Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: wantingtohelp on June 20, 2005, 07:30:00 PM

Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: wantingtohelp on June 20, 2005, 07:30:00 PM
I am currently looking toward employment in a number of these 'wilderness therapy' programs.  (alldredge acad, suws, cfreer, anasazi, etc.)  I've been reading a number of the posts here on this board, and I understand it's impossible for any organization/program to please everyone.  And with all due respect to those who have been abused/neglected at these programs, are there any programs that can (allthough arguablly) endorsed by members of this site?   -thanks
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2005, 07:58:00 PM
No and if you have any human decency you would not work for any of those places after you read this site.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2005, 07:59:00 PM
My opinion (you asked for it): I would suggest solicitation of opinions outside of this site.  Most here have had horrible experiences with a horribly coersive program and have a "slight" bias against behavior modification through anything guised as "therapy".

Analogy:  No 9/11 survivor or family member would be differentiate between "good" Al Quaeda vs "bad".  No one of Jewish heritage would say that there were "good" nazis and "bad" ones.  

Your own findings subsequent to researching the facilities of interest should be much more valuable than any information you glean from vets of STRAIGHT and/or similiar programs.

Personally speaking, I don't endorse any programs as I do not spend any time researching nor making judgements on who is good, bad, or indifferent.  I don't have a troubled teen that is a candidate for such programs, and I am highly allergic (secondary to my own shitty experience in such a program) to anything that modifies a persons choice of behavior.

My closing opinion, if you really want to make a difference in the life of a child and they decisions they make?  Be a teacher and nix the idea of a wilderness therapy.
 :tup:
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Antigen on June 20, 2005, 08:05:00 PM
I have to second that. I've read bad things about every program you mention. Every one of them seeks and promises to do just what the last anon says; to forcibly change the kids' chosen behavior against their will.

That presents a clear conflict of interests. An authentic therapeutic relationship is based upon trust. Coercion destroys trust. Pick one. Do you want to coerce people for a living, or do you want to help people for a living. You can't do both. They're mutually exclusive concepts.

The right of self-defense is the first law of nature . . and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.

--St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries

Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2005, 08:11:00 PM
Some of the worst staff I knew, had the attitude they were 'helping' children by what they were doing.

If you want to help, don't work for these programs.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2005, 08:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-06-20 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If you want to help, don't work for these programs."


Amen!!
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: 001010 on June 20, 2005, 11:03:00 PM
Quote

On 2005-06-20 16:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My opinion (you asked for it): I would suggest solicitation of opinions outside of this site.  Most here have had horrible experiences with a horribly coersive program and have a "slight" bias against behavior modification through anything guised as "therapy".



Analogy:  No 9/11 survivor or family member would be differentiate between "good" Al Quaeda vs "bad".  No one of Jewish heritage would say that there were "good" nazis and "bad" ones.  



Your own findings subsequent to researching the facilities of interest should be much more valuable than any information you glean from vets of STRAIGHT and/or similiar programs.



Personally speaking, I don't endorse any programs as I do not spend any time researching nor making judgements on who is good, bad, or indifferent.  I don't have a troubled teen that is a candidate for such programs, and I am highly allergic (secondary to my own shitty experience in such a program) to anything that modifies a persons choice of behavior.



My closing opinion, if you really want to make a difference in the life of a child and they decisions they make?  Be a teacher and nix the idea of a wilderness therapy.

 :nworthy:

To the extent that a society limits its government to policing functions which curb the individuals who engage in aggressive and criminal actions, and conducts its economic affairs on the basis of free and willing exchange, to that extent domestic peace prevails. When a society departs from this norm, its governing class begins, in effect, to make war upon the rest of the nation. A situation is created in which everyone is victimized by everyone else under the fiction of each living at the expense of all.

--Edmund A. Opitz

Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: LeighBright on June 20, 2005, 11:15:00 PM
:silly: yeah I'd like to endorse Straight Inc. by the Sea:

http://fornits.com/SIBS/ (http://fornits.com/SIBS/)

 :silly:  :silly:  :roll:

I think you should go work there  :tup:
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Fr. Cassian on June 21, 2005, 12:57:00 AM
An excellent suggestion, Leigh. It's great to see that you're working your program and spreading the word about SIBS. You've seen the light after all!
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2005, 04:08:00 PM
you spelled "question" wrong.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2005, 12:14:00 PM
I've been working in the Wilderness portion of Alldredge for nearly a year now.  After spending the last hour reading some of the posts about the Academy, I can see that it has changed a great deal since its inception.  The people that I work with are all caring, dedicated individuals who glady put their own comfort out of mind in order to better work with students.  The Alldredge therapeutic model does make some assumptions based on moral high grounds (ie- it's not good to attempt to intimidate people physically, manipulate them emotionally, compulsively lie or steal) and does attempt to show youth that a negative life pattern can form from arrests, fistfights, etc.  Many of the contributors to this forum seem to think that discouraging youth from these behaviours is limiting their ingrained freedoms, however, it is Alldredge's belief that choices in life are what matters- only some choices can limit choices down the road.

Alldredge is not a Behaviour mod program, nor TOUGHLOVE... at least not anymore.  And no, students are not trained in Search and Rescue so they can track down their erstwhile comrades who are on the run (that one gave me a great laugh).  The majority of what I have read on the program on this forum seems to have been written by people who have never attended, and obviously know next to nothing about the program.  If you are seriously interested in any program, I would advise you to contact the program itself and even set up a visitation.  That way is most likely to provide you with the real information you're looking for.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: OverLordd on June 30, 2005, 12:19:00 PM
I have tried doing that for a few programs, guess what, they dont want us, CSA would not even e-mail me back, I was respectful, I did not flame, I did not curse or anything, I just asked to speak to some one in PR and they ignored me.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2005, 12:26:00 PM
http://http://www.alldredgeacademy.org/programs_mythical_village.html

Quote
Programs:                            Communal Village.                            

                                                 

                               

                                   

                                      Alldredge Academy

                        The                        Communal Village is a                            unique personal growth environment.

                         
The                              Village was created after studying indigenous cultures                              and discovering universal patterns in mental, emotional,                              and spiritual health.

                         
                              The Village is located along a ½ mile shore                              line at the confluence of 2 small rivers. The students                              live in a community based system of interdependency.                              The culture of the village contrasts dramatically                              with their home adolescent culture. Community interests                              supersede individual interests. Each student is ?needed?                              by the community and directly affects the well being                              of others. Secrets, dreams, fears, and hopes are shared                              in groups and with individuals.

                         
The                              rite of passage consists of a series of experiences                              and knowledge to move from being a victim to a responsible,                              pro-active agent. Students learn in new ways, from                              literal to symbolic to mythical (the merging of literal                              and symbol), and to instantaneous (intuition, conscience,                              inspiration, etc.).

                         
                              They are engaged daily in the curriculum of the ?winds                              and journeys? which incorporates various archetypes                              into their new identities.

                         
Transformation                              comes from a combination of talking, listening, doing,                              reviewing, and wondering.

                         
                              Students spend hours building a personal drum and                              at least 2 hours daily practicing and playing rhythms                              with the rest of the community.

                         
                              Change in the village is defined as releasing, recapturing,                              and transforming. This includes conflicting beliefs,                              addictions, disturbing emotions, and detrimental behaviors.                              

                         
Students                              develop and practice successful behaviors to carry                              throughout their lives which will help them stay connected                              to honorable purposes, virtue, and a higher power.

                         
                              At the heart of it all is discovering a life purpose,                              a connection to a higher power (called the ?Source?                              in the village), and virtuous behavior and intent.      
   

This sounds like mind rape.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2005, 07:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-06-30 09:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I've been working in the Wilderness portion of Alldredge for nearly a year now.  After spending the last hour reading some of the posts about the Academy, I can see that it has changed a great deal since its inception.  The people that I work with are all caring, dedicated individuals who glady put their own comfort out of mind in order to better work with students.  The Alldredge therapeutic model does make some assumptions based on moral high grounds (ie- it's not good to attempt to intimidate people physically, manipulate them emotionally, compulsively lie or steal) and does attempt to show youth that a
negative life pattern can form from arrests, fistfights, etc.  Many of the contributors to this forum seem to think that discouraging youth from these behaviours is limiting their ingrained freedoms, however, it is Alldredge's belief that choices in life are what matters- only some choices can limit choices down the road.



Alldredge is not a Behaviour mod program, nor TOUGHLOVE... at least not anymore.  And no, students are not trained in Search and Rescue so they can track down their erstwhile comrades who are on the run (that one gave me a great laugh).  The majority of what I have read on the program on this forum seems to have been written by people who have never attended, and obviously know next to nothing about the program.  If you are seriously interested in any program, I would advise you to contact the program itself and even set up a visitation.  That way is most likely to provide you with the real information you're looking for."


what a crock of shit.   Oh please, now I see you are reformed!  Please save my childs life oh wise one.


FUCK YOU.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2005, 08:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-06-30 09:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I've been working in the Wilderness portion of Alldredge for nearly a year now.  After spending the last hour reading some of the posts about the Academy, I can see that it has changed a great deal since its inception.  The people that I work with are all caring, dedicated individuals who glady put their own comfort out of mind in order to better work with students.  The Alldredge therapeutic model does make some assumptions based on moral high grounds (ie- it's not good to attempt to intimidate people physically, manipulate them emotionally, compulsively lie or steal) and does attempt to show youth that a negative life pattern can form from arrests, fistfights, etc.  Many of the contributors to this forum seem to think that discouraging youth from these behaviours is limiting their ingrained freedoms, however, it is Alldredge's belief that choices in life are what matters- only some choices can limit choices down the road.



Alldredge is not a Behaviour mod program, nor TOUGHLOVE... at least not anymore.  And no, students are not trained in Search and Rescue so they can track down their erstwhile comrades who are on the run (that one gave me a great laugh).  The majority of what I have read on the program on this forum seems to have been written by people who have never attended, and obviously know next to nothing about the program.  If you are seriously interested in any program, I would advise you to contact the program itself and even set up a visitation.  That way is most likely to provide you with the real information you're looking for."


All of the program supporers claim this. That we are all just a bunch of loons on the net with no connnection with programs. Lets get this straight first of all, most of us wouldnt be on here if we werent effected by a program somehow. The fact you are trying to sell your idea of a program on here shows your ignorance of this forum.

I do think most of us agree on one thing though... we all dispise people like you.
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Antigen on July 01, 2005, 12:44:00 PM
I wonder if any of the functioning native organizations would want to take issue w/ this? They're taking some of the worst practices alleged to have been done as part of tribal organization, leaving out all of the good, wrapping it up in a newage quick-fix package and selling it as native culture. What a cruel joke!

Redemption: Deliverance of sinners from the penalty of their sins through the murder of their deity against whom they sinned.
--Ambrose Bierce

Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2005, 01:08:00 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe send a letter to someone like Winona LaDuke. I started reading her novel, by the way, a few years ago. It was too entirely emotional for me to get too far, because it (at least the beginning) was all about how Indian kids were taken from their families and sent away to government schools where they were not allowed to speak their own language. I really took it to heart because of Straight. That book is called Last Standing Woman.

First they came after the children of Native Americans, and no one said anything. Then they came after our own children...
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: 001010 on July 01, 2005, 01:28:00 PM
Last Standing Woman, Winona LaDuke

Thanks!  :wave:

All contemporary religions and churches, all and every kind of religious organization, Marxism has always viewed as organs of bourgeois reaction, serving as a defense of exploitation and the doping of the working-classes.
--Nikolai Lenin, Russian revolutionary

Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: webcrawler on July 01, 2005, 02:08:00 PM
I also recommend "Lakota Woman" by Mary Crow Dog. A very great read that confronts issues like this. Gives a lot of details about here work in the American Indian Movement (AIM).
Title: So, here's the questtion.....
Post by: Antigen on July 01, 2005, 02:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-07-01 10:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

First they came after the children of Native Americans, and no one said anything. Then they came after our own children...


Yeah, I've read a bit about that too. In fact, right now I'm reading that book "The folly of Empire" that somebody recomended over here http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=24&1 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10392&forum=24&1)

There's a bit about public and official thinking and policy toward the "savage races" and their "fallow lands" up to the turn of the century. It's quite enlightening. And I don't think you're off one bit in your comparison. Face it, we're still working a political social war. Every social war has it's scapegoats. So who are the scapegoats? Kids? Most of them? Drug war dissenters? Iraq war dissenters? To some degree, Muslims? Who else? The beautiful thing about scapegoats is that, all humans being posessed of the same basic nature and flaws, anybody weak enough to have to take it can be made into a handy scapegoat.

Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
James Madison