Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: dishdutyfugitive on December 31, 2007, 01:19:23 PM
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CEDU wasn't religious in the traditional biblical / church-going sense.
However, I find it fascinating that the original cult is Religion. CEDU and christianity (and most every organized religon) have much in common in that they employ very similiar behaviour/thought control methods.
I saw "jesus camp" on A&E last night and almost shit my pants.
It's scary. It reminds you of CEDU. It makes you wonder why people who run cult programs are so fucked in the head. Does 2+2 = 4 ???? Do we get to pick and choose which science we like? (The earth is 4.5 billion years old but 'christian creationists' qoute the bible and tell us the earth is ~10,000 years old
The film makers could have torn these evangelicals apart.
It took me 30 minutes to figure out the documentary was a completely unbiased documentary.
Watch out for the little kid, Levi, with the power mullet. He's either going to make one hell of a Navy Seal or become the next Jim Jones.
Trailer (The trailer doesn't do the film justice.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE)
Website
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/ (http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/)
It's on today. Tivo it
http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_de ... gid=260639 (http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=249251&airingid=260639)
Directors Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady take their cameras to pastor Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" camp where children as young as six are taught to become dedicated Christian soldiers in "God's army." We follow Levi, Rachael, Tory, and other children as they hone their "prophetic skills" and learn how to "take back America for Christ." This Academy Award-nominated film is a first-ever look at how born-again Christian children are being recruited and trained to become take part in American politics. (2006)
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I thought the shithole shut down during filming due to protests and hard negative publicity?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp)
In October 2006, Fischer announced that she would be shutting down the camp indefinitely due to negative reaction to the film.[9] According to Fischer's website, the owners of the property used for the camp shown in the film were concerned about vandalism to the premises following the film's release and thus will not allow it to be used for any future camps. Fischer has said that the camp will be indefinitely postponed until other suitable premises can be found, but it will be back
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here's the clip where they pray to the cardboard cutout of Dubya:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5CgvgjfwyPs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5CgvgjfwyPs)
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Religious cults are the grandaddy of all cults. the particular religion matters not..what matters is the intensity of the indoctrination, the methodology of the indoctrination, and of course the underlying message that the poor recipients are encoded with.
Here is one of my favorite videos that clarifies the issue. Please note, those watching who were forced as children to "motivate" in their own teen torture camp, that the more disturbing cults (jesus camp, the islamic 'schools') force the kids to do their own version of motivating...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgH ... 16&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgHQDs&feature=PlayList&p=E51A47F6F0CC7216&index=1)
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Doesn't it trip you the fuck out that no one calls religon out for the crock of shit it is?
My bottom line
If there is a god, it's unfortunate because man's handcrafted religious instituitions and his selfish nature have completely obscured god. It's these selfish, egomaniacal motherfuckers who start cults (from religons right on down the line to TBSs, ) that tell you to send in all your money, make up crazy stories and crazy rules and if you don't follow their rules you will perish and rot in hell because they have seen the light and it is prophecy.
I recently read where the bible says black people come from....it's so crazy. When god caused the flood, Noah built his ark and brought his 3 sons. 1 son was named Hamm. After the flood, Noah got good and liqoured up passed out naked. When he woke up he realized his sons knew about his debauchery and was embarrassed and livid. To make things right he raped Hamm and cast Hamm forth to Africa as a punishment. Black people descended from the 'Tribe of Hamm'.
Gee, that's plausible.... (well, the naked closet drinking & sodomy comitted by a religous man is). Gee, that's not racist.....I could take 10 hits of acid and still not come up with shit like that......
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Religious cults are the grandaddy of all cults. the particular religion matters not..what matters is the intensity of the indoctrination, the methodology of the indoctrination, and of course the underlying message that the poor recipients are encoded with.
Here is one of my favorite videos that clarifies the issue. Please note, those watching who were forced as children to "motivate" in their own teen torture camp, that the more disturbing cults (jesus camp, the islamic 'schools') force the kids to do their own version of motivating...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgH ... 16&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgHQDs&feature=PlayList&p=E51A47F6F0CC7216&index=1)
Oh look whose back.
We got work to do. PM me!
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I finally saw this Jesus Camp in full a few weeks ago on DVD. One one level it disturbed me but on another I would say to compare it to a program down plays what programs are. It seems that while those kids were certainly being indoctrinated into a disturbingly fanatical faith, they were there because they wanted to be. It was not a from of incarceration as such or a long term place. Just a really crazy religious camp. It also seems that while the services that had kids crying etc were possibly less than healthy the camp was not a punishment so the kids spent most of the time just doing normal summer camp things that they enjoyed.
It did not exactly make me wild about home schooling though. It seems levi's mum wanted him educated at home because she feared the world. It made me wonder if the cult is this one church or the conservative christian mind set which believes that we are best protected from a frightening and immoral world. The irony as I watched these suburban kids was that far from bring "a sick old world" their world was surprisingly mundane and comfortable.
I agree Becky Fisher was a compelling and disturbing character. But Like the filmmakers i found her hard to dislike. It seemed she really did care about those kids but her fanaticism and ignorance was so frustrating and saddening. To me the true villian was Ted Haggard. In contast to Fisher who was ultimately a disturbing true believer, everything about him oozed cynicism and arrogance. His patronising dismissal of levi was hard to watch. It is hardly surprising that he ended up being outed as a charlatan and a fraud.
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What kind of games do they play at Jesus camp?
Pin the tail on the Savior?
Bobbing for loaves and fishes?
Crucifiction?
What? lolz.,
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I finally saw this Jesus Camp in full a few weeks ago on DVD. One one level it disturbed me but on another I would say to compare it to a program down plays what programs are. It seems that while those kids were certainly being indoctrinated into a disturbingly fanatical faith, they were there because they wanted to be. It was not a from of incarceration as such or a long term place. Just a really crazy religious camp. It also seems that while the services that had kids crying etc were possibly less than healthy the camp was not a punishment so the kids spent most of the time just doing normal summer camp things that they enjoyed.
There are many similarities from a graduate's view.
1. After a year, year and a half of being at CEDU - you motherfucking wanted to stay and graduate. You thought that if you didn't graduate you were going to be a failure. We were those 'eager' kids fully participating in their raps, propheets and workshops.
2. Mind control, mind control, mind control.
- By Instilling fear
- By Inciting emotional group psychofests.
- By Working themselves into a lather over imaginary shit.
That fat bitch talks about "declaring War" ???? She couldn't take on one blind 80 lb jihadist.
That fat bitch is the definition of "mono-faceted".
Every fucking word out of her mouth is god this, the devil that, redemption my child. You want to better the world you fat bitch???? How about normal people telling other people to be considerate of one another? How is that not a good plan? Why do you have to make up crazy stories and fictious characters to get your point across?
That big fat blonde woman bitch gave me the douche chills. The same douche chills that Caroline and Carmen gave me at CEDU.
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I finally saw this Jesus Camp in full a few weeks ago on DVD. One one level it disturbed me but on another I would say to compare it to a program down plays what programs are. It seems that while those kids were certainly being indoctrinated into a disturbingly fanatical faith, they were there because they wanted to be. It was not a from of incarceration as such or a long term place. Just a really crazy religious camp. It also seems that while the services that had kids crying etc were possibly less than healthy the camp was not a punishment so the kids spent most of the time just doing normal summer camp things that they enjoyed.
There are many similarities from a graduate's view.
1. After a year, year and a half of being at CEDU - you motherfucking wanted to stay and graduate. You thought that if you didn't graduate you were going to be a failure. We were those 'eager' kids fully participating in their raps, propheets and workshops.
2. Mind control, mind control, mind control.
- By Instilling fear
- By Inciting emotional group psychofests.
- By Working themselves into a lather over imaginary shit.
That fat bitch talks about "declaring War" ???? She couldn't take on one blind 80 lb jihadist.
That fat bitch is the definition of "mono-faceted".
Every fucking word out of her mouth is god this, the devil that, redemption my child. You want to better the world you fat bitch???? How about normal people telling other people to be considerate of one another? How is that not a good plan? Why do you have to make up crazy stories and fictious characters to get your point across?
That big fat blonde bitch gave me the douche chills. The same douche chills that Caroline and Carmen gave me at CEDU.
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While i freely admit I am in this discussion without having been in a program, I think that there is a danger in writing off any faith system that is unpopular or strange as being just like a program. Fishers ideas are alarming, the paramilitary shit was bizarre and the crazy masses went to far. But there is a difference between indoctrination and brainwashing. i would say that my own parents liked the idea of religious indoctrination ( not into anything that extreme) and at the end of the day I rejected it. So did at least half of my classmates. This was always a bonafide choice.
In programs (at least from what I have been told) there are no real choices, the kids do not seem happy, even those claiming some benefit. There are few leisure activities or any freedoms. The primary philosophy is cruelty. I dont think fisher was about a philosophy of cruelty to these kids. When they were not at nutbar mass they seemed to have relatively normal childhoods. if anything that was what was alarming. These people were normal suburbanites with some of the most absurd ideas i have ever heard. But if this is child abuse and should be banned then where do you draw the line? Because in any democracy there needs to be freedom of ideas and faith no matter how mad.
The idea of putting this woman out of business or vandalizing the camp disturbs me
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What kind of games do they play at Jesus camp?
Pin the tail on the Savior?
Spear... pin the spear on the savior. Then he does some freaky shit like bleed water or something.
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While i freely admit I am in this discussion without having been in a program, I think that there is a danger in writing off any faith system that is unpopular or strange as being just like a program. Fishers ideas are alarming, the paramilitary shit was bizarre and the crazy masses went to far. But there is a difference between indoctrination and brainwashing. i would say that my own parents liked the idea of religious indoctrination ( not into anything that extreme) and at the end of the day I rejected it. So did at least half of my classmates. This was always a bonafide choice.
In programs (at least from what I have been told) there are no real choices, the kids do not seem happy, even those claiming some benefit. There are few leisure activities or any freedoms. The primary philosophy is cruelty. I dont think fisher was about a philosophy of cruelty to these kids. When they were not at nutbar mass they seemed to have relatively normal childhoods. if anything that was what was alarming. These people were normal suburbanites with some of the most absurd ideas i have ever heard. But if this is child abuse and should be banned then where do you draw the line? Because in any democracy there needs to be freedom of ideas and faith no matter how mad.
The idea of putting this woman out of business or vandalizing the camp disturbs me
I think you are missing several important paralells. First, these camps are seldom "voluntary" as you say but rather kids are put in there by their parents,'for their own good'. It is indoctrination, pure and simple. Second, they are forced into certain behaviors that embarrass them and make them ripe for the indoctrination. In the program, we call this 'motivating'. And third, they are forced to accept a certain set of beliefs or be ostracized by the group. religion by Peer pressure, as it were.
There are more similarities. this is the short list, and it is interesting that you give religious 'faith' a free pass when it hasn't earned it. Where else in society do we do this?
Your perception of how program kids appear isn't accurate. program kids, by all outward appearances, once they get off of the early phases appear happy. If they don't, they will answer as to why. They also do activities and socialize with other kids who have accepted the program indoctrination. How is this different? The philosophy isn't cruelty, as you say, but rather "saving" the kids from the culture of drugs which is seen as evil by modifying their belief system. Do I have to point out this is the same goal as the religious camps but around a different philosophy?
Finally, brainwashing is indocrination of an idea or set of ideals using specific techniques designed to break people down and rebuild their beliefs around the group leaders' set of goals for the group. While the techniques used in these relgious camps aren't as harsh as the rehabs most of us were forced into in either duration or intensity, they don't have to be because they are used on very very young children and the children for the most part are already exposed to this ideas at home and at church. These religious summer camps definately use brainwashing techniques in various degrees of harshness. Just because Jesus or Mohammed is supposedly floating around in some etheral background doesn't legitimize this travesty.
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While i freely admit I am in this discussion without having been in a program, I think that there is a danger in writing off any faith system that is unpopular or strange as being just like a program. Fishers ideas are alarming, the paramilitary shit was bizarre and the crazy masses went to far. But there is a difference between indoctrination and brainwashing. i would say that my own parents liked the idea of religious indoctrination ( not into anything that extreme) and at the end of the day I rejected it. So did at least half of my classmates. This was always a bonafide choice.
In programs (at least from what I have been told) there are no real choices, the kids do not seem happy, even those claiming some benefit. There are few leisure activities or any freedoms. The primary philosophy is cruelty. I dont think fisher was about a philosophy of cruelty to these kids. When they were not at nutbar mass they seemed to have relatively normal childhoods. if anything that was what was alarming. These people were normal suburbanites with some of the most absurd ideas i have ever heard. But if this is child abuse and should be banned then where do you draw the line? Because in any democracy there needs to be freedom of ideas and faith no matter how mad.
The idea of putting this woman out of business or vandalizing the camp disturbs me
I think you are missing several important paralells. First, these camps are seldom "voluntary" as you say but rather kids are put in there by their parents,'for their own good'. It is indoctrination, pure and simple. Second, they are forced into certain behaviors that embarrass them and make them ripe for the indoctrination. In the program, we call this 'motivating'. And third, they are forced to accept a certain set of beliefs or be ostracized by the group. religion by Peer pressure, as it were.
There are more similarities. this is the short list, and it is interesting that you give religious 'faith' a free pass when it hasn't earned it. Where else in society do we do this?
Your perception of how program kids appear isn't accurate. program kids, by all outward appearances, once they get off of the early phases appear happy. If they don't, they will answer as to why. They also do activities and socialize with other kids who have accepted the program indoctrination. How is this different? The philosophy isn't cruelty, as you say, but rather "saving" the kids from the culture of drugs which is seen as evil by modifying their belief system. Do I have to point out this is the same goal as the religious camps but around a different philosophy?
Finally, brainwashing is indocrination of an idea or set of ideals using specific techniques designed to break people down and rebuild their beliefs around the group leaders' set of goals for the group. While the techniques used in these relgious camps aren't as harsh as the rehabs most of us were forced into in either duration or intensity, they don't have to be because they are used on very very young children and the children for the most part are already exposed to this ideas at home and at church. These religious summer camps definately use brainwashing techniques in various degrees of harshness. Just because Jesus or Mohammed is supposedly floating around in some etheral background doesn't legitimize this travesty.
I've read about "jesus camp" extensively, so I'm somewhat informed, but I haven'T seen the movie, so my conception of the place might be a bit off.Still, From what i see ,there is NO WAY this place can be equated with a program. Sure, there are similaritiesm but, honestly, there are simialrities in everything.
"jesus camp" is not a "program" because it is not an environment of totalism. There are not clinicial brainwashing modalities effected. It's unhealthy and weird to be sure ,though
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GregFL
Thank you for providing the details. I didn't have the energy.
Everyone else.............
I'm at a loss for words. I said 'similarities'. Common denomination.
I didn't say apples and apples.
Think for yourself.
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"jesus camp" is not a "program" because it is not an environment of totalism. There are not clinicial brainwashing modalities effected. It's unhealthy and weird to be sure ,though"
I wanted to start 2008 off positively........however your mindless banter is the mother of my crazy talk invention.....
1. jesus camp............right out of the gate. bonafide program. you sign up - you go there - you mentally prep to assasinate muslims, jews and non-believing american heathens. HOW is that not programing?
2. there are not modalities effected?????????????????
Thanks Dr. Himmel Thanks for the doctor speak. If you have to ask you'll never know. Fuck off into the year 2043.
I don't like starting fights.
I despise internet fights most of all.
But for fuck's sake ......focus on the unhealthy and the weird. Stare at it for hours on end. Ask yourself if 2+2 still equals 4. Then try to provide commentary.
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"jesus camp" is not a "program" because it is not an environment of totalism. There are not clinicial brainwashing modalities effected. It's unhealthy and weird to be sure ,though"
I wanted to start 2008 off positively........however your mindless banter is the mother of my crazy talk invention.....
1. jesus camp............right out of the gate. bonafide program. you sign up - you go there - you mentally prep to assasinate muslims, jews and non-believing american heathens. HOW is that not programing?
2. there are not modalities effected?????????????????
Thanks Dr. Himmel Thanks for the doctor speak. If you have to ask you'll never know. Fuck off into the year 204.
Wow, you woke up on the wrong side of 2008. I can't think what offended you so much in my harmless, copiously grammatically flawed little post. Do you think I'm proselytizing for the great "I am"?
When I say no program or “clinical brainwashing modalities effectedâ€
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yes - i did wake up on the wrong side of the new year. but then I rolled over and saw pam anderson and carmen elektra making out aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
i was drunk -- my bad - my apologies
bring it in
let's hug it out.
2008 - no bubbles no troubles
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I think you are missing several important paralells. First, these camps are seldom "voluntary" as you say but rather kids are put in there by their parents,'for their own good'. It is indoctrination, pure and simple. Second, they are forced into certain behaviors that embarrass them and make them ripe for the indoctrination. In the program, we call this 'motivating'. And third, they are forced to accept a certain set of beliefs or be ostracized by the group. religion by Peer pressure, as it were.
There are more similarities. this is the short list, and it is interesting that you give religious 'faith' a free pass when it hasn't earned it. Where else in society do we do this?
Your perception of how program kids appear isn't accurate. program kids, by all outward appearances, once they get off of the early phases appear happy. If they don't, they will answer as to why. They also do activities and socialize with other kids who have accepted the program indoctrination. How is this different? The philosophy isn't cruelty, as you say, but rather "saving" the kids from the culture of drugs which is seen as evil by modifying their belief system. Do I have to point out this is the same goal as the religious camps but around a different philosophy?
Finally, brainwashing is indocrination of an idea or set of ideals using specific techniques designed to break people down and rebuild their beliefs around the group leaders' set of goals for the group. While the techniques used in these relgious camps aren't as harsh as the rehabs most of us were forced into in either duration or intensity, they don't have to be because they are used on very very young children and the children for the most part are already exposed to this ideas at home and at church. These religious summer camps definately use brainwashing techniques in various degrees of harshness. Just because Jesus or Mohammed is supposedly floating around in some etheral background doesn't legitimize this travesty.[/quote]
I am sorry Greg, for phrasing that somewhat inappropriately. I hope it did not cause offence. I was aware of the forced "happiness" in program kids that is a scam. I also know of many who have spoken to me who have argued something along the lines of it was hideous but for my own good. I am sure you have heard this as well a few times. This idea that forced pain is good has always saddened and horrified me. I also remember the quite powerful scene in the film where that little blonde kid expressed doubt and the other kids looked highly uncomfortable. I agree that this is indoctrination. But I would still stop by calling it indoctrination and not brainwashing. There did seem to be a few older kids up the back at Jesus Camp who did not buy into the total hysteria. They did not appear to be forced to change their minds in the same way that straight kids were apparently forced to motivate.
While I came to it seems a different conclusion about Jesus camp that you and ddf I did come away wondering which children would rebel as teens and whether they may end up in a program. Because i certainly agree that parents that fanatically rigid in their thinking are not gonna allow much wriggle room when it comes to teenage folly.
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i'm drunk
are
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i'm drunk
are
hee-hee
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Well happy new yr ddf. ::birthday:: ::cheers::
I am interested- Did anyone attend a religiously based summer camp as a kid? What was it like? Was it somewhat cultic?
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oz
HHNY
When I come over to surf bell's I expect a good old fashion aussie
bbq.
you're welcome any day of the week.
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oz
HHNY
When I come over to surf bell's I expect a good old fashion aussie
bbq.
.
Just dont ask me to throw a shrimp on it :wink: (we call them prawns) Do you surf?
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oz
HHNY
When I come over to surf bell's I expect a good old fashion aussie
bbq.
.
Just dont ask me to throw a shrimp on it :wink: (we call them prawns) Do you surf?
I don't, but I do indeed have a rashie.
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I used to ride a skateboarder.
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I hit a skateboarder with my truck once.
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On of the last skateboard rides I ever took was down a big hill in Baltimore where there was lots of traffic. I got going a little too fast and slipped off and the board slid under a car and was broken in half. Aside from one set of wheels being intact, it was pretty well fucked. I wasn't into skating pools or half-pipes or anything like that (like some of my friends were); it was just a way for me to get around town a little faster.
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che gookin
please tell me the skater desrved it and you didn't aim for him for mindless entertainment.
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I used to ride a skateboarder.
:rofl:
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I used to ride a skateboarder.
:rofl:
Just for the record, I don't think it was me. :)
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che gookin
please tell me the skater desrved it and you didn't aim for him for mindless entertainment.
I wasn't really aiming persay. I did tally up the epic win points of him bouncing over my hood though.
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HAYDEN, Idaho (AP) -- A man who believed he bore the biblical "mark of the beast" used a circular saw to cut off one hand, then he cooked it in the microwave and called 911, authorities said.
The man, in his mid-20s, was calm when Kootenai County sheriff's deputies arrived Saturday. He was in protective custody in the mental health unit of Kootenai Medical Center.
"It had been somewhat cooked by the time the deputy arrived," sheriff's Capt. Ben Wolfinger said. "He put a tourniquet on his arm before, so he didn't bleed to death. That kind of mental illness is just sad."
It was not immediately clear whether the man has a history of mental illness. Hospital spokeswoman Lisa Johnson would not say whether an attempt was made to reattach the hand, citing patient confidentiality.
The Book of Revelation in the New Testament contains a passage in which an angel is quoted as saying: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink the wine of God's fury."
The book of Matthew also contains the passage: "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for you whole body to go into hell."
Wolfinger said he didn't know which hand was amputated
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/09/hand.c ... pstoryview (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/09/hand.cut.off.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview)
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These personalities are computer generated spam bots designed to guerilla market their wares.
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avec monkey lettuce handlebars.
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I once knew a girl with schitzophrenia. She mentioned that the worst thing you can have with an illness like that is a religious upbringing. Though she was never sent to nutbar camp or taught any fire and brimestone shit her parents sent her to a loosely religious private school & attended xmas services etc. So when the voices started she assumed it was god or satan because she could not think of any other more logical explaination at the time. I wonder if this poor fellow was mentally ill in some way.
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I don't think it was me.
You don't think... but are you certain?
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I don't think it was me.
You don't think... but are you certain?
I think so.