).
So I was banned for it (but it was worth it, smile).
Now you claimed that I send you dozens of PM's a day. You are crying to the readers so I offered you a chance to prove yourself. We can finish this in the OFFA if you like. But I thought you might want to respond to the readers here before we move the conversation down:
So you cannot produce 12 PM's from me over the last 12 months? lol I thought so. How about the dozens you claim I send you every day? lol.
Can you produce 12 PM's that I sent you over the past 12 months?
No phony screen shots, we will have Psy verify them.
Are you going to run away again and change your name?
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Geesh, put the torches down, go home and have a beer or a Blunt. A little interview from a survivor that doesnt fit the fornits mold isnt going to hurt anyone.
No, but when it's pulled directly from an Aspen marketing site it kinda loses credibility.
Plus it violates the anti-spam policy
How can this violate the anti spam policy? Its feedback from a fellow survivor. Why do they have to walk in lock step with fornits thinking to be considered okay to post their story here?
Another way to look at it:
If you really feel that all these kids are brainwashed then why not feel sorry for them and post the stories as proof that brainwashing occurs? How could anyone be that happy if they were not the subject of thought reform? If she starts talking negative about the program you could redefine her as credible and everyone can start to relax again.
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Sorry DJ, I just needed to expose you. When psy mentioned that you would have to start proving the whole PM problem where you claimed I was PMing (dozens per day that you claim) by allowing him access to your PM's you clammed up. He told you that you could not photoshop PM's as proof.
So now you start crying that I sent you dozens of PM's a day again and I ask you to provide just 12 in the past year.. any 12 PM's lol and you run off again. Who will you become now? "Dysfunction Yeoman"? Why do you always want the readers to feel sorry for you? Like you are being picked on by Bad Whooter.
I noticed that you interacted with other people today without all of them being attacks and you stuck with one log-in the whole day. So we know you can do it. Pick a name, be honest and just interact with the rest of us and tell us how you feel on the various topics. We can always use another point of view.... and give up your PM infatuation!!! lol
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Its feedback from a fellow survivor.
Programs have a reputation of "false advertising." :D You already knew that, Whooter. I moved your thread back to this forum and quit your whining.
So does fornits! We proved that in another thread. But it doesnt mean that everyone lies, GateKeeper. The posting on the ASR website posted her first name and where she lived. If they twisted her words she would know quick enough and could sue them. The stories credibility is very high.
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I would call her "Mary" if I wanted to make allot of money. :D What about Stacy, Suzy, Rhonda or Brenda? Mary is a perfect cover name. :rofl: Me thinks ASR aren't the only persons who made up a fictitious child! :roflmao:
So any story on fornits could be made up too. How many people by the name of Anne Bonney went to Straight? See what I mean? Does it make the story any less credible?
We both know that everyone is looking for a way to discredit that survivors story. DJ is saying Costco is too far of a drive for her and therefore the story is false, we have seen people say she was brainwashed, you say her name could be false. Lots of energy devoted to trying to discredit the story so that you do not have to deal with it.
Its a survivor story.
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Gotcha, you are using the term survivor to further the credibility of a program run by you "endorse!" :D
That is your term for a person who passed through a program, not mine. She survived ASR and has told her story. She should get as much respect as anyone else, she should not be judged or cast off because she had a different experience than you.
I do like the term survivor, though. They have survivor t-shirts now for men who survived their wedding day. It is a growing business.
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I PMed you
Yes, you did, many times. Thanks for finally getting honest about it.
And...
I was banned for it
Yes, you were. Finally the truth comes out of the congenital liar. :nods:
See? That wasn't so hard, now was it? A little honesty goes a long way if you want to have some credibility. Glad to see you back in the OFFA where you belong. Try not to disrupt all of the threads again today with your trolling.
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ASR has along history of false advertising and storytelling. Many Ed Cons now will not refer to Aspen programs because of their false and deceptive advertising. This "interview" is just another work of fiction to try to get heads in beds.
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ASR has along history of false advertising and storytelling. Many Ed Cons now will not refer to Aspen programs because of their false and deceptive advertising. This "interview" is just another work of fiction to try to get heads in beds.
Its very possible the same as your story could be fabricated to discredit Aspen. The main thing is that we all get to express our opinions, allow people to read for themselves and make an informed choice. I think we can all agree here.
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ASR has along history of false advertising and storytelling. Many Ed Cons now will not refer to Aspen programs because of their false and deceptive advertising. This "interview" is just another work of fiction to try to get heads in beds.
Its very possible the same as your story could be fabricated to discredit Aspen.
Even if that were true (which it's not), it's not even close to the same thing. Aspen is a company, charging people for their services. DJ is just a guy, trying to tell his story.
The main thing is that we all get to express our opinions, allow people to read for themselves and make an informed choice. I think we can all agree here.
Stop using "we". We've talked about this before. You did well for a while, but it's slipping back in now and then.
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Its very possible the same as your story could be fabricated to discredit Aspen.
Even if that were true (which it's not), it's not even close to the same thing. Aspen is a company, charging people for their services. DJ is just a guy, trying to tell his story.
The point is that this is a forum where people post their thoughts and ideas. They post links to studies and news articles. If you and DJ feel they are false or that you feel you debunked a study then that is fine, you should express this openly. But you are speaking for yourselves. I can believe that all the survivors stories are made up or all of them are true or maybe some are false and some are true. I get to decide this on my own. If you feel the girls interview is false then dont believe it.
Aspen has a right to perform interviews with the students that passed through their programs. If the kids okay it then they can post them for people to see. Its a first hand account of a survivor who is expressing how they feel and their experiences. This is completely natural and the great thing is we all get to chose to believe it or not.
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Its very possible the same as your story could be fabricated to discredit Aspen.
Even if that were true (which it's not), it's not even close to the same thing. Aspen is a company, charging people for their services. DJ is just a guy, trying to tell his story.
The point is that this is a forum where people post their thoughts and ideas. They post links to studies and news articles. If you and DJ feel they are false or that you feel you debunked a study then that is fine, you should express this openly. But you are speaking for yourselves. I can believe that all the survivors stories are made up or all of them are true or maybe some are false and some are true. I get to decide this on my own. If you feel the girls interview is false then dont believe it.
Aspen has a right to perform interviews with the students that passed through their programs. If the kids okay it then they can post them for people to see. Its a first hand account of a survivor who is expressing how they feel and their experiences. This is completely natural and the great thing is we all get to chose to believe it or not.
No, the point is that Aspen is using these stories as marketing tools in order to increase their intakes and increase their profits. DJ is doing no such thing.
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Its very possible the same as your story could be fabricated to discredit Aspen.
Even if that were true (which it's not), it's not even close to the same thing. Aspen is a company, charging people for their services. DJ is just a guy, trying to tell his story.
The point is that this is a forum where people post their thoughts and ideas. They post links to studies and news articles. If you and DJ feel they are false or that you feel you debunked a study then that is fine, you should express this openly. But you are speaking for yourselves. I can believe that all the survivors stories are made up or all of them are true or maybe some are false and some are true. I get to decide this on my own. If you feel the girls interview is false then dont believe it.
Aspen has a right to perform interviews with the students that passed through their programs. If the kids okay it then they can post them for people to see. Its a first hand account of a survivor who is expressing how they feel and their experiences. This is completely natural and the great thing is we all get to chose to believe it or not.
No, the point is that Aspen is using these stories as marketing tools in order to increase their intakes and increase their profits. DJ is doing no such thing.
..... why shouldn't they use it in their marketing strategy? If you owned a bagel company and you had a customer who said things about your bagels you may want to use this in your marketing strategy. This wouldn't make you evil or anything.
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Its very possible the same as your story could be fabricated to discredit Aspen.
Even if that were true (which it's not), it's not even close to the same thing. Aspen is a company, charging people for their services. DJ is just a guy, trying to tell his story.
The point is that this is a forum where people post their thoughts and ideas. They post links to studies and news articles. If you and DJ feel they are false or that you feel you debunked a study then that is fine, you should express this openly. But you are speaking for yourselves. I can believe that all the survivors stories are made up or all of them are true or maybe some are false and some are true. I get to decide this on my own. If you feel the girls interview is false then dont believe it.
Aspen has a right to perform interviews with the students that passed through their programs. If the kids okay it then they can post them for people to see. Its a first hand account of a survivor who is expressing how they feel and their experiences. This is completely natural and the great thing is we all get to chose to believe it or not.
No, the point is that Aspen is using these stories as marketing tools in order to increase their intakes and increase their profits. DJ is doing no such thing.
..... why shouldn't they use it in their marketing strategy? If you owned a bagel company and you had a customer who said things about your bagels you may want to use this in your marketing strategy. This wouldn't make you evil or anything.
"They" can....but you chose to post it here like it was just some random student that decided to come over here and post it.
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Plus it violates the anti-spam policy
How can this violate the anti spam policy?
Because it's an unverified, likely fictitious, page from a program's marketing website. You just copied and pasted an advertisement. How in the world is that not spam? Plus, ss DJ points out above, there is no Costco store located in St. Albans. So that much of the writing is false. What else is false?
It's not as if this person, real or imagined, came here and posted this herself.
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Plus it violates the anti-spam policy
How can this violate the anti spam policy?
Because it's an unverified, likely fictitious, page from a program's marketing website. You just copied and pasted an advertisement. How in the world is that not spam? Plus, ss DJ points out above, there is no Costco store located in St. Albans. So that much of the writing is false. What else is false?
It's not as if this person, real or imagined, came here and posted this herself.
Bingo! That's what I've been trying to say to him (Whooter). It's not like this person (real or otherwise) decided to come over here herself and post this. It's a blatant marketing attempt by Whooter, i.e. :spam:
However, I vote to leave it to show the lengths that programs will go to in order to quash the truth and up their enrollment.
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Plus it violates the anti-spam policy
How can this violate the anti spam policy?
Because it's an unverified, likely fictitious, page from a program's marketing website. You just copied and pasted an advertisement. How in the world is that not spam? Plus, ss DJ points out above, there is no Costco store located in St. Albans. So that much of the writing is false. What else is false?
It's not as if this person, real or imagined, came here and posted this herself.
Its a survivor story from a girl that attended ASR. How is that Spam? Why are her words spam but Anne Bonneys words or your words not spam? Maybe ASR is using the positive feedback as part of their marketing strategy but that is not the girls fault. If a Ford minivan gets a five start crash test rating then they may use this as part of their marketing strategy. It doesnt make it spam.
She is living and going to school in Burlington Vermont. Oh, They have a costco about 3 blocks from UVM campus.
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Plus it violates the anti-spam policy
How can this violate the anti spam policy?
Because it's an unverified, likely fictitious, page from a program's marketing website. You just copied and pasted an advertisement. How in the world is that not spam? Plus, ss DJ points out above, there is no Costco store located in St. Albans. So that much of the writing is false. What else is false?
It's not as if this person, real or imagined, came here and posted this herself.
Bingo! That's what I've been trying to say to him (Whooter). It's not like this person (real or otherwise) decided to come over here herself and post this. It's a blatant marketing attempt by Whooter, i.e. :spam:
However, I vote to leave it to show the lengths that programs will go to in order to quash the truth and up their enrollment.
Yup, yup. And the fake interview said she worked at Costco for a year before she went to college and was living in St. Albans. There ain't no Costco there, bud. I'm there several times year and there is, for sure, no Costco in St. Albans.
She worked full time at Costco for the first year following graduation while exploring college options and considering what she wanted to do. Subsequently she entered the University of Vermont
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Plus it violates the anti-spam policy
How can this violate the anti spam policy?
Because it's an unverified, likely fictitious, page from a program's marketing website. You just copied and pasted an advertisement. How in the world is that not spam? Plus, ss DJ points out above, there is no Costco store located in St. Albans. So that much of the writing is false. What else is false?
It's not as if this person, real or imagined, came here and posted this herself.
Bingo! That's what I've been trying to say to him (Whooter). It's not like this person (real or otherwise) decided to come over here herself and post this. It's a blatant marketing attempt by Whooter, i.e. :spam:
However, I vote to leave it to show the lengths that programs will go to in order to quash the truth and up their enrollment.
Yup, yup. And the fake interview said she worked at Costco for a year before she went to college and was living in St. Albans. There ain't no Costco there, bud.
St. Albans was where she grew up. The article didnt say she lived in St. Albans after leaving ASR. She spent the first year out of ASR working full time at Costco. She ended up going to UVM where there is a Costco a couple of blocks from campus and continued to work there part-time.
If you want to call a survivors story fake then that is your call, DJ. I respect your right to view it anyway you like. But it doesnt change her story or how the rest of the world perceives it.
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It's phony, like you. Her "story" carries as much weight as yours does. They are both figments of an Aspen marketer's imagination. Sorry, no offense, but you, after admitting being an Aspen fiduciary and being caught lying so often about your own "story" (fabricated children, mixed up dates, etc, etc, etc), can't be believed on this subject. And we all know already that Aspen uses false advertising and many Ed Cons no longer will refer to them because of their dishonesty.
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It's phony, like you. Her "story" carries as much weight as yours does. They are both figments of an Aspen marketer's imagination. Sorry, no offense, but you, after admitting being an Aspen fiduciary, can't be believed on this subject. And we all know already that Aspen uses false advertising and many Ed Cons no longer will refer to them because of their dishonesty.
Like I said it is fine, DJ, it is your right to feel it is fake. But the bottom line is this girl has the right to say what she feels was her experience. What I typically do is ignore information that I think is fake. But when I last looked the information is still posted on ASR's web site, so I have to go with that for now. If more information comes in convincing the rest of us that it is fake I will let you know and post it here. Lets us know what you find.
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Its a survivor story from a girl that attended ASR. How is that Spam? Why are her words spam but Anne Bonneys words or your words not spam?
Because we actually wrote them and are here to answer any questions regarding our statements. All you've done is copy/pasted a quote from the marketing arm of Aspen Ed.
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It's fake and comes from a marketing site that has been called out by its own referring agencies as being dishonest. I think we all realize Aspen's marketing is false and can't be relied upon. Same as Whooter's statements. Proven false so many times that they no longer bear merit going forward. Does Whooter really expect to convince anyone after his admission he's tied financially to Aspen? If so, he's not that smart and is wasting everyone's time and the bandwidth of this site as well.
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Its a survivor story from a girl that attended ASR. How is that Spam? Why are her words spam but Anne Bonneys words or your words not spam?
Because we actually wrote them and are here to answer any questions regarding our statements. All you've done is copy/pasted a quote from the marketing arm of Aspen Ed.
If we investigated the people who attended straight I dont think we would find the name Anne Bonney anywhere on that list or Antigen. You people could be anyone for all we know. We just have to decide to believe your stories or not and you need to do the same thing with each other. You cant discredit her story because you dont know her, you can only decide for yourself not anyone else. I cant discredit your story because I dont know you, I cant verify your story as fact either.
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It's fake and comes from a marketing site that has been called out by its own referring agencies as being dishonest. I think we all realize Aspen's marketing is false and can't be relied upon. Same as Whooter's statements. Proven false so many times that they no longer bear merit going forward. Does Whooter really expect to convince anyone after his admission he's tied financially to Aspen? If so, he's not that smart and is wasting everyone's time and the bandwidth of this site as well.
This hurdle will have to be overcome for this "interview" to have any credibility. All I see is a lot of side-stepping and deflections.
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It's fake and comes from a marketing site that has been called out by its own referring agencies as being dishonest. I think we all realize Aspen's marketing is false and can't be relied upon. Same as Whooter's statements. Proven false so many times that they no longer bear merit going forward. Does Whooter really expect to convince anyone after his admission he's tied financially to Aspen? If so, he's not that smart and is wasting everyone's time and the bandwidth of this site as well.
This hurdle will have to be overcome for this "interview" to have any credibility. All I see is a lot of side-stepping and deflections.
Then toss it aside,DJ, and dont believe it. But as hard as you try the article stands. I will click on the link in a day or two, if you like, to see if anyone has proved it false or not. But as of now we have to go with the facts as they are written.
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I didn't see any facts at all. All I saw was a marketing bulletin from a company proven to falsely market themselves. Go find the girl, bring her on here and let her tell the story. Aspen Ed doesn't deal in facts. They deal in fiction, especially in the marketing realm. You made claims about this girl, so you have to prove them, not me. Nobody puts any stock in your opinions or Aspen's marketing. You're both very unconvincing. No offense, but with your reputations, you just can't be relied upon. Sorry.
I fabricated a son
See what I mean? lol.
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I PMed you
Yes, you did, many times. Thanks for finally getting honest about it.
And...
I was banned for it
Yes, you were. Finally the truth comes out of the congenital liar. :nods:
See? That wasn't so hard, now was it? A little honesty goes a long way if you want to have some credibility. Glad to see you back in the OFFA where you belong. Try not to disrupt all of the threads again today with your trolling.
Can't backtrack on something you already admitted, asswipe. PM me again and see what happens. Or are you chicken? Or just a liar? Or both? ; )
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I didn't see any facts at all. All I saw was a marketing bulletin from a company proven to falsely market themselves. Go find the girl, bring her on here and let her tell the story. Aspen Ed doesn't deal in facts. They deal in fiction, especially in the marketing realm. You made claims about this girl, so you have to prove them, not me. Nobody puts any stock in your opinions or Aspen's marketing. You're both very unconvincing. No offense, but with your reputations, you just can't be relied upon. Sorry.
I fabricated a son
See what I mean? lol.
If you dont believe the girls story then dont believe it. But as far as I know the interview is still on the web site. You can take a personal stand to think it isnt real or credible and that is fine.
I think we can all agree that the strength of these forums and web sites is everyone is presented with the same information and can decide for themselves whether they think it is credible or not.
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Can't backtrack on something you already admitted, asswipe. PM me again and see what happens. Or are you chicken? Or just a liar? Or both? ; )
Oh No! are you going to cry about the dozens of PM's you claim I send you every day?
lol Sorry DJ, I just needed to expose you. When psy mentioned that you would have to start proving the whole PM problem where you claimed I was PMing (dozens per day that you claim) by allowing him access to your PM's you clammed up. He told you that you could not photoshop PM's as proof.
So now you start crying that I sent you dozens of PM's a day again and I ask you to provide just 12 in the past year.. any 12 PM's lol and you run off again. Who will you become now? "Dysfunction Yeoman"? Why do you always want the readers to feel sorry for you? Like you are being picked on by Bad Whooter.
I noticed that you interacted with other people today without all of them being attacks and you stuck with one log-in the whole day. So we know you can do it. Pick a name, be honest and just interact with the rest of us and tell us how you feel on the various topics. We can always use another point of view.... and give up your PM infatuation!!! lol
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Why are her words spam but Anne Bonneys words or your words not spam?
Well, for one thing a lot of us know each other. Anne used to openly post under her real name, even providing her maiden name in order to find and reconnect with old friends. Lot of us have done that. Over the years a lot of us have become friends. Real live, face to face, in real life parties, memorials and other social connects. Some folks even remember Anne from back in the warehouse in St. Pete. And anyone can look up her father's and lots of other program vets' families in newspaper archives and corporate records. So these stories are verifiable and/or corroborated.
No one's making any money on negative information published about this industry. In fact a fair number of people have spent substantial amounts of their personal money to leak this information. When I did try to run commercial advertising, the only ads that came up were for the industry until word got out among the industry and most blocked their ads from appearing anywhere on fornits.com. So then we only got public service ads and never did make any money, even though our traffic was hitting 300k unique visitors per day. Evidently there is absolutely no commercial value to the content on this site.
It's not only about straight cash, either. We've been sued and threatened with legal action, hacked, fraudulently kicked off of servers, shut down via dubious legal claims, etc. Just like WikiLeaks.org. So what is the incentive to say these things and to stand by them with no compensation and, often, at considerable monetary and personal expense?
Question for ya, Whooter. If I were to go ahead and take your offer on FIOS, can I pay for it in Trident Stripes?
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Well, for one thing a lot of us know each other. Anne used to openly post under her real name, even providing her maiden name in order to find and reconnect with old friends. Lot of us have done that. Over the years a lot of us have become friends. Real live, face to face, in real life parties, memorials and other social connects. Some folks even remember Anne from back in the warehouse in St. Pete. And anyone can look up her father's and lots of other program vets' families in newspaper archives and corporate records. So these stories are verifiable and/or corroborated.
You guys know each other, but a new reader here doesnt know if your story or Anne Bonney is real or not. I am sure the girl who was in the ASR interview has friends that could verify her story also. Because we dont know her personally or her real name doesnt mean her story is spam or untrue. Almost all the stories on fornits are unverified.
No one's making any money on negative information published about this industry. In fact a fair number of people have spent substantial amounts of their personal money to leak this information. When I did try to run commercial advertising, the only ads that came up were for the industry until word got out among the industry and most blocked their ads from appearing anywhere on fornits.com. So then we only got public service ads and never did make any money, even though our traffic was hitting 300k unique visitors per day. Evidently there is absolutely no commercial value to the content on this site.
It's not only about straight cash, either. We've been sued and threatened with legal action, hacked, fraudulently kicked off of servers, shut down via dubious legal claims, etc. Just like WikiLeaks.org. So what is the incentive to say these things and to stand by them with no compensation and, often, at considerable monetary and personal expense?
I have read the hardships you guys have been through and you held on tight. I think this site has a knack for surviving. But if you were making money I dont think you would view yourself as less credible or as spam. I think many people view marketing as a bad thing. Everyone markets even your writer friend Maia.
Question for ya, Whooter. If I were to go ahead and take your offer on FIOS, can I pay for it in Trident Stripes?
I have no idea what this means. I dont remember making any offers on FIOS (which is the telephone I believe you are saying). But you and I have never spoke over the phone. I dont know what "Trident Stripes" means.
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However, I vote to leave it to show the lengths that programs will go to in order to quash the truth and up their enrollment.
I vote to leave it in too. How about a child who didnt do well in a program? Should we toss those stories out? They have a reason to embellish the truth a bit to try to discredit the program they were in (maybe knock the whole industry down a little to get even with them). Should we disregard all stories for 20 years until we are sure the brainwashing has worn off. Some kids may think they were abused today but 15 years from now they may realize they put their parents thru hell and deserved the placement and what they thought was abuse was really just a highly structured environment they were not use to which helped them survive a tumulus adolescence and get them back on track.
Maybe we should not vote at all, maybe the fair thing to do is accept everyones story and let the individual readers decide which one they feel are credible.
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Maybe we should not vote at all, maybe the fair thing to do is accept everyones story and let the individual readers decide which one they feel are credible.
But you're not doing that. You're cherry picking OTHER people's stories, not even your own and picking them from the marketing website for the program.
When you can speak of what it's like to be trapped inside one of those places for a couple of years, then you can post about your own experience with it.
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Maybe we should not vote at all, maybe the fair thing to do is accept everyones story and let the individual readers decide which one they feel are credible.
But you're not doing that. You're cherry picking OTHER people's stories, not even your own and picking them from the marketing website for the program.
When you can speak of what it's like to be trapped inside one of those places for a couple of years, then you can post about your own experience with it.
I didnt cherry pick that story, Anne. Its the only one they provided. If there were 5 stories I would have provided all 5 of them. As far as experience goes you dont have any experience of being inside any of these programs we are talking about, Anne. I have at least had a family member attend and have been to these places myself.
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But you're not doing that. You're cherry picking OTHER people's stories, not even your own and picking them from the marketing website for the program.
When you can speak of what it's like to be trapped inside one of those places for a couple of years, then you can post about your own experience with it.
Lets say that someone interviewed you, Anne for a story or web site. Would that automatically invalidate your story? Would we have to remove your story from the fornits forum as spam? Why the double standard?
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Anne I have to balance two hats at once here. I don't agree with everything Whooter says on fornits. Having said that, Whooter is allowed to post whatever he wants to on this website regardless how offensive it is. If he deviates from The Rules of The Board when he says something, that is another matter. < This coming from a moderating POV. Speaking from someone who has been in a CEDU program, I can see where you're coming from.
I wasn't asking for anything to be done. Just pointing out Whooter's attempts to deflect attention away from anything negative about programs.
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Bottom line: The story is fake. What else is there to talk about?
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When you can speak of what it's like to be trapped inside one of those places for a couple of years, then you can post about your own experience with it.
I was addressing the above highlighted in red, Anne. I stopped putting energy into Whooter spinning, deflecting attention away from anything negative about programs and him supporting the North Korean nuclear weapons program.
Ok.
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I was addressing the above highlighted in red, Anne. I stopped putting energy into Whooter spinning, deflecting attention away from anything negative about programs and him supporting the North Korean nuclear weapons program.
Dam, exposed again!!
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Life is good in North Korea:
(http://http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00862/460-kim-jong_862915c.jpg)
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Thread derailed by Aspen slackey and moderator. That's a new one.
Let's get back to the fake girl and phony interview.
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What are you happy to have left behind?
I am happy to leave behind anger, screaming, pain, dishonestly, dishonor.... anything that caused pain to my family and friends. I look back and am embarrassed at how I acted and treated people. I realize that my actions affected other people and do not enjoy knowing that I hurt many people in the past, but most of all I hurt myself.
Link (http://http://www.swiftriver.com/enews/v11issue1/alumni.html)
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Right off the bat there is no Costco in St. Albans where the girl allegedly worked. That's a tip-off right there. The closest one is an hour away. Plus it comes from an Aspen marketing site which are well known to be purveyors of falsehoods. The details don't line up in this ficytitious story, just l;ike all of Whooter's stories where he can't rememeber how long his "daughter" was in a program, what years she was in a program, who worked at it, etc. He gets all the details mixed up each time he tells the story and everyone can just tell it's phony.
So, Joel, by your commentary, I guess it's OK to derail threads if someone else has done so in the past (in your opinion). Thanks. I'll remember that. I guess that's why it's OK for you to derail any thread you like while slicing/dicing/cutting/pasting everything else you don't agree with. Keep on keeping on, derailer. Just don't come bitching to me about "forum rules" later. We now know it's OK to derail threads because the moderators do it.
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For the record, I did not write that. You shouldn't be trying to attribute it to me when it can be easily verified it was not penned by this author.
As an aside, it is just further derailment of this thread. I suggest you delete or move your off-topic responses and stop adding to them. Flouting the rules you are charged with enforcing is not a very responsible way to moderate and probably is at the root of a lot of the blowback you get. "Do as I say, not as I do" is program shit, Joel. It doesn't belong here, especially from a moderator.
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Right off the bat there is no Costco in St. Albans where the girl allegedly worked. That's a tip-off right there. The closest one is an hour away. Plus it comes from an Aspen marketing site which are well known to be purveyors of falsehoods. The details don't line up in this ficytitious story, just l;ike all of Whooter's stories where he can't rememeber how long his "daughter" was in a program, what years she was in a program, who worked at it, etc. He gets all the details mixed up each time he tells the story and everyone can just tell it's phony.
So, Joel, by your commentary, I guess it's OK to derail threads if someone else has done so in the past (in your opinion). Thanks. I'll remember that. I guess that's why it's OK for you to derail any thread you like while slicing/dicing/cutting/pasting everything else you don't agree with. Keep on keeping on, derailer. Just don't come bitching to me about "forum rules" later. We now know it's OK to derail threads because the moderators do it.
There is a Costco 2 blocks away from where she is attending college. She got a job in a college town after leaving ASR, very common. Your biggest enemy has always been the facts DJ. lol
these are the exact kind of posts you use to post for me when I exposed you. I see you are back to your old ticks, DJ:
Links (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=388458#p388458)
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I didn't write that. I think you did, probably. You're responsible for most of the porn, trash and other crap that gets posted here as an attempt to derail.
I guess I'll have to report this derailment to a real moderator who understands what "moderation" is to get your and Joel's off-topic posts removed. You two are quite the pair.
The phony interview said she worked for a year before applying to colleges and she lived in St. Albans. Ain't no Costco there, bud. I'll be up there next week and I can check to see if they built one since the last time I was up there three weeks ago, but I sincerely doubt it.
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The phony interview said she worked for a year before applying to colleges and she lived in St. Albans. Ain't no Costco there, bud. I'll be up there next week and I can check to see if they built one since the last time I was up there three weeks ago, but I sincerely doubt it.
Sorry, You dont have any credibility left. Map quest says there is one 2 blocks from where she is going to school. I am going with that. Like I said,DJ, the facts trip you up every time.
Phony interview, phony study !! lol Ouch you must be hurt'in, hitting an all time low trying to rely on Costco locations to discredit survivor stories.
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having read this interview it looks real enough to me. But it hardly seems an advertisement. The biggest thing that these places seem to boast about is forcing kids to be honest. Yet the girl admits that she was grossly mislead about what the day to day life of the school was like. No reasonable adult would have a good attitude to therapy if they were lied to so of course an angry kid is not going to miraculously be on board. She also describes some pretty confronting therapies. I have spoken to adult drug addicts and none of them have talked about "dreading" a group therapy situation continuously. i could understand if she said she was nervous the first time because she was not sure what to expect but to continually dread a therapy situation indicates that it is not doing its job. It was also pretty telling that the first thing she did when she came home was get alcohol poisoning. I know a lot of people relapse a few times if they have some kind of addiction issues but this was her first weekend at home. I would say this interview is an advertisement for why you should avoid this school. I hope she is doing well and she is enjoying her studies but i don't think the things she went through at this school make it worth it.