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Messages - wayeast

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16
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Those Queasy Emo Goodbye Raps
« on: June 24, 2003, 08:57:00 PM »
I'd never heard the song before, but it wasn't Neil Young. You had the words right; it was the ditty about stars shining, ivy twining, and the sky being blue.

It ended with:

/~ because god made you, that's why I love you ~/

heeeewwwwboy, here comes lunch.

17
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Those Queasy Emo Goodbye Raps
« on: June 24, 2003, 06:19:00 PM »
When Mrs. Byrd left Atlanta (for Alexandria, VA?), they made us learn the song "Tell Me Why," which was apparently one of her favorites.  I don't remember anyone crying but her, though.

As I recall, they had us sing it to her in open group with the parents there, which was probably really *touching* from the parents' perspective.

Golly, what a moment.  "Love ya, Mrs. Byrd!" ::puke::

18
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Any St Pete and Atlanta survivors?
« on: June 06, 2003, 04:50:00 PM »
George,

I went to Straight in Sept. 82. Good to see more Atlanta people.

You probably wouldn't remember me, because I never got off first phase.  Were you around when Travis Crow and some of the others caught hell over doing drugs?  Just curious, since you were seven-stepped, I thought you might know.

Regards,
Charlie

19
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / A Shout-out from Atlanta
« on: May 14, 2003, 10:30:00 PM »
About four years after I left Straight, I went back to Austell Road.  This would have been around 1986, and I actually went INTO the building. I'm laughing sitting here writing this, because I'm surprised I didn't get arrested or have a restraining order put on me or something. I really don't know why I wasn't escorted off the premises.
  I took a friend with me, and I was really just going to drive by, but when we got there, I decided to pull into the parking lot.  The next thing I knew, I was sticking my head in the door, asking some lame question about whether this was a doctor's office.  There was a Mom at the desk, and she said no, that it was a drug rehab. She never picked up the phone to call anyone, and when I asked, she said I was welcome to take some of the brochures that were there.  I have no idea whether the woman was clueless, or whether she just didn't see me as much of a threat.  Or maybe they were watching me carefully as I got back in my car.
  I was weirdly energized when I got back in the car, even though there was part of me that was afraid they were going to come running out and drag me back in the door.  
  Right now, that scene seems more surreal than anything that happened while I was *in* the program.

20
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Marnie, Jennie & Kenny Sykes
« on: May 11, 2003, 07:38:00 AM »
This string is probably cold now, but Mark (Short?) did my intake too.  Along with a guy named (Darrin?) and Mike Bush. Since then, I've wondered if Mike was one of THE Bush clan, but it seems unlikely.  He was too human.

Then Tim Mantooth came and did my strip search. What a day. The only thing I'm glad about from that day was that I told Dennis Buttimer to F**k off. And that I think I made Tim uncomfortable because I mentioned a common friend.

I remember when Mark came back into group, and I remember them giving him hell for going back to his "druggie girlfriend(s)."  The girls seemed to tease him quite a bit about that. I remember wondering why everybody gave him a hard time about that.  It wasn't like everybody wouldn't have done the same thing.

Anybody remember a "Darrin" from the ATL group?

Charlie

21
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / I have a few questions
« on: May 01, 2003, 07:33:00 PM »
"The assumption that Christians lack the capacity for (or at least don't practice) critical thinking in regards to Church doctrine, understandings of God, the Scriptures, society, and our fellow human beings is patently false."  --MCadet

I disagree: the assumption may be correct, depending on your definition of Christian "faith."  For many people, faith means choosing to believe certain things, despite any evidence to the contrary. This kind of believer is saying that their perceived relationship with God trumps critical thinking.  They would say "God said it, I believe it, that settles it."  They see the rest of us in one of two ways.  We might be obstacles to their faith.  Or we might be potential converts who have been deceived by the world and who are sitting around waiting for some believer to set us free by "sharing his faith."

On the other hand, there are others who define faith as trusting God Himself (or Herself) to see them through the hard times.  They focus on their perceived relationship with God, and while they still hold onto dogma, their reality isn't destroyed if the facts prove them wrong every now and then. They are capable of believing the rest of us are simply wrong, without necessarily believing we must be either spiritually deceived or willfully evil.

I think it would be a catastrophic mistake to assume that all Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, or atheists are either the first kind of believer or the second.  There's always a mix, as tempting as it sometimes is to categorize people.

Straight, by the way, required us all to be the first kind of believer.  No doubting, no dissension, no freedom of thought.  The god in question was Straight, rather than Jesus, but the principles still apply.

22
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / ACRONYM SOUP, or how to run everyone off...
« on: April 23, 2003, 09:33:00 PM »
<<"You know, for people who don't believe in God, you sure are spending a lot of time talking about Him!! So here's a suggestion:...But, instead of taking my opinion, pick up a Bible and form your own.
"

I've heard this pitch before, and it would be funny if so many people didn't fall for it. I haven't seen anyone here criticize god in any way: it's evangelicals that are taking the heat. The only thing is, the evangelicals can't believe it's really about them. So they come up with this theory that everybody who has a problem with certain Christians is resisting god's will.

This is the "heads I win, tails you lose" approach. If you believe as they do, it's a sign of god's majesty, because you've seen the light. If you don't believe as they do, then god must be real, because otherwise you wouldn't be resisting his will by not becoming a Christian.

I do agree with one thing, though. Read the Bible. Read it all the way through, not just the most-quoted parts. Study it. Compare verses. If you spend enough time with it, you'll begin to see it for what it really is. A fascinating historical document that is self-contradictory at many levels. If more evangelical Christians read the Bible, there would be fewer evangelical Christians.

This is not an endorsement of the post talking about bread of life and not being hungry, by the way. The bread of life is a metaphor not intended to be taken literally.

23
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / ACRONYM SOUP, or how to run everyone off...
« on: April 22, 2003, 07:33:00 PM »
Richard,

I liked your last two posts. I'll try to be there with a fire extinguisher when John Ashcroft and Tom Delay have you burned at the stake for heresy.

I have one disagreement. I don't equate free thinking with arrogance.  Arrogance is, by definition, not caring about the truth.  That doesn't really fit free thinkers, who are less afraid to question their own assumptions about life than most others are.  

The religious right acts as if atheists, agnostics, and free-thinkers were casting off all rules and restrictions, as if this was a great rebellion.  In my experience, free thinkers are the ones who really put thought into what is the right thing to do and the right way to relate to the rest of the human race.  That's why free thinkers protect the rights of people like P.A. to preach at us so obnoxiously.

It it arrogant to recognize that you are just one life on one planet in one galaxy at the edge of the universe? Or is it maybe arrogant to believe that anyone who argues with you is just intimidated by your righteousness, because the holy spirit is on you?

24
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Deep Thoughts.............................
« on: April 13, 2003, 12:04:00 PM »
I think of all my uncles, my favorite was Uncle Caveman.  We called him Uncle Caveman because he lived in a cave, and because sometimes he'd eat one of us.  Later on, we found out he was actually a bear.

25
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / ACRONYM SOUP, or how to run everyone off...
« on: April 13, 2003, 11:51:00 AM »
I skim these pages rather than reading every post, so I'm not clear on all of the inter-relationships.  Am I correct in understanding that Powerful Attitude was a Straightling at one time?

Having taken that route myself, I'm curious to know whether he feels any cognitive dissonance over his point of view: that anyone who disagrees with him disagrees with God.  P.A. isn't able to see the arrogance of this, because he's let himself be convinced that he's being loyal to a higher power. He might humbly state that he knows very little in the grand scheme of things, but he knows Jesus, and that's all he needs to know.  

It's disturbing that he can't see the similarity between his own attitude and that of the Straight founders, but is it really surprising?  When we're under stress, we go to the things with which we are familiar. An abused child will want to stay with the abusive parent because they are familiar.  Maybe this is why so many of us leave one cult for another.  

I personally think P.A. *has* to keep sharing his faith, because if he ever stops, he'll see that it is based on fear and whipped air. Only by converting others can he comfort himself that he's got the Truth.

26
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / ACRONYM SOUP, or how to run everyone off...
« on: April 09, 2003, 12:21:00 PM »
Bill,

I remember that time in Atlanta. GEEZ, the guy just about made me jump out of my skin.  I had no idea who the man was, or even that he was there, and the next thing I knew this RED-faced bastard was yelling from the back of the room, "that's BULLS**T!" and starting a rant.  I have never seen someone's face so red. Even though I was cooperating, I found that I wanted to charge the guy and pummel him.  

I've thought since then that he just really got off on being angry.  There was no other explanation for his behavior.

27
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« on: October 29, 2002, 03:02:00 PM »
I guess what I don't understand is that cram737 said he clearly remembered "Dave" Buttimer leaving.  How could you remember it clearly, but not remember that the guy's name was Dennis? Maybe this was a typo and you were thinking of Dave Tilley.  Is that it?

28
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / To All Straight Survivors
« on: October 26, 2002, 04:22:00 PM »
While I think the point of this thread is well-taken, I think the rape analogy falls short, and here's why.  Rapists don't keep at their victims until the victims actually believe the rapist is right to attack them. I don't know about the rest of you, but my decision to conform wasn't just because I had few choices; I pretty quickly came to actually believe in Straight.  I hate that fact, but it's true, and I'm not going to beat myself up about this late in the game.

While I admire the handful of people who rebelled more or less consistently, I can't and won't judge those who conformed consistently either. Even those teenagers who ended up in staff.  (The paid adults at the program can go to hell.)

It's easy to look back a decade or two after the fact and say "man, I can't believe I went along with that," but to do so forgets that we were inexperienced teenagers under constant attack. Most adults in their thirties and forties wouldn't know how to respond to that kind of nightmare, and they would end up conforming too. That's one way cults are formed.

And we were handicapped in one other important way.  Most of us had screwed up somehow before going to Straight, and Straight threw that in our faces as proof that we shouldn't trust our own judgment.  We came into the program hobbled with self-doubt, and they used it for all it was worth.

To the man whose wife judges him for not rebelling at Straight, I feel bad for you, because this woman is clueless.  Anyone who thinks they'd have responded differently as an unprepared teenager coming under that kind of pressure is just ignorant.  Only a tiny handful consistently rebelled at Straight;even those who are proudest of their rebellion (and with good reason) probably conformed the majority of the time.
The important thing in my mind is that none of us would do it the same way again. It would be interesting to know how many of us former conformists are now the ones who ask tough questions at meetings where everyone else is afraid to speak up.  I actually get kind of a creepy feeling when I'm at a meeting where everybody agrees with each other.

29
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« on: October 26, 2002, 03:28:00 PM »
Enough made the comment: "I have a clear memory of the day when Dave Buttermer left the staff. It was extremely emotional for the group, people were crying profusely- there was a special rap that night and MR. B led it. He told us lots of bullshit, and he was gone. This occured sometime in 1984 to the best of my memory."

Now I'm confused. And I mean nothing accusatory when I say this, but was the man's name not "Dennis Buttimer" not Dave?  (I may be butchering the last name, but his first name was Dennis.  Are we talking about the same person? Dark-haired arrogant prick with a stupid looking moustache?

30
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / the Scoop slams JEB on SAFE
« on: September 26, 2002, 05:18:00 PM »
http://www.msnbc.com/news/813022.asp

See the above for MSNBC's gossip section, in which the writer asks why Noelle Bush wasn't set to JEB's favorite rehab: SAFE.

Includes comment from cult expert Rick Ross.

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