Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Vision Quest => Topic started by: Deborah on January 08, 2006, 02:13:00 PM

Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Deborah on January 08, 2006, 02:13:00 PM
If you have others, please add them. I'd appreciate links to stories. Thanks


1980
24-Nov   Eric S. Schibley   17
24-Nov   Bernard Reefer      
24-Nov   Robert Zimmerman      
24-Nov   Charles Lucas         
24-Nov   James Lamb
24-Nov   Robert D. Erwin   15
24-Nov   Lyle Foodroy      

1982
11-Sep   Tammy Edmiston   
16-Sep   Leon Anger
April   Mario Cano   16   
June   Danny Lewis   16

1990
John Vincent Garrison   18

1994
16-Dec   Carlos Ruiz   13

1995
28-Jun   Dawnne Takeuchi   18
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-01-08 12:11 ]
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Troll Control on January 08, 2006, 02:19:00 PM
Just what you have listed here is a HIDEOUS record of negligence and abuse. :scared:

Is this place still operating?  If so, HOW?
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on January 08, 2006, 02:52:00 PM
Shinaul McGraw died at New Directions 2nd Chance.  Is/was that a VisonQuest program?  What kind of a program was it?  Anyone have any details on it?
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Deborah on January 08, 2006, 03:15:00 PM
Thanks for pointing out the error.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on March 10, 2006, 03:58:00 AM
all the deaths that happened in 1980 was from a ship wreck and was ruled accidential by both parties.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Nihilanthic on March 10, 2006, 04:54:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-03-10 00:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"all the deaths that happened in 1980 was from a ship wreck and was ruled accidential by both parties."


Got some proof to back that up?
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2006, 03:43:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-03-10 00:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"all the deaths that happened in 1980 was from a ship wreck and was ruled accidential by both parties."


Well,that clears up 1980,but what about the deaths in subsequent years?
I call it "Child Murder".
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: The Elan Reporter on March 13, 2006, 07:19:00 PM
No there were others that died. A teenage girl died of dehydration even after she told staff she was thirsty and exhausted. I cant remember her name off hand, but I do believe this was made public by I forget what network, I think I might of seen it on A&E.

There were also other instances where children in VQ were physically abused and in some cases beaten real bad.

VQ is no joke folks, I was in it and escaped not long after arriving at that place.

The people that run it are interested in only one thing (Money), they will mistreat all that oppose them.

They all need to burn in hell!
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on March 19, 2006, 08:39:00 AM
Michelle Sutton, dead at age 15, Summit Quest
Kristen Chase, dead at age 16, Challenger
Paul Choy, dead at age 16, Rite of Passage
Aaron Bacon, dead at age 16, Northstar
Dawnne Takeuchi, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Lorenzo Johnson, dead at age 17, Arizona Boys Ranch
Carlos Ruiz, dead at age 13, VisionQuest
Mario Cano, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
John Vincent Garrison, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Bernard Reefer, dead, VisionQuest
Robert Zimmerman, dead, VisionQuest
Charles Lucas, dead, VisionQuest
James Lamb, dead, VisionQuest
Tammy Edmiston, dead, VisionQuest
Leon Anger, dead, VisionQuest
Latasha Bush, dead at 15, Daystar Residential Treatment Center
Charles Collins, Jr., dead at age 15, Crossroads for Youth
Jamie Young, dead at age 13, Ramsey Canyon
Randy Steele, dead at age 9,
Laurel Ridge Psychiatric Hospital
John Avila, dead, Rocky Mountain Academy
Danny Lewis, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
Nicholas Contreras, dead at age 16, Arizona Boys Ranch
Edith Campos, dead at age 15, Desert Hills
Matt Toppi, dead at age 17, Robert Land Academy
Chirs Brown, dead at age 16, Robert Land Academy
Eric David Schibley, dead at age 17, VisionQuest
Robert Doyle Erwin, dead at age 15, VisionQuest
Lyle Foodroy, dead, VisionQuest
Gina Score, dead at age 14, State Training School (South Dakota)
Bryan Dale Alexander, dead at age 18, Texas Correctional Services
Michael Wiltsie, dead at age 12, Eckert Youth Alternatives
Tristan Sovern, dead at age 16, Charter Behavioral Health System
Robert Rollins, dead at age 12, Devereaux School
Andrew McClain, dead at age 11, Elmcrest Psychiatric Hospital
Anthony Haynes, dead at age 14, Buffalo Soldiers Boot Camp
Ian August, dead at age 14, Skyline Journey
Charles "Chase" Moody, dead at age 17, The Brown School
Roberto Reyes, dead at age 15, Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp
Travis Parker, dead at age13, Appalachian Wilderness Camp
Christening "Mikie" Garcia, dead at age12, Star Ranch
Linda Harris, dead at age 14, Chad Youth Enhancement Center
Martin Lee Anderson, dead at age 14, Bay County Sheriff's boot camp, Florida

From:
http://moral-highground.blogspot.com/ (http://moral-highground.blogspot.com/)
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2006, 12:56:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-03-13 16:19:00, The Elan Reporter wrote:

"No there were others that died. A teenage girl died of dehydration even after she told staff she was thirsty and exhausted. I cant remember her name off hand, but I do believe this was made public by I forget what network, I think I might of seen it on A&E.



There were also other instances where children in VQ were physically abused and in some cases beaten real bad.



VQ is no joke folks, I was in it and escaped not long after arriving at that place.



The people that run it are interested in only one thing (Money), they will mistreat all that oppose them.



They all need to burn in hell!
"
Would you say VQ is worst than Elan?
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2006, 12:57:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-03-19 05:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Michelle Sutton, dead at age 15, Summit Quest

Kristen Chase, dead at age 16, Challenger

Paul Choy, dead at age 16, Rite of Passage

Aaron Bacon, dead at age 16, Northstar

Dawnne Takeuchi, dead at age 18, VisionQuest

Lorenzo Johnson, dead at age 17, Arizona Boys Ranch

Carlos Ruiz, dead at age 13, VisionQuest

Mario Cano, dead at age 16, VisionQuest

John Vincent Garrison, dead at age 18, VisionQuest

Bernard Reefer, dead, VisionQuest

Robert Zimmerman, dead, VisionQuest

Charles Lucas, dead, VisionQuest

James Lamb, dead, VisionQuest

Tammy Edmiston, dead, VisionQuest

Leon Anger, dead, VisionQuest

Latasha Bush, dead at 15, Daystar Residential Treatment Center

Charles Collins, Jr., dead at age 15, Crossroads for Youth

Jamie Young, dead at age 13, Ramsey Canyon

Randy Steele, dead at age 9,

Laurel Ridge Psychiatric Hospital

John Avila, dead, Rocky Mountain Academy

Danny Lewis, dead at age 16, VisionQuest

Nicholas Contreras, dead at age 16, Arizona Boys Ranch

Edith Campos, dead at age 15, Desert Hills

Matt Toppi, dead at age 17, Robert Land Academy

Chirs Brown, dead at age 16, Robert Land Academy

Eric David Schibley, dead at age 17, VisionQuest

Robert Doyle Erwin, dead at age 15, VisionQuest

Lyle Foodroy, dead, VisionQuest

Gina Score, dead at age 14, State Training School (South Dakota)

Bryan Dale Alexander, dead at age 18, Texas Correctional Services

Michael Wiltsie, dead at age 12, Eckert Youth Alternatives

Tristan Sovern, dead at age 16, Charter Behavioral Health System

Robert Rollins, dead at age 12, Devereaux School

Andrew McClain, dead at age 11, Elmcrest Psychiatric Hospital

Anthony Haynes, dead at age 14, Buffalo Soldiers Boot Camp

Ian August, dead at age 14, Skyline Journey

Charles "Chase" Moody, dead at age 17, The Brown School

Roberto Reyes, dead at age 15, Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp

Travis Parker, dead at age13, Appalachian Wilderness Camp

Christening "Mikie" Garcia, dead at age12, Star Ranch

Linda Harris, dead at age 14, Chad Youth Enhancement Center

Martin Lee Anderson, dead at age 14, Bay County Sheriff's boot camp, Florida



From:

http://moral-highground.blogspot.com/ (http://moral-highground.blogspot.com/)"
::noway::  ::dove::
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2006, 07:01:00 PM
i know that when all the kids died in 80 it was out in the ocean, it was a typhoon or something, they stopped doing those quests after that had happened. I was also in vision quest, wilderness camp west in the late 80's.  and yuor right it is no joke.  they say that they are restraining you but it goes way beyong restraint.....  i have seen many kids get hurt pretty badly, including myself, i remember two staff members that were the worst, irving solomon and felix (can not remember last name) i was there for a long time, did many quests and saw alot . and it is scary to hear that it has only gotten worse.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: wild thing on April 27, 2006, 09:27:00 PM
Isn't Vision Quest now being staffed by former CEDU-ites, David LePere, Greg Hitchcock with Paula (slut) Riggs as the "Admission Director."
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: tbuster1269 on April 30, 2006, 08:24:00 PM
I really do not know if I should say this, but I  worked for visionquest about 10 years ago.  I was a drill instructor at their boot & hat camp in Pennsylvania.  I remember a boy that died there in March or April 1997.  We were told the boy had a malfunctioning heart and there was no way it could be detected.  It really hit the personnel and the kids that were there pretty hard.  I eventually left because of it.  I was there to help these kids, not hurt them.  I am a former Marine and remember the camp being set up just like Marine boot Camp.  I can honestly say that I never took part or saw any unnecessary physical contact with the kids.  Everytime there was a physical altercation, it was because one of the kids would put there hands on a staff member or would blatantly refuse to follow orders.  Of all the staff members I met, whose names I cannot remember, none of them were there to hurt the kids.  They were interested in the kids future and fixing whatever was wrong with them.  The reason I even am on this site is because I have a friend who has a completely, utterly out of control child that needs to be given some direction.  I was totally unaware of these deaths.  Is the place still open?  Does anybody know
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Antigen on April 30, 2006, 11:51:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-27 18:27:00, wild thing wrote:

"Isn't Vision Quest now being staffed by former CEDU-ites, David LePere, Greg Hitchcock with Paula (slut) Riggs as the "Admission Director.""


I don't know. Anybody have any documentation on that? I do know that some new place called Right Way in Pennsylvania is starting out w/ refugees from the Family Foundation.

Are we seeing a trend here? The denizens of the private sector gulags fleeing to the safer public sector?

When we talk to god, it's prayer. When god talks to us, it's schizophrenia.
--Lily Tomlin, American actress

Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on May 10, 2006, 03:48:00 AM
I also worked for the VisionQuest Hat Corps in Pennsylvania.  CCY.  And please don't misunderstand me as condoning or excusing the deaths that have occured.  I was shocked to see how many kids have died there.  It's tragic.  However, the kids that died in the ocean was definitely from an accident resulting from the weather.  And you have to remember that the kids placed at these things are not angels.  They are highly manipulative and many times violent.  When you read that a kid said he needed to stop doing something or have a drink, it seems like a no brainer.  The kid says he needs to stop, and so he should be allowed to stop.  But there are often only 3, 2, or 1 staff working with upwards of 20 kids.  Kids say they need to stop doing things all the time, so it's very hard as a staff member to gauge when somebody is telling the truth and when somebody is just trying to get out of doing something.  As far as bad restraints go, yes there are staff who go too far, but a lot of these kids aren't the small helpless kids you think of.  When I worked there, there was one kid who jumped a drill instructor, choked him out and attempted to steal his car.  Again, I'm not trying to excuse anything, but the issue is not black and white.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on May 10, 2006, 08:02:00 AM
And what are your credentials and experience working with alleged 'juvenile delinquents'?
The staff didn't check the weather report that day, before taking these 'violent' kids out?
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on May 12, 2006, 08:18:00 PM
SeaQuest took place on a boat in the middle of the ocean, much like college Semesters at Sea.  For the most part, they're in the ocean; it's not a matter of going out for a couple hours a day.  And it's ludicrous to think that staff would willingly and with premeditation, go out on the ocean when a storm was coming.  
  I don't believe I ever used the term "juvenile delinquents."  My credentials are that I have worked with at-risk and adjudicated youth for five years, and I have a master's degree.  I have no wish to get into an arguement with you about the greatness of VisionQuest nor the infallibility of its staff.  It was my intention only to add another perspective to what appears to be an intelligent discussion.  
  I care very much about the kids I have worked with and have sought always to do nothing more than get them home with the tools to stay there.  I consider every former kid I have worked with that is now in jail or prison a personal loss.  I am not some heartless bully on a power trip who looks down on kids in placement.  I have always tried to show them respect and dignity and based on the respect that I generally earn from them, I would say I am pretty successful with that.  I resent the implication that I don't care about them or look down upon them in any way.  Many of the kids I've worked with were some of the most intelligent and all around greatest people I've ever met.  But, don't get it twisted, they can still be extremely manipulative, volatile, and yes, violent.  My only point is that the issue is not as black and white as it may appear.  
   I look forward to continuing in an intelligent discussion about the issue and hope that there will be no further personal attacks.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: AtomicAnt on May 13, 2006, 02:05:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-30 17:24:00, tbuster1269 wrote:

"I really do not know if I should say this, but I  worked for visionquest about 10 years ago.  I was a drill instructor at their boot & hat camp in Pennsylvania.  I remember a boy that died there in March or April 1997.  We were told the boy had a malfunctioning heart and there was no way it could be detected.  It really hit the personnel and the kids that were there pretty hard.  I eventually left because of it.  I was there to help these kids, not hurt them.  I am a former Marine and remember the camp being set up just like Marine boot Camp.  I can honestly say that I never took part or saw any unnecessary physical contact with the kids.  Everytime there was a physical altercation, it was because one of the kids would put there hands on a staff member or would blatantly refuse to follow orders.  Of all the staff members I met, whose names I cannot remember, none of them were there to hurt the kids.  They were interested in the kids future and fixing whatever was wrong with them.  The reason I even am on this site is because I have a friend who has a completely, utterly out of control child that needs to be given some direction.  I was totally unaware of these deaths.  Is the place still open?  Does anybody know"


The part about a 'physical altercation' for 'blatently refusing to follow orders' is a red flag here. How physical would they get; presssure point pain infliction, takedowns, restraints? I don't think I'd like anyone getting physical with my kids just because they refuse to do something they were ordered to do.

I don't like the idea of boot camps for teens at all. There is not much research, but most of what there is states boot camps have a higher recidivsm rate than detention centers or other alternatives and that boot camps can often do more emotional harm than good to already vulnerable and disturbed teenagers.

Teens are just not old enough or mature enough to 'get' the lessons that boot camp tries to instill and come away with the belief that the DIs are just being mean to the kids for the sake of being mean and forcing them to obey.  They come out of these programs angry.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on May 13, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
While that was not my post, I think I can answer some of your questions.  Yes, a physical altercation, in other words a fight between kids, is a reason why someone might be restrained.  The state of Pennsylvania considers it a form of abuse to allow kids to fight in placement.  Failure to follow instruction is not a justification for a restraint.  However, depending upon what the order was, it can be justification for an escort.  This can lead to an aggressive response from a trooper, which is justification for a restraint (as far as policy and the law goes, I'm not making a value judgement on that personally).  As far as whether teens are mature enough for boot camp and their reaction to it, I have to respectfully disagree with you.  I was 17 when I went through boot camp (in the Army).  I was able to succeed as are most kids who go through placement boot camps.  Whether it's for the military or placement, boot camp is a process, depending on the quality of their DI's (and this is definitely problematic) kids come away with all the benefits and knowledge that boot camp is meant to instill.  When I worked in a non boot camp facility, I had many kids that had been through boot camp and they viewed it much the same as I viewed my Army boot camp experience, they were happy as hell to leave, but looked back on it with a fondness.  Boot camps do have a high recidivism rate, although I would be very suprised if it was higher than detention centers, which operate very much like jails with almost no treatment component and are generally used only to house youth for short periods of time--in other words they are used for weekend sanctions or as holding areas during court, or after court until the youth is given a permanent placement--the problem with boot camps as far as recidivism goes, as is the case with all placements, is that it provides a structural framework within which a youth can experience success, and yes feel safe.  
Upon completion, they are sent home with no further support, and so the support system under which they experienced the change is gone, and they're right back in the same environment that created their problems in the first place.  There has got to be a greater emphasis on in-community supports.  I'm not talking about punitive things but after-school rec and arts programs, things like that.  Providing kids with a continued environment in their communities where they can succeed, feel cared about, and mentored is the ONLY way to instill lasting change and stop the cycle.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: youthadvocate on May 13, 2006, 05:41:00 PM
just so everyone knows, I am the second ex-visonquest drill instructor, and poster of the previous post.  I just signed up, so i wanted everyone to know that my posts will be under this screen name from now on.  Love the discussion, and I hope we can come to some well thought consensus on what changes should be made.  The system is badly broken, and I'm down for helping to get it changed.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: AtomicAnt on May 14, 2006, 11:28:00 AM
Florida Boot Camps recidivism = 87 percent
Missouri State JDCs recidivism = 32 percnet
 
The receidivism rate varies greatly by State and specific program. Missouri's program involves using smaller, decentralized facilities that are either in or near the youths' home neighborhoods. They treat kids like kids. They don't mix hard core offenders with first time offenders and keep the younger kids away from older kids.

Florida, on the other hand, has the second largest population of juvenile offenders incarcerated (California has the highest). Many kids are in adult jails. The State just passed measures closing their boot camps after 14 year old Martin Anderson was killed in one by DIs. The death was video taped and released to the press. You can find details on this very easily be Googling the kid's name. The Miami Tribune has run many articles about it.

Amnesty International and HRW (Human Rights Watch) have both condemned the California Juvenile systems for pervasive child abuse and human rights violations. In one prison, kids were kept in tiny solitary cells for 23.5 hours per day and the other 30 minutes were spent in cages on the roof.

I agree that more community based, post camp support is needed, but go to
 http://www.rickross.com/reference/teenb ... oot11.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/teenboot/teenboot11.html)

and look up the Baltimore Sun expose about Maryland boot camps. The extensive after care was largely unattended by the hard core, ghetto kids in the program. Most ended up in adult jail. Read how the kids were treated and know that Maryland closed all their boot camps as a result of the Sun's articles.

BTW, I grew up in Crawford County, PA. I am very familiar with Venango, County.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: youthadvocate on May 14, 2006, 03:50:00 PM
I read the article and the program sounds horrible.  I don't know who thought that it would be a good idea to abuse kids to "help" them, which is exactly what that is, but I think they should go through that program and see how well it helps them.  They don't do that sort of thing in actual military boot camps, I think it's a horrible idea to do in juvenile boot camps.  
I'm with you on the California thing, too.  The California Youth Authority is one of the most jacked up entities known to man.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2006, 09:30:00 PM
I tend to agree with AA. i am not doubting the fact that the marine drill instructor wants to help kids, and i feel bad for the guy because he seems to be deeply personally effected by the incident, but the philosophy behind these places seems so wrong. If you have a kid who is angry and does not want to be there, of course they are not going to follow orders. This is why trying to make them helps nobody.
If the place is understaffed and the kids are there because they are at risk, it is a system which is asking for trouble. Instead of hiring ex marines (even ones with their hearts in the right place) why would these places not hire people wth specific specialist training? Or why not professional counsellors and youth workers there with the drill instructors? What can drilling a kid teach them about thinking through the consequences of their actions anyway?
most guys who go into the miltary are there because they want to be and are attracted to a career with structure and order. This is not the case with delinquent kids. Tough love is not the only answer!
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2006, 12:18:00 PM
Exactly. There is a huge difference between a volunteer recruit who is thinking past the boot camp towards a career in the military, and a disturbed teenager forced there. There is also a huge difference in boot camps for kids and real military boot camps.

These kid camps force confrontation with kids. Kids are kids. They don't have the self control of adults, yet. There is bound to be trouble.

Boot camps for kids appear to work only because they use fear and intimidation. Forced compliance does mean real internal change.

I understand the rational that believes boot camp is a team building and confidence building experience. The problem is that the teenagers do not. They don't see the experience in the same way. They see it as arbitraty punishment and DIs being mean for the sake of being mean.

Teens are 'fairness experts' in their own minds. Group punishment is not team building for them. By nature teens are self-centered. They are supposed to be at this age as they are focused on figuring out who they are and where they fit. This is normal. So, holding the group responsible is viewed as holding 'me responsible for someone else's actions.' To a teen, this just unfair.

It is a totally different psychology and must approached that way. Ex marines and other military folk don't get this. Because they successfully completed basic training and had good careers, they want to share their feelings of success and pass this on. What they forget is that not everyone views the world the same way, nor can they be forced to.

Personally, I have never been through a boot camp or program but I know with 100% certainty that the experience would have been harmful to me; because I know me. I also suspect that I am not the only one like me. So the one-size-fits-all approach just doesn't cut it.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: AtomicAnt on June 10, 2006, 12:19:00 PM
Quote
Exactly. There is a huge difference between a volunteer recruit who is thinking past the boot camp towards a career in the military, and a disturbed teenager forced there. There is also a huge difference in boot camps for kids and real military boot camps.

This was my post. I forgot to log in.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2006, 02:27:00 PM
***So, holding the group responsible is viewed as holding 'me responsible for someone else's actions.' To a teen, this just unfair.

Not just teens, anyone would see it as unfair.
That's like the police coming into a bar and arresting everyone because they didn't control the guy who drank too much.

There is one purpose for this technique- peer pressure/control. They're banking on the kid getting so much shit from his peers, who were punished for his mistakes, that he'll step in line. Makes their miserable job easier.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2006, 09:00:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-10 11:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"***So, holding the group responsible is viewed as holding 'me responsible for someone else's actions.' To a teen, this just unfair.



Not just teens, anyone would see it as unfair.

That's like the police coming into a bar and arresting everyone because they didn't control the guy who drank too much.



There is one purpose for this technique- peer pressure/control. They're banking on the kid getting so much shit from his peers, who were punished for his mistakes, that he'll step in line. Makes their miserable job easier.



"

I have to disagree with that. In an explicit team environment, if one member fails, it is because the team failed that one member. So, the entire team receives the consequences. The idea is to promote the idea that the team must support all of its members. I have never been in the Military, so it would be nice to have one of the DIs weigh in on this. I think soldiers are aware that this is the premise under which basic training takes place and so they are not as likely to become angry about it. In battle, their lives could depend on it.

If there is a time to be somewhere and one team member is late because he slept in, the team loses. The team has to take the responsibility to ensure everyone wakes up and is on time.

Whether this actually promotes unity in a team or not is debatable. They might end up hating the 'weaker' member/s. Or, they may become a close, tight knit team.

I have worked with departments where communication could be good like this. Co-workers would inform missing members (on vacation or traveling) with information they needed for the first day back. They would send e-mail or leave messages on home phones. Other departments I have been in don't and the unsuspecting co-worker might come to work inappropriately dressed, or blind-sided by a morning meeting,for example, because they did not 'get the memo.'
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: AtomicAnt on June 11, 2006, 09:03:00 AM
Quote
I have to disagree with that. In an explicit team environment ...

Once again, I forget to log in. That was me.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2006, 09:21:00 AM
the idea of any di trying to provoke a delinquent kid also strikes me as pretty useless because, of course they are likely to bite back. ( i am not suggesting that all DI's do) Lack of impulse control is the reason why the kid is there. There is also a difference between penalising a kid for not contributing to some kind of team effort, and Bullying a kid into some kind of pissing contest because their sense of manhood is threatened and then punsihing every kid when that one kid looses it . It also strikes me as being the worst kid of cowardice to pick a fight with a kid when it is quite clear that they have no power. From where i sit this is completely unjust and teaches kids that the biggest bully wins.  This can hardly socialise any one. It is not even a lesson in mental toughness.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: AtomicAnt on June 11, 2006, 09:28:00 AM
I wanted to elaborate on my previous post. I can't find it now, but I once came across a website for a teen boot camp that described the following situation. I will have to paraphrase as best I can:
 
"Imagine a group of boys sleeping soundly in their barracks when a DI comes in, snaps on the light and calls them to attention. They all snap to. The DI then picks one bunk at random and tosses the bedding, mattress and all out the window. He then gives an order that the barracks is a disgrace and the teens have 10 ten minutes to have it ready for inspection.

Knowing that the poor lad whose bedding is now outside in the dirt will never make it, and knowing the whole group will punished for it. The boys must pull themselves together and work as a team. Leaders will emerge delegating tasks and giving orders and others will take those instructions in order to achieve the ends the team needs."

Now, as an adult, or in my case even in my middle to late teens, I would already 'know the game' in a sense. I wouldn't like the situation, but I would know what is required and why they were doing this. I would do my best to become one of the leaders, because that is the way I was raised and I want to be successful and good at what I do.

But I think this kind of team building is lost on a troubled teen and they would only see the whole exercise as being an act of random cruelty. They would do it only because they had to. They would remember it in a completely negative way and it would only piss them off.

The DIs would look on the success of the task as being the same as having these troubled teens 'getting it.' They would see this as a team building exercise and be completely unaware of the stuffed anger that would remain stuffed to avoid punishment. Then, God help us when the teen gradutes and you have a physically fit and very pissed off young male re-entering the larger world.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: youthadvocate on June 23, 2006, 09:17:00 PM
As always, great discussion guys.  Haven't been here for a while; so I don't know where to start.  Um, first off, and this is very important, I was in the Army not the Marines. hehe.  Okay, now that that's out of the way, intimidation and fear do not work as far as causing internalization of values.  I have never thought intimidation or fear were good practices for working with youth.  I will say that sadly some staff, not just in boot camps but the aforementioned counselors as well, do attempt to use this method.  I prefer to have true and mutual respect.  As a DI, if you've got that, then you are safe no matter what.  If you don't, then you're vulnerable to be attacked at any opportunity the residents may find.  And i wouldn't blame them.  As far as team building or any other type of thing working, I find it is vital to treat the youth as intelligent, thinking, people, which they are.  You may not do it initially, but you should put everything into context.  For instance, in a case where everyone is doing push-ups you might say something like, Trooper Smith's rack looked like crap.  So why is the whole platoon doing push-ups right now?  How can we apply this to someone acting a fool in the community?  As far as, i believe antagonizing was the word used, I can only assume this refers to a DI responding to explosive behavior on the part of a kid with explosive behavior of his own (and no this does not necessarily mean a physical altercation or hands being placed on anyone at all).  From a cognitive, social-learning standpoint, most people who display explosive behavior, do so because they have learned to utilize it as a defense mechanism.  If I explode, then people will leave me alone.  If an explosion is met with an explosion, the youth learns that in this case, explosive behavior will not mean being left alone, and so the youth will have to face whatever the issue is.  So, over the course of his time there, the youth gets experience actually processing issues and coming up with appropriate coping skills rather than running away from the problem. Now is three months in boot camp long enough to change a learned behavior, which has been utilized for 15 years or so?  No.  But that's why I place so much emphasis on after-care and in-community support no matter what type of placement the youth is being discharged from.  For real, for real, if there were greater emphasis on in-community supports in the first place, there would be less kids getting sent to placement, and that should be the goal.  I appologize if this was incoherent at points.  Unfortunately, this site won't let me break this up into paragraphs.
Title: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2006, 03:31:42 AM
You say, "If an explosion is met with an explosion, the youth learns that in this case, explosive behavior will not mean being left alone, and so the youth will have to face whatever the issue is. "

But that's a shaky and dangerous conclusion. You can't model the very behavior you're trying to help the kid change. What you may end up teaching is that the person with the most power and the most explosive behavior wins. What you want to teach is the alternative behaviors for getting what you want: respect, responsibility, negotiation, listening, compromise, creativity, assertiveness. Those are the behaviors you need to model.
Title: Re: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2008, 01:28:14 PM
I was able to find the cause of death of most of the people on that list posted earlier in the thread.

Michelle Sutton, dead at age 15, Summit Quest
Died of Dehydration on a desert hike. “Counselors” ignored complaints.
Kristen Chase, dead at age 16, Challenger
Died of heatstroke after long hike.
Paul Choy, dead at age 16, Rite of Passage
Was forced to sit on platform for 5 hours in cold. Died later at hospital. Doctors observed evidence of anal rape.
Aaron Bacon, dead at age 16, Northstar
Was beaten and tortured, deprived of food and water. Died from perforated ulcer.
Dawnne Takeuchi, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Died after being thrown off a truck driven by VQ staff. Counselor ordered to pay $270.
Lorenzo Johnson, dead at age 17, Arizona Boys Ranch
Drowned in an irrigation ditch while trying to escape.
Carlos Ruiz, dead at age 13, VisionQuest
Fell 80 feet to his death.
Mario Cano, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
Was not treated for a fatal blood clot.
John Vincent Garrison, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Boating/Drowning
Bernard Reefer, dead, VisionQuest
Boating/Drowning
Robert Zimmerman, dead, VisionQuest
Boating/Drowning
Charles Lucas, dead, VisionQuest
Boating/Drowning
James Lamb, dead, VisionQuest
Boating/Drowning
Tammy Edmiston, dead, VisionQuest
Fell From Bridge
Leon Anger, dead, VisionQuest
Drowned while attempting to escape.
Latasha Bush, dead at 15, Daystar Residential Treatment Center
Died of asphyxia after being mechanically restrained.
Charles Collins, Jr., dead at age 15, Crossroads for Youth
Died after period of forced exercise
Jamie Young, dead at age 13, Ramsey Canyon
Heatstroke from forced hike.
Randy Steele, dead at age 9, Laurel Ridge Psychiatric Hospital
Was restrained, vomited, and stopped breathing.
John Avila, dead, Rocky Mountain Academy
Hung himself from a pipe using a belt.
Danny Lewis, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
Drowning
Nicholas Contreras, dead at age 16, Arizona Boys Ranch
Forced exercise and untreated infections. Died from collapsed lung.  2.5 quarts of pus in chest at time of death.
Edith Campos, dead at age 15, Desert Hills
Broke a vertebrae while being restrained, went untreated. A month later, died from asphyxia while being restrained. Skin was visibly blue.
Matt Toppi, dead at age 17, Robert Land Academy
Hit by train attempting to escape.
Chris Brown, dead at age 16, Robert Land Academy
Hit by train attempting to escape.
Eric David Schibley, dead at age 17, VisionQuest
Drowned.
Robert Doyle Erwin, dead at age 15, VisionQuest
Drowned.
Lyle Foodroy, dead, VisionQuest
Drowned, boat capsized in storm.
Gina Score, dead at age 14, State Training School (South Dakota)Died attempting 2.6 mile run. Hyperventilated, urinated on herself, eyes rolled back into head. Staff reportedly were laughing and made jokes. Ambulance was called 3 hours later, died of hyperthermia with body temperature of 108°.
Bryan Dale Alexander, dead at age 18, Texas Correctional Services                                                                
Died from Pneumonia
Michael Wiltsie, dead at age 12, Eckert Youth Alternatives
Asphyxia while being restrained by 300 pound counselor. Michael weighed about 66 pounds. Mother later killed her other son and herself in murder-suicide.
Tristan Sovern, dead at age 16, Charter Behavioral Health System
Died of asphyxia while being restrained. Towel was put in mouth and bedsheet over his head.
Robert Rollins, dead at age 12, Devereaux School
Asphyxia after being restrained. Restrained for argument over teddy bear
Andrew McClain, dead at age 11, Elmcrest Psychiatric Hospital
Died of asphyxiation and chest compression after being restrained.
Anthony Haynes, dead at age 14, American Buffalo Soldiers Boot Camp
Forced to wear black sweatpants & sweatshirt in 111° heat, resorted to eating dirt. Died of dehydration.
Charles "Chase" Moody, dead at age 17, The Brown School (CEDU affiliated)
Died from asphyxia while being restrained. Had vomit in throat.
Roberto Reyes, dead at age 15, Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp
Died from complications from a spider bite. Staff ignored Roberto falling down frequently, complaining of muscle soreness, vomiting and involuntarily urinating and defecating on himself. Had over 30 cuts and bruises at time of death.
Travis Parker, dead at age13, Appalachian Wilderness Camp
Died of asphyxia after being restrained for over 90 minutes. Was denied food and asthma medication.
Christening "Mikie" Garcia, dead at age 12, Star Ranch
Suffocated while being restrained.
Linda Harris, dead at age 14, Chad Youth Enhancement Center
Asphyxiation from restraint.
Martin Lee Anderson, dead at age 14, Bay County Sheriff's boot camp, Florida
Was punched and kneed. Died while mouth was covered and ammonia capsules were shoved up Martin’s nose.
Title: Re: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: Anonymous on August 07, 2009, 03:01:30 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Michelle Sutton, dead at age 15, Summit Quest
Kristen Chase, dead at age 16, Challenger
Paul Choy, dead at age 16, Rite of Passage
Aaron Bacon, dead at age 16, Northstar
Dawnne Takeuchi, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Lorenzo Johnson, dead at age 17, Arizona Boys Ranch
Carlos Ruiz, dead at age 13, VisionQuest
Mario Cano, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
John Vincent Garrison, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Bernard Reefer, dead, VisionQuest
Robert Zimmerman, dead, VisionQuest
Charles Lucas, dead, VisionQuest
James Lamb, dead, VisionQuest
Tammy Edmiston, dead, VisionQuest
Leon Anger, dead, VisionQuest
Latasha Bush, dead at 15, Daystar Residential Treatment Center
Charles Collins, Jr., dead at age 15, Crossroads for Youth
Jamie Young, dead at age 13, Ramsey Canyon
Randy Steele, dead at age 9,
Laurel Ridge Psychiatric Hospital
John Avila, dead, Rocky Mountain Academy
Danny Lewis, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
Nicholas Contreras, dead at age 16, Arizona Boys Ranch
Edith Campos, dead at age 15, Desert Hills
Matt Toppi, dead at age 17, Robert Land Academy
Chirs Brown, dead at age 16, Robert Land Academy
Eric David Schibley, dead at age 17, VisionQuest
Robert Doyle Erwin, dead at age 15, VisionQuest
Lyle Foodroy, dead, VisionQuest
Gina Score, dead at age 14, State Training School (South Dakota)
Bryan Dale Alexander, dead at age 18, Texas Correctional Services
Michael Wiltsie, dead at age 12, Eckert Youth Alternatives
Tristan Sovern, dead at age 16, Charter Behavioral Health System
Robert Rollins, dead at age 12, Devereaux School
Andrew McClain, dead at age 11, Elmcrest Psychiatric Hospital
Anthony Haynes, dead at age 14, Buffalo Soldiers Boot Camp
Ian August, dead at age 14, Skyline Journey
Charles "Chase" Moody, dead at age 17, The Brown School
Roberto Reyes, dead at age 15, Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp
Travis Parker, dead at age13, Appalachian Wilderness Camp
Christening "Mikie" Garcia, dead at age12, Star Ranch
Linda Harris, dead at age 14, Chad Youth Enhancement Center
Martin Lee Anderson, dead at age 14, Bay County Sheriff's boot camp, Florida

From:                                                                                         This is very sad, to see the names of children that suffered.
http://moral-highground.blogspot.com/ (http://moral-highground.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: VisionQuest Deaths
Post by: hawaiib34 on October 18, 2010, 12:22:46 AM
Wow! I was a youth in the west coast program for a year and 6 months around 1986. I had been on my own since 14 because life on the street was safer than home, I was arrested 7 times before I hit 16, placed in a group home and made a ward of the court. Went to VQ shortly after. And I loved it! It changed my life! I did see a couple of staff get a little rough but nothing major, I heard a kid died a couple years ahead of me from a heart problem. I know I had to go thru an extensive physical before they would release me to the program. I am not saying all the kids that died were from Physiological unforeseeable's, but I would guess that would be the bulk of them. VQ was tough! Physically and mentally. All the staff I knew were good people with good intentions.

Since leaving VQ I have gone to college, started my own business and am raising two beautiful, smart, well rounded children. Not tosay all the grass has been green, but without VQ I would not have achieved any of this.

Mike