Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Mission Mountain School => Topic started by: Anonymous on July 22, 2006, 02:04:51 PM
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'm curious, how many of you all felt MMS had adverse effects on your concept of sexuality, sex, etc. (as if society doesn't do this enough!)?
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We were not allowed to have feelings towards any boys. If a relationship developed from a home visit we were in the biggest trouble of all the trouble at that school. Also, we were not allowed to socialize outside MMS. Even when going to town we were not allowed to get out of the van. I guess for me, I had a fear of being caught with a male, and that left me with some sense that it was wrong to be with a male at all. Obviously promescuity follows close behind that sort of mentality. It was awful, we were deprogrammed and someone reprogrammed us horribly, if at all. We are totally equipt to take what you are saying and figure out what you want to hear before the end of your sentence. It comes natural. The thought of not doing so leaves you with a creepy fear. I got good at group, and it was not something I did on purpose either. I really felt proud of myself in group because I was learning to co-exist well. Now, the things we said in group sounded good, but not because we were doing enough helpful therapy that it is something that just 'evolved'. It was because we were broken down, exercised to the point of physical exhaustion, and emotionally stripped... and then comes in regression therapy conducted by a forestry major. Yeah, I would call that mind fuck
SM
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what was regressive therapy?
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It is regression therapy. Do you remember the case of the young boy that was seeking psychiatric help for minor issues and came out with implanted memories of sexual abuse? It was John Mercer's form of regression therapy. He would relax us, talk us into a hypnotic state, and then walk us through events. The problem is that we would chronically 'make up' events so that we would not be without topic in group. See, if we did not say anything of significance in group then we were picked on, given work crew, and publically humiliated for however long John decided to make us the group focal point. The girls back that too, I know I did. It was nice to have the focus on someone else for a change. So, that leaves us in an environment where nobody could trust the next person because we would HAVE to turn on each other to save ourselves. Regression therapy was something he did to ' take us back'. Oddly enough every person who took part in that process came out with traumatic memories. Whether the memories were real or fake, the mind and body functioned as though they were real, leaving us with PTSD. Coupled with the lack of trust and the 'fight or flight' environment we were forced into a sort of stockholmes syndrome.
With that we identified with one or more staff member to make our feelings of victimization by the other seem more bareable. Make sense yet? The regression therapy, for some, caused far more pain that good in an environment where we were left with no other option than to make up stories to talk about. Then these stories were kind of embedded in our memories. They were not real but left us with the scars of a real memory and it causes even a greater problem of not knowing what is real or fake. We question reality on a variet of levels, with people, their motivations, life etc.
Similar to vietnam vets, nightmares, night sweats, lack of trust, alcoholism and drug abuse, bouts of anger, anxiety, isolation etc.. that is the PTSD.
Stockholms Syndrome is far more complex. You can read about it online.
MDD is another thing that happens with massive abandonment issues. Major Depressive Disorder.
Sadly, there have been far too many suicides that happened after MMS. Out of my class of 12 there have been 2 or 3, I believe over half have tried.
Another reason for the extreme depression is that some of us, such as myself, suffered from mental illness that was diagnosed prior to the school and we were not given medication at the school. Combined coercive therapy, regression therapy, and un treated mental illness made the school an experience that was like a torture chamber. I had to smile at my parents and tell them it was great, after a while I believed it was. I wasnt taking pride in the things I was doing at the school, but desperately seeking approval in order to have some sort of break from being picked on. So, I learned to 'sell' myself and the school to everyone I came in contact with. It was horrible.
Does anyone remember the days that the educational consultants would come? They would 'tell' us not to act any different but we would just wait for the group to put on a show. I dont know what that was about. Maybe it was the lack of social contact and it was just wonderful to actually see an outside person or maybe it was the eye nod and look of approval from John. Who knows. It was weird
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Personally I don't remember any regressive therapy. I do remember meditation and having to find out inner animal, or something....
Youpa group really really weirded me out, not into movement and stuff.
As for the meds, well the girls who were on meds before MMS were seen by the school therapist. Than they were given the proper meds, as I remember almost everyone was on meds, there were very few who weren't.
Please, In not saying MMS was perfect or right, yet what would you be doing with your life right now? Even though it may have changed you for the best or worst,....you all not have a meaning and purpose in life and you very very very clear on. Would you have been.....please, and you will all hate me saying this, move on. keep on one track to better the schools now. Why dig over and over in the past...???
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I'm fully in agreement with one of the last sentences of the troll's post, only replace "better the schools" with "incinerate the schools"...
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Why dig over and over in the past...???
to help those in the future, obviously. closure...uh, i don't know, why does anyone reflect on the past? sorry b, dumb question for a dumb q.
Personally I don't remember any regressive therapy.
Yea, the stopped that early on- totally messed me up though. WTF was John thinking, trying to unearth memories, making some girsl dissacotiate, etc. That was HORRIBLE! HORRIBLY unethical. We were his toys, that was all, far as I can tell... he played therapist and we played patient. did i mention, it was HORRIBLE.
Seriously, i know now that the induced stuff wasn't real, although sometimes I wonder... I don't know- remember all that bs about body memories and all of a sudden EVERYBODY was having body memories of abuse past. what a joke...on us...
What I will say is they made sex into a very weird thing, none of it was dealt with in any manner beyond like AA 101, which as we all know is a 'self help' group, not therapy! So EVERYTHING being about running from emotions, using X as an escape just made not sex weird, but EVERYTHING! I still think, oh, am I using this or that... but no sense of what healthy is...putting everything into that over-simplified equation makes life appear perpetually off... i mean, honestly- I get it, you can use things to escape life but these things are also PART OF life... that contradiction just re-enforced their powerplays...they got to determine what was healthy, when something was good (health) bad (an escape)...but they needed to keep us there for 2years, so of course there's going to be all this stuff being pointed out as if it somehow is logical and makes sense.
It's a joke- locked up for near 2 years... to what end? I don't think any one of us needed the kind of structure that would justify being locked up that long.
I work with mentally ill homeless adults... and there is not a single on who I would suggest be locked up- none are violent, none are hurting themselves. sure, sometimes kids need a safe place- great, lets make sure they have it and it's consensual (unless they are a threat to themselves or others- then no consent should be required.) Living w/in the community with dignity and support makes a world of difference. And I'm talking about people who have been homeless anywhere from a few years to 20 years- and I've seen them get their lives together.
We didn't have anywhere near that kind of history. Again, I just can't get over how big of a joke MMS is/was and how much of it was about lining their pockets and making us perpetually crazy/confused unecessarily.
surely if folks who are actively psychotic, like those who I work with, or have some other time of mental illness and are chemically dependent who have been homeless for years can improve with community based support, most kids can.
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keep on one track to better the schools now.
Oh, and that's b/c community based care, ie Systems of Care work better that Residential treatment. :o
RT doesn't really work that well. I don't think there's much most of is can do to IMPROVE RT's as none of us could even begin to tell you what that woudl look like.... but one way that can be done is to point out what was inapporpriate about our experiences, what we know.. hence, our post. :D
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Personally I don't remember any regressive therapy.
You dont remember John having people relax in group while he talked them back in their minds and walked them through traumatic events? I would encourage you to ask Addie about those times. She experienced the most exposure to that stuff.
I do remember meditation and having to find out inner animal, or something....
Youpa group really really weirded me out, not into movement and stuff.
As for the meds, well the girls who were on meds before MMS were seen by the school therapist. Than they were given the proper meds, as I remember almost everyone was on meds, there were very few who weren't.
I remember a couple of people on anti depressants. Not anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers, or anything for actual mental illness. Just depression. I also remember ADD meds taken away from Tara Paulin.
Personally, I only saw a Dr once in two years for a 15 minute check up. That is hardly sufficient.
I know you say to move on. I can move on with my own life, but what exactly is your problem with making sure it does not happen to another person?
That is like a rape victim moving on and having people tell her to not share her story. If you want people to move on, why don't you go first!
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i only recall one person, Melissa S being on.. Lithium? everyone else was taken off meds, far as I can recall.. Oh, Katie H on wellbutrin.
Also, was that really Tara's last name? From Calagary?
thx
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Tara Paulin... I talked to her about five years ago. The entire time the school was hard on her for her facial movements, mannerisms, and inability to speak clearly and this was due to half of her brain not functioning. It was entirely unfair for a medical problem that has psychological outcome to be treated as an intentional act. Kind of like punishing someone with epilepsy for having a siezure. This is just another example of WHY a relevant college education is so important when dealing with the fragile psyche of young women in their developmental years
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I was on several different meds while at mms. They tried anti anxiety, anti depression, everything like that. I remember other girls being on wellbutrin or prozac. We went to missoula to a dr there, but I only remember going twice. I DO remember girls having birth control prescribed to them, which I thought was weird in an all girls school. I was told it was to regulate their cycles. (After MMS I was so thin I didn't menstrate for about 3 months.)
On the other topic of sex, I was still promiscous after leaving all of the programs I went to. I think now I have issues around my sexuality, but I don't think I blame it on John's therapy techniques. I didn't have an extensive sexual history before mms, but I was told to write one. When I did, I was told it was too short and I wasn't being honest. So I wrote that I had slept with a lot of men, which wasn't true at the time. I guess I think that all women at one point in their lives have sexual issues and abuse. John's therapy doesn't strike me as ethical or valid, but I don't blame mms for issues around my own sexuality.
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"I know you say to move on. I can move on with my own life, but what exactly is your problem with making sure it does not happen to another person?
That is like a rape victim moving on and having people tell her to not share her story. If you want people to move on, why don't you go first!"
I have no problem with you all trying not to let another person go through the hell you all beleive you went through. I even said that.........The reason I don't 'move on' is the same reason you all don't. I feel a fire to defend a place I beleive helped shape me into the person I am today. It worked for me, and maybe not for you so please no comments, it is what it is....none of us can change that.
Treat lightly guest.....I was raped one year to the summer after MMS. I do know what it feels like...please remember, you never know what people are going through so always tread lightly.
I was there way after Addie Harris, so no I don't remember.
And to milk gargling death penal, find another forum...this ones all girls, obviously not for you.
Kat, I do agree with you when it comes to feeling guilty for things one did after MMS. I thought I would turn into a odd looking creature if I had sex, or drank. I remember feeling bad and akward doing these things. Also it weirded me out cause my rape was the first time, so anything after was weird, but also because of all the stories I heard from you girls, thats was terrified me the most......
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You dare say, "the hell you BELIEVE you went through...."
And you wonder why everyone gets pissed off every time you post? No one "believes they went through hell at MMS" they well KNOW they did, missy.
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Do you remember when they were breaking us and they would say," I believe you believe that." ? That saying would basically tell us that our thoughts were some false sense of reality and that their way of thinking was just so loving and caring that they "Believe we believe that". It caused a sense of humiliation, like we were wrong or crazy and that they were right. I guess given the right situation, tone of voice it would have been a perfect tool for a counselor to not pass judgement on a schizophrenic that was dellusional. That was not what they did. It was said in a way to shame someone, a way that was just filled with sarcasm.
After we were there for a while they would just start telling us that we " were in our shit" and if we didnt stop it meant work crew or some exhausting physical task, or worse, being the focal point of group. I dreaded that, then people would 'ring the bell'. ughh
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whats funnier to me than kat being this crazy super advocate and having bringing some ACCOUNTABILITY to MMS, ya'll remmeber them holding us 'accoutable??? HER HAVING been at mms especially since john 'the sadist meglomaniac' mercer is on the NATSAP board and is respected , -MAYBE -even though we all know the truth and that our truth is finally being TOLD and challenging mms and his meaningless ecology degree. BUT, the funnier thing to me is that Besty is their lone supporter and argues in circles. i dont know which one MMS SHOULD BE dreading more!!! Too bad they havent interviewed Betsy for news stories because taht would be THE BEST! The would probably get MMS shut down quiker than Katfish!
I have never been more entertaine, hehe. at every turn besty agrees that John and others used untherapeutic practices and is unable to isolate the unthical with the beneficial or point out the obvious reason she thinks it was ok for HER TO BE MISTREATED AND FOR OTHERS TO BE ABUSED, her home life was a nightmare and anywhere would have been better. her parents are negelctful and abusive so .. none of these things means John mercer should be invovled with kids and that MMS with him invovled should still stand. AND, if Besty you think its ok for you to get a SHAM and have it be called THERAPY and be ABUSED then you should say that, but dont you DARE EVER say this is ok for others. EVER! what happened at MMS was NOT OK AND IT WILL NEVER BE OK, so to reconcile this maybe we should just say, BESTY you feel its ok to be used as a punching bag because your damaged goods and some of us made it out and somehow had learned to love ourselves again and trust our own minds again to admit that John Mercer, MMS pretended to love us and be our savior but really it was a sick twisted mind game the ENTIRE TIME!
plus i dont think anyone thinks kids should not have teh right to have a safe, tehrapeutic place to go but the place has to actually be a safe and therapetic fukin place!!! MMS is neither, so as much as betsy you want to say MMs helped you you're kinda missin everyones point!
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Guest please chill out everyone is ENTITLED to an opinion. It is your respose is immature. To attack someone just because they believe something that you don't, even though they understand and have empathy for the way you feel, AND on top of that she is strong enough to say it and keep saying it.
No need to go on the attack, we will all still read what you write even if you calm down. :o
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She has a need to voice her outrage. However, both of you need a time out for grammar and spelling violations! I guess it is just another example of Mission Mountain?s superior education.
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"accoutable, Besty, entertaine, untherapeutic, unthical, invovled, teh, tehrapeutic, therapetic fukin"
Guest, you might want to look over your own work rather than criticize others. And please, lean how to spell my name. Its really not that hard.
"then you should say that, but dont you DARE EVER say this is ok for others. EVER! what happened at MMS was NOT OK AND IT WILL NEVER BE OK, so to reconcile this maybe we should just say, BESTY you feel its ok to be used as a punching bag because your damaged goods and some of us made it out and somehow had learned to love ourselves again and trust our own minds again to admit that John Mercer, MMS pretended to love us and be our savior but really it was a sick twisted mind game the ENTIRE TIME! "
Did I say it was Okay for other to be treated badly? No. Im simply fighting my side and youre fighting yours. I don't beleive I was abused or had it that bad. I am saying I, as in, me, and with that I also see and understand where you are coming from and how you can inturpert what happned as abuse.
Damaged goods? Do I see someone elses issues being projected onto me? Speak for yourself.
Please don't pretend to know me, or imagine you know how I feel about myself. Are you sure you love yourself? Anger, which you have alot of doesn't show one loving themself. Loving oneself is for each there own. Its like an opinion. We all have them, didn't ways, different views, and different ways to go about expressing them.
Thanks Kerry for the comment. I appreciate it. You are the first person who actually sees what Ive been talking about and asking people to do for awhile. To try and understand where Im coming from and understand I see what they are saying and to an extent agree but not fully.
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Guest please chill out everyone is ENTITLED to an opinion. It is your respose is immature. To attack someone just because they believe something that you don't, even though they understand and have empathy for the way you feel, AND on top of that she is strong enough to say it and keep saying it.
No need to go on the attack, we will all still read what you write even if you calm down. :o
K, were you there when Besty was an intern? I think you might understand the anger if you did :flame: but I agree that there are better ways to talk about this and 'opinions'.
is abuse or mistreatment or maltreatment , whatever, a subjective issue? :o
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Sounds like Betsy might have exposed some of these MMS girls to her own brand of "intern abuse." If this is true, that is really too bad, for both the girls who may have suffered, and for Betsy, herself.
This type of thing happens in lots of programs.
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I have a question for barnalby b. You admit that this school that you were sent to was not all beer and skittles and that when you got out you often felt a sense of guilt. You also admit that you felt scared of sex because of the horror stories the other girls were made to tell you. At the same time you feel compelled to defend it because it made you the person you are today. i assume by that you mean that it shaped your good qualities.
But how do you know that you would not be the person you are today anyway? I think it is commendable that you want to move on with your life and are doing all you can to do so. it is also good to turn something negative into a positive. But why do you have the idea that it takes adverse experiences to bring out your best? Why don't you think that this was always in you?
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Guest please chill out everyone is ENTITLED to an opinion. It is your respose is immature. To attack someone just because they believe something that you don't, even though they understand and have empathy for the way you feel, AND on top of that she is strong enough to say it and keep saying it.
No need to go on the attack, we will all still read what you write even if you calm down. :o
K, were you there when Besty was an intern? I think you might understand the anger if you did :flame: but I agree that there are better ways to talk about this and 'opinions'.
is abuse or mistreatment or maltreatment , whatever, a subjective issue? :o
HAHAHA, Actually Kerry was there when I was a student,......just imagine that...
Please explain what I did to you that bad?!, mean or abusive?
I recall alot of sitting around and watching, and giving alittle bit of feedback. Since graduating from MMS I have been complimented many many times on how nice I am, maybe you triggerd an anger reaction, something that I don't remember....
I have had many comments that when i have a straight face I look angry, but more than not, im not angry.
Soooo, not sure where you going there......yet I am very very sorry if i hurt your feelings and was mean to you in any way.
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I have a question for barnalby b. You admit that this school that you were sent to was not all beer and skittles and that when you got out you often felt a sense of guilt. You also admit that you felt scared of sex because of the horror stories the other girls were made to tell you. At the same time you feel compelled to defend it because it made you the person you are today. i assume by that you mean that it shaped your good qualities.
But how do you know that you would not be the person you are today anyway? I think it is commendable that you want to move on with your life and are doing all you can to do so. it is also good to turn something negative into a positive. But why do you have the idea that it takes adverse experiences to bring out your best? Why don't you think that this was always in you?
You ask a very good question and its something I do want to think about.
I do know that mms brought me here, grounded me and woke me up to the people around me. I never thought of anyone else except myself. I was more than humbled and learned the value of hard work. There are tools I learned that help me in my day to day. For example if I don't exercise for awhile, 4 days, I am soo awful. Now sure any other person could realize this but I don't know where or when in my life other than mms I would have learned this.
Maybe the reason I think the only way to be my best is to go through heart ache, becase its all i know. I know thats a common thought through out my posts but its true. I know no other way. maybe everyone was a taught a different way, and understood that, then when to mms and knew it was wrong but its the only way I was taught and the only way I know how to be. Slowly and surely my life is settling down and I know that conflict and stress is not all there is to life and I now know, thanks to kat, that this is an issue. I had no idea.
I know i have now rambled and I will think about your question not only to give you the answer but to figure it out for myself. thanks...
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you mention that you were self centred before MMS. i am guessing you were what about 14 when you went? That seems to me an age when most people are.
What puzzles me when I read your posts is that you seem to have an idea that you needed bad things to happen to you to make you a better person. How do you not know that you deserved good things? That the adults in your life could not have taught you these values in a healthy way? That there was no need to make you feel that sex is frightening and bad or that without hard labor you would not develop a work ethic?
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Please explain what I did to you that bad?!, mean or abusive?
http://wwf.avigation.net/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=15 (http://wwf.avigation.net/viewtopic.php?t=10617&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)
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not against me and i am very glad that you are nice now and i believe you. but the fact that betsy u know. you know:exclaim::exclaim::exclaim: John was a jerk:exclaim: just because hes better that your paretns or family doesnt make it right. we deserved better :exclaim: you deserved better :exclaim:
we were NOT treated by someone who KNEW what he was doing :exclaim: its fraud:exclaim: and i get it though you learned to be in touch with your body and excersize but we didnt go there for that. that was a side note. they used these things and pretneded it was therapy and like John knew what he was doing.
we were exploited. mistreated. treated with fake therapy by fake therapist. moved by mostly fear and guilt not learning or understanding. they used out bodies to benefit the school- not us. (chores is one thing but we did much more than that)
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Sometimes when people have zero idea of who they are coupled with zero self esteem the only way they can feel anything consistant with the way they feel about themselves is to have someone treat them like shit.
Does it strike anyone as odd that John Mercer was sexually abused as a child and went on to work with children and take out some anger on them? Do you think that maybe his aggression towards us had something to do with him not getting help as a child, so, he is going to try and take it out on us because we were getting help? I mean, if you look at it, everyone in his favorite group was taken through his form of therapy to bring up memories and all ended up being molested by family members(some really were). Do you think that he was trying to deal with his own issues through us, and take out his anger ON us.
I remember thinking about this at the school. An angry, un-treated sexual abuse victim, in charge of a large group of teen age girls, who was unusually controlling and displayed large amounts of consistant need for emotional strain on the girls? The intense sexual histories, lack of social contact, need to talk about sexually explicit things, need to exert a show of dominion and control over the teenage girls ( victim/helpless, victimizer/in control). Sound familiar?
Sounds sick to me. What is even more sickening is the bill they passed in MT to 'regulate' the schools. Guess what? The committee is run by the heads of the schools. What a joke. Who is going to protect the girls.
IF the girls were sent there mentally ill, abused, or neglected who the hell says it is within the scope of ethical standards to abuse them further just to crack them. People build a wall to protect themselves, if you break the wall down and fail to build it up you just have an exposed and really screwed up person. It takes YEARS to get over that, years.
I still have nightmares. I still worry. I constantly am talking in circles just to make sure I am saying the right thing at the right time, I have a problem with performance anxiety and social skills. Minus the social skills, I didnt have problems with the other things. I never worried that everyone in a group was going to bombard me with a scathing review of my daily actions and make me over analyze everything to the point of being mad. I never did that before... but I learned to not only aquire that skill but master the art of hiding the anxiety of having to over analyze everything.
The school sucked for me. Period.
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"Does it strike anyone as odd that John Mercer was sexually abused as a child "
Personally once again, I had no idea about this....really? Sooo, my own personal opinion having been through a sexual trama, wouldn't the last thing anyone who was sexually abused want to talk about is sex and other peoples experience? Im not denying that he was becuase I don't know if he was or wasn't. Its not adding up for me why he would want to talk about it....or have others talk about it.
"Sometimes when people have zero idea of who they are coupled with zero self esteem the only way they can feel anything consistant with the way they feel about themselves is to have someone treat them like shit."
Im gonna pretend that wasn't towards me, once again, don't pretend to know me or have any idea how I feel or think. I've had my life together for quite sometime now and I have know my purpose and have known what I want to do with the rest of my life for the past 6-7 years.....Last time I checked thats since highschool. Not many people can say that.
"I still have nightmares. I still worry. I constantly am talking in circles just to make sure I am saying the right thing at the right time, I have a problem with performance anxiety and social skills. Minus the social skills, I didnt have problems with the other things. I never worried that everyone in a group was going to bombard me with a scathing review of my daily actions and make me over analyze everything to the point of being mad. I never did that before... but I learned to not only aquire that skill but master the art of hiding the anxiety of having to over analyze everything."
I'm curious and would have to guess that you weren't a scapegoat at mms. There are many many girls and some who I keep in contact with, who don't have nightmares, who don't have the symptoms that you talk about. All that says to me is that mms is for some, not everyone. I do find it interested that all the girls during the 94-96 period who were not scapegoats and were the 'leaders' of the group, had the hardest time after mms, ie;relapse, trouble socially, even more family conflict, cut off contact with girls they promised to be friends with forever.
Yet those of us who were the scapegoats and dubbed to 'fall flat on our face' have done darn well for ourselves and have continued to have contact with girls, have had no relapse, make friends easily, and don't have any of the syptoms you talk about guest.
Im not trying to discredit you feelings and I feel badly for what you have gone through, and are still going through. I just find it curious.
Im not the only girl out there with these feelings, im just bold enough, as I always have been and always will be, to actually say something. Most girls don't want to have much to do with this forum beucase they don't feel anyone will listen and they will just be attacked as I have been many times.
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you mention that you were self centred before MMS. i am guessing you were what about 14 when you went? That seems to me an age when most people are.
What puzzles me when I read your posts is that you seem to have an idea that you needed bad things to happen to you to make you a better person. How do you not know that you deserved good things? That the adults in your life could not have taught you these values in a healthy way? That there was no need to make you feel that sex is frightening and bad or that without hard labor you would not develop a work ethic?
Actually I had just turned 13 two months before, so I was young.
I do understand what your saying and I thank you for you concern and compassion, yet I honestly don't think that the adults in my life would have been able to show me anything. I have had to cut off contact with my parents many times simply to have some quite time for myself. Sure there could have been other ways to learn a work ethic yet im not sure where that would have happened or how.
and no sex isn't bad, but I had the tools to know how to deal iwht my rape thanks to my experience at mms.
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If your home life was deeply troubled then i am not sure where or how you could have recieved proper guidance either. But as someone who is trying to get my head around why such an industry flourishes, the question i always have at the front of my mind is why anyone thinks that a punitive approach is the best one? How did it work for you in a way that real counselling could not?
Even if a person survives and goes on to do pretty well, as you have done, how are such extreme measures against someone who is legally a minor and not always in criminal trouble justifiable morally or practically?
As far as I am aware mms (correct me if i am wrong) does not have similar LGAT therapy sessions for it's parents the way it does for kids. At least WWASPS for all of its henious abuses and faults asneds the parents off to its crazy seminars as well. How can mms defend putting kids through therapudic horrors that neither its parents or senior staff are put through?
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When did this forum become a place to analyze specifically Betsy??
We all went there. It was different for all of us. Having gone there when Betsy was a student, I can honestly say that from hearing where she came from, MMS was probably a better place for her. With the support that she needed.
Aside from Betsy, I myself did not have a good experience with mms. I thought that the staff were abusive and cruel. I had more bad with certain staff and good memories from others. Overall, my experience has made me who I am today. That is the one good thing about that time in my life.
I agree that this forum is a good place to vent. I think unfairly targeting someone just because of their opinion is childish. Kind of reminds me of MMS.
Though I have my own opinions about MMS, I would hope that since we have all been there, that should be something that links us, not divides us. We all had some type of trauma or difficult childhoods. Adolecence for us was not easy. All of our parents thought this was the best place for us. And now it is part of ALL of our pasts.
The best place to direct any residual anger would be towards the people who ran the school, not towards each other.
And for me and Betsy, this was over ten years ago. We have all grown up and on since then. Obviously it was a huge part of our lives, but let's accept it and talk about it and support each other people!!!
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To the Guest who asked "Is abuse a subjective issue?"
Yes I think it is.
If you are living in a hut, in a third world country, some of the things that make up your daily life would be considered unsanitary, unfit for people by American standards.
I can tell you that I grew up in a house with parents that loved me and used spanking as a form of punishment. I don't consider that abuse but some people would. My parents love me, support me and provided me with a base to gain some self esteem. I chose to ignore them and push them away.
Some people are in families that do not love and support. The people who are supposed to be the protectors and caregivers turn on them and treat them badly. I believe that it is possible to be abused later on and not even realize it because it is better than what you came from. Perhaps, like in the case of mms, what we would consider abusive, some consider helpful.
I do not think that the staff intentionally abused the students. But depending on where you came from, it could be interpreted differently.
And for the guest who doesn't like my spelling, I'm fucking lucky I graduated from college after MMS. I'm proud of my accomplishments. So spelling and grammer don't seem as important to me as being a strong, opinionated, EDUCATED woman. Thanks for the input though.
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Kerry,
I believe you meant grammar. I am glad you came out of that school stronger. Tina Turner came away from Ike with some strength once she recovered from the damage. That is one way to look at it.
Maybe I will go cruise the domestic violence courts and turn in my man for one who is going to ' make me strong'.
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To the Guest who asked "Is abuse a subjective issue?"
Yes I think it is.
Then you would be mostly innaccurate, thankfully we have certain criteria that objectively asses mistreatment. I think trauma is more subjective:
http://www.sidran.org/whatistrauma.html (http://www.sidran.org/whatistrauma.html)
Perhaps, like in the case of mms, what we would consider abusive, some consider helpful.
Again, thankfully this type of situation can be assesed and we can recognize that abuse, -even if a person calls it help, abuse remains in fact abuse. Just like battered wife syndrome- these women stay and will defend their abusive spouse relentlessly...but we know all about this and still recognize it as abuse, despite the victims denial of calling it as such.
I do not think that the staff intentionally abused the students.
Really? you think this while including John as staff...? not that intent really matters, I 'guess... but perhaps you're right. John may be far too narcasisstic to really address the fact that he is not qualified and ignorant
... and yet I highly doubt that he doesn't not know that what he's donig is nothing much beyond mistreated girls- I really doubt that he is oblivious to this- he feeds off power and rendered us powerless, so how could he possibly (being such a power hungry person) not know what it's like to be depleted of your power, not be conscious of this when he worked so hard to prevent the creation of an environment of empowerment?
Can't imagine how on earth this would ever be perceived by him as an environment that fostered growth.
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Kerry,
I believe you meant grammar. I am glad you came out of that school stronger. Tina Turner came away from Ike with some strength once she recovered from the damage. That is one way to look at it.
Maybe I will go cruise the domestic violence courts and turn in my man for one who is going to ' make me strong'.
Dear Anonymous Guest,
Thanks for the spelling correction.
I believe that the difference lies in the fact that we never CHOSE MMS.
I was sent there, against my will.
So now that the experience is over, and I cannot change it, I choose to look at it as part of my past. AND ACCEPT IT. Not accepting that how I was treated was right, but just accepting that it happened. I think I would be different if ANY of my past was changed, maybe for better, maybe for worse.
I was not out "cruising" the theraputic boarding schools to see where I could find someone to treat me badly. But since I was put into the situation, OBVIOUSLY MISTREATED, and now grown up, I can say with integrity that going through that hard time has been a continuing education into my adult years. Not that I asked for it.
I still think about MMS and cry. I still have so many painful memories. I'm sure lots of you out there do too. And I hope you know that by sharing my personal story and opinion, I am not attacking yours.
I try to be an empathetic person. I try not to nitpick but to understand where others are coming from. Even when I disagree.
I would appreciate that if you have a future comment for me, that you act respectfully and are no longer condescending. Thanks.
I'm making lemonade out of my lemons.
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"Maybe I will go cruise the domestic violence courts and turn in my man for one who is going to ' make me strong'."
I think it quite funny that some one who doesn't even identify themselves would write the above statement. Attacking past students of MMS is pointless to our mission...to increase awareness of the practices at MMS, to find resolutions and to make them better. In my own opinion, so long as Mercer runs the school it will be fucked up. But why the fuck would I attack Kerry and make some bullshit statement to further demean her. "Cruising the domestic violence courts"....Damn. That's just mean. Kerry has guts to come out and speak her mind. My hate towards MMS runs quite deep, but that does not mean that it's cool to attack someone who disagrees with me. I did leave that place with a ton of life-long friends...let's try to keep that in mind amongst all the shit flinging back and forth. In addition, if you want people to share their experiences and help out in "the cause" don't piss them off.
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Thanks for the support. And to make it clear, I think MMS was hell. I was badly treated like all of you and I hated the place.
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spent my first 1 1/2 years hating the school. Everything was controlled, there was no music, a strict food plan, hard work crews, and really odd rules. I never saw John and rarely saw Colleen. However, Since February 2006, the school has changed completely. We have now food plan, we make our own decisions regarding most things, we only have mandatory group 5 nights a week, and we go on trips almost every week. This is much different than the first 18 months I was there. Also, John comes every day of the weekend, and Colleen every day of the week. We are able to change things through proposals, John is trying to find a way to have music now, work crew is limited, and freetime is the most I have ever seen. I know that when some of you were there it was awful- my first 18 months sucked. But having graduated in August this year, and fully considering my stay, I would suggest that rather than bashing on MMS, try to do something productive with your anger. Closing down this school is not the right thing to do anymore, and anyone who tries to close it now will end up hurting more people than helping. Rather than being a rule-based community as we were before, the school has become highly focused on self-regulation and girls learning how to handle their lives without interventions or extreme consequences like before.
My heart truly goes out to all that had a horrible 2 years, but just as you most likely have changed since then, so has the school. Please think of this next time you post.
Much love to all, and I hope you find your peace again.
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I almost died because of the foolish and neglectful judgements of John. I in no way see that school as changed. Because of some of the descisions by some of the staff there, my life will physically never be the same. Mentally, I'm glad that I had the support I did by some and I have built a strong support network at home or I don't know where I would be.
Does any one wonder why the numbers there are slowly dwindling down?
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"Does it strike anyone as odd that John Mercer was sexually abused as a child and went on to work with children and take out some anger on them?"
If this is true, it doesn't strike me as odd, it scares me especially considering they have kids now. How do you know John was abused? Did he say so? I never heard him say so, but if he was it really dos scare me since he sure didn't seem mentally stable when I knew him.
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I swear some of those male staff were so flirtacious! Does anyone agree?
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There are currently 23 girls at MMS. This is up from the 16 we had when I graduated only 5 months ago. The school was dwindling, but it is now growing again.
Again, I encourage you to try to forgive and move on. Focusing on the problems at the school will not help you. I used to focus on being sexually abused, and then I realized that I didn't have to suffer from it my entire life. I decided this before I even went to MMS. I hope you can do the same. Don't forget what your experience was, but don't focus your life on the past.