Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Troubled Teen Industry.com - Program Website Division => Topic started by: psy on November 26, 2008, 12:36:26 PM

Title: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 12:36:26 PM
Well.  A few days ago I was invited to antiWWASP to take place in a discussion on how to end the industry.  The general consensus was that at the moment we, as a collective community of survivors were too divided.  In order to truly fight the industry we must work together.  A central organization, to not control, but to coordinate efforts, could exist to help us to organize ways to work together.  We came up with a name:  A.P.ALL standing for Anti Program ALLiance.

Here is a sketch of what I envision the organization looking like (Pam, an ex-wwasp parent is working on a prettier one at the moment).  Most of this is in the design phase so it's not final at all (pls peoples.  if I make a mistake do not kill me).  This is what I propose.

(http://http://www.fornits.com/psy/apallOrgChart.png)

At the top is the constitution (bad name, I know) which basically a mission statement and a set of rules saying: we're going to fight the industry, and by the way no referrals, ever.  Below that we have the members of congress (explained below), and below that there are two divisions (maybe more in the future, for example, for protesting)

Basically we're brainstorming starting an organization to mass produce anti-program websites (a-la Benchmark exposed). The idea I set forth on the right side of the chart is to have three teams, a research team (R), a writing team (W), and a tech team (T) that does the SEO for the website and makes sure it appears high on Google. Sort of an assembly line. Research team starts off the first phase digging up dirt, interviewing survivors, and presents that information to the writing team that assembles the website (we'll have a template to help this out). Finally, the SEO team polishes the website, analyzes keyword density, and does SEO on the website.

This project will be separate from either AntiWWASP or Fornits itself, governed by a panel of reps from most of the anti program organizations (FICA, TAUSA, CAFETY, ISAC, etc.. but not CAICA of course). We're calling this new organization "a.p.all" (anti program alliance). The purpose of this panel is to agree on which program to focus on next with the websites, to coordinate resources, make decisions or amend the constitution (2/3 majority) and revise the Constitution (unanimous decision.. probably only to go back on amendments if there ever are any). This will keep us to the strict focus of digging up dirt on programs and making websites unless, and only unless, there is a clear consensus to focus on another area (protesting, for example).

Above all the organization will be governed by a constitution dictating two things: purpose (making websites, or other purposes as amended) and rules (NO REFERRALS and a very strict definition of what constitutes a referral... something as strict as the referral free zone for both my peace of mind and to get ISAC on board). Organizations or members can, of course, leave at any time.

I will coordinate the website creation division while Kev will create and control the central website (will have things like social networking, protest coordination, etc...).  An ex-wwasp parent with connections (Pam) will handle fundraising and stuff as well as helping to manage the central team of the "congress" (manage, not control). I am in favor of this (and suggested her for the job) because of the woman's management experience.

So what do people think?
Title: Draft Mission Statement & Goal
Post by: Anonymous on November 26, 2008, 01:01:03 PM
Our goal…. to raise public and political awareness of the privatized teen help industry in order to expose the truth about the abuse and torture that takes place in this MUTI-BILLION dollar industry that is the largely unregulated Behavior Modification Industries located in the U.S. and abroad.
Desperate parents are seeking out these facilities in order to help their struggling teens; only to find out later that their child endured unimaginable cruelty at the hands of people that were supposed to help our teens.

Our Mission…to end the privatized and UNREGULATED physical, psychological and emotional abuse of minors and parents within the Behavior Modification industry.

I am opening this up for comments, suggestions, modifications, etc.  Please...this is a collective cause and all feedback is welcomed.  I just wanted to put something out there for people the think about.

Best Wishes,
~pam
Title: Re: Draft Mission Statement & Goal
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Our goal…. to raise public and political awareness of the MUTI-BILLION dollar "troubled teen" industry in order to expose the truth about the abuse, fraud, and torture that takes place.
Desperate parents are seeking out these facilities in order to help their struggling teens; only to find out later that their child endured unimaginable cruelty at the hands of people that were supposed to help our teens.

Our Mission…to end the physical, psychological and emotional abuse of minors and parents within the Troubled Teen / Behavior Modification / Emotional Growth Industry.

I would suggest changing it to the above, removing private as well as unregulated (there are bad regulated programs such as Peninsula Village, as well as bad public programs... just ask Martin Lee Anderson).

How do people feel about opposing forced treatment of any kind?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Anonymous on November 26, 2008, 01:36:19 PM
The use of the words..."Behavior Modification" and "Emotional Growth" industry are one in the same and will be used interchangeably

~pam
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on November 26, 2008, 01:56:38 PM
Quote from: "psy"
How do people feel about opposing forced treatment of any kind?

I am, of course, wholly of this mind myself... HOWEVER, I worry that if you focus too unduly on this particular issue, you will lose the audience of parents who are convinced their kid is seriously ill, or seriously in danger of succumbing to the evils of addiction, yada yada yada.

If it were up to me, I would focus more on the primary goal of EXPOSING the corruption and abuse going on in the belly of the beast.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
The use of the words..."Behavior Modification" and "Emotional Growth" industry are one in the same and will be used interchangeably

~pam

That's one of the most difficult and frustrating thing about this industry.  As soon as something gets a bad rap, they change the damn name, which leave me thinking: every once in a while we're going to probably have to go back through the websites and do a couple "search & replace" actions to make the old terms reflect current marketing.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "psy"
How do people feel about opposing forced treatment of any kind?

I am, of course, wholly of this mind myself... HOWEVER, I worry that if you focus too unduly on this particular issue, you will lose the audience of parents who are convinced their kid is seriously ill, or seriously in danger of succumbing to the evils of addiction, yada yada yada.

If it were up to me, I would focus more on the primary goal of EXPOSING the corruption and abuse going on in the belly of the beast.
I, too, am leaning in that direction since it's also a divisive issue.  Let's focus on working on and with what everybody can agree on (bolded above).  Similarly, we discussed on antiWWASP that it would probably be better for a central organization to stay out of any other divisive issues (such as whether regulation can work or is a good idea).  Where we don't agree totally, we can work individually.  The only thing we basically agreed on needed to be set in stone was the "no referrals" stance for a number of reasons (many of which are obvious).
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Antigen on November 26, 2008, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
The use of the words..."Behavior Modification" and "Emotional Growth" industry are one in the same and will be used interchangeably

~pam

That's one of the most difficult and frustrating thing about this industry.  As soon as something gets a bad rap, they change the damn name, which leave me thinking: every once in a while we're going to probably have to go back through the websites and do a couple "search & replace" actions to make the old terms reflect current marketing.

Either that or try and come up with terms that are more direct, therefore more all-encompassing, than the euphemisms the industry uses.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: wdtony on November 26, 2008, 04:00:38 PM
Many of these ideas are great. I like the breakdown and regimentation. I also understand that this would be a work in progress. It seems to me that the Behavior mod Industry is slippery intentionally, especially when you bring the brainwashing aspect into the mix. The bottom line though is that this would be a good idea for the purpose of educating the public and parents.

Can't referrals go on behind the scenes if someone in this coalition decides they think some programs are ok? I think it is important to be careful who is privy to certain bits of information which could result in another sue scheff.

Some of these anti-program orgs. have tried to work together as a collective in the past. Didn't work out too well. I hate to be pessimistic, but I am unsure if it will happen now. Is there any way to form something where anti-program orgs. don't have to work so closely together?

I am in the process of getting a new website off the ground but one won't be enough. I like the idea of having multiple pages addressing programs, in other words a website with each page containing info on a particular program. Like a summation with links to other info and a link to the main page. Easier to navigate and get quick info.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
The use of the words..."Behavior Modification" and "Emotional Growth" industry are one in the same and will be used interchangeably

~pam

That's one of the most difficult and frustrating thing about this industry.  As soon as something gets a bad rap, they change the damn name, which leave me thinking: every once in a while we're going to probably have to go back through the websites and do a couple "search & replace" actions to make the old terms reflect current marketing.

Either that or try and come up with terms that are more direct, therefore more all-encompassing, than the euphemisms the industry uses.
thought reform industry?  Now that is calling a spade a spade.  I like it. We can hyperlink it and explain the term on a separate page.

I like the general idea too.  We can try and use less of their language on the webpages (but this may present issues for SEO).
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: "wdtony"
Can't referrals go on behind the scenes if someone in this coalition decides they think some programs are ok? I think it is important to be careful who is privy to certain bits of information which could result in another sue scheff.

I think the best defense against that is a whole lotta "Patti Atwoods" (fake parents testing for integrity).
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 04:13:02 PM
Quote from: "wdtony"
Some of these anti-program orgs. have tried to work together as a collective in the past. Didn't work out too well. I hate to be pessimistic, but I am unsure if it will happen now. Is there any way to form something where anti-program orgs. don't have to work so closely together?

Well.  That's what we're trying to do.  Find limited situations or projects where where all the orgs can agree on and work together.  While it is unlikely that all the orgs would agree on all issues, there may be some areas where the consensus is unilateral (eg: digging up dirt on programs and tacking it up in public is always a good thing).

Quote
I am in the process of getting a new website off the ground but one won't be enough. I like the idea of having multiple pages addressing programs, in other words a website with each page containing info on a particular program. Like a summation with links to other info and a link to the main page. Easier to navigate and get quick info.

Yup.  basically a Benchmark Exposed or a Sue Scheff Truth for each and every program.  If Benchmark suffered enrollment decline from over 60 in 2006 to 13 in 2008, i'd say it's a good idea to expand that general idea to the whole industry.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: wdtony on November 26, 2008, 04:50:20 PM
Good ideas!, I'll write more when I get off of work, gotta make that green....

T
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Anonymous on November 26, 2008, 05:27:45 PM
I'm willing to give it a try.   :nods:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 26, 2008, 05:35:49 PM
you already know my stance:

1) Project first..
2) alliance later.

Won't do anything more than that at the moment.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on November 26, 2008, 05:37:47 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
The use of the words..."Behavior Modification" and "Emotional Growth" industry are one in the same and will be used interchangeably

~pam

That's one of the most difficult and frustrating thing about this industry.  As soon as something gets a bad rap, they change the damn name, which leave me thinking: every once in a while we're going to probably have to go back through the websites and do a couple "search & replace" actions to make the old terms reflect current marketing.

Either that or try and come up with terms that are more direct, therefore more all-encompassing, than the euphemisms the industry uses.
thought reform industry?  Now that is calling a spade a spade.  I like it. We can hyperlink it and explain the term on a separate page.

I like the general idea too.  We can try and use less of their language on the webpages (but this may present issues for SEO).

Hate to throw a hairbrush into the crapper, but I (strongly) disagree with this. Once you whitewash all of this language into something "universally descriptive," you effectively disconnect from and dilute program lingo to the point where you no longer have any street cred with the already partially washed, or even once-dipped. You are then preaching only to the completely naive.

Chances are that many, if not most, of the readership will be those who have had some exposure and are seeking more info. E.g., a parent who has been recommended a program by their kid's ill-guided or already-washed therapist, and they are trying to get a second or third opinion on the internet.

One of the reasons these hell-holes achieve such a profound cult following is that they create a "special" little world, with that oh-so-special knowledge, and this is all held together by that "special" erudite language that only those elite and hip enlightened souls who are "in the know" are familiar with. You want to rip that fantasy out on its ear and show exactly what that language means from a different perspective, namely from the perspective of those who have suffered through the double-speak. To do that effectively, you gotta be able to talk that lingo.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Anonymous on November 26, 2008, 05:42:40 PM
As far as verbage goes probably the "youth reform" industry or "youth re-education" industry might be descriptive.

I think it would be important to have a "publicity" division of the org.  If all this work is done but nobody knows about it, it's all for nothing.  However, letter writing campaigns, press releases, magazine and newspaper articles everywhere would make the idea of abusive residential treatment programs more well known.  

I also believe one good tactic is to try to create a stigma to attach to people who voluntarily enroll their children in programs. The bandwagon helped create the popularity of this industry, and the bandwagon can help derail it. The more information (fact-based solid facts) that gets out there, the more people will not be able to close their eyes and just pretend it isn't there.  We should probably hit as many modes of communication as we can....  (Just my .02)
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 26, 2008, 05:47:25 PM
I'm betting the debate on semantics goes at least 3 pages.

1) Project for websites first.
2) Semantically loaded top heavy org later.

Can we start making anti-program websites now please?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 06:08:26 PM
Quote from: "Kathy M (FICAN)"
I'm willing to give it a try.   :nods:
Cool cool!  great to have you onboard.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 06:31:59 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
One of the reasons these hell-holes achieve such a profound cult following is that they create a "special" little world, with that oh-so-special knowledge, and this is all held together by that "special" erudite language that only those elite and hip enlightened souls who are "in the know" are familiar with. You want to rip that fantasy out on its ear and show exactly what that language means from a different perspective, namely from the perspective of those who have suffered through the double-speak. To do that effectively, you gotta be able to talk that lingo.

I think I agree with you there.  Very good point.  Perhaps we can have a dictionary of sorts (click on a word, get a definition or a link to the relevant section of the site).

What i'd like to do now is get a template nailed down as a starting point for all the websites to save time.  That will make a 5 day job a 2 day job (if we all work together).

I'm thinking we can divide it into several sections:


This is the general outline I followed for my Benchmark website, however I am looking for ways to improve the effectiveness of the websites so please comment or suggest changes as you feel them appropriate.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Antigen on November 26, 2008, 06:39:51 PM
Quote from: "Kathy M (FICAN)"
I also believe one good tactic is to try to create a stigma to attach to people who voluntarily enroll their children in programs. The bandwagon helped create the popularity of this industry, and the bandwagon can help derail it. The more information (fact-based solid facts) that gets out there, the more people will not be able to close their eyes and just pretend it isn't there.

LOL, positive peer pressure?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Anonymous on November 26, 2008, 06:41:55 PM
Thanks for the invite,

Just want to say I think this is a great idea.  Our web knowledge is generally limited (just look at our website) so I leave it to you folks to do the web design and SEO.  Just let us know how we can be helpful.

Brian
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 06:50:10 PM
Quote from: "blombrowski08"
Thanks for the invite,

Just want to say I think this is a great idea.  Our web knowledge is generally limited (just look at our website) so I leave it to you folks to do the web design and SEO.  Just let us know how we can be helpful.

Brian
Kat is invited too (but I didn't have her email).  Right now i'm looking for:

*good researchers
*good writers

If you know anybody who fits the bill and who you can trust, please, by all means, give them the password and send them here.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: firstresponder on November 26, 2008, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
[
One of the reasons these hell-holes achieve such a profound cult following is that they create a "special" little world, with that oh-so-special knowledge, and this is all held together by that "special" erudite language that only those elite and hip enlightened souls who are "in the know" are familiar with. You want to rip that fantasy out on its ear and show exactly what that language means from a different perspective, namely from the perspective of those who have suffered through the double-speak. To do that effectively, you gotta be able to talk that lingo.

i wrote a paper on the lauton notes from ww2 prisoner study. i was able to connect how they brainwashed the POW's and how the behavioral modification schools or what ever you want to call them, us the same things to brain wash the students and parents. the similarity's were too close for comfort.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 10:13:37 PM
Quote from: "firstresponder"
Quote from: "Ursus"
[
One of the reasons these hell-holes achieve such a profound cult following is that they create a "special" little world, with that oh-so-special knowledge, and this is all held together by that "special" erudite language that only those elite and hip enlightened souls who are "in the know" are familiar with. You want to rip that fantasy out on its ear and show exactly what that language means from a different perspective, namely from the perspective of those who have suffered through the double-speak. To do that effectively, you gotta be able to talk that lingo.

i wrote a paper on the lauton notes from ww2 prisoner study. i was able to connect how they brainwashed the POW's and how the behavioral modification schools or what ever you want to call them, us the same things to brain wash the students and parents. the similarity's were too close for comfort.

If you found that interesting, you will probably enjoy this as well:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... ing19.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html)
(on brainwashing in communist china)
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: firstresponder on November 26, 2008, 11:31:52 PM
that is  what i used. it was original called laftons notes on brainwashing.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 26, 2008, 11:35:47 PM
Currently I am working on ironing out the look, feel, and organization of this site here (http://http://www.peninsulavillageexposed.com/).  I propose we make it the "test run" of this website production design to serve as a model and template for future websites.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Deprogrammed on November 26, 2008, 11:46:03 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
you already know my stance:

1) Project first..
2) alliance later.

Won't do anything more than that at the moment.

I second that motion!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: wdtony on November 27, 2008, 12:00:32 AM
First, Thank you for the invitation. I forgot to mention that earlier.

What can be done as a collective about the HR 6358 situation?

And, I like the idea of having a web-page for each program similar to what the Hephzibah Girls have put together. Similar to an anti-program page with those who want to put their story out there as a warning to others and to expose how the process of lies are explained by the specific program. Yes Psy, both of your pages are perfect examples of this too.

Would it be better to work as individuals with web-pages and just link to each other?

What will be expected from me to help form this? If you are generally just wanting to link up web-pages, that sounds great. I just don't want to inadvertantly help programs by conducting ineffective practices or sharing information with "unknowns". The "Brainwashing" and "Cult" aspects used within programs must be stressed regardless of our direction or affiliation.

Whether we like it or not, something like this has to happen eventually to be as effective as we need to be.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 27, 2008, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: "Deprogrammed"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
you already know my stance:

1) Project first..
2) alliance later.

Won't do anything more than that at the moment.

I second that motion!

 :notworthy:  :notworthy:

All hail the haters of bureaucracy!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 27, 2008, 12:15:10 AM
Quote from: "wdtony"
First, Thank you for the invitation. I forgot to mention that earlier.

What can be done as a collective about the HR 6358 situation?

As a collective, we've decided not to touch that as an issue since not everybody agrees on it (some think regulation can work).  The idea of a.p.all is to do things that everybody agrees on.

Quote
And, I like the idea of having a web-page for each program similar to what the Hephzibah Girls have put together. Similar to an anti-program page with those who want to put their story out there as a warning to others and to expose how the process of lies are explained by the specific program. Yes Psy, both of your pages are perfect examples of this too.

Would it be better to work as individuals with web-pages and just link to each other?

Sure, that could work, but working together could yield faster and higher quality results.

Quote
What will be expected from me to help form this?

Well.  I invited you because I feel you're a great writer.

Quote
If you are generally just wanting to link up web-pages, that sounds great. I just don't want to inadvertantly help programs by conducting ineffective practices or sharing information with "unknowns".

Well.  I'm not sure how much information sharing of private information there would be (i mean, everythign published on the website will be public).  I'm not sure I see your concern.

Quote
The "Brainwashing" and "Cult" aspects used within programs must be stressed regardless of our direction or affiliation.

I agree.  ISAC has an excellent article called "can a program be a cult".

Quote
Whether we like it or not, something like this has to happen eventually to be as effective as we need to be.

I agree.  It's a somewhat controversial proposal to use the word "cult", but ultimately that's the best way to understand the origin and practices of the industry (not to mention how it can sustain itself).
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 27, 2008, 12:18:40 AM
Quote from: "wdtony"
First, Thank you for the invitation. I forgot to mention that earlier.

What can be done as a collective about the HR 6358 situation?

Hope a piano falls on George Miller's head is my suggestion.


and again..

1) Anti-program website first
2) big gas bag org later.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 27, 2008, 12:32:41 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Quote from: "Deprogrammed"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
you already know my stance:

1) Project first..
2) alliance later.

Won't do anything more than that at the moment.

I second that motion!

 :notworthy:  :notworthy:

All hail the haters of bureaucracy!

Well.  If you guys are really itching to get to work, I got some for you here:

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26219 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26219)
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26220 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26220)
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26218 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26218)
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: wdtony on November 27, 2008, 12:41:08 AM
If you are looking for a good writer, Ursus writes well and seems very logical.

I am very interested in this, keep me posted.

T
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 27, 2008, 12:56:25 AM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Quote from: "Deprogrammed"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
you already know my stance:

1) Project first..
2) alliance later.

Won't do anything more than that at the moment.

I second that motion!

 :notworthy:  :notworthy:

All hail the haters of bureaucracy!

Well.  If you guys are really itching to get to work, I got some for you here:

http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26219 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26219)
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26218 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26218)

I'm talking with a certain someone who we both know about getting or using some certain documents for a certain website that finally is coming online nearly 6 months after a certain someone who will remain nameless (me) purchased the domain.

I'll get back to you once that certain someone gives me a decision. I think that certain someone might have some certain restraint logs available for a certain 60 plus restraints in one month.

Conversely, you can always mine ISAC and Heal for their information. Both have some pretty good blurbs up that seem worthy of reading for that certain program that shall likewise remain nameless(PV) at this time.

Still psy.. I'm serious about my desire not to see this get bloated up into some monstrously dumbass org. If it gets that far I'm founding www.Assholes-for-freedom.org (http://www.Assholes-for-freedom.org) (or something to that affect) and will bribe you know who(kev)  into giving me space on the portal to express my insincere admiration at the folly that will have been created.

1) seems to be being addressed.
2) All the org chat really should be left on the slow burner till we get some work done. I don't mean not discuss it, but I do mean focusing on the project first and letting an org grow out of those efforts.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 27, 2008, 05:45:10 AM
Sorry for being late... :D

I've been extremely busy crafting this beauty of a program destroying website.. It will be a pleasure to blend the works of all these organizations (and the to-be-written materials) into a seamlessly integrated expose portal. It won't happen overnight, but change will come from this project if we can believe in trusting each other enough to share information. Psy and I are working together (it hasn't been easy, we butted heads for 3 days before sharing our proposal with all of you) in an effort to realize what can be done collectively, rather than struggle independently to get our voices heard. I strongly encourage you to put aside any differences you might have in favor of seeing awareness of these issues on a much, much, larger scale. Psy, Pam, and myself know what we're doing, you are in capable hands, just trust that we're all in this for the same reasons (for the most part) and that the mistrust will be our biggest hurdle. That aside, this is a very logical plan when you think about it.. As stated before, this was basically inevitable. I don't even remember how it started now to be honest, but i'm glad it's happening, that much i do know.

 I do hope you'll join us on the new website's forum tomorrow when i give you all a sneak peak to get your mouths watering, and your fingers typing. I'll post here when i'm ready to preview it to all of you on a strictly password access basis. We don't want the enemy to have any warning of our intentions or drive a wedge between us somehow before lift off. I'm for Che's plan for the most part, and I think you'll all feel much better with a glimpse of my new "frankenstein".
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 27, 2008, 07:46:44 AM
Oh yes.. get ready for www.assholes-for-freedom.org (http://www.assholes-for-freedom.org)!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 27, 2008, 10:02:36 AM
So what do people feel should be the next program to cover after PV?  Suggestions?  I was leaning towards Midwest Academy.  I figure we go NATSAP > WWASP > STRAIGHT > OTHER and then back around to NATSAP.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 27, 2008, 10:10:12 AM
You know we have enough participation from antiwwasp that we should get them to put together something on Midwest with anything that the rest of us unwashed proles can contribute. I think with the amount of information we all have it could probably be done at the same time as PV.

I'll keep sniffing for fresh meat for 3 springs. There are older statements out there, but I know enough kids and ex-staff it seems a shame to waste their input.

so suggestion:

Team 1: PV
Team 2: Midwest of WWASP program of their choice

-Three Springs in development
- HLA in development(maybe)
-Psych hospital or Psych industry informational site.

and you just know we have to hit HLA.. someone bounce Deborah an email about this. At the very least she can link us to reams of data about HLA.

Also I want to get Iamartsy started on collating information for a site to shit on a psych hospital and I think you know why I want her to do that. We could get her paired with a couple others who know that patch of hell and turn them loose. Long term benefits we could make decent contacts in the psych abuse advocacy orgs.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 27, 2008, 10:21:28 AM
Well.  A few points.  One is that I partially suggested Midwest to be the next because I wanted to build cooperation with the anti-WWASP community.  Secondly, as soon as the research division passes it's work to the writing division, the research division then starts on a new project.  It's an assembly line stream of production.  There is no need for the research division to wait for the writing and tech teams before moving onto something else (I fully expect there will be enough people to rest and share the workload.  we can cut back the speed if needs be).  Since the Pv research is more or less done and it's writing time now, I recommend we start on Midwest more or less immediately if there are no objections.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 27, 2008, 10:26:21 AM
dude.. you do realize we both just repeated each other?

Get out of mind.

 :jawdrop:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 27, 2008, 10:36:08 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
dude.. you do realize we both just repeated each other?

Get out of mind.

 :jawdrop:

only because you edited your post after I wrote mine
 :jawdrop:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 27, 2008, 10:52:50 AM
but only because your promised me a night filled with fine champs and romance sweetie did I change my post.

so let's dig up the dirt on midwest eh?

unleash the hounds!

or in our case turn loose the bear.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Anonymous on November 27, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
I can't thank you all enough for all the truly GREAT ideas I am hearing.  United we will stand, but I am also on the:

1)project first - creating the APALL.org portal
2) alliance...hot bag of gas.org chart..shit..I think that was the term Che used...lol

bandwagon.  We already have someone working on the portal as we type/speak.  I expect it will be up soon and what a great thing it will be to have all the links accessible from one place....don't know why someone did not come up with this brilliant idea sooner!  However, the only way it will work is if we stick to things we agree on. We have some incredible people all willing to participate in what will hopefully become a momentum of culminating events in 2009.

My background is corporate consulting...I would advise my clients to begin any new venture, especially if it to be a "joint venture" slowly and narrowly focused.  The first order of business is getting the APALL.org portal/website up and running.  There are a lot of things that can be happening simultaneously by individuals and other orgs willing to donate time for research, writing content, technical expertise to assist with creating the new sites
for each school/program.  Maybe we should just lose the words "behavior modification".."emotional growth" out of the lexicon for discussion purposes and maybe we need to take them out of the mission statement...since they keep changing, we must remain unwavering in our mission to squash whatever they might be calling these program schools at any given time.  I like the name they have from Denmark...secretprisonsforteens.com...something like that.

OUR wording should probably be as consistent as possible - they are already running people...they KNOW we are gaining power...in number and in information.  The only good thing I heard was that enrollment at these program schools is dropping....THANK GOD!

I thank you all for your willingness to help!
~pam
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 27, 2008, 04:16:58 PM
i've got an error to fix in the antiwwasp forums today before i can get any help from the antiwwasp community about midwest... some crazy posting error. You can post threads fine, but cant reply to any threads.. its weird but im looking into it so i know whether to reinstall everything (many plugins involved), or just patch the holes. the survivors list is an extremely valuable resource also, considering you can search from the main page for terms like say... "midwest" and get a few results.. scanning the list manually will be most rewarding however.

the only person off hand i remember going to this particular school and wanting to speak about it is Lily - http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/studentarticles/34-wwasprelated/53-lilys-wwasp-article.html - but she only mentions her experience briefly in the article she submitted, she focused solely on her time in Casa.. The last sentence in the article is the only time she said anything about Midwest, I almost thought I was mistaken that she attended reading through it just now.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: firstresponder on November 28, 2008, 02:25:01 AM
so what do you want on midwest? what should i be looking for? i have done a lot of looking at the facility as well as any articles on it. at one point i contacted the DA and asked for legal papers to protest. he re directed me to the state and well i just let it go.

let me know where to start to dig guys.

oh and just for kev :agree:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 28, 2008, 04:47:02 AM
how about anything you can lay your hands on for midwest? Even if it isn't able to go on the website you never know if someone like Secret Prisons, Heal, or ISAC might find it of use.

Start a holding thread for it is my suggestion and get parking.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 28, 2008, 05:20:44 AM
lol first, glad to see you brought some of that antiwwasp spirit with ya... ;D

i'd like to know at this point in time who may be considering (bare with me che) this idea of the portal. Before anyone in this private forum gets to peek at the design (which was built upon a massively perfect template framework for the record), there will be a few simple rules. no sharing of the beta test account password. the whole domain will remain locked to the public until the main players give the go ahead, at the very least to use your information. when everyone feels like we have a fairly decent start and enough content to show the world what we're capable of.. the site will go live, and we can take baby steps towards our larger goals.

i basically just want to see where everyone stands now that you're all fat and happy from thanksgiving. figured i'd jump in here and try to catch you all in fairly decent moods to garner some much needed support... this portal can display amazing amounts of information in a very smooth and user friendly fashion. im not asking you to form the alliance yet, i want to know who at this point basically likes the progression we've made towards just operating a portal for now, and using all our information to forward our individual websites and organizations while starting to chip away at the "industry's" firm SEO foothold.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 28, 2008, 05:37:46 AM
wisdom?

 :notworthy:

Glad to see all the time I spent in Skype didn't go to waste.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: wdtony on November 28, 2008, 05:51:57 AM
If there is a firm SEO foothold, that does need to be chipped away, if possible. That would pose a big problem to any large scale anti-program website plans.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 28, 2008, 06:15:24 AM
well for example, the terms this project will have high keyword density for: "troubled teen" "teen programs" "out of control teen"... go visit google and try to find an "anti" program website in any of the first 20 results or so.. the proof is in the pudding.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 28, 2008, 06:40:14 AM
midwest-academy-exposed.com registered.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 28, 2008, 06:44:38 AM
cool, looks like we have our next target then, antiwwasp forums will be live tomorrow, i will bring my team into this from there.. first responder can act as a laison of sorts between us, and can coordinate projects for "our side". first, once i bring the forums up i'd like you to hit the member list and PM every midwest survivor asking for details and testimony. I'll scan the forums myself for juicy tidbits, and we'll meet back here with our results, hopefully psy will open the next "project" thread and we'll get it all posted there. (forms huddle) and "BREAK"...
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 28, 2008, 09:58:09 PM
waiting on 5 responses before i let the APALL forums go live (only forum inside the portal design, everything else will remain unpublished til im ready)...

 if you want a preview folks, all i need to hear is 5 people to say i can use their writing and/or contributions... just 5 volunteers and we open the forum to the public (registration required)
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on November 28, 2008, 10:14:02 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
wisdom?

 :notworthy:

Glad to see all the time I spent in Skype didn't go to waste.

So am I....so I am I....my comrade in arms... che
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on November 28, 2008, 10:30:33 PM
Thank you all for a very warm welcome here at fornits.  Everyone's cooperation and collaboration on this very important endeavor has been amazing.  We TRULY have what it takes to make the closure of these programs for real.  
Two weeks ago, no one would have thought putting this all together was possible.  Many were skeptical, some jaded, and strained relationships from events that happened in the past seemed as though a true alliance could not be formed...but look what happened.  People not only jumped on board, but graciously and selflessly donated their time and resources to seeing this alliance come to fruition...in less than a week!
Mind you...there we some really rough days this week, but the overall willingness of all these organization to "put their differences aside" and work together to produce a resources for desperate parents, medical professionals, and many others all in one place!  This site and portal will be an amazing resource and with the "kick ass tech team" we will have the highest SEO and blows these guys out of the water!

United we stand....divided, we accomplish nothing.  I have no doubt that the coming year will be exciting as all these websites that are linked through a UNITED  & UNIFIED ALLIANCE!

Oh...and just to piss off Che

1) project first
2) Alliance bullshit later

I see project 1 and 2 already happening as we speak.. ..what a beautiful Thanksgiving it has been...there is much to be thankful about...at least for me.

~pam :cheers:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on November 28, 2008, 10:34:27 PM
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
waiting on 5 responses before i let the APALL forums go live (only forum inside the portal design, everything else will remain unpublished til im ready)...

 if you want a preview folks, all i need to hear is 5 people to say i can use their writing and/or contributions... just 5 volunteers and we open the forum to the public (registration required)

You can use anything I have given you Kev...not that it has been much.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on November 28, 2008, 10:36:03 PM
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
...Before anyone in this private forum gets to peek at the design (which was built upon a massively perfect template framework for the record), there will be a few simple rules. no sharing of the beta test account password. the whole domain will remain locked to the public until the main players give the go ahead, at the very least to use your information. when everyone feels like we have a fairly decent start and enough content to show the world what we're capable of.. the site will go live, and we can take baby steps towards our larger goals.

Certainly there needs to be a critical mass of info and material on the site before going public, but I would also like to throw my 2¢ of emphasis on the LOOK of the site as being extremely important. You absolutely do NOT want to unleash it on the public 'till it looks cohesive and professional.

Looking forward to seeing it!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on November 28, 2008, 10:40:09 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
waiting on 5 responses before i let the APALL forums go live (only forum inside the portal design, everything else will remain unpublished til im ready)...

if you want a preview folks, all i need to hear is 5 people to say i can use their writing and/or contributions... just 5 volunteers and we open the forum to the public (registration required)

You can use anything I have given you Kev...not that it has been much.

I'd love to see it, but haven't contributed anything thus far... Does anyone need some editing done?

 ;D
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on November 28, 2008, 10:46:40 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Thank you all for a very warm welcome here at fornits...

I see project 1 and 2 already happening as we speak.. ..what a beautiful Thanksgiving it has been...there is much to be thankful about...at least for me.

~pam :cheers:

It's been our pleasure, well, mine at any rate, since I can't really speak for anyone else. And cheers to you and everyone else as well, while we're at it...  
:cheers:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 29, 2008, 12:48:49 AM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Certainly there needs to be a critical mass of info and material on the site before going public, but I would also like to throw my 2¢ of emphasis on the LOOK of the site as being extremely important. You absolutely do NOT want to unleash it on the public 'till it looks cohesive and professional. Looking forward to seeing it!

well... i would ask pam, psy, or aaron at this point what they think about the "cohesiveness" of what they've seen. :}

our forums are INTEGRATED INSIDE the design.. if you can imagine that...!

OH, and i'm going to count Ursus and Pam as 2/5 volunteers. Just a little bit of participation folks, please?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 29, 2008, 05:00:39 AM
kevin has the portal site well in hand. I'm pretty impressed with it.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 29, 2008, 05:03:35 AM
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Certainly there needs to be a critical mass of info and material on the site before going public, but I would also like to throw my 2¢ of emphasis on the LOOK of the site as being extremely important. You absolutely do NOT want to unleash it on the public 'till it looks cohesive and professional. Looking forward to seeing it!

well... i would ask pam, psy, or aaron at this point what they think about the "cohesiveness" of what they've seen. :}

our forums are INTEGRATED INSIDE the design.. if you can imagine that...!

OH, and i'm going to count Ursus and Pam as 2/5 volunteers. Just a little bit of participation folks, please?

um, like what? I'm already bitching about stuff on the apall forums and I'm not counted?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on November 29, 2008, 05:41:54 AM
Fine che, I'll count you and hurrikayne as on board as well... though she will probably also be utilized as an editor (if she so chooses she'd like the responsibility that is) as you recommended to me earlier today.

So that puts us at 4/5 volunteers, one more please, and i'll post a beta tester password to these forums, so you can all join us on the new board.. It's bare bones, just the forums inside the design, but with a few mouse clicks i can populate the forums with the design in under 2 minutes...
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on November 29, 2008, 08:03:15 AM
kewl.. I'm gonna go bitch more now.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: hurrikayne on November 29, 2008, 08:54:55 AM
Kev, looked like the bear might want to do some editing as well, and from the looks of it we'll be able to come up with enough for more than one...I can do some writing as well, if needed.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 29, 2008, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
Kev, looked like the bear might want to do some editing as well, and from the looks of it we'll be able to come up with enough for more than one...I can do some writing as well, if needed.
noooooooooooo.  I want the bear to help research Midwest!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Rusty Goat on November 29, 2008, 09:08:24 AM
I'll bid. Keep in mind time is somewhat limited on my end, just let me know how I can best utilize it.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: hurrikayne on November 29, 2008, 09:11:02 AM
Quote
noooooooooooo. I want the bear to help research Midwest!

Yessss, masssssster.  So sorry masssssster.  Heheheheheee.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on November 29, 2008, 10:48:17 AM
Hello Ursus....nice o meet everyone over here.    The new APALL.org site is amazing and Psy's designs for the individual school sites flow beautifully with Kev's design on the portal site...even though they worked independently...truly amazing, this synergy that is being created.  

~pam
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: iamartsy on November 30, 2008, 03:41:24 AM
So is it correct to say that this is more of an invite thing and the that some of us are excluded? I want to say clique but don't want to piss anyone off. You know where to find me.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on November 30, 2008, 06:22:22 AM
Quote from: "iamartsy"
So is it correct to say that this is more of an invite thing and the that some of us are excluded? I want to say clique but don't want to piss anyone off. You know where to find me.

Once the site goes "live" no one will be excluded unless you do something that goes against our Mission/Charter...like referring to a program.  Yes, certain people have been "invited" to participate as you say, but only in the creation phase of this new project.  Once A.P.ALL.org goes live, you will have access just as you do here on fornits and on antiwwasp.com.

Since we are still in the design phase...opening up feedback on the design of the portal/site would be counter productive at this point.  There is A LOT of negotiating going on behind the scenes and some individuals will retain absolute design control on their respective areas/sites.  This new site is a collaboration of many different organizations....to some it is a miracle that we have even made it this far in such a short time!

Please do not feel as though certain members are being excluded intentionally or as a personal affront.  We are breaking new ground here and don't want to "blow it" before we even get to the gate...so to speak!  

~pam
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 30, 2008, 06:28:15 AM
Quote from: "iamartsy"
So is it correct to say that this is more of an invite thing and the that some of us are excluded? I want to say clique but don't want to piss anyone off. You know where to find me.
Not quite.  We're just setting up a big project here and it's useful to do it without the guest chatter and trolling.  This was originally on another website but there was a technical problem so we moved here.  This is more or less temporary.

Well.  In other news, we have a lot of work to do, so if you want to help out, we're currently working on researching Midwest academy.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Rusty Goat on November 30, 2008, 11:55:44 AM
It was once said... "Please do not feel as though certain members are being excluded intentionally or as a personal affront. We are breaking new ground here and don't want to "blow it" before we even get to the gate...so to speak!"

Now that this forum is 100% public, what does this mean?    ???
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on November 30, 2008, 12:02:09 PM
Quote from: "Rusty Goat"
Now that this forum is 100% public, what does this mean?    ???

It's not public.  Only users in the "apall" group can accesss this forum (guests and regular registered users cannot).  I did this because act.da suggested that the password would be easy to guess.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Rusty Goat on November 30, 2008, 12:30:32 PM
ya had me fooled there for a minute,  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :roflmao:  where's the one for "Heart Attack"?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on December 04, 2008, 08:43:36 PM
Sorry folks but I am jumping ship. Thought this was going to be the answer, but I'm going to refocus because it's not moving fast enough. The portal was in a condition to be filled with content for about 3-5 days now. I don't really understand... Anyways, I'm not planning on doing much of anything with it now, it was a good idea, and I wish you the best of luck in your future projects.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: hurrikayne on December 04, 2008, 08:50:52 PM
Wow, I never even got to see the thing.  Never got a password or addy for it.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 04, 2008, 08:52:42 PM
He's transerred the domain to me.  This project isn't over by any means.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on December 04, 2008, 08:58:30 PM
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
Wow, I never even got to see the thing.  Never got a password or addy for it.

Same here. Methinks there may have been some communication mixups...
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on December 05, 2008, 12:02:22 AM
i was told several times not to open the site for testing until it was full... maybe that's what the problem was. now the site (redesigned by psy) is live... strange.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on December 05, 2008, 12:40:56 AM
Better to have it all under one roof anyway. No man can serve two masters. Psy was getting a little worn out keeping me and kevin happy at the same time. Now he can go back to being my little bitch.

GET TO WORK!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 05, 2008, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Better to have it all under one roof anyway. No man can serve two masters. Psy was getting a little worn out keeping me and kevin happy at the same time. Now he can go back to being my little bitch.

GET TO WORK!
Yes massa
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on December 05, 2008, 12:59:16 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
No man can serve two masters.

But a bear serves no masters.

Jam yer big ol' butt into that squat terlit and quit yer beefin'!!

 :seg:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on December 05, 2008, 01:24:18 AM
I'll tell you what a beer serves up nicely with. A side of onions and some greens. Now get your ass to work before I declare it open season.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on December 05, 2008, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
I'll tell you what a beer serves up nicely with. A side of onions and some greens. Now get your ass to work before I declare it open season.

Beer goes quite nicely with a whole lotta lunchins'... and makes ya need that squat terlit all the more!

 :D
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 06, 2008, 11:40:26 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Currently I am working on ironing out the look, feel, and organization of this site here (http://http://www.peninsulavillageexposed.com/).  I propose we make it the "test run" of this website production design to serve as a model and template for future websites.

I like this, I'm beginning to see how this is all coming together... great work Psy and everyone else working on this! :tup:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 06, 2008, 11:55:15 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
You know we have enough participation from antiwwasp that we should get them to put together something on Midwest with anything that the rest of us unwashed proles can contribute. I think with the amount of information we all have it could probably be done at the same time as PV.

I'll keep sniffing for fresh meat for 3 springs. There are older statements out there, but I know enough kids and ex-staff it seems a shame to waste their input.

so suggestion:

Team 1: PV
Team 2: Midwest of WWASP program of their choice

-Three Springs in development
- HLA in development(maybe)
-Psych hospital or Psych industry informational site.

and you just know we have to hit HLA.. someone bounce Deborah an email about this. At the very least she can link us to reams of data about HLA.

Also I want to get Iamartsy started on collating information for a site to shit on a psych hospital and I think you know why I want her to do that. We could get her paired with a couple others who know that patch of hell and turn them loose. Long term benefits we could make decent contacts in the psych abuse advocacy orgs.

 :timeout: Woah, tread very carefully when looking to "make decent contacts in the psych abuse advocacy orgs"  Many are wolves in sheeps clothing...
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 07, 2008, 12:44:58 AM
Good advice, Kathy, especially with Scientology fronts like CCHR and countless others out there.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on December 07, 2008, 06:44:11 AM
:timeout:


Making decent contacts does not mean selling your vagina to the devil for a half of glass of beer and a pretzel.

I'm concerned about two things:

1) The initial project to make anti-program websites seems to be stalled.
2) Way to much attention is being paid to the apall.org.. which seems nice on the surface, but of secondary importance to the program specific websites for which this particular project was intended.

If the project to design websites to expose programs is on hold or dead let me know. I'll go find something else to do with my time.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 07, 2008, 11:09:20 AM
ok che, and everyone who keeps complaining that the web site part of the project is stalled...... Get organized and get specific, and make a list of what you want and from whom.  Personally, I come here just to see what's going on and after a few visits, I get the idea of what you guys are doing, but I have no idea EXACTLY what you want from me.  I have a library of info., but it's so much I wouldn't know where to begin in getting stuff to you..... do you want me building a site? posting info? just waiting til further notice??? I can't read your minds....  :beat:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on December 07, 2008, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: "Kathy"
ok che, and everyone who keeps complaining that the web site part of the project is stalled...... Get organized and get specific, and make a list of what you want and from whom.  Personally, I come here just to see what's going on and after a few visits, I get the idea of what you guys are doing, but I have no idea EXACTLY what you want from me.  I have a library of info., but it's so much I wouldn't know where to begin in getting stuff to you..... do you want me building a site? posting info? just waiting til further notice??? I can't read your minds....  :beat:

 

Posting info would be great in my opinion. Do you have anything on three springs?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 07, 2008, 06:28:33 PM
I'll search to see what I have on Three Springs, but first 2 questions...
 (1) do I send it to you, post it to a site or just post it here?
 (2) Isn't Three Springs a parent company of several smaller programs??? Is there any one specific program or are you looking for anything having to do with Three Springs?

Let me know,
Kathy

 :tup:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on December 07, 2008, 06:32:21 PM
Anything about three springs is welcome.

Getting people to speak about the place is proving...... challenging, but I have a few hopeful leads.

Post anything you have on the 3 springs holding thread.

Thanks.

Also..

Anything on any Aspen Schools?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 07, 2008, 06:39:50 PM
I have tons of stuff on aspen... where is the three springs holding thread??? Link, please?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 07, 2008, 06:59:09 PM
Quote from: "Kathy"
I have tons of stuff on aspen... where is the three springs holding thread??? Link, please?
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26223 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26223)
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 07, 2008, 07:40:02 PM
Before I continue to post stuff, please tell me if this is the kind of "stuff" you want.  For Three Springs... all I have is newspaper clippings...
For Aspen, where should that info go?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: hurrikayne on December 07, 2008, 07:48:05 PM
Suggestion, for the websites - perhaps a link to the FTC warning would be appropriate.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 07, 2008, 08:02:40 PM
I have some images and .pdf's of some newspaper stories..where should I put these?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 07, 2008, 11:23:23 PM
Quote from: "Kathy"
I have some images and .pdf's of some newspaper stories..where should I put these?
Email em to me, and i'll put em up on apall.org.
[email protected]
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: kev (antiWWASP.com) on December 08, 2008, 04:48:59 AM
man you guys are fast!... lol, so you're in research phases on everything still? or am i mistaken? oh wait, it looks like one school in one week... this is why i had to leave.

but psy looks like his free template is doing him just fine. except the only changes you've made was the logo and a  boring header graphic, and that got shot down for the most part by ursus.. i mean, at least pick a pretty template... and then pay for a template developers license so you can drop the copyrights like i was planning... at least then you have something gorgeous to display the content, instead of a dark, 10 minute-worth-of-work joomla template, with a 2 minute-worth-of-work plain text logo holding it all together..

in fact, i'm going to ask you not to include antiwwasp in this "alliance" now. you're a vindictive person whether you realize it or not, and i have no idea why you felt like pissing me off today psy, but it worked, and now i'd rather you not benefit from my content at all. thanks. diplomacy my ass.. practice what you preach.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 08, 2008, 05:33:17 AM
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
man you guys are fast!... lol, so you're in research phases on everything still? or am i mistaken? oh wait, it looks like one school in one week... this is why i had to leave.

but psy looks like his free template is doing him just fine. except the only changes you've made was the logo and a  boring header graphic, and that got shot down for the most part by ursus.. i mean, at least pick a pretty template... and then pay for a template developers license so you can drop the copyrights like i was planning... at least then you have something gorgeous to display the content, instead of a dark, 10 minute-worth-of-work joomla template, with a 2 minute-worth-of-work plain text logo holding it all together..

in fact, i'm going to ask you not to include antiwwasp in this "alliance" now. you're a vindictive person whether you realize it or not, and i have no idea why you felt like pissing me off today psy, but it worked, and now i'd rather you not benefit from my content at all. thanks. diplomacy my ass.. practice what you preach.
Kevin.  You've caused more harm than good to this cooperative than anybody else here.  You complain about the lack of development on the apall website when you were the one to abandon it on a whim (because you were "bored") and dump it into my hands, doubling my work and forcing me to rebuild the website.  Fuck off you arrogant selfish prick.  You don't give a damn about truly fighting this industry, only how you look, and how much control you have over others.  No control and you throw a temper tantrum.  I've tried so hard to work with you but clearly you are intent on doing it your way or none at all.  Well, if that's the case you can do it your way alone.  Get out.  I can no longer trust you so you will no longer be privy to even the slightest bit of sensitive information on this sub-board.

Oh.. and some expert "designer" you are... telling everybody how you design stuff.  How many others know you just rip off other's templates and stick your name on them.  You're a designer in name only.  At least I leave the designer's names on the templates I use.  All you are is a con artist.  You wanted to charge CAFETY... what was it... 5k for doing the same to their website?  LOL.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 08, 2008, 05:41:10 PM
:timeout: These kind of posts can put an end to an effort quicker than anything.  This happens everytime somebody tries to organize anything, and this is precisely why nobody has been able to get together on a large scale effort.  ---  :wall:

Possible Solution--

I have a copy of the fornits wiki at ficanetwork.net (I call it the ficawiki), fornits has a fornits wiki and the secret prisons for teens site has a copy of it.  We have it in all three places to thwart hacker efforts to take it down.  The ficawiki is up and running thanks to work from Carsteen Overgaard.  I have no problem letting people add information to that site or the ficanetwork site if you want to use either of those places to be an information clearinghouse on programs.... I'd have to assign permissions to allow people to add to ficanetwork, just let me know who.... and I think everyone is already able to access the ficawiki.....

Right now, anyone can blog there. There are numerous possibilities.  You can create a "book" of documents, forums, and there is an unlimited amount of possibilities because it is like the wiki software in that it is an open source software program.    In this case, you don't have to agree with anyone about anything, you can just add what you think is pertinent.

Any thoughts????
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Rusty Goat on December 08, 2008, 05:55:17 PM
dumb idea here, lol, but what about just making the sites for the programs, putting in a description letter deal, then put up a list of links that would link to all the sites. Is that even possible? Like if you click on TranquilityBayExposed.com, it opens up, you see a letter describing the purpose of the site, then a table of links that when you click on one, it gives a list of links where info about that particular subject comes up. Or, would this be more along the lines of a table type format, like "Here's where to find info about.... then list off the primary orgs/blogs/etc... then Harrietta Homeowner can be in link/info heaven and the site could be produced and duplicated fairly quickly. I don't know if this made any sense, but whatever,  :roflmao:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Rusty Goat on December 08, 2008, 05:57:35 PM
what about just making the sites for the programs

Insert the word individual between the words "the sites"...
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: wdtony on December 08, 2008, 06:18:38 PM
I agree with Kathy and Rusty Goat.

Creating individual sites would be a good first start. Then linking them together by having a specific page on each site that is titled something like "A Widespread Problem".  I think it is important to have the sites almost completed before they are launched. I agree with RG in that things should be kept simple.

I think it is great to have svereral places to communicate and send current info, in case one or two sites goes down. I think Psy's original idea was good but apparently, as Kathy pointed out, these large scale efforts usually collapse upon the weight of themselves. Kathy makes excellent points concerning information sharing and backups. Carsten seems very diligent but I am not as familiar with him as I should be.

I would suggest people with specific knowledge of a type of program get together with people who can help with put a basic website format together. Then write out the content in a readable form about that specific program/program network.

Psy can work on an anti-program hub which can serve as a go-between while also increasing our search engine results with his understanding of SEO, RSS and other tips that don't overstep the bounds into a "black hat" situation. He could advise about this.

Tony
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Che Gookin on December 08, 2008, 06:47:36 PM
It isn't that the efforts have collapsed to create websites. Quite the opposite as some of us are actively digging for information.

What needs to happen is our searches need to be organized and our approach modified.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on December 11, 2008, 11:40:47 AM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Kathy"
I have some images and .pdf's of some newspaper stories..where should I put these?
Email em to me, and i'll put em up on apall.org.
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26298 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26298)[/list]
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 11, 2008, 11:52:59 AM
I wish I had time to write an article on that, but i'm inundated with other work at the moment.  Is it possible you could write one pretty please?
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Rusty Goat on December 12, 2008, 12:01:03 PM
is appal.org up? where? how? I got a 404 when I tried it
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 12, 2008, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: "Rusty Goat"
is appal.org up? where? how? I got a 404 when I tried it

We moved it to troubled-teen-indsutry.com after kevin went a bit nuts (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26284#p320566).  Click here for a link:
http://troubled-teen-industry.com/ (http://troubled-teen-industry.com/)
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Rusty Goat on December 13, 2008, 11:25:01 PM
ok, that works thanks
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Femanon4Che on December 15, 2008, 10:09:54 AM
Hey all, Sorry i havent been real active in the forums, You will not believe how tired I am right now but I felt I should let you guys know that I have been doing A TON of strategy work for our upcoming projects. For all of you who are joining the research team Psy, and I are setting up a project manager on www.Troubled-Teen-Industry.com (http://www.Troubled-Teen-Industry.com) and we have developed a comprehensive template that represents an organized "Informational Database" that you can use to collect and organize your researched materials. We have just launched a new project called "Project Sharing System" (or is it strategy... i dunno i forgot) and in a few days time we will have prepared all the intial information you will need to get started on an organized research strategy. We will also be inviting you to organize yourselves into teams an create your "Team Strategy" that will be an integral part of a "Collaborative Strategy" to achieve our common goals.

I thank you all for your help and hard work here, keep it all up and go register at www.Troubled-Teen-Industry.com (http://www.Troubled-Teen-Industry.com) goddamnit.

love always,
your neighborhood femanon
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Kathy on December 15, 2008, 10:47:37 AM
very cool.... Sounds like we might actually get further than we have in past attempts.... kudos to the techies!!!! yay! :rocker:  :tup:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Femanon4Che on December 16, 2008, 09:24:54 AM
I wanted to get some feedback from you all on this tho, I know that most of us dont like being micro managed, me included so I want to let you all know that the only "direction" I will be offering are simply some suggestions to point you in the right direction. My only strong hope is that you use the database template that I will provide in order to keep your research articles organized. I will explain more later about this system and why I believe it is important that we all use it, but for now I will just let you guys know that Im doing this to make sure no one wastes their valuable time. There is a lot of work to be done here, way past this project we have many MANY more to tackle and its important that we dont burn ourselves out. How each team decides to structure or unstructure their time and sub projects is comepletely up to what you all agree on, but it would help to get an idea of generally how everyone prefers to work so we can recommend that you get hooked up with a project manager and team members that appreciate the same operation style. That being said, do you think you could all give me a quick summary of yourself, and how you would prefer to assist this movement (special talents, experience, resources and such) as well let me know if you work well under specific instruction, general guidance or self motivation. As well, feel free to offer any feedback or suggestions that might help organize our teams.

Just a lil background, I have been active with another organization for a few years now, I first had my experience story published by ISAC in 2004 feel free to give it a read if you would like to know about me and my experience in the program.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Zt6 ... cd=3&gl=us (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Zt6cZ21MgmUJ:www.isaccorp.org/casa/cfiler.pdf+chelsea+filer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us)
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... lsea_Filer (http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/index.php?title=Chelsea_Filer)
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 16, 2008, 10:32:29 AM
Now hold on there.  We haven't fully decided on whether or not that database template is feasable (though it seems so).  We'll have to talk about this a little more.  You also might want to explain about your idea of how to structure the research and how it will be published.  I like your categorizing idea a lot, but you should probably explain it more to those who don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Femanon4Che on December 16, 2008, 11:32:35 AM
I agree, and I plan to... nothing will be forced upon anyone, not that I could anyway lol. As well, I hope you all dont see my stepping up as an insult, the last thing I want to do is micro manage anyone. If you guys can understand, I am so used to NOTHING getting done at antiwwasp and HAVING to be the one to take charge. I in no way intend to step on your toes, Im the kind of person who loves working in a group and I DONT like to establish pecking orders. I also am always open to feedback and greatly appreciate it so if you work with me you wont have to worry about walking on eggshells. Not that you guys would anyway lol. and btw, I do appreciate a sense of humor so do your worst.

I just needed a day to rest I was up until 9am the other morning got 3 hours of sleep before i needed to catch a conference call and then went to bed at about 6am that next morning. this seems to be a pattern with me ever since I started this project... my biological clock is all mixed up.

I have outlined in our project manager that I plan to prepare an extensive explaination of my ideas and submit it to everyone to review and decide upon. the only thing I feel strongly about is organizing the information so that no one wastes their time making multiple entries and makes it easier for us to store and upload this database online. If anyone has changes to or wants to try another method I am totally open to that.

If you dont mind guys Im going to head to bed, (its almost 9 am again) but I will make a detailed outline/ discription and submit it to you tomorrow.

 :hug:
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 16, 2008, 11:34:42 AM
Just to those who don't already know, our project manager can be accessed here on the troubled teen industry.com website:
http://troubled-teen-industry.com/index ... &Itemid=69 (http://troubled-teen-industry.com/index.php?option=com_projectfork&Itemid=69)

It's basically a software for managing projects.  You can organize things there, set tasks, calendar items, and upload files for sharing.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Femanon4Che on December 18, 2008, 06:59:27 AM
Hey everyone!
My apologies, I am having some software problems and waiting to hear back from the technical support guy before I can retrieve my data (in order to present it to you) In the mean time I thought I might tell you guys about the networking Im doing. I have made a myspace page for TTI and I am sending out friend requests to anyone I can find in groups like WWASP. Can you guys give me an idea of where I can find more groups with survivors? Do you think I should make individual myspace pages for the individual schools?

could use some help on this as well if anyone wants to run your own survivor myspace I can help you design it. In fact I think I might want to get a team together who are willing to do manage multiple survivor myspaces. Anyone interested? Even if your not interested I would appreciate everyones advice, espeically if you know what schools to do and where I can find survivors. Thanx!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Ursus on December 18, 2008, 12:28:06 PM
The MySpace situation is very fractured, IMO, and sometimes those dividing lines run along age groups. For example, in the case of Hyde Schools, you have over 40 years worth of former students who are often, as Hyde School seems to ensure, still highly opinionated as to the appropriate take on the whole experiment. That ends up with former classmates clinging to their own "crowd," namely the folks who experienced pretty much the exact same conditions that they did, at least as far as certain non-subjective variables are concerned (staff, admins, lingo, etc.). That, of course, doesn't even touch upon the pro- vs. con- issue.

From what I can tell, there are a few Hyde MySpace groups, but often they are short-lived, and infrequently posted in. They generally tend to attract the younger ex-students.

There is also the issue of certain hell-holes being successful at having certain MySpace groups gutted of unflattering content...which certainly puts a chill into survivor discourse.

Personally, I think a larger MySpace Group with potential sub-groups (much like the structure of fornits) would be the most effective strategy in reaching and/or being palatable for the largest number of people... But I am hardly the expert, lol!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: Femanon4Che on December 19, 2008, 09:59:06 AM
Hmm... Good Idea! Well what I did was make the Troubled Teen Industry site Myspace page, quite possibly we can do as you stated to split it up into various groups... but for now all I'm interested in is sending out friend requests. I think there are many more survivors on Myspace, but the groups are somewhat unsuccessful that's why it would be best to just find them on Myspace and invite them to join us on the forums.

I would be interested in making multiple Myspace's for a more school specific approach to gathering survivors, if that sounds more agreeable... what do you guys think?

Please take a moment to check out the Troubled Teen Industry Myspace Page (http://http://www.myspace.com/antiwwasp619) and send us a friend request!
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: psy on December 19, 2008, 10:11:36 AM
Quote from: "Ursus"
There is also the issue of certain hell-holes being successful at having certain MySpace groups gutted of unflattering content...which certainly puts a chill into survivor discourse.

This is the only real thing i'm worried about.  Myspace *has* censored or deleted entire groups before.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: iamartsy on December 19, 2008, 12:30:31 PM
What about Facebook. I think many people went to the TBSs and RTCs and are on Facebook. It would be a good way to get research data and chat with them. More people have their own alumni groups their as well.
Title: Re: So what is this all about
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 26, 2008, 09:05:49 PM
Hai guys!

New account same beotch. Well wanted to drop in with an update. created the myspace for TTI but I switched to a new account/url. I havent had time to go add friends but I will soon dive back into that project. You can visit it at: http://www.myspace.com/troubledteenindustry (http://www.myspace.com/troubledteenindustry)

I have taken specific measures to protect our myspace's from being hacked... this has happened to me before with the WWASP survivors page so I planned ahead.

I have also started a Darrington Academy Survivors Page and friend requested everyone I could find that went to Darrington. Hope this helps us get a few to come forward and join our ranks.

I finished the "Research Strategy" project I mentioned before and wanted to make it available for everyone to use if they choose. I'm going to post it on the TTI project manager but I just wanted to let you all know you can email me and I can send you a zipped file that holds the folder storage/ organizational system and our project list as well as some instructions. Just so you all know, No one is required to use the system, I just want to make it available and hope it might be useful to you guys trying to keep track of all the information your combing through.

Please feel free to email me to get a copy and feel free to ask any questions or offer any suggestions.
[email protected]