Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Facility Question and Answers => CALO - Change Academy at Lake of the Ozarks => Topic started by: psy on September 16, 2009, 12:40:26 PM
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Continued from this thread (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27777&start=15#p344836).
I'm usually someone who sees things for how they are, without distorting events or ideas in a bias manner.
I'm skeptical such a person exists, self included, which is why it's necessary to limit power.
If anybody wants to know more about this place, feel free to ask me. I might be the only person who has ever been neutral about CALO (lol), so I don't have any reason to lie or hide anything.
What was group like? Was it harsh? Confrontational.
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Medical Tests
What medical tests did CALO require you to undergo prior to enrollment?
Who conducted the tests?
Physical Restraints
Did restraint reports specify proactive measures taken by staff to prevent restraints, what time restraints started, what time restraints finished, staff involved and injuries from restraints?
Were students allowed to process restraints via. telephone with their parents?
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CALo student #17
What happened after you attempted to communicate with those girls using sign language?
What is a double duece?
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Sorry for not getting back to you guys sooner. College has been keeping me busy, lol.
Anyways, I personally didn't have to go through any medical tests or evaluations. I'm sure that they evaluate the student first though. Most of the students that went to CALO had come from some other previous program at one point or another. I went to Second Nature, a wilderness program and I was transfered to CALO as soon as I came out of the woods. I'm sure that my therapist in SN forwarded my information to CALO. Besides that, the only tests that I went through were physicals every now and then that were given by a doctor from the nearby hospital (i forgot the name, sorry). I wasn't even prescribed meds for my entire stay there.
And as far as restraints go, staff typically tried to use the PCS method as a last resort. A hold typically put the day's flow out of whack, so for the sake of keeping the mood as positive as possible (which wasn't very high anyways) staff tried to talk the student down first. I'm not gonna lie, there's been a couple staff members who enjoyed holds, but those staff members didn't last more than 4 months. In fact, my entire stay in CALO, there was an average of 1 or 2 staff members being replaced every month.* Along with the disruption and having to move all the students away from the hold, staff also avoided holds because each one involved a good deal of paperwork. The student is always examined for injuries some time after the hold (unsually right after, but I've seen them take as much as 6 hours to get around to it). Any injuries are recorded, sometimes even if there is an injury that happened before the hold. The therapist and the parents are always alerted about the hold, but usually not right away unless the therapist is on campus at the time.
Students get at least one therapy session per week and almost always involve a phone call with the parents. This is usually to process whatever the student is working on in their program at the time. We also had another "free-time" phone call on Sundays. We used to be able to call to our parents durring this time, but once we started filling up with more students, we had to arrange times where the parents called in. We got 30 minute phone calls (which i always extended to 40-60 minutes :D). If the parent did not call in durring their scheduled time, then the student would be skipped. At the end of the phone call schedule, there is time set aside for the staff to try calling the parents who didn't call in. If they don't pick up, then the student typically doesn't talk to their parents until the therapy session later in the week. Durring the free-time phone calls, however, the students are not really being monitored, until it has been prescribed by the therapist. The phone room is pretty big, and theres only one staff member in there to watch us, sothey don't get the hance to actually listen in on all the conversations. We can say whatever we want.
Lol, Che, you've certainly done your homework. We typically get regroup for communicating with the opposite sex. We also got the green shirt, but that usually isn't a big deal. The therapist is usually informed of the comunication and the student gets to talk about whatever they were trying to do. This is usually where the students lie their asses off, btw, lol. Anyways, the "double deuces" thing was between another student and me. It was our sign of "I was thinking about you today". This "sign language" was set up when we were both on home visits. She called me every now and then, and before we went back to CALO, I thought it would be something cute to do. I'm not sure if anybosy else has used that, lol. I'm kinda suprised that you've heard about that, lol.
*This obviously caused problems with students because most of them were sent to CALO with attatchment issues. It always hurt when you get really close to a staff member, then they suddenly just disappear. Sometimes, the administrators actually didn't allow the staff members to return and say goodbyes. There were times when students would openly refuse to open up to staff members due to fear of being hurt when the staff member leaves.
Any other questions?
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Oh, i forgot to answer the other part of the "restraints" question.
All staff members on CALO property are PCS certified, so they can put students in a hold. I've even seen our cook put a kid in a hold once. Therapists and administrators aren't an exceptions either.
And as far as how long they last, it "lasts as long as it needs to". This pretty much means that they will keep the kid on the ground (not necessarily putting pressure) until they are calm enough to listen. Holds aren't like "kid disrupts - staff put into hold - kid calms down - staff gets off - day goes on". After the hold, the student has to talk to the staff members who put him him/her into a hold. It doesn't have to immediately after, but no longer than a day after the hold. Because of this, staff tend to keep the student down until they feel that the student is calm enough to talk to and resolve whatever issues are going on.
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17--
Were you ever abused by staff?
Do you think CALO was genuinely trying to help kids or were they just full of shit?
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Does Ken Huey allow students to call the state abuse hotline if a student witnesses abuse? If not, what are his reasons?
All staff members on CALO property are PCS certified, so they can put students in a hold. I've even seen our cook put a kid in a hold once. Therapists and administrators aren't an exceptions either. And as far as how long they last, it "lasts as long as it needs to".
The mindset "lasts as long as it needs to" really concerns me. This mentality casues serious injuries to children. It would make sense to call a supervisor to assist staff in preventing a restraint. Children respond better to a fresh face. This is not always the case though. Do staff call a supervisor as a proactive measure to prevent physical restraints? What is the longest you've seen another child in a restraint for?
I appreciate your willingness to answer questions. Thankyou very much.
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I'm not gonna lie, there's been a couple staff members who enjoyed holds, but those staff members didn't last more than 4 months.
Staff who enjoy holds is a serious problem. Did these staff provoke physical restraints? If yes, how did they provoke restraints?
In fact, my entire stay in CALO, there was an average of 1 or 2 staff members being replaced.* Along with the disruption and having to move all the students away from the hold, staff also avoided holds because each one involved a good deal of paperwork.
What were the students reactions when they saw physical restraints?
The student is always examined for injuries some time after the hold (unsually right after, but I've seen them take as much as 6 hours to get around to it). Any injuries are recorded, sometimes even if there is an injury that happened before the hold. The therapist and the parents are always alerted about the hold, but usually not right away unless the therapist is on campus at the time.
I assume physical restraint paperwork consists of (1) proactive measures to prevent a restraint (2) students state of mind prior to the restraint (3) reason student was restrained (4) when the restraint started (5) when the restraint finished (6) type of physical restraint conducted and (7) staff involved in the restraint. Am I correct?
I assume PCS restraints, from my research, consist of bent wrist control with sub variations. Am I correct?
Thankyou for your time and effort.
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Very interesting about the green shirts. I heard Ken Hooey claiming they were voluntary for kids who need a bit more attention.
As for restraint happy staff lasting only 4 or so months? Are you kidding me? What about Brian and Kevin, aka the champion psycho staffers who love to inflicit the pain?
? Also what about Nick Llament who was fired because he didn't support Kevin who did a shit hold on some poor kid? I understood the kids at CALO had a high regard for him.
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Very interesting about the green shirts. I heard Ken Hooey claiming they were voluntary for kids who need a bit more attention.
Well. In fairness he said they were mostly voluntary (if you feel down, you wear a special shirt and people are supposed to be nice to you, for example). He did say that there were cases where kids were made to wear them but recently claimed that they stopped that practice.
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To thetruthplease:
No, personally, I was never abused by staff. In fact, in my entire stay (1 year, 1 day), I wasn't put into a hold once. I've had my wrist held, but they didn't put any pressure.
And honestly, I think that there are some very genuine staff members there who want to help, but then there are other who have different reasons for being there. I'll get a little more into depth about this when I answer bobpeterson.
To Questions:
No, we aren't allowed to call anyone at all. The only time that we can kind of call out, is when our paretns don't call for our Sunday phone time. Even then, it is the staff member who picks up the phone and talks to the person first before the student does. This is because a student once tried to call a friend to come get them.
Holds have always been a wierd situation. It's different for different students. Some students preffer to be held by a staff member that they trust. That way, it's easier for them to open up when processing whatever is going on. On the other hand, when some students are restrained by a trusted staff member, they instantly feel like they lose connection with them. They hold the mindset of "How can you do this? I thought we were friends". But from what I've seen, for the most part, being restrained by a newer staff member prevents the students from opening up. Only a couple students comply with a newer staff.
I've seen a student be in a hold, literally, for about 3 hours. There wasn't constant pressure being put on the whole time though, obviously. He was put into a hold, then the staff would stop putting pressure when he calmed down enough to listen. They'd usually let go of the wrists, then just hold down the arms and talk. They felt good enough to let him sit up as they talked, but then he started saying violent things again. This held his hands again and told him that he neede to calm back down again, but when he started fighting back anyways, they threw him down into another hold. This sort-of cycle went on a few times, making the overall hold last a long time.
To bobpeterson:
No, the staff don't provoke the students in a sense of saying "Does that make you mad? Are you going to do something about it?". When I say that they're restrain-happy, I mean that they have more of a mindset of "secure the student first, then ask questions". Of course, this didn't go over too well with the students (mostly because we felt like the staff wanted the hold to take place), so naturally... that's where it led to.
The reactions to restraints differed depending on who it was being held. It wasn't uncommon that we could see that it was completely the fault of the student. Some of the kids there were... hot headed and stubborn. However, I do recall a time when a student was put into a hold because they were freaking out about their friend being retrained.
I've never actually seen the paperwork myself, but that sounds about right. The only thing that I would think to add is the physical body check. After each hold, the student is examined for and injuried that may have occured durring the hold.
And yes, what happens durring PCS (stands for "Positive Control System") is the wrist bending. The staff member lodges the student's elbow into the bend of the staff's own arm, in order to keep the student from pulling out of it. They then bend the wrist downwards. This is supposedly proven to be impossible to break a person's wrist, because the "pain" (which is more of a discomfort than a pain) is caused by the tendons being stretched. Personally, I think that if the wrist-bending were done at a ridiculously high speed, then the tendon could actually snap, or even pull a small bone fragment out of place. I only know this because it's what happened to me in football... but honestly, a staff member would have to be really, really strong and being trying to break something. There aren't many variations, besides positioning of the student. The PCS I just described would be called an "escort", with a staff member on each side, both with an arm. A "hold" is when the student is put onto the ground. The arms are on the ground and out to the sides. This also requires one staff member per arm and the staff member is holding the arm down by the student's tricep. The hand is upwards, and bent towards the body of the student. This is basically the same thing. The only variation on the actual bending involves the position of the thumb. When the thumb is pulled in, towards the palm, it bunches the nerves in the wrist, causing an even greater discomfort durring the bend.
To Che:
We all loved Nick. He was one of the most genuine staff members that we had. He personally told me that he wasn't fired, but that he was having family problems. It's true that he didn't agree with all of the CALO procedures and stuff, but his family member was in the hospital. From what he knew, the family member wouldn't be able to work, so Nick volunteered to take over the business. He felt that it was a good time to do so anyways, since he knew that CALO admins didn't really like how he disagreed with their system.
Green shirts can be optional, meaning that the student can inform the staff members that they would like extra attention and closeness. For the most part, though, it was staff's decision to put kids on closeness. Trust me, most of the kids there don't know what's good for them, so a lot of them needed to have someone tell them. I'm not gonna lie though, there's been times where the green shirt was a bunch of bullshit. Typically, it wasn't a big deal. It usually didn't restrict you from doing anything, unless prescribed by the therapist. The green shirt almost completely means that staff keeps a better watch on you. Not a whole lot more than that.
And I'm not sure which brian and kevin that you're talking about. I said before that I wasn't really going to name people, but if you send me a private message, I'd be glad to reply a response on this forum again. I have a pretty good idea of who you're talking about though, lol.
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Oh, shit, I boarderlined a lie just now.
I've never been "abused" by staff, but I've wrestled around with some and I play fight with a couple. We usually did this without other students or higher-ups knowing, but it was never abusive and they still followed the guidelines of the 2-1 ratio... so it was either 2 staff against me, or one of them would just watch, lol. It was never abusive though, but I've bust my lip once, lol. These few staff members made it very clear, though, that if they didn't think I could handle it, then they never would consider it.
This would also be a good time to mention that staff there play favorites. I mean, we're all human, but still, I've seen ridiculous double standards at times. Most of the staff loved me, because I basically get along with everyone that I meet... except for Caleb... he and I never got along. Anyways, it was a bit unfair when staff members didn't care when I did some stuff and wouldn't allow others. That didn't matter too much, because they usually had the excuse of "well, I personally feel like he can handle things like this, so I say it's okay". The part that pissed me off was when there was a student that everybody hated. There were only 3 or 4 studets that fit this category, but still, staff members didn't lose any sleep after putting them into vicious holds. So yeah... since there was no bond between the staff and the student, there wasn't nearly as much hesitation when it came to putting them to the ground. I hated that, so I did what I could to help.
By the way, I'm going to be busy for most of today because I'm taking my friend out to Olive Garden and Jillian's for her birthday. I might not be able to answer any questions until late tonight. Tomorrow, I have some event at some temple to go to... I'm not too sure of what it is or how long it lasts, but I'll try to get back to you guys if I can again. Sorry guys, lol, but I'm doing as much as I can.
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A girl who recently ran from CALO, according to the press, hadn't spoken to her parents in ~8-9 months. Is that sort of thing normal? What might have caused that lapse in communication?
Also, what's this whole business about "therapeutic touch". What's that about, because it sounds rather... unsettling?
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Also, what are "accountability groups" like?
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So if Nick Llament left to help the family business why is he waiting tables at Applebees? And as for restraints something tells me you missed the one where the girl got thrown on her face in the parking lot for throwing a snowball at a male staff member.
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Ugh, I've been so damn busy. My GF's been sick and I've also been helping her with some issues with her sis. Anyways, keep the questions coming. They're pretty good.
To Psy:
No, that typically isn't normal, but I knew the girl... and she didn't want to talk to her parents. It wasn't CALO that was keeping them from contact, it was because of the fact that she didn't really want to move forward with her program. (For the record, I'm only speaking on what I personally experienced. Keep in mind, I left CALO a little while back, so I'm not exceptionally sure on all the stuff that has gone on, besides what I hear from my fellow "survivors").
And accountability groups varied greatly, depending on what it's been called for, and who's involved. Typically, it's called by a student (or a couple) in an attempt to "hold another student accountable for their actions". These groups have also been suggested by staff, of course. I've seen accountability groups last less than 3 minutes, and I've also seen some last 3 hours, depending on who's it's been called on and who calls it. Sometimes, the group isn't interested in the subject at all, so they just bullshit through it so that it's over with. Other times, students are seemingly "out for blood" if the group is called on someone that nobody really likes. Personally, I didn't enjoy these groups unless the person actually takes stuff to heart, or else it's just a waste of time... because we end up calling another one for a similar act later.
There aren't many guidelines on how these groups go either, since they're typically led by the students, but moderated by the staff. Sometimes, the group can set up a consequence, depending on what has been done. These consequences are usually agreed upon by the group and the request is sent to the student's therapist to be officialized. These consquences also vary a lot too. They can be restrictions (like not being allowed to have sharp things because they threatened students), or regroup (because they can't handle being with the group), or closeness until the group eels like the student is okay. After about 19:00 or 20:00, we typically don't have accountability groups. This is just so that people don't get too hyped up before bed, so we usually put the subject off until the next day.
I've seen groups get out of hand before, which usually affects the whole group for the rest of the day. Some of these get bad because a student feels like they've been "ratted out" by someone that they thought was their friend. This is always a tough situation because CALO tryies to teach us that "holding people accountable" is one of the only ways that you can help your fellow students. Personally, I've always been a believer of loyalty, so I didn't call many of these... at all. I was the person in the group who knew everything that was going on, but I'd advise the student to be smart about whatever they're doing. I was always behind the scenes telling them that I didn't approve, but it's their decision, and to know what repercussions would come from their choice. By doing this, I helped to limit the number of these groups (on the guy's side, anyways), but since I've left... I'm not really sure. Anyways, like i was saying, these groups sometimes hurt. Sometimes, when the whole group agrees with the grievance, it feels like everyone is ganging up on you, and unfortunately, not everybody seems to realize that. Not even the staff, for some reason.
On that note, I should also say that these groups have gone over very well sometimes. Not all of the short accountability groups were because people didn't care. There's been times when the student, who the group was called on, openly admits to whatever they've done, appologizes, then sometimes even set their own consequence that the group agrees to. This act usually shows how mature the student has become.
To Che:
Like I said earlier, I've been away from CALO for a good bit, so I don't know what Nick is doing right now. He left CALO about a year ago, so either way, it wouldn't suprise me of whatever he's doing. Like i said, I can really only report what i've seen and known from my personal experience. And yes, I guess I missed that hold, but I do remember one that was similar to it. This one involved a student who didn't even throw something in the general direction of people. He just threw something into the woods and a staff member (who i might add, is a bit power hungry to begin with) yelled at him. The student (along with all the other students) thought this sounded stupid.... so he did it again and was thrown down to the ground. There wasn't even anyone over there! That pissed me off... anyways, the staff member's excuse was that "If (student's name) isn't in a spot to be able to listen to my concerns of safety, then I'm not sure what else he'd be willing to do. It's a big safety concern if he is blatantly going against safety".
I promise that I'm gonna try to get back to you guys more often, lol. I don't exactly enjoy having to write full essays every time I sign on, so I'll try to answer questions sooner so that they don't bulk up like this.
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Ugh, I've been so damn busy. My GF's been sick and I've also been helping her with some issues with her sis.Anyways, keep the questions coming. They're pretty good.
Thank you. I appreciate your input.
fellow "survivors"
Use the term only if you want and if you feel it fits.
Personally, I didn't enjoy these groups unless the person actually takes stuff to heart, or else it's just a waste of time... because we end up calling another one for a similar act later.
What are the average sorts of offenses to be talked about in these groups? Do you feel some of these things might have been better handled privately (either staff-student or student-student). Many other programs have been rather intrusive in the types of things talked about in these types of groups (masturbatory practices, personal hygiene, etc.)... Just stuff that could cause more shame and reduce somebody's self worth by being brought up in a public forum.
Do you feel that shame was ever used as a method of change? Do you feel in some individuals this could cause harm, either temporarily or in the longer term?
or regroup (because they can't handle being with the group)
I was told by a certain Calo staff person that kids could opt out of groups if they chose to or if they didn't want to discuss something (however he did not elaborate on whether or not the kids knew they could do this). It doesn't sound like that's true from what you're saying.
or closeness until the group eels like the student is okay.
So to a certain extent, intimacy is forced? A student wanting to be left the hell alone would not be allowed to do so? Was there a term for this, such as "isolating" or some-such?
After about 19:00 or 20:00, we typically don't have accountability groups. This is just so that people don't get too hyped up before bed, so we usually put the subject off until the next day.
You make it sound like these groups are fairly stressful. How rowdy can they get? How harsh could a person get in a verbal confrontation before a staff moderator stepped in?
I've seen groups get out of hand before, which usually affects the whole group for the rest of the day. Some of these get bad because a student feels like they've been "ratted out" by someone that they thought was their friend. This is always a tough situation because CALO tryies to teach us that "holding people accountable" is one of the only ways that you can help your fellow students.
Do you feel this got to the point where it was almost as if there was a "secret police"? I worry about creating an atmosphere where people learn they can't confide in anybody and can't trust in anybody. It also creates an atmosphere where one comes to believe that the program is all powerful and knows everything. Often that lasts a lot longer than the stay in the program itself, with people developing "trust issues" as a result.
Are kids rewarded for reporting on others (or should I say "helping" others), either explicitly or implicitly by gaining favor from the staff (or punishing people who don't report)?
Is there a serious effort to teach kids to resolve their own problems with others on their own without resorting to staff or the group?
Personally, I've always been a believer of loyalty, so I didn't call many of these... at all. I was the person in the group who knew everything that was going on, but I'd advise the student to be smart about whatever they're doing. I was always behind the scenes telling them that I didn't approve, but it's their decision, and to know what repercussions would come from their choice. By doing this, I helped to limit the number of these groups (on the guy's side, anyways), but since I've left... I'm not really sure. Anyways, like i was saying, these groups sometimes hurt. Sometimes, when the whole group agrees with the grievance, it feels like everyone is ganging up on you, and unfortunately, not everybody seems to realize that. Not even the staff, for some reason.
I think that's a very common effect with that type of group dynamic, and why I think it has the potential for so much danger. Eventually a person breaks down, sometimes even confessing to things he/she didn't do, or exaggerating a problem for approval. Given enough time, a person can come to believe things about themselves that are just not true. A casual drinker can come to believe himself an alcholic. A kid who smoked pot with friends can come to be labeled an "addict". Decisions and judgements that should normally be made by an individual are made by the group, with little actual personal knowledge and an unhealthy dose of prejudice (For example, one person who has a drug problem might deny it, but this can cause others to see anybody who denies having a drug problem as being a liar and "in denial").
Robert Lifton wrote a book on similar group dynamics. he wrote (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html#The%20Cult%20of%20Confession):
"Closely related to the demand for absolute purity is an obsession with personal confession. Confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal, and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself. There is the demand that one confess to crimes one has not committed, to sinfulness that is artificially induced, in the name of a cure that is arbitrarily imposed. Such demands are made possible not only by the ubiquitous human tendencies toward guilt and shame but also by the need to give expression to these tendencies. In totalist hands, confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace for, these vulnerabilities."
It's important to note that a program can create such a dynamic in ignorance, without intent (though sometimes they see the apparent benefit of such confessions and choose to exploit them to parents or for use in marketing).
On that note, I should also say that these groups have gone over very well sometimes. Not all of the short accountability groups were because people didn't care. There's been times when the student, who the group was called on, openly admits to whatever they've done, appologizes, then sometimes even set their own consequence that the group agrees to. This act usually shows how mature the student has become.
Or that he realizes the futility of defending himself against what can essentially become mob justice. I'm not saying that's what happens at CALO. I'm saying it very easily can. Sometimes a person is innocent and has a decent defense, however mobs are rarely willing to listen to reason when they've already come to their judgment. If an accountability group is really a "we know you did it and you're going to stay here until you admit to it" group, I can't really see the benefit.
I promise that I'm gonna try to get back to you guys more often, lol. I don't exactly enjoy having to write full essays every time I sign on, so I'll try to answer questions sooner so that they don't bulk up like this.
Well. I appreciate the time you're taking and the thought that has gone into your responses.
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You also mentioned in another thread that each student had to write a list including:
4. Reasons for being here
Is "parents overreacted" ever a valid option that is accepted by the program? Would a person holding to that opinion ever be allowed to leave? What I'm getting at is to whether a person is allowed to make their own judgments about the gravity of their behavior or whether the program will apply pressure until they admit they have a problem (even if they don't feel that is so, and may not be so)?
I realize that there's that phrase about all inmates in prison claiming to be "innocent" but in some cases it might be true, and a prison does not try to coerce a person into admitting guilt. Furthermore, as far as I understand it there is little or no due process involved sending a kid to a program. The guilt/innocence is determined not by a jury of peers but by the program itself and/or a physician who is only human and can have biases and can makes mistakes.
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To Psy:
Well, it's hard to say what an "average" offense would be in these groups, because they're called on a case-by-case basis. On a regular day, there are plenty of things that a group can be called on. It can range anywhere from stealing food, communicating with the opposite sex, not be hygenic (excessively), openly pushing homosexuality onto straight students, taking anger out on a bunch of students, or whatever else. Like I said before, I've always been someone who believes that a person is more willing to listen and be helped when the advice is coming from someone that they can trust. I had a good relationship with all of the students (mostly on my side of the building, obviously) and I found that it was more effective for them if we had one-on-one talks regularly. I've never agreed with the idea that a student will learn better if all of his/her peers "hold them accountable". And yes, sometimes the issues are rather personal and the staff and therapists usually urge the student to be "open" (?) and not hide things from the group. Yeah, effing right. Everytime I've seen theese kinds of issues discussed, the student shrinks away and is very uncomfortable with talking to anybody for a few days. And yes, shame wasn't the direct intentions, but I saw that it was an outcome from these talks (which sometimes, did work, and other times, only offend and hurt the student). It wasn't usually stated like "you should be ashamed of yourself" or "how can you live with yourself", but it was rather... implied in their methods. By the book, the staff are to say that they are not aiming for shame. They teach that we shoulod not feel shame and regret, but rather, remorse. The difference is that shame is the thought process of "I've a terrible person", and remorse is the thought process of "I did something bad, but I can learn to be better now". Well, this make sense in theory, but in practice... it didn't always work out, obviously. This is real life, which does not always go by the book, or straight from a system.
That staff member is correct. There was a student in particular who did this a LOT. Students were definately urged to talk about whatever is going on, but the student's famous phrase was "fuck you guys, I'm going to regroup", which always meant "I'm not gonna talk about what's wrong, so I'm gonna go off by myself". When you got out of regroup, it wasn't manditory to process afterwards, so this was an easy way out if you didn't want to share. Of course, this was only temporary, because if you don't choose to process, then "that's not saying anything good about your program". And correct, this was generally labeled as "isolating".
It wasn't rare for these accountability groups to take a large toll on the students. Emotions sometimes flare on touchy subjects, or worse... subjects that affect the whole group. Sometimes, the actions of one or a few students can result in a loss in privilages for the entire group. Obviously, this doesn't go over too well, so it can get the guys/girls in some bad mojo. If emotions run too high, then staff will usually stop it, but like I said before... if they didn't favor the student, then sometimes, they wouldn't care if the student was puking from crying so damn much. But also like I said before, these were only worse case scenerios, because this wasn't always what happens.
Students were very much urged to report other students in an "accountable manner". Not always the case, but that was the basic idea. If a student were to hold another one accountable, then it means that they are mature and have moved forward in their program. Students who keep secrets for their friends were labeled as not being a "true friend" because they aren't trying to "truely help their friends in the most positive way possible". The staff generally try to portray this in a manner of "if your friend has a drug addiction, the only way to be a true friend, is to get them help like a rehab center". Well, this is true... but if it's for something that big, you know? If your friend shoplifts, then I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call the cops on them... maybe tell them that it wasn't smart, but definately not get them arrested. I always thought that was stupid. That's why I was the person that a lot of the guys (and some girls) went to when they didn't know what else to do. I didn't confinde into too many people, but they weren't usually trustworthy enough of that. Since the students had the mindset of "if you hold your teammates accountable, then you're farther in your program" (which means that you leave sooner), I didn't tell them my stuff... I just listened to theirs and held my mouh shut to staff. This was general knowledge among the students, lol.
As for the "resons for being here", nobody really criticized what your answer was. Sometimes the students would snicker amongs themselves saying things like "oh, that'll change"... because typically, it did. The program would come around to convincing you that you can always improve... which typically, is true, and I can understand that. But not the the extent that they try to stretch it. They teach that no matter what has gone on in your life, it could have been different if you had empathy and humility. If you thought otherwise and felt that you're fine the way you are, then you're "in denial and rationalizing your actions". It makes sense though... if you maximize a student's faults, then the parents would be more willing to keep the student there... resulting in more money for CALO. But I guess that's just how it goes, lol.
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Students were very much urged to report other students in an "accountable manner". Not always the case, but that was the basic idea. If a student were to hold another one accountable, then it means that they are mature and have moved forward in their program. Students who keep secrets for their friends were labeled as not being a "true friend" because they aren't trying to "truely help their friends in the most positive way possible". The staff generally try to portray this in a manner of "if your friend has a drug addiction, the only way to be a true friend, is to get them help like a rehab center". Well, this is true... but if it's for something that big, you know? If your friend shoplifts, then I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call the cops on them... maybe tell them that it wasn't smart, but definately not get them arrested. I always thought that was stupid. That's why I was the person that a lot of the guys (and some girls) went to when they didn't know what else to do. I didn't confinde into too many people, but they weren't usually trustworthy enough of that. Since the students had the mindset of "if you hold your teammates accountable, then you're farther in your program" (which means that you leave sooner), I didn't tell them my stuff... I just listened to theirs and held my mouh shut to staff. This was general knowledge among the students, lol.
Lol. Hyde calls this "Brother's Keeper (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=25286)." Same shit, different brand name on the wrapper.
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Students were very much urged to report other students in an "accountable manner". Not always the case, but that was the basic idea. If a student were to hold another one accountable, then it means that they are mature and have moved forward in their program. Students who keep secrets for their friends were labeled as not being a "true friend" because they aren't trying to "truely help their friends in the most positive way possible". The staff generally try to portray this in a manner of "if your friend has a drug addiction, the only way to be a true friend, is to get them help like a rehab center". Well, this is true... but if it's for something that big, you know? If your friend shoplifts, then I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call the cops on them... maybe tell them that it wasn't smart, but definately not get them arrested. I always thought that was stupid. That's why I was the person that a lot of the guys (and some girls) went to when they didn't know what else to do. I didn't confinde into too many people, but they weren't usually trustworthy enough of that. Since the students had the mindset of "if you hold your teammates accountable, then you're farther in your program" (which means that you leave sooner), I didn't tell them my stuff... I just listened to theirs and held my mouh shut to staff. This was general knowledge among the students, lol.
Lol. Hyde calls this "Brother's Keeper (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=25286)." Same shit, different brand name on the wrapper.
Or as we called it at three springs, "Your ladder out of the program."
Yes, same shit different wrapper. It's interesting though that CALO seems like a blend of about four different programs that I'm familiar with. I doubt Ken Huey has managed to come up with anything original.
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As for the "resons for being here", nobody really criticized what your answer was. Sometimes the students would snicker amongs themselves saying things like "oh, that'll change"... because typically, it did. The program would come around to convincing you that you can always improve... which typically, is true, and I can understand that. But not the the extent that they try to stretch it. They teach that no matter what has gone on in your life, it could have been different if you had empathy and humility. If you thought otherwise and felt that you're fine the way you are, then you're "in denial and rationalizing your actions".
So in a sense, if you refused to denounce yourself as what the group accused you of, you would never progress? That strikes me as more re-education than anything else... trying to change a person's philosophy and worldview. Don't get me wrong. I think those values are beneficial to have (my personal choice), but I don't think anybody should be forced to accept them if they ever want to leave. Even if it were ethical, it wouldn't work in the long run. People have to realize not just what they believe but why they believe it. If they don't come to those realizations on their own, if the change isn't from within, those values are going to have no solid foundation... They'll collapse as soon as they're challenged in the real world.
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Empathy and humility are worthy traits to have in a person, yet not every person needs them, and nor do they need to be made to learn them. Could anyone imagine someone like General George Patton sitting down and having a nice heart to heart with the Germans? For that matter would I ever want the man to have done something like that? Umm.. no.. I'll send in Oprah if someone needs a big hug, right after I kick her fatass for being a Dr. Phil supporter. Each of us by design are individuals and we are each owed the opprotunity to decide what personality traits that are best for us. Most of us don't do this as a concious thought, but more so over a prolonged period of time as a result of living life.
My guess is and this comes from my own experience working in the programs, most kids in CALO, "Fake it to make it." Any genuine change probably isn't or won't or never has been genuine enough to be long lasting. Change in a program breaks down when faced by reality. Showing those new traits because you have to impress staff with your empathy, or ruthlessness from the sounds of it from the Group meetings, is an entirely different kettle of fish when in the real world.
Well Proxied posted a note that one staffer sent to the rest claiming that a youth in CALO thanked a staffer for being their to consequence him/her. Now if that isn't blowing hot air up someone's ass I don't know what is. Programs are notorious for breeding a vicious cycle of manipulation on the part of the captives to effect their escape from the dump.
Program= artificial world of insanely high expectations and artificially asserted consequences that have no real bearing on the problem.
Real life= real life and there is absolutely no escaping it as not one bit of it is fake.
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To Psy:
Well, yeah, I guess yo ucould say that. It almost reminds me of the military, lol. "Break you down, then build you up better" or some crap like that.They'd maximize your bad traits and I guess they try to show you how bad you've been and how you've affected your family. I think the basic idea is that once you see how much you've hurt your family, it might push you to want to become a better person. It sounds wierd, but I guess it makes sense... but once again, in theory. That would probably only work if the student already had a genuine desire to be close to his or her parents. If there is no desire, then they can always bullshit it... but they would have to bull shit well, because CALO is strong about having to show "consistency over time". There was a kid who had strict ass parents... and I felt sorry for him sometimes. It took him over a year just to earn an overnight with his parents (not to mention that he was one of the original 8 that came to CALO). Closer to the end of his program, he was doing perfectly fine for two whole months. When his therapist and parents scheduled for him to gradute soon (less than 1 week and a half away), he got into a hold... so they put off the graduation for even longer. He was there for about two and a half years until he graduated.... me on the other hand, I was there for 1 year and 1 day, but that's because there wasn't too much between my parents and me. Just a few issues with mny dad, which we could have resolved if I stayed at home, lol.
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To Psy:
Well, yeah, I guess yo ucould say that. It almost reminds me of the military, lol. "Break you down, then build you up better" or some crap like that.They'd maximize your bad traits and I guess they try to show you how bad you've been and how you've affected your family. I think the basic idea is that once you see how much you've hurt your family, it might push you to want to become a better person. It sounds wierd, but I guess it makes sense... but once again, in theory. That would probably only work if the student already had a genuine desire to be close to his or her parents. If there is no desire, then they can always bullshit it... but they would have to bull shit well, because CALO is strong about having to show "consistency over time". There was a kid who had strict ass parents... and I felt sorry for him sometimes. It took him over a year just to earn an overnight with his parents (not to mention that he was one of the original 8 that came to CALO). Closer to the end of his program, he was doing perfectly fine for two whole months. When his therapist and parents scheduled for him to gradute soon (less than 1 week and a half away), he got into a hold... so they put off the graduation for even longer. He was there for about two and a half years until he graduated.... me on the other hand, I was there for 1 year and 1 day, but that's because there wasn't too much between my parents and me. Just a few issues with mny dad, which we could have resolved if I stayed at home, lol.
Lemme guess.. Kevin is the one who performed that hold, and I bet there is a reasonable case to be made for him provoking it. I bet that was also around the time Nick Llament left to "Help with the family business... cough cough.. fired".
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There's been times when the student, who the group was called on, openly admits to whatever they've done, appologizes, then sometimes even set their own consequence that the group agrees to. This act usually shows how mature the student has become.
I'm wondering what you mean by this. You mean this is what you believe or this is the CALO philosophy? Cause that was the philosophy in The Seed/Straight too. Any behavior viewed as good was attributable only to the Program working. Anything viewed as bad was proof of a kid 'not working their program' and of 'druggie ways'.
Easy confession, apology and offer to make amends could also mean a number of other things:
- The kid knows how to get the heat off (and it's easier than staff will admit to bullshit your way aaaaaalllll the way through)
- The kid was already pretty mature to begin with
- The kid wasn't guilty of the charge or the charge was not anything viewed as bad in the more commonly accepted reality. But they have been successfully brainwashed to cop to any accusation and even to believe it.
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What happens to the dogs once the student leaves? I would imagine you get pretty attached to them. Do you get to take your dog home with you? Are there circumstances, other than the student mistreating the dog, where you could lose your dog while in program?
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Sorry that it's taken me more than a week to reply... I recently got a job working as an accountant, and I've been working 5 days a week and attending other matters, like prison visits. Anyways...
To Che:
Yeah, actually, it was Kevin, lol. And technically, there was a "reason" for the hold... but it was bull shit. He kind of apologized later, but obviously, that didn't matter too much to his parents.
To Antigen:
These aren't my views. These are CALO's views. In the future, I'll try to be better about clarify whether or not it's my opinion or CALO's. And usually, if the student has showed that they can properly take care of the dog, they get to keep it. This is a long and difficult process, however, because the head of the canine therapy. She was a bit anal about things and liked it to be her way. She wasn't necessarily bad or anything... it's just that... sometimes, she didn't really know what she was talking about. Anyways, I only know of 2... maybe 3 dogs that left with graduating students. It's a low number because there weren't very many dogs when the program first started. 4, actually. It takes a lot of time and consistency for the therapists to agree that the dog and the student are both in good emotional condition to be together. The dog has disciplinary requirements and obedience training... and it's hard to train these dogs because there was a limited time that we spent with them. They were locked up in their pen for most of their day, so naturally, whenever they were being walked or whatever, they were full of energy and didn't like to listen all the time, lol. Anyways, like I was saying before... there is a "committee" of therapists and administrators that get together to decide if the dog is ready to go home with the student and if the student is able to handle the dog. I dont remember if it is a majority vote that decides, or if they all have to agree... but I just remember that it was tough.
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It sounds like most students ... don't ... get a dog when they leave. Would this be an accurate assessment?
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Yeah, but remember that there hasn't been many graduates from the program. And a good deal of the graduates, like me, weren't even interested in keeping a dog. I knew that I would be going to college soon, like I am now, so I didn't want a dog, really. I just helped manage them a lot. Don't get me wrong, I loved those dogs... hell, I even tasted their dog food once when I was picking some up from Petsmart for them... just so that I knew that they were eating something tasty, lol. But yeah, some of the students just... didn't care for them.
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Don't get me wrong, I loved those dogs... hell, I even tasted their dog food once when I was picking some up from Petsmart for them... just so that I knew that they were eating something tasty, lol.
Any kid worth their smarts does taste the pet food at some point in their childhood.
I sure as hell did. :D
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Yeah, lol. A lot of times, it's curiosity... and there's not much that you can do about that one, lol.
btw, are there any other questions?
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Yeah, lol. A lot of times, it's curiosity... and there's not much that you can do about that one, lol.
btw, are there any other questions?
Hi there,
Actually, my question is: in the final analysis, do you think CALO helped you? And do you think it helped other boys you were with?
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i have a question..! did you even take the program in first off? and u sure everything your sayin is true? cause i dont think it is..i was the first kid to be put in pcs hold..ive been in a hold for 5 hours...they offer u water when ur in a hold..they ask u if ur ok and r willing to process..damn u people need to stop bashing on this place..it saved my fucking life
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i have a question..! did you even take the program in first off? and u sure everything your sayin is true? cause i dont think it is..i was the first kid to be put in pcs hold..ive been in a hold for 5 hours...they offer u water when ur in a hold..they ask u if ur ok and r willing to process..damn u people need to stop bashing on this place..it saved my fucking life
You heard it here first my friends. A "client" from Ken Hoooey's duckfarm was kept in a hold for five hours. Obscene.
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No its not..I was a danger to myself and to other people too..I wld of hurt sme1 if they didn't keep me in a hold I cld of hurt myself really bad
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Doubtful, people of that level of risk should be sent to a REAL treatment facility where they have appropriate levels of care. Not being held captive for five hours in a PCS hold.
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Che, how about listening to funsize and not dissing what he says? You might learn something. I find it interesting that he has a positive perspective on the experience at this point.
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maybe funsize ought to listen to what he's saying. If he really thought long and hard maybe he's bridge that gap at coming to the common sense conclusion that he ought to be furious over the way he was treated.
A certain cognizant dissonance at play, rather frighteningly so.
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Whooter, you have one last chance to get it right before being banned from this forum. Get it together or face the consequences.
Why are you threatening people, che? Are you drunk? Get what right? Last chance to do what? Are you going to cry to psy and Ginger because I didnt agree with you like DJ did and try to get me banned?
What is wrong with you? You were the one bashing a survivor, funsize, because he was telling his story but it didnt align with your thinking. Are you going to try to get him banned too because he said the place helped him? That is really screwy, che, and totally unlike you. You use to write some crazy crap on here over the years, even erased over 900 of my posts during one of your tirades and no one tried to get you banned. We all understood. Why all the control issues?
Why the double standard all of a sudden?
It didn't sound like an "attack" on funsize to me. I'm sure he can handle it... I get a worse earful at the local pharmacy just for asking a (presumed) stupid question.
On the other hand, it sounds a bit like program proponents who have little better to do with their time and focus than to scream "discrimination" at every opportunity ... are trying to steer focus away from more cogent topics at hand.
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No its not..I was a danger to myself and to other people too..I wld of hurt sme1 if they didn't keep me in a hold I cld of hurt myself really bad
Why was it so necessary to keep you in a PCS hold (off and on?) for five hours? Seems like there was a real breakdown of the therapy of some sort, for such extreme measures to be utilized...
Do ya think things could possibly have been handled differently?
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I was the student that was thrown on her face for throwing a snow ball at a male staff member. I was not "allowed" my phone calls because my therapist told me that they would tell me when they wanted a call and told them that i would ask them for a call when i wanted one ( the therapist minuplated my adoptive parents into thinking that i didn't want to talk and vice versa)(reason i do believe money i was in programs for 2 years prior and it was payed with a trust fund( that and you can't get out of calo with out working with your family) . Phone calls were 15 minutes if you were lucky some staff would only let you get 10 or would lie to you about how long they talked to you "parents" first. Staff were never supposed to play fight with you, there were some staff that if they saw that you were play fighting a staff they would put you in a hold automatically because you were not being safe.alot of what the other student said is Bullshit. group was in your face, if your therapist did like something there was no take you off to the side and talk to you nicely about it, they would embarass you and make you break down. and afterward you felt like an outsider. if you have any questions that i could answer feel more then free to ask them.
Jennifer Michael
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Explain these group thingies a bit more.
Also, what happened after you bailed? Where did you end up? I remember trying to communicate with your parents via email to convince them to not send you to another program. Don't think they much listened though. Got like 2 emails total from them.. I think..
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Hello again,
Please do not refer to John and Rose as my parents, they are not, and have not acted like that for a very long time, with the programs their hearts have grown very cold and i do not believe that they are even concerned about what happens at these facilities. I did end up in other programs, thank you for trying to keep me out of them. I went back to Midwest Academy, my first program, and then to Eagle Quest. Staff members would humilate you in order to get a reaction from you that they thought was change. they would have groups until they felt that the situation was resolved, that could be for hours. staff were relentless. they would look for any reason to hold a group or a meeting with you and staff.
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Ah, good ol' conversions.
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Hello again,
Please do not refer to John and Rose as my parents, they are not, and have not acted like that for a very long time,
I was wondering what was up with Rose and John. Fair enough, are you ok with me referring to them as, "Those Douchebags"?
with the programs their hearts have grown very cold and i do not believe that they are even concerned about what happens at these facilities. I did end up in other programs, thank you for trying to keep me out of them. I went back to Midwest Academy, my first program, and then to Eagle Quest.
Christ.. I'm sorry to hear this.
Staff members would humilate you in order to get a reaction from you that they thought was change. they would have groups until they felt that the situation was resolved, that could be for hours. staff were relentless. they would look for any reason to hold a group or a meeting with you and staff.
Attack therapy. Again, I'm very very sorry to hear this.
How are you doing today and what are you doing with yourself?