Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I tell you what, this goes to show what Geezers we have all become if the hottest thing on this site in weeks is Social Security and taxes!

Let the debate roll on...

I am no expert on economics and I can't argue the numbers. All I know is, I have seen third world contries where the poor live in squalor and the rich live in walled compounds with private security. Greg, I think you're a great guy, but it's always the self-made who think they are god's gift, and that the reason the other poor schmuck didn't make it is because he's a lazy ass. And you may be right. I've met quite a few poor folks in my life, and many of them are lazy. I've met a lot of wealthty folks too, and many of them are lazy as well. There's a guy in my neighborhood, collects aluminum cans and scrap - works it like a job, rides his bike with a tin man made of cans on the handlebars - what's his story? Don't know, but he works hard every day. When I was in my early 20s, and making min. wage jobs, hell yeah, I couldn't pay for health insurance and all the niceties. I remember prayimg my checks would clear.

My mother is now dependant on SS. Lives in a subsidezed apartment, and scrapes along. She put herself through law school at age 42, after raising three kids in the suburbs. Ended up an alcoholic, and I wonder, was that her fault? It certainly wasn't because she was stupid or lazy. Her own father, a wheeler and dealer, an Idaho farm boy who fought his way to the top - owned his own businesses, had warehouses in New York, Chicago and Cleveland. Lived in a fine house, had the best of everything. Drank and smoked and ate himself to death at age 54, leaving next to nothing for his three children. I'm sure he would have argued against paying the same taxes that are now taking care of his daughter. I wonder if anyone appreciates the irony.

I'm not sure what the best social system is, but we have to provide for those who can't, while encouraging everyone to be their best. And some will never get off the dime. Hitler wanted to euthenize them. What's our solution?

Three springs...

Someone wrote a book called, The Real AA, or something like that. Meanwhile you can find a lot of info online.

In fact, I did a bunch of postings on here somewhere...

AA was based on an earlier, evangelical movement, called the Oxford Group in England, and Moral Re-armament in the US, and by various other names. It was founded by Frank Buchanon, and they were also called Buchananites. Well-to-do brits would ge together and have meetings, and used many AA principals including anonymity, moral inventories, etc. They wanted to have a personal relationship with god thru fellowship, confession, and striving for 'moral purity.' Of course, it became a cultish movement. Breakaway members, I believe including Bill W., founded AA, using many of the same ingredients. Fascinating.

I'm going to take the long view and say that the Seed was an inevitable reaction to the counterculture of the '60s - if it hadn't been Art, it would have been someone else. And even without Synanon, AA provided a quasi-religious framework that can be used, and perhaps abused, by anyone who wants to set up their own AA-style group. I understand that AA is against this, and is supposed to be non-political, and non-personality, but look at the worship of founder Bob W. Anyway, someone somewhere would have tried to save kids from drugs, and althought the Seed had issues and may have been fundamentally wrong (as proven by the abuses in later copy-cat programs) I tnink Art genuinely cared and thought he was doing the right thing. Sure, ego and control played into the Seed's strength and weaknesses, and we can argue all day over whether individual people were helped or harmed, (and I think both things occured) but whatever your view is, we were a part of a big social phenomena that is still ongoing today. Personal animosity towards Art is going to happen, but from what I've read on other forums, the Seed was a comparitive piece of cake. Not to minimize anyone's problems with the Seed, but we, as a society, bought into this, or at least our parents did, and until we have some sanity about drugs, (and sex and rock and roll - er, rap) will be in this pickle for a while. I have a one year old now and do I want her deeply involved in drug culture? No. Do I want her to be a rigid, religious fanatic anti-counterculture crusader? No. I want a balanced, thoughtful, open person who enjoys her life and has a sense of humor. I hope she has good friends and family. So - I digress, but that's what we were all looking for thru the Seed - security and belonging and hope.

I remember I was evaluated for admission by a member of the faculty at Case - Cleveland's most prestigious school. And Jim Carney, a prominent Cleveland attorney, was a frequent visitor to the Cleveland Seed.

Hey, that's great. What a small world we live in! Marks' a great guy, very soft spoken and bright, sort of the shadow side of his kiind of punkish music, which has gotten more mellow over time, too.

Seth and Johnny G, you guys were hard-core smokers - I remember Seth rolling out of bed and lighting up. Kools. Johnny G, you had Merits or something else vile like that. I smoked Kools when I worked with big Jim H. at the plating company, 'cause he did. Later I was a respiratory therapist and I pretty much quit. When I was 30, I married a young woman from art school - it was cool to smoke and she would light up in the shower! I finally got her to quit - about the same time she asked for a divorce.

I smoked a bit a year or two ago - like one a day or so. I started to see myself get hooked again, it's so so easy.

Seth, I am glad you did OK post heart attack. One of my coworkers went the same route, and he no longer smokes!

Seth you definitely had the hair for it. Me too, these days!